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Thread: The disintegration of the American empire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Tbh though, this may be controversial, but I do believe that America NEEDS to crash and burn in order to make room for something better.
    USA's biggest problem is probably the fact that the founding fathers intended to prevent one corrupt person from possessing too much power when they setup our government system. This backfired, as now the government is filled with corruption and one person trying to implement changes that are much needed, can't actually implement them, because the people with their wallets being fed by the issues don't want to see that change implemented. There's a clog at the very heart of things. That is part of why I think capitalism is going to be the downfall of the USA at some point. The country is essentially choking on the consumption from its own greed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    OK, so a determined electorate can get a billionaire who's friends with his opposing candidate elected if he wins the Republican nomination. And it has to be the Republican nominee, because as Sanders' campaigns showed us all, Democrats just cheat whenever a candidate the leadership doesn't like gets too popular.

    If those conditions are met, people can disrupt the status quo by putting another faction of the bourgeoise in some degree of power. What astounding change! After all, Trump did...well, I'm not sure. Assassinated an Iranian, I suppose. Presided over the further decline over this country. Built some fences near Mexico. Real power to the people moment there.
    It's still a ray of hope. Remember, Hillary's campaign outspent Trump's, which means that money wasn't the only deciding factor. And the reason that Trump won, in large part, was his ability to mobilize populist sentiments.

    Besides, what's the alternative: staying home and doing nothing?


    TVs themselves are telling people to vote, and it's not like voting is difficult, especially if you mail in. As for Rupert Murdoch, liberal cable news is no better, and Democrats control probably 90% of MSM. Maybe there's a conspiracy to make Americans stupider, but both sides tell them to vote and spend obscene amounts of money trying to convince people how important it is.

    Are you saying that the GOP is the only authentic voice of democracy in this country, or are you telling me that this is what democracy in action looks like? Because that video is what happens to candidates who genuinely threaten the status quo.
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If you're asking to me pretend that the Democratic party is principled, then I won't. I'm not a Democrat, and neither liberal nor conservative elites appeal to me. Frankly, speaking as a non-American, both sides of the American culture war seem a little weird (and so would my country's culture wars seem to Americans, probably).
    Last edited by xerx; 11-23-2021 at 05:12 PM.

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    This place is a shithole getting shittier. I don't care about the fall of the American "empire", I just want intact bridges, a reliable electrical grid, and clean drinking water. These are the things that we may not have in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Well yeah, you're comparing the US to all kinds of places (and problems), including a Third World country with extremely high crime rates, poverty, and a currency that is worth less than x5 the USD...and has a complete idiot, Bolsonaro, in charge (the one president who may actually be worse than Trump, and tried saying that Brazilians have a natural immune system against COVID as an excuse to avoid shutting things down, but thankfully the individual states closed things anyway). What you're not comparing to is places like Norway, Netherlands, Iceland, New Zealand, Canada, etc. which are some of the places considered to be the best countries in the world to live in presently.

    Idk, this logic is such a mess I wanted to facedesk...politely...with a friendly smile. :/
    You're saying that just because they all have problems, that means the USA is doing okay.
    1) Other countries listed are not equivalent in rank (as already mentioned), and there are other 1st world countries not listed.
    2) Others having something crappy going on =/= USA not having enough going on for it to be sinking, nor USA doing OK. It's like someone saying, "This car's tire is low." Then someone responding, "well, these other random cars have [problems of varying severity], and one of them has a flat tire, so I think this low tire is OK." It doesn't make sense, does it? You wouldn't say that, you'd simply put air in the tire to repair it, so it doesn't end up flat.


    Idk, I don't have much time today or else I'd add my other points. I think this is sufficient for making my point though.
    I'm comparing it to other major powers, which are large and often militaristic societies, and which have social dynamics that are different from small countries like Norway. The USA is doing as well as other countries in its tier. And the USA is about as likely to likely to disintegrate as those other countries, which isn't happening any time soon. It's certainly a possibility in all of the aforementioned cases. A partial disintegration is certainly conceivable (like the spectre of Northern Ireland leaving the UK), as is the retrenchment of overseas commitments, the loss of spheres of influence, the loss of military bases, and so on. But a full-on disintegration of a centuries old political entity, with deep cultural and economic ties between its constituent regions, is a bigger shift than people realize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    It's still a ray of hope. Remember, Hillary's campaign outspent Trump's, which means that money wasn't the only deciding factor. And the reason that Trump won, in large part, was his ability to mobilize populist sentiments.
    Again: Clinton was a war criminal, a regular criminal, and an obvious monster, with the charisma of a wet paper bag to boot, who was the only other choice. If you see it as the people's will to narrow down the choices to Clinton and Trump, then you must believe the people are fucking morons, and I don't know what value you see in "democracy." Next in 2020, according to your worldview, the people decided to replace their former choice with the walking dead. The average Joe on the street believes passionately that there is no one better to be President than a decomposing corpse, and the election stands as a historical monument to the tolerance of liberal society, extended even to the undead.

    No, money spent isn't the only deciding factor. People aren't that mechanized yet; they don't just calculate to the cent how much was spent and sell their vote to the higher bidder. No matter how much Burger King spends on advertisement it can't convince most people its burgers are better than McDonalds'. But both are terrible, and in this analogy you have no choice but to pick one to eat every day for the next few years. That isn't a meaningful choice.

    Besides, liberal media effectively supported Trump during both the Republican primary and the election, giving him free advertising, because they thought that the idea of Trump becoming President was so ridiculous it would cause people to vote for Clinton -- and Clinton was a candidate who probably did better the less she was exposed to media coverage. It was a miscalculation, but it was effective support from the propaganda machine.

    Besides, what's the alternative: staying home and doing nothing?
    Liberal ideology at work. "We can't do anything except vote; therefore voting is doing something."

    Yes, doing "nothing" is preferable. By refusing to participate in the charade you refuse to support it.

    I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If you're asking to me pretend that the Democratic party is principled, then I won't. I'm not a Democrat, and neither liberal nor conservative elites appeal to me. Frankly, speaking as a non-American, both sides of the American culture war seem a little weird (and so would my country's culture wars seem to Americans, probably).
    I'm asking you to see that elections are fixed when there's actually danger to the status quo. Which is what the video I linked shows. The Democrats are one of two choices; if the issue is that they aren't "principled" enough not to fix their elections, the only conclusions are that either the Republicans are the only voice for true democracy, that the US doesn't have one, or that the term is meaningless.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 11-23-2021 at 07:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Again: Clinton was a war criminal, a regular criminal, and an obvious monster, with the charisma of a wet paper bag to boot, who was the only other choice. If you see it as the people's will to narrow down the choices to Clinton and Trump, then you must believe the people are fucking morons, and I don't know what value you see in "democracy." Next in 2020, according to your worldview, the people decided to replace their former choice with the walking dead. The average Joe on the street believes passionately that there is no one better to be President than a decomposing corpse, and the election stands as a historical monument to the tolerance of liberal society, extended even to the undead.

    No, money spent isn't the only deciding factor. People aren't that mechanized yet; they don't just calculate to the cent how much was spent and sell their vote to the higher bidder. No matter how much Burger King spends on advertisement it can't convince most people its burgers are better than McDonalds'. But both are terrible, and in this analogy you have no choice but to pick one to eat every day for the next few years. That isn't a meaningful choice.

    Besides, liberal media effectively supported Trump during both the Republican primary and the election, giving him free advertising, because they thought that the idea of Trump becoming President was so ridiculous it would cause people to vote for Clinton -- and Clinton was a candidate who probably did better the less she was exposed to media coverage. It was a miscalculation, but it was effective support from the propaganda machine.
    You say that Clinton lost because she's an obvious monster with no charisma. If we grant that, then she lost because of her platform, political history, and self-presentation. It means that she lost, via a popular poll, in spite of her large support within the establishment.


    Liberal ideology at work. "We can't do anything except vote; therefore voting is doing something."

    Yes, doing "nothing" is preferable. By refusing to participate in the charade you refuse to support it.

    I'm asking you to see that elections are fixed when there's actually danger to the status quo. Which is what the video I linked shows. The Democrats are one of two choices; if the issue is that they aren't "principled" enough not to fix their elections, the only conclusions are that either the Republicans are the only voice for true democracy, that the US doesn't have one, or that the term is meaningless.
    On the contrary, by refusing to participate, you're helping to cement the establishment's boldest claim: that government should be entirely in the hands of a professional class of managers, technocrats, and business persons — the people who contribute the most to political life being, therefore, the people who deserve to decide its outcomes.

    Nevertheless, there are different ways to refuse to vote:

    1. Refusing to vote because no candidate is suitable, yet being outspoken or politically active in trying to change what's being offered. This is still a form of participation, perhaps a necessary one provided that there's no urgency to vote for the lesser of two evils.

    2. Refusing to vote out of apathy or due to a fundamental disagreement with electoral politics. This isn't a form of participation.
    Last edited by xerx; 11-24-2021 at 05:34 AM. Reason: punctuation

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    You say that Clinton lost because she's an obvious monster with no charisma. If we grant that, then she lost because of her platform, political history, and self-presentation. It means that she lost, via a popular poll, in spite of her large support within the establishment.
    OK, I'll grant that Trump wasn't the establishment's first choice. But A) he only won because of strategic miscalculation on the "establishment's" part, and B) he himself was the establishment, and was completely usable by the establishment, and if there was even a chance he weren't he would never have been elected.

    You seem to be pretending that I'm saying voting makes literally no difference to the outcome of any race. My point is that it's not a meaningful difference. If a manager tells employees they can either accept a pay cut or work longer hours, and the workers vote for longer hours, that's not a victory for the workers, no matter if the manager would have preferred they accepted the pay cut. In the same way, when people are offered a "choice" between two rulers, it makes no difference if the majority of our ruling class would prefer one side to win rather than the other. Even when we select the other candidate, the establishment still wins, and everyone else loses.

    "Democracy" exists because it settles disputes between various factions of the ruling class without much bloodshed while dispelling class consciousness among the lower classes. It's a relatively minor concession, because the only fight is between elite and elite -- who would fight anyway, and need some way of resolving their disagreements -- and it ensures non-elites are pacified into not coming for them all as a class. Yes, if you think the elections aren't crooked -- which in America isn't a sure bet -- the people are permitted to choose which faction they'd like to rule them. But they don't get to name their own candidates, nor their own terms. Notice that the best example of an "anti-establishment" candidate you can come up with is a billionaire whose opponent was close enough with him to attend his wedding, He did quite a lot for certain factions of the elite (e.g. investors in private military contracting, oil, or agriculture) but did jack shit for anyone who wasn't an elite. Do you think this is just coincidence? "The people" are just dumb enough to consistently choose time and time again candidates who do nothing for them? If you honestly believe that Trump was the person Americans thought was best suited to be President, do, or Joe Biden for that matter, why not just advocate a nuclear holocaust of the country? Clearly we're retarded.

    On the contrary, by refusing to participate, you're helping to cement the establishment's boldest claim: that government should be entirely in the hands of a professional class of managers, technocrats, and business persons — the people who contribute the most to political life, being, therefore, the people who deserve to decide its outcomes.
    What are you smoking? How do you think we got a professional class of managers, technocrats, and business persons in the first place?! They all snuck in when everyone forgot to vote during one election season or the other? All you can do is say that we should do the same thing we've always done; the very thing that landed us in this position, as if you can cast out Satan through the power of Satan.

    "Vote, vote vote," as people vote for falling standards of living. People vote every goddamned election. The problem isn't that we need to do more of it.

    2. Refusing to vote out of apathy or due to a fundamental disagreement with representative democracy as a system of government. This isn't a form of participation.
    Yes, and that's a good thing.
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    Adam Strange is right- both sides being bad for damn sure doesn't mean both sides are equally bad. A world of barren nothing ((wrong-wing Faah the Laaawd ignorant dumbfucks)) vs an actual world albiet with some complicated, messy problems we will all figure out with time and effort. I'll take the actual world, thanks. The SJW gays vs straights/blacks vs whites thing is a red herring - nobody is a big strong man for making fun of that as any 2-year-old toddler could. It's about a barren no-world versus an actual world and I'll take the real world for $500, Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    as well as a potentially resurgent and rearming Japan.
    Can somewhat confirm. The JSDF just bought a bunch more of the new F-35s. I saw a number of them last time I was on the airbase. I think there's even more on the way too. They're also renovating their aircraft carriers to be compatible with them. I think the first stage of renovations might already be finished(?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    OK, I'll grant that Trump wasn't the establishment's first choice. But A) he only won because of strategic miscalculation on the "establishment's" part, and B) he himself was the establishment, and was completely usable by the establishment, and if there was even a chance he weren't he would never have been elected.

    You seem to be pretending that I'm saying voting makes literally no difference to the outcome of any race. My point is that it's not a meaningful difference. If a manager tells employees they can either accept a pay cut or work longer hours, and the workers vote for longer hours, that's not a victory for the workers, no matter if the manager would have preferred they accepted the pay cut. In the same way, when people are offered a "choice" between two rulers, it makes no difference if the majority of our ruling class would prefer one side to win rather than the other. Even when we select the other candidate, the establishment still wins, and everyone else loses.

    "Democracy" exists because it settles disputes between various factions of the ruling class without much bloodshed while dispelling class consciousness among the lower classes. It's a relatively minor concession, because the only fight is between elite and elite -- who would fight anyway, and need some way of resolving their disagreements -- and it ensures non-elites are pacified into not coming for them all as a class. Yes, if you think the elections aren't crooked -- which in America isn't a sure bet -- the people are permitted to choose which faction they'd like to rule them. But they don't get to name their own candidates, nor their own terms. Notice that the best example of an "anti-establishment" candidate you can come up with is a billionaire whose opponent was close enough with him to attend his wedding, He did quite a lot for certain factions of the elite (e.g. investors in private military contracting, oil, or agriculture) but did jack shit for anyone who wasn't an elite. Do you think this is just coincidence? "The people" are just dumb enough to consistently choose time and time again candidates who do nothing for them? If you honestly believe that Trump was the person Americans thought was best suited to be President, do, or Joe Biden for that matter, why not just advocate a nuclear holocaust of the country? Clearly we're retarded.
    I have no illusion that Donald Trump isn't just another swamp creature. But it isn't really true that he did nothing for his constituents. For one thing, he has filled the courts with conservative judges that are friendly to the evangelical right. These judges will have enormous control over who gets to vote, who gets sent to jail, who gets to join a union, and so on. Donald Trump may have only recently materialized, but the conservative revolution that he helped to materialize did not. It has been in the works for generations, overseen by an array of determined businessmen and activists.


    What are you smoking? How do you think we got a professional class of managers, technocrats, and business persons in the first place?! They all snuck in when everyone forgot to vote during one election season or the other? All you can do is say that we should do the same thing we've always done; the very thing that landed us in this position, as if you can cast out Satan through the power of Satan.

    "Vote, vote vote," as people vote for falling standards of living. People vote every goddamned election. The problem isn't that we need to do more of it.

    Yes, and that's a good thing.
    OK. Suppose that everyone did stop voting, stopped participating in electoral fundraising, and stopped going to party rallies. Suppose also that the next election saw a voter turnout of 0%. Suppose that people stopped cross-examining corruption because of the expectation that the next politician would be crooked anyway.

    Will elites now begin soul-searching to find out why their policies failed to attract support? Will it stop them from showing up to their jobs the next day? The bureaucracy will continue along, whether it has popular support or not. And the results of the non-participation will be paraded as proof that people are indifferent to the problems of society, and that they should be managed and overseen by professionals for their own good.

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    @FreelancePoliceman: what's your strategy for changing the status quo, by the way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWellArmedCat View Post
    Can somewhat confirm. The JSDF just bought a bunch more of the new F-35s. I saw a number of them last time I was on the airbase. I think there's even more on the way too. They're also renovating their aircraft carriers to be compatible with them. I think the first stage of renovations might already be finished(?)
    Yeah, Japan was forbidden from having aircraft carriers but was allowed to have "helicopter carriers" (it has four, IIRC).

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    My greatest fear is the gerrymandering that will keep minority Republicans in power forever.

    They wouldn’t gerrymander if they believed in Democracy, but they don’t. They only say that they do. Their actions tell a different story.

    I’ve said it before, but about 40% of the population does not feel comfortable living in a democracy. They want strong rulers who will crush their enemies by any means possible, because the ends justify the means. Mostly crushing the people who don’t look like them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Yeah, Japan was forbidden from having aircraft carriers but was allowed to have "helicopter carriers" (it has four, IIRC).
    It only has two, the Izumo, and the Kaga. They are both being renovated to allow for the F-35s to take off and land on them. The US has agreed to continue recognizing them as "helicopter carriers" though because aircraft carriers have been judged unconstitutional, and remain so. They are getting around this for now because the JSDF will not be operating the F-35s stationed on the carriers, the USMC will. Meanwhile, all of the JSDF's new F-35s will be operated out of land bases. Functionally none of this really makes any difference though. Japan operates basically in tandem with the US in military affairs, and all the weirdness is just to get around their constitution which prevents them from fielding a force which could be deemed capable of invading other countries
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I have no illusion that Donald Trump isn't just another swamp creature. But it isn't really true that he did nothing for his constituents. For one thing, he has filled the courts with conservative judges that are friendly to the evangelical right. These judges will have enormous control over who gets to vote, who gets sent to jail, who gets to join a union, and so on. Donald Trump may have only recently materialized, but the conservative revolution that he helped to materialize did not. It has been in the works for generations, overseen by an array of determined businessmen and activists.
    ;
    "Who gets to vote --" generally citizens are allowed to vote, unless I'm missing something. "Who gets sent to jail --" Again, Biden was the architect of the prison state the US is today. Also, how does sending certain people to jail help the average Republican constituent? "Who gets to join a union --" A) Democrats abandoned and sold out unions under Clinton, and have maintained their course since; B) this doesn't help working-class Republicans. I'm doubtful business owners comprise a majority of Republican voters.

    OK. Suppose that everyone did stop voting, stopped participating in electoral fundraising, and stopped going to party rallies. Suppose also that the next election saw a voter turnout of 0%. Suppose that people stopped cross-examining corruption because of the expectation that the next politician would be crooked anyway.

    Will elites now begin soul-searching to find out why their policies failed to attract support? Will it stop them from showing up to their jobs the next day? The bureaucracy will continue along, whether it has popular support or not. And the results of the non-participation will be paraded as proof that people are indifferent to the problems of society, and that they should be managed and overseen by professionals for their own good.
    No, the bureaucracy most likely wouldn't immediately collapse. But a population that doesn't vote is a population that obviously doesn't give a shit what the media say, and at that point things aren't going to be continuing along as they were. There will be no one in front of whom to parade, and you're at least right that the elites will have more important matters to attend to than soul-searching.

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    @FreelancePoliceman: what's your strategy for changing the status quo, by the way?
    Before you can make change you need to understand your situation. Buying into voting obscures your understanding of reality, and therefore your ability to effect meaningful change. Refusing to vote, and convincing others likewise, is a first step.
    Views and clicks make these grow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    "Who gets to vote --" generally citizens are allowed to vote, unless I'm missing something.
    "Who gets to vote --", referring to redistricting and gerrymandering. There is also the incidence of voter suppression against minorities (I don't know enough about that to go into detail, sorry).


    "Who gets sent to jail --" Again, Biden was the architect of the prison state the US is today. Also, how does sending certain people to jail help the average Republican constituent? "Who gets to join a union --" A) Democrats abandoned and sold out unions under Clinton, and have maintained their course since; B) this doesn't help working-class Republicans. I'm doubtful business owners comprise a majority of Republican voters.
    You're making the mistake that all radicals make, which is to assume that everyone secretly wants the same thing. They do not, irrespective of whether or not it clashes with their personal interests.

    Many regular people (including minorities) support the police out of a belief in law and order, and some support the police force because they have family that works there. Many regular workers hate unions for being antithetical to business interests, whether this is because they're aspiring businesspersons or for some ideological reason.

    RE. Biden: you don't have to tell me about his poor track record WRT to representing the class interests of the working poor.


    No, the bureaucracy most likely wouldn't immediately collapse. But a population that doesn't vote is a population that obviously doesn't give a shit what the media say, and at that point things aren't going to be continuing along as they were. There will be no one in front of whom to parade, and you're at least right that the elites will have more important matters to attend to than soul-searching.

    Before you can make change you need to understand your situation. Buying into voting obscures your understanding of reality, and therefore your ability to effect meaningful change. Refusing to vote, and convincing others likewise, is a first step.
    Well, I disagree that it'll work, but suit yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    "Who gets to vote --", referring to redistricting and gerrymandering. There is also the incidence of voter suppression against minorities (I don't know enough about that to go into detail, sorry).
    "Voter suppression" these days in the States usually refers to making it a mild inconvenience to vote. The fact that significant numbers of people will abandon their right to supposedly rule themselves if it takes an extra hour out of their lives every few years should tell you something about how much good it's perceived to do.

    In any case, so what if they do? Democrats do the same when they're in power, and no matter what happens, another corporate stooge will be democratically elected according to the will of the people than another one.

    You're making the mistake that all radicals make, which is to assume that everyone secretly wants the same thing. They do not, irrespective of whether or not it clashes with their personal interests.

    Many regular people (including minorities) support the police out of a belief in law and order, and some support the police force because they have family that works there. Many regular workers hate unions for being antithetical to business interests, whether this is because they're aspiring businesspersons or for some ideological reason.
    Yes, ideology can blind people to their interests. Instead, the rich employ it to convince the poor to support the interests of the rich. This isn't a stunning endorsement of democracy. No matter which way they vote, the poor vote for the interests of one faction of the rich vs. another, but not their own.

    RE. Biden: you don't have to tell me about his poor track record WRT to representing the class interests of the working poor.
    Good, because you don't think Trump did either. Well, Trump and Biden were the only options we got. No matter which was elected, the "working poor" lost; the rich won.

    Well, I disagree that it'll work, but suit yourself.

    But we know that voting doesn't.
    We've been trying voting for quite a while now. Why should it suddenly start working? I say: give it up, and try something else.
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    America's best days were behind it as soon as the Globalist pigs highjacked the economy....now thanks to that Globalist Pig Biden (aka dementia joe the creepy molester) and really the history of Globalist Piggery beginning with that Garbage Nafta Deal orchestrated by the worst and dumbest president in history, Bill Clinton...even just scoring a deal on a used 4 x 4 (winter beater) so I can throw my car into Storage for the Winter is a pain in the fckin ass, as the Supply Chain has been astronomically fucked due to US dependence on other countries to supply electronics necessary for building more trucks. People blame the pandemic...its not the pandemic stupid, its globalism and oh the pandemic, another ingenius result of globalist pig exploiters like "Oink Oink" Kathie Lee Gifford bending over for China.

    Basically the globalist pigs sacrificed America's Standard of Living in order to increase the standard of living for other countries and especially China...that's what the fuck it came down to. Now thanks to the globalist pigs the middle class is on the verge of extinction....These robots being churned out by colleges are now 100+ grand in debt and have an earning capacity between 60-85k a year. That's a fckin joke. 85k a year, better learn to starve and cohabit apartments with paper thin walls and cheap floors. 150k a year still gotta starve a bit. Standard of living fckin skyrocketed while the job salaries and opportunities really went the fck nowhere. As globalism took greater hold of the democratic party the democratic party morphed into the identity politic cesspool it is now and the average american consumer turned into an impractical as fuck retarded spender. Kiss the middle class goodbye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    "Voter suppression" these days in the States usually refers to making it a mild inconvenience to vote. The fact that significant numbers of people will abandon their right to supposedly rule themselves if it takes an extra hour out of their lives every few years should tell you something about how much good it's perceived to do.
    In my country, you can register to vote online and they send you a special voter ID in the mail. It's super convenient. And the physical piece of identification, which gets sent every election, is a nice reminder to vote in the election.

    The fact that a significant number of people abandon their right to vote is a problem, but it's a cultural one, not something that's fixed in place.


    In any case, so what if they do? Democrats do the same when they're in power, and no matter what happens, another corporate stooge will be democratically elected according to the will of the people than another one.

    Yes, ideology can blind people to their interests. Instead, the rich employ it to convince the poor to support the interests of the rich. This isn't a stunning endorsement of democracy. No matter which way they vote, the poor vote for the interests of one faction of the rich vs. another, but not their own.

    Good, because you don't think Trump did either. Well, Trump and Biden were the only options we got. No matter which was elected, the "working poor" lost; the rich won.


    But we know that voting doesn't.
    We've been trying voting for quite a while now. Why should it suddenly start working? I say: give it up, and try something else.
    We know that voting works to create restraints on corruption, as is evidenced by the numerous examples of open, egalitarian, social democratic societies (like Switzerland, to name one), which don't have such a strong culture of fatalism and indifference towards their civic privileges.

    FreelancePoliceman, politicians don't have a choice in whom they serve. The types of policies that they're forced to support are limited, quite literally right out of the gate. They serve the interests of their best-mobilized constituents, because promising to serve those who are cynical and apathetic would make them lose their next election. I can't prove this, but they probably don't even have a choice on whether or not to be corrupt.

    The evangelical right has been one of the best-organized factions in recent American history, and they have managed to shape the modern Republican party's stance on most cultural issues.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My greatest fear is the gerrymandering that will keep minority Republicans in power forever.

    They wouldn’t gerrymander if they believed in Democracy, but they don’t. They only say that they do. Their actions tell a different story.

    I’ve said it before, but about 40% of the population does not feel comfortable living in a democracy. They want strong rulers who will crush their enemies by any means possible, because the ends justify the means. Mostly crushing the people who don’t look like them.
    Cute. If you think there's any real difference in regards to who holds power and that "Minority Republicans" are the problem, well, I got this amazing bridge in Brooklyn I just acquired and am very willing to sell to you at a price so low you'd easily mistake me for a con man!

    Yeah, the gerrymandering can, will, and does ensure few if any seats in the House are actually "up for grabs" as it were. The deeper question is whether or not that actually matters. Primaries are a thing and as a macro-level presidential election was rigged successfully, well, a greater justification of my pessimism you'd be hard pressed to find.

    After all, if I can rig the biggest election of a "democratic" nation and institue an administration damn near half (if not more) of the people who voted will swear upon the graves of their forefathers was rigged? And actually get shit done for the PTB?

    Yeah, that recent trial in Kenosha was a major bullet dodge for the woke cultists. You don't want to see what happens when right wing Gammas rightfully conclude they got nothing to lose. Hell, you're a Gamma NT yourself. Surely you were at least secretly relieved when that verdict got handed down. The next Civil War is coming but now we got the next year or two to prepare over the next few weeks or months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    Adam Strange is right- both sides being bad for damn sure doesn't mean both sides are equally bad. A world of barren nothing ((wrong-wing Faah the Laaawd ignorant dumbfucks)) vs an actual world albiet with some complicated, messy problems we will all figure out with time and effort. I'll take the actual world, thanks. The SJW gays vs straights/blacks vs whites thing is a red herring - nobody is a big strong man for making fun of that as any 2-year-old toddler could. It's about a barren no-world versus an actual world and I'll take the real world for $500, Alex.
    Your wording is confusing to me. Would you rather operate under the aegis of the "woke" or the aegis of their so called opponents? I ask because this is a very relevant data point for me. Are you an "istophobe" protean right wing austrian painter or are you instead a proud wielder of the hammer and sickle who is, was, and always shall be on the "right" side of history?

    Inquiring minds wish to know .

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Cute. If you think there's any real difference in regards to who holds power and that "Minority Republicans" are the problem, well, I got this amazing bridge in Brooklyn I just acquired and am very willing to sell to you at a price so low you'd easily mistake me for a con man!

    Yeah, the gerrymandering can, will, and does ensure few if any seats in the House are actually "up for grabs" as it were. The deeper question is whether or not that actually matters. Primaries are a thing and as a macro-level presidential election was rigged successfully, well, a greater justification of my pessimism you'd be hard pressed to find.

    After all, if I can rig the biggest election of a "democratic" nation and institue an administration damn near half (if not more) of the people who voted will swear upon the graves of their forefathers was rigged? And actually get shit done for the PTB?

    Yeah, that recent trial in Kenosha was a major bullet dodge for the woke cultists. You don't want to see what happens when right wing Gammas rightfully conclude they got nothing to lose. Hell, you're a Gamma NT yourself. Surely you were at least secretly relieved when that verdict got handed down. The next Civil War is coming but now we got the next year or two to prepare over the next few weeks or months.



    Your wording is confusing to me. Would you rather operate under the aegis of the "woke" or the aegis of their so called opponents? I ask because this is a very relevant data point for me. Are you an "istophobe" protean right wing austrian painter or are you instead a proud wielder of the hammer and sickle who is, was, and always shall be on the "right" side of history?

    Inquiring minds wish to know .
    that Rittenhouse trial was a fckin woke joke...that kid never needed to be arrested or put on trial. It was not even a close call....only a complete tard could draw the conclusion that Rittenhouse was not acting in self-defense. That prosecutor's license needs to be stripped for that sham kangaroo circus he attempted to orchestrate, and that Judge deserves a medal for not letting that cunt prosecutor turn that trial into a political shit show .

    leave it to Cokehead Al Sharpton to try and turn it into a racial issue, because it happened during the protests of the Jacob Blake shooting.

    This whole "woke" culture thing is gay as fck. Watch Aaron Rodgers speech when he made fun of the woke culture wanting to stick him into a "cancel culture coffin", not long after the Woke Pink team cheered on the firing of the Raiders head coach Gruden, after like so many black guys, athletes, coaches, including the great coach, Tony Dungy, came out and said the guy was absolutely not racist. but the woke culture is fast asleep when a so obviously white girl like Meaghan Markle delusionally claims that, as a black woman, she is the victim of racism when in fact that is impossible because she is so obviously NOT BLACK or the woke culture is comatose to Racist Joe's segregationist policies back in his KKK heyday that even his own VP called him out for and the Woke culture is comatose to the delusion that Poop for brains Kamala Harris perpetrates of her being a poster-girl of the black struggle in America in spite of her upper class Jamaican-Indian decent. It is ironic how ASLEEP the WOKE culture actually is

    Woke means Broke. Loser. To be Woke means to be as Broke as a Joke because that's what woke represents....the rise of the jobless shitbum aka Bernie Sanders' hero, whose woke to not what losers they are but to the fact they are not being thrown enough free handouts
    Last edited by Kill4Me; Yesterday at 02:08 PM.

  22. #62
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    Republicans are questioning the integrity of the system because they lost the last election. Questioning the legitimacy of elections, doctors, and legal scholars, however rightly or wrongly, is the strategy that's deployed by the weaker side. COVID restrictions, vaccinations, immigration, and globalization are all deployed as fodder — indiscriminately — to insinuate the predominance of some nebulous liberal establishment, as though the 'globalist elite' is only comprised of liberals and not also conservatives that have conservative cultural beliefs.
    Last edited by xerx; Yesterday at 10:56 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Republicans are questioning the integrity of the system because they lost the last election. Questioning the legitimacy of elections, doctors, and legal scholars, however rightly or wrongly, is the strategy that's deployed by the weaker side.
    More specifically, conservatives perceive themselves as the weaker side. Way too many conservatives are professional victims, especially of alleged cancellation. They make SJW's seem like rugged heroes from Norse mythology.

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    More specifically, conservatives perceive themselves as the weaker side. Way too many conservatives are professional victims, especially of alleged cancellation. They make SJW's seem like rugged heroes from Norse mythology.
    Or as a recent podcast that Father Chad Ripperger was a part of put it, conservatives/Devout Christians are in an abusive relationship with their partner and they're acting like a basic bitch abusee. See, for instance, the abuser (i.e. liberals and SJWs) accuse them of istaphobia or being a racist and they then respond by saying "What? I'm not a racist/istaphobe! What the hell gave you that idea!"

    EXACTLY what they ought not to say. To break the abuser's hold over you you must never address the issues they bring up. Instead, address them. Don't defend yourself for the very act legitimizes their accusations. Instead, ask them a relevant question pertaining to them. For instance, if someone calls you a racist or something you clearly aren't ask them "Have you always had a problem with convicting people of something they're not guilty of?" and/or "Have you always had a problem with lying to people?" over trying to prove to them how you're totally not a racist or whatnot. Put the focus on them instead of yourself. They want the focus to be on you so they can assert control over you. NO! Fuck em'! Put the focus on them so you get to assert control over them! Watch with glee as they recoil in pain and horror at the fact you've figured them out and they have no way of countering it in any way that matters spiritually.

    Hell, in an abusive relationship the circle of lies is essentially complete. You know (if you're smart) that they're lying about/to you, and they know you know they're lying, but hey, if they can force you to labor under that false assertion and to act as though it's true anyway then hell, what does that fact matter? Outcome's still the same as they want so what's it matter that you know they're lying about you? The enemy is demonic and operates under demon logic. The "conservatives" don't get this because they too don't like the implications and obligations God's existence entails. Like I've said elsewhere they don't really oppose the liberals in any way that truly matters. Their morality is the same, but the conservatives only disagree on what, to both of them, are superficial matters (e.g. whether or not children should be involved in Pride parades or if the age of consent ought to be 18 instead of 14).

    If demons are real, so is God. If God is real, well, that means quite a lot more...

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Republicans are questioning the integrity of the system because they lost the last election. Questioning the legitimacy of elections, doctors, and legal scholars, however rightly or wrongly, is the strategy that's deployed by the weaker side. COVID restrictions, vaccinations, immigration, and globalization are all deployed as fodder — indiscriminately — to insinuate the predominance of some nebulous liberal establishment, as though the 'globalist elite' is only comprised of liberals and not also conservatives that have conservative cultural beliefs.
    Yeah, and Democrats questioned the integrity of the system when Trump won, pretending that Russians somehow pull the levers of American elections, while ignoring the foreign state politicians have to swear allegiance to before being even considered for federal office in this country.

    If you think elections here are fair and/or transparent I have a bridge to sell you. People question the elections because they're crooked. Every election should be questioned -- or, better yet, people should just realize their votes don't matter, because the fact that they're crooked isn't even the real problem. Though to someone who subscribes to liberal ideology and therefore believes the only problem with democracy is when it's "unfair," the deafening silence of politicians on the problems with our voting systems should be raising alarms that we don't have a "real" "democracy." Yet as soon as it's the Democrat winning every liberal ideologue is talking about how stupid conservatives are for believing in a deep state. What I don't understand is that even establishment media occasionally acknowledge the problems with voting machines, but believing any interests are actually taking advantage of them -- you must be stupid! Yeah, the CIA once infiltrated mass media disseminators or began their own outlets to spread propaganda, and sure, there's no indication they ever stopped, but believing they didn't is the mark of a crazy person. The FBI killed political radicals a few decades ago, but they wouldn't now; why don't you trust the experts?
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; Today at 09:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Yeah, and Democrats questioned the integrity of the system when Trump won, pretending that Russians somehow pull the levers of American elections, while ignoring the foreign state politicians have to swear allegiance to before being even considered for federal office in this country.

    If you think elections here are fair and/or transparent I have a bridge to sell you. People question the elections because they're crooked. Every election should be questioned -- or, better yet, people should just realize their votes don't matter, because the fact that they're crooked isn't even the real problem. Though to someone who subscribes to liberal ideology and therefore believes the only problem with democracy is when it's "unfair," the deafening silence of politicians on the problems with our voting systems should be raising alarms that we don't have a "real" "democracy." Yet as soon as it's the Democrat winning every liberal ideologue is talking about how stupid conservatives are for believing in a deep state. What I don't understand is that even establishment media occasionally acknowledge the problems with voting machines, but believing any interests are actually taking advantage of them -- you must be stupid! Yeah, the CIA once infiltrated mass media disseminators or began their own outlets to spread propaganda, and sure, there's no indication they ever stopped, but believing they didn't is the mark of a crazy person. The FBI killed political radicals a few decades ago, but they wouldn't now; why don't you trust the experts?

    Yesterday, after losing to them eight times in a row, the Michigan Wolverines football team beat the Ohio State Buckeyes, 42 to 27.

    My IEI cousin in Tucson, who is an Ohio State fan, was narrating the game to me here in Ann Arbor, Michigan, over text because I don't have a television. Nor do I watch sports:

    "I think the referees have bets on the game. Only calling penalties against the Buckeyes."

    "Teams just got into a big fight. Michigan started it but OSU got penalized."

    "You can watch the game on Fox."

    No, I can't. I don't have TV.
    Finally, after Michigan won,

    "This has not been a fair game. That's the difference. You have to calculate the human decisions by the "impartial" referees."


    :\

    I blame Fox News for all this.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; Today at 05:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Yesterday, after losing to them eight times in a row, the Michigan Wolverines football team beat the Ohio State Buckeyes, 42 to 27.

    My IEI cousin in Tucson, who is an Ohio State fan, was narrating the game to me here in Ann Arbor, Michigan, over text because I don't have a television. Nor do I watch sports:

    "I think the referees have bets on the game. Only calling penalties against the Buckeyes."

    "Teams just got into a big fight. Michigan started it but OSU got penalized."

    "You can watch the game on Fox."

    No, I can't. I don't have TV.
    Finally, after Michigan won,

    "This has not been a fair game. That's the difference. You have to calculate the human decisions by the "impartial" referees."


    :\

    I blame Fox News for all this.
    I'm afraid I don't follow.
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