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Thread: 4D Fi & Recognizing One's Emotions

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    Default 4D Fi & Recognizing One's Emotions

    I would like to make the case that having strong Fi does not necessarily mean that you easily recognize your own feelings for other people.


    I used to struggle with feeling like I don't actually love my brother, despite having a healthy, comfortable, albeit distant relationship with him. I thought it must be some fucked up SX-blind thing.
    Feeling very guilty about it, I brought it up to my mother, ESI SP/SX, and she admitted that it took her years after marriage to realize that she loved my father. My father, a logical type, knew he loved her very soon.

    Following in her footsteps, I've been very slow in realizing how I feel towards my boyfriend. In this aspect I lag far behind him, and like my father, he is also a logical type. Are logical types slightly less daft than ethical types in this regard?

    Rationally, I figured I liked him to some extent since I couldn't bring myself to prevent the progression of the relationship (excepting at the beginning, when I friendzoned him once, then refriendzoned him..), but it took a while to feel it, you know? I still get the strange impression that I don't quite realize the extent of my feelings towards him. (So I try not to overthink it and to trust my actions more than my thoughts/feelings.) (which is a funny thing for an e4 to try and do)

    Has any Fi ego also observed this seemingly paradoxical ethical slowness within themselves?

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    IEIs are naturally ambivalent imo/ime so you can't really recognize your own feelings a lot of the time because they are so inherently contradictory. People get more extremely upset or pissed or in love or more nicer or more meaner than me because in this area its so cloudy even though I'm sensitive.

    A male IEE therapist once didn't like this about me but its like tough shit I don't see how I can change it. I'm naturally ambivalent, deal with it you pussies. I didn't really like his stupid straight male car shows that he always went to either lol. Actually sometimes I really do just completely loathe something probably but I am still tempted to be nice about it even if I feel like being an asshole - because keeping the peace to me is usually more important than winning an arguement (lookalike to SEI after all) And well IEIs don't really value Fi anyway so I don't really feel like crushing somebody completely just because they like something different.

    I've been more assertive about saying when I don't like something though, speaking up etc. At the same time I liked the male IEE therapist because he stood up for me against the cruel LSE cunt but meh she was just universally loathesome regardless of her type. ((btw this was a different IEE male therapist than the one who awkwardly read passages to me out of the bible lol))

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    IEIs are naturally ambivalent imo/ime so you can't really recognize your own feelings a lot of the time because they are so inherently contradictory. People get more extremely upset or pissed or in love or more nicer or more meaner than me because in this area its so cloudy even though I'm sensitive.

    A male IEE therapist once didn't like this about me but its like tough shit I don't see how I can change it. I'm naturally ambivalent, deal with it you pussies. I didn't really like his stupid straight male car shows that he always went to either lol. Actually sometimes I really do just completely loathe something probably but I am still tempted to be nice about it even if I feel like being an asshole - because keeping the peace to me is usually more important than winning an arguement (lookalike to SEI after all) And well IEIs don't really value Fi anyway so I don't really feel like crushing somebody completely just because they like something different.

    I've been more assertive about saying when I don't like something though, speaking up etc. At the same time I liked the male IEE therapist because he stood up for me against the cruel LSE cunt but meh she was just universally loathesome regardless of her type. ((btw this was a different IEE male therapist than the one who awkwardly read passages to me out of the bible lol))
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    btw this was a different IEE male therapist than the one who awkwardly read passages to me out of the bible lol
    Wtf, lol...I'd have way too much fun with this. I want a therapist like this. I'd probably make them read passages that made them question their own faith.
    ESI-Se ✰ ISFP
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    (I think this is a defective system that fails to capture who/how I am for the most part, though. I relate to NONE of the driving motives/defense mechanisms behind any type.)

    "I think that it is sometimes really hard for us to understand what someone else's journey is . . . I think that is part of the intrigue . . . but when we don't understand someone else's culture, or where they have been, we can often misinterpret their actions and what they mean because of that." — Georgia Dow


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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    I would like to make the case that having strong Fi does not necessarily mean that you easily recognize your own feelings for other people.


    I used to struggle with feeling like I don't actually love my brother, despite having a healthy, comfortable, albeit distant relationship with him. I thought it must be some fucked up SX-blind thing.
    Feeling very guilty about it, I brought it up to my mother, ESI SP/SX, and she admitted that it took her years after marriage to realize that she loved my father. My father, a logical type, knew he loved her very soon.

    Following in her footsteps, I've been very slow in realizing how I feel towards my boyfriend. In this aspect I lag far behind him, and like my father, he is also a logical type. Are logical types slightly less daft than ethical types in this regard?

    Rationally, I figured I liked him to some extent since I couldn't bring myself to prevent the progression of the relationship (excepting at the beginning, when I friendzoned him once, then refriendzoned him..), but it took a while to feel it, you know? I still get the strange impression that I don't quite realize the extent of my feelings towards him. (So I try not to overthink it and to trust my actions more than my thoughts/feelings.) (which is a funny thing for an e4 to try and do)

    Has any Fi ego also observed this seemingly paradoxical ethical slowness within themselves?
    I'm very aware of my own feelings/inner self for the most part, tbh. I've had a psychiatrist who barely knew me point this out before as well, so I think it's pretty obvious to others around me. If anything, I'm not only aware of my own, but also aware of others' that they're not aware of. My closest people are an LIE and an ILI, and both of them have rather low emotional awareness moments sometimes (especially the LIE). Once I point things out, they realize they unconsciously felt/perceived X or Y. Tbh though, for the most part, I usually am neutral/happy/okay, outside of some mild irritation or annoyance with specific things here or there. (The only things that truly put me in some sort of rage are things like child abuse, animal cruelty, etc. basically inflicting harm upon those who are innocent and defenseless.) When things are faint/mild, it can take me a couple of minutes to understand what I feel or why; it simply isn't that prominent or obvious. On the other hand, when trying to move on from someone, I was entirely unaware that I still had feelings deep down. I think it mostly was just steamrolled by the way I'd turned cold on them, though. Once the problems we'd been having cleared up, it was obvious again.
    ESI-Se ✰ ISFP
    Enneagram: 6 Sx/Sx/Sx/So -ish, Tritype 628
    (I think this is a defective system that fails to capture who/how I am for the most part, though. I relate to NONE of the driving motives/defense mechanisms behind any type.)

    "I think that it is sometimes really hard for us to understand what someone else's journey is . . . I think that is part of the intrigue . . . but when we don't understand someone else's culture, or where they have been, we can often misinterpret their actions and what they mean because of that." — Georgia Dow


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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    I'm very aware of my own feelings/inner self for the most part, tbh. I've had a psychiatrist who barely knew me point this out before as well, so I think it's pretty obvious to others around me. If anything, I'm not only aware of my own, but also aware of others' that they're not aware of. My closest people are an LIE and an ILI, and both of them have rather low emotional awareness moments sometimes (especially the LIE). Once I point things out, they realize they unconsciously felt/perceived X or Y. Tbh though, for the most part, I usually am neutral/happy/okay, outside of some mild irritation or annoyance with specific things here or there. (The only things that truly put me in some sort of rage are things like child abuse, animal cruelty, etc. basically inflicting harm upon those who are innocent and defenseless.) When things are faint/mild, it can take me a couple of minutes to understand what I feel or why; it simply isn't that prominent or obvious. On the other hand, when trying to move on from someone, I was entirely unaware that I still had feelings deep down. I think it mostly was just steamrolled by the way I'd turned cold on them, though. Once the problems we'd been having cleared up, it was obvious again.
    I'm also very aware of my emotions. However, there seem to be a couple, strange blindspots that I share with my mother. Lol, maybe a family thing..??

    Oh, one thing that you're probably good at that is realizing when there's a sensational cause for immediate discomfort/restlessness (feeling cold or whatever) Sometimes takes me an hour to realize that the reason I'm not falling asleep is because I'm slightly cold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    I'm also very aware of my emotions. However, there seem to be a couple, strange blindspots that I share with my mother. Lol, maybe a family thing..??

    Oh, one thing that you're probably good at that is realizing when there's a sensational cause for immediate discomfort/restlessness (feeling cold or whatever) Sometimes takes me an hour to realize that the reason I'm not falling asleep is because I'm slightly cold.
    I see. Well, with that clarified...I mean, is it even realistic to expect someone to be hyperaware of every single feeling ever? I think some degree of searching is sort of just human, honestly.

    The sensational aspect — ehh, I am able to mostly tune it out unless I'm super cold or something. I don't like to be one of those who complain and nitpick about every little minor thing. I'll usually tough through things, especially pain. So...I'll notice, but just not really react. I'm pretty stoic by nature. In general, people are able to count on me to be capable of being the most enduring/resilient one in the room. It enables me to give to those I care about, partly. I sort of hopelessly put others' well-being before my own ("don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon"), but I've learned to keep this within a healthy range.
    ESI-Se ✰ ISFP
    Enneagram: 6 Sx/Sx/Sx/So -ish, Tritype 628
    (I think this is a defective system that fails to capture who/how I am for the most part, though. I relate to NONE of the driving motives/defense mechanisms behind any type.)

    "I think that it is sometimes really hard for us to understand what someone else's journey is . . . I think that is part of the intrigue . . . but when we don't understand someone else's culture, or where they have been, we can often misinterpret their actions and what they mean because of that." — Georgia Dow


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    Could this be related to enneagram type? Maybe the ones that have "competence" type of emotion (3,5,1) have a harder time ascertaining their feelings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    Could this be related to enneagram type? Maybe the ones that have "competence" type of emotion (3,5,1) have a harder time ascertaining their feelings.
    Makes sense for 9s as well.

    I would say I think it makes sense for 8s, but I personally deviate from the standard 8 theory because I think there's too much of an extroverted 8 lean. I think introverted 8s (not covered adequately by resources) will be more attuned to their own inner worlds than the standard sources say. I also think 9 theory has too much of a 9w1 lean, while 9w8s differ (more attuned to their own anger, etc).
    ESI-Se ✰ ISFP
    Enneagram: 6 Sx/Sx/Sx/So -ish, Tritype 628
    (I think this is a defective system that fails to capture who/how I am for the most part, though. I relate to NONE of the driving motives/defense mechanisms behind any type.)

    "I think that it is sometimes really hard for us to understand what someone else's journey is . . . I think that is part of the intrigue . . . but when we don't understand someone else's culture, or where they have been, we can often misinterpret their actions and what they mean because of that." — Georgia Dow


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    @chocolatte Is there any rationalization involved in this? Or feelings of guilt, obligation, and so forth?
    ESI-Se ✰ ISFP
    Enneagram: 6 Sx/Sx/Sx/So -ish, Tritype 628
    (I think this is a defective system that fails to capture who/how I am for the most part, though. I relate to NONE of the driving motives/defense mechanisms behind any type.)

    "I think that it is sometimes really hard for us to understand what someone else's journey is . . . I think that is part of the intrigue . . . but when we don't understand someone else's culture, or where they have been, we can often misinterpret their actions and what they mean because of that." — Georgia Dow


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    How about trusting your feelings?
    I can say that I do not (so I guess I must recognize some level if I say that I do not trust).
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoRandomBSGenerator View Post
    How about trusting your feelings?
    I can say that I do not (so I guess I must recognize some level if I say that I do not trust).
    You seem very pulsing with a number combo or wise faculty of deduction or conception to the point where anything overly animalistic or berserk might be child’s play to your frontier of perception.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KardashevBunny View Post
    You seem very pulsing with a number combo or wise faculty of deduction or conception to the point where anything overly animalistic or berserk might be child’s play to your frontier of perception.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoRandomBSGenerator View Post
    How about trusting your feelings?
    I can say that I do not (so I guess I must recognize some level if I say that I do not trust).
    Good question.

    I think it's important to understand reasons behind this, partly, and context is important as well (is it in only X situations?). A lot of abuse victims who have grown up having their feelings invalidated don't trust their feelings for that reason. I think this is an extreme example of how nurture can take precedence over nature, even if trusting one's feeling does relate to Fi Base.
    ESI-Se ✰ ISFP
    Enneagram: 6 Sx/Sx/Sx/So -ish, Tritype 628
    (I think this is a defective system that fails to capture who/how I am for the most part, though. I relate to NONE of the driving motives/defense mechanisms behind any type.)

    "I think that it is sometimes really hard for us to understand what someone else's journey is . . . I think that is part of the intrigue . . . but when we don't understand someone else's culture, or where they have been, we can often misinterpret their actions and what they mean because of that." — Georgia Dow


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    It depends on the person but I'm stingy so it's usually my reluctance to engage or let others pierce inside that keeps me from developing a sense of closeness with someone. Generally, logical types aren't going to have much emphasis on the standards for interpersonal relationships or the different emotional depths/stages that are reached through Fi's particular sensibilities and I think it's the narrow-scope of any introverted type that slows things down and makes them a lot more difficult to reach in a meaningful way. I'm aware of how I feel towards someone but the content of what I'm feeling and how I relate to the experiences of that relationship isn't always organic or mutually reciprocated and it might be totally offbeat for others or seemingly contrived and out of place, be-it too fast/intense or slow/distant. I'm waiting for a partner to claim my affection, not looking to make adjustments for them and it takes knowing what your needs are to stand by them and to keep that aligned with your actions/behavior. I do think being intuitive makes you more indecisive, less confident about reality, more prone to idealism and suspension.
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