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Thread: Rate your ability to understand people before and after Socionics/typology knowledge.

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    Default Rate your ability to understand people before and after Socionics/typology knowledge.

    How would you assess your own ability to understand people pre-typology and post-typology? For example, were you generally below average at it before, and Socionics made you better than average?
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    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
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    I don't think it affected my ability to understand others. However, it has helped me in how I react to others. So in that, I think it has helped me understand that others are different and they aren't trying to ruin my day or insult me when they behave in a way I think they shouldn't.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    I don't think it affected my ability to understand others. However, it has helped me in how I react to others. So in that, I think it has helped me understand that others are different and they aren't trying to ruin my day or insult me when they behave in a way I think they shouldn't.
    So it helped you to see outside your own personal view in life more, basically?
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    So it helped you to see outside your own personal view in life more, basically?

    Yeah it helped me understand how I fit in society, or maybe more broadly, that I have a role in society.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    Yeah it helped me understand how I fit in society, or maybe more broadly, that I have a role in society.
    That makes sense. A lot of people probably relate to that. Was it other systems also, or just Socionics mainly?
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

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    I didn't even know people where real before socionics. I thought they were just made up so that the FBI agents online who told me to go outside could convince me that we don't live in a nuclear hellscape.

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    before 4/10

    after 7/10
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    Well ideally, typology is to embrace and accept people into more of their entirety than previously through very general categorizations, but when we assume too much, and obsessively try to box people, it may lead to unnatural reactions and misunderstanding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    That makes sense. A lot of people probably relate to that. Was it other systems also, or just Socionics mainly?
    I think it started with MBTI, since I found that first. But I think I got into all this to figure out who I am in the world and that is why.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Socionics is a natural phenomenon. Obviously you understand people a lot better when you are aware of the cognitive pattern of mankind.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    It has enriched, and in some cases made more concise, the language I use to represent people to myself. For example, instead of saying to myself "someone with such-and-such characteristics," I can just say "ENFp." I don't, however, believe that everyone or even most people function exactly like Socionics or the MBTI claim they do, so the usefulness of typology for me doesn't go far beyond what I just described. That and the absence of any major learning experiences in this area means my ability to understand people has remained at about the same level before and after my exposure to typology. If I had to assign a number to that level, it would be a rather low one. Other people are fundamentally mysterious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    before 4/10

    after 7/10
    Why do you think it improved? Similar to the above discussion, just seeing more roles and differences in others mostly, or what?
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    For example, instead of saying to myself "someone with such-and-such characteristics," I can just say "ENFp."
    So you stated pretty clearly that you use this summary for your own self, but do you also think it's useful for summarizing things while talking to other people as well? "They're ENFp" instead of listing the actual traits, I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    I think it started with MBTI, since I found that first. But I think I got into all this to figure out who I am in the world and that is why.
    I started with MBTI also…but, well, we probably all did. Did you ultimately give up on that system, or just expand your interests into Socionics? I found that neither MBTI dichotomies, nor Herald Grant's ever so popular cognitive functions, offered a system that suited me well. I'm also not sure what the hell Ni is in that system — just "knowing," so I guess all Ni Doms there are psychics that reach into the secret metaphysical pockets of the universe for answers.
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    I didn't even know people where real before socionics. I thought they were just made up so that the FBI agents online who told me to go outside could convince me that we don't live in a nuclear hellscape.
    Wait...you mean we're not all cats? But...this is the internet...

    My life is a lie
    *rocking back and forth in a corner*
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    So you stated pretty clearly that you use this summary for your own self, but do you also think it's useful for summarizing things while talking to other people as well? "They're ENFp" instead of listing the actual traits, I mean.
    No, I do not find Socionics useful for summarizing things to other people. Socionics terminology comes with too much baggage. If I say "ISFp," to someone, they're going to assume I mean a whole lot more than I really do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    How would you assess your own ability to understand people pre-typology and post-typology? For example, were you generally below average at it before, and Socionics made you better than average?
    Before I knew about typology, I think I was generally quite peeved about people who acted vastly different to me - -types I suppose you might call them. I knew I was introverted and some others were clear extroverts. I also tended to see people in terms of skills and hobbies, as well as their beliefs or other affiliations. It took me a very long time to see someone I might have regarded as similar to myself - not in terms of personality necessarily, but being able to conclude that something they were told was true was not true (I suppose whether the thing was true or not is beside the point - I mean children who were able to make such a conclusion). I would say that as an introvert, I was probably better than average at understanding people, but that my understanding was poor.

    After typology, and to this day: I think my ability is likely to be extremely high, at least compared to others. I feel like I am fairly knowledgeable about what distinguishes individuals from others after being focussed on trying the understand "the whole" (in every sense) as much as possible. I still need to try bungee-jumping and high-stakes auctioneering (both as a buyer and a seller) however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Before I knew about typology, I think I was generally quite peeved about people who acted vastly different to me - -types I suppose you might call them. I knew I was introverted and some others were clear extroverts. I also tended to see people in terms of skills and hobbies, as well as their beliefs or other affiliations. It took me a very long time to see someone I might have regarded as similar to myself - not in terms of personality necessarily, but being able to conclude that something they were told was true was not true (I suppose whether the thing was true or not is beside the point - I mean children who were able to make such a conclusion). I would say that as an introvert, I was probably better than average at understanding people, but that my understanding was poor.

    After typology, and to this day: I think my ability is likely to be extremely high, at least compared to others. I feel like I am fairly knowledgeable about what distinguishes individuals from others after being focussed on trying the understand "the whole" (in every sense) as much as possible. I still need to try bungee-jumping and high-stakes auctioneering (both as a buyer and a seller) however.
    @Subteigh, have you considered playing the drums? I know of two male EII's who do that, and they're pretty good at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Subteigh, have you considered playing the drums? I know of two male EII's who do that, and they're pretty good at it.
    I prefer melody to rhythm.

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    I am still learning.
    Before Socionics I was a lot more introverted.
    After Socionics I am learning to speak from each type’s point of view
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
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    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Before I knew about typology, I think I was generally quite peeved about people who acted vastly different to me - -types I suppose you might call them. I knew I was introverted and some others were clear extroverts. I also tended to see people in terms of skills and hobbies, as well as their beliefs or other affiliations. It took me a very long time to see someone I might have regarded as similar to myself - not in terms of personality necessarily, but being able to conclude that something they were told was true was not true (I suppose whether the thing was true or not is beside the point - I mean children who were able to make such a conclusion). I would say that as an introvert, I was probably better than average at understanding people, but that my understanding was poor.

    After typology, and to this day: I think my ability is likely to be extremely high, at least compared to others. I feel like I am fairly knowledgeable about what distinguishes individuals from others after being focussed on trying the understand "the whole" (in every sense) as much as possible. I still need to try bungee-jumping and high-stakes auctioneering (both as a buyer and a seller) however.
    Jeez, the first thing I noticed about you is that you seem very articulate. I like it. Do you read books a lot?

    I was probably better than average at understanding people, but that my understanding was poor.
    In other words, you lacked experience? Capable, but the ability was not well exercised?

    It took me a very long time to see someone I might have regarded as similar to myself - not in terms of personality necessarily, but being able to conclude that something they were told was true was not true (I suppose whether the thing was true or not is beside the point - I mean children who were able to make such a conclusion).
    I'm not quite following. Can you give a realistic and more specific example of what that looks like?



    Btw, fun typology connection: this is a pattern for me. Whenever something is phrased in a way that makes it conceptual and generalized, I struggle to see how it applies concretely. I interpret conceptual matters as being vague and having so many possible ways of being interpreted that I can get lost among (and overwhelmed by) said possibilities. A feeling similar to — not rage-quitting, but anxiety-quitting, I guess. I sort of interpret that issue as something related to Ne PoLR; N in general because of the conceptual aspect, and Ne specifically because of becoming overwhelmed by the possibilities. I sometimes need others to be more specific in order to eliminate the number of possibilities.
    @DEAD since you're figuring out whether you're LSI or SLE (maybe others I'm not aware you're considering as well), do you relate to that at all?
    Last edited by Lady Lunacy; 11-06-2021 at 03:29 AM.
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Jeez, the first thing I noticed about you is that you seem very articulate. I like it. Do you read books a lot?
    Really? I don't think I have an especially rich vocab (as one of the questions that the Neo-Pi-R Personality Test asked). Maybe I try to explain things with some elaboration if I'm going to answer at all, but it seems that here I did not respond in my post comprehensively. I do read a lot, in one way or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    In other words, you lacked experience? Capable, but the ability was not well exercised?
    I think the understanding of the average person of other people is very poor. I think knowledge may be a more appropriate word than experience, because it can be gained far quicker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    I'm not quite following. Can you give a realistic and more specific example of what that looks like?
    The main example I had in mind was that at the age of 7 or so I went from being religious to concluding that "God" most likely did not exist. In my childhood, I don't recall encountering any peers who had a similar experience, or even any who were concerned with philosophical questions generally.

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    Really helped me with personal relationships, especially with family (mother and sister LSE-EII). But, it also helped me to better understand my role in society. It has its value as a tool, but care must be taken not to turn it into dogma. After all, typologies are systematic interpretations of certain predefined elements that already exist in us. More systems will be created to try to define the human personality as a whole. So I don't believe there is a completely exact typology or anything similar, but rather an approximation. In short, it is an excellent tool if used correctly.

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    I was already adept at understanding people well before Socionics, though it has helped me better sort what I already intuited.

    Biggest enhancement is intertype relations. Can safely predict a priori who will gel with whom, and anticipate why certain attractions arise between given individuals.

    Most of the typology community ignores intertypes though.

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    Socionics has ruined me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Socionics has ruined me.

    Better socionics than drink.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Better socionics than drink.
    True. Is it though? How many moments has thinking about the moment been stolen from me by overlaying it with the Ti framework of socionics?

    Has it brought clarity, or has it made me all the more lost after 15 years?

    I think in regards to this site, its shown me that I have a lot to say, and I very little say it in real life. Maybe that's what is due next for me.

    I chalk it up to a hobby, and an art, and a habit. I'm not saying socionics is not real, I'm saying it might be time to outgrow and funny enough I've been saying that on this site for years and years. So why do I return? What is found here in these bare bones and carcasses picked over by everything until all that is left is dried, brittle calcium, rotting in the sunlight in an open field and covered with mosses?

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Socionics has ruined me.
    Something tells me it not socionics
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Something tells me it not socionics
    Take your pick. Every tree sees a summer lightening storm, or two. Many feel the cold of an over cold winter deep freeze. Nothing escapes the elements. The special ability of animals to move away is where our adaptability thrives. The tree must make do with where its seed landed, and if all turns out it can last in that spot of soil, in that unit of sunshine, and grow and thrive for hundreds of years. Damaged, or not.

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    Before socionics: People are cruel and selfish assholes. After socionics: People are cruel selfish asshole because this or that function. lol

    Even though I was saying the same thing essentially before but it just wasn't defined as well. It's kinda like always knowing what water is without intellectually breaking down the compoments that make water, water.

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    Its relatively the same. My goal has always been to understand people and see where they were coming from to empathize/sympathies and make a game plan. Typology is just another tool box in the "Understanding People Kit".

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Its relatively the same. My goal has always been to understand people and see where they were coming from to empathize/sympathies and make a game plan. Typology is just another tool box in the "Understanding People Kit".
    What are the other tools?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    What are the other tools?
    How close am I to them? What is their childhood like? Are they stressed right now? Are they being genuine? What have I don’t to effect them? What do they like? What do they dislike? What environment do they need? How can I cheer them up? Do I feel comfortable around them? Do I make them comfortable? Do they like me? Is it better to keep distance? Intentions? Plans? What do they Need? Boundaries? Etc etc etc…

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    Before: 1.5, After: 3.8.

    Again, i really just studied it for mental stimulation, although psychology and some human differences have also disturbed me more than I naturally am.
    I'm not only psychologically disturbed, I'm also QueeferSutherlandJeffersonianSecessionist87@sucksd ick.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Btw, fun typology connection: this is a pattern for me. Whenever something is phrased in a way that makes it conceptual and generalized, I struggle to see how it applies concretely. I interpret conceptual matters as being vague and having so many possible ways of being interpreted that I can get lost among (and overwhelmed by) said possibilities. A feeling similar to — not rage-quitting, but anxiety-quitting, I guess. I sort of interpret that issue as something related to Ne PoLR; N in general because of the conceptual aspect, and Ne specifically because of becoming overwhelmed by the possibilities. I sometimes need others to be more specific in order to eliminate the number of possibilities.
    @DEAD since you're figuring out whether you're LSI or SLE (maybe others I'm not aware you're considering as well), do you relate to that at all?




    I think that one of the main issues for me, actually, isn't in not understanding the theory or being logical/making sense of it, but in conceptualization. I think that, because the theory is very Alpha NT related in general, it can be hard for some people to separate PoLR Ne from just "not getting it" (same, to an extent with PoLR Ti). I think that not getting it from a conceptual level is very different from not getting it logically. But yeah, when there are too many options, it does get confusing at times.

    As I said on Discord, it takes time to wade through the crap and pick out the gems too. You have to fill in the blanks, tweak things and make them fit the best you can. I think it does get overwhelming at times with the other options and multiple interpretations of the theory, but I think that if you make sense of what is already there, in terms of the information for the theory, then you should be fine.

    Yeah, being specific definitely helps as well, in narrowing down interpretations for the sake of accuracy and understanding. I am very direct, though, and I like to simplify things and ensure they are simplified when I am explaining things. I say that "if you can't explain something to a five year old properly, then you're not understanding it enough yourself". I think that Alpha NT tend to complicate things at times with their Ne instead of narrowing them down to what they should be. It is a problem for many strong Se types, IMO, due to naturally low Ne.

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    My own ability has increased, but it wasn't really because of Socionics. I use psychology, which is a science rather than a pseudoscience like Socionics. My ability has increased because of time, experience, psychological education, and other things outside of Socionics.

    When you understand psychology, you see the entire world so much differently. Music, family get-togethers, shows/movies, news, people you pass by in the store, everything; nothing is the same as it once was. That's a good thing, even if it can make you cynical.
    Showing only bits and pieces
    'Till the light betrays you and your empty elocution
    Searching your eyes for a hint or a trace of humility
    Searching your eyes for the saint is an act of futility

    You're deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into the heart
    Still deceived by inner demons that were fed by your own hand
    Shaded veils hide your perception, shooting nails into your head

    The blood that runs within my veins
    Keeps me from ever ending up the same
    The fire that's pushing me on and on and on
    To me it's everything and it makes me fucking strong

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    Below average then, below average now. The difference is just an acceptance of people having fundamentally different priorities - instead of trying and failing to appease everyone, it saves wasted energy to bulldoze past the ones that cause an impasse.

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