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Thread: ILE & LII disliking each other

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    Default ILE & LII disliking each other

    I've heard some ILE & LII say shitty things about the other. I've heard mirror relationships are competitive and, certainly, LII & ILE may compete in similar intellectual interests. Does anyone here read or hear about an ILE & LII communicating unnecessarily nasty about the other

    For example, one LII will enthusiastically accuse an ILE of being desperately attention seeking when, in reality, the LII could be accused of the exact same behavior.

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    I can get along with LII's well enough, but I'd call it the most baseline relationship, in the sense that it's, more so than other relationships, dependent on the non-socionical traits and beliefs of each person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    I can get along with LII's well enough, but I'd call it the most baseline relationship, in the sense that it's, more so than other relationships, dependent on the non-socionical traits and beliefs of each person.
    That's understandable. I will not speak for all ILE-LII interactions but, from my perspective, it is the least amicable of all mirror interactions I've heard. Mirror relations are interquadra so I'd, at least, assume there'd be a certain level of understanding and camaraderie between the mirrors. It speaks to, perhaps, that not all mirror relationships are equal. Maybe not all quasi-ids are equal.

    Good point, though. I'm interested in why ILE-LII are particularly contentious. Is there jealousy? Is it competitiveness? Are ILE-LII natural debaters inclined to just pick at each other's behavior?

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    I don't have anything at all against ILEs as a type, personally. I've had a few ILE friends and have always thought I get along with them particularly well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Good point, though. I'm interested in why ILE-LII are particularly contentious. Is there jealousy? Is it competitiveness? Are ILE-LII natural debaters inclined to just pick at each other's behavior?
    Naw in my experience it's just generally been a lack of care from either person to really maintain the relationship. or other things just making the other person somewhat annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Naw in my experience it's just generally been a lack of care from either person to really maintain the relationship. or other things just making the other person somewhat annoying.
    Tbh, most of the ILE-LII interactions are not exactly relationships as they are acquaintances. Annoyance was my first suspicion but I didn't want to draw a conclusion based only on my own analysis.

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    Uhhhh I've had a few "friends" who were LII or suspiciously logical EII. I think the problem with LII is mistaking the superficial, occasional sociability of ILE with the natural constant sociability of Fe leads. Likewise ILE might mistake the occasional Si and willingness to listen from LII for a Si lead. I honestly have no complaints as an ILE. But as a perceiving + positivist + Fi-polr type you don't really notice that something is "wrong" with the relationship. Usually LII gets fed up after a while.
    I think LII and ILE sort of understand each other being NT weirdos but there are things that just don't match up. The IJ/EP difference being the most important incompatibility.

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    This is a mirror relationship and I gotta say that the LIE's I've encountered in my life, while few, were folks I generally got along with. I didn't really dislike them, I just had a subtle disagreement with them in regards to their priorities and how they sought to solve their problems. I wasn't them, but they were coming at the same problem from angles very similar to my own. I liked that, but it really was like looking into a mirror. I raise my right hand and they raise their left. They're so much like me, yet also very different. What frustration I experienced was because they seemed to "get it" yet ultimately didn't from my end. They were so frustratingly close damnit!

    It always felt like we needed someone else to really make a major breakthrough and that all we provided each other was a subtle variation/interpretation of the problem. If we could have brought in an ESI or SEE it likely would have gone fare smoother. And hey, one of us would have met their dual and as a dude I can say that we're happy if our bro is "getting some" even if we ain't at the time. I wonder if that's a uniquely gamma sentiment or if it has an Alpha-Quadra equivalent...

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    And hey, one of us would have met their dual and as a dude I can say that we're happy if our bro is "getting some" even if we ain't at the time. I wonder if that's a uniquely gamma sentiment or if it has an Alpha-Quadra equivalent...
    I would say that's just being a friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Banana King View Post
    I think the problem with LII is mistaking the superficial, occasional sociability of ILE with the natural constant sociability of Fe leads.
    Myr called me enthusiastic after she heard my voice. Yeah, it does not entail all the aspects of extroversion.
    I also met one LII (who probably had hit his head badly and became a missionary - yeah I wouldn't buy it either but what the hell let's call it a miracle) said that I must have large social circles on top of being buried in science books.
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    Well first off saying shitty things about somebody isn't always the be-end of anything or a sign that things can't improve - it can prove that you care enough for the person or the relationship to change. Fake generic niceness, or business-like politeness is often usually a deeper sign of contempt for people. Or treating them like some sort of cold transaction from my Te polr perspective. =p

    I haven't seen ILEs and LIIs interacting much with each other, but I know they often think alike because they both have scolded me before for the exact same stuff lol. Yeah both can be insufferable know it alls because both are thinking types but obviously ILE is very much an attention seeking whore compared to LII. ILE is more 'let's argue about it' whereas LII is 'fuck off I know I'm right' cuz the clear introverted energy is more obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    Well first off saying shitty things about somebody isn't always the be-end of anything or a sign that things can't improve - it can prove that you care enough for the person or the relationship to change. Fake generic niceness, or business-like politeness is often usually a deeper sign of contempt for people. Or treating them like some sort of cold transaction from my Te polr perspective. =p

    I haven't seen ILEs and LIIs interacting much with each other, but I know they often think alike because they both have scolded me before for the exact same stuff lol. Yeah both can be insufferable know it alls because both are thinking types but obviously ILE is very much an attention seeking whore compared to LII. ILE is more 'let's argue about it' whereas LII is 'fuck off I know I'm right' cuz the clear introverted energy is more obvious.

    Sort of like Winnie the Pooh accusing Bugs Bunny of being a nudist.

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    I have disliked a couple of ILEs for different reasons, but being in sales is the primary one

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    So, the personal problem I do have with ILEs is that, they often go out of tangents in their way to talk of things thoroughly, too spontaneous and that jerk kind of attitude due to their way to debate almost everything that they perceive. While I really don't think I should mind it at all, they often go out-of-the-box with their thought without considering whether something works or doesn't while not trying to explain things but just compelling themselves to show their interest. And jealousy? Not really, just competition as a part of friendship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philotheist View Post
    So, the personal problem I do have with ILEs is that, they often go out of tangents in their way to talk of things thoroughly, too spontaneous and that jerk kind of attitude due to their way to debate almost everything that they perceive. While I really don't think I should mind it at all, they often go out-of-the-box with their thought without considering whether something works or doesn't while not trying to explain things but just compelling themselves to show their interest. And jealousy? Not really, just competition as a part of friendship.
    I heard an ideology suggesting Ne-doms consider the practicality and/or whether a particular idea is helpful prior to the idea's indulgence.

    In other words, if the idea doesn't help people or make anybody's life better keep the shitty idea to yourself.

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    I have also seen the thing with ILE and LII, with them being overly critical of each other. Like an ILE thinking that the LIIs theories are all wrong / narrow-minded, because they didn't include a particular idea which the ILE considers essential, etc.

    In some other discussions, users on this forum have suggested to me that Gulenko's cognitive styles might play a role when interacting with other types, because I had continuous problems with certain types which are not really explained anywhere else and where socionics would predict a better outcome. According to this, mirror types such as ILE and LII have cognitive styles which are not compatible with each other (sharing the cognitive style of their conflictor). I personally find this explanation very useful, but I'm not entirely sure to what degree exactly it would apply also to mirror types (as they share so many other traits in common, they might have better understanding, even if they think and approach things differently.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lynn View Post
    I have also seen the thing with ILE and LII, with them being overly critical of each other. Like an ILE thinking that the LIIs theories are all wrong / narrow-minded, because they didn't include a particular idea which the ILE considers essential, etc.

    In some other discussions, users on this forum have suggested to me that Gulenko's cognitive styles might play a role when interacting with other types, because I had continuous problems with certain types which are not really explained anywhere else and where socionics would predict a better outcome. According to this, mirror types such as ILE and LII have cognitive styles which are not compatible with each other (sharing the cognitive style of their conflictor). I personally find this explanation very useful, but I'm not entirely sure to what degree exactly it would apply also to mirror types (as they share so many other traits in common, they might have better understanding, even if they think and approach things differently.)
    I have seen an LIE and an ILI interact in the same company. The ILI keeps saying, "I know more than anyone! I never make mistakes!" Basically, "I have value but I'm not appreciated."

    The LIE in turn says "Yes, everyone knows that you are a genius. But please stop talking about yourself all the time and we're going to ask some other people to review your work." Because the ILI drills down but misses the obvious.

    The ILI sees this as evidence that he isn't appreciated, nor taken to be an authority on complex planning.

    It's kind of horrible to see.

    On the other hand, I've seen the LIE interact perfectly with an ESI, and the ILI interact very well with an SEE. So it's not the people, it's the ITRs.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-04-2022 at 10:06 PM.

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    It would make sense that they don't get along well at all (although I would think LII-Ne would get along pretty average with ILE-Ti, and LII-Ti would get along pretty average with ILE-Ti; but LII-Ti would not do well at all with ILE-Ti). LII can be inflexible and not like a lot of interruptions or changes in plans while ILE are a bit too random for LII. And as others pointed out, LII's theories often look non-sensical because they leave essential or very important details out and have to keep amending them... that annoys people who like details and ILE-Ti often like details (which is why I tend to get extremely annoyed with LIIs as well). I tend to find LII rather annoying because they come up with all these plans or suggestions, but they're imprecise and they can be pretty unwilling to try something that didn't come from their own mind. ILE are more open-minded and process a lot more details (and value them) than LII.

    I would also think, though, that compared to other duals, two ILE-Ti wouldn't get along all that great with each other.. a lot of them don't like surprises even if there is something beautiful about them, having their space violated, ADHD-style errors, etc., etc. Two LSI often don't get along all that great because of what makes sense to them and wanting to be free from control based upon what they think is the wisest; just like SLE and SEE don't get along with each other because they both like being the leader and not being controlled. 2 IEE wouldn't get along great with each other because of their mood swings and opinions. EIE-Fe tend to get along great with each other though... I would think dynamic types would have less problems with each other than statics would with each other.

    Not sure of my type, but I usually find LSI-Se pretty easy to get along with... i had some problems here and there, but generally they're easy to get along with they don't need much control over other people. LSI-Ti are more difficult to get along with, for me anyway.
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    ILEs tend to be cool with each other so I'd say ILEs probably just dislike the LIIs use of Ne. The ILEs I've listened to say that LIIs aren't as clever as they think they are & that the ideas LIIs indulge in are moronic. That particular assessment tells me that those ILEs believe that LIIs are actually very different from themselves on a psychological basis

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    NTs historically don't like each other. It's a time honored tradition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    ILEs tend to be cool with each other so I'd say ILEs probably just dislike the LIIs use of Ne. The ILEs I've listened to say that LIIs aren't as clever as they think they are & that the ideas LIIs indulge in are moronic. That particular assessment tells me that those ILEs believe that LIIs are actually very different from themselves on a psychological basis
    This may apply to how an LIE may disapprove of an ILI's methods as this basically amounts to the same thing given how this is a "mirror" relation. Attempting to "slave" to is simply not going to work. Similar decision axis, but not identical. / does what it does and while / is similar it ain't the same.

    I wouldn't say mirror's are all that different however. Both can readily get and understand the other side. I think the real point of contention comes from what they're willing to let slide in many a way the theories on this site and this field say we would. ILI's, for instance, are obstinate. I may disdain my mirror's yielding attitude, but I both understand and get it.

    Still not giving up my values though....

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    This may apply to how an LIE may disapprove of an ILI's methods as this basically amounts to the same thing given how this is a "mirror" relation. Attempting to "slave" to is simply not going to work. Similar decision axis, but not identical. / does what it does and while / is similar it ain't the same.

    I wouldn't say mirror's are all that different however. Both can readily get and understand the other side. I think the real point of contention comes from what they're willing to let slide in many a way the theories on this site and this field say we would. ILI's, for instance, are obstinate. I may disdain my mirror's yielding attitude, but I both understand and get it.

    Still not giving up my values though....
    Interesting opinion, indeed

    Some say the lead function is a sort of "hero" function, the way one ultimately helps or maybe rescues other people. The creative function actually balances the ego and is also used to comfort or nurture others

    An ILE may use their Ne lead function to help bring aid to a country suffering from hunger, while an LII might use their creative Ne to make others laugh in a comedy club.

    I hear you, though for sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    ILEs tend to be cool with each other so I'd say ILEs probably just dislike the LIIs use of Ne. The ILEs I've listened to say that LIIs aren't as clever as they think they are & that the ideas LIIs indulge in are moronic. That particular assessment tells me that those ILEs believe that LIIs are actually very different from themselves on a psychological basis
    LIIs have a tendency to state things too rigidly. Myself included. Ti egos probably find that a bit annoying in general (I find it annoying in other LIIs and in memories of myself). But I'm curious what exactly the ideas are the ILEs you've been talking to object to. I admit ILEs' ability with Ne exceeds mine, and I guess I can see how they could might down on me for having less ability with it, but I think I generally "get" them and when I talk to them I always have an idea of where they're coming from. I would be surprised if it weren't the same on the other end as well, and I've always thought I've gotten along with them generally well, so I'm surprised the ILEs you've known have seemed to dislike LIIs so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    LIIs have a tendency to state things too rigidly. Myself included. Ti egos probably find that a bit annoying in general (I find it annoying in other LIIs and in memories of myself). But I'm curious what exactly the ideas are the ILEs you've been talking to object to. I admit ILEs' ability with Ne exceeds mine, and I guess I can see how they could might down on me for having less ability with it, but I think I generally "get" them and when I talk to them I always have an idea of where they're coming from. I would be surprised if it weren't the same on the other end as well, and I've always thought I've gotten along with them generally well, so I'm surprised the ILEs you've known have seemed to dislike LIIs so much.
    ILEs say that whenever an LIIs come up with some "revolutionary" idea that they think they are re-inventing the wheel. LIIs, in my opinion, use their Ne function to communicate within the context of an Si-creative's understanding, while ILEs use their Ne to support an SEIs extreme, sort of, practicality

    When SEIs use Si, it differs from an ESEs more open minded use if it. An SEIs lead Si is their program, their routine and, generally, their way of life. It is a tool of responsibility that they believe is used to serve society around them

    ILEs who dislike LIIs probably aren't being fair. Lead Ne and creative Ne seem to have psychological different purposes and that could be ultimately why ILEs dislike LIIs

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    One's rational. The other one's irrational.

    One has cause-effect cognition. The other has holographic panoramic cognition.

    One has cold communication. The other has business-like communication.

    They're also mirror relations, and what irritates us about others can bring us to a closer understanding of ourselves. Essentially, they're similar enough to be reminded of their own shortcomings in each other.
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    I've been close with a lot of ILEs. I think it's not nearly as contentious as other mirror pairs like LSI-SLE or IEI-EIE but there are always other factors that could influence the relationship.

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    In my Discord gaming group composed of my friends back home we've got: IEI (me), ENTp (x2), INTj, ISTj, ENFp, ISFp, ENTj

    I haven't seen the INTj and either of the two ENTps ever really having much of a problem with each other. The INTj occasionally conflicts with the ENFp (his brother), and the ISTj has a tendency to blame things going wrong in the game on the INTj when he gets frustrated for some reason, but I don't feel like the INTj himself does much to earn that. I feel like the ISTj is just jealously possessive of me and gets irritated if I agree with the INTj too much. The ISTj has been my friend the longest as far as people I'm not related to go, but the INTj is my cousin who I've known all my life. The ISTj has always struggled making friends so I think he just tends to feel insecure about that sort of thing. I find it interesting that according to the INTj they never conflict at all when I'm not there.

    The group really formed around me because I collect people on the fringes. Myself, my ENTp brother, the INTj cousin, and his ENFp brother all grew up homeschooled in a very insular sort of family. I brought the ISTj and ENTp into the group because neither of them had any friends and I thought it would be good for them. Later the ENFp brought the ISFp into the fold because the ISFp was also from a homeschooled Christian family and was dealing with backlash because he came out as gay to his family. I don't think the ISFp is a big fan of my ISTj and ENTp friends, but I get along fine with him and he still hangs out with us. The ENTj started joining us more recently as he was someone I sort of met off and on multiple times all throughout my life. We just kept reencountering each other, and the pandemic led to us hanging out on Discord more and eventually I invited him to the group. He lives alone far away from everyone else, working for a network security company and I get the impression he doesn't have a ton of friends aside from us either.

    I like that I've managed to form a group from all these otherwise somewhat isolated people because I am very invested in everyone's mental and emotional health, but sometimes I need time to myself and I feel like more and more they're able to rely on each other instead of all just coming to me with everything.

    I've always had this tendency of attracting loner misfits, but I have to be a little careful inviting people to the inner group because they don't all have the same tolerance for new people that I do, and the more right leaning members have a tendency of sharing some... interesting takes... so I feel like I sort of have to subject new "candidates" to a series of tests to see if they'd be a good fit or not without them even knowing this group exists. It's very weird, I know, but it's the pattern I've fallen into and it seems to be working. Everyone seems to have gotten at least moderately comfortable with each other and have been relying on the group during these very isolating last few years, and some of the more out there political takes have been moderated down a few levels.

    My life is weird. Sorry for the tangent lol
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    One of the best friend i ever had and i spent most time with was an ILE.

    Our real main activity was basketball but we talk about lots of things.

    The competitive aspect is there, i remember specially playing against each other i didn't had this with anyone else, score get tight we both start smiling and no one want to lose. It's funny cause i believe he was always better than me but still it was felt. When it's close he most of the times end up winning. I believe SE role help him in those situations but maybe im reaching.

    It was even visible to outsider, i remember we played and weren't on same team. I checked him up and he started going at me really hard all of a sudden, i came with the same energy aswell defending him, i always tried harder on him tbh and it was intense for just this quick moment there was a silence and a guy clapped his hands and shouted "love it the little rivalry between the two". It had to do that, we know each other game ig and how we think.

    One interesting thing i noticed when one of us is really struggling we started supporting each other.

    For example I remember sometimes he was starting to miss lots of shots and i would tell him to keep shooting and i was doing everything i can to put him in the best condition possible try to help him regain confidence, i start praising him . He couldn't understand and told me no he should pass more and stop when he is playing like that.

    At some point he was really good and peoples were praising him but i was criticizing his game saying he was not as good. I don't think i was hating, peoples were starting to say he was better than someone i know he was not and peoples regonized later i was right but ig i could've let him get his moment.

    Same for him when i had good games, he would told me i played like shit. I seriously couldn't tell if he was joking i was laughing.

    And when i felt like i played shit, he'll come and tell me i played good. I couldn't understand and told him "how?" just like he couldn't understand why i was telling him to keep shooting when he felt like he was shit.


    Saw someone post about that LII-NE and ILE-TI get along better.

    Idk if that make me an LII-NE but i was doing most of the talking when together i was specially really goofy the first year. He asked lot of questions and have no problem just listening i felt like i was the one not listening enough sometimes.

    Still saw how he was more social than me and have harder time keeping in place it was only when we are together.

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    About the attention seeking remind me of something.

    One time there was a play i was not sure if he fouled someone on my team i just told the guy. " If you get fouled call them" my ILE friend took it personally and said he didn't fouled him, i responded that i didn't said you did just that the guy call foul he feels like there is one. It escalated he was visibly not happy some people wanted to stop the game to talk about it with him and know what's wrong cause he stopped playing . I said no that he is just seeking attention. Cause he had this behavior where all of sudden he get cold for no reason sometimes and he is like angry depressed and impossible to communicate with him, its really sudden, it helped me regonize he is ILE reading the description cause that was really his special thing, but at the time it was hard to explain for me still i think deep down ik it wasn't as simple. Anyway i said no we should keep playing and i ignored him and we kept playing he left and came home. We didn't talk for the week and the weekend i connected on my Playstation he told to come play with him and we acted like this never happened.

    For me well trouble maintaining relationships not messaging other enough sometimes ghosting people and disappearing, even a bit paranoid thinking people don't really care when they message me . He accused me of acting like a star to explain why it's so hard to reach me sometimes and he might be right it seems like i was seeking FE at times or idk im not really sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    It would make sense that they don't get along well at all (although I would think LII-Ne would get along pretty average with ILE-Ti, and LII-Ti would get along pretty average with ILE-Ti; but LII-Ti would not do well at all with ILE-Ti). LII can be inflexible and not like a lot of interruptions or changes in plans while ILE are a bit too random for LII. And as others pointed out, LII's theories often look non-sensical because they leave essential or very important details out and have to keep amending them... that annoys people who like details and ILE-Ti often like details (which is why I tend to get extremely annoyed with LIIs as well). I tend to find LII rather annoying because they come up with all these plans or suggestions, but they're imprecise and they can be pretty unwilling to try something that didn't come from their own mind. ILE are more open-minded and process a lot more details (and value them) than LII.

    I would also think, though, that compared to other duals, two ILE-Ti wouldn't get along all that great with each other.. a lot of them don't like surprises even if there is something beautiful about them, having their space violated, ADHD-style errors, etc., etc. Two LSI often don't get along all that great because of what makes sense to them and wanting to be free from control based upon what they think is the wisest; just like SLE and SEE don't get along with each other because they both like being the leader and not being controlled. 2 IEE wouldn't get along great with each other because of their mood swings and opinions. EIE-Fe tend to get along great with each other though... I would think dynamic types would have less problems with each other than statics would with each other.

    Not sure of my type, but I usually find LSI-Se pretty easy to get along with... i had some problems here and there, but generally they're easy to get along with they don't need much control over other people. LSI-Ti are more difficult to get along with, for me anyway.
    Can confirm and you might also helping me confirm he was an ILE- TI. He was better than me at noticing the details, i left out important details sometimes and my theory were nonsense. Unwilling to try other idea i can see it too i think but it's less pronounced but ye compared to the suggestions i make, i don't always have the same enthusiasm when it's other. The detail thing is spot on i praised him multiple times on how he is able notice certain things i missed and how he never miss anything.

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    Off topic but had a SLE friend playing on 1v1 was also competitive but it was too intense and just straight up toxic with him. He make it like that on purpose he know how to get to you, he cheat, use all the dirty trick to win. Losing vs him is more painful cause he creates this intense atmosphere so well.

    Maybe im biased cause SE polr perspective

    But sometimes it ended in fight with others. We litteraly had to ask people to referee his game cause there was always disagreements and no one trust each other in those situations where there is too much at stake. It was comical sometimes he was the only one i ever see where there was referee needed for a simple 1v1.

    With the ILE even if it's competitive, if i call foul he might try to disagree a bit cause he obviously don't want to lose when it get close but he ll give it to me cause he trust me and same for me there is this fair-play. After the game even if disappointed it's all smile too its not the same competitiveness .

    With the SLE you are crushed and you hate his guts at the end if you lose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broken LII View Post
    One of the best friend i ever had and i spent most time with was an ILE.

    Our real main activity was basketball but we talk about lots of things.

    The competitive aspect is there, i remember specially playing against each other i didn't had this with anyone else, score get tight we both start smiling and no one want to lose. It's funny cause i believe he was always better than me but still it was felt. When it's close he most of the times end up winning. I believe SE role help him in those situations but maybe im reaching.

    It was even visible to outsider, i remember we played and weren't on same team. I checked him up and he started going at me really hard all of a sudden, i came with the same energy aswell defending him, i always tried harder on him tbh and it was intense for just this quick moment there was a silence and a guy clapped his hands and shouted "love it the little rivalry between the two". It had to do that, we know each other game ig and how we think.

    One interesting thing i noticed when one of us is really struggling we started supporting each other.

    For example I remember sometimes he was starting to miss lots of shots and i would tell him to keep shooting and i was doing everything i can to put him in the best condition possible try to help him regain confidence, i start praising him . He couldn't understand and told me no he should pass more and stop when he is playing like that.

    At some point he was really good and peoples were praising him but i was criticizing his game saying he was not as good. I don't think i was hating, peoples were starting to say he was better than someone i know he was not and peoples regonized later i was right but ig i could've let him get his moment.

    Same for him when i had good games, he would told me i played like shit. I seriously couldn't tell if he was joking i was laughing.

    And when i felt like i played shit, he'll come and tell me i played good. I couldn't understand and told him "how?" just like he couldn't understand why i was telling him to keep shooting when he felt like he was shit.


    Saw someone post about that LII-NE and ILE-TI get along better.

    Idk if that make me an LII-NE but i was doing most of the talking when together i was specially really goofy the first year. He asked lot of questions and have no problem just listening i felt like i was the one not listening enough sometimes.

    Still saw how he was more social than me and have harder time keeping in place it was only when we are together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broken LII View Post
    One of the best friend i ever had and i spent most time with was an ILE.

    Our real main activity was basketball but we talk about lots of things.

    The competitive aspect is there, i remember specially playing against each other i didn't had this with anyone else, score get tight we both start smiling and no one want to lose. It's funny cause i believe he was always better than me but still it was felt. When it's close he most of the times end up winning. I believe SE role help him in those situations but maybe im reaching.

    It was even visible to outsider, i remember we played and weren't on same team. I checked him up and he started going at me really hard all of a sudden, i came with the same energy aswell defending him, i always tried harder on him tbh and it was intense for just this quick moment there was a silence and a guy clapped his hands and shouted "love it the little rivalry between the two". It had to do that, we know each other game ig and how we think.

    One interesting thing i noticed when one of us is really struggling we started supporting each other.

    For example I remember sometimes he was starting to miss lots of shots and i would tell him to keep shooting and i was doing everything i can to put him in the best condition possible try to help him regain confidence, i start praising him . He couldn't understand and told me no he should pass more and stop when he is playing like that.

    At some point he was really good and peoples were praising him but i was criticizing his game saying he was not as good. I don't think i was hating, peoples were starting to say he was better than someone i know he was not and peoples regonized later i was right but ig i could've let him get his moment.

    Same for him when i had good games, he would told me i played like shit. I seriously couldn't tell if he was joking i was laughing.

    And when i felt like i played shit, he'll come and tell me i played good. I couldn't understand and told him "how?" just like he couldn't understand why i was telling him to keep shooting when he felt like he was shit.


    Saw someone post about that LII-NE and ILE-TI get along better.

    Idk if that make me an LII-NE but i was doing most of the talking when together i was specially really goofy the first year. He asked lot of questions and have no problem just listening i felt like i was the one not listening enough sometimes.

    Still saw how he was more social than me and have harder time keeping in place it was only when we are together.
    In my opinion, the social connection is maximized through the other person's subtype. For example, an LII-Ne would use his/her Ti to socially connect with an ILE-Ti and that same LII-Ne would use his/her Ne to connect with an ILE-Ne.

    In other words, the best way for ILEs and LIIs to get along might be to well versed in both of their ego functions. I'm def not saying it would ever be the best relations but this forum kinda seems be like a decent opportunity to share interesting social opinions on the matter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    For example, one LII will enthusiastically accuse an ILE of being desperately attention seeking when, in reality, the LII could be accused of the exact same behavior.
    I'm more inclined to think this is mistype and conflicting quadras. There are tons of IEEs mistyped as ILEs, also there are tons of ILI mistyped as LII

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincatrope View Post
    I'm more inclined to think this is mistype and conflicting quadras. There are tons of IEEs mistyped as ILEs, also there are tons of ILI mistyped as LII
    You can be inclined all you like but I didn't mistyped and you have absolutely no proof that I did.

    Mistyping does happen, you are correct in that regard, but not in this particular scenario

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    The last ILE I was acquainted with pretended he had a girlfriend and that he could drive, just to try and impress me. An ILE I actually know literally wrecked her car and has minor brain damage because Ne Base types should never be behind the wheel of a vehicle in the first place.

    It depends on the individual, but I think ILEs are generally disliked by their own quadra unless their victim gaslights themself into making the ITR better than it actually is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    The last ILE I was acquainted with pretended he had a girlfriend and that he could drive, just to try and impress me. An ILE I actually know literally wrecked her car and has minor brain damage because Ne Base types should never be behind the wheel of a vehicle in the first place.

    It depends on the individual, but I think ILEs are generally disliked by their own quadra unless their victim gaslights themself into making the ITR better than it actually is.
    My ILE son and I don't lie. His last girlfriend looked exactly like Ana de Armas. I think you should get your head checked...

    I'm a great driver...

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    I'm a great driver...
    I do believe it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    I do believe it.
    Do I need to send you a picture of Mia?She's half Mexican half Euroamerican. She broke my son's heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    The last ILE I was acquainted with pretended he had a girlfriend and that he could drive, just to try and impress me. An ILE I actually know literally wrecked her car and has minor brain damage because Ne Base types should never be behind the wheel of a vehicle in the first place.

    It depends on the individual, but I think ILEs are generally disliked by their own quadra unless their victim gaslights themself into making the ITR better than it actually is.
    So I guess if you're in trouble, you'll wait for an ambulance driver who isn't an Ne lead

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