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Thread: Illusionary relations have healing qualities?

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    Default Illusionary relations have healing qualities?

    I was wondering if anyone feels this way about their illusionary partner. I have known a couple of ILEs in the past but have only recently become close to one. He feels very important to me. He is a lot younger than me, same age roughly as my youngest LSI sibling. However he’s mature for his age. I also think the guy/gal dynamic is nice. I have met his gf and friends and we go to the same music event together. It’s easy to talk to a background of lovely music.


    We can have great discussions and share similar interests but what I like most is that we can comfortably talk about being sad or feeling a bit lost and I feel like we know what each other means. It makes me feel like someone understands, I’m not alone and I have someone to share this part of me with. Also I think that maybe we can offer each other some suggestions for how to deal with these thoughts or talk romantically about life to cheer each other up. Maybe it’s just that we really get on too and it’s not only type-related.


    I know duals may have healing qualities but for this post I’m more interested in illusionary or maybe other types. Or how other types have healing qualities that are different to those of duals..I think maybe mirrors can have this effect too? Maybe ESE for me too but in a slightly different way.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I know duals may have healing qualities but for this post I’m more interested in illusionary or maybe other types. Or how other types have healing qualities that are different to those of duals..
    I think identical is good. Similar areas of interest so you can learn from each other, and similar problems so you can both start working on them. Feeling of being understood.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    ILE-IEI mirage can be very nice (though arguably very dependent on the variations of ILE/IEI's). To the extent that I can have close relations, it's only been through an IEI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    ILE-IEI mirage can be very nice (though arguably very dependent on the variations of ILE/IEI's). To the extent that I can have close relations, it's only been through an IEI.
    Ive noticed a lot of IEI‘s and ILE’s end up together. There seems to always be a bond that I can’t put my finger on that just works. But I can be that way with SLE’s too. But more on a platonic scale.

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    Illusionary works particularly well with ILE-IEI because there is a lot of common ground between the types. Unlike ILE/SEI or IEI/SLE. I feel ILE is a type that doesn't relate to others based on their personality or whether they "like" them (Fi-POLR), they relate to people according to their interests (Ne). And so the attraction to IEI with common interests is immediate. The problem happens later on during interaction (as with all illusionary relations). Neither person can "lower their guard" so they end up using their role functions like half of the time.
    Probably the cool thing about IEI is never running out of things to talk or joke about. It's similar to ILE/ILE, talking for hours and hours and constant joking, but the dynamic and atmosphere is different, I guess because of Ti and Fe. Other members of Alpha quadra get a bit tired of talking after a while. But basically talking is the extent to which the interaction is pleasant. Getting things done is impossible This IEI guy was often in my group assignments in college and he was SO fucking lazy. He was really smart but lazy as hell so I can only imagine some SLE being all sergeant with him to get him to do his job.

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    Illusionary relationships can work, sure. I don't think they have any personal growth or healing opportunities compared to a dual relationship or even activity.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Yes IEI's-ILE's are very common actually.
    You both are intuitives, sharing the same Ti/Fe function, what's not to like haha.
    But they say in a long term mirage will be a bit boring, and not too good in doing projects together. Not sure about this, I didn't marry an LSI, but I dated an LSI before and currently seeing one, they're one of my favourite persons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    We can have great discussions and share similar interests but what I like most is that we can comfortably talk about being sad or feeling a bit lost and I feel like we know what each other means. It makes me feel like someone understands, I’m not alone and I have someone to share this part of me with. Also I think that maybe we can offer each other some suggestions for how to deal with these thoughts or talk romantically about life to cheer each other up. Maybe it’s just that we really get on too and it’s not only type-related.
    Yes I can relate to this when I'm with an LSI.
    Last edited by Scarlett; 10-22-2021 at 08:42 AM.

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    @The Banana King Yes, my ILE friend 'discovered me' in a crowd dancing to his fave dj lol. Later on he told me that he thought I just looked 'so happy' haha. It's useful knowing about socionics because if we have any problems I can point him in that direction (of course I have told him about it too). I think the age gap helps- he is young, idealistic, sensitive and I am older and appreciate being around someone fun, intelligent, creative and full of life.

    Hm I think I have met a couple of ILEs in the past who could have been boyfriend material, they came across as 'wise' or 'stoic', also fun lol. I think these relationship could work out well, if both people decide they want to be together/be there for each other. You would just need to come up with a plan for getting things done And maybe give each other space.

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    I think even if I were to date a dual I would really appreciate having my ILE friend around. Similar to how my I find my semi-dual inspiring, I find my illusionary partner is someone who makes me feel like I can overcome personal battles and feel part of something bigger than me and my problems. I'm sure for a lot of people with dual partners eventually feel the need to form strong friendships with other types. If you have a secure relationship with your dual it's nice to think you could form important platonic relationships with non duals. It might be harder to form a platonic relationship with a dual if you're in a non dual relationship but there are plenty of other types. Illusionary seems like one that can have a nice platonic feel but a deep connection (for me with ILEs/ this specific friend at least).

    Another thing..I know it's important for me to find SEI friends too wherever I can..there is something dual like about them for me, just being next to them is a warm rush of energy and peace.

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    Agree.
    I have one ESI close friend, and I remember correctly the first time I met him I literally ignored him. I really don't like his inferior-Te.
    But after we meet a few times I realise deep down he's the only person who understands me, and he always comes to me for advice every time he argues with his girlfriend. Haha. He's dating an IEI, my IEI close friend.
    So yeah we get along really well after a while, not instantly like with my illusionary or activity. But being around your dual does give you different kind of energy, you just feel happy and excited and optimistic "he got my back" haha.
    So yes, it's important to find dual friends too.

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    There's a reason they're called mirage or, deceptive like-mindedness. They are also your dual's look-a-like for a reason. Your mirage skillfully looks after your polr, which (unlike your DS function) you haven't the mental energy to really deal with.

    The issue with mirage are the quadral differences. According to theory, Alphas "reflect & enjoy" while Betas "achieve & indulge". In this way, you will certainly prefer your dual's social manner.

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    I absolutely hate my mirage partners. I've suffered from s*xual assault from the male IEEs I've been involved with and betrayal/backstabbing from the IEE women I've tried to befriend. No offense to anyone this is just my experience. It never works out, and I'm too jaded to go through the motions of "hoping for better and trying again" cycle that is mirage relations. I keep my distance.

    There's a new IEE girl in my class and I get exhausted when she talks to me. Her mere presence bothers me, worse than my conflict partner teacher (who actually makes me laugh, but I can tell she doesn't like me and we should keep far from each other). Everything I can't stand about the new girl has to do with her poor Se. She steps on my feet, bumps into me, gets too close for comfort when speaking, forgets to wear deodorant, and is sloppy and childish. I hate the negativist "insult you as foreplay" thing they do and how they have no regard for the physical wellbeing of others, but expect an unreasonable amount of caregiving from you. I find them easy to identify and highly annoying once I do ID them.

    My SLE friend backbites the everliving crap out of this SEI girl in our class, which makes me wonder if this kind of behavior is inherent in mirage pairs. Every single mirage couple I'd see come to the casino I work at look like they are feigning happiness while actually miserable and visibly tired of each other.

    Semiduality can have similar tension but my need for dual seeking function makes those relations more tolerable because I don't feel like I have to explain my world view to them and they are exponentially more useful to me.

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    I’m sure these relations can have the opposite effect of being ‘healing’ too. Also, I feel like ILE and IEI are often quite open to being helped, they want someone to reach out and help them with their mental struggles where as other types might not so easily admit their weaknesses/ struggles. Could be similar for LSI/LIE. For me, on paper, semi-duality seems harder because with SEEs I have to face my moral failings/ learn to tolerate theirs. With mirage I’m sure we’ll disagree on stuff, but you can get closer to each other which could be useful for helping you feel ‘whole’ or ‘accepted’ if you’ve been through something difficult. But both semi-duality and mirage seem nice, if you find a good one. Semi-duals..cheer you up

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    I wouldn't say they are "healing" per se but they can be comfortable and naturally empathetic. I have social anxiety issues and people avoidant issues even now- though I am better than what I was, I still am quite picky about what social gatherings I attend to and ILEs have almost always made me feel welcome and wanted me to show up etc.. My ESE mom really likes my ILE friends because they help me get out of the house and be more of a Functional Normie lol.

    And if I got pig's blood poured on my head figuratively speaking socially, they were more or less the type of people that didn't laugh and instead looked at the bullies like 'how could you' lol instead of laughing along with the other people. Or I mean if they did laugh- we were both laughing at it together etc.

    I think they can both be cutely inspired by each other naturally etc.

    where it has been clashy/negative though if we morally criticize each other for anything instead of just base acceptance or something. It seems to get under each other's skin too much- we take it too seriously or something, and it can feel negative and weird. Maybe not enough to totally destroy the relationship or anything... but I don't think both of the types care about closing the Fi distance so much to even care much.

    Yeah at times, illusionary relationships can feel very warm and caring. The official descriptions all say this. It comes and goes though.

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    Idk what you mean by healing exactly and maybe there is other factors to take into accounts in the example im going to give but from experience my illusionary relationship have no healing qualities. Id said don't attempt to look for support from your illusionary if you have some problems internally and you're not your usual self. Dual definitely have healing qualities can help you see the light. Illusionary are only good for me when im feeling good already, it's confortable we can talk deeply ect like the description say but when really in trouble from my experience they won't help.

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    I have an SEE staying at my place with her infant and her ILI husband.
    We have interesting discussions about life and can enjoy doing stuff but it's certainly not a motivational thing.
    It's all right but not something for beyond an acquaintance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Banana King View Post
    Probably the cool thing about IEI is never running out of things to talk or joke about. It's similar to ILE/ILE, talking for hours and hours and constant joking, but the dynamic and atmosphere is different, I guess because of Ti and Fe. Other members of Alpha quadra get a bit tired of talking after a while. But basically talking is the extent to which the interaction is pleasant. Getting things done is impossible This IEI guy was often in my group assignments in college and he was SO fucking lazy. He was really smart but lazy as hell so I can only imagine some SLE being all sergeant with him to get him to do his job.
    Funny you mention that; sometimes my ILE boyfriend starts talking in what feels like a way where he's just talking to himself instead of with me which is irritating because I feel like I'm not there anymore. Once i whine about it, he says it's because he's just trying to make conversation and then he challenges me to start a conversation, and my mind goes blank.. there's nothing to talk about. He's like, hah! Also, I love chilling silently with him-- just silently enjoying him in the present-- but he often to my chagrin starts talking, and it's really that he always wants his mind occupied in some way.
    To be fair, we do spend most of our days with each other, too.

    With my BFF of the same type (i'm surrounded!) we actually could talk for hours and days. But what's nice is that she doesn't always need to be talking. I think there's a slight difference in that for some reason, she's less "ignoring" of Ni and our worldviews are pretty much totally aligned (we grew up together)-- along with both being girls and sharing veeeery similar interests. Therefore, she tickles my blabby Ni button!

    On the other hand, BF is noticeably more Ni-ignoring than my bestie, which makes me run out of interesting things to say quicker/engage less if i'm not genuinely interested, I guess. I guess you could say he doesn't tickle the Ni button because:
    1) first of all, there is resistance on his side due to the fact that i talk with such certainty about things that i can't rigorously and factually support or defend. I've found that I find it pretty hurtful when the person shows resistance to.. how do I phrase this? I would say "believing" me, but that implies that I expect people to always think I'm right, which is not what this is. Probably because I unconsciously expect someone who is suggestive to these types of Ni perspectives, as well as values this input.
    2) it's not as stimulating to talk with someone you can sort of tell doesnt engage with the material on a deeper level in the same way I do (Ni vs Ne).

    To support this point, my ESI mom reached a midlife crisis of sorts, so she's gotten very engaged with Ni things, and i find that now, much more than before, we could also talk for hours.

    Anyway, I don't think illusionary/extinguishement types are truly the ones you could talk with for hours-- unless you two are only rather recently acquainted and haven't yet talked about a lot of whatever already.

    Okay, I don't like 16types much in that it encourages my predisposition towards negatively ruminating about fine relationships and fine people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roww roww roww ur boaat View Post
    Idk what you mean by healing exactly and maybe there is other factors to take into accounts
    With my ILE buddy..well I think ultimately we care about each other and it feels like a friendship that will be really important at different times down the line. Illusionary is a very good ITR, similar to semi-duality and duality. My ILE friend has an SEI gf but I know he appreciates some IEI love too I just hope it doesn’t go weird because we are boy/girl but I don’t think so. I think that’s my own negative brain finding something to worry about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    With my ILE buddy..well I think ultimately we care about each other and it feels like a friendship that will be really important at different times down the line. Illusionary is a very good ITR, similar to semi-duality and duality. My ILE friend has an SEI gf but I know he appreciates some IEI love too I just hope it doesn’t go weird because we are boy/girl but I don’t think so. I think that’s my own negative brain finding something to worry about.
    I see. I have to clarify. It's true that there is something about illusionary relationship its deep. Gulenko said that to make it work they need to sympathize with each other from their soul. It's really spot on it can be very warm and it's something you don't have with a lot of people's so when you get into trouble this person will naturally care cause of all of the above but won't be able to help cause of misunderstanding not knowing what's to do. Mirage work well but it need adjustment, efforts. If one can't for some reason do those efforts anymore the relationship will deteriore cause misunderstanding will accumulate. What's crazy is that despite all this, quoting Gulenko here "In these relations even if you experience bitterness of failure, still you don't lose faith that things will improve." Its very accurate and its cause that person is still important you know what they mean to you at their best unfortunately you can't really help.

    Once again it's just from my experience i could be wrong but if you get into real trouble prioritize:

    Dual and every intertype relationships from quadra, semi dual and beneficiary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roww roww roww ur boaat View Post
    I see. I have to clarify. It's true that there is something about illusionary relationship its deep. Gulenko said that to make it work they need to sympathize with each other from their soul. It's really spot on it can be very warm and it's something you don't have with a lot of people's so when you get into trouble this person will naturally care cause of all of the above but won't be able to help cause of misunderstanding not knowing what's to do. Mirage work well but it need adjustment, efforts. If one can't for some reason do those efforts anymore the relationship will deteriore cause misunderstanding will accumulate. What's crazy is that despite all this, quoting Gulenko here "In these relations even if you experience bitterness of failure, still you don't lose faith that things will improve." Its very accurate and its cause that person is still important you know what they mean to you at their best unfortunately you can't really help.

    Once again it's just from my experience i could be wrong but if you get into real trouble prioritize:

    Dual and every intertype relationships from quadra, semi dual and beneficiary
    I meant to click constructive. yeah I agree the types you mention can be supportive in certain situations. I seem to have problems with LSI, I think I've had too many issues in my life for them to deal with lol. They just don't get it..also I think it overwhelms them. My brother is LSI however, and of course, in time I'm sure our relationship will be supportive. I also like the therapist Dr Julie Smith who is LSI. Mirrors...I have had mirror friendships but they didn't last. My best friend when I was a teen was EIE. We loved each other but I think we also had a bad influence on each other and didn't realise it. Worst of all, we grew apart when we probably could have helped each other if just one of us had reached out a bit more. She is still my fave person and out of all my failed friendships I can't quite let go of her...maybe we will be friends again one day. Semi-dual friends...well I think they can seem a bit too happy about me being in a shit situation and them getting to be a shoulder to cry on, my SEE sis is great but she will usually only reach out to me if I indicate that I need help..again if I was more honest with them, there would probably be less issues, but honesty can be hard. (Semi-dual would be good for romantic relationship however, for me). I feel accepted by my ILE friend. I also have two IEE pals who are great, interestingly they are quite different to me..and an SEI-si friend who is also a good mix of understanding and supportive, however, like the SEEs she doesn't ask enough questions. I do have an LSI friend I could probably make more effort with, and who could probably be a fun and helpful friend.

    Also I think ILE can help with some stuff as they are fine with te stuff..sometimes helping me with te is the root to helping me with si and se. I think good ITR are about putting your minds together to come up with answers?
    Last edited by Bethany; 04-20-2022 at 12:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by persimmonism View Post

    Okay, I don't like 16types much in that it encourages my predisposition towards negatively ruminating about fine relationships and fine people.
    yep crazy making..the thing that makes us love someone is the personality around the type, and it’s possible to love all types One of the most impressive, charming, intelligent, and loveliest people I know is an ESE who is with an SEI, and they’ve been together around 15 years. I don’t know them well but I have never heard anything that indicated they were unhappy. They are particularly striking in their personalities but part of that is perhaps due to them supporting each other through their young adult lives, (people get good at superficially developing all the functions?). I imagine there are a lot of successful people in matches that aren’t considered good in the socionics community. Good ITR are probably more important when other areas of your life are difficult. For all I know this ESE thinks she has it all- perfect job, husband, lifestyle. Duals (also maybe super-ego for their helpfulness) are probably most helpful for rich and famous people who need to constantly up their game or people at the other end of the scale who are struggling in life. People in the middle- successful to comfortable would probably be capable of making a relationship work that wasn’t the best ITR, as they would turn to other areas in their life to fulfill their needs that they didn’t get from their partner. Duality seems to create a strong bond and that is why it lasts, but other relationships have their own type of bond (healthy or unhealthy) that can be special in a different way. I take my time more in learning socionics these days as I specifically do not want to see the type before I see the person. I want to notice patterns about the types, but more as a sense of amusement or beauty or symmetry in the way people operate and cooperate, I don’t want to stereotype people by focusing on type before person.
    Last edited by Bethany; 04-20-2022 at 09:26 PM.

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    I would actually love a female ILE best friend.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    The big problem is that the base functions are ignoring each other. There is no understanding here. Some moths ago I met two SLE women and we dated a little. I notice how the Se makes my mind slow down and shut down. It's unpleasant because I feel dull and boring. I then want to get away from the person and their boring Se. Of course I notice the dual-like chemistry, nice atmosphere etc. but that makes the whole relationship even more confusing. The SLEs liked me and that's understandable because as an introvert I don't put my base out in the world as much, and they might not notice the negative stuff as much as I do.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I was wondering if anyone feels this way about their illusionary partner.
    illusionary partners bore the hell out of each other. I think activating partners are actually the ones who do what you are describing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincatrope View Post
    illusionary partners bore the hell out of each other. I think activating partners are actually the ones who do what you are describing.
    yeah maybe similar, but I don't think activity partners are as likely to grow together as a couple. With activity couples I think there is more cognitive dissonance in the way they relate to each other, in the long run. This could be an issue..I think the ITR with temperament clashes can result in more arguments, mistrust and unhealthy attachments. Less likely if the couple are each happy in other areas of their lives...and have a sense of freedom outside the relationship?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I think there is more cognitive dissonance in the way they relate to each other
    hmm, strange, why you think that? I somewhat agree with you in the matter of growth, ironically types that don't match well can help each other grow quickly, because it forces the person to look at things in such an angle that they are not comfortable with (say, super-ego relations for instance). But I was confused on the "cognitive dissonance" part. The only thing I imagine would cause that would be the 'rational vs irrational' orientation of activating partners.But I think in general anyone can help each other grow in some way, it's just that illusionary are "strange" to each other you know what I mean? They both have leading functions that are the other's ignoring functions which maybe the reason for that.

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    @Lincatrope my thinking is informed by the writing of a guy who used to post on this forum.

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/thestrength.html (his article..)

    I agree that types that don't match well can help each other grow quickly...I had an LSI high school English teacher for two years and I did extremely well in his lessons I was pretty uspet when he suddenly left lol. Activity is not too bad...but if the pair aren't truly suited then there might be too many arguments? That is not good in my book.

    Types that don't match well may also damage each other..I think it can take a while for some people to get over first loves with benefit/mirror/supervision ITR. I think for illusionary or super-ego pairs to come together they perhaps need to have a strong natural spark. This might be less important with duals or semi-duals? I think illusionary or super-ego pairs might break up as they weren't right for each other in the first place or they don't realise how good they have it..super-ego is a weird one but I think there are a lot of young super-ego couples and also a lot of successful super-ego couples where both people have reached a high level of emotional maturity.

    I've also been musing a little how someone's base function sort of resembles their dual seeking-function...like I get those same warm fuzzy feelings around ILE/IEEs as I do around SEIs/ sometimes SLIs. I think IEE ne can sometimes cause me stress..with ILE yeah maybe it can cause some boredom but it's also energising at the same time lol. I think stress causes more problems than boredom.
    Last edited by Bethany; 04-22-2022 at 11:58 AM.

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    IEE can be cute, and annoying. I can't stand So first...

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    Yeah ILEs rock. Sometimes I can’t stand any of the types/people I know but I know my ILE friend will always give me the support I need in the end. He’s the only one who seems to fully appreciate how hard life can be. I’ve been quite honest with him about my personal struggles and I’ve kinda been waiting for him to start to lose interest. He once told me that when he first met me he thought I seemed so happy and he liked that about me. So I thought he might go off me when I started to have a bit of a mental crisis. However, he has been pretty great.

    I tell him about the guy who was a dick to me and he immediately understands the situation and agrees, I tell him about my struggles with OCD and he doesn’t freak out, I tell him about my sleep problems and he provides useful suggestions while at the same time being positive and not letting me lose hope. He understands how one small problem can spiral into something bigger and how much trauma it can cause. He gets that you can be deeply critical of people but not hate them..even if I do probably hate them a bit lol. He gets how let down one can feel. Ok emo rant over lol. We also have a lot of fun together. It makes me want to get back in touch with an ILE female friend I know, or at least look forward to making more ILE friends in the future.
    Last edited by Bethany; 05-07-2022 at 10:03 AM.

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    I either love or hate IEEs. I think it may depend on the subtype and maturity level.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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