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Thread: Polr hits? What about lead-creative hits?

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    Varu's Avatar
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    Default Polr hits? What about lead-creative hits?

    According to socionics theory we are supposed to be very sensitive when we get hit in the realm of the polr. For example when people point out at our shortcomings.

    According to classical jungian theory this is something that would happen when the inferior function is hit. Jung's close colleague, Von Franz, came as far as giving an example of a Ni lead which was not able to turn on the car, stubbornly continue on it's own trying to solve the problem, while the other person in the car stayed silent despite knowing what the very sensorially obvious solution was. So why didn't she talk and solve the problem? Because she knew how oversensitive the Ni lead was in such matters.

    In one case it's about the polr, while in the other case it's about the inferior function. In any case it's about a 1D (and thus weak) IE. Now that there's some more context let's go to the real question:

    What about being hit in the realm of a strong function? Let me take as an example a depressed SLE stuck in an unfavorable environment. Should we for example believe that a obvious SLE considered weak and not pragmatic by the people surrounding him because of a couple of past incidents in the realm of Se should consider his Se to be in a sensitive position? I think it's not correct. No person is a God. Everyone can fail, and the perception of other people is always unstable and rarely accurate. I don't think that our SLE would just laugh at the people ridiculing his perceived shortcomings. And I think this would hurt the SLE especially, since it's an important part of his ego to come across in a certain way.

    The same could apply to a LIE failing some business enterprise. For sure some people around him could start doubting his Te capabilities. He himself probably will feel some form of pain because of certain comments. This doesn't mean that his Te his weak.

    So, I just wanted to raise a point and give some food for thought. There's a dangerous tendency to stereotype the sensitivity of every situation and type with haste according to "weak functions" which sometimes end up being in fact strong.
    Last edited by Varu; 10-21-2021 at 12:53 PM.

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    The Evening and the Morning Star Eudaimonia's Avatar
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    The idea of a PoLR hit is that you are asked to engage with a function you are both not comfortable with and don't value. Hits to the creative function don't really do much since you would have much more control over it and you would be accustomed to dealing with that information.

    A depressed SLE who is feeling overwhelmed by their environment is definitely possible, but that sounds like the SLE is getting in their own way that would lead to a different kind of frustration than a PoLR hit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varu View Post
    According to socionics theory we are supposed to be very sensitive when we get hit in the realm of the polr. For example when people point out at our shortcomings.

    According to classical jungian theory this is something that would happen when the inferior function is hit. Jung's close colleague, Von Franz, came as far as giving an example of a Ni lead which was not able to turn on the car, stubbornly continue on it's own trying to solve the problem, while the other person in the car stayed silent despite knowing what the very sensorially obvious solution was. So why didn't she talk and solve the problem? Because she knew how oversensitive the Ni lead was in such matters.

    In one case it's about the polr, while in the other case it's about the inferior function. In any case it's about a 1D (and thus weak) IE. Now that there's some more context let's go to the real question:

    What about being hit in the realm of a strong function? Let me take as an example a depressed SLE stuck in an unfavorable environment. Should we for example believe that a obvious SLE considered weak and not pragmatic by the people surrounding him because of a couple of past incidents in the realm of Se should consider his Se to be in a sensitive position? I think it's not correct. No person is a God. Everyone can fail, and the perception of other people is always unstable and rarely accurate. I don't think that our SLE would just laugh at the people ridiculing his perceived shortcomings. And I think this would hurt the SLE especially, since it's an important part of his ego to come across in a certain way.

    The same could apply to a LIE failing some business enterprise. For sure some people around him could start doubting his Te capabilities. He himself probably will feel some form of pain because of certain comments. This doesn't mean that his Te his weak.

    So, I just wanted to raise a point and give some food for thought. There's a dangerous tendency to stereotype the sensitivity of every situation and type with haste according to "weak functions" which sometimes end up being in fact strong.
    i understand what youre getting at.

    however polr hits are different from being reminded of your miseries and disappointments in life.
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

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    twiggewed, dewusional, entitwed, snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    all SLEs i know have faced a lot of ridicule. this is part of things i actually relate and agree with them about but then they take that and become very entitled and hostile with it when they prove everyone wrong about them. SLEs would have a head start in Se things but all of them i know worked a lot to get as far as they did and it wasn't a graceful journey. i hate them bc then they also ridicule others that start out as them and esp others who try and fail at their thing at a later point in their life. SLE adopt mentality trashing their own Fi to get through difficult things forcefully. they find Fi silly and then they laugh at others for caring about their own feelings.
    its hypocritical and nonsensical since the SLE still cares about things in general whihc is Fi. unless he is a psychopath. and then we have many psychopathic SLEs. so SLE working so hard and failing at what he probably wanted to ridicule others about hits his Fi PoLR. actually becoming so good at things getting expensive things muscles all may be ways to cope with b eing unable to handle their own Fi appropriately. compensating for being a pussy. everyone has a weakness.


    For my Te i like to figure things out myself. u can give me ready answers but if i dont understand it it's not helpful, and many people know less than they think. just thinking about how Te relates to being Ni dom Ti valuing already irritates me. if u dont know how the Te works in context of everything else its so limiting. i dare say memorizing Te things seems to make my brain worse at working through everything else. im testing and refining my theoretical principle assocations that would give me useful information in the future. the Te solves the problem now but i have no idea how the thing works. thats a band aid solution and Te seems like a lot of band aid solutions that are necessary for the collapsing consequences of previous bandaid solutions. PoLR hits is about something completely invalidating the purpose of ur lead-creative in principle. any hits when ur vulnerable would be bad.
    muscle function, cranial plates posture, personality, cognition and mental illness


    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    True. For the longest time I have wondered what that actually means. But I wouldn't call it a hit of anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    they find Fi silly and then they laugh at others for caring about their own feelings.
    No? That's not what Fi polr is.

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    twiggewed, dewusional, entitwed, snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    No? That's not what Fi polr is.
    false
    muscle function, cranial plates posture, personality, cognition and mental illness


    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    false
    Hey I have Fi polr and I assure you that I do have some​ empathy.

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    I thought the idea of being hit in ur ego function is you more easily defend attacks against it and don't act weak with it- you even welcome challenges to it. Your ego function has a lot of HP and can take quite the beating lol. In polr you don't wanna be challenged in that area, u want somebody else to tank/protect it for u. What makes a polr a polr hit is the other person subconciously expects something out of you that you're not naturally willing to provide or focus/care about that much yourself; acting in that way makes you feel uneasy.

    You can still be proven wrong with a superior function but I guess it wouldn't sting as much. Or maybe it's like, people will fight & defend themselves anyway regardless of what socionics theory says. It's not very American to admit you have a weak point in anything lol.

    A more experienced person can win a debate with you- but does it really feel so bad feeling crushed by an Identical for example? I think even when my Identical's Ni is 16D and mine is only 4D I still sense the mutual good will and empathy. I can get maybe slightly annoyed that they are so good at something but in reality it doesn't get under my skin so bad as I know with age and the right experiences I will be just as good with Ni one day lol.

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