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Thread: Mirror romantic relationship

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    Man - Man - Girl roger557's Avatar
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    Default Mirror romantic relationship

    Anybody have experience or opinions with this?

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    Yes. I dated an ILI for a few months. She was super sexy and I really, really liked the way her mind worked, but we were both Victims and so the relationship went nowhere.

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    I know an IEI male and EIE female couple who have been married for almost 5 years. They've had some rough patches between the two of them but in the past year or so they've actually gotten stronger after having to band together through a tough life circumstance. I feel like they rallied and closed ranks in a very Beta way.

    I don't see them as being traditionally in love, but best friends, which might be more durable in the long run anyway. I do think they prod each other to be stronger in a classic Se-valuing way, which has its positives and negatives.

    Personally I've been attracted to EIEs before but it's too much emotionality for me and Irrationality vs Rationality ends up being hugely ​important when it comes to day-to-day rhythms.

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    The j/p divide is like a nuclear submarine. You don't see it at first, but it can eventually destroy the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aria View Post

    I don't see them as being traditionally in love, but best friends, which might be more durable in the long run anyway.
    Are they sx first? Probably if they were it would be much more intense. I'm asking this because the most intense thing I've felt happened with mirror. Dunno if it's normal or it a peculiarity of my makeup or hers (we were both Sx/sp's).


    Personally I've been attracted to EIEs before but it's too much emotionality for me and Irrationality vs Rationality ends up being hugely ​important when it comes to day-to-day rhythms.
    Could you please explain further? Why is the j-p difference a problem?

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    The Evening and the Morning Star Eudaimonia's Avatar
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    I could see this working for me.
    “Preferiría no hacerlo”

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    I know a couple of mirror pairs who are childhood sweetheart types. Like together since 16. Almost like you can tell who is good for you when you are very young? And because you’re together from the start you perhaps are quite confident becoming your own person. I do wonder if you meet a good mirror at a young age, the relationship has a good chance of lasting.

    I suspect my sister was with a mirror at a young age. I always thought this must have impacted the vibrant personality she grew up to have. She looks back on that relationship very fondly (I think it was intense, with drama but caring). However I think she probably now is drawn to mirrors and maybe that’s not so good later in life..

    I also think that a really good dual might have a similar ‘feeling’ to a good mirror..but maybe I’m very wrong lol and I don’t really know what I mean

    it will be interesting to see if those couples last. They both seem from stable backgrounds, though one is more middle class. Both pairs are SEI-ESE. Fairly confident of typings.
    Last edited by Bethany; 10-13-2021 at 04:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I know a couple of mirror pairs who are childhood sweetheart types. Like together since 16. Almost like you can tell who is good for you when you are very young? And because you’re together from the start you perhaps are quite confident becoming your own person. I suspect my sister was with a mirror at a young age. I always thought this must have impacted the vibrant personality she grew up to have. She looks back on that relationship very fondly (I think it was intense, with drama but caring). However I think she probably now is drawn to mirrors and maybe that’s not so good later in life.,
    When I was sixteen, my best friend was an ESI Dual, and my second best friend was an IEI Supervisee. The ESI for Duality, the IEI for navigating major life changes.
    We included an ILI (Mirror to me) in our group sometimes, but he wasn't as close.

    Someone said that Duality is best when the two of you are life-stressed, but feels like nothing or is problematic when life is easy.

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    I could imagine how an LIE would be so annoyed at me thinking too much and waiting for him/her to make things happen. I could also imagine how annoyed I would get at how too high-strung while being unspontaneous he/she could be. I'll probably wish I could stab him/her by then but I won't say it. Pretty sure we'll also assume that the ball is in the other person's court so the whole thing will just be awkward lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post

    Someone said that Duality is best when the two of you are life-stressed, but feels like nothing or is problematic when life is easy.
    Well I know of two dual SEI/ILE pairs who I believe met at a young age. My mate is in early twenties and met his SEI gf at uni age. Have yet to ask him too much about it haha. He seems to be doing well enough in life, but has his past issues which we of course bond over. The other people are a successful underground ILE dj and the SEI is evidently his rock.

    Both the mirror couples are successful but in more a traditional way.

    Then I know of an IEE/SLI couple who met after uni. They seem fine from
    what my SEI pal tells me although there seems to be drama about choosing a place to live. (Oh how the other half live). Think they met at work doing some sort of cool work
    experience.

    I suspect my SEE friend abroad is with a dual. Her life is pretty normal but she seems quite happy although it was gradual I think. Sometimes she laments about not being single lol.

    edit: know of one more dual couple, at least I’m pretty sure they’re duals. SLE/ IEI teachers who met post uni. They have taught in different countries, pretty cool.
    Last edited by Bethany; 10-13-2021 at 06:57 PM.

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    When I was younger I dated an ILI for a few months, he's just like ME but more introverted, I guess that's why I like a guy like him, he reminds me of myself. We broke up because he moved abroad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aria View Post
    I don't see them as being traditionally in love, but best friends, which might be more durable in the long run anyway. I do think they prod each other to be stronger in a classic Se-valuing way, which has its positives and negatives.
    You're right, we're like besties, really, it doesn't feel romantic with him. Haha. And we're both ambitious. ILI's would be the perfect business partner I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    When I was sixteen, my best friend was an ESI Dual, and my second best friend was an IEI Supervisee. The ESI for Duality, the IEI for navigating major life changes.
    We included an ILI (Mirror to me) in our group sometimes, but he wasn't as close.

    Someone said that Duality is best when the two of you are life-stressed, but feels like nothing or is problematic when life is easy.
    Wow. When I was 16, my best friend was an ILE. And LII.
    Anyway, looking back, my close friends were all NT's (with a few NF's and ST's). Not a single SF hahah. Seems like I wasn't interested in them or there was no connection. But I realise as I get older, when I was in my mid 20s I started liking them, SEEs first lol. And now I finally have a few close friends from the same quadra. Haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    I could imagine how an LIE would be so annoyed at me thinking too much and waiting for him/her to make things happen. I could also imagine how annoyed I would get at how too high-strung while being unspontaneous he/she could be. I'll probably wish I could stab him/her by then but I won't say it. Pretty sure we'll also assume that the ball is in the other person's court so the whole thing will just be awkward lol.
    "As if they were playing games or push-pull behavior, but also exciting if a stage of certainty is reached"
    Haha.


    By the way, @Bethany, random question, are you from Australia?

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    Man - Man - Girl roger557's Avatar
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    When interacting with your mirror, using your HA gives the other person DS. That can create an interesting dynamic.

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    ESE are cool but I couldn’t date one. The few that I have met get me, which is really nice. I think for people who value someone similar, identity or mirror is a good relationship as there will be an understanding from both sides I think. The only downside I find is that you both have similar weakness which can really suck for the relationship and might cause frustration and you might begin to resent the other person for it. In the Sense, that you are forced to deal with your own weakness. For that reason, I couldn’t be with an ESE. I don’t want to date anyone similar to me as I don’t want to be forced to deal with my own weakness for the relationship. It’s one thing for myself, but it’s another that I would have to keep doing it in the relationship I think.

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    LII's either want someone to cover Se for them (avoidance) or they swing logic at you or they build their own island of perfection. They make it hard. There is a key to unlock it and ESE's (and EIE's) train them at it. You know that little thing called role and your mirror can not help to develop it. It seems to be the key to receive help for suggestive and as for LII it is about swallowing their uptightness and only then people can provide dat Fe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoRandomBSGenerator View Post
    LII's either want someone to cover Se for them (avoidance) or they swing logic at you or they build their own island of perfection. They make it hard. There is a key to unlock it and ESE's (and EIE's) train them at it. You know that little thing called role and your mirror can not help to develop it. It seems to be the key to receive help for suggestive and as for LII it is about swallowing their uptightness and only then people can provide dat Fe.
    If you want to develop role, then having a good super-ego friend (or more than), seems to be a much better idea. I read what you wrote wrongly first, and thought you said 'can not help but to develop it' and it didnt make sense. My bad.

    I do think that super-egos are good for that kind of work, more so than duals. But definitely not mirrors. Mirrors can develop this co-dependent relation on each other's role, making any long term, close intimacy relation kind of exhausting. I think the person with introverted role is more likely to give up first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
    I do think that super-egos are good for that kind of work, more so than duals.
    Maybe. You have to accept it. It seems more like maneuvering sort of thing. SEE manipulates human relations and I manipulate logical relations.

    For this reason super-egos are good at tackling problems if in agreement. It is like complimenting for all the wrong reasons. I think it fails in longer run.
    SEE's (for instance): "Talk about your feelings." [ILI's can become quite good at it – to a detriment of general mood. This is why some ILI's can be too much for me.]

    If both parties are good at handling their sore points it should make mirror relations better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoRandomBSGenerator View Post
    Maybe. You have to accept it. It seems more like maneuvering sort of thing. SEE manipulates human relations and I manipulate logical relations.

    For this reason super-egos are good at tackling problems if in agreement. It is like complimenting for all the wrong reasons. I think it fails in longer run.
    SEE's (for instance): "Talk about your feelings." [ILI's can become quite good at it – to a detriment of general mood. This is why some ILI's can be too much for me.]

    If both parties are good at handling their sore points it should make mirror relations better.
    I meant purely from the perspective of developing your role function. The super-ego type lives and breathes your role, so you can adjust your role in some way by learning from them. It might be unvalued, but seeing your role function in it's full glory is good for perspective in yourself, how to use it and when not to use it. You might have to swallow your normal reactions a bit, which is why it's not something for intimate, long term relations. Still, I think it's much better than mirrors, where the paralyzed is trying to learn from the crippled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoRandomBSGenerator View Post
    ........ SEE manipulates human relations and I manipulate logical relations.......
    Eps are great opportunists but the ones that I've met were terrible at manipulation. Oh sure, some try to lie and deceive but most are far too detached to properly get into someone's head to truly manipulate - compared to some Ejs that I've met. Many preferred running free in search of easy pickings rather than going through all the effort to manipulate.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
    I meant purely from the perspective of developing your role function. The super-ego type lives and breathes your role, so you can adjust your role in some way by learning from them. It might be unvalued, but seeing your role function in it's full glory is good for perspective in yourself, how to use it and when not to use it. You might have to swallow your normal reactions a bit, which is why it's not something for intimate, long term relations. Still, I think it's much better than mirrors, where the paralyzed is trying to learn from the crippled.

    The way I have seen it, mirror plays out similar to duality. Depending on subtypes (since producing subs have better roke functions) you might find your mirror covering up your PoLR, and with the HA-DS dynamic, I would say it is a much better ITR than what is commonly described. You also belong to the same club, so there is plenty of stuff to do together and to talk about.I would rank Mirror right there after duality, semiduality, and activity.

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    ime EIE likes me better than I like them and it makes me feel guilty. Either that or it turns into some one-sided sexual attraction thing? (no matter who is doing it) Doesn't feel very mutual- or maybe it's hard to convey that it is in fact mutual with the j/p divide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    Are they sx first? Probably if they were it would be much more intense. I'm asking this because the most intense thing I've felt happened with mirror. Dunno if it's normal or it a peculiarity of my makeup or hers (we were both Sx/sp's).




    Could you please explain further? Why is the j-p difference a problem?
    J-types, ime, are concerned with tying up loose ends. P-types are, at least, okay with starting a new project before immediately finishing the old project.

    A P-type might feel pressured by a J-type to be decisive while a J-type might say P-types spend too much time in a state of theorization. In a relationship, the rhythm between them is square peg/round hole.

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    Still think it would be nice to hear more mirror stories..They seem to be common relationships young people get into and often stay in for a while..there must be something good about them I do get that they can be damaging but maybe some people learn from them or at least have good memories?

    An ESE I used to talk to is in a mirror relationship. She is one of the most perfect seeming people, (also nice), I think someone like her can probably make a mirror relationship work lol. I know she lost a parent in young life so maybe she needed someone who felt familiar to settle down with, at a young age.
    Last edited by Bethany; 10-20-2021 at 01:45 PM.

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    I have an ESE-Si friend who dated an SEI-Fe for a couple years. As an onlooker, the upsides seem to be good sex, easy conversations, and general intraquadra comfort and stability. At least when subtypes are parallel (both creative or base subtype). I observed an SLE-Se/LSI-Se relationship that was much less stable.

    It seems to be a relation that is more attractive in romance when the partners have not had much experience with any individuals in their own quadra before.

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    I know a 5yr alpha NT couple and a 8yr gamma NT couple, Both seemed good from the outside, but the guys (LII & ILI) did complain sometimes that the women were not able to give what they needed emotionally. Covid lockdown hits, and both relationships are in trouble within a few months. The Alphas broke up. The Gammas decided to stick together and open it up.
    Last edited by inaLim; 11-03-2021 at 02:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    I know a 5yr alpha NT couple and a 8yr gamma NT couple, Both seemed good from the outside, but the guys (LII & ILI) did complain sometimes that the women were not able to give what they needed emotionally. Covid lockdown hits, and both relationships are in trouble within a few months. The Alphas broke up. The Gammas decided to stick together and open it up.
    Like I always seem to say, more confirmation of my theories but with yet another dose of how it really is all connected. Once more I feel like that guy in that movie I haven't seen but what I've already said should have given you an idea. That dude was a manic/broken ILI whereas I'm more... calm let's say.

    Of course the Alpha's broke up. Alpha couples like the implied LII-ILE pair are too present focused to see how and why they really ought to stick it out. works great for most practical matters. Hell, without armies of users most modern society would break down. The dark and seedy underbelly of modernity is filled with broken using Vogons chained to keyboards doing data/code entry. Without that endless and criminally underappreciated army of keyboard/code monkeys the modern world would collapse overnight. They have my respect and salute.

    However, once you introduce a bit of chaos into that system it breaks down hard and fast. Case in point? The current shortages every store seems to be experiencing here in the west. See, the JIT (Just In Time) delivery system was an absolute triumph of that I cannot help but salute. To simplify what it was and how it worked imagine an insanely complex Rube-Goldberg machine. It was stupid and insanely complex but even I couldn't help but admire how perfectly it was constructed. So long as the "marbles" kept coming it worked flawlessly. Hell, it even had a bit of give to it. Kudos to the individual who set it up. If one or two marbles didn't come in "on time" it was easy enough to compensate. If the flow of marbles came to a full stop for ten minutes or, to put it another way, if over a hundred marbles didn't come in as anticipated...

    Now you see what we Gamma's saw coming a lightyear away and why we tend to be the ones who never seem to run low on Toilet Paper and the like. Gotta be ahead of the game, front run the market trends, etc. This is also why an ILI-LIE couple would just buckle down and open up. I keep harping on attachment issues but that's because interpersonal relationships are radically altered by that variable. A healthy couple that lacks them will be happy even if they are conflictors. Likewise, duality won't ever fix terrible/traumatic levels of attachment issues. Being a dual won't fix the problems caused by things like rape or total abandonment by one's own mother/parents.

    For the sake of this thread I'll play the role of an ILI married to his mirror. Shit's hitting the fan but even so there is at least one person so invested in this relationship that they're willing to suffer to make it work. That LIE ball busting bitch is far from my ideal partner now that I've got the gift of hindsight but I've already spent this much time and energy on her and she is worth it. Say what others will, there was that time when we were first dating and she took my hand and showed me something truly beautiful. Then there was that time where we shared a silent yet mutual chuckle. So many moments where we felt (and still feel now that I think on it) a level of deep intimacy. Perhaps she could have been better, actually "got it" like she was oh so very close to every time I confront her. It's frustrating, but no matter how frustrating it is it's not worth discarding this marriage.

    I swore an oath to love her, and no matter what else I know she feels the same way. We truly do love each other. That's what matters. We can embrace the suck together and in so doing perhaps build towards a happier tomorrow. Still, I wish she was more "thirsty"...

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    For me I find that mirror more naturally falls into the friendship mold, but it is possible. I have known some pairs like ESE-SEI that are naturally more affectionate and might work better in general.
    Last edited by thehotelambush; 11-05-2021 at 12:11 PM.

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