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Thread: Do we NEED Duality?

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    I don't think it is at all. I know from first hand experience and that of my three married brothers as well.

    That you hold such a cynical point of view is sad to me.

    Society did not construct romance, in the same way romance is not constructed by certain other animals who, through inference, experience romance as well.

    Im wondering if you also believe gender is a social construct? This type of thinking is what Petterson was warning us about.
    I didn't say gender was a social construct, I said romance is

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    thats his excuse to everyone that he is a man
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    Also I think some duals are very show off-y look at me, this person changed my life on Instagram, where as some dual couples are like yeah, we met, we got on, it’s no big deal. I wonder what the average dual couple would think about socionics if they found out about it haha.

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    I’m going to throw my own thoughts in the rings since I started this discussion

    In theory, I think duality would be the best romantically. If not romantically, I think the best for a parent/child relationship. But real human experience is way different then theory. In the Sense, just because it is always great in theory, doesn’t mean it is going to work out in real life. Plus, there are a lot of duals you will be incompatible with because of interests, backgrounds, life experiences, etc.

    I also honestly believe that some people don’t really need their dual. I think there are some people in this world that don’t like their dual seeking function or appreciate it and don’t want someone like that even if it makes life easier for them. I was honestly like that when I was younger and most people want someone who is similar to them. In the sense, if you have more similar functions or on the same sensing/intuitive axis, it makes it easier to relate.

    I also have a lot of friends that are very very different then me and I really appreciate what they bring to the table. They are good at things I will never be good at and vice versa. It doesn’t mean the relationship is any worse. I do think there are some inter type relationships that ARE more beneficial then duals at times. Supervisor can be one and mirage as well.

    I think we know ourselves best and we know what kind of relationship is going to be best for us. Friendship wise I will honestly be open with every type. Hell, I’ve had a lot of gamma friends that I care about. (Edit: looking back, this came out wrong. Basically despite being in a conflict quadra, I still have close gamma friends that I care deeply about and get along with. Essentially we have a good relation despite theory). Romantically, I am open to dating types that are not my dual however, I am limiting to LSI, LII, and EIE personally. Though, I would personally prefer a dual, I would not think any less of my partner if I ended up with any of those other types. I know what I need at the least in a partner and I would rather be alone if my partner didn’t have them. But I know I do naturally seek out my dual and need help with it…I know I do personally.

    I could most likely be easily friends with an ILE women, I don’t think I could be close friends with an ILE man at all. It would be more of a respect thing then me not being able to control myself lol. I would like a close ILE friend Just I haven’t found someone around me yet that wants to get close.

    Also, I survived this long without duality. I know I’ll be fine. Though…I think the right dual would make my life brighter. But the important thing is finding the right one for me. Be that friendship, romantic, or both.

    I can get by on my own, but I do think duality would make life nicer but it is not always required thing.
    Last edited by MissDucki; 10-03-2021 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Edit

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I’m going to throw my own thoughts in the rings since I started this discussion

    In theory, I think duality would be the best romantically. If not romantically, I think the best for a parent/child relationship. But real human experience is way different then theory. In the Sense, just because it is always great in theory, doesn’t mean it is going to work out in real life. Plus, there are a lot of duals you will be incompatible with because of interests, backgrounds, life experiences, etc.

    I also honestly believe that some people don’t really need their dual. I think there are some people in this world that don’t like their dual seeking function or appreciate it and don’t want someone like that even if it makes life easier for them. I was honestly like that when I was younger and most people want someone who is similar to them. In the sense, if you have more similar functions or on the same sensing/intuitive axis, it makes it easier to relate.

    I also have a lot of friends that are very very different then me and I really appreciate what they bring to the table. They are good at things I will never be good at and vice versa. It doesn’t mean the relationship is any worse. I do think there are some inter type relationships that ARE more beneficial then duals at times. Supervisor can be one and mirage as well.

    I think we know ourselves best and we know what kind of relationship is going to be best for us. Friendship wise I will honestly be open with every type. Hell, I’ve had a lot of gamma friends that I care about. Romantically, I am open to dating types that are not my dual however, I am limiting to LSI, LII, and EIE personally. Though, I would personally prefer a dual, I would not think any less of my partner if I ended up with any of those other types. I know what I need at the least in a partner and I would rather be alone if my partner didn’t have them. But I know I do naturally seek out my dual and need help with it…I know I do personally.

    I could most likely be easily friends with an ILE women, I don’t think I could be close friends with an ILE man at all. It would be more of a respect thing then me not being able to control myself lol. I would like a close ILE friend Just I haven’t found someone around me yet that wants to get close.

    Also, I survived this long without duality. I know I’ll be fine. Though…I think the right dual would make my life brighter. But the important thing is finding the right one for me. Be that friendship, romantic, or both.

    I can get by on my own, but I do think duality would make life nicer but it is not always required thing.
    You're more familiar with yourself than I could ever be. It isn't my deal to advise on life choices anyway.

    One of the cooler sh*ts about socionics is it's take on interaction between functions. It buys that irrational/rational might have different vital rhythms while Se/Si are psychologically corrective of one another.

    Imo, you have a great relationship with your HA/DS. Folk like you are interesting to talk to cause you're a listener, a contributor to conversation & desire to make the best choices for your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    You're more familiar with yourself than I could ever be. It isn't my deal to advise on life choices anyway.

    One of the cooler sh*ts about socionics is it's take on interaction between functions. It buys that irrational/rational might have different vital rhythms while Se/Si are psychologically corrective of one another.

    Imo, you have a great relationship with your HA/DS. Folk like you are interesting to talk to cause you're a listener, a contributor to conversation & desire to make the best choices for your life.
    Thank you!

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    Also, the most important thing in a relationship is that you love each other. The annoying things about a non-dual won’t seem to matter so much if you genuinely care for each other. If you are content in your relationship you will naturally seek experiences in and outside of your relationship that help you develop/ fulfil the needs of your weaker functions.

    edit: ok thinking out loud.. You may even begin to resemble each other’s duals more as you grow as people and strengthen all your functions. Sometimes I read stuff written by smart SEEs and I think wow, why are they not my dual? It’s why they say a good semi-dual is better than a bad dual. (Same could go for other types). Now, I wouldn’t mind an SLE who was a bit ‘broken’ and needed support but if a wonderful SEE came along and instead wanted to ‘help me’ with my past issues..the SEE might seem more appealing. I notice how it’s harder to type older people sometimes and that might be because they’ve become more well-rounded, same goes for privileged celebrities.
    Last edited by Bethany; 10-03-2021 at 11:12 AM.

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    Duality certainly isn't a key ingredient for a meaningful relationship; most people could survive and some would be happier without a partner of any type. Dual pairs have little in common; many may share common goals but achieve them through entirely different processes. These relationships can take more effort than some others in order to grow accustomed to one another, if at all. A partnership would benefit from dual thought processes and approaches but each partner could easily survive without the other, and such a partnership may offer no benefits whatsoever depending on their personal baggage. Duals don't tend to irritate each other as much over the long haul although they will indeed irritate. The differences in the potentials for discord are rather insignificant among duality, super-ego, semi-dual, illusionary, comparative and look-alike pairs. I'm only talking statistics here because it's very possible for the other pairs to form peaceful, long-lasting relationships - just not as probable.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I think too many people on this site take typology too seriously.

    Having said that...I recently realized I'm accidentally in a relationship with my dual. I'm happy.

    I would never actually go looking for a peron's type in order to qualify or disqualify them from a relationship though. Once I log off of the forums I generally don't even think much about typology at all. I don't go around typing everyone or whatever.

    I can't really wrap my mind around seeking dual partnerships...I've been mistyped for years and I know I'm not the only one. I also had a very rocky start with my dual partner.
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    When interacting with someone is a pain, no matter how much you love them, it simply is not sustainable.

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    I think something that’s missing from a lot of duality fantasising is that it can be really annoying to carry your dual and their weaknesses. Like I will spend a lot of time considering how what I’m saying / doing affects my LSI’s feelings but in return, he just forces whatever his opinion is (Ti bluntness plus Se assertiveness; plus Ne-Polr meaning he struggles to hold other points of view; plus 1D-Fe meaning he can’t tell how what he says is going to affect me). But I value Fe so this is annoying, and sometimes funny, but often not.

    We have similar arguments around him carrying all the Si weight and managing the household because I don’t value that at all. My spatial awareness is so bad I’m a nightmare to live with

    so we work as a unit where all bases are covered but that doesn’t mean the individuals don’t get resentful that they are the only ones doing X IM
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaveYourself View Post
    I think something that’s missing from a lot of duality fantasising is that it can be really annoying to carry your dual and their weaknesses. Like I will spend a lot of time considering how what I’m saying / doing affects my LSI’s feelings but in return, he just forces whatever his opinion is (Ti bluntness plus Se assertiveness; plus Ne-Polr meaning he struggles to hold other points of view; plus 1D-Fe meaning he can’t tell how what he says is going to affect me). But I value Fe so this is annoying, and sometimes funny, but often not.

    We have similar arguments around him carrying all the Si weight and managing the household because I don’t value that at all. My spatial awareness is so bad I’m a nightmare to live with

    so we work as a unit where all bases are covered but that doesn’t mean the individuals don’t get resentful that they are the only ones doing X IM
    "Carry each others faults but get annoyed by it" sounds more like conflictor than dual.

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    I guess I feel lucky that I have SEE and LSI siblings. I may not have a dual around but it’s nice knowing I have se-types around in my life for good.

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    No. Nothing more needs to be said than that.

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    We don’t need a dual, we need a 17th type

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    We don’t need a dual, we need a 17th type
    What would be their IE configuration?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rtht View Post
    What would be their IE configuration?
    IEI SLE Hybrid?

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    I think my SEE sister thinks I’m such a weirdo for talking about duals and type compatibility lol. Ok, she is a very romantic, adventurous SEE and maybe not old enough to worry about life-long compatibility but sometimes I feel like she knows a secret I don’t know and she’s gonna figure out the key to ever-lasting love all on her own whilst having fun along the way..

    Also, going home on the tube today I saw the nicest couple looking tired from travelling holding on to each other with their eyes closed the whole way. I looked at them thinking, wonder what types they are. And thought what does it matter, that is love..

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    Quote Originally Posted by rtht View Post
    IEI SLE Hybrid?
    haha yessss. Can we grow one in a lab

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    haha yessss. Can we grow one in a lab
    I think those Boston Dynamics robots are coming along, so It might not be too far away! lol.... I'll guess that's what a lot of ppl would choose? an identical Dual hybrid?... or maybe something else???

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    Quote Originally Posted by rtht View Post
    I think those Boston Dynamics robots are coming along, so It might not be too far away! lol.... I'll guess that's what a lot of ppl would choose? an identical Dual hybrid?... or maybe something else???
    They have SE covered already


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    It has started already....


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    @rtht they are pretty good dancers!! I’d hang out with them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I think my SEE sister thinks I’m such a weirdo for talking about duals and type compatibility lol. Ok, she is a very romantic, adventurous SEE and maybe not old enough to worry about life-long compatibility but sometimes I feel like she knows a secret I don’t know and she’s gonna figure out the key to ever-lasting love all on her own whilst having fun along the way..

    Also, going home on the tube today I saw the nicest couple looking tired from travelling holding on to each other with their eyes closed the whole way. I looked at them thinking, wonder what types they are. And thought what does it matter, that is love..
    @Bethany, maybe you can handcuff her to a male LII and lose the key.

    If that doesn't convince her of the value of learning Socionics, nothing will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @rtht they are pretty good dancers!! I’d hang out with them!
    Just don't spill your drink on one..... you don't want it to die, and fall on you

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    @Adam Strange aww. Well I can slowly teach her over time by referring to examples of good ITR between people we know. But she’s too young and carefree to worry yet. She did say she is becoming more open-minded to a nice boy oops that might end up being an LII

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    Duality is best to learn "how to be yourself" in a world that teaches us to fake our entire personas but if "yourself" is an asshole than it ain't gonna really help. I know some Beta ST jockbros who are very sexist, cringy, harass other people who are usually with Beta NF women who don't really dissuade their disgusting habits and usually encourage it with their submission and degradation kink. Which I'm not necessarily shaming but it's good to have a backbone and not be a pussybitch just because you have a special connection or whatever. Anyway I know more than a few miserable people who want to expel their misery with power games and duality ain't gonna solve whatever's going on there, LOL.




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    Questions of need are unanswerable if a goal isn't specified. For example, "Do we need water?" only works as a question because we all assume you mean "Do we need water to live?" It might seem pedantic, but it's important. Do we need duality for... what exactly?

    I don't think we need duality to be happy. A lot of people seem to be living perfectly happy lives while single or in a long-term relationship with a nondual (even with a conflictor in some cases). If you're asking if we need it in order to become "whole" then "whole" also needs some kind of definition. Our ideas of what a "whole" psyche look like are very likely going to be different in some ways and similar in others. Even so, I'm doubtful that we need it for that unless you bake "being in a dual relationship" into the definition of being whole. Perhaps the question is about whether we need duality to accomplish some vague psychological work like "being dualized". Even if we set aside how vague the idea of "being dualized" is, I think it's more likely that whatever it is, it can occur through relationships with a wide variety of people. You don't need just one person to be everything for you. That's a lot of pressure to put on someone. I think you can get bits and pieces of whatever you need from many different people in your life.

    Additionally, I would be suspicious that someone who argues that you absolutely need it for whatever reason may be operating under a circular definition which boils down to something like, "You need duality so that you can be dualized, which is what happens when you have duality."

    That being said, I would very much like to find a dual. The dynamic sounds nice
    Last edited by AWellArmedCat; 10-18-2021 at 05:43 AM. Reason: Had another thought to add
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    ESI/LIE drawbacks:

    ESI - craves closeness, connection
    LIE - gets too caught up in projects, etc. and ESI hates that they always have to be the one who initiates closing the distance/reviving or maintaining closeness, always chasing even while together

    ESI - Needs connections, prioritizes them above all else in their lives while sort of helpless to change that fact. Connects through exchanging deep, intimate contents, rather than shared activities.
    LIE - Struggles to open up, share intimate aspects of themselves/their lives, expects ESI to always do the initiating.

    ESI: tries to share analytical thoughts about human/relationship dynamics just to chat and connect and share thoughts about a personal interest (relationships/human dynamics) (which is often their biggest, most important interest, even, not just some trivial one), feels like LIE just doesn't get whatever ESI is saying and it causes arguments (LIE opposes/argues what ESI is saying because LIE doesn't actually get it, it wasn't broken down enough by ESI, misunderstandings about what is being said create conflict), ESI doesn't want to talk to LIE about the subject that is the most important thing to them anymore, seems like can't have a casual, laid back, non-teaching, conversation with someone as an equal in this department, without having to explain every little thing. Lack of connecting via "Finally, someone actually gets it!"

    I fail to see how this is the most desirable relationship pairing in the typology system for these two types. Personally, I'd much rather get with some other ESI (preferably female, since females aren't culturally influenced to be less emotionally open). Both big on self-improvement, both big on challenging selves/others, both crave connections, etc. Shared values. Pretty much capable of being a power couple, tbh.

    TLDR:
    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki
    want to take on a different perspective for the hell of it. Do we NEED duality? Is duality always the best? Are there drawbacks to duality that nobody talks about?
    Hell no we don't need duality. Hell yes there are drawbacks. And as for filling our own weak spots...we can work on our own weaknesses and get by in life. We don't need to go around unifying to become masters of all, people specialize in their specific areas for a reason. Society is a whole that covers all needed aspects, you don't need to do that in a relationship with others 1 on 1 in addition to it.
    Last edited by Noir; 11-03-2021 at 12:05 AM.
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    I think diferent type have diferent PoV of what it's mean to be a partner. For me a partner is someone who being able to play with me, either it's a physical game or a video game, or just achieve some goal together in an exciting way. And SEE seem to be the most obvious choice...

    It' doesn't mean we cannot live without duality, but I still think we do need duality to some degree. I see how my ESI mother need Te so much without realizing it, and she've always been draw back when she meet a Te lead, it's hilarious... I just hope she find a Te - lead friend so she doesn't have to pull Te from me, such a pain in the ass...

    My Te is a passive version of LIE's Te. It work best with people with extreme high energy toward their goal, so I could pull them back. But when it come to pushing/leading people to do shit, it work very very bad...

    So, by having a dual, you make yourself less trouble to other types.... seriously.
    Last edited by Tarnished; 11-05-2021 at 10:24 AM.

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    Need for what?

    It's safe to say we don't need duality to avoid e.g. psychosomatic illness as some socionists have said. As others have said, it's neither wise nor practical to depend on others for personal development, you need to learn how to do things for yourself. Dual relationships are not always harmonious either, like most relationships these days they may end prematurely.

    Are they nice to have? Sure, in the best cases duality can be a really special thing. But you don't need it.

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    Perhaps you can compare it the questions: do you need to have the perfect job to be happy? Do you need to have a lot of money to be happy? No, these things alone, similar to a dual/partner will not make you happy. It’s having a good balance of all three that will make you happy.

    - healthy relationships, ideally a partner but there are always friends out there if you need them, (even temporarily, friendships come and go and can come back too)

    -a job that you find meaningful or where you feel you fit in and your strengths are valued

    -enough money so you can live comfortably and gives you freedom to save as well as experience new things.

    I think that juggling all three of these things, keeping the balls in the air, is what might make me feel ‘self-actualized’, content or finely in tune with the world and appreciative of my own existence and that of others, and more aware of my own humanity, my strengths and weaknesses I bring to the world. If I can experience that in the next however many years I live, I think I will find peace before old age. It is not duality that will help achieve those things, but a dual may provide some of those things. Another type could also provide you with some of those things. Some, you will have to find for yourself. But really, it is the initial romance stage of duality that people yearn for, because it’s that feeling, I imagine that makes you feel like there’s some huge purpose to life. It’ll pass though and you’ll have to keep finding meaning?

    Other than healthy relationships, learning about psychology can do wonders for helping you move from a position of weakness and helplessness to one of happiness and strength. Finding meaning in life and feeling fully alive is true lasting duality. It’s your own story, your own adventure, your own quest to find joy and peace and a sense of importance or happiness to being alive.
    Last edited by Bethany; 11-05-2021 at 04:11 PM.

  34. #74
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    More detail (my opninion):

    Ti lead: most independent people. They don't really need a Fe lead relationship if they don't want to, all they need is just to find a place with strong/good Fe environment, problem solve.

    Ni lead: can struggle hard without Se, especially IEI (Te polr). Find a strong Se environment is not a good idea since they can get hurt themself. A Se lead partner is a better choice.

    Fi lead: like Ti lead, they can just find a good Te environment to work with for Te seeking. BUT, the nature of Fi is about relationship, so they will end up depend on some other people, whose are not Te dom (lol)

    Si: Not sure, but I think they are capable to live by them self. SLI may need a close relationship more (compare to SEI) since they value Fi

    Te: struggle hard without Fi, and since Fi is about relationship, it must be someone close to them, not random people they pick up from the bar. Poor these guy, really.

    Ne: have huge troubles without Si. ILE seem worse than IEE. But they can still find some Si environment for their Si - seeking. But IEE would prefer a relationship more.

    Fe: Can handle themself pretty well, though EIE may need a specific partner more than ESE.

    Se: Most SEE I know still have an ok life without ILI (not very good, only ok), but a SLE without an IEI is a little bit hopeless.
    Last edited by Tarnished; 11-05-2021 at 03:16 PM.

  35. #75
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    I think the person matters more than their "personality type".

  36. #76
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    One can survive without it, albeit harder to lead a psychologically individuated life in its absence.

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    I’m dim and unsuccessful so I can’t see myself having any sort of equal relationship with an LIE. They can only be mentors, bosses, one night stands and people to buy snake oil motivational dvds from
    Last edited by Averroes; 11-09-2021 at 11:38 PM.

  38. #78
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    We don't need duality per se, but I still do think that it is important to have someone in your life who can take care of your weaknesses when educating a children.
    For example, if you are an individual who is too passive it is best to have a more assertive partner , otherwise your child won't be disciplined enough.

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