How and why most ILI's aren't Narcissists

[DEAD]

The problem is you can just take it to another thread and that thread would be as equally toxic. But I do think that a thread with the title including the phrase "_insert type here_ aren't narcissists" is a good bait for toxicity.

Yeah, people are so easily baited that they just give in and continue the trail. In this case, I think ignoring the person works. If everyone ignores them, they go away. But people let their inner, defensive instincts take over, and they let it spiral out of control and cause more chaos than it's worth.

[End]

That's inaccurate. most people dont even have world views. It's all about being socially accepted. They believe what's convenient for their immediate survival. They change their worldview superficially to avoid conflict. They are so cognitively dissonant and contradictory. xII and IxI have the most amount of interrelated information that has to be influenced for them to change their world view. The problem with ILIs is that they often do not give a shit about the truth. They want to indulge in their delusions. The truth is vital for the xII and IEI but antithetical for the ILI. WOOOW I just recalled in a show the most ILI character's theme was all about LIES. It was awesome you should watch Bakemonogatari.

I'll speak from direct experience here. You want a person who wants to find the truth no matter what? Who fully identifies with the phrase "Let Justice be done though the heavens fall?" Look for an ILI. I don't and won't hold back. However, even at my most broken I felt and knew without any citation or evidence (i.e. pure ) that there was/is something utterly wrong with the world and that even if it cost me all of my sanity and soul I would find out what it was and somehow fling that dying light into the future. I'd find that wrong thing, identify it, categorize it so clearly even a lobotomized retard would do something in response and (by extension of all that) at least find some what to damage it and if nothing else tell someone else what it was and they, if not myself sadly, would find a way to make that fact count.

It seems you were utterly betrayed in a bad way by an ILI I'd wager. To get backstabbed by your kindred relationship is one hell of a wound I will admit. After all, they weren't quite like you but they really ought to have "understood" you on a fundamental level. To truly be able to empathize with another, to in some way understand them in such a primal and absolute way... and then stab that knife deep into your back/chest for what seemed to be the enjoyment of it? Verily I say unto you you have experienced a truth. There are demons among us and evil exists in many forms and in all types. Do not fall into despair because you had a close encounter of the Demonic kind.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

I'll speak from direct experience here. You want a person who wants to find the truth no matter what? Who fully identifies with the phrase "Let Justice be done though the heavens fall?" Look for an ILI. I don't and won't hold back. However, even at my most broken I felt and knew without any citation or evidence (i.e. pure ) that there was/is something utterly wrong with the world and that even if it cost me all of my sanity and soul I would find out what it was and somehow fling that dying light into the future. I'd find that wrong thing, identify it, categorize it so clearly even a lobotomized retard would do something in response and (by extension of all that) at least find some what to damage it and if nothing else tell someone else what it was and they, if not myself sadly, would find a way to make that fact count.

It seems you were utterly betrayed in a bad way by an ILI I'd wager. To get backstabbed by your kindred relationship is one hell of a wound I will admit. After all, they weren't quite like you but they really ought to have "understood" you on a fundamental level. To truly be able to empathize with another, to in some way understand them in such a primal and absolute way... and then stab that knife deep into your back/chest for what seemed to be the enjoyment of it? Verily I say unto you you have experienced a truth. There are demons among us and evil exists in many forms and in all types. Do not fall into despair because you had a close encounter of the Demonic kind.

those kinds of people think im the one backstabbing them by criticizing what they do. they do not realize they are hurting others unfairly. they dont do it on purpose. they have justificiations for it that make sense to them that arent in line with the truth. they think i am hurting them by stopping them from hurting me and others which is what is the consequences of what they do. they think its a given or a necessity for everyone and are fighting a fair fight that no one can complain about. they want to be honest with yet throw accussations instead of trying to figure it out. they deny they are the force that drives the war that forces others to have to fight them to begin with. This is the pattern of your experience with misogyny for instance. Thought something was wrong with women that wasn't and they had to be abused and submissive which you saw as being deserving and adequate compensation for your efforts. like thats how they have to be for you to not be abused. they do not understand interconnectedness which also means people. thats the solipsism and narcissism u said. and there is more and less of it depending on the individual but i would say that any ILI struggles with it in general to a higher level than an IEI would. this by default necessiates ILI being unfair, intentionally or not. if IEI's strength is to teach ILI in that regard they ILI offended by someone policing them since ILI thinks ILI isn't policing or getting in anyone's way (both solipsism (not understanding that they are) and narcissism (thinking its fair and others having their way is unfair. wants them to fight for it. they dont distinguish between unsolicited aggression/hostiliy and self-defense. in defense of ILIs i say that ILIs arent hurting other intentionally a lot of the time bc unlike them i am more aware of other's intentions and needs)

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I think Narcissism is overblown.




https://my.clevelandclinic.org/healt...oms-and-causes


This is a survival mechanism. Anyone who ever amounted to anything great has these characteristics in some form or another.

I was put down all the time as a kid (by teachers, my parents, other kids) and the only person who believed in me then was myself, so I'm not really going to be ashamed of this.

If you think you need something more than what you """"deserve"""" you have an "overinflated sense of importance". Guess what? You get what you can take in the end and you are the one that determines what you deserve.

You're only able to say this because you've never dealt with an actual narcissist or learned about them in-depth. People do this all the time: "Whatever, I relate to this, this could be anyone." Largely, that is because things are relative to comparison. People who say these things never realize how extreme things are. Narcissists are like this to such a great extent that it's toxic and sometimes even dangerous. It usually tends to traumatize people. Just to give you an example...their grandiosity is rooted in deep, deep insecurity. They see people as objects--they technically "have" empathy, they just don't care enough to actually use it. You're literally no different than a can opener, a couch, or a phone to them. These are people who will watch a movie in which someone carrying a laptop walks in front of a bus--and their knee-jerk reaction is to care about the damage to the laptop rather than the person. Their grandiosity is insecurity, thus depends upon "narcissistic supply," which they use other people for. These people are known as narcissistic agents, flying monkeys, or enablers. Their grandiosity is so extreme that their offspring are nothing more than extensions of themselves: they are there to live up to the narcissist's expectations, values, standards, in order to be part of the narcissist's desired image. Simultaneously, it's impossible to meet those things the way they want you to, which is also partly why emotional abuse takes place during the "reshaping" process. The child is stripped of any individual personality, emotionally abused into mentally depending upon them and being whatever the narcissist wants them to be. They want to decide their child's interests, personality, views/beliefs, values, social life, everything--all to meet their own need for a grandiose image that others will esteem. The reason they control the social life is partly because to keep the abused person isolated is to also maintain more security in their control over the victim. When the children are not extensions of the parent, they are often scapegoats for everything (maybe for not living up to the desired image the narcissist wants the child to give the parent, or because the child resembles the other parent more than them, or whatever). Blamed for everything, including what the narcissist is at fault for. They can't admit they were wrong about anything, everything is someone else's fault. They always have to present themselves as the victim. Compromises don't exist in their world. They don't care enough to bother, even. The only thing they care about is getting what they want.

Does that sound like normal survival mechanisms to you?

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Does that sound like normal survival mechanisms to you?

What is a normal survival mechanism?

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

What is a normal survival mechanism?

One that is not maladaptive is what I intended to say, I suppose.

[End]

those kinds of people think im the one backstabbing them by criticizing what they do. they do not realize they are hurting others unfairly. they dont do it on purpose. they have justificiations for it that make sense to them that arent in line with the truth. they think i am hurting them by stopping them from hurting me and others which is what is the consequences of what they do. they think its a given or a necessity for everyone and are fighting a fair fight that no one can complain about. they want to be honest with yet throw accussations instead of trying to figure it out. they deny they are the force that drives the war that forces others to have to fight them to begin with. This is the pattern of your experience with misogyny for instance. Thought something was wrong with women that wasn't and they had to be abused and submissive which you saw as being deserving and adequate compensation for your efforts. like thats how they have to be for you to not be abused. they do not understand interconnectedness which also means people. thats the solipsism and narcissism u said. and there is more and less of it depending on the individual but i would say that any ILI struggles with it in general to a higher level than an IEI would. this by default necessiates ILI being unfair, intentionally or not. if IEI's strength is to teach ILI in that regard they ILI offended by someone policing them since ILI thinks ILI isn't policing or getting in anyone's way (both solipsism (not understanding that they are) and narcissism (thinking its fair and others having their way is unfair. wants them to fight for it. they dont distinguish between unsolicited aggression/hostiliy and self-defense. in defense of ILIs i say that ILIs arent hurting other intentionally a lot of the time bc unlike them i am more aware of other's intentions and needs)

Or, to condense it down, the ILI is broken and has resorted to a common cope for his/her type. If they weren't broken they'd take the criticism as constructive so long as they didn't think you were hostile towards them. with does tend to ignore the human/emotional side of achieving a goal and if someone told me how I was turning everyone off in regards to executing my genius plan (e.g. how I'm hurting them emotionally) for a better tomorrow I'd sure as hell listen. I am fighting the good fight but if someone told me how to fight smarter instead of harder I'd give that mofo a hug! Of course, in broken people criticism is usually synonymous with hostility so there ya go.

And in regards to my past experience with misogyny you're missing it rather hard. I was right about there being something wrong with modern women, but I was wrong about where the root of that problem was and what it stemmed from. I used to think it was biological hardware. That women were all hypergamous sluts at the core because that's how they were hardwired genetically. Now I understand it's a software issue. They became said sluts because that's a cope for their attachment issues (as is sleeping with said sluts if you happen to be a guy). Most men and women are terrible now because they are broken and they don't even know they are broken much less how and why they're broken. Even if they do somehow learn of that fact if they give into despair and conclude they and others cannot ever be fixed or redeemed they will never get better.

I'm a broken record here but I've become that for damn good reason. Pretty much all the problems people have in regards to interpersonal relationships can be traced back to broken attachment. You have to fix that before any real progress can be made. First step of solving a problem however is admitting/discovering you have one and in the West especially most everyone has this problem. Gotta spread awareness first if we want to then move on to solving this core and fundamental problem.

[Bethanyclaire]

When I’m trying to understand ILIs I tell myself to think about Wuthering Heights- think of Heathcliff. I studied that book at school and the class of teenage girls I was in all agreed it was so messed up but we loved it. Our uptight ILI teacher (who btw was a bit of a dick to me) clearly loved it too and it was really fun to study. It’s one of the best books every written. Written by an ILI. It captures the darkness of what means to be human and even though Cathy and Heathcliff are really mean to each other (from what I remember) it’s also one of the saddest and most beautiful love stories around. To be mean and to hurt is to be human, and maybe ILIs can teach us something about dealing with and accepting that.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

One that is not maladaptive is what I intended to say, I suppose.

Yeah I agree with what you are saying.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

One that is not maladaptive is what I intended to say, I suppose.

everyone else is maladapive compared to narcs in terms of immediate survival. u are also painting a too specific picture. they can have various levels of empathy including none. this can also fluctuate within a person. and often their not admiting they are wrong doesnt mean that they dont care that they are. they also do not do everythng for themselves solely. people break harder than some objects and it may not cost as much for them to heal depending on what. often the people saying someone cant admit they are wrong are the narcs themselves. often the majority is always right. or wheover has authority. so people are narcs usually. they can get supply from caring for someone. at the same time they may not care about someone else bc they are not relevant in their life. then they can care about others but superficially instead of understanding why and how things wrok. following ideas that everyone else follows bc its convenient. there are those rigidly convinced. a narc may never admit wrong but still try to do things for you. they can hurt u bad but also take severe sacrifices for you. they may seem intentonally cruel but be confused. those things overlap each other alot. think about it why would someone fuck up their relationships so bad? them feeling good about it is their cope like haha yaeah all according to plan u are just weaker than me. its social ineptitude not understanding and fear. in the case of psychopath there is no fear and he can manipulate himself often so that his little care stops really easily. so he may not have intended bad but went that way said fuck it and made it worse. is it on purpose really. it sounds more like the are struggling to do the right thng. they are lying and gaslighting bc they cant process whats happening in their mind or they cant exernalize the truth. psychopath said he didnt even want to lie it made his life worse but the words of truth simply wouldn't leave his lips. he got better at that with time.

[End]

everyone else is maladapive compared to narcs in terms of immediate survival. u are also painting a too specific picture. they can have various levels of empathy including none. this can also fluctuate within a person. and often their not admiting they are wrong doesnt mean that they dont care that they are. they also do not do everythng for themselves solely. people break harder than some objects and it may not cost as much for them to heal depending on what. often the people saying someone cant admit they are wrong are the narcs themselves. often the majority is always right. or wheover has authority. so people are narcs usually. they can get supply from caring for someone. at the same time they may not care about someone else bc they are not relevant in their life. then they can care about others but superficially instead of understanding why and how things wrok. following ideas that everyone else follows bc its convenient. there are those rigidly convinced. a narc may never admit wrong but still try to do things for you. they can hurt u bad but also take severe sacrifices for you. they may seem intentonally cruel but be confused. those things overlap each other alot. think about it why would someone fuck up their relationships so bad? them feeling good about it is their cope like haha yaeah all according to plan u are just weaker than me. its social ineptitude not understanding and fear. in the case of psychopath there is no fear and he can manipulate himself often so that his little care stops really easily. so he may not have intended bad but went that way said fuck it and made it worse. is it on purpose really. it sounds more like the are struggling to do the right thng. they are lying and gaslighting bc they cant process whats happening in their mind or they cant exernalize the truth. psychopath said he didnt even want to lie it made his life worse but the words of truth simply wouldn't leave his lips. he got better at that with time.

I hate to be this way and if all your poor ass has is an ancient potato of a smartphone to work with here I fully get it but otherwise learn some basic formatting my dude. Break this up into paragraphs and whatnot. This literal wall of text is aesthetically displeasing and by extension hard to work through and thus most won't even bother to read past your first sentence!

You lack capital letters after periods, the spell check function clearly isn't working too well for you, and I'm detecting a bit of projection (not to insult you or anything it's a common symptom of attachment issues and all that), etc.

The aesthetics of your argument, how you present it, matters brother. If you can and wish to respond to this please take that into consideration. If you really are a master of as I am of than show it and earn my eternal respect thereby. Otherwise you are sadly yet another example of a broken version of thine own type. Useful to me in many ways because I need examples of them, but saddening because you are suffering needlessly and despite what you or others may say us ILI's do feel and do care far more deeply than many think we do.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

everyone else is maladapive compared to narcs in terms of immediate survival. u are also painting a too specific picture. they can have various levels of empathy including none. this can also fluctuate within a person. and often their not admiting they are wrong doesnt mean that they dont care that they are. they also do not do everythng for themselves solely. people break harder than some objects and it may not cost as much for them to heal depending on what. often the people saying someone cant admit they are wrong are the narcs themselves. often the majority is always right. or wheover has authority. so people are narcs usually. they can get supply from caring for someone. at the same time they may not care about someone else bc they are not relevant in their life. then they can care about others but superficially instead of understanding why and how things wrok. following ideas that everyone else follows bc its convenient. there are those rigidly convinced. a narc may never admit wrong but still try to do things for you. they can hurt u bad but also take severe sacrifices for you. they may seem intentonally cruel but be confused. those things overlap each other alot. think about it why would someone fuck up their relationships so bad? them feeling good about it is their cope like haha yaeah all according to plan u are just weaker than me. its social ineptitude not understanding and fear. in the case of psychopath there is no fear and he can manipulate himself often so that his little care stops really easily. so he may not have intended bad but went that way said fuck it and made it worse. is it on purpose really. it sounds more like the are struggling to do the right thng. they are lying and gaslighting bc they cant process whats happening in their mind or they cant exernalize the truth. psychopath said he didnt even want to lie it made his life worse but the words of truth simply wouldn't leave his lips. he got better at that with time.

I can't even tell whether you're trolling but you need a therapist. I'm not going to bother with trying to go back and forth with you about this, I have more productive ways to utilize my time.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

How and why most ILI's aren't Narcissists

Simple:
1. ILI in and of itself is not comparable to narcissism.
2. Statistically speaking, the majority of any type is not narcissistic.

Case closed, next.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Simple:
1. ILI in and of itself is not comparable to narcissism.
2. Statistically speaking, the majority of any type is not narcissistic.

Case closed, next.

thats plain wrong. case closed, next

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

thats plain wrong. case closed, next

Proof?

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Proof?

there is no such thing as proof. there are guesses and there are better guesses. u have no proof but ur trash at Ti so u wont be able to understand that. in other words u have no proof that proof is a valid concept in the way u think it is. u didnt give any proof urself.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

there is no such thing as proof. there are guesses and there are better guesses. u have no proof but ur trash at Ti so u wont be able to understand that. in other words u have no proof that proof is a valid concept in the way u think it is. u didnt give any proof urself.

Between 0.5 and 1 percent of the general population is diagnosed with NPD, a figure that has remained about the same since the term was established in 1968. So unless you're arguing that ILIs are that rare, that means the majority of them aren't narcissistic.

[End]

there is no such thing as proof. there are guesses and there are better guesses. u have no proof but ur trash at Ti so u wont be able to understand that. in other words u have no proof that proof is a valid concept in the way u think it is. u didnt give any proof urself.

No such thing as proof? Holy shit I now assert that you glow so righteously in the dark I can spot your ass from orbit! Please, I beg you, go to church and then seek therapy. Only a full on death cultist/glowie/wind-up toy believes that there is no such thing as an objective reality and thus no such thing as proof.

I am not intending to insult you or anything but I do lack the capacity to put this gently. There is an objective reality just as there is an objective morality. Learn about it, accept it, and adapt to win at the game we know as life. I want you and everyone I meet to win you see and right now I can tell you are going to lose and lose bigtime. I don't want to see that.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

No such thing as proof? Holy shit I now assert that you glow so righteously in the dark I can spot your ass from orbit! Please, I beg you, go to church and then seek therapy. Only a full on death cultist/glowie/wind-up toy believes that there is no such thing as an objective reality and thus no such thing as proof.

I am not intending to insult you or anything but I do lack the capacity to put this gently. There is an objective reality just as there is an objective morality. Learn about it, accept it, and adapt to win at the game we know as life. I want you and everyone I meet to win you see and right now I can tell you are going to lose and lose bigtime. I don't want to see that.

u are criticizing Carl Jung right now. he did way more than u ever will with ur bullshitting coping games.
life is not a game you win. you are a child who never grew up emotionally.

[roger557]

Between 0.5 and 1 percent of the general population is diagnosed with NPD, a figure that has remained about the same since the term was established in 1968. So unless you're arguing that ILIs are that rare, that means the majority of them aren't narcissistic.

Hello. The link in your signature doesn't work.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Hello. The link in your signature doesn't work.

Just fixed it Thanks

[End]

u are criticizing Carl Jung right now. he did way more than u ever will with ur bullshitting coping games.
life is not a game you win. you are a child who never grew up emotionally.

I see a very sad picture here given this projection. You must have been wounded quite deeply by someone of my type. I am sorry about that. My kind can wound people quite deeply if we try after all.

I shall pray for your soul and for this wound of yours to be healed. I would seek psychological help, but don't trust any therapist that wants to put you on drugs. They don't actually help solve the root cause of the issues. "Happy pills" are not the cure for trauma. As I've said, attachment issues are usually the root of the problem and they are caused by traumas (and no amount of drugs will fix them either hence why you don't want/need them). Innocuous sounding ones as well I might add. I mean, what's the harm in rich parents shipping their kid off to a prestigious private school at age 5 for 8 hours a day and then a 5-star daycare center for a few more after that as they grow their business with the intent to pass it onto said kids? Plenty.

Say you got adopted at birth by the most loving, caring, attentive people you could possibly imagine and they do everything they can to make it obvious how deeply they treasure and love you. How could that result in crippling attachment issues? It does and I could go on for hours. These examples do this for reasons that'd take me an essay to lay out and let's be honest, those kids were the lucky ones in our modern society. Most of us had a far worse time of it growing up. I'd bet yourself included.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Between 0.5 and 1 percent of the general population is diagnosed with NPD, a figure that has remained about the same since the term was established in 1968. So unless you're arguing that ILIs are that rare, that means the majority of them aren't narcissistic.

u dont understand statistics and factors. most narcs are not diagnosed. the diagnosed are only one representation of how the disroder is due to the bias of how everyone else thinks. with ILIs being covert and who knows what else

[Alomoes]

Alright, I actually read this thread this time. Turning over a new leaf part 3, actually read the thread so you understand the context of people going about. Part four is actually responding when quoted. Maybe this will be a two for one, but I don't know.

I have to say, this is very entertaining.

First, we have the person who says yes ILI is narcissistic. I would agree, but only because I have reasoned that all victim type people are narcissistic. By definition, victims have no problem giving their entire being for someone else. Why? Is it perhaps that they are that desperate for attention? Yes. At least in my case, I have goals that are entirely altruistic, but also entirely self serving. Altruism for personal gain, if you would.

Now here is a question nobody has asked. Is narcissism the same as narcissistic personality disorder? In my own definition, the answer is no. Narcissism is putting yourself first. You want to be first in line, and develop strategies for doing so. The strategy devised is victimhood.

Delta and Alpha could care less, they are world affirming. They have no purpose to push onto the world, and tend to worry about enjoying the world's pleasures instead. Anyone who annoys them can go sod off.

In truth, both are kinds of narcissisms. So yeah the argument is pretty silly.

And now my personal responses to this thread's inhabitants.

Scrawny Narcisist

I believe you ought to reconsider your position on ILIs, IEEs, and other such folks. I understand that you are reluctant to, but you've only met the kind of ILI that is incredibly aggressive, and, dare I say, aristocratic. There is the kind that isn't fundamentally broken or recovering from being broken.

A word of warning. I understand you want your independence, however, it is dangerous to bite everyone you meet. Some will double down, and then you'll end up at war. You will lose. I've fought wars like this, and they do not end well. Sadly, you appear to be a veteran of these social wars, so disarming you might take a great deal of effort, but it's probably worth everyone here to do. You appear to have knowledge of the motivations of humanity. Comparing and contrasting notes should be mutually beneficial.

I'll start by saying I disagree with your statement that narcissists are often not diagnosed. Assuming it is narcissistic personality disorder, I would assume that diagnostic criteria has to do with the extreme cases, which are comparatively easy to diagnose. It is not narcissistic personality disorder to be a bully. It is not narcissistic personality disorder to be mean. It is narcissistic personality disorder when you are so skewed and warped in that way that you are self destructive. This is incredibly uncommon. A person with NPD is literally trying to cover their own inadequacies in a manner that might lend them to gross amounts of envy. This is to the detriment of their social standing. You seem to have the opinion that narcissists get what they want. No, they often are ostracized from society because their personality is that extreme. Like being that guy at your friends birthday party who steals presents.

End

You seem to have gone off the deep end a while back, and while I don't understand it, my condolences. It is apt for a 1 enneagram to act in this way where you search out and attempt to destroy all forms of evil. I have nothing to say as you seem to be handling it quite well by not blowing up at VSN. Good job.

Shazaam

You appear to have the tolerance of a god, and a head on your shoulders. That's fairly good in a place like this.

Ikdhf qkb

I would recommend learning the folk psychology of VSN. It's very well developed, and thus would prove useful for comparison to actual theory.

Finally, a blurb on truth. You all seem to pursue the truth like rabid dogs, and guard it equally so. Why do you try and chase something that you cannot catch? Simply let it come to you, and then you can bask in its glory together, and you'll all probably be a degree happier.

I am obligated to post these messages to people because of my ethical nature. I am aware it's of a quality. Hopefully it is acceptable to the group here. It took a lot of concentration to read through all that, and is taking a lot of concentration to sift through all these unfamiliar names. If I mixed you up with someone else, my apologies, I believe I haven't, however my mind is quite scatterbrained, and I make mistakes constantly. The reason for that is a tangent, and I've already spent a good three hours writing this up. My first post in a while, I think I did better than before.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Now here is a question nobody has asked. Is narcissism the same as narcissistic personality disorder? In my own definition, the answer is no. Narcissism is putting yourself first. You want to be first in line, and develop strategies for doing so.

I didn't ask because I knew the answer. It's not the same. However, traits of narcissism are the same as those of narcissistic personality disorder. In order to be diagnosed, one must feel a subjective sense of suffering from these narcissistic traits. Most of the time they don't, they're fine with being that way. You can't diagnose someone for being an asshole. That is not what a disorder is. Narcissism is basically just a set of traits, which exist on a spectrum. Narcissistic personality disorder is experiencing difficulty because of those traits.

[Alomoes]

That's debatable, see, not all narcissists are assholes and not all assholes are narcissists.

[youfloweryourfeast]

The problem is if all your doing is taking from others and using others just to get to a higher place, than that's when it becomes a problem..
Of course someone can learn to ask for favors from others and not drain the life out of them. There are people though that can take advantage of others with out caring which I see as lacking empathy. They could be so disconnected that they only become aware of their behavior when you finally tell them. narcissists feel shame they feel guilt because this soon enables them to start to be aware of their image. The problem is some will feel this shame but won't change.

[Renna]

If a narcissist is an ILI, he/she’s just being unlucky because there’s almost no good tools for the act of being narcissistic. He/she would be an unsuccessful Narcissist.