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    Quote Originally Posted by Nataraja View Post
    You've never driven a car but you've been in a car. Have you ever felt uneasy that you didn't have control of the car that you were riding in? Did you have fear of being near traffic or riding in a car after these accidents?
    No, I didn't have any problems with not being in control of the car, I use cabs all the time. I heard here that Se-egos have problems with it, but I also took a cab with Se-doms, I don't know what they feel inside, but if a person does that all the time, then I think it doesn't become an issue. Hence, I don't think this says anything imo.

    I didn't even have any fear when car was hitting me, it happened when I was 12-13, I skipped school, then I was grounded at home, I wasn't suppose to go out, but I skipped home as well, they didnt know that though. I just went to some places and when I decided to return home, traffic lights were far away, I was going to be late if I walked, so I decided to go across the road. I passed one car, then realized I am not going to pass the second one. Then I decided to jump on it, so I don't get under it. It hit me, my body smash their window, it didn't break but shattered. They try to convience me to go hospital with them. But I didn't want to get extra punishment, so I took a cab there to go home. Tax driver was very anxious, he said one guy was also a hit by a car at the exact spot like many others and died in his cab due to internal bleeding. I thought nothing would happen to me probably because I was too young. Then I went home. End of the story. I didn't have any fear afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    No, I didn't have any problems with not being in control of the car, I use cabs all the time. I heard here that Se-egos have problems with it, but I also took a cab with Se-doms, I don't know what they feel inside, but if a person does that all the time, then I think it doesn't become an issue. Hence, I don't think this says anything imo.

    I didn't even have any fear when car was hitting me, it happened when I was 12-13, I skipped school, then I was grounded at home, I wasn't suppose to go out, but I skipped home as well, they didnt know that though. I just went to some places and when I decided to return home, traffic lights were far away, I was going to be late if I walked, so I decided to go across the road. I passed one car, then realized I am not going to pass the second one. Then I decided to jump on it, so I don't get under it. It hit me, my body smash their window, it didn't break but shattered. They try to convience me to go hospital with them. But I didn't want to get extra punishment, so I took a cab there to go home. Tax driver was very anxious, he said one guy was also a hit by a car at the exact spot like many others and died in his cab due to internal bleeding. I thought nothing would happen to me probably because I was too young. Then I went home. End of the story. I didn't have any fear afterwards.

    Wow that's a crazy story lol. But yeah I agree that this line of questioning isn't really going anywhere. I think a lot of the lack of fear you were feeling was just disassociation from the shock of the event.

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    I thought these things were there because of Se-polr or low Se or non Se valuer:

    I am not super active, I can stay in one place for a long time. but could be Te ignoring.

    I have difficult time changing the state I am in. If I am on relaxation period I tend to stay there. If I am working, studying or on fire in other ways, I tend to stay there.

    When I want to change something about myself, it could be behavior or I may want to do something to achieve a goal or something I want, I can tell if I am going to make it or not. For example, if I want to go coffee-free, I can tell if I am going to be able to cut it or not. If not I mentally prepare myself. Then when I get ready, it looks sudden on outside, however, I do some tricks to get myself there.

    I don't anticipate an attack and therefore I don't attack without any reason to anyone.

    I don't show off my status if I know I am better than everyone on that environment.

    I am not impressed by someone in position or a person who has some status just because of this. I also don't respect people just because of this.

    I can add more later, if I remember other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike View Post
    I notice that when you talk about power structures, you never seem to talk about them in an objective way. There is the power structure, the people involved, your position within it. Your achievements are not completely independent from those, but puts you at a certain place in the power structure. You don't seem to talk about this in a way that recognizes these structures and manipulates them to your advantage. In order to do that, you have to detach from your personal views, opinion, deduction, whatever it is, and interact with the power structure as a power structure. Use it against them, for you.
    It goes like this ceo>gm>director>manager>.... My manager favours one coworker due to his relationship, so it is clear that she has the upper hand due to other things. There are lots of other directors that reports gm. I was not supported by my own department. I didn't try to get their good graces if this is what you are saying. I chose to work with other departments instead since they are also connected to gm. I earned a promotion and also an opportunity that I want to use more than having this job. There are lots of other details but what I did worked better than I can imagine but how could I manipulate it otherwise in your opinion?

    If this is not what you are saying, can you give an example? because right now I think I did what you described in the best way possible, but my main purpose wasn't to use it against them, it was about this thing working for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike View Post
    When they say it will make you look bad, its not because your opinion, or you as a person would be 'bad'. Its an image thing, it makes it seem that you don't respect the different position of different people. Ultimately, we are all human, but in a corporate structure, there are unwritten rules in how to interact, depending on culture and so on. It's not personal, its not about whether it makes sense to you or not. It's there as a structure of organisation, and a way to manage complexity of the business as a whole.
    Many people fail at their position, so I'm not critisizing you for saying some of it doesn't make sense. But it has a purpose regardless.
    Ofcourse I don't respect people who tries to block me. I am not going to act according to those people's words or unwritten rules, especially if it benefits them and puts me in a bad position.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike View Post
    I can see that as confusing. I don't think this excludes Se PoLR though. Se dom would never get bullied in the first place, or at least they'd make it stop, because they instantly recognize what it means for them in terms of the position they have to others. You needed more people to join in before seeing that, and then acted on it. Se ego would see through it without more people joining, if they even get in that position to begin with. IMO.
    Bolded part is not true, I have seen it. They may or they may not stop it, it depends. These kind of statements started confusion for me. Because if that was true, then Se-polr doesn't suppose to do it either, it goes both ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike View Post
    Yes, getting in their good graces helps.
    We get a department score, then sum of everyone's score divided by number of people has to be equal to that score.

    Now, I told you that he is having an affair with one of my coworker. He won't score me higher than her, when it is up to him. It is that simple.

    So this isn't going to work at all. Also I don't kiss ass and why would I? With my method my ass is got kissed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike View Post
    Recognize who has power and who has not.
    I recognized it. That's why I worked with other departments.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike View Post
    It doesn't have to be apparent in the organisational structure either. Sometimes people in non-important positions can move the whole organisation by their actions. Knowing what strings to pull to get something done. Manipulating the relations between people to get somewhere, get their idea in, move the organisation somewhere. I don't see anything like that in what you're saying.
    I cannot see how you cannot see. I told you I worked with other departments and they mentioned my name to GM. That's how I earned good graces of GM..


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike View Post
    Sometimes its better to be in a bad position if it gains you favor. You might not like it, but it is how it is. Knowing which people to play out against each other by establishing relations with them and knowing what they like and do not like, thats part of it.
    We were having meeting with gm, director, manager, he is already saying things that bad about me, since other departments gives me good feedback and mentions me to GM and he wanted to shine his lover. So it wasn't those times.

    If I did what you are telling me right now, I would be a ass kisser who got no promotion, works more than other person but not appreciated as much, I would be a sucker.

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    If you don't mind, rate the following from 0 to 10 (they are very general and abstract but that's the idea)


    Systematic (you make systems for everything)
    Casual (you go with the flow on most things in life)
    Planful (you like to plan)
    Open-ended (you are open minded about changing your routine and life)
    Early-starting (you like to do today what can be done today, you like to anticipate work)
    Pressure-prompted (you need outside pressure to move forward with projects that are not your passion)
    Scheduled (you have an agenda)
    Spontaneous (you act before thinking instead of thinking before acting)
    Methodical (you tend to follow methods and procedures created by yourself or others)
    Emergent (you derive things in a natural and organic process)
    self-discovery
    self-development
    optimism
    relationships
    communication
    high ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike View Post
    We just think very different about these things. I don't think you're ending up in a good position in the way you do things when all is said and done. That is all.
    I see. But I already did those things, I ended up in the best position. This is happened, I don't assume it, I know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    I think it is exactly that, pop culture reference. However, I don't know how this is different than any other kind of reference. If someone can do this, they can do other kind of references for other things if they get into it.
    When you said you don't know how it is different from any other reference, my brain suddenly got tired out.

    But I think I follow - there are other kinds of references, such as sharing art or music that describe you or another person. Or, when someone says "Your presence reminds me of another person I have known". As with the knowledge of pop culture or movie genres you first have to understand the essence of the two objects in order to compare them.
    It can be prior study, memory of a subject that allows the references to be made and intuition does not need to be involved - what reverie said about goodreads.

    It's interesting to think of how Se-polr shows itself in people who have high Will in psychosophy. A typing thread can be considered a consensus seeking, but as you said above, having strong valued Ti means you figure out your own type eventually, after gathering more data.

    In your job do you ever hesitate/hold back on delegating a task to someone else because it feels like that would be ordering them to do something you could easily take upon yourself? Do you relate at all to preferring to complete a task to your own satisfaction rather than impose that on someone else?

    It's kind of a two-fold question - do you feel uncomfortable pressing someone, knowing that by doing so you're quickening their course of work and altering their own inner state?

    Hopefully those questions don't seem loaded or like an inquisition You don't have to answer if it's uncomfortable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyStoleMyBike View Post
    Your knowledge is not absolute. Neither is mine, I don't know you, your situation or anything. You're in the best position according to your assesment of the situation, which might be flawed.
    GM offered me to open my company and he said he would support me, I think it doesn't get better than that. I haven't heard such a thing, wasn't expected. I may not be able to do it though, there are lots of complications, unknowns etc. I am trying to dig something right now.

    I understand that you don't know the situation.

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    I have a feeling this is going to be a long discussion that leads to the final decision being LII.




  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    When you said you don't know how it is different from any other reference, my brain suddenly got tired out.

    But I think I follow - there are other kinds of references, such as sharing art or music that describe you or another person. Or, when someone says "Your presence reminds me of another person I have known". As with the knowledge of pop culture or movie genres you first have to understand the essence of the two objects in order to compare them.
    It can be prior study, memory of a subject that allows the references to be made and intuition does not need to be involved - what reverie said about goodreads.
    On how you describe other forum members page, LSI(pandemic candy) said one's presence reminds him a character, I forgot its name. So I don't know.



    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    It's interesting to think of how Se-polr shows itself in people who have high Will in psychosophy. A typing thread can be considered a consensus seeking, but as you said above, having strong valued Ti means you figure out your own type eventually, after gathering more data.
    Hopefully. About strong will, one IEE posted a post about it 2 years ago, linked his blog, but now it is gone. He said strong will is about self control and static types generally more prone to have it, since they rely on their own, if I remember it correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    In your job do you ever hesitate/hold back on delegating a task to someone else because it feels like that would be ordering them to do something you could easily take upon yourself? Do you relate at all to preferring to complete a task to your own satisfaction rather than impose that on someone else?
    I am not prone to delegate a task if I want it to be done in a certain way sometimes. I prefer to do it myself to be sure.

    My current workplace is very lazy. I had to make people work for something required, I mailed them, called them. Some returned, some didn't. I called one person everyday a few times although he never picked up. He wrote walls of text, but didn't do the job. After some days, he picked up, he thanked me and did the job. Now someone else doing this for months %25 of the job is done. I did it in 10 days.

    There are times that I hold back a bit. It generally depends on the communication I have with that person. Example: There is one guy at this workplace. He is a good guy, a bit lazy. He likes to talk about other things, when I directly get into business, he says he cannot do it at first. So I talk about TV shows a bit, a bit crypto, then I ask it again, he says he is busy, but it would take only 15 min max. I get a bit angry inside, but I hold it back, because he is a good guy and he actually helped me a lot on some cases, like a knight. So I try to do some sweet talk then make him do it instead. But sometimes I am having 1 hour calls with him, so he can do a 15 min work. One day I lashed on him very bad though. We are good, he didn't take it that bad. I was going to use this as an example about what I don't like about Ne/Si. He is only capable to do what he finds interesting, too lazy to do what is required even it doesnt take much effort.

    This is not what you asked but a bit related imo and this is me doing things in a Ne/Si-ish way imo:

    My previous workplace was highly competetive, ranks mattered a lot, project managers were generally pushy and demanding in an unnecessary way. So when I was managing it, I used gamification methods. I wanted everyone to have fun doing it. I also used competition tactics but more in a game-y way. I wouldn't describe my managing methods in that period as harsh, pushy or demanding in any way. They were more easy to do what is required.


    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    It's kind of a two-fold question - do you feel uncomfortable pressing someone, knowing that by doing so you're quickening their course of work and altering their own inner state?
    If we have equal position and in the same department, if I am friends with them, then yes I feel uncomfortable. However, I do it if it is necessary.


    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    Hopefully those questions don't seem loaded or like an inquisition You don't have to answer if it's uncomfortable.
    It doesn't feel like that at all. Good questions.

    I also saw the one you deleted

    I can order beverage even I am having a meeting with CEO, I know people generally don't do it, I can see it in their face, but I am shameless about these kind of things

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    There are times that I hold back a bit. It generally depends on the communication I have with that person. Example: There is one guy at this workplace. He is a good guy, a bit lazy. He likes to talk about other things, when I directly get into business, he says he cannot do it at first. So I talk about TV shows a bit, a bit crypto, then I ask it again, he says he is busy, but it would take only 15 min max. I get a bit angry inside, but I hold it back, because he is a good guy and he actually helped me a lot on some cases, like a knight. So I try to do some sweet talk then make him do it instead. But sometimes I am having 1 hour calls with him, so he can do a 15 min work. One day I lashed on him very bad though. We are good, he didn't take it that bad. I was going to use this as an example about what I don't like about Ne/Si. He is only capable to do what he finds interesting, too lazy to do what is required even it doesnt take much effort.
    This is exactly how my LII colleague deals with a certain project purchaser in the company who apparently is very hard to work with and who will on a whim decide whether to help people with their important project purchases or not, and will get sour and refuse to help if you try to go behind her back and get someone (who can't do it without her help anyway) else to help her. He'll sit on a call for an hour or two discussing pleasant things with her and meanwhile she may or may not do the job the LII has requested, but the chances are much higher than otherwise.

    My solution to this would be to tell this person do their fucking job, if they don't, I'll find someone else or do it myself. I won't let things like "only this person knows how to do it or has proper access" stop me, there's always a way if you've got the will. For some reason, the few times I've personally asked her to do something for me, she's done it immediately without issues.

    Anyway, I think the Se polr manifests as a reluctance to break social rules, offend people by being directly rude, and especially not wanting to stomp over the will of other people. For example, this person not wanting to do something - Se polr will not simply directly tell them to do it, they will try to persuade and 'soften' the approach. They don't lack willpower as in self-control, they just respect the freedom of others too much to be able to force their will on them. Another way this manifests is 'accepting their fate' when someone has provided them incorrect service (wrong meal, wrong or defective items, bad quality work, etc.), this is where their duals come in as ESE is the most likely type to go complain to a service provider about poor service or return defective items to the store.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    My solution to this would be to tell this person do their fucking job, if they don't, I'll find someone else or do it myself. I won't let things like "only this person knows how to do it or has proper access" stop me, there's always a way if you've got the will. For some reason, the few times I've personally asked her to do something for me, she's done it immediately without issues.
    When one coworker was trying to sabotage my project. He called me and told me what she was doing. She asked him for materials to find a gap in my project, so it would stop. I told him to give whatever she asks because I knew there was no gap. However, him doing this kind of thing melted my heart I have a soft spot for him because these kind of things.


    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Anyway, I think the Se polr manifests as a reluctance to break social rules, offend people by being directly rude, and especially not wanting to stomp over the will of other people. For example, this person not wanting to do something - Se polr will not simply directly tell them to do it, they will try to persuade and 'soften' the approach. They don't lack willpower as in self-control, they just respect the freedom of others too much to be able to force their will on them.
    There are times I stumpted on it. But I don't feel good about it always definitely. I know this guy wouldn't do that to me and he had my back so I cannot do that to him. Except one time, I slipped and released anger

    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Another way this manifests is 'accepting their fate' when someone has provided them incorrect service (wrong meal, wrong or defective items, bad quality work, etc.), this is where their duals come in as ESE is the most likely type to go complain to a service provider about poor service or return defective items to the store.
    I don't return things that are cheap like things from supermarket. I return other things if they cost more, etc. However, if I got a wrong meal, then I correct them.

    We were having a lunch with coworkers: ESI, EII, me and some others. Everyone got what is asked but not EII. I asked it when it is going to come for her. Then they brought wrong meal to her. She seemed dissatisfied, said that she cannot eat the things on half of the plate, she was having a diet. Then I said let's ask them to change, she said nothing. Then I was looking for a waiter and EII said it is not that important and it is not necessary to change it, however, her face was dissatisfied as hell. So I asked the waiter to change it. Then, EII and ESI said it was unnecessary, me going against EII for EII bothered them both. I thought I broke some Fi code.
    Last edited by myresearch; 09-22-2021 at 11:16 PM.

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    Found Ne description:

    potentiality of object - inherent possibilities, purpose, abilities, talents, structure, construction, diagram or internal map of object
    Positive(short range):
    Prospects, opportunities, positive potential, essence, essence, the principles, new ideas, promotion of hypotheses, the theory, an insight, interest, originality, singularity, unreality, belief;
    Negative (long range):
    Hopelessness, alternative, negative potential, absence of essence, senselessness, the paradox, overlooked old, serost, the mediocrity, the suppressed opportunities, disbelief, sensation.
    I can give dozens of examples how I apply the aspects of positive short range.

    the theory, belief, insight: I develop my own theories, insights about things, they all generally point to the singularity. For example, I have my own belief system that I created,it is based on we are all one. Another one: at workplaces and relationships, if people are isolated, it means that place or relation is toxic and corrupted. In isolated systems, people start to control each other in a toxic way and they don't themselves don't want to get out of it after a while if it is bad to them because they know they are on their own toixc world at some level. Which is perfectly explained by entropy. Since everything is the same, all laws of physics and chemistry applies to other things as well.

    Prospects, opportunities: At workplaces, I generally develop a software or some kind of a system. I started to do this when I first start to work, I noticed I wasn't improving much, there is no opportunity to excel fast either. So I thought about making a product so I can develop my skills I also wanted to test how much I can excel in that company and if doesn't work out, I thought finding jobs would be much more easy. So this worked and I kept doing this because it offers a win win scenario for me, opens different kind of probable opportunities.

    positive potential: I recognize it in people and objects, how they can reach their potential. For example, at work if we are using a tool, I can find a way to improve it, so it can do things that it wasn't able to do it. Another one: I encouraged one of my friends to apply to other jobs because she was very unhappy and unappreciated in her job, also her career path seemed limited and didn't seem to suit her. So I also made some suggestions about that. It could be about simple things sometimes, such as improving lifestyle, general happieness (for example getting some hobbies), looks etc

    I also consciously changed myself over the years since I was a kid, because I want to be the best version of myself, reach my highest potential. For example, I spend my time alone for few years and then I spent most of my time going to different kind of places with different kinds of people etc because I thought this was the best route to that, then changed my opinion and did the reverse

    promotion of hypotheses: I test it out when I have a hypotheses, this could be a social thing, a work thing. I do tests to see if they are true or not to get reassurance, after getting some, I introduce such things to others.


    Apart from that, I related ILE potrait of Beskova more than 4DTi types, but I know noone thinks that is possible

    I also think I fit to Ti-dom IJ temp more, however, in my social life, at parties, at outside, I can be EP-like. However, when I broke ILE typing to its IEs, I don't see how I can be Ni ignoring, Te-demo, Fi-polr
    Last edited by myresearch; 09-23-2021 at 07:22 PM.

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    Honestly @ThatGuyStoleMyBike beat me to the punch lol i agree with his reasoning. But I’ll just add an extra opinion.

    However, @myresearch, you come across playing with Ni games more then Se games. Like a puppet master playing with the strings. Poking, prodding, seeing what may get a reaction from a detached view. The understanding of Se is there but I don’t think the robust will of „Se Powerplays“ is there. You are assertive but, I don’t feel a hot fire of Se will power coming from you. More like a delicate black widow. In the Sense, your power doesn’t come from force but from manipulation of the board. I think when put on the board with Se players, I think you would feel overwhelmed when forced to use it and feel very rigid. Not having to relax or having to be extremely uncomfortable with pushing force into others. You have to be hands on in the most uncomfortable way.

    Plus, you grew up in a decent Se environment. I have this theory that your demo becomes real strong when growing up in opposite/different quadras to keep the pressure of your Polr.



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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    There are times that I hold back a bit. It generally depends on the communication I have with that person. Example: There is one guy at this workplace. He is a good guy, a bit lazy. He likes to talk about other things, when I directly get into business, he says he cannot do it at first. So I talk about TV shows a bit, a bit crypto, then I ask it again, he says he is busy, but it would take only 15 min max. I get a bit angry inside, but I hold it back, because he is a good guy and he actually helped me a lot on some cases, like a knight. So I try to do some sweet talk then make him do it instead. But sometimes I am having 1 hour calls with him, so he can do a 15 min work. One day I lashed on him very bad though. We are good, he didn't take it that bad. I was going to use this as an example about what I don't like about Ne/Si. He is only capable to do what he finds interesting, too lazy to do what is required even it doesnt take much effort.
    At this point there is nothing constructive I can add that would suggest you are another type with strong Ti. It wonder if your responsibilities in the workplace, too, have helped to balance out your functions.

    Have you thought about the intertype relationship between you and the colleague mentioned above - whether your ITR could contribute to the patience you have to spend extra time on the phone with him? even taking into account the influence of Se-polr on you putting your foot down.

    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    I also saw the one you deleted
    That's because you are sharp/lucid and don't seem to miss anything. I think that might be non-type related though.

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    Se polr of LII might be a bit misunderstood, they CAN be forceful at times, it's just the typical thing with polr that it is volatile, not able to judge the application precisely or select the best situations to act. Typically LII will make use of their demo Ni to avoid problems related to Se, anticipating difficulties in advance and creating contingencies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Se polr of LII might be a bit misunderstood, they CAN be forceful at times, it's just the typical thing with polr that it is volatile, not able to judge the application precisely or select the best situations to act. Typically LII will make use of their demo Ni to avoid problems related to Se, anticipating difficulties in advance and creating contingencies
    Nice, this is a concise and neat example to understand the demonstrative function in relation to the polr.

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    If you are not LII, you probably are SEI. Seem alpha introvert.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


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    I've always thought polr was like an extreme strength of something as well.... like I have Te polr but at work they said I came off as scary authoriative like and ultra business-like lol.. probably because polr is conscious- but its like I hated focusing on it and wish society didn't value it so much as it's pretty annoying to me. It's probably why I got promoted so quickly but blah it's stupid that people get gaslighted so easily over that shit to me and I wish all the power was given to the most innocent and lovable Alpha with down syndrome or something because I don't really value or care about that shit. "Hello, I'm acting like an overly serious douche in a business suit. Give me all the power now."

    I think Se polr can translate to somebody being haughty and arrogant a lot of the times- for kind of a similiar reason. My LII dad was always really bull-headed about being right (and to be fair he almost always was ) And he could be really pushy/stern in that rightness. And same thing with SLE and Fi polr- they can get REALLY morally self-righteous about certain things, in a way that comes off strong/overbearing.

    A true strength/ego function- I think somebody is just naturally more 'chill' about it either way.

    Then again, yeah- I have met LIIs (usually male) who are just weak nerds who can't fight or play sports even worse than I do and just wanna be protected.

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    @BandD

    I gotta start using Te like you BandD! I get way too rigid with Te and I don’t like it when I am stressed. I think that would be easier. I usually start using Se for them to get off my back. I was a cold cold employee to my old LSE/SLE manager I ain’t letting no power hungry man pull shit over me in his stupid tittle or uniform
    Anyways I have to learn to figure out how to appear more Te like in those instances so I can be seen as a little more competent



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    My thoughts while reading: Probably not LII, probably something else. Something that doesn't have Fi role either, so not LSI. Could be LIE or something. Something democratic, low Si and low Fi, so ILI and ILE are possible too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    If you don't mind, rate the following from 0 to 10 (they are very general and abstract but that's the idea)


    Systematic (you make systems for everything) 10
    Casual (you go with the flow on most things in life)
    Planful (you like to plan)
    Open-ended (you are open minded about changing your routine and life)
    Early-starting (you like to do today what can be done today, you like to anticipate work)
    Pressure-prompted (you need outside pressure to move forward with projects that are not your passion)
    Scheduled (you have an agenda)
    Spontaneous (you act before thinking instead of thinking before acting)
    Methodical (you tend to follow methods and procedures created by yourself or others)
    Emergent (you derive things in a natural and organic process)
    I can't rate them this way Mega Every single of them can be interpreted in different way. They seem too broad to sort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    My thoughts while reading: Probably not LII, probably something else. Something that doesn't have Fi role either, so not LSI. Could be LIE or something. Something democratic, low Si and low Fi, so ILI and ILE are possible too.
    About LIE:

    My mother is LIE>LSE. She does lots of things in a day. It could be all work related, she can be on the computer or other things. She get things done everyday. Very action oriented. She is also very factual in a way that she ignores the feelings of others.

    Example:

    My aunt's husband got into a tough surgery a few days ago. I called her to learn how they are doing and in that period when we were having a call, they delivered the news, she told me. She got happy and I got happy, then she said insurance is important. I think it is bizzare kind of a thing to think in that situation. But I know she is coming from a good place.

    Then there are other arrangements had to be done. She helps, some people are sad and cannot do anything atm, she cannot understand it, she says they have to take x, y, z action, why don't they. She made a plan to arrange their home for his new conditions, she stayed in the hospital. She also decided to sue other hospital that lead this kind of a thing happened. She called some lawyers to decide etc, etc. She took too many actions in a few days.

    I cannot multitask in this kind of a way.

    Other than this: My grandmother has cancer and when my aunts were crying on some occasions. She said she can die while they are crying. She is telling the truth but not in the moment that is necessary. I can see how she fails at some kind of F everytime.

    Can you explain why you think I don't have a Fi role?

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post

    Can you explain why you think I don't have a Fi role?
    The stories you told about completely ignoring what other people requested, both work and personal is what made me think that. It's like their requests made no difference to you at all. The girl asking you not to talk to the waiter but you ignored her request was particularly an overstep. The work situation is more understandable. But, I find it hard to imagine an LII or LSI acting in that manner at a restaurant. I could see gammas acting like that (ILI less so) and could also picture an ESE "taking charge to take care" so to speak, but it doesn't fit so well with LII/LSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    At this point there is nothing constructive I can add that would suggest you are another type with strong Ti. It wonder if your responsibilities in the workplace, too, have helped to balance out your functions.
    It might. But I think it was mainly my nurture, I had an unusual one and I witnessed too much things that most people don't due to my parents, for example I interacted with lots and lots of different kinds of people as a kid. Some life changing things happened in my life that affects my psyche. So I probably have enhanced and/or repressed functions. I just can't distinguish which is my main valued function. I like and dislike some aspects of both Se/Ni and Si/Ne. I will write them down later.

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    Have you thought about the intertype relationship between you and the colleague mentioned above - whether your ITR could contribute to the patience you have to spend extra time on the phone with him? even taking into account the influence of Se-polr on you putting your foot down.
    I think he is Si/Ne-dom, but I am not sure which one, probably not SEI though.

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    That's because you are sharp/lucid and don't seem to miss anything. I think that might be non-type related though.
    I thought you were being thoughtful to extract it, but I am ok with anything you ask and it was a good question. Lots of people get anxious when someone come in asks if they want anything at meetings sometimes even if they have a high rank. However, most people who have the highest rank doesn't have any problems with it. I understand where they are coming from but it is just a beverage and we are all human imo

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    I could see LIE for you too lol- which would put you in the opposite quadra you thought you were in which may seem weird but logically that typing kinda makes sense to me. Although yeah your mother could just be rubbing off on you as well- the types of our parents does influence our own type I think.

    I could see you supervising IEI but then again- almost everybody loves to supervise and act superior over IEIs lol cuz we are often soft & cuddly and kind of 'instrisically vulnerable' like they said so hard to tell if it's true supervision at times or just sorta... the natural state of things. 5-year-old girls probably supervise me. =D xxfx types are naturally more supervisable than xxtx types anyway especially in 'murica probably. I admit growing up I was victimized/scapegoated a lot and I had to be REALLY aggressive and bitchy more than I felt comfortable with just to make people leave me alone. I wish I was much more brutal with others but that is where my dual comes in.

    The main thing that stops you from being a LII in the purest sense to me is you just don't seem as weak or pussy-ish as most LIIs I know. I wish there was a better or 'nicer' way to say that- but it's like the most obvious thing to me. Maybe it's you being enneatype 5 as well... and you are trying to integrate to 8 and so that conflicts a lot with being Se polr. Women like the thewholeenglish girl (ugh I forgot her screen name exactly...but she did a video with JoA I think) come off a lot more stereotypical LII than you.

    You know you best- I'm not sure you relate to Gamma values despite appearing LIE-like at times.

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    I can be Te-creative because they have Ti-demo and Ip temp may make me think I don't use Te that much but it is more probabilistic for me to be a Se-dom than Te-dom I can't be EJ if I am then what is socionics.

    I don't care who went to which school, what kind of a job line they have etc. My Te sucks much more than my Se. I was all about having fun before I start to work.


    I gave too many work examples, that changes perception, but giving friendships and romance examples are tricky. If I do that, this thread can be my own confession thread lol

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    You just do not exchange dry factual information as default. No visible Te for you.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

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    I haven't read through most of these responses yet although I did read some of your original posts, @myresearch. From interacting with you in the chat I felt like you had aggressor vibes, so could see LSI.

    However I've noticed Ne can sometimes come off as more assertive over writing than they are in person.I know a couple of LIIs who are extremely expressive and even aggressive over their social media, then when you meet them in person they're quiet and non-confrontational. They assert with their words, but not their presence, if that makes sense. Do you relate to that at all? You might have already addressed this and I missed it...

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    If myresearch is LIE then I am SEE.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aria View Post
    I haven't read through most of these responses yet although I did read some of your original posts, @myresearch. From interacting with you in the chat I felt like you had aggressor vibes, so could see LSI.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aria View Post
    I haven't read through most of these responses yet although I did read some of your original posts, @myresearch. From interacting with you in the chat I felt like you had aggressor vibes, so could see LSI.

    However I've noticed Ne can sometimes come off as more assertive over writing than they are in person.I know a couple of LIIs who are extremely expressive and even aggressive over their social media, then when you meet them in person they're quiet and non-confrontational. They assert with their words, but not their presence, if that makes sense. Do you relate to that at all? You might have already addressed this and I missed it...
    All my friends and family members, acquaintances describe me as confident and assertive. I am more confrontational in my personal life than here or at work.

    I can be quite and talkative, it depends.

    In terms of presence, this is a recent comment I got:

    When I was waiting for a friend I was looking to the window of a shop and my back was towards to where she is coming from and street was crowded. She came and said you have a so clear presence I noticed who you are from a far.

    I have one close LSI friend. My IEI friend knows MBTI we talked about me being another type and we compared LSI friend and me. I am going to post it later.

    Some of them:

    She can't cope with low level of uncertainity and I can. She is more precise than me, I overthink things more. When I generalize things further, she sometimes says I look from above and it is actually due to simple things that can be Ti or Ne for example she and someone were talking about law and how it can be more meaningful as a career more than what we do, then I said law isn't justice, then she thought this is bird eyes view. I will give details later.
    Last edited by myresearch; 09-24-2021 at 07:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    All my friends and family members, acquaintances describe me as confident and assertive. I am more confrontational in my personal life than here or at work.

    I can be quite and talkative, it depends.

    In terms of presence, this is a recent comment I got:

    When I was waiting for a friend I was looking to the window of a shop and my back was towards to where she is coming from and street was crowded. She came and said you have a so clear presence I noticed who you from a far.

    I have one close LSI friend. My IEI friend knows MBTI we talked about me being another type and we compared LSI friend and me. I am going to post it later.

    Some of them:

    She can't cope with low level of uncertainity and I can. She is more precise than me, I overthink things more. When I generalize things further, she sometimes says I look from above and it is actually due to simple things that can be Ti or Ne for example she and someone were talking about law and how it can be more meaningful as a career more than what we do, then I said law isn't justice, then she thought this is bird eyes view. I will give details later.
    That will be interesting to read

    Hmm, issues of presence and uncertainty. Yes, I think Ne PoLRs have a hard time with uncertainty although both of those things could be related to other personality factors, so may or may not be sociotype related.

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    What do you think about Gulenko cognitive styles @myresearch ??

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    Myresearch's final typing : EII-Fi (Ti role with Te suggestive), also intuitive
    self-discovery
    self-development
    optimism
    relationships
    communication
    high ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aria View Post
    That will be interesting to read

    Hmm, issues of presence and uncertainty. Yes, I think Ne PoLRs have a hard time with uncertainty although both of those things could be related to other personality factors, so may or may not be sociotype related.

    About uncertainity:


    If I haven't done something, and if in a workplace, someone asks me if I can do such a thing, then I say yes and do it.

    For example there was an article about calculating different risks, our director asked me if I can systematize this theory and make it a tool out of it, I said yes, but I had no idea how to do it. My senior ESI was there also, maybe he asked him first, then our director turned to ESI and said to him, you see..

    Then ESI asked me how I plan to do it, but I had no idea and when he realize that, he got very frustrated from my confidence that I think I can do it without knowing how. I did it btw in 3 weeks, they sell it now.

    My confidence about this based on this:

    In college, we had one big project supported by a big company, we connected different electronic devices, used different kinds of algorithms and it didn't work. Then we went to our professors to get some help, however, they couldn't solve it. Due to the different devices we use, when I googled it, google gave no results. So I didn't know how to solve it. Then I disambled pieces one by one, detected the problem and solved it. This thing boosted my confidence, I thought I can do anything. Because our professors were good at what they are doing worldwilde, ofcourse they could solve it if they worked on it themselves, but seeing I could do something they cannot at first glance and in the place of no outside knowledge, did the trick for me, boosted my ego


    Me vs LSI friend on uncertainity:

    Example 1:

    When I quited, I extracted some files, however, it is against procedures and we all know this, so I was afraid that they can trace it and ask me how or why and sue me. Then I talked with other people, they told me they all did it and nothing happened. Then I did it, I got anxious a bit, but I did it

    LSI also wanted to do the same, she took photos of it so it cannot be traced back to her. She didn't directly downloaded some files just because she think they could catch her.

    Example 2:

    When we were at parties unrelated to work, I can go and speak to other people. Sometimes we see some group is having too much fun, loud laughters draw us in. In those circumstances, I just go and talk to them, she cannot do it. I think it is because she fears rejection which is something relatable. However, if that happens, I believe I can say something back to save my face lol She comes and joins when she sees it is ok.


    Example 3:

    Again related to example 2, in workplaces, I am more open about talking different kinds of things. I think she holds back sometimes, because she doesn't want to do or say something that can jeopardize the respect that other people have for her. I think I don't care as much and I believe I can turn the tables if it bothers me.

    Example 4:

    She also did something she never did and she did a great job. Her work is always awesome anyways. However, I also like to throw myself and get challenged in this regard, although I know it can go sour. I sometimes do stuff I have never done at work, without anyone asking me. She accepts it when it is given to her. So this is the difference.

    I will mention similarities and differences in other aspects later.
    Last edited by myresearch; 09-26-2021 at 12:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    About uncertainity:


    our director asked me if I can ____________________________, I said yes, but I had no idea how to do it.
    not NE polr..... !

    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Then ESI asked me how I plan to do it, but I had no idea and when he realize that, he got very frustrated from my confidence that I think I can do it without knowing how
    Cause NE polr.....

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    ESIs don't perform well under pressure like that though, LSI does better ime.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Then ESI asked me how I plan to do it, but I had no idea and when he realize that, he got very frustrated from my confidence that I think I can do it without knowing how. I did it btw in 3 weeks, they sell it now.
    By hammering my head to a metaphoric wall as usual is the answer.

    But this is more in Fi territory of incompetence rather than in Ne.

    LSI PoLR is closer to <<...drum roll...>> sending people deemed as loose cannons based on weird hunches to Siberia... OK, not all LSI's are Stalin but I hope you get the point.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
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    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

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