INTJ or something else?

[solipsist]

The more and more I read about the INTJ the more I believe I am one, but I would like another opinion on the matter. It might just be that my J is somewhat weak, but I can hardly be described as a rigid organizer. I tend to inadverteny devise plans without thinking, oftentimes put alot of time into thinking them out and then don't even bother following them at a whim of a feeling to do otherwise. This tendency seems a bit more P to me but I am not sure. People often do describe my conceptions somewhat rigid, and I don't hesitate to argue my point with anyone if I believe I'm right. I will argue untill the other person gives up at times if I am absolutely certain of something (well, depending on the situation, if I am fairly comfortable.) I also can be somewhat critical of ideas and tendencies I view as "illogical" or just plain silly.

My friends I believe do view me as somewhat cold and stoic, I am able to hold my composure quite well unless the situation becomes really awkward for me, and even then I don't project very much. I'm not exactly very easy to please either, I am always somewhat dissatisfied with my friends and wish I could be "optimizing" my time by spending it with people I related to better. That is likely just my INTJish nature.

However the one thing that concerns me is I'm not really very disciplined in terms of some responsibilities, I can be very lazy. I will agonize about doing an assignment, and end up procrastinating and not doing it at all if I really don't want to. My room is an utter mess, all the time, except just after I've cleaned it...which isn't exactly very often. I try not to be late and keep appointments but occaisionally I'll just bail out on my friends if I don't particularly feel like going anymore; but that is likely due more to my introverted nature.

My interests include: Science (biology, mostly, but I excelled in physics) ; anime/manga, sci-fi and fantasy books, also writing sci-fi or fantasyish stories, philosophy and logical conundrums and paradoxes and generally I am fascinated by how things work. Ever since I was a kid I'd take things apart to try to anaylze how it did the job it did, then I'd try to put it back together, with little avail. I was usually so curious I'd pretty much gut whatever I was looking at.

So, I'm not entirely sure. Do other INTJs fall to lazyness and mismanaged time like I do just to satisfy their comfort or ease?

edit: Every test I have taken, even years ago, has come out INTJ. But, I'm always somewhat skeptical if I'm somehow projecting a set of skills I'd prefer to have on to my asnwers. Then again, perhaps my desire to be so definite about the issue may indicate that I am indeed a J.

[Rocky]

Yes, you do sound like an INTJ. The diffrence between J/P is more complicated than the MBTI definition. The functions are one big diffrence between INTJ and INTP.

Here's how I break it up:

Dominant
Creative
Dual-Seeking
Hidden Agenda

INTJ

Left||Right
| Fe || Ne | Front
| Te || Se | Brain

| Ti || Si | Back
| Fi || Ni | Brain


INTP

Left||Right
| Te || Se | Front
| Fe || Ne | Brain

| Fi || Ni | Back
| Ti || Si | Brain

The functions for INTJs and INTPs are very diffrent.

[Angel von Himmel]

Every test I have taken, even years ago, has come out INTJ. But, I'm always somewhat skeptical if I'm somehow projecting a set of skills I'd prefer to have on to my asnwers. Then again, perhaps my desire to be so definite about the issue may indicate that I am indeed a J.

Take the functional analysis in my sig below and attach the link to this thread, so people can see what your weak and strong functions are and how they relate the types.

link: http://socionics.wsphere.com/socionicstypetest.html

[Creepy-solipsism]

Every test I have taken, even years ago, has come out INTJ. But, I'm always somewhat skeptical if I'm somehow projecting a set of skills I'd prefer to have on to my asnwers. Then again, perhaps my desire to be so definite about the issue may indicate that I am indeed a J.

Take the functional analysis in my sig below and attach the link to this thread, so people can see what your weak and strong functions are and how they relate the types.

link: http://socionics.wsphere.com/socionicstypetest.html

I took the test and I got INTJ again
here are my results:

my strong functions are:



Weak functions:


Hidden Agenda:


Main Function (strong):

[solipsist]

err, nevermind, my results are here:

http://socionics.wsphere.com/cgi-bin...036623421.html

I didn't realize they saved the results for you.

[Rocky]

How could Se be the strong function for an INTJ? And it looks like your dominant function is Ne. That doesn't seem to add up.

[Angel von Himmel]

err, nevermind, my results are here:

http://socionics.wsphere.com/cgi-bin...036623421.html

I didn't realize they saved the results for you.

You are very close to being INTp and very close to being INTj according to the analysis ... the type in the big lettering is what you could possibly
think you are, but the functional analysis seems to be arguing that there is a good possibility that you are actually INTp with your results.

The functional analysis also says that according to your results
your hidden agenda is , which is associated with INTp ... however
the INTj hidden agenda is , not ...

On the other hand, you have a highly dominant , which is INTjs secondary function. This could be the reaso you feel that you are more likely INTj.

If you want what I feel the test means, it is saying that there is a good chance you are really an INTp. But, what matters is what you feel. If INTj seems like it is more up your ally, then I would go with that.

[Rocky]

Try to learn the functions above and how they work. Superficially INTPs and INTJs are similar, but have totaly different values functionally.

If you are heavier on Se and Te, and have a hidden agenda of Fi, then you might just be INTP like rmcnew said.

[Angel von Himmel]

How could Se be the strong function for an INTJ? And it looks like your dominant function is Ne. That doesn't seem to add up.

No, it does not ... it is all open to intrepretation; I really designed the results to give an interpretation with the power to allow you to choose for yourself in the end. I never ment for the test to type anyone at all, just give them info to decide for themselves.

[Angel von Himmel]

It could also be possible the he is really ENTp and not INTj ... ENTps get typed as INTjs alot and ENTjs seemed to get typed as INTps alot. I think it has something to do with the typology test incorrectly reversing their main functions and saying the are extroverted when they are really introverted and introverted when they are really extroverted and vice versa.

[Rocky]

It could also be possible the he is really ENTp and not INTj ... ENTps get typed as INTjs alot and ENTjs seemed to get typed as INTps alot. I think it has something to do with the typology test incorrectly reversing their main functions and saying the are extroverted when they are really introverted and introverted when they are really extroverted and vice versa.

That might explain the Se a little more. I'm just going to post all the types to compare their functions.

ENTP

Left||Right
| Fe || Ne | Front
| Te || Se | Brain

| Ti || Si | Back
| Fi || Ni | Brain


INTJ

Left||Right
| Fe || Ne | Front
| Te || Se | Brain

| Ti || Si | Back
| Fi || Ni | Brain


INTP

Left||Right
| Te || Se | Front
| Fe || Ne | Brain

| Fi || Ni | Back
| Ti || Si | Brain


ENTJ

Left||Right
| Te || Se | Front
| Fe || Ne | Brain

| Fi || Ni | Back
| Ti || Si | Brain


ISFP

Left||Right
| Fe || Ne | Front
| Te || Se | Brain

| Ti || Si | Back
| Fi || Ni | Brain


ESFJ

Left||Right
| Fe || Ne | Front
| Te || Se | Brain

| Ti || Si | Back
| Fi || Ni | Brain


ESFP

Left||Right
| Te || Se | Front
| Fe || Ne | Brain

| Fi || Ni | Back
| Ti || Si | Brain


ISFJ

Left||Right
| Te || Se | Front
| Fe || Ne | Brain

| Fi || Ni | Back
| Ti || Si | Brain


ESTP

Left||Right
| Fe || Se | Front
| Te || Ne | Brain

| Ti || Ni | Back
| Fi || Si | Brain


ISTJ

Left||Right
| Fe || Se | Front
| Te || Ne | Brain

| Ti || Ni | Back
| Fi || Si | Brain


ISTP

Left||Right
| Te || Ne | Front
| Fe || Se | Brain

| Fi || Si | Back
| Ti || Ni | Brain


ESTJ

Left||Right
| Te || Ne | Front
| Fe || Se | Brain

| Fi || Si | Back
| Ti || Ni | Brain


INFP

Left||Right
| Fe || Se | Front
| Te || Ne | Brain

| Ti || Ni | Back
| Fi || Si | Brain


ENFJ

Left||Right
| Fe || Se | Front
| Te || Ne | Brain

| Ti || Ni | Back
| Fi || Si | Brain


ENFP

Left||Right
| Te || Ne | Front
| Fe || Se | Brain

| Fi || Si | Back
| Ti || Ni | Brain


INFJ

Left||Right
| Te || Ne | Front
| Fe || Se | Brain

| Fi || Si | Back
| Ti || Ni | Brain

[solipsist]

I don't think I'm extroverted. I can deal with people well enough if need be, but I don't exactly get a charge or anything from it. I usually find it drains me... but I can't spend long periods of time alone before feeling "guilty" or like I'm "wasting" my time.

[Rocky]

I don't think I'm extroverted. I can deal with people well enough if need be, but I don't exactly get a charge or anything from it. I usually find it drains me... but I can't spend long periods of time alone before feeling "guilty" or like I'm "wasting" my time.

Then which functions fit you better, INTP or INTJ?

[solipsist]

I feel more INTJ than INTP. I'm usually pretty composed and unemotive, and I lack empathy for others. I argue my opinions adamantly if I am confident in them, but I'm always second guessing my abilities. I'm willing to entertain any idea, as long as it proves to "fit" and "make sense" with what I'm incorporating it into.

[Rocky]

Then maybe you are INTJ, but your functions seem to point towards INTP. Your Se was almost as string as your intuition which would just seem odd for an INTJ. Also, you have a strong Te with hidden agenda for Fi. These are INTP.

[solipsist]

When I was younger I was alot more soft and sensitive, I don't really feel that way much anymore, although it really bothers me if people think I'm stupid or an asshole.

I don't really feel very Se, I'm usually not very alert of my surroundings and my ability to read people I attribute to intuition most of the time, and relating their feelings to my own and how I would act or feel in that situation. I'm usually not the most observant person in terms of picking up details.

I'm wondering if I just learned to develop more J tendencies as I got older, but at the same time I've always been really good at getting a feeling of how some people act and are, quickly deciding and judging if I want them to be a friend or not. My judgments are usually spot on too, usually months later after I decided someone wasn't worth my time, a few of my friends will follow suite agreeing with me down the road.

I also love science and how things work, especially biology and things that explain aspects of life and other organisms. I love clear cut answers for things but at the same time don't get frustrated with big questions which seem to have no asnwers. I'll willingly mull those over just as much because thinking about them alone gives me something satisfying. That seems a bit more P to me, but I'm no expert on the subject.

[Rocky]

Then for some reason the test was wrong in giving you a strong Se... you still sound like an INTJ.

[Angel von Himmel]

It is impossible to say the test is wrong in determining , because it used the information provided by the test taker. The only reason it gave out high was because the test taker said they had high .

Now, it is possible that the test taker misunderstood the questions that the test was asking. But, there is a hugh consistency in data on the test and this is a highly unlikely senerio in my opinion.

Now, I am not saying the test is perfect. But, I do not believe that the test was necessarily wrong in giving out or or whatever when the test taker tells it to give them that.

[Creepy-]

It is impossible to say the test is wrong in determining , because it used the information provided by the test taker. The only reason it gave out high was because the test taker said they had high .

Now, it is possible that the test taker misunderstood the questions that the test was asking. But, there is a hugh consistency in data on the test and this is a highly unlikely senerio in my opinion.

Now, I am not saying the test is perfect. But, I do not believe that the test was necessarily wrong in giving out or or whatever when the test taker tells it to give them that.

I was dissatisfied with the evaluation of Se so I took the test again. The last time I was finding it kind of hard to focus and was less attentive. The results this time seem a bit more concrete:

Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm seeing what I want to see within myself, or seeing what is actually there. The INTP profile doesn't sound quite like me, I'm too impatient and would rather have things set and determined in advance and follow that predetermined method as closely as possible (unless experience proves otherwise)

I'm also far too stuck in my own world to be very conscious of the outside world, I was always bad at reading road signs and paying attention to things like that with driving or anything else.
http://socionics.wsphere.com/cgi-bin...620568269.html

[Angel von Himmel]

is INFps agenda, and the test still disagress that you are INTj because it did not consider the results concrete enough to make an analysis.

I still think you are INTp or INFp ... you can try to make the test say INTj, but in the end it will just resist because it knows your subconscious wants you to believe that you are INTj even though your subconscious is telling the test diffrently.

[Angel von Himmel]

your conscious wants you to believe that you are INTj, even though your subconscious is telling the test diffrently.

I accidently said subconscious when I ment conscious

[science as magic]

This is why I don't like type testing...

You sound like an INTj because you exhibit a lot of Ti such as being concerned about whether or not you are being logical, continuing conversations in order to "prove your point", and so forth. Type testing will always be inefficient because behavior and type do not correlate to each other directly but rather behavior can be seen as functional expression. Type is the "ordering" of importance of functional data but that does not mean functional expression corresponds to importance always because depending on the situation you are in some functions are of more use than others. Hope that helps.

[Angel von Himmel]

@Pedro -

Did you even bother looking closely at this typology test? It does not really type anyone, it calculates some inofmation and makes several arguments for or against several types and then leaves you alone to decide your type for yourself.

And the type in BIG blue lettering is a calculated type based on what the test taker thinks of themselves, and may not actually be what they really are ... the test tries to cue people in on that and either informs them they could be another type after it has analised their functions or totally agrees with them.

So, in the end it is still up for the test taker to decide type; whether it is the right type for them or not.

And also, everything you said about what Solipsis demonstrates has a question on the test. I can show you if you want.

@solipsis

If you think you are INTj, you are INTj ... no one can decide your own type but you.

[science as magic]

I'll check it out. It was just a criticism to explain some of the things you didn't mention earlier when you were talking about subjectivism in interpretation

[solipsist]

I had some trouble with the types of questions like "would you prefer to believe than to be loved" etc, because I had trouble understanding which context they were meant in. That might have to do with my strange "hidden agenda" because sometimes since I wasn't sure I would pick conflicting answers. Like, to believe rather than to know. Does that mean would you prefer to know you are right about something? or to believe you are but still know you could be wrong? Or does it have nothing to do with that and more to do with things that cannot be proven true or false? I had the same problem with the "to understand" questions, sometimes I had trouble differentiating.

All I know is I like to know where I'm going, and always form rudamentary plans, whether I follow them or not is one thing, but I'm always the first to ask in a group setting "OKay, what are we doing now?" so I can be certain and form a plan for doing so. Other people are more content to fly by the seat of their pants, I feel as if I always need some form of intellectual foresight to plan out what is going to happen in the future so it never catches me off guard. And when it does catch me off guard, or my logic is proven false, I feel crushed and somewhat foolish. I tend to prefer predetermined direction, whether I decide to follow it or not usually comes down to how I feel about the particular thing.

Those tendencies make me feel I'm an INTJ, plus my love of science and the ideas behind how something works. But, for some reason I never feel comfortable classifyng my self as any type specifically. It's not that I disagree with "labels" per se, I just don't want to find out down the road that I was wrong all this time.

[Angel von Himmel]

I had some trouble with the types of questions like "would you prefer to believe than to be loved" etc, because I had trouble understanding which context they were meant in. That might have to do with my strange "hidden agenda" because sometimes since I wasn't sure I would pick conflicting answers. Like, to believe rather than to know. Does that mean would you prefer to know you are right about something? or to believe you are but still know you could be wrong? Or does it have nothing to do with that and more to do with things that cannot be proven true or false? I had the same problem with the "to understand" questions, sometimes I had trouble differentiating.

All I know is I like to know where I'm going, and always form rudamentary plans, whether I follow them or not is one thing, but I'm always the first to ask in a group setting "OKay, what are we doing now?" so I can be certain and form a plan for doing so. Other people are more content to fly by the seat of their pants, I feel as if I always need some form of intellectual foresight to plan out what is going to happen in the future so it never catches me off guard. And when it does catch me off guard, or my logic is proven false, I feel crushed and somewhat foolish. I tend to prefer predetermined direction, whether I decide to follow it or not usually comes down to how I feel about the particular thing.

Just do not worry about the agenda questions, those need to be reworded. The only people that score on those consistently as their real agenda are ENTps,ESTps, and some ENTjs ... Feeler types acrost the board seem to keep getting as their agenda. The fact that you got and as agendas could be a mere coincidence.

Those tendencies make me feel I'm an INTJ, plus my love of science and the ideas behind how something works. But, for some reason I never feel comfortable classifyng my self as any type specifically. It's not that I disagree with "labels" per se, I just don't want to find out down the road that I was wrong all this time.

ISTps have been known to say similar, but that could also be a coincidence.

[solipsist]

ISTP does sound somewhat like me too, but my only qualm with it is that I am fairly creative. When I write stories, which is my hobby I take most seriously, I usually end up sculpting my own scientific laws and ideological structures to explain all the happenings of the story. I'm usually incredibly perfectionistic about it too and if something doesn't fit quite right from my perspective I scrap the whole idea right away. These so called "laws" are usually fairly complex and I just build up upon each other, adding tiny components at a time if I decide they "fit."

I hear sensors aren't quite as creative, and more focused on the here and now, and what is actually present rather than what could be present. I tend to focus more on the could be's, and my ideas usually do come from abstract relations and my intuition. Most of the time I'm more interested in fiction and what could be than what is actually there.

edit: I'm not exactly very active either. I play videogames alot, which I hear ISTp's do, I usually prefer RPG's and adventure games. But usually RPG's for a more devloped story, but I like all kinds.

edit 2: Other than the love of sports and stuff I am beginning to wonder if I am ISTp. I do often decide to do what I would prefer to do at the current time rather than what I "should" do, although I have a very strong sense of "should." I often feel like I'm being pulled in two directions, one by my ambition and obligation, and in another from my preference to be comfortable and recognize and stimulate my needs. Even if I've already been doing too much of that and need to buckle down. I tend to look for excuses to not do what I should be doing, if I really don't want to. Say I will procrastinate with other things untill I get tired, then I'll just decide my need for sleep is too important and go to bed. I can buckle down if it is a very important assignment and I know I have to do it one way or the other, but I'd usually prefer to put it off and pursue my own interests instead. I also tend to research whatever catches my fancy for long periods of time, but I'm sure that isn't solely characteristic of ISTP.

edit 3: The more and more I read about the ISTp the more I question which I am. On the 16 types profile I relate to both almost equally. In the likes/dislikes column for INTj I do love alot of the thing it describes, for instance:
# non-conformity
# dreaming
# mysticism
# eccentricity
# freethinking
# idiosyncratic feelings and belief systems, worldview, and approach to life
# odd habits
# self-direction
# independence
# the occult
# the extrasensory
# the supernatural
# abstract and speculative thinking

Overall I feel I relate most to the INTJ interests, and yet...

in terms of ISTP I find I respect and admire:
# conniving
# manipulation
# exploitation
# being a loner
# autonomy
# strength
# victimizing others
# being predatory
# breaking the rules of society
# looking out for oneself
# being an aggressor
# getting what you deserve

In terms of dislikes I relate most with the ISTP:
# routine
# boredom
# being abused by society
# a "dog-eat-dog" world
# exploitation by others
# weak and vulnerable people
# being a victim
# being a patsy or wimp
# being a "have-not"
# being attacked
# not getting what you deserve

But I also greatly relate to alot of the INTj "dislikes" aswell. I'm wondering if I perhaps am one or the other but adopt alternate tendencies because I respect them more than the ones I have been granted.

As I am sure all of you know, my examples of the "list" of likes and dislikes have all been taken from

http://www.the16types.info/types.php

[Creepy-]

I've decided on INTj. I am much more intuitive than I am sensing and the things I find really important I am endlessly perfectionistic about (my writing)

My judging personality is also a bit too prounouced to be an INTp.

The main quality that made me doubt this was my laziness and my interest in adventure, however I think that is more of an intellectual interest than the kind I would strive for. I attribute it to my love of fiction and how overboard some of it can get with the adventure aspects, which causes me to strive for similar (although fictional and impossible) experiences.

[science as magic]

When I am around my INTp friend I am like that too. His influence got me dreaming of living in a houseboat and so forth but naturally I prefer being more "grounded." When I am not my abilities, happiness, and mental acuity decline rapidly. Consider your surroundings also when trying to compute your type.