I need help finally figuring out what my enneagram is.
Am I a type 4? Or a type 2? Or something else?
Eudaimonia's Enneatype Thread
I need help finally figuring out what my enneagram is.
Am I a type 4? Or a type 2? Or something else?
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Oh hey, was downstairs, one second.
Here is a full PDF of R&H's book: https://archive.org/details/TheWisdo...GrowthForTheN/
https://www.9types.com/
https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
https://www.personalitycafe.com/thre...eliefs.735770/
If you meant you want a more individual appraisal, I would say you need to provide information. Enneagram deals with fears, and drives, motivational information. What types are you considering?
I can't decide I've taken those crazy quizzes with the pictures and words, like Katherine Fauvre's and I've scored as 4 and as 2. Those are the one's I'm stuck on.Originally Posted by Freedom
I always sore Sx first and Sp last.
I'm going to take the 9types quiz and see what I get.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
I've had the 4-5-8 tritype and the 2-9-6 tritype. I think it depends on my mood.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
I would decide core type first. Try to determine which one resonates most with you, if you're between the three Heart types, then contrast them individually. 2, 3, and 4 all have their differences. 3 is detached from their emotions, however 4 must work through emotions before accomplishing tasks, for example.
Last edited by Father Freedom; 09-16-2021 at 07:04 PM. Reason: Elaborated
Tests are not my cup of tea, but the classic one on this site is not terrible: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test
Oh ok I'll take that one too I took the 9types one and got this. But I don't really relate to 3, I have to work through my emotions.
https://imgur.com/QCD4sPL
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Interesting. Yeah, if you don't feel any of the literature on 3 applies to you, don't let a test sway you. 2 is very other oriented, they receive gratification from others. 4 is individualistic, it is a constant introspection on the self, discovering their unique personal identity. Think of someone like Prince (Who inspired RAIN) as a potential EIE 4w3.
They all seem to sound like me, I'm going to have read through it.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Yeah, think through it. It isn't so much finding how you think (like Jungian Typology), more so why you act. An LSI 6 seeks security, LSI 1 seeks to actuate their ideals, LSI 8 to enforce their Ti agenda without fail. Think Stannis (1) versus Tywin (8).
Four seems like a good fit. Tricky because 4 and 2 are strongly connected.
This short article talks about the defense mechanisms of the types. For Fours it's introjection and Twos it's repression. https://theenneagraminbusiness.com/t...the-enneagram/
I had a good friend who's a Four, and she was sensitive to the things people said even if it wasn't directly about her. If she heard someone say, "Oh, so-and-so does 'x' and acts like 'x,'" my friend would be like "Oh, I do that too," and then she would deeply internalize it almost as though it was an indictment. Often she'd brood over it for a bit. Don't know if you relate, but when I think of introjection, that friend immediately comes to mind because she was very much a Four.
I think you stereotypically come off as a 4 but I think in real life you have a lot of 3-ish quality it seems- in real life it seems like you try to 'fit in' a lot more than you do here maybe, like you are good at doing what society wants/expects of you I think. Even if sometimes you get mad or frustrated- you easily understand what society expects from you and how to placate their ideals. Which is a 3-ish thing.
You will always have to 'work through your feelings' I think because you're a feeling type and that is more socionics related to me than enneagram related.
I'm not as open and crazy in real life. I come off very normal and polite. I come off as a typical pussy ass NF that looks all sensitive and smiles warmly at strangers. Sometimes I don't like the things I say about myself on here because I know I don't want my face attached to the words that are etched on this site forever. Yeah, like the stuff about my sexuality and sex life. I don't talk about that with anyone irl.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Me reading this like, "Oh crap, I do that too. Am I sensitive to what other people say even if it isn't directed at me? I need to watch out for this, damn. I hope I don't do that..."
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell猫が生き甲斐
I think you probably need to stop beating yourself up about not living up to some standard you think the world is being put on you. You sound like a nice person you should be proud of that.
What about 3w4?
That's the type I thought you were based on your forum behaviors and posts.
I agree with BandD that you seem aware of what society expects of you and you take this to heart even if you also may feel rebellious about it. This fits 3w4 rather well imo.
But this is just my own opinion, you gotta know what's true for you. I find that while listening to other's input about one's type might be useful, most opinions of people on the internet are just 'noise' since they don't really know you offline. They have some image of you, and if you're like me, it's easy to adapt to whatever others expect of you once an image has been created in their minds, creating a feedback loop.
I talked about it in the chat window yesterday and it came down to 3w4 and 4w3. I'm still kind of unsure but I think the consensus was that I was a 4 with a strong 3 fix. I don't know what fixes are, but I guess that makes sense.
I do feel enormous social pressure and status and accomplishment are really important to me. I mean I do think that it's ironic that I'm asking other people to type me and trusting their consensus and I'm supposed to be a 4. Maybe I don't understand the type, but I thought it was a individualistic, self-defining type.
This is something I have a big problem with. I can sometimes feel like different people depending on the situation I'm in, I can trick myself into believing I'm a certain way. It's made typing myself in socionics difficult in the past. I will say that even if there are inconsistencies and contradictions on here, this is a pretty genuine representation of who I am with out any social pressure since it's anonymous.They have some image of you, and if you're like me, it's easy to adapt to whatever others expect of you once an image has been created in their minds, creating a feedback loop.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Almost all EIEs self-identify as enneagram 2. Like, 90%.
A fix refers to tritypes if I'm not mistaken, though 4 with a strong 3 fix couldn't exist (as per the theory) simply because those are two heart center types and tritype has a type from each center (heart, head and gut). I'm gonna guess that "fix" just meant wing in this case.
I too would think 3s are more likely to be confused about their self-type than 4s, yes. But some people are just easier to type than others. Probably because typologists often use images and while sometimes the type fits the person's self-image, sometimes it does not.
I personally would say you are more 3w4 than 4w3, though I suppose 4w3 is fine too. You probably have the social instinct in first or second place which can make you more conscious of the need to play a role and into others' expectations towards you.
Ok, I think I'm going to say I am 3 now.
I think like @BandD says I will always be working through my feelings and I think I was getting thrown off by that, thinking I had to be 4.You will always have to 'work through your feelings' I think because you're a feeling type and that is more socionics related to me than enneagram related.
I scored 3 when I first took the test in high school and it always made sense to me and then I later on I rediscovered it and I liked 4 more.
I'm reading more about 3 and the wings and 3w2 does sound like me but 3w4 does too.
I think I'm like a 3w2 in the streets and a 3w4 in the sheets.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
What do you all think about this image? Is it accurate?
I think I definitely go to 9 under stress, this forum is an example. I think I'm 3w4 because I want success but I also want a career that defines me the best. I think that's 3w4. I think a 3w2 would be ok just being successful in any field.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Both of these are image types and I think the thing to remember about image types is that they well. . .need to project an image! With 3s it is the image and idea that one is successful. They do that through career success, achieving a lot of really social impressive social connections, through having an impressive high paying job, etc. But this also extends to their physical appearance, am I projecting to others that I am successful and accomplished? Moira Rose from the show "Schitt's Creek" is a really excellent example of a 3w4 who learns that she is more than her image while simultaneously still being in the habit of projecting that image.
Type 4, on the other hand, feels a deep sense that there is something somehow *wrong* with them and they need to project an image into the world that shows others that essential wrongness. It is like "I am out of place, I'm weird, and this is a bad thing, and I need to express this brokenness to others aesthetically". 4s are going to do that online but they're also going to do it in person, the differentness they feel is a source of shame (like not being seen as successful is a source of shame for the 3) and so their image becomes a way of expressing, elevating, and exemplifying that alienation. A lot of 6s initially misidentify as 4s because some 6s are really fucking weird, but they band together in that weirdness. 4s don't want to band together because banding together with other weirdos as an expression of identity/image undermines the underlying sense that they are essentially *different* and out of place.
It may also help to record yourself answering a series of questions and then seeing how your body language is, narrow down the triad based on that body language, and then determine core type from there. I'm solidly a head type, when you watch videos of me answering questions you can very obviously observe that everything is being processed through my mental facilities. I posted that video but you can see it in my eyes and facial expressions very clearly. Gut types are automatically aware of their bodies and the ways that they are physically taking up space/existing as a physical presence in the world. They tend to have this sort of stillness or stiffness or deliberateness in their movements. Even 8s (Trump is an example of an 8. I absolutely despise the guy, surprise, but he is an excellent example of the way a gut type talks and takes up space). The heart types/image types tend to talk or speak in ways that are subconsciously aware of how they are being received by others. A head type like a 6 or a 7 might be *concerned* with how another sees them but it is still being processed primarily through the head center. Heart types are going to modulate image, mannerisms, voice, basically everything to convey the image they want to their audience. If you *are* an image type try to have someone else ask you these questions. Image types are, on some level, deeply aware of how they're being perceived by others and so even "personal" videos, writings, etc have a touch of "what if someone sees this" but it can really come out when other people are around.
Based on our limited interactions, you don't quite strike me as a 4 but I could definitely see you being an image/heart type. I definitely don't think you are a head type though and if you are a gut type it'd probably be 9 based on the limited amount of data I have available, but I don't see that for you either. In the chat the other day you said something along the lines of liking being told who you are IIRC which is a very 3 thing to say and not at all a 4 thing. But I may be confusing you with someone else because my memory is not the best. If you aren't an image type, I think you'd be a 9. I'd probably guess 3w4, 369 but I'm working off the limited information I have and my own intuition.
@RegalBeagle I think your comment pretty much sealed it for me. That was a very clear way to explain the differences between the two, thank you.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Could you explain this more to me please? I'm not sure what you mean.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Ok, that helps clear things up for me, thank you. Yeah I relate a lot to that.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
So with 3s the idea of what success "looks" like is set at an early age. Drag queen Trixie Mattel is a really nice example of what "success" looks like which is being "not poor" for a SP dom (I don't agree with people who think she is a SO dom). Likewise, for my brother, who is also a 3, his definition of success is people who are close to him being impressed by his material possessions and job status (he once showed me his new, expensive car while drunk and when I wasn't super impressed by it admitted that all he wanted was me and dad to think he made it and be proud of him). For my brother, his idea of success is the men in his family saying he made it. That's also very SP 3. SX 3s are going to be more drawn towards their image being seductive as EIE said but it is sort of like "look how my mate/passions/influence on things" resonates and crafting that. An SO 3 might seek an attractive and desirable spouse to elevate their social status, an SP 3 might seek out such a spouse to signal their material and job success, but an SX 3 might seek an attractive spouse to signal how their sexual magnetism draws that inwards and signals however they think of "success". It is that primary instinct intersecting with the image of success that formed at an early age that leads to this.
To put it another way, I'm pretty sure I'm an SX/SO 6. I derive security and certainty from being able to attract people I perceive as stronger, more intelligent, and more successful than myself. The SX drive displays itself fully by my ability to hone in on who I believe is drawn to me and utilize that. There are some unfortunate implications there, but there you go, my security is situated in my ability to both entice *and* repulse people and have them protect and provide for me. This relies on a lot of CP tactics and forwardness but falls back into phobic tactics when I want a guy (or guys) to prove to me that they're into me and like many SX 6s, if they fail the task a couple times they get cut loose in the first few months of the relationship (and mind you, this is operating subconsciously). When a "target" rejects me it is a huge blow because it threatens my idea that I can attract and retain a mate or mates who will protect me and even in more casual settings it engenders anxiety because it causes me to doubt my appeal. SX extends beyond merely attracting sexual partners but there is a clear concern and pattern of behavior that amounts to "am I standing out? am I attracting others?" that expresses through types.
An SX 3, comparatively, is going to see their success through the lens of their ability to attract those of interest. One-to-one is not a great way to look at the SX instinct since intimacy is in the realm of social. SX is about that magnetic attraction and utilizing that in conjunction with the ego construction of your type. So an SX 3 is going to externalize their success (and this is why I talked about SX 6 and security) through how that image of success attracts AND repels other people. But how you see success is going to be subjective. It could be using wealth or social status or awards to magnetically draw in your targets, awards, etc. SO 3s and SP 3s again, project this image to but to different concerns. A SP 3 will become extremely anxious if their lifestyle is threatened and a SO 3 is going to become extremely anxious if their social connections/place in their group's social hierarchy is threatened. And I don't mean dire threats, I mean like. . .super minor shit can trigger this anxiety. An SX 3 is going to be deeply troubled/neurotic about their ability to use success to be magnetic. The strength of the 3 though is that because of their fixations they can do really well in SP, SO, and SX realms; just which of those causes the most anxiety depends on which instinct is dominant.
Ok sx sounds like me and 3 sounds like me. I think I've got it right this time. Thank you. I mean it sound shallow and a little antisocial but I can't lie, that's me lol.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
I definitely think 3! 3w4 sx/so seems right, from what I’ve read from you on here
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