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Thread: ILI narcissism and learning to get along

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    Talk about narcissistic, I always think about this guy, not sure get destroyed by your own dual is a good thing or not:


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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    Ted Bundy. No it doesn't require 2d Fe. No, you can't say that any type can be equally hard to get along with, just like u cant say that any person could do what an ASPD would do in the same situation. There are differences and labels to describe them. ASPD requires someone arrogant and self absorbed to place his wellbeing above others. It has high comorbidity with narcissism. Apparently there's a book where the narcissism of INTJ is discussed somewhere in the site. Have you heard of the term "transactionary relationships"? someone already said thats how they handle it here. It said the same on the links. They can be charming, helpful, stoic, bold, cool, calm, well put together calculated logicians not afraid to stand for what they believe and face conflict. U seen ILI pics, dragons, muscles, warriors, darkness, gold, some kind of abstract piece that's supposed ot communicate how they are less bound to something simplistic but something ascended and spirtitual, or a meme to cover up, u get it. They are of the hot villains females like to be raped by. That overflowing projection of power and domination to make you weak. They identify patterns with Ni and use Fi to stab u in the mushiness.

    Imaigne being manipulated without even knowing their serpentile eyes not giving u a hint because u completely missed they are empty inside. All the Te gifts and achievements all the glamor all the promises. What an useless bitch u are. Incompetent and incapable. Stupid weak pathetic. u were struggling with no hope for the future in the world Te assholes created. Then this angel comes to save u and give u everything. He is capable and caring. Unlike you stupid whore. U deserve to get abused. Works u then shames u taking advantage of ur vulneraiblities, Yet he still stays with you and says he loves u. He takes ur abilities to do things because u are incompetent, this way making sure u stay that way. then he fucks u forcefully. Shows u everything he's achieved to slap u about not measuring up. Any act of independce, of trying to grow is trying to cheat or swindle him. He makes sure u never be able to get away from him. Yes slaughter and torture in their sadistic overlord rituals while fucking their SEE whores who may be next which makes it even hotter.. Ruin the boyfriend's life while pretending to be the hero who's gonna take care of her. Or help her while she has a bf which makes the INTJ incel jealous so he ruines him then rapes her.

    I may or may not have gotten material of some alt right sects. what was the people's types there? I could have never guesesd all those people commenting the losers deserved it and survival of the fittest on torture vids where who they were. Why do ILIs want a soft bean submissive gf? "where are the women of old". blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne. Join us brother! Deus vult!


    I wish ILI on average can just be as good as 1/10 of what you have discribed. I almost think my type is a superhuman class lollllll
    Last edited by Tarnished; 09-13-2021 at 05:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    I find ILI typically quite bad at being charming and manipulative. All of that stuff is Fe and that is their PoLR. Even though yeah they can be very mean sometimes or dark str8 man edgy like that, I don't think many of them could manipulate their way out of a paper bag. It is quite difficult for white trash ILI males to be both charming & cold like that because they make their sadism or dark intentions way too obvious. Or I mean- I don't personally get involved in relationships that unhealthy lol.

    And I don't think Ted Bundy had Fe polr/1D Fe really- but even if he did- obviously it wasn't an *effective* narcissistic mask because the electric chair got him lol. I wouldn't say he was even good at being charming- he was just good looking, and a lot of people/esp young women can be awfully shallow and stupid with that. Men would probably fall for it too often - if female serial killers were "hotter" and were more conventinally attractive than Aileen Wuronous was. I don't understand seeing ILIs as 'hot' either but YMMV. Most ILIs I know are average to ugly objectively speaking lol.
    its covert narcissism. its for their small circle of friends or audience online. the sadism makes it hot, competence is charm. appear cool, there's a kind of aggression that appeals to people in that coldness. "charming" has always been a subjective quality, most "charming" people don't appeal to me. sadism appeals to people. They always liked the winner because the loser gets batterred. It's not about the hero. its about who wins.
    a certain faction of WW2's leader was over emotional/hysterical, all over the place yet he was liked. Many IEI's like that. Being ugly plays into being hot in the sadistic parts too.
    girls were talking about fantasies with this guy.
    https://imgur.com/a/RPyMIZ0

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Not sure about other ILIs but I don't think I would give gifts and attention to people I do not like just to manipulate them. I think that requires high F or something. If I don't like you I'm more likely to tell you off and insult you publicly. Terribly bad popularity-wise lol.
    wdym "just to manipulate". u manipulate for a purpose. depends on what u r goal is. The gift could be a favor so that later when u need help u will get helped, and thats the thing with narcs, their manipulation is self destructive. they ruin their own relationships. SInce they are covert often it may look they are caring after someone while they are actually making them and keeping them dependent. OFten the ILI doesn't know they are manipulating someone.. They are blind to consequences of their actions on others. In more abstract situations its harder to deduce, that the ILI did something months ago whose butterfly effect on other things interrelated that they also did together resulting in the codependent's troubles now but neither of them know. But sometimes the codependent does know then the ILI brings up all those other interrelated things lies denies. He has a bunch of bs to come up with to blame the vicitm for that he put the victim in the situation of making choices that result in ruin in the first place because ruin is the only thing available to happen at this point.. a stupid example would be making and curating a software for himself, then letting others use it, then they keep finding bugs and messing things up because the interface is unintuitive and a certain sequence of events breaks everything for no reason. Now i remember an ILI teacher blaming us for not studying for a test while we didnt hafve the info because we had to find it ourselves thats a lot of things about one topic in a native language that doesnt translate to english and the specific terms are multiple ones which u have to find somehow form the one vague topic and each is leading to other topics where u have to study a lot of bs just to understnad how it works so u get an idea of what u even have to look for and somehow stumble directly on the specific terms and get the relevant results for the specific terms that they are available for while somehow memorizing all the terms and the physics relationships. We had so many subjects and life to live why doesn't she consider that. Now we get slapped a bunch of bad marks because of the interrelated bs that she keeps basing stuff upon. If I mess up once I have to get twice the punishment. And now I have to fix bad grades to fix GPA which means I have to work even more for a shorter amount of time left. When I have a bunch of other bs for the same reasons of this stupid system. U see those assholes crawling in their basement always then they fucking type on forums and everywhere online how everyone's a whiny entitled crybaby, social issues don't exist, libtards are the real nazis and destroying the country. They literally half as everything that they don't give a shit about just because they feel like it then make others pay for THEIR mistakes.
    She was trying to teach us to be independent? I dont know how she learned what she did or what issues she had, but she couldn't have done what she did to learn herself without neglecting a lot of other things. She cant get traumatised if she gets bullied, because she pushes her problems on other people, by neglecting her own Fi in favor of Te. She was obviously autistic. No one helped her when she was bullied so she wont help anyone either and everyone carries their weight/suffering. Its everyone's fault for not being so self absorbed like her. She's gonna say she doesn't care what anyone thinks about her but no. She became a teacher because she was devalued like many autistic ILIs and wanted to be appreciated. U tell her u have this and this getting in the way she says "so what. everyone has problems". Why do I have to explain why that's wrong.

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    My ILI friend remind is one of the more socially awkward variations but we have always had quite a good click. I always thought she had some anger issues and she made a point of telling me about mbti a long time ago, I think to explain away a few things. I knew she was bullied at school and having my own issues I never judged her. But she is selfish. Throughout our youth she has been quite good at entertaining me and letting me entertain her (inviting me over, telling me stories) but I think she grew a bit bored of me in the last years and stopped responding to texts as much. Recently she seems more settled in life although she isn’t without problems. I’m also a bit more settled and she knows I’ve had therapy. Now suddenly she wants to have more contact. She probably thinks it’s a good thing and that I could do with her support. However, I’m pulling back just a bit. She’s never once asked me about my messed up personal life and if I were to speak about it with her now I would feel like she had some sort of hold over me.

    She reminds me a bit of my ESE mum, although I have more sympathy for my mum. I think the ILI needs me more than she did before and wants to have a more emotionally open relationship with me now that I’ve ‘had therapy’ and probably seem ‘more mature’ in her eyes. Perhaps we’ll get to that point one day. She is also gay, I dunno if that makes a difference but perhaps it increases the bond between us, no idea tbh though really. In a way, she’s a bit like a guy..and again similar to my ESE mum who is surprisingly uncomfortable discussing emotions. The ILI thinks she’s been a good friend, and to be fair she has always listened when I needed to rant about work or random stuff. But I think there is something possessive and entitled about how she regards me and although it’s nice to be needed I am not ok with feeling like I’m some sort of puppet that she’s ready to play with again. I begin to realise how easily manipulated I am by others and I’m at a point in my life where I need to be be careful how much I’m letting that happen. I’m not sure how long it’ll take before things improve with us, but she’s just gonna have to wait.

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    Being self focused because consumed by ones own mind isn't narcissism imo. I am that and fear my own narcissism but that is not where it lies. It waits in the hole inside me that can't fill its basic love needs. It doesn't dump ppl who are close enough bc it needs them too much. It is not being self-absorbed, it's dysfunctional enough to cause me pain of ego and identity, remorse from interactions, confusion about my needs vs. those of others, lost in something inside me that never grew up

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Oh fuck off. I know myself more than you, I don't give favors just because I'll gain something from anyone. You're an absolute projector they should use you in schools instead to show some Powerpoint presentation. I mean look at your confession, you're probably more evil than the people you hate. Pretty sure when people wrong you, you immediately type them as ILI lol.
    no, because i hate all types. u're very triggered for someone who's not guilty of what im accussing of. everybody lies and manipulates there's no way around that. u could manipulate unintentionally. All evil is unintentional in that sense because it's contrary to the way of life. Like someone intended to do something bad but it was because they were not aware enough to understand that they shouldn't, psychopaths say they kn ow they are evil they just dont care. That's still due to cognitive perceptual awareness issues. They are evil just like the sun shines its how it works. its not "intentional". we all do things because it gives us something. It's about whether u are aware u are of it or not. There's a desire to help that's also a pattern that u fulfill and thus give urself the fulfilment of that pattern which is also a projeciton of the desire in reality as action. no one does things "just to manipulate" as everything is related.
    not manipulating. the difference between you and me is self awareness (consciousness > conscience > accountability)
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...48/unknown.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Being self focused because consumed by ones own mind isn't narcissism imo. I am that and fear my own narcissism but that is not where it lies. It waits in the hole inside me that can't fill its basic love needs. It doesn't dump ppl who are close enough bc it needs them too much. It is not being self-absorbed, it's dysfunctional enough to cause me pain of ego and identity, remorse from interactions, confusion about my needs vs. those of others, lost in something inside me that never grew up
    narcissism ecompasses variety interrelated with others. it is narcissism in some sense and not in others. what if ur needs is also to fulfill those of others. i think this the basis of empathy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    My ILI friend remind is one of the more socially awkward variations but we have always had quite a good click. I always thought she had some anger issues and she made a point of telling me about mbti a long time ago, I think to explain away a few things. I knew she was bullied at school and having my own issues I never judged her. But she is selfish. Throughout our youth she has been quite good at entertaining me and letting me entertain her (inviting me over, telling me stories) but I think she grew a bit bored of me in the last years and stopped responding to texts as much. Recently she seems more settled in life although she isn’t without problems. I’m also a bit more settled and she knows I’ve had therapy. Now suddenly she wants to have more contact. She probably thinks it’s a good thing and that I could do with her support. However, I’m pulling back just a bit. She’s never once asked me about my messed up personal life and if I were to speak about it with her now I would feel like she had some sort of hold over me.

    She reminds me a bit of my ESE mum, although I have more sympathy for my mum. I think the ILI needs me more than she did before and wants to have a more emotionally open relationship with me now that I’ve ‘had therapy’ and probably seem ‘more mature’ in her eyes. Perhaps we’ll get to that point one day. She is also gay, I dunno if that makes a difference but perhaps it increases the bond between us, no idea tbh though really. In a way, she’s a bit like a guy..and again similar to my ESE mum who is surprisingly uncomfortable discussing emotions. The ILI thinks she’s been a good friend, and to be fair she has always listened when I needed to rant about work or random stuff. But I think there is something possessive and entitled about how she regards me and although it’s nice to be needed I am not ok with feeling like I’m some sort of puppet that she’s ready to play with again. I begin to realise how easily manipulated I am by others and I’m at a point in my life where I need to be be careful how much I’m letting that happen. I’m not sure how long it’ll take before things improve with us, but she’s just gonna have to wait.
    im glad u are noticing it. it took me so long to wean off one IEI who got too attached to ILI because the IEI had shit life before that. You should know that if u are not sure about if u are noticing something wrong or how bad is it it means u are also not aware when u wrong others. Of course if u are sure it could also mean u have very little awareness as well. I hated another IEI making me wait. turned out they were unable to communicate their Ni thought process but they were unable to communicate even that. I had to figure it out myself later and forgive them, Not communicating is disrespecting your ILI's feelings, needs intentions. By that I mean in case you are just beating around the bush wihtout telling her u are confused and need to figure things out and why exactly. if u are still figuring things out u could end up wronging her because u dont know what u do. this means u are unreliable yet allowing urself to lead her on. ILIs are hypocritical in the sense they say they like honesty then u criticize them then they respond petty - the more logical are petty. The completely insane just bring up what was already said and spin it forever/until they get so mad u are either gonna leave them alone or u are gonna die/worse. Maybe u can tell her that u dont know how she's gonna respond to what u think about her and what ur concerns about it are without revealing the thing, while also telling her u could miscommunicate so that she doesn't get immediately offended and make a shit ton of assumptions like a lot of ILIs just love to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Being self focused because consumed by ones own mind isn't narcissism imo. I am that and fear my own narcissism but that is not where it lies. It waits in the hole inside me that can't fill its basic love needs. It doesn't dump ppl who are close enough bc it needs them too much. It is not being self-absorbed, it's dysfunctional enough to cause me pain of ego and identity, remorse from interactions, confusion about my needs vs. those of others, lost in something inside me that never grew up
    actually the narc is a child who never grew up. Like babies need ot be babied and given everything, the narc wants to suck off everything out of someone. It's usually because caring for someone else is being sucked off yourself which makes u vulnerable. It means u are afraid of opening up to establish a real connection with someone. That's due to a weak sense of right and wrong, self and reality. resulting in u being unable to treat people well even if u want to which u then get punished for being an asshole when u didnt mean it which makes u frustrated when u just wanted to give love and be loved which u do in a twisted way like the teacher i mentioned. Help someone but hurt them in the process and want them to be grateful because their gratitude and growth merans they appreciate what u did and if it doesnt happen it means u did something wrong whihc means u arent loved and they have areason to hurt u now so u beocme psychopathic/narcissistic. Also sadism in ILIs in sexuality where they need to dominate someone but it's supposed to be an act of connection and mutual appreciation instead of abuse and self indulgence.

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    I do know some narcissistic INTJ, but they also can score as psychopathic, which psychopathy incorporates a degree of narcissism. Maybe the whole “1%” of INTJ (though some say two) can be most of the psychopaths, lol.. But in all honesty.. Most the INTJ I know would be Socionics LIE. One could be ILI. The reason is because their Se cannot in any way be 1D
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    yoo i just realized its repressed Se and Ti/Fi in IxI that manifests as narcissism. Lost connection with the self (Ti/Fi) and reality - the body (Se). This could relate to sexual abuse, disgust with their own bodies and image of self > thus they need to exercise, big muscles, look aesthetic/elegant. They couldnt be themselves because hostile environment so they have rigid shadowy people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    I do know some narcissistic INTJ, but they also can score as psychopathic, which psychopathy incorporates a degree of narcissism. Maybe the whole “1%” of INTJ (though some say two) can be most of the psychopaths, lol.. But in all honesty.. Most the INTJ I know would be Socionics LIE. One could be ILI. The reason is because their Se cannot in any way be 1D
    Psychopathy would make Se way better. Ted Bundy must have had good Se. He was ILI. If u have seen ILEs and ILIs are different even as psychopaths. Anyone would have better Se as a psychopath. Most psychopaths are SLEs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Maybe because you keep on insisting that ILIs are evil manipulators? And I say that not just on this thread. You really keep on pushing that stupid agenda because some random people hurt you. Several people here already have a negative view of ILIs and Gammas in general - rude, no morals, greedy capitalists. Add the pile of shitty traits like manipulators, polluters of the planet, users. Just what descriptions are you guys reading?

    You say shit like this AND even make stupid threads against a type because at some point you've been hurt and you feel like you can hurt others as well just because of that. Maybe grow up? Everyone got hurt at some point and you can choose to stay in hell and play with demons or rise above them. Sure I am triggered, because I am ILI myself, and to think that someone like you proliferates this kind of idea about ILIs is something I would stand against. So I guess fight me. People just don't say anything to preserve peace and/or they think you're just an immature kid and not even worth it. Well I have time, and I'm just eating fruits at the moment.

    BTW, your fucking teacher could be ILI but let me just tell you that I've met similar teachers. Their type? ILE, EIE, LII, etc. Maybe think that it's not type related at all and we are all battling the same enemy here? Fuck all the people who get hurt by society and blindly proclaim that their enemy is one of the Gammas lol. This is like MBTI bs all over again.

    And I fucking hate how you use the word "narcissism" too lightly.
    its not a one time occurence. its reality that those people shape. Do you know what's the point of IEI? People have made videos on that. It's to help others understand and advance. U need to change ur old self ot beocme a new better one when learning. ILIs don't learn. They dont grow. OK fine. Stay the piece of shit u have always been and keep abusing repeating the same mistakes. As I said so many damn times already did you miss it? That you deny everything and just tell others to bear the bs u keep spitting. I hate every type did u miss that? Of course u did, u only focuso n urself. I already said how I dont get offended FOR BEING CRITICIZIED SPEFICIALLY. So what if u have met assholes of other types. Im talking about ILIs. U miss that. Of course u do. Stay the way u are. Its not like u are gonna grow up urself. I hate how people neglect their narcissism and just go around happily saying how they are not doing anything wrong esp when isntead of addressing the criticism they beat around the bush. I said ILIs are inconsiderate and miss how they affect others. U just keep deflecting and raving about everyone else. Marx was allegeldy ILI and he had a different mentality form the others contrary to the agenda u misperceive as me pushing. Because thats what ILIs do accuse others of what they themselves are doing. u can call people this and that but u cant be called that. of course people are different even of the same types this doesnt mean there arent patternns. again if it doesnt fucking apply to u why are u mad. NO one fucking no one said ALL ILIs are like this. DOesnt mean most of them are. U are. U are proving it. Either stop talking or keep spinning in your constant delusions. U cant admit being wrong because u are insecure and u dont feel loved. If u felt loved and appreciated u would just keep abusing others because why change u are loved already little narcissistic baby. There is nothing someone can do to be on even terms with you. And you dont feel loved because u urself are incapable of loving someone which makes u project that on others not caring about u.
    Yeah thats why ILIs abuse themselves and show off how much hardship they have endured to achieve something. They hate themselves. ANd they hate everyone else. So they want everyone else to be abused and abuse themselves like they do to themselves because thats the only way they can be even with someone when they are incapable of love.

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    I don’t believe all ILI would be narcissistic though.. I have a few ILI friends.. They are decent people. One is as myself, autistic. He may be a bit rigid and stern for my liking, but I can tolerate him and I do not with him, clash. He and I had somewhat similar childhoods and also, he the mutual autism brings of compatibility.
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    have fun with him. i wonder if im gonna get to hear how that went in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    I don’t believe all ILI would be narcissistic though.. I have a few ILI friends.. They are decent people. One is as myself, autistic. He may be a bit rigid and stern for my liking, but I can tolerate him and I do not with him, clash. He and I had somewhat similar childhoods and also, he the mutual autism brings of compatibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    its not a one time occurence. its reality that those people shape. Do you know what's the point of IEI? People have made videos on that. It's to help others understand and advance. U need to change ur old self ot beocme a new better one when learning. ILIs don't learn. They dont grow. OK fine. Stay the piece of shit u have always been and keep abusing repeating the same mistakes. As I said so many damn times already did you miss it? That you deny everything and just tell others to bear the bs u keep spitting. I hate every type did u miss that? Of course u did, u only focuso n urself. I already said how I dont get offended FOR BEING CRITICIZIED SPEFICIALLY. So what if u have met assholes of other types. Im talking about ILIs. U miss that. Of course u do. Stay the way u are. Its not like u are gonna grow up urself. I hate how people neglect their narcissism and just go around happily saying how they are not doing anything wrong esp when isntead of addressing the criticism they beat around the bush. I said ILIs are inconsiderate and miss how they affect others. U just keep deflecting and raving about everyone else. Marx was allegeldy ILI and he had a different mentality form the others contrary to the agenda u misperceive as me pushing. Because thats what ILIs do accuse others of what they themselves are doing. u can call people this and that but u cant be called that. of course people are different even of the same types this doesnt mean there arent patternns. again if it doesnt fucking apply to u why are u mad. NO one fucking no one said ALL ILIs are like this. DOesnt mean most of them are. U are. U are proving it. Either stop talking or keep spinning in your constant delusions. U cant admit being wrong because u are insecure and u dont feel loved. If u felt loved and appreciated u would just keep abusing others because why change u are loved already little narcissistic baby. There is nothing someone can do to be on even terms with you. And you dont feel loved because u urself are incapable of loving someone which makes u project that on others not caring about u.
    Yeah thats why ILIs abuse themselves and show off how much hardship they have endured to achieve something. They hate themselves. ANd they hate everyone else. So they want everyone else to be abused and abuse themselves like they do to themselves because thats the only way they can be even with someone when they are incapable of love.
    I mean.. Most the people who come into typology are going to have their own issues in which drew to them in first of places, typology.. But at least many are trying to use it to grow and not sit in ignorance… Some do use their typing to justify their crappy behavior, have seen of it recently too.. But.. I think many do end up growing. I think more with MBTI this is seem though than Socionics.. because the whole quadra thing can create clicks. Just MBTI has an intuitive bias, of course.
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    I wish I can say the enneagram community is the least toxic, but.. You have many project and overtype 6, and many do not know correctly how to within it, type. But overall, it probably does facilitate the most growth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    have fun with him. i wonder if im gonna get to hear how that went in the future.
    He’s pretty decent.. I don’t like psychotherapy of much, but he has had it and has attained lots of self-awareness. I would say he is more self-aware than most people. Though, he cannot see how some of the autistic professionals try exploit of us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Oh my god you are the worst. You have a wrong idea of what narcissism even means. It's good that you are pointing out the idea of ~NOT ALL ILIs~ but the whole thing doesn't even make sense in the ILI socionics descriptions

    And if you can do this much mental gymnastics about ILIs pretty sure you can do that to all types as well. Lots of accusations that don't even mean anything regarding socionics types.

    Edit: Anyway not worth it. Continue posting to your, uhm, weird thread.
    the only descriptions whihc make sense to me are the jungian ones and even them not fully because he was a man and he made mistakes. u accuse of mental gymnastics > refuse to ellaborate. i told u what u do. u just dont care. i dont understand what are u trying to achieve anyway. u are not offering any analysis or constructive criticism. u just said u wanted ILIs to stop getting criticized. Then resorted to a simplistic personal attacks. Do u know if u ask all the ILIs who u assume hurt me would tell u i was the one hurting them? Thats how they roll.

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    I do think there may be some slight truth that INTJ may more likely be darker trait than most, because literally, every villain you see in a video game and movie is practically an INTJ, by functions.. However, I do think it as unfair to generalize that all INTJ are such way, and of course, there would be variation.. But it is interesting that aside from maybe ISTP, you do not really see many villainous characters, and if they will be of such, otherwise, they typically are ENTJ, ESTP, and occasionally, XNFJ.
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    But Socionics, I am not so sure the INTJ’s would be anyhow, ILI. An INTJ protagonist (one of my favorite characters), Haku from spirited Away, is MBTI INTJ, but Socionics Se. He does not ignore Ne, nor does he have PolR Fe and 1D Se.
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    If anything though, betas are thought to be the most overall evil, in Socionics.. Then ILI and LIE are to degree persecuted, but EIE and SLE seem get most hate of any.. Perhaps because many who run society, have delta value, and many are LSE, which conflicts beta value.
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    The SLE stereotype either makes for a super hero athletic maniac, or an abusive wife beater who goes about criminal conduct.
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    The hidden agenda in an ILI can make someone very moral and this intensifies if an enneagram 1… Not all morals are healthy, but if so, can make for one who is righteous. Social 1, a healthy such, would be a good citizen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    If anything though, betas are thought to be the most overall evil, in Socionics.. Then ILI and LIE are to degree persecuted, but EIE and SLE seem get most hate of any.. Perhaps because many who run society, have delta value, and many are LSE, which conflicts beta value.
    I seriously doubt that is true - what makes you come to such a conclusion?

    "Running society" depending on what you mean by that, seems to imply centralization of resources and power which is a trait of central quadras, beta and also gamma.

    Also those who run society have little knowledge of socionics - hence why make a connection between why certain types are hated in socionics circles with those run society?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    I seriously doubt that is true - what makes you come to such a conclusion?

    "Running society" depending on what you mean by that, seems to imply centralization of resources and power which is a trait of central quadras, beta and also gamma.
    I think overall most who run society are gamma types, then proceeded by beta, however, it is an oddity to me how disagreed beta values are in America… and society is very Te, here.. So it can be there are an abundant about of LSE and SLI’s..
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    I think most the people who are behind most of America’s construct are Gamma NT and Delta ST. But, as far as maybe some liberals go, some beta NF, maybe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    I think overall most who run society are gamma types, then proceeded by beta, however, it is an oddity to me how disagreed beta values are in America… and society is very Te, here.. So it can be there are an abundant about of LSE and SLI’s..
    Yeah I would agree that America is gamma first and foremost.

    I'd say beta and delta probably compete with each other (and with gamma) for their values in American society. Modern values seem pretty gamma overall I'd say.


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    The amount that beta values is disparaged in America to me, points that there is a reasoning s to why.. Of course gamma NT clashes with Beta NF, though. You do see some politicians, seemingly, he do see a degree of potential in the beta, but they view it as naivety and overly idealistic.

    But then you see many who make clowns of emotional expression, unity..
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    I think as far as healthcare in America goes, it is sheerly delta ST. And some lesser alpha SF.
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    And what can I say, other than health care is one of biggest issues in America. If not, the seemingly worst. I would want say it is gamma, and the ones who make more money probably are, but.. You also see more Si egos who would be into health.. Not really Si PolR, unless for things like surgery, or ones who just want financial gain completely, which that is an issue already, though. But still, I think delta ST comprises many, and also accounts for many of the conservative view and rejection of certain insurance that seems, and as well as expecting others even if they are unable, to work for it all. And you cannot work if of ill health.
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    Insurance companies are probably more gamma inclined. However, the overall workforce of healthcare, I believe it is mostly Delta ST’s, compositing such.. And I do not mean for things like emergency surgery, which would find of more LSI.. I think most old school family care are alpha SF and Delta ST, and you see more delta than of alpha said doctors.. And whilst they may not have direct role, they do have power and authority to reform, so they do have a degree of power in this. And they accept the insurance and take it, and still, overprice people and do not lower.
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    Most of psychotherapy and mental health care as well, is delta. And mental health is one of the biggest scams, how it operates. That is not at all beta value. The New Age movement is Beta NF. Most of psychotherapy is Delta NF, and evident even how it tries suppress and omit of beta behaviors.
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    I think it no coincidence that the most who seem oppressed and against psychotherapy, are beta NF.
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    ILIs fail at derailing a post about them (because they are narcs ofc and want all the attention after all). Then IEI derails without even trying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    I think it no coincidence that the most who seem oppressed and against psychotherapy, are beta NF.
    haha, i dont know about that. Peter Jordanson is beta NF. So is doctor K. EIEs are also narcs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZVTbFuZrNw

    the loser EII commited suicide after the doc failed to address his issues appropriately. Surprise surprise. EIEs are after the attention because they can't understand Fi. Not sure if he is EII but he def is delta. I wouldn't say psychotherapy is delta value and I don't believe in such things. Hedonism and ascetism are both associated with "beta" values, war and peace too... i really dont like the quadra value thing.

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    Ni-types seem to be very cognisant of image and more than a few are preoccupied with self-image or reputation but percentage-wise, no more become narcissistic than any other type. ILIs like IEIs tend to have very focused interests and will learn and grow immensely in those areas but outside of them, they're usually disinterested and often pay only lip-service. I have seen more than a few Ips throw stones at one another from their respective entrenched positions - metaphorically speaking.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    im glad u are noticing it. it took me so long to wean off one IEI who got too attached to ILI because the IEI had shit life before that. You should know that if u are not sure about if u are noticing something wrong or how bad is it it means u are also not aware when u wrong others. Of course if u are sure it could also mean u have very little awareness as well. I hated another IEI making me wait. turned out they were unable to communicate their Ni thought process but they were unable to communicate even that. I had to figure it out myself later and forgive them, Not communicating is disrespecting your ILI's feelings, needs intentions. By that I mean in case you are just beating around the bush wihtout telling her u are confused and need to figure things out and why exactly. if u are still figuring things out u could end up wronging her because u dont know what u do. this means u are unreliable yet allowing urself to lead her on. ILIs are hypocritical in the sense they say they like honesty then u criticize them then they respond petty - the more logical are petty. The completely insane just bring up what was already said and spin it forever/until they get so mad u are either gonna leave them alone or u are gonna die/worse. Maybe u can tell her that u dont know how she's gonna respond to what u think about her and what ur concerns about it are without revealing the thing, while also telling her u could miscommunicate so that she doesn't get immediately offended and make a shit ton of assumptions like a lot of ILIs just love to do.

    Yeah I am not without fault and I think our problems will resolve themselves in the long run. We are grown ups and she will probably figure out that I need a bit of space. We are also British and a lot of British people have problems talking about their emotions openly. I'm just not sure which direction our friendship is going in. I think it has to be casual-ish for now. I do appreciate the conversation we have, communication can be rewarding/ helpful. Also, she bought a house near me so I can't escape her (joke). I see our friendship improving in time, but she doesn't suddenly get to be 'there for me' all of a sudden after 15 years of watching me drown. I turned to other people in that time..

    I do want to be there for her though, but the relationship needs to be equal. We don't have that much in common atm- we are in that 'no longer young adults/ no families yet' period of our lives and she seems to sometimes find it awkward hanging out with me 1:1. I don't frankly want to spend time with her and her ESI girlfriend though. I think we'll probably just go for walks sometimes lol. Yes, I am massively avoiding having confrontation with her. I don't want to get PTSD of my ESE mum picking apart every point I make in an 'argument' and being screamed at...
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 09-13-2021 at 01:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Yeah I am not without fault and I think our problems will resolve themselves in the long run. We are grown ups and she will probably figure out that I need a bit of space. We are also British and a lot of British people have problems talking about their emotions openly. I'm just not sure which direction our friendship is going in. I think it has to be casual-ish for now. I do appreciate the conversation we have, communication can be rewarding/ helpful. Also, she bought a house near me so I can't escape her (joke). I see our friendship improving in time, but she doesn't suddenly get to be 'there for me' all of a sudden after 15 years of watching me drown. I turned to other people in that time..I do want to be there for her though, but the relationship needs to be equal. We don't have that much in common atm- we are in that 'no longer young adults/ no families yet' period of our lives and she seems to sometimes find it awkward hanging out with me 1:1. I don't frankly want to spend time with her and her ESI girl friend though. I think we'll probably just go for walks sometimes lol. Yes, I am massively avoiding having confrontation with her. I don't want to get PTSD of my ESE mum picking apart every point I make in an 'argument' and being screamed at...
    i dont like saying she was just watching u drown. she could be dealing with whatever other problem. thats why i think communication is important and thats why i hate ILIs, she should have said what's up, and thats why i hate IEIs who make assumptions for the same reasons ILIs do to some perceived equality. ur lack of communicating of what's up sounds toxic to me. u cant expect her to figure out if u need time because u could also be trying to just covertly wean her off of you or something else. IDK enough so u might be in the right anyhow. That's the common thing women do to men as well. Ur hints could be interpreted in a variety of ways, including not being hints at all or be directed at someone else. i was picking apart an IEI which was giving me hints and got mad at me. Ok but then i dont teach u anything at the same time they complained to me about other people just wanting to hear about their problems but didnt offer any help/solutions. Then my only option is to validate whatever her BS is which is also a rant that's criticizing me but they do not comprehend everything they talk shit about applies to me as well and most people really. They had so many rants which even criticize themselves. They are a "new person" every time. Their vents criticizing people for things there's nothing wrong about irked me. It's like she absorbed her father's bs criticizing her and everything else and is now just spreading it to everyone and i cant criticize that. Yeah some people think "i dont want to make anyone ever" feel that way" and they were just "but what about MY feelings of being pissed off at something I have no right to be pissed off about".
    OKay princess u are always right and im always wrong sorry i dont deserve to have a life or do meaningful things because it offends u because u feel like it. If i had abusive narc vents whose criticism applied to them they would be either oblivious to it or stop talking to me for being such a nasty person. Yeah i had to simp and say sorry. They had an eternal child complex. Failed to recognize and learn and grow. Stuck in their own loops. No accepting responsibility for mistakes (of course not always, but it was torture for them to change their mind, and when they did, they didnt tell me i was right and they did because it would mean im superior and they are inferior.). They were also trans M to F very likely because they are attracted to the domination and power aspect of masculinity due to them not wanting to feel vulnerable and being talked down by father, part of which was caused by them being unable to communicate their Ni appropriately so others would place themselves above them. Ya i dont want u to feel like im screaming at u, like the tg thought of me relating how i talked to them to the trauma caused by their parents.
    they also siad their problems would resolve in the long run but it seemed superifically to me which was part my mistake that they meant they wouldnt try to fix them but just demand and expect everything to be fixed by itself. OTTH it's how just a Ni would express themselves more accurrately since the world is doing things through us and our control is part illusory. But its also narcissistic disturbed sense of self, by not saying "I" would solve problems u remove the self from the situation and thus accountability.

    @Braingel i realized i've been nonsensically picking u apart as well. this is because i dont know what are the implications/assumptions behind the way u word things. could be wasting ur time and smudging ur Ni too much. at the same time it could be u being stuck in a Ni Ti loop due to confusiion of the terms u think in. This happenned to me a lot so it became a habit to attempt to redefine my conceptualisation and word use.

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