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Thread: SEI/IEI Struggles with 4D Fi

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    Default SEI/IEI Struggles with 4D Fi

    Strange tittle I know. However this is one thing I have read about. Both IEI and SEI have 4D Fi and both types seem prone to struggle with depression, self esteem, angst etc.


    A lot of this is also prone due to them both having Pi functions as well. Aka, they’re hella subjective and easily get pulled into their own pool of unregulated 4D Fi with a crap Te polr that can’t ground them. I read about this a little while back and some heavy angst just hit me in the gut just now. Just want to discuss this as I don’t see it hit the same as ESI’s and EII’s.

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    Anxiety and depression isnt type related its more mental health related
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

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    I am confident in my character judgements and I try not to do it as often but seriously why would you want to judge people in this manner? “You’re selfish!” “you’re stupid”
    It’s harsh, sudden, not constructive at all
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Anxiety and depression isnt type related its more mental health related
    I am aware of that. Everybody can struggle regardless of type. I’m not diminishing that fact.

    However, I have seen with 4D XEI’s they tend to show it a lot more. I’ve been told I have a “resting sad face”. I am just wondering if this is common with SEI’s and IEI’s and if 4D Fi plays a role because I have noticed it it myself.

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    Yes depression is not related to Fi. Fi is a judgmental function.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I am aware of that. Everybody can struggle regardless of type. I’m not diminishing that fact.

    However, I have seen with 4D XEI’s they tend to show it a lot more. I’ve been told I have a “resting sad face”. I am just wondering if this is common with SEI’s and IEI’s and if 4D Fi plays a role because I have noticed it it myself.
    Anyone can hide their depression. Under a smiling face; under a resting face under humor etc
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Understanding individual aspects in others is Fi; letting your emotions sink a hole in your self could also be Fi. Feeling sorry for yourself could be Fi; not letting go of an emotional that’s tied a chain around your mental self leg could be Fi
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    The Fi depression can happen if you start to deprecate your self as in you start to put your own character down in your own mind which kind of breeds negative self view. I guess in a way it’s judging yourself
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I am aware of that. Everybody can struggle regardless of type. I’m not diminishing that fact.

    However, I have seen with 4D XEI’s they tend to show it a lot more. I’ve been told I have a “resting sad face”. I am just wondering if this is common with SEI’s and IEI’s and if 4D Fi plays a role because I have noticed it it myself.
    They might feel their feelings with more nuance than other types but other than that xEis tend to be rather positive in their outlook. They tend to favour meshing with the emotional atmosphere more than showing their true feelings per se
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

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    I still think that its dangerous to your personal development to try and use typology for mental unhealth. Try looking into attachment styles i think you might find what youre looking for.
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

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    dunno I think people often thought I was more mentally ill than I really am in the past because of the Te polr. I wasn't really depressed- but I had Daria like energy that made me seem like I was. and IxxP victim-y energy. My problem was probably more like I couldn't be deprssed *enough* for them- because they wanted me to feel bad because Fi valuing is often related to this dreary sorrowness.

    Yeah Te polr sucks sometimes but if you let Te valuers or even 4D Te people get in your head too much- I don't think that's good either. Like they aren't right and you're not wrong because of the Te polr that's not really how it works. I don't think it's helpful or heathy to be overly diplomatic or self-deprecating when a 4D Te person is being an asshole. I think it's more helpful to be the bigger shark.

    Te/Fe are like the functions of Ultimate Karen in ways. Both 4D Te & Fe are Karen-y and overly populaist and care what other people think too much. They are like both the function of Karen Objectivity. So they have trouble seeing past the realm of objectivity often and how we need to respect true individuality better.

    so I wasn't bad or wrong just because they didn't understand me or because their Fi didn't like me. Yes sometimes of course I was bad or wrong lol but I don't think it was related to my type all that much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    I still think that its dangerous to your personal development to try and use typology for mental unhealth. Try looking into attachment styles i think you might find what youre looking for.
    Okay, I’m a little annoyed cause your assuming that I’m using typology for mental health. There was a literal thread about Ni types and depression and discussion of this. Just because I am OPEN about my OWN struggles does not mean every time I ask a typology question it’s always in regards to that. I can separate the two thank you. I’ve seen it discussed on another forum of this so I wanted to bring it here. There’s also no issue with the Beta NF angst thread.

    Don’t assume shit about me.

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    Before I go into this, lemme preface this by saying I have a diagnosed and undiagnosed personality disorder. So DO NOT take what I say for granted and be willing to be steadfast with any skepticism.

    That said, in my experience, demo can lead to depression due to two things: vagueness of identity and guilt. The reasoning as far as I can tell can be summarized by the function being drawn and quartered by contactivity, evaluation, vitality and of course, subduedness.

    Unlike ExI who have more clear conscience - not in the sense they are without guilt but more so certain of their ethical misdoings - xEIs can live with more "sludgy" conscience not only due to being burdened by guilt but because since is unvalued, they can wish to unacknowledge their guilt. But because of the boldness of this function and because they are human, they can't help but expand upon it, thus feeling guilt about not feeling guilty.

    Also, because evaluatory functions are absolutive, this can lead to paradoxical behavior. So where there is the will to guilt, there is the will to be without guilt. One thing I noticed about other xEIs is they have some.... fascination with psychopathy. I mean, any edgy person can. But there's something particular about xEIs. They fear a lack of emotions or inability to express, but something about being emotionally barren seems attractive. something to ease the burden of guilt. Another disorder they might wanna end up being diagnosed with is Schizoid. If you have noticed, such conditions are extreme manifestations of their duals, conflict, activating, and super-ego. They want yet fear an emotionally devoid and calculating mastermind.

    In regards to identity - due to the conditionally of their Fi they can see themselves less of being part of a solid identity, but more so a vessel of information. For a non pathologized person, I assume this is merely identifying with their environment or circumstances. but overall, this segues well with their introverted irrational nature. The xEI, distraught with their mosaic or kaleidoscopic self image, is thus then burdened by an uncertain purpose - this is probably more so true for SEI than IEI. And this relates to their PoLR . Unsure who you are, unsure what you should do.

    If anything I said can be globalized, I do wonder how something similar might operate in LIIs, as they have contact+unvalued , too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Okay, I’m a little annoyed cause your assuming that I’m using typology for mental health. There was a literal thread about Ni types and depression and discussion of this. Just because I am OPEN about my OWN struggles does not mean every time I ask a typology question it’s always in regards to that. I can separate the two thank you. I’ve seen it discussed on another forum of this so I wanted to bring it here. There’s also no issue with the Beta NF angst thread.

    Don’t assume shit about me.
    no need to get offended
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    @Dazu how did you come to decide on your type?
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    Work the middle 'til it hurt a little" - Kanye West
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    @Dazu how did you come to decide on your type?
    It's a funny story. I laid a bunch of tiles around my yard, each labeled a certain type. then got my pig, sadled him up and got a fishing rod with a carrot. whichever tile he finally got the carrot and shidded and farded on is the one I knew - the one I knew I was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    It's a funny story. I laid a bunch of tiles around my yard, each labeled a certain type. then got my pig, sadled him up and got a fishing rod with a carrot. whichever tile he finally got the carrot and shidded and farded on is the one I knew - the one I knew I was.

    Lol such a typical SEI response...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    Lol such a typical SEI response...
    I'm pleasantly surprised. Most would go "but you have to be NF!!!"

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    Depression makes me more focused on self, my thoughts and reactions to things. rejection can hurt terribly if one is already depressed, as it contributed even further to a negative self perception. I’ve read before that you can tell if someone is depressed through their writing if they write the word I a lot. I noticed since I started seeing a psychiatrist about a year ago, I’ve quit using I myself as much, have become more accepting and forgiving. More able to ‘shake things off’.

    I honestly think a lot of this can look like Fi. And prob -Fi. And Ne PoLR. I’m not surprised people had typed me ESI, especially during this time I’ve seen people on here typed Fi lead, and after my experience, I kinda saw some parallels in their behavior with mine when I was depressed and wondered maybe if they aren’t Fi lead, just depressed XEI’s
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    @reverie
    I'd argue depression can either be caused or exacerbated by an internalized existential need that demands one's unvalued functions. It's just on average, one doesn't express 4 and 7 due to their functional properties. However, I've seen cases of it. Such people are quite anomalous.

    But an IEI thinking they are and being perceived as ESI is unheard of, likewise with SEIs as ExI.

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    tittle

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    @Dazu

    I liked your post, I thought it was very insightful. 'Fascination with psychopathy' yeah the thing of it is- this is true for me, but I would also say that I'm not at all serious about it. Not that it makes it okay- ((well it does in a way, but maybe some types are incapable of seeing it that way...)) but I think the person is an idiot if they actually think I am serious about some of the shit I say. But technically, you're right- it is a fascination with psychopathy- or maybe 'darkness.' idk

    Like at the gas station the other day I was pumping gas with my mom and I said to her as a joke 'how much would it hurt if somebody ran over my face with those big truck tires?' and she like gave me a funny look and said 'God why do you think of those things!' and I was just like 'I don't know.'

    On the bright side- I never really had Lady Olenna's weakness in Game of Thrones. I never underestimated just how wicked somebody else's imagination coul be or how they far they were willing to plan out something distubring in their heads because , hello.

    I guess this is why SLE are my duals. If they are unhealthy or fucked up- a SLE really would be the type most likely to put somebody's face in the road and run them over with the tires probably due to their Fi polr + not giving a shit. So I kinda naturally know how to manipulate the situation where that person won't be me. I sorta shadow-ly think these thing a lot but I have no intention to really do them. Is that fascination with psychopathy you mentioned? I don't know- but that's how I related to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    But an IEI thinking they are and being perceived as ESI is unheard of, likewise with SEIs as ExI.
    seems a bit baseless of an assertion… I can think of three people on this forum that meet that off the top of my head
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    What you said about your dual kinda reveals another manifestation. Duals on some level, want to be each other, have another's traits. If this can be positive things, like an SLE being more attracted to religion, being benevolent, and IEI being more pragmatic and strong willed, then there must also be a want for negative traits. SLE being maybe emotionally manipulative, and as you said, an IEI wanting to pummel someone into the ground.

    Another aspect to consider is that this is a possible dark manifestation of duality. Duality is comfort, letting one do their ego and moderately use their id for you, vice versa. There could be a vicarious element where duals want to live thru the vices of each other. "I am an evil genius mad scientist because my dual is" - SEI, "I am a conquering warlord because my dual is" - SLE. Not only is status obtained thru this, but also one can exempt themselves from a bad situation because they know how to get thru to their dual. Preventing an "attack" or simply not caring when it happens.

    On a somewhat related note, is this guy a Beta Irrational?
    https://youtu.be/b0NlXKPaqZg

    But yeah, all that said, to relate this back to xEI depression. What probably adds to this depression is wanting to be your dual, but of course, failing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reverie View Post
    seems a bit baseless of an assertion… I can think of three people on this forum that meet that off the top of my head
    messed up. meant NOT unheard of.

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    What you said about your dual kinda reveals another manifestation. Duals on some level, want to be each other, have another's traits. If this can be positive things, like an SLE being more attracted to religion, being benevolent, and IEI being more pragmatic and strong willed, then there must also be a want for negative traits. SLE being maybe emotionally manipulative, and as you said, an IEI wanting to pummel someone into the ground.
    This is wise I think. I like that lol.

    Hmm. I think 'wanting to be your dual' is related to inseucirty and maybe that's a big part of where depression comes from, or low self-image. I think yeah you could dwell on your 2D/1D functions all day and get neurotic/unhappy that you aren't more stronger/more nicer or whatever but I wouldn't say it's healthy.

    I remember a SLE I had a crush on once- I realized I wanted to be him kinda more than I was into him- but when I did this, it wasn't a time in my life where I felt very good. I was going to therapy, had no job or income coming in- etc. I was letting my Te polr own me, I even started to wear some of the clothes he would wear lol it was really stupid. But I snapped myself out of it thankfully.

    Demi Lovato almost seems like she's going through that- letting other people define who she is and taking on their identities.

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    A lot of what you said seems consistent with the adaptive ethics of xEIs. Especially that adapting of interests. I assume every xLE wants a cute house wifey/hubby to imitate their interests.

    How you framed being owned by the PoLR is especially interesting though, considering how much people underestimate its place. Really though, I think alongside your program, it is a defining element. It should actually be a given one can be posessed by it.

    But I actually have to ask, because this is where my intuition runs dry, how do xEIs snap out of Evaluatory+Subdued dilemma?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    messed up. meant NOT unheard of.
    lol ok I wondered, thought it seemed kind of a strange thing to say
    ·:*¨༺༻¨*:·.𝓽𝓾𝓶𝓫𝓵𝓻·:*¨༺ ༻¨*:·.
    քɨռȶɛʀɛֆȶ
    ♓︎ 𝓅𝒾𝓈𝒸𝑒𝓈 ♓︎ 𝓅𝒾𝓈𝒸𝑒𝓈
    ♍︎ 𝓋𝒾𝓇𝑔𝑜 𝓇𝒾𝓈𝒾𝓃𝑔 ♍︎

  29. #29
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    But I actually have to ask, because this is where my intuition runs dry, how do xEIs snap out of Evaluatory+Subdued dilemma?
    I don't know how quite to answer this- I guess I told myself I will be okay when I was around a lot of Te even though it literally made my body vomit. I would still show up even with the vomit. Maybe an acceptance that life is rarely as pretty as we want it to be, but it is what it is?

    Also more simply I got over this person and loved myself again because I found him patronizing and rude after awhile and not so sexy anymore. Plus looking at him now- he almost seemed like he was an ILE & not even a SLE but lookalike can be confusing at times.

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