Adventures in Dating

[Adam Strange]

As I was eating breakfast this morning, I looked out my back window and saw my ex-wife in the back yard. I haven't seen or talked to her in six months.
I've been having the back yard landscaped, and apparently, she decided to inspect it for reasons beyond my knowing.

I walked outside and said Hi to her, and she said she was "just passing by and wanted to see what was going on." She looked at the new brick boundary to the rose bushes and she said it looked nice. I said it was done by my (ESI) decorator. My ex removed her sun hat and fiddled with the cloth ties in the back. I told her the hat looked nice, and she said she'd had it for years and she loved it. It had faded in the sun to an exact shade of color which highlighted her natural hair color.

She carefully repositioned a bobby pin in the hat, and I was struck by the relentless Si that she was presenting. I found it slightly annoying. What a contrast to the easy, and this-could-be-your-future, feelings I have when I'm around the ESI.

How could I have not known this before I got married, when I was dating a lot? I think the answer is that my Delta parents steered me away from the person I actually am and the preferences that I naturally have, and I hadn't yet figured out who and what I needed.





*EDIT*
Why did she think she could just walk into the back yard and inspect things, when we're divorced and I haven't seen her in half a year?
A year after we were divorced, I had to ask her to give me back the keys to the house, because she'd just unlock the front door and walk in unannounced, any time of the day or night, and would immediately go upstairs to inspect the bedroom and bathroom (for signs of my dating life, I assume) before coming back down and saying "Hi, Adam." Fucking hell.

It's because she's my Supervisor, and when you're around your Supervisor, YOU'RE ALWAYS ON THEIR TERRITORY.
It's also because, really, my sense of boundaries sucks.

[Bethanyclaire]

Hm I vaguely recall those notifications saying you’ve missed a match (on tinder or ok Cupid). I never paid
any attention to them, assuming they were just trying to get you to swipe right more and use the app more. Those two apps have a ‘phoney’ feel to them for some reason. For me, I think I can kinda tell if an Estp has potential by looking at their eyes or mouth. They have to have a nice shaped mouth and not too small or scary looking eyes.

[Adam Strange]

Hm I vaguely recall those notifications saying you’ve missed a match (on tinder or ok Cupid). I never paid
any attention to them, assuming they were just trying to get you to swipe right more and use the app more. Those two apps have a ‘phoney’ feel to them for some reason. For me, I think I can kinda tell if an Estp has potential by looking at their eyes or mouth. They have to have a nice shaped mouth and not too small or scary looking eyes.

@Bethany, which dating app are you using?

[Bethanyclaire]

@Bethany, which dating app are you using?

Hinge- seems to be the new tinder here.

[Adam Strange]

Hinge- seems to be the new tinder here.

Thanks. I'll look into it.

[Tallmo]

I'm continuing going to these dances as I wrote before. There's always excitement in the air. Ladies standing there alone listening to the band, giving the I-am-available look. I approach and ask her if she wants to dance. Almost every time some lady gets interested after we have danced, but it's hard to move things forward from that. One gets the feeling "it was just a dance" or "we are too different" (this might be true). It's a really good environment for meeting women, in theory, but in practice it's harder. I'm not that good at having a conversation while dancing because dancing in itself requires all of my attention. We can connect with our bodies for those few minutes, but then we drift apart. But there's lot's of potential so I will keep doing this. Yesterday I got interest from a couple of women, and before that I met this young girl (ESE-N) who could have been my daughter and I became kindof her mentor, showing her how to dance. She wasn't experienced. That constellation creates attraction and interest in itself. Anyway, I'm pretty introverted and the challenge is not to get stuck in the formalities of dancing and react when the right moment comes. But let's see what happens...

[Bethanyclaire]

Thanks. I'll look into it.

hmm another thing that relates to what you were saying, I often feel like I recognise the profiles of the Estps I match with..so perhaps I’ve hovered over their profile before and not been sure about them..it could just be that I’ve seen their profile before but sometimes it feels significantly familiar. You know what, the better matches are probably with people where I’m not sure if they are Estp at first.

[Adam Strange]

This wasn’t a date, but it applies to ESI-LIE dating.

My waitress last night was attentive and competent but not demonstrative. While ordering, she and I just kept talking, almost as if a conversation was the natural state of nature.
I saw that she had pastel pink fingernails and decided that she was probably an ESI, but I thought I’d try to be sure.

I asked her (she was in college) if she was studying to go into some field where she helps disadvantaged people in society, maybe at a government level?
She told me that that’s exactly what she is studying. “Not to run the agency, you understand, but to help the CEO get things done.”
“And do you divide the world into two groups; the Good, and the Bad? And you never tell them which group they are in?”
Now she was staring at me, but trying not to stare, as if it wasn’t unusual to meet a guy who knows how you secretly operate.
She wasn’t wearing a ring.

”I think you are an introvert”, and she started to object but held herself back, “and you know exactly how you, yourself, value things, and are a sensor in the sense that you know what looks best on you. You are an Artist with yourself as the canvas. You take care of things right in front of you immediately because who knows what might happen in the future, and you could use some help with facts and money.
”Furthermore, you are a Judger because you have a Plan for your life. You aren’t one of those people who just takes life as it comes and says Oh, whatever happens, happens. It’s all fine with me.”

Now, I was kind of being a jerk, but she ignored that like a normal ESI is immune to assholes and broke into a big smile and said “Yes, I’d say that’s all true. How do you know this?”

”I can tell what type you are because your personality comes out in your face.” She seemed pleased with this thought. Some ESIs know they look good and take secret, but barely disguised pride in that fact.

”Let me tell you why I’m saying this. You have a psychological profile”, and here she looked alarmed, “which you share with about twelve percent of the population. There is a best match for you, but they only comprise a very small part of the population, so if you are going to find your very best romantic match in life, you need to know what you are looking for. Look up the word ENTJ.”

My dinner companion, an ENTJ himself, said “About two percent, I believe.”

”Now”, I continued, “how can you identify these guys? If you look up ‘ENTJ’, you’ll find that a lot of them run businesses and are assholes. Which just goes with the personality traits they get. But how can you see them?
”Well, it just so happens that you’re talking to two of your best matches right now.”

She looked at my friend. She didn’t seem impressed.

I laughed and said to her, “Now, that was a really roundabout come-on, don’t you think?”

She ignored that and reached for a pen and paper. “ENTJ?”

”Yes. There are online tests you can give to your prospective boyfriends.”

”Well, I’ve been going with a guy for three years. I hope he’s a good match.”

”Do you have a picture of him?”

”Yes.” She reached in her pocket for her phone. I’m always amazed at how free some people are with their private lives.

Anyway, this brings me to the whole point of this post. In over six years of looking, looking, looking for ESI-LIE Dual pairs, I’ve seen only three.

She showed me a picture of herself with a big, contented smile on her face, cheek to cheek with a guy who was a dead ringer for an LIE. They looked happy.

She somehow got it right, without any outside help.

Maybe the world really is getting to be a better place.

[Adam Strange]

There is a separate thread somewhere on sub-type matching, but I’m too lazy to look for it right now, and since this post applies to how I, an LIE-Te experiences his female Duals, this thread is an acceptable place to post this.

Last summer, I was seeing an ESI-Fi. The relationship didn’t work out the way I wished it would, possibly because she was still reeling from her separation and divorce from her second husband, or maybe it was for other reasons, but what I want to discuss is my subjective experience.

She was easy to get along with. Not super-exciting, but very durable in public and in private. When we were out and about, no one doubted that we were a couple.

I contrast that with the time I’ve spent with an ESI-Se. That relationship also didn’t work out in the way that I’d like, both because she’s a 27 year old lesbian who doesn’t want kids and I’m a hundred year old hetero male who does want kids, but again, I want to discuss my subjective feelings here.

With the ESI-Se, we do Activities. Shopping, lunch, planning activities, doing things together. We have fun. I look forward to seeing her and I fall into a bad mood when she’s not around. We seem to cycle our time together, with a few days on and a few days off, to recover.

I could see where people are coming from when they say that the best social match is the partner leaning towards your Activity partner, in my case, an ESI-Se. My god, we have each other’s backs and we have FUN together. I could also see where people say that your best “private” match, the match where you make a family and your common goals together, would be the subtype whose dominant preference is opposite yours. In my case, this would be the ESI-Fi.

But health levels and experience and expectations play such a great role that either subtype, if both parties are healthy and can agree on a direction, would be perfectly fine.

[Tallmo]

I went to a dance again last night. The whole thing is organized by volunteers and I was involved in this too. At the dance I ran into this girl I've seen before. She is kinda cute in a normal way and quite introverted, calm but nice. She looks like she could be a nun, her clothes, her slightly nerdy style. But she is attractive in a nice way.

We danced for a while and introduced ourselves. Then I lost her for awhile and later in the evening we danced again. The weather was moist and too hot, and with all the people dancing and the band playing it got very hot inside. (I can't stand heat and was getting really uncomfortable) The music was loud and I was getting exhausted but we danced the last dances together and then I asked her to join me outside. I had first thought she'd be LII, but I was getting ILI vibes now and I also could see how her previous positive reactions to Se made sense. Her appearance is passive but alert at the same time, something I've seen in ILI before. We talked for awhile, not much, just this and that. She is not very talkative. Then she said she was going to go home and we hugged, and she waited for a second or so for what to happen next, and then asked if we could keep in touch. I took her number. It was this typical situation were there is a spark of interest between us, but we are not very close mentally, despite of all the dancing. But I'll call her this week and maybe we can meet again. I am not sure if she wants to, but seems like she would.

Btw: I think this thread should be in the "Lifestyle" section, not "intertype relationships"

[Adam Strange]

I went to a dance again last night. The whole thing is organized by volunteers and I was involved in this too. At the dance I ran into this girl I've seen before. She is kinda cute in a normal way and quite introverted, calm but nice. She looks like she could be a nun, her clothes, her slightly nerdy style. But she is attractive in a nice way.

We danced for a while and introduced ourselves. Then I lost her for awhile and later in the evening we danced again. The weather was moist and too hot, and with all the people dancing and the band playing it got very hot inside. (I can't stand heat and was getting really uncomfortable) The music was loud and I was getting exhausted but we danced the last dances together and then I asked her to join me outside. I had first thought she'd be LII, but I was getting ILI vibes now and I also could see how her previous positive reactions to Se made sense. Her appearance is passive but alert at the same time, something I've seen in ILI before. We talked for awhile, not much, just this and that. She is not very talkative. Then she said she was going to go home and we hugged, and she waited for a second or so for what to happen next, and then asked if we could keep in touch. I took her number. It was this typical situation were there is a spark of interest between us, but we are not very close mentally, despite of all the dancing. But I'll call her this week and maybe we can meet again. I am not sure if she wants to, but seems like she would.

Btw: I think this thread should be in the "Lifestyle" section, not "intertype relationships"

Hopefully, dating is not a lifestyle. Although, I suppose it could be, if you are not lucky.

@Tallmo, if you want to get on better terms with the woman who might be ILI, just ask her to plan the next date. Tell her you want to go somewhere interesting and get something to eat, and let her plan the details.
SEEs set the impulse and the direction, and ILIs set the details and the timing.

It also helps to act incredibly confident (but not mean) and hopelessly stupid about facts when around ILIs. It even helps to tell them that you are an idiot when it comes to details and facts. That's who they are looking for.


I've dated every introverted type in the socion (except SEIs), and, eventually, I got tired of imitating their Duals just to improve relations. But your mileage may vary.

[Bethanyclaire]

I've dated every introverted type in the socion (except SEIs), and, eventually, I got tired of imitating their Duals just to improve relations. But your mileage may vary.

you can’t get everything from a dual, they’re not perfect. Therefore other types can be good in other ways. If you’re lucky, super-ego relations can be really good. So can semi-duals/illusionary. The rest all seem a bit addictive/ co-dependent.

semi-duals seem to be good in that they often resemble people I’ve had unrealistic crushes on/ could have had short term relations with. I don’t know about after the romance fades…but does it really fade if you love someone?

edit: I guess any ITR can be healthy…but the less fulfilled you are in life, the more important it becomes to have strong ITR?

[Bethanyclaire]

I could see where people are coming from when they say that the best social match is the partner leaning towards your Activity partner, in my case, an ESI-Se. My god, we have each other’s backs and we have FUN together. I could also see where people say that your best “private” match, the match where you make a family and your common goals together, would be the subtype whose dominant preference is opposite yours. In my case, this would be the ESI-Fi.

But health levels and experience and expectations play such a great role that either subtype, if both parties are healthy and can agree on a direction, would be perfectly fine.

SLE-ti seem to notice me..I do match with them, but it’s hard to get conversation going and they end up annoying me too much and I can’t deal with it even if I know I’m being a bit silly. But I think the fact they notice me means something- I do think there can be a strong pull between opposite subtypes.

I think I’m actually gonna be avoiding duals from now on- they’re mean lol

i do like both subtypes for duals..and also both when it comes to IEE pals too

[EIE H]

@Adam Strange:

LSI and I officially decided to stay friends… with benefits (any time I think we’re about to go platonic, we end up hooking up).

I am the only person he’s posted selfies with on social media within in the last few months (on two different occasions) and said he “wish he could be in my arms forever” so there’s definitely affection. That said, if I want a relationship in the future, I will need to look elsewhere. The saga seems nearly complete.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I think I’m actually gonna be avoiding duals from now on- they’re mean lol

Yeah, the healthier/more mature SLEs are most likely going to be more active in RL and probably a bit older. Like, above 33.

I think the fact they notice me means something- I do think there can be a strong pull between opposite subtypes.

Tbh if I went by the "pull" I'd type as SEE-Fi. I feel that with ILIs more, and LIEs tend to annoy me at first but then grow on me. Ultimately, the compatibility is the opposite, though; better with LIEs than ILIs.

[Bethanyclaire]

Yeah, the healthier/more mature SLEs are most likely going to be more active in RL and probably a bit older. Like, above 33.

yep I don’t think I’m gonna date younger guys anymore..although guys may think they’re ok with dating someone older I don’t think they think it through. If you’re gonna talk to older women you shouldn’t waste their time..may sound harsh..so yeah gonna try avoiding them now

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange:

LSI and I officially decided to stay friends… with benefits (any time I think we’re about to go platonic, we end up hooking up).

I am the only person he’s posted selfies with on social media within in the last few months (on two different occasions) and said he “wish he could be in my arms forever” so there’s definitely affection. That said, if I want a relationship in the future, I will need to look elsewhere. The saga seems nearly complete.

@EIE H, your relationship with your LSI seems to have arrived at the same place that mine did with my LSI. The only problem that I had with that was that, while we were great together in private, we were not good at all in our public relations.
You should have better luck. I envy you in many ways. My LSI ex was a great person and a terrific half-match.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

yep I don’t think I’m gonna date younger guys anymore..although guys may think they’re ok with dating someone older I don’t think they think it through. If you’re gonna talk to older women you shouldn’t waste their time..may sound harsh..so yeah gonna try avoiding them now

They're just on a different maturity level. Often not in the same place in life, don't have the same life goals yet (settling down, etc.) often have instead the goal of gaining more life experience. Doesn't help that women mature faster. I think mature women are better paired with older men, they're closer in maturity levels that way. Of course, that's not an absolute. It's just a generalization. One SLE I know is a fucking child, but he's 3 years older than me. He's extremely unhealthy, though. Another SLE I know is also 3 years older, but barely comes online and is very healthy, mature, etc. He recently became a father and is always active and doing things with his kid: taking him to the pool, or on a bike ride, or etc. in his spare time. Most SxE's that are healthy seem that way: always on the go.

[Bethanyclaire]

They're just on a different maturity level. Often not in the same place in life, don't have the same life goals yet (settling down, etc.) often have instead the goal of gaining more life experience. Doesn't help that women mature faster. I think mature women are better paired with older men, they're closer in maturity levels that way. Of course, that's not an absolute. It's just a generalization. One SLE I know is a fucking child, but he's 3 years older than me. He's extremely unhealthy, though. Another SLE I know is also 3 years older, but barely comes online and is very healthy, mature, etc. He recently became a father and is always active and doing things with his kid: taking him to the pool, or on a bike ride, or etc. in his spare time. Most SxE's that are healthy seem that way: always on the go.

Yeah I hear what you're saying about guys wanting more life experience. I know an LIE who ended it with an ESE girl..the relationship seemed quite solid but he wanted to move away and she didn't- now suddenly after they've broken up he is happy staying in the same city. But it's annoying when men don't realise this about themselves- and make out that you're stifling them, when in fact they just want more freedom than is necessary.

My sis is with a dual now (they were friends at work, and he is a lot older than her). My problem is that in some ways I'm mature..and in others not. I have really strong principles but not the life experience to get inside the head of the average guy...I'm quite idealistic. I can't help it that much- developing strong values was a coping mechanism for me in a way- being nice and understanding made me happy when I was secretly living with quite serious problems. But I think men who are a little insecure can misinterpret my strong values and see me as judgemental..when in fact I'm just trying to be honest and open.

I was talking to an SLE who seemed nice, but all of a sudden I panicked and was a bit too 'honest' with him. (This may be partly due to me having long covid and feeling a bit overly emotional). Also, at the back of mind I knew I was ignoring a really nice seeming SEE guy....and I think I just couldn't deal with the slowness of talking to the SLE. I think I am finally putting my mental health first- I've been looking for someone (seriously) for over a year now and I think I just need to follow my gut, because anything else feels like I am not being kind to myself, and I think...for the kind of person I am...I really need to be kind to myself in order to be stable and not sink into depression. I can't be too nice to guys that aren't doing the same for me..because it just feels too wrong...I've spent my life trying to be a very strong person, and I think I have to honour that part of me, and let it protect me. This probably means not dating a dual lol, because quite frankly I'm probably too nice for them (of course if an amazing one came along etc). I consider myself to have a strong subtype, as well as a background of trauma and struggle, can Gulenko please tell me which type I should be with? lol. Maybe SEE or IEI.

It would have been good if I could have just kept talking to both the SEE and the SLE...but I think something in me is saying....try a semi-dual, if you have the chance. It will likely be a good experience...whatever comes of it....dating a dual...I think the experience could be hit or miss for someone like me.

I know people say a dual is great if you've had a life of struggle..you finally find someone who gets you etc. But I haven't had normal type of struggle....if that makes sense. In Gulenko's ITR description for look-a-like it says this ITR is good if you live in an 'unfriendly' environment. There is a lot of understanding etc. I think maybe identical and semi-duality can be good in this way too..making you feel loved.

[14Raptor19]

Adam always seems perceptive enough to know the exact sexuality of everyone.

It reminds me of how bad at that I am. Heck, a lot of time people pick up on hand gestures or expressions I don’t even begin to notice.

In my opinion, human interactions as a whole are just way too nit picky and tribal. We must let go of simple tastes and rivers of control, and instead become more of a conduit, a focus, a redirector. The path to liberation is an exquisite marble statue in the clouds of LiveWire colors and a value system greatly transcended above that of human popularity.

I also feel this way about so called scientific empiricism. The official measures don’t actually account for all types of evidence, perhaps most notably angel signs and workings of fate/destiny.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Yeah I hear what you're saying about guys wanting more life experience. I know an LIE who ended it with an ESE girl..the relationship seemed quite solid but he wanted to move away and she didn't- now suddenly after they've broken up he is happy staying in the same city. But it's annoying when men don't realise this about themselves- and make out that you're stifling them, when in fact they just want more freedom than is necessary.

My sis is with a dual now (they were friends at work, and he is a lot older than her). My problem is that in some ways I'm mature..and in others not. I have really strong principles but not the life experience to get inside the head of the average guy...I'm quite idealistic. I can't help it that much- developing strong values was a coping mechanism for me in a way- being nice and understanding made me happy when I was secretly living with quite serious problems. But I think men who are a little insecure can misinterpret my strong values and see me as judgemental..when in fact I'm just trying to be honest and open.

I was talking to an SLE who seemed nice, but all of a sudden I panicked and was a bit too 'honest' with him. (This may be partly due to me having long covid and feeling a bit overly emotional). Also, at the back of mind I knew I was ignoring a really nice seeming SEE guy....and I think I just couldn't deal with the slowness of talking to the SLE. I think I am finally putting my mental health first- I've been looking for someone (seriously) for over a year now and I think I just need to follow my gut, because anything else feels like I am not being kind to myself, and I think...for the kind of person I am...I really need to be kind to myself in order to be stable and not sink into depression. I can't be too nice to guys that aren't doing the same for me..because it just feels too wrong...I've spent my life trying to be a very strong person, and I think I have to honour that part of me, and let it protect me. This probably means not dating a dual lol, because quite frankly I'm probably too nice for them (of course if an amazing one came along etc). I consider myself to have a strong subtype, as well as a background of trauma and struggle, can Gulenko please tell me which type I should be with? lol. Maybe SEE or IEI.

It would have been good if I could have just kept talking to both the SEE and the SLE...but I think something in me is saying....try a semi-dual, if you have the chance. It will likely be a good experience...whatever comes of it....dating a dual...I think the experience could be hit or miss for someone like me.

I know people say a dual is great if you've had a life of struggle..you finally find someone who gets you etc. But I haven't had normal type of struggle....if that makes sense. In Gulenko's ITR description for look-a-like it says this ITR is good if you live in an 'unfriendly' environment. There is a lot of understanding etc. I think maybe identical and semi-duality can be good in this way too..making you feel loved.

You know...the healthy SLE I spoke of is with a wife that is very gentle and unassertive, but he helps her in this area. He doesn't walk on her just because she is too nice, but rather, he pushes her not to be too nice. Mature SLEs are really different. (They might be duals, not sure...never met her.)

[Bethanyclaire]

@Cat Lady yeah I’m sure they exist, honestly the guy I was talking to probably was nice..but something went wrong :s he seemed very introverted for an SLE..he got under my skin, I don’t really know why lol. Maybe he seemed too similar to me..I’m probably better off with someone who is quite mature, like you say, to make up for my lack of relationship experience, someone quite ordinary and wholesome

edit: I still don’t think they’re nice. But I accept them.

ok ok they can be nice sometimes

ok there are some nice ones

[lookin4waifu]

@Bethany Do you remember where the Gulenko article is from?

[Bethanyclaire]

@Bethany Do you remember where the Gulenko article is from?

it's from his book..about business relations

'In this relationship there is always a sense of security: each of them feels that the partner is non-threatening. This is very pleasant, especially if a person lives in an unfriendly environment'.

There is this article too, but it's about SEI/IEI mostly

Socionics - the16types.info - Business Relations INFp and ISFp by Stratiyevskaya

[Tallmo]

Hopefully, dating is not a lifestyle. Although, I suppose it could be, if you are not lucky.

@Tallmo, if you want to get on better terms with the woman who might be ILI, just ask her to plan the next date. Tell her you want to go somewhere interesting and get something to eat, and let her plan the details.
SEEs set the impulse and the direction, and ILIs set the details and the timing.

It also helps to act incredibly confident (but not mean) and hopelessly stupid about facts when around ILIs. It even helps to tell them that you are an idiot when it comes to details and facts. That's who they are looking for.


I've dated every introverted type in the socion (except SEIs), and, eventually, I got tired of imitating their Duals just to improve relations. But your mileage may vary.

I understand your point, and I have of course experienced it myself sometimes. But I am not good at taking a certain approach. I can't pretend to be her dual. If we meet again she might influence some dual like behaviour in me by her presence, and then it would be natural, but I wouldn't like to fake it.

And it's not like people necessarily need the dual in order to get things done either. So I rather forget about it if I can.

[EIE H]

My SLI friend basically said I am drawn to chaotic men and asked me if the LSI was like a drug… oof. I am supposedly two standard deviations from normal, according to him.

I hung out with LSI on Saturday for 12 hours and then the SLI yesterday for 6.5 hours. The two experiences were night and day. LSI took me to one of his favorite parks from his younger years, we had steak and salmon, and then chilled. SLI and I went to the state fair and it just wasn’t as fun and not as natural.

[Adam Strange]

My SLI friend basically said I am drawn to chaotic men and asked me if the LSI was like a drug… oof. I am supposedly two standard deviations from normal, according to him.

I hung out with LSI on Saturday for 12 hours and then the SLI yesterday for 6.5 hours. The two experiences were night and day. LSI took me to one of his favorite parks from his younger years, we had steak and salmon, and then chilled. SLI and I went to the state fair and it just wasn’t as fun and not as natural.

LSIs are not chaotic. LSIs are the opposite of chaotic.

[Bethanyclaire]

Oh I regret the way I talked to the interesting Estp. Not good….I hope there’s a serious lesson to be learnt. Socionics, I hope you’re finished scrambling my brain :/ I think I need a break from dates or I need to be ok with having on/off convos. And not rush to go on a date because dates can be quite exhausting and over-whelming, and catch up with you. Probably need to get better at setting up quick dates.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Is it possible to be traumatized from a relationship not because HE hurt you, but because the situation hurt you? AKA You hurt yourself by keeping yourself in the situation?
?

Because he was never toxic whatsoever. I WAS. His therapist said I'm probably bipolar. I'm NOT LOL. A desperately unhappy 4 at her wit's end, yes. The therapist said that my behavior basically screamed me trying to finally push HIM to just end it already. Yeah, that's what happens when you don't acknowledge your own deeper feelings. Just watch how convoluted and fucked up your own unconsciously-driven behavior will become.

So here's what happened that's making me think about this.
Today was the first day of class at university, and my 8am is in a huge lecture hall. My ex took the course last year. The prof explained the teaching staff- the profs, the TAs.. and then "Mentors" which are essentially students who previously took the class and aced it. On the next slide are 9 pictures of mentors in a 3x3 array, and there is my ex right smack in the middle of the collage on that huge screen in front of the class.
When I tell you how caught off guard and TERRIFIED I felt. I couldn't relax for another 20 minutes.

I told my mom and she said that's like a trauma response. I'm just trying to understand why I feel such a dramatic and traumatized-ish reaction when technically I'M the one who did the explicit hurting to him.

sx blind may imply trauma itself. some kind of mental framework that makes u act in a way thats not right but have somehow convinced urself it was. u said internalized misogynistic shame. u exposed something to someone that was shamed out of u, and then he used ur vulnerability to spite u when u had a weak moment and cheated. he may not even have masturbated before u would visit him but he said it as a revenge. or even if he had if he had bad intentions about it. that never got resolved. you used him and allowed urself to do that bc u believed the lies u were fed about sex and became what u should have fought against. i dont know if it would be right to blame you in the absolute sense. but i believe if someone admits their fault and has guilt for real meaning they attempt and walk the very harsh path to change themselves they shouldnt be punished/revenged against. maybe this means u havent changed something very important about urself that resulted in ur harming him, so u cant face him when u are still like that. if hes angry and rightfully so u may be afraid of that.

[lookin4waifu]

@persimmonism I agree with scawwy in that it sounds like he was quite toxic. It’s most worrying that you thought he was “never toxic whatsoever” and you were unable to see this. It’s a survival adaptation to turn a blind eye to the faults of someone you’re dependent on. I would look at that blind eye with your other eye if I were you, especially since assumingly you aren’t dependent on him anymore yet you still think that way about him.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

@persimmonism
if u hooked up with him without being sexually attracted, he may sense that and affect him even if ur not overt about it. its like u lied to him about being attracted to him, and he may have actually been attracted to you. then u kept it going with him when u were not the kind of person who would actually stay with him. this is if i understood ur story correctly. he wanted to keep you, like any sane human being wants to keep soemone in a relationship. he didnt want to hook up but wanted a relationship. and maybe he even wanted a relationship because he sensed something was wrong, but didnt know what it was so maybe a relationship would shed some light.
i dont know why he stopped getting attracted to you, if it was bc he was toxic and really not seeing the person in front of him, or becuase you were.

for stacking i recall it said it fluctuates.

[Bethanyclaire]

Is it possible to be traumatized from a relationship not because HE hurt you, but because the situation hurt you? AKA You hurt yourself by keeping yourself in the situation?
?
So here's what happened that's making me think about this.
Today was the first day of class at university, and my 8am is in a huge lecture hall. My ex took the course last year. The prof explained the teaching staff- the profs, the TAs.. and then "Mentors" which are essentially students who previously took the class and aced it. On the next slide are 9 pictures of mentors in a 3x3 array, and there is my ex right smack in the middle of the collage on that huge screen in front of the class.
When I tell you how caught off guard and TERRIFIED I felt. I couldn't relax for another 20 minutes.

I told my mom and she said that's like a trauma response. I'm just trying to understand why I feel such a dramatic and traumatized-ish reaction when technically I'M the one who did the explicit hurting to him.

No one wants to see their ex on a screen in their lecture hall but let’s hope the next time you see him or hear of him it won’t be quite as bad as that..

yes, you can feel traumatised by a situation. I’m sure some fault lies with him too- and I’m
sure he’ll learn something from the experience. It’ll take some time to move on, but you will work through it. It might feel chaotic thinking about it and intense, but this will decrease over time. You will gain some insight..and you will feel normal again. I’m not sure how to make the process quicker/ easier- distractions, fun activities with girl friends..Let yourself feel stuff, it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t make sense, write it down..I think it’s pretty hard to understand a break up/ break down in a romantic relationship..we try..I think the understanding happens on a more unconscious level..give yourself a bit of time.

[Bethanyclaire]

So I’m still chatting to an Esfp. Lol I’m so lame writing about guys I haven’t even met yet- not exactly dating lol. Anyway, if I meet the guy I’m not gonna talk about him on here unless it’s to ask for specific advice.


Re the dual I had a strange interaction with…I did manage to find him on social media. So I could get in touch with him
one day if I really wanted to…and see if he might change his mind. I’m not sure what went wrong but perhaps it wasn’t meant to be.


I feel like all the best duals got snapped up at the start of the pandemic when everyone was using dating apps. That combined with the fact it can be really hard to communicate with duals initially. I read somewhere that beta and delta duals have a harder time communicating than alpha/gamma duals. What does that mean for dating apps..


I think it can help if you have a natural spark, but that’s hard to find in someone in general on a dating app.


I think there is a significant difference in the ‘quality’ of semi-dual and dual relationships, but semi-duals are still exciting and loveable..and far better than some other types, and have a good chance of working long term. I have my eye on another SEI too, maybe at this point in my life I need some SF love.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I'm with my LIE again. I feel bad for some of the things I said on here about him, because some things were actually my own PTSD talking. When we get into fights it sometimes triggers it. I learned my lesson about using public spaces for venting.

[Park]

I'm with myself again. Gonna fire up the BBQ for labor day and fix myself some juicy steak.

[Bethanyclaire]

I miss my IEE crush I worked with a few years ago. I could actually see us being in each other's lives again. My sister also had a crush/ short term relationship with a contrary partner and she says she knows she'll always be friends with him. Something special about this dynamic..when it's good. I don't think I can be friends with many males I admire or fancy so it would be nice if we reunited one day. Just thinking about these pairs together is cute- the sweet SEI loving the unappreciated SEE..aww.

edit:

I feel like this relation (for friendship mainly) is potentially really good for people who are depressives/ anxious and need to feel love and passion. I'm sure other ITR are better 'quality' but this one just feels extremely special to me. Knowing there are IEEs out there I can befriend if I need to, is a great comfort to me. They help me to keep going and cheer me up. Even if sometimes they give me unhelpful advice, the good advice more than makes up for it. And they find something to love in me and it feels very real.

I keep thinking about types/ subtypes and gender....and what makes a friendship/ relationship feel passionate/ romantic/ close.

[Adam Strange]

There is a married LIE manager at a company that we work with who has information-coordination meetings on Zoom every week.

He recently started working with an ESI finance guy and he’s fallen in love. Lol. He’s fallen into a supportive Duality, and now he wants everyone to meet this guy.

I’m happy for the two of them, but it’s kind of strange to see how much the LIE likes the ESI. Almost too much, it seems. The LIE is not aware of why he thinks this ESI guy is so great, but he knows that he is.

I can’t really fault him for that. I probably look the same way when I’m out with the 27 yo ESI-Se decorator. “Oh, you see an incompatibility because of our age difference? Well, fuck off, bud. She and I are together against the world.”

Of course, we’re “together” primarily in a Socionics sense. There really are some huge differences which, when I gloss over them, lead to trouble. Duality has a seductive quality to it which can make you throw caution to the wind, and it’s only later that you see where and why you went wrong. Duals don’t cover all your screw ups.

Nevertheless, I think that Socionics explains 80% of team-building.

[Adam Strange]

When I was dating an LSI female, back when I was 25 years old, I kind of fell in love with her. For sure, the sex was fantastic, so I tried really hard to tell myself that I also loved her. I even managed to tell her that once.

This "all or nothing" thing might be a flaw in the design of 1D Fi people.

Anyway, to an LIE like myself, a relationship with an LSI is called Mirage, and for reasons that I didn't understand at the time, I didn't want my friends to meet her. I mean, we lived with each other, but neither of us wanted to bring our friends into the relationship, or tell anyone at work (which is where we met) that we were seeing each other.

The exact same thing happened to me right after my divorce. I met an LSI through a group we both belong to, we started having great sex but never introduced each other to our friends, and neither of us wanted the group to find out that we were seeing each other.

I don't think that these two events were similar by accident.

[Bethanyclaire]

@Adam Strange yeah when I think of the ILEs I’ve fancied..they seem special, but I can’t put my finger on why. And I have a dear ILE friend. He is young and in a relationship and I don’t like him like that…but I don’t think we can hang out one to one really. I like his group of friends so it shouldn’t matter for now, I think we both want to have intimate conversations because we have a good connection..but I think we have to revolve the friendship around our shared interest and not each other..it’s a way of keeping it intimate but not too intimate. Can try anyway. It’s kinda the opposite problem to what you mention…finding a way to hold on to the intimacy without having true intimacy lol

But I think if I dated an ILE I would be ok showing them off to my friends..I see your point about 1D fi.

The ILE needs to be quite special for me to notice them

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange yeah when I think of the ILEs I’ve fancied..they seem special, but I can’t put my finger on why. And I have a dear ILE friend. He is young and in a relationship and I don’t like him like that…but I don’t think we can hang out one to one really. I like his group of friends so it shouldn’t matter for now, I think we both want to have intimate conversations because we have a good connection..but I think we have to revolve the friendship around our shared interest and not each other..it’s a way of keeping it intimate but not too intimate. Can try anyway. It’s kinda the opposite problem to what you mention…finding a way to hold on to the intimacy without having true intimacy lol

But I think if I dated an ILE I would be ok showing them off to my friends..I see your point about 1D fi.

The ILE needs to be quite special for me to notice them

@Bethany, I have no problem at all with introducing any of the ESIs that I know to my friends.

However, the ESIs seem to be a lot slower to admit me into their lives.

There is a description somewhere of dating ESIs which says that if they don’t invite you into their house, your chances with them are almost nonexistent. Their friend circle might be similar.