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Thread: Adventures in Dating

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Trust your instincts, Bethany. I think they are reliable.
    yep, that with a bit of time, sleep and advice..

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    I never had a romantic relationship. I should get out of my schizoid head first and then try some adventures in this particular side of life.

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    I had the most fun and progress when I approached dating curiously and without attaching too many hopes to it. Not that I didn't pay attention to warning signs, didn't do some filtering, always had the "best" experiences, etc. And I definitely had a long game, so to speak. But for a long time I had certain expectations and predetermined notions of how things should go and where they should end up, and that stifled me.

    I think there's a balance between being too open and getting hurt or taken advantage of (or murdered) and being too closed where you miss out on everything.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    I thought I was done with this site, but I’m back because I miss y’all and also I need a place to rant about the first psuedo-romantic experience I’ve had since freshman year of high school. Not even a true rant, I just wanna vent what happened because the hurtful words keep swirling around in my brain and I need to get them out. Typing stuff at the end.


    A couple weeks ago, I downloaded a pen pal app called Slowly and ended up receiving a letter from a 21 year-old Christian guy who lives in Colorado. Since he was an interesting, intelligent, and witty individual, a very silly romantic part of me was like “maybe this isn’t a coincidence but God Himself wanting us to meet??” Lmao. But I realized that was silly, so I just sent back a letter as I normally would. No flirting—after all, it’s a pen pal app, not a freaking long-distance dating app.


    But then, he started addressing me as “Miss Dreyma” at the beginning of his letters. Essentially said that he thought I was charming/interesting and hoped that I was charmed by him too. So, uh, I did flirt back a little. At least, I think I did. I don’t really understand how flirting works, but I think it’s just banter or compliments usually.


    That’s when things started to go downhill, which was my fault. When I’m talking to people one-on-one online, it’s so easy for me to overshare. I just trust people way faster than I should and get way too vulnerable. Anyhow, a couple letters into our conversation, a topic came up that made me think of my worst/only secret. And for some reason, I decided it would be okay to share said secret—so I did. (I will NOT be making the same mistake here pft, hence the vagueness.)


    He responded to the secret-reveal part of my letter by basically stating that he had no idea what to say about it. Not a mean statement but something that made me feel uncomfortable with having shared the information. I worried that he was judging me and felt too embarrassed to continue the conversation, so my next letter was a very apologetic goodbye in which I explained that I felt like I’d overshared and was too embarrassed to keep talking.


    He wrote me a letter reassuring me that it wasn’t a big deal and asked me to keep talking, so I felt relieved and continued the conversation. Unfortunately, things never did revert to the previous tone of conversation.


    We ended up having an argument about the Biblically-correct view of gender roles, even though we technically did agree on the issue. I’m just angry about it anyways, which he struggled to understand. (It’s called cognitive dissonance, folks.) I didn’t mind the argument itself, because it was more of a civil discussion than a heated disagreement. What I found irksome was him, after the fact, playing a blame-game. He insisted that I was the one who had started the exhausting discussion and had “really wanted” to talk about gender.


    The finger-pointing + a couple jabs at me + some random teasing about my secret sent me into defensive mode. I was upset since I’d said nothing but kind things to him. In response, I reminded him of how, actually, *he* had been the one to start the gender discussion. In regards to his jabs, I basically said that I didn’t appreciate him being so condescending/negative towards me, and I told him that the secret was a sore spot for me.


    In his next letter, he admitted that he’d been negative and was extremely apologetic. He took responsibility for how the things he said could’ve been hurtful. (Not that it *was* hurtful to me. Just annoying, I guess.) He also sent a few conversation starters.


    The questions were about what I’m really good at, what I’m passionate about, and what my dream home would be. Again, I was vulnerable/honest and admitted that—though I am decently good many things and am decently interested in many things—I am not really good at anything or passionate about anything. And then I described my dream house, which is rather average/boring.


    He responded by saying that he’d made a mistake, misjudged me. (Interestingly, he’d earlier bragged about how he was great at reading people pft.) He said he’d initially thought that I was interesting and not like others girls (yes, he used that exact phrase unironically)—but I turned out to be a boring/uninteresting cliché suburban white girl. He said he was sorry for asking me to stay after I went crazy. There was a bit more to his rude rant than that, but the jist of it was me being a crazy girl and a boring/uninteresting/lame individual. He at least had the self-awareness to admit that he was being a bully. But he essentially claimed it was justified for him to hurt me since I supposedly had hurt him earlier by almost leaving. And he said that I should’ve at least listed Jesus as a passion, that my faith is lukewarm/watery. He’s right about that, sadly.


    I should’ve known he was overly judgmental when he ranted about disliking atheists… and weebs… and left-leaning people… and people who go to the wilderness to hang out with others rather than to enjoy the solitude of nature… and Californians… and professors… and stereotypical bookworms… and the list goes on and on. I guess I *did* realize. I even said at one point “if you’re this judgmental, it’s only gonna be a matter of time before you want to rant about *me.*” He denied that he would, but I was right in hindsight.


    It was honestly quite hurtful. I often worry that I’m way more mentally/emotionally unwell than the average person, so being called “crazy” just hit me in the gut. Similarly, I worry that I’m a dull person without anything interesting to say, so being called “boring” and “cliché” just cemented that fear. On top of all that, I did have a crush on him despite how judgmental he was—and rejection always stings.


    I feel incredibly pathetic for allowing a very brief letter exchange to affect my emotional state this much, but I’ve felt pretty down because of this for the past couple days. As pitiful as it is, this is probably the closest thing I’ve had to a break-up lmao. I’ve never had anyone initially like me and then dislike me as they got to know me more. It makes me feel like, these days, I’m too unhealthy for the “just be yourself” advice to be effective.


    Anyways, thank you for reading my rant if you had the patience to make it this far. If anyone would be interested in typing him, I’d be curious. I initially thought LSE for fairly superficial reasons, based on what people here have said about my dual. Enjoys the typical “guy activities” like fishing and football and yard work and fixing stuff. Seemed potentially Te-base in how passionate he was about reading/learning and in how intimidatingly knowledgable was for someone only a couple years older than me. He did mention being introverted but not liking the connotations of the word since it implies him being shy / lacking confidence. Struck me as kinda LSE-ish since I’ve seen people say that they’re socially introverted for an extraverted type.
    Last edited by Dreymagine; 07-07-2022 at 12:58 AM. Reason: Quite a few miscellaneous small additions, clarifications and typo corrections; I should’ve edited more before posting oof

  5. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    I thought I was done with this site, but I’m back because I miss y’all and also I need a place to rant about the first psuedo-romantic experience I’ve had since freshman year of high school. Not even a true rant, I just wanna vent what happened because the hurtful words keep swirling around in my brain and I need to get them out. Typing stuff at the end.


    A couple weeks ago, I downloaded a pen pal app called Slowly and ended up receiving a letter from a 21 year-old Christian guy who lives in Colorado. Since he was an interesting, intelligent, and witty individual, a very silly romantic part of me was like “maybe this isn’t a coincidence but God Himself wanting us to meet??” Lmao. But I realized that was silly, so I just sent back a letter as I normally would. No flirting—after all, it’s a pen pal app, not a freaking long-distance dating app.


    But then, he started addressing me as “Miss Dreyma” at the beginning of his letters. Essentially said that he thought I was charming/interesting and hoped that I was charmed by him too. So, uh, I did flirt back a little. At least, I think I did. I don’t really understand how flirting works, but I think it’s just banter or compliments usually.


    That’s when things started to go downhill, which was my fault. When I’m talking to people one-on-one online, it’s so easy for me to overshare. I just trust people way faster than I should and get way too vulnerable. Anyhow, a couple letters into our conversation, a topic came up that made me think of my worst/only secret. And for some reason, I decided it would be okay to share said secret—so I did. (I will NOT be making the same mistake here pft, hence the vagueness.)


    He responded to the secret-reveal part of my letter by basically stating that he had no idea what to say about it. Not a mean statement but something that made me feel uncomfortable with having shared the information. I worried that he was judging me and felt too embarrassed to continue the conversation, so my next letter was a very apologetic goodbye in which I explained that I felt like I’d overshared and was too embarrassed to keep talking.


    He wrote me a letter reassuring me that it wasn’t a big deal and asked me to keep talking, so I felt relieved and continued the conversation. Unfortunately, things never did revert to the previous tone of conversation.


    We ended up having an argument about the Biblically-correct view of gender roles, even though we technically did agree on the issue. I’m just angry about it anyways, which he struggled to understand. (It’s called cognitive dissonance, folks.) I didn’t mind the argument itself, because it was more of a civil discussion than a heated disagreement. What I found irksome was him, after the fact, playing a blame-game. He insisted that I was the one who had started the exhausting discussion and had “really wanted” to talk about gender.


    The finger-pointing + a couple jabs at me + some random teasing about my secret sent me into defensive mode. I was upset since I’d said nothing but kind things to him. In response, I reminded him of how, actually, *he* had been the one to start the gender discussion. In regards to his jabs, I basically said that I didn’t appreciate him being so condescending/negative towards me, and I told him that the secret was a sore spot for me.


    In his next letter, he admitted that he’d been negative and was extremely apologetic. He took responsibility for how the things he said could’ve been hurtful. (Not that it *was* hurtful to me. Just annoying, I guess.) He also sent a few conversation starters.


    The questions were about what I’m really good at, what I’m passionate about, and what my dream home would be. Again, I was vulnerable/honest and admitted that—though I am decently good many things and am decently interested in many things—I am not really good at anything or passionate about anything. And then I described my dream house, which is rather average/boring.


    He responded by saying that he’d made a mistake, misjudged me. (Interestingly, he’d earlier bragged about how he was great at reading people pft.) He said he’d initially thought that I was interesting and not like others girls (yes, he used that exact phrase unironically)—but I turned out to be a boring/uninteresting cliché suburban white girl. He said he was sorry for asking me to stay after I went crazy. There was a bit more to his rude rant than that, but the jist of it was me being a crazy girl and a boring/uninteresting/lame individual. He at least had the self-awareness to admit that he was being a bully. But he essentially claimed it was justified for him to hurt me since I supposedly had hurt him earlier by almost leaving. And he said that I should’ve at least listed Jesus as a passion, that my faith is lukewarm/watery. He’s right about that, sadly.


    I should’ve known he was overly judgmental when he ranted about disliking atheists… and weebs… and left-leaning people… and people who go to the wilderness to hang out with others rather than to enjoy the solitude of nature… and Californians… and professors… and stereotypical bookworms… and the list goes on and on. I guess I *did* realize. I even said at one point “if you’re this judgmental, it’s only gonna be a matter of time before you want to rant about *me.*” He denied that he would, but I was right in hindsight.


    It was honestly quite hurtful. I often worry that I’m way more mentally/emotionally unwell than the average person, so being called “crazy” just hit me in the gut. Similarly, I worry that I’m a dull person without anything interesting to say, so being called “boring” and “cliché” just cemented that fear. On top of all that, I did have a crush on him despite how judgmental he was—and rejection always stings.


    I feel incredibly pathetic for allowing a very brief letter exchange to affect my emotional state this much, but I’ve felt pretty down because of this for the past couple days. As pitiful as it is, this is probably the closest thing I’ve had to a break-up lmao. I’ve never had anyone initially like me and then dislike me as they got to know me more. It makes me feel like, these days, I’m too unhealthy for the “just be yourself” advice to be effective.


    Anyways, thank you for reading my rant if you had the patience to make it this far. If anyone would be interested in typing him, I’d be curious. I initially thought LSE for fairly superficial reasons, based on what people here have said about my dual. Enjoys the typical “guy activities” like fishing and football and yard work and fixing stuff. Seemed potentially Te-base in how passionate he was about reading/learning and in how intimidatingly knowledgable was for someone only a couple years older than me. He did mention being introverted but not liking the connotations of the word since it implies him being shy / lacking confidence. Struck me as kinda LSE-ish since I’ve seen people say that they’re socially introverted for an extraverted type.
    @Dreymagine, I'm sorry that your experience with this guy didn't turn out well. Nobody, and I mean nobody, likes rejection. But I think that's just something that we risk when we put ourselves out there to try to connect with another person. If it's any consolation, you'd probably have much better luck when dealing with someone in person, since it's very hard to evaluate a person remotely.

    I don't think you provided enough information to really type this guy, although as you were describing him, I did picture an LSE, although that might be due to my inclination to pair people with their Duals.

    Having someone initially say that they really like you and then later say that they were wrong about you being an amazing person is both tragic and laughable. Sorry, but it kind of is. I mean, I think that 99% of all guys will tell a woman that she's amazing upon an initial meeting. She could be scary ugly and stupid and a guy will still talk her up. It's just the urge to reproduce speaking. At least, it is in my case. I'm sure that there are guys out there who will deny that they do this.
    I think it just goes with the dating territory, and you should ignore it in favor of watching what the guy does, not says, long term. Which is what you were doing, I'd say.

    I actually have a theory of interpersonal dating now. I think of two people as being surrounded by a magnetic attraction-repulsion field. If you meet a Quasi-Identical, the fields between the two of you are pure repulsion. If a Conflictor, the fields are slightly attractive at a distance, and then become repulsive as they get closer.
    If you meet a semi-Dual, the fields are attractive until you get very close, and then they become repulsive in the last few inches. If a Dual, the fields are vaguely mixed at a distance, have a slight repulsive hump a few feet out, and then become purely attractive from there to zero distance.

    So, most people have some optimum distance at which their influence is best. For Quasis, it's infinity. For Duals, it's zero. For everyone else, it's somewhere in-between. But it's easiest to "feel" these fields of attraction and repulsion in person. They just don't show up well over text.

    So, use this experience to know that you were right about the guy eventually treating you the same way that he treats the least important person in his life, and try again with some guy that you meet in person. I think you'll do a lot better that way.

    Good luck to you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm sorry that your experience with this guy didn't turn out well.


    Thanks for the sympathy. Ultimately, I’m glad it didn’t work out.
    By his own admission, he was a bully at the end—provoked to that level of rudeness by nothing more than me being boring. Seems like a judgmenal jerk (though I suppose I’m being judgmental myself in saying that). Plus, he doesn’t live in the same state as me and I don’t plan to move in the foreseeable future, so it’s unlikely that our paths would’ve aligned, even if our personalities had proven to be compatible. I’m not hurt by him cutting things off, just by how he went about it. I’ll get over it, though. To be honest, I think I have already; writing it down and sharing it was cathartic.

    If it's any consolation, you'd probably have much better luck when dealing with someone in person, since it's very hard to evaluate a person remotely.

    It’s a bit of a consolation, though I’ve never had much luck with drawing the attention of guys who aren’t extremely desperate and hitting up every single girl within a fifty-mile radius. On the bright side, as I get older I’m becoming more and more okay with the idea of being a lifelong single.

    I don't think you provided enough information to really type this guy
    True, I meant a vibe typing based on what information I provided—but looking back, the details I stated are probably too limited, even for a vibe type.

    I mean, I think that 99% of all guys will tell a woman that she's amazing upon an initial meeting. She could be scary ugly and stupid and a guy will still talk her up.
    Gosh, that’s annoying. So disingenuous. I don’t think I’d ever talk up a guy who I wasn’t seriously impressed with in some way. And even then, my natural inclination wouldn’t be to reveal the full extent to which I’m impressed. Maybe because I don’t want to seem like a shamless flatterer or desperate. Maybe because I want to know that, if the guy says he likes me, it’s because he actually likes me and not because he likes the ego boost that my compliments give him. Maybe it’s because, like in this case, I could end up openly giving a guy compliments, only for him insult me in the end—which makes me feel like the “inferior” party, in a way. But like you said, rejection is the risk we run whenever we try to connect with people—and in general, it’s worth it.

    I actually have a theory of interpersonal dating now. I think of two people as being surrounded by a magnetic attraction-repulsion field. If you meet a Quasi-Identical, the fields between the two of you are pure repulsion. If a Conflictor, the fields are slightly attractive at a distance, and then become repulsive as they get closer.
    If you meet a semi-Dual, the fields are attractive until you get very close, and then they become repulsive in the last few inches. If a Dual, the fields are vaguely mixed at a distance, have a slight repulsive hump a few feet out, and then become purely attractive from there to zero distance.

    So, most people have some optimum distance at which their influence is best. For Quasis, it's infinity. For Duals, it's zero. For everyone else, it's somewhere in-between. But it's easiest to "feel" these fields of attraction and repulsion in person. They just don't show up well over text.
    Interesting theory.

    Good luck to you!
    Thank ya, good luck to you in your search for a compatible ESI who isn’t a lesbian.

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    @Dreymagine he sounds really annoying. And like you say- a bully. He seems way too confident in being a little bitch online. People should be able to control themselves. You are not those things he said about you- he just wants to feel like the conversation is worthwhile for him and that he has ‘taught’ you something. It’s immaturity or idiocy if he can’t empathise with your viewpoint. Well done for being brave and talking to someone. I agree with Adam that it’s easier in person but even then people can be confusing. I think it’s better to have fairly casual conversation at first- people shouldn’t have to tell you what type of person they are, you’ll be able to tell soon enough after some normal, low key convos. You seem intelligent and very nice- you’ll be able to figure out which guys are worth getting to know. Might take a few attempts. You reminded me a bit of my EII friend at uni in your post- and she always got boyfriends no one really ever put themselves out there for me- even though I’m cute enough and nice. Don’t let shyness stop you from looking for love. Because maybe the the type of guy that likes you is a little shy too.

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    Aww, @Dreymagine, I'm sorry he hurt you. As an interior design / color specialist I like says, "Boring is timeless," which encourages me lol because I consider myself fairly boring especially when I was younger. Reliability seems like a very underrated relational quality. Also, being "judgmental" and having boundaries can look similar but are quite different.

    One time there was a guy I met on an online dating site and we had a lot of good written back and forth. He was articulate and overall intelligent. We swapped stories and opinions, and when we met up he was pretty enthusiastic and complimentary in expressing his liking, going a little bit past the point where I felt it was reasonable. We went on a couple of in-person dates and the third one in he wanted to start getting physical. I told him I wasn't quite ready for that, that I needed time to get there, and his demeanor shifted.

    Medium story short, he ended up berating me by text, calling me (among other things) "primitive" and "repressed." He said he'd had his doubts about me from near the beginning of our conversations but wanted to give it a shot because I seemed nice. He said the only reason anyone these days would want to go slow physically is if they'd been raped. And he was pretty sure no other man would want me.

    Basically, he seemed to be trying to bully me into sleeping with him. It was annoying but also kind of amusing because that doesn't make any sense at all. I told him it's ok to have his preferences but no need to be unkind about it and goodbye.

    Several months later I get a random "I miss our conversations " email from him. I didn't bother replying; he'd shown his colors and they didn't match mine.


    Anyway, this 21-year-old in your story might grow up a little over the next few years and realize some of his insecurities and mistakes, or he might not. He's shown where he's at right now, and you don't deserve to be his stepping stones or punching bag.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Aww, @Dreymagine, I'm sorry he hurt you. As an interior design / color specialist I like says, "Boring is timeless," which encourages me lol because I consider myself fairly boring especially when I was younger. Reliability seems like a very underrated relational quality. Also, being "judgmental" and having boundaries can look similar but are quite different.
    That's encouraging to me as well. Thank you <3

    One time there was a guy I met on an online dating site and we had a lot of good written back and forth. He was articulate and overall intelligent. We swapped stories and opinions, and when we met up he was pretty enthusiastic and complimentary in expressing his liking, going a little bit past the point where I felt it was reasonable. We went on a couple of in-person dates and the third one in he wanted to start getting physical. I told him I wasn't quite ready for that, that I needed time to get there, and his demeanor shifted.

    Medium story short, he ended up berating me by text, calling me (among other things) "primitive" and "repressed." He said he'd had his doubts about me from near the beginning of our conversations but wanted to give it a shot because I seemed nice. He said the only reason anyone these days would want to go slow physically is if they'd been raped. And he was pretty sure no other man would want me.

    Basically, he seemed to be trying to bully me into sleeping with him. It was annoying but also kind of amusing because that doesn't make any sense at all. I told him it's ok to have his preferences but no need to be unkind about it and goodbye.

    Several months later I get a random "I miss our conversations " email from him. I didn't bother replying; he'd shown his colors and they didn't match mine.
    Blah, the dude in your story sounds so rude—and clueless if he genuinely thinks rape trauma is the only reason a girl would wanna go slow physically. I'm sorry you had to deal with that 3: It sounds like you responded in a way more mature fashion than I did to the bullying, so kudos to you.

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    My EIE cruch confessed to me, and since I've been in love with him for a long time, I also confessed, but we didn't date

    We discussed marriage, but it is difficult because we live in different countries, and there is a difference between my family’s sect and his, and even though I left my family’s sect a long time ago, I will not be able to marry him because both of our families will not accept each other , especially my dad and his dad

    So it end up with being just friends

    I'm sad now , but I wish him the best anyway although I will still love him for a long time

    I'm trying to hold on to that indifferent part of me, which tells me I don't really like him, and it's just my sx second who takes a player attitude, but at the same time I laugh at myself for this naive excuse


    If you don't belong , don't be long

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    Blah, the dude in your story sounds so rude—and clueless if he genuinely thinks rape trauma is the only reason a girl would wanna go slow physically.
    It was mostly puzzling to me. Like how or why does he think that's some sort of argument? I mean, what if I _had_ been raped? Is triggering my traumas going to make me want to fall into his arms? For as intelligent and aware as he came across initially, the types of arguments and shaming he tried to utilize really didn't make sense or have a logic to it. He partly acted like he was trying to convince me of his view and partly acted like a 2 year old having a tantrum. Not appealing! Definitely not sexy lol.

    People are weird sometimes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    I'm sorry you had to deal with that 3: It sounds like you responded in a way more mature fashion than I did to the bullying, so kudos to you.
    Thanks! It helped that I was not very emotionally attached to him. It also helped a lot that by that point I had become fairly confident in who I was and what I wanted, so it upset me less than it would have when I was 19. Much like you, though, I did do some venting at the time.

    Personally, I think you're handling it well. You're processing it and you've learned things. I'd give you a hug if you were a hugging person and nearby.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Thinking aloud.. It’s really hard to tell if you fancy someone..when a. You know their type…b. You meet them on a dating app.

    You can’t trust your instincts as much.

    I think I can tell when I need to be careful..e.g if they’re really hot (rare).

    but maybe first impressions are important too..I’m not sure I’ve ever fancied a dual who ‘grew on me’. There was one guy I thought was cute..but honestly he sounded like a bit of a wannabe player and I’m not sure he would have been right for me

    Dating is your 30s is hard. People are either still insecure..or still looking for the ‘the one’..
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-09-2022 at 03:03 PM.

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    The dual I had some dates with turned out to be kinda weird. It was a confusing and interesting situation..I had a lot of empathy for this person but we had significant communication problems. I think we were too similar in a way-he was quiet and anxious and softly spoken. I think I have to go on a date with a non-dual now, because I keep getting distracted by duals and I told myself I wanted to meet someone by summer. Also..I think if you date other people..even if you do still chat to duals..it’s maybe better because you can be more casual about it..and that’s ok..coz it’s a lot to pressure talking to duals and it can go wrong easily/feel too stressful.

    plus there’s a sweet guy who seems keen and is making me laugh………
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-12-2022 at 07:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Thinking aloud.. It’s really hard to tell if you fancy someone..when a. You know their type…b. You meet them on a dating app.

    You can’t trust your instincts as much.

    I think I can tell when I need to be careful..e.g if they’re really hot (rare).

    but maybe first impressions are important too..I’m not sure I’ve ever fancied a dual who ‘grew on me’. There was one guy I thought was cute..but honestly he sounded like a bit of a wannabe player and I’m not sure he would have been right for me

    Dating is your 30s is hard. People are either still insecure..or still looking for the ‘the one’..
    Why is it harder when you know their type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Thinking aloud.. It’s really hard to tell if you fancy someone..when a. You know their type…b. You meet them on a dating app.

    You can’t trust your instincts as much.

    I think I can tell when I need to be careful..e.g if they’re really hot (rare).

    but maybe first impressions are important too..I’m not sure I’ve ever fancied a dual who ‘grew on me’. There was one guy I thought was cute..but honestly he sounded like a bit of a wannabe player and I’m not sure he would have been right for me

    Dating is your 30s is hard. People are either still insecure..or still looking for the ‘the one’..
    I feel like it's hard to pick someone I like if I know their type. Like I find them attractive, might think they are cool, but if I know their type I start thinking of how the ITR will play out instead of just seeing for myself. It's harder to allow myself to like someone I actually like if I know their type.

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    I feel like I like it more when someone likes me for my use of my creative function than my base function. If feels like I earn their attraction, like I'm doing something attractive than passively being attractive to them with something I can't control. Like when someone likes me for my base function sometimes it can feel like I'm a monkey in a zoo, I know they aren't trying to make me feel that way, but it's not something I can control but they seem to like the condition I have, which doesn't give me a sense of pride. I guess I feel a sense of pride when I can actively attract someone with my creative than just be a sort of spectacle or magnet for someone and not know why. Maybe also because I want someone to like me for what I like about myself, which is my Ne, my pride and joy. This is what I feel like I have to offer. While my base function can feel like a trap sometimes.
    Makes me think maybe other people want to be liked for what they take pride in and like about themselves too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by persimmonism View Post
    Why is it harder when you know their type?
    Hmm..probably because I want either a dual or semi-dual. So when I talk to them..I’m kinda hoping that I’ll see some long-term potential in them. And during the initial parts of interaction/ first date or two..I project on to them what I want.

    When it comes to other sociotypes, I can foresee too many problems ‘potentially’ happening..and it puts me off them. If I met an ILE I really fancied..or a SLI that seemed super solid I’d also go for those types.

    Maybe I shouldn’t limit myself- for example maybe an identical type could be ok/get attached to me

    I’m gonna trying to be more relaxed in my interactions now..I think you do start to ‘feel out’ what you need from someone..the more you date..

    also maybe ‘hotness’ is a better indicator of a relationship working..as in genuine attraction, not simply sexual attraction (which can be genuine but maybe not for long term..)

    Some SEEs/ SLEs may be perfectly adequate for me/ me them- but if there isn’t that in your face spark right away..maybe there’s a strong chance they’re gonna dump you still lol

    I also seem to be getting used to SLE faces..and I feel like maybe I'm less fussy about their looks now..more fussy about their personality........
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-12-2022 at 01:50 PM.

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    Have you ever dated someone and really liked them and you put a lot of work into the relationship, but they didn’t seem all that interested in reciprocating?

    You can ask yourself why they aren’t that much into you, but the answer really doesn’t matter. They’re not going to change, no matter how much you bend over backwards for them. It’s best to move on.

    A couple years ago, I was having lunch with a newly-divorced male ESI. At the time, I was dating an ESI who seemed good and I was feeling upbeat, and he was feeling down.
    ”I haven’t really dated since high school”, he said. “Dating is hard. It’s really hard.”

    Well, that particular ESI dating relationship crashed and burned. She told me right from the start that she wasn’t looking for anything serious. Why didn’t I listen to her? I was obviously listening too hard to my own need to connect.

    My friend was almost right. I think that dating is easy, but finding someone whose “numbers” equal your numbers, and who wants you as much as you want them, is hard.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-13-2022 at 02:04 PM.

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    @Adam Strange
    Yeah it is hard. But you do learn from it. I think when you really like someone it’s easy to keep on holding on to a glimmer of hope. There’s a doc who episode where Martha, the doc’s companion decides she has to leave the doc because she likes him and he’s still in love with his previous companion..Whilst you’re around the person, it’s hard to give up on them.


    God I had some bad crushes when I was young. You can live of a crush when you’re young..maybe not so young. And I don’t see crushes as trivial like an SF might


    I think one has to be particularly careful with dating apps. My sister really doesn’t like them..you get thrown together with people who seem kinda interesting..but you don’t really know why- often you don’t have much in common. I think this can make attraction and chemistry dynamics more confusing. Although they do seem to work for people in the end..


    atm I’m looking for interaction that simply feels light and simple

    edit: I give up on dating apps lol, like I now have no expectations from anyone I match with.

    Last edited by Bethany; 07-19-2022 at 06:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iconoclast View Post
    I never had a romantic relationship. I should get out of my schizoid head first and then try some adventures in this particular side of life.
    This is more common for introverts than extraverts. EIE should have no problems ''getting out of their heads'' and have adventures (especialy romantic, where ethical types are confident), besides non-type factors like mental illness/other things. Perhaps consider IEI as a possible type, too.

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    Joined an MBTI dating app and got some matches. Who knows if people's types are their real types and how it all translates, but it has been interesting, seems fun so far.

    Currently in a conversation with an MBTI ENTJ and I need an abort button, nothing wrong with her but I she has a flirty style that clearly would work on an aggressor, innuendos and kinky stuff, and I played too much into it and now I need to get out lol.

    It's hilarious because the other girl I'm in a conversation with is an ENFP and it's the most innocent convo ever. "What's you're favorite icecream flavor" LOL.

  22. #662
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    All of this dating stuff requires skill and charming moves to magically summon the wand of seizing and mastering the less focused and spell-wieldy.
    https://sabrinacasey.webstarts.com/9systemswishes
    https://sabrinacasey.webstarts.com/evolvedraichu
    Pokemon is somewhere fun over the Rainbow emblazoned by the Power of 4ever. The clouds soar and the island escalates a Lugia petal dance tempest blizzarding shiny Ash. Evanescence sparkles glistening auroras of mirth and high frequency channels embarking with the winds of new beginnings. This magical adventure turns on at the dawn of time in 2000. Ceremony and enchantment dazzle the world with colors galore. Mania and extravagance shape shift and transform into the greatest show on earth, the evolution of Pokemon
    Something has arrived. That threatens to throw everything terribly out of balance. When it comes, will you accept your destiny? And when it’s your chance to be a hero, will you rise to the challenge? This year, discover how 1 person can make all the difference! Pokemon the Movie 2000 The Power of 1

  23. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Joined an MBTI dating app and got some matches. Who knows if people's types are their real types and how it all translates, but it has been interesting, seems fun so far.

    Currently in a conversation with an MBTI ENTJ and I need an abort button, nothing wrong with her but I she has a flirty style that clearly would work on an aggressor, innuendos and kinky stuff, and I played too much into it and now I need to get out lol.

    It's hilarious because the other girl I'm in a conversation with is an ENFP and it's the most innocent convo ever. "What's you're favorite icecream flavor" LOL.
    Some people on Tinder also give their mbti type, or they have at least taken a test and think they know the type. (This is in Finland, might be different in other countries). I have met some of them. Sometimes the type is right, but often it is completely wrong. "INFJ" seems to be a popular type, because the MBTI description of it is flattering, or so it used to be back in the day when I read the descriptions. I have met LSE and SLE who think they are "INFJ".

    But in dating the only thing that matters is the result, and I am sure MBTI dating is worth trying.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    I just joined a Christian dating app. For people who are more "traditional" and are looking for a serious relationship. I am very far from a traditional Christian believer, but I got into Christianity through depth psychology, and I am genuinely interested in religion, tradition, symbolism and Christianity, so I kindof feel at home in this app. And I wouldn't mind a serious relationship. Even got an interesting match yesterday.

    Might be worth trying for other people here also.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

  25. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    in aroundabout way (low si?)
    Watching their best friend throw their young life away for 8 years+? Harassing you to listen to their problems, not realising yours are actually worse? Even though they do know really. They’re very good at blanking stuff out that makes them uncomfortable.


    Yes, this is recognizable from the IEEs who I know. Because they always ponder the myriad ways (Ne) in which their life (Fi) can go right or wrong, they keep talking exclusively about themselves and their problems, completely forgetting in the process that the person listening to them has a life and problems of their own. In an unintentional way, IEEs tend to be really self-centered in the most literal sense of the word, fixating on their problems to the extent of ignoring the needs of others. Also their sense of humour can be self-centered in that way, because they do almost anything, really anything, for laughs, because they crave the attention.
    While ILEs are intellectual attention whores, IEEs are emotional attention whores. SEEs are status attention whores, ESEs social attention whores, EIEs ideological attention whores, SLEs daredevil attention whores, and LIEs success attention whores. All extroverts are attention whores. Case closed.
    I only cannot figure out what type of attention whore LSEs are, because they generally seem too put together? "Justifying their conservative values as modern"-attention whores, possibly?



    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Natal Intensive Care Unit. Preme baby=Premature Baby. One of my own relations had such a birth. Poor thing was confined to a plastic box for three months outside the womb with all kinds of tubes stuck into his form. His parents are wonderful far as I can tell, but like I said, you can't undo how our brains work in a mechanical sense.

    Well, I think it was three months. Point is he was barely viable when he was born and the box was his world up until he had finally become fully viable as a nine-month old baby (if we count from the moment of fertilization).
    This is very recognizable, as my Sister had been born weeks too early and was put in an incumbation chamber for that period. For all her life she has been struggling with great shyness, something which she still struggles with to date, but gradually is learning to handle better. Being born from the same Parents, she basically received a similar upbringing as me, but when she did her internship for school at the scouting organization where I had played for years, the staff could not believe that she was truly my Sister, so quiet she was compared to my overly talkative personality. Only when they saw my Mother give her a ride to the scouting building did they recognize that my Sister and I are siblings.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Remember how for Gamma types like me Life is a game?
    My LSE-Si Father lamented this month that he had sold some of his stock a day too early. He needed to liquidate some assets, in order to be able to invest in the house of my Sister. The stocks he sold soared the day after. He consoled himself that he had still raked in some nice profit on them, because he had held onto them for a very long time with them starting out being worth little, but with good potential. When he mentioned the profit that he had missed out on, I quipped: "That's the nature of the game." To which he fervently responded that life is not a game and that finances are a very serious matter. The gist of what I said flew right over his Delta mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Mostly true. After all, you're never too old to start making good decisions. However, I will note that objective reality is, well, objective. While your intrinsic value as a human/sentient being is beyond reproach your perceived value is (perhaps sadly in this example) open to interpretation and that interpretation is actually pretty easy to figure out.

    Remember how for Gamma types like me Life is a game? A game with rules that only idiots fail to learn hard and fast? Yeah, sexual history actually matters and it doubly matters for women. "Can't turn a Ho into a Housewife" resonates for even non-Gamma types for a good reason. If she has 7 kids by 6 different fathers what are the odds you won't be the reason she has 8 kids by 7 different fathers?

    Kids I will note you probably aren't even trying to get close to emotionally. Big idea for anyone dating a "single mother" (or father) that you actually want to wife/husband up earnestly and honestly. If you must be "Captain Save a Ho/rake" than know this. The fastest way into the pants and ultimately heart of a woman/man with children they know is theirs is to try to heal their own children's attachment issues.

    You are, by necessity, crushing the innate dreams of the child. After all, what they innately want is for their true mommy and daddy to make up and get back together. If you wed her and become their step-father/mother you have, in point of fact, crushed their most wholly wished for and most innocent of dreams.

    However, there is something else I and most other ILI's will harp on. If you gotta do something "wrong", do it right. You are not their biological dad/mom. Yeah, damn right I'm not. Guess what, that doesn't matter to me because I can still be an amazing uncle or something else like that. I cannot "replace" your dad/mom, but I can still be an awesome figure in your life. You need a hug? I'll give ya one. Why? Because I wanna make you as happy as I can. I actually do love you faults and all! And I'm willing to prove it to you.

    I sadly regret to report that such thinking isn't encouraged in modern society...
    I counter your argument with an example. An IEE Friend of mine has three different children with three different fathers. Her first two relationships didn't work out, but the last one did. From what I could tell, he was an introverted secondary Te personality who worked as a neurosurgeon. Based on his profession, I presume him to have been an ILI instead of a SLI, but I'm not certain. He fully put his back into being there for his step-Children and Wife. The Children grew up with their Mother, but she also maintained some contact with their biological fathers for them. In times of trouble, however, they turned to their step-Father. He was there 24/7 as the Children grew up with their Mother and he maintained a cool problem solving head, whenever their Mom became a stressed out chaotic mess when problems arise. He not only calmed the Children, he also calmed her. He even doubted conceiving a Child with his Wife, because he feared that might change his interaction with his step-Children, but it did not. He still loved them fully and they him. For decades they were happy together, until he got a stroke and was submitted to the very neurosurgery room he so often operated in. My Friend put it well on the graduation party of their Daughter, if not for that stroke, their love would have lasted for life. She hasn't had a relationship thereafter.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    This post exemplifies HP cognition really well.
    Why, what characterizes holographic-projecting (H-P) cognition?



    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    His boyfriend is LSE and I tend to notice similarities between SEE and LSE.
    What similarities do you observe between SEEs and LSEs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    More importantly, these guys are people I really get on with, and I feel lucky to share fun experiences with them.
    I'm happy for you.



    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    When you think about it, trading sex for money, or providing a mother with a good home and a father with good children, is something that we all do to various degrees. Only the terms of the exchange differ from one case to another. Only the details matter, and they should only matter to the people involved.
    I offer you an inversion of your theory in which the wife is the earner and the husband the childraiser. One of my three Best Friends is a LSI-Se who has agreed with his girlfriend that he will be the stay home part-timing Father to their Children, while she works. They have been together for 10 years now since high school and next year they will wed. He is currently unemployed, because sports psychology at university level is not a frequently requested degree for vacancies, because it makes him simultaneously overqualified, while lacking any practical experience that he would have gotten at university of applied sciences or vocational education. She, on the other hand, will soon graduate for her medical study and also obtain her biopharmacology degree. She will specialize into psychiatry and will earn more, regardless of what he does.

    Since he invited me to their wedding next year, he and I have discussed his shared future with her at length. His unemployment played a pivotal role in this and in the end we concluded that he rather would like to go back to university to train himself to become a clinical psychologist intead, which he is interested into as much as in sports psychology, is more job secure, and he can work in it part-time once he starts taking care of their future Children. Since she is still studying full-time, in order to become a psychiatrist, but they are living together and thus have to pay the rent, he currently works in hospital to provide the staff and elderly patients food. It is an understimulating job for which he has to travel a lot. With the current gasoline prices, due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, he barely retains any money after paying their rent and food. I recommended him to get himself a loan with his rich Parents to pay the rent, food, and his tuition fee for that one and a half years, after which he can start paying them back gradually. By then she will probably earn enough to pay the living costs and possibly any mortgage payments too.

    Knowing him, I subtly asked her some questions about her study plans and introduced her to the topic that he wants to eventually retrain himself into clinical psychology from there on he could handle the conversation himself. She has been very supportive and it actually relieved her that he now has a plan, because she worries a lot about the future, while he remains stoicly calm and essentially ignores any future threats. After he had finally been accepted to a job interview, but still got rejected, because of his overqualification and lack of working experience in the field, she encouraged him to start with the retraining this year already. I would not be surprised if she is his EIE-Ni dual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    In my experience, Duals are hard to meet because their interests are so different from ours, but they don't step on our toes (because there is no competition between people who specialize in opposite areas). So they can be really easy to get along with, in almost every area.
    Yes, duals are hard to meet. Sometimes I even wonder if ESIs use dating applications, because most of my ESI friends find them inauthentic, they are too self-conscious to make a profile about themselves that sells short who they are and what they stand for, and are too unsure of their looks to make photographs of themselves or let photographs be taken of them, despite them already looking stellarwith minimal effort in their daily wear.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    I should’ve known he was overly judgmental when he ranted about disliking atheists… and weebs… and left-leaning people… and people who go to the wilderness to hang out with others rather than to enjoy the solitude of nature… and Californians… and professors… and stereotypical bookworms… and the list goes on and on. I guess I *did* realize. I even said at one point “if you’re this judgmental, it’s only gonna be a matter of time before you want to rant about *me.*” He denied that he would, but I was right in hindsight.


    Good riddance! You deserve better! He surely wasn't worth you! You're better off without him. Honestly, it might sting now, but it's better than getting all hung up over someone who you perceive to be your dual and love, due to the rose coloured glasses of infatuation, I know from experience. You deserve someone kind and understanding. Also, I have read quite some posts from you by now and I don't think that you're crazy at all and I'm trained to sniff out crazy as a psychologist.
    I think that you as a person are deep and interesting. But your daily activities might be a bit bland and could use some spicing up perhaps? Undertaking some novel hobbies would be nice to begin with. If you have an IEE friend, what would work for sure is teaming up with them, because they are the antithesis of blandness. As they are your mirror, they share similar values and oftentimes intuitively know your boundaries, because they have the same. Mirror friendships make for nice synergies, is my experience. Go hang out with a nice IEE friend and liven up your life a bit to the extent that you're comfortable with. Perhaps in the process of getting you out there more, the IEE friend might accidentally introduce you to a nice LSE acquintance of theirs. They are socializers and fellow Deltas, and as we know, birds of a feather flock together. I think that it might be worth giving a try.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    You are not those things he said about you- he just wants to feel like the conversation is worthwhile for him and that he has ‘taught’ you something. It’s immaturity or idiocy if he can’t empathise with your viewpoint.
    I totally agree with you that that guy was a completely immature jerk, but I don't get the impression that he wanted to "teach" Dreymagine his viewpoint, because he couldn't empathize with hers. Instead I think that he took out his frustration on Dreymagine for not living up to his impossible ideals. The fact that he mentions "all those other girls who he deems boring" shows a problem with him, because he rapidly rejects women in series, as none live up to his too high standards. Instead of adjusting his standards he takes the frustration of his repeated failures out onto the women he dates. He failed and will continue failing to court women, because by blaming others for his mistakes he will never learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I had a lot of empathy for this person but we had significant communication problems. I think we were too similar in a way-he was quiet and anxious and softly spoken.
    What characterized him as an SLE, though?



    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I feel like it's hard to pick someone I like if I know their type. Like I find them attractive, might think they are cool, but if I know their type I start thinking of how the ITR will play out instead of just seeing for myself. It's harder to allow myself to like someone I actually like if I know their type.
    For me the process works inversely, first I am interested into someone and only then do I investigate their sociotype.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I feel like I like it more when someone likes me for my use of my creative function than my base function. If feels like I earn their attraction, like I'm doing something attractive than passively being attractive to them with something I can't control. Like when someone likes me for my base function sometimes it can feel like I'm a monkey in a zoo, I know they aren't trying to make me feel that way, but it's not something I can control but they seem to like the condition I have, which doesn't give me a sense of pride. I guess I feel a sense of pride when I can actively attract someone with my creative than just be a sort of spectacle or magnet for someone and not know why. Maybe also because I want someone to like me for what I like about myself, which is my Ne, my pride and joy. This is what I feel like I have to offer. While my base function can feel like a trap sometimes.
    Makes me think maybe other people want to be liked for what they take pride in and like about themselves too.
    This makes sense, because our primary function we use automatically and reflexively, whilst our secondary function we use consciously and with some effort. When we do invest effort into using our secondary function we wish the goal to be meaningful and the result to be valued. We therefore take greater pride and joy out of the victories we accomplish with our secondary function than our first, because those successes we achieve solely by using our first function we tend to take for granted.

    Last edited by Armitage; 07-18-2022 at 03:48 PM.

  26. #666

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    Quote Originally Posted by persimmonism View Post
    Why is it harder when you know their type?
    it's also hard because...you know about it and they don't. So you'll be on dates with duals (not even duals you fancy) and you know to be tolerant of them...and I'm not sure the interaction is the best..it's not natural that you know they are your dual. I think I'm too nice to them (although it def happens that I am too relaxed around them and act like a dick- rare but true). I have had some odd (sometimes interesting) experiences with duals (much more odd than my friend who is dating atm and doesn't know how to type people). The good thing about it is that it makes you open to dating duals who may have some potential...but so often they are just really annoying..and it gets boring. Probably just need a break..
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-18-2022 at 05:22 PM.

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    I think that you as a person are deep and interesting. But your daily activities might be a bit bland and could use some spicing up perhaps? Undertaking some novel hobbies would be nice to begin with. If you have an IEE friend, what would work for sure is teaming up with them, because they are the antithesis of blandness. As they are your mirror, they share similar values and oftentimes intuitively know your boundaries, because they have the same. Mirror friendships make for nice synergies, is my experience. Go hang out with a nice IEE friend and liven up your life a bit to the extent that you're comfortable with. Perhaps in the process of getting you out there more, the IEE friend might accidentally introduce you to a nice LSE acquintance of theirs. They are socializers and fellow Deltas, and as we know, birds of a feather flock together. I think that it might be worth giving a try.
    @Armitage

    Hm, my high-school best friend who I've typed as ESE could potentially be IEE. I know those are completely different types lol, but I feel like I get Ne, Fe, Fi, and Si vibes from her—so it's hard for me to decide on her type. She is an ENFP in MBTI, so if that converts directly in this case, then she's an IEE. Plus, I suppose it'd make sense for her to be in the same Quadra as me since we're close and easily relate to one another.

    Teaming up with her isn't gonna be possible though, unfortunately. She's out of town during the school year for college and during the summer she's almost constantly traveling due to either
    visits with her boyfriend & relatives in other states or her job (basically a field-trip supervisor job that flies her out to Washington DC with middle-school classes). Even though school is out, I've only gotten to see her 2 or 3 times so far, which is a bummer. I can tell we're growing distant; things are a bit awkward now, different than they used to be even though we're both trying our best to maintain the friendship.

    But even if she were in town, I'm not sure that hanging out with her would liven up my life much. I enjoy just being with her and talking, but we rarely do anything other than grab a meal at a restaurant or watch shows/movies. No one in my friend group is great at coming up with fun stuff to do.

    My only friend who's usually in town nowadays is the SLI friend that I mentioned before. Her activities are even more bland than mine lol. Works 2 hours/day with her university job and spends the rest of her day in her dorm room playing Sims or shopping for clothes online. Well, I guess she cooks her own meals. I could get her to teach me how to cook lol. That sounds bland to me, though.
    Last edited by Dreymagine; 07-18-2022 at 06:15 PM.

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    A Christian pen-pal dude just brought up kids to me twice in the same letter.


    First, he had been talking about having to pull late nights during his early career as a lawyer (considering that, he's probably quite a bit older than me, which I don't mind as long as he's not trying to flirt), and then he said that the sleep deprivation might be good preparation for having kids someday. Pft. Real smooth, buddy.


    Secondly, we'd been talking about our own real-life names and then he was like, "have you thought about what you'd wanna name your kids someday if you have any?" Lmao.


    Does this indicate that he's feeling interested in me and trying to gauge whether I wanna be a mother? Idk, I think may be reading into this way too much. After all, those were just two sentences in a fairly long letter. Though, I still can’t help but wonder if a lot of the men on this pen-pal app aren't using it as a long-distance dating app or something lol. Maybe I should delete the app... But it’s quite fun, so I think I’ll just modify my settings in order to only receive new friend requests from women.


    I do like him, though. Whereas the other guy was constantly being negative about almost everything/everyone, this guy is very kind and makes a point to look on the bright side of things in his life. Plus, he seems intelligent & interesting, and our religious & political views appear to be in alignment thus far. That being said, I'm not gonna flirt with some random dude from Oregon who could be like my dad’s age for all I know lol. (Unlike the other guy, he has his age hidden from his profile, which is probably telling.) And I mean, I’m not gonna allow myself to develop romantic feelings for someone I haven't met in person, period. I already knew that it was silly to do so, and the pen-pal exchange I spoke of earlier cemented this realization in my brain.

    (Edit: He must have taken that 16Personalities test because his profile includes: "ESTJ-A, if you're into that sort of thing.")

    Last edited by Dreymagine; 07-18-2022 at 08:38 PM. Reason: It's not letting me edit the extra spaces between paragraphs, SO annoying. I give up tho.

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    I was upfront and honest with the LIE girl, told her I'm not the guy she's looking for. I was worried about even sending the message for a while but I pressed send. A while later she thanked me for the heads up and appreciated the honesty and we unmatched. I learned a little lesson in being direct and not being too much into my own feelings about it lol, easier than I thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    A Christian pen-pal dude just brought up kids to me twice in the same letter.


    First, he had been talking about having to pull late nights during his early career as a lawyer (considering that, he's probably quite a bit older than me, which I don't mind as long as he's not trying to flirt), and then he said that the sleep deprivation might be good preparation for having kids someday. Pft. Real smooth, buddy.


    Secondly, we'd been talking about our own real-life names and then he was like, "have you thought about what you'd wanna name your kids someday if you have any?" Lmao.


    Does this indicate that he's feeling interested in me and trying to gauge whether I wanna be a mother? Idk, I think may be reading into this way too much. After all, those were just two sentences in a fairly long letter. Though, I still can’t help but wonder if a lot of the men on this pen-pal app aren't using it as a long-distance dating app or something lol. Maybe I should delete the app... But it’s quite fun, so I think I’ll just modify my settings in order to only receive new friend requests from women.


    I do like him, though. Whereas the other guy was constantly being negative about almost everything/everyone, this guy is very kind and makes a point to look on the bright side of things in his life. Plus, he seems intelligent & interesting, and our religious & political views appear to be in alignment thus far. That being said, I'm not gonna flirt with some random dude from Oregon who could be like my dad’s age for all I know lol. (Unlike the other guy, he has his age hidden from his profile, which is probably telling.) And I mean, I’m not gonna allow myself to develop romantic feelings for someone I haven't met in person, period. I already knew that it was silly to do so, and the pen-pal exchange I spoke of earlier cemented this realization in my brain.

    (Edit: He must have taken that 16Personalities test because his profile includes: "ESTJ-A, if you're into that sort of thing.")

    I see no other reason why a guy would use an app like that.

  31. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    A Christian pen-pal dude just brought up kids to me twice in the same letter.


    First, he had been talking about having to pull late nights during his early career as a lawyer (considering that, he's probably quite a bit older than me, which I don't mind as long as he's not trying to flirt), and then he said that the sleep deprivation might be good preparation for having kids someday. Pft. Real smooth, buddy.


    Secondly, we'd been talking about our own real-life names and then he was like, "have you thought about what you'd wanna name your kids someday if you have any?" Lmao.


    Does this indicate that he's feeling interested in me and trying to gauge whether I wanna be a mother? Idk, I think may be reading into this way too much. After all, those were just two sentences in a fairly long letter. Though, I still can’t help but wonder if a lot of the men on this pen-pal app aren't using it as a long-distance dating app or something lol. Maybe I should delete the app... But it’s quite fun, so I think I’ll just modify my settings in order to only receive new friend requests from women.


    I do like him, though. Whereas the other guy was constantly being negative about almost everything/everyone, this guy is very kind and makes a point to look on the bright side of things in his life. Plus, he seems intelligent & interesting, and our religious & political views appear to be in alignment thus far. That being said, I'm not gonna flirt with some random dude from Oregon who could be like my dad’s age for all I know lol. (Unlike the other guy, he has his age hidden from his profile, which is probably telling.) And I mean, I’m not gonna allow myself to develop romantic feelings for someone I haven't met in person, period. I already knew that it was silly to do so, and the pen-pal exchange I spoke of earlier cemented this realization in my brain.

    (Edit: He must have taken that 16Personalities test because his profile includes: "ESTJ-A, if you're into that sort of thing.")

    <Does a Cruella de Vil swirl of his arms.>
    Dreymagine, darling, I already figured out that he is a LSE/ESTJ the moment that you told me that he's a lawyer, brags about how hard he works, and tries to subtly express that he wants to settle down and have children, but is actually tactlessly blunt about it. I needed no MBTI typing for that.

    On the bully I have too little information to come to a conclusion, but he actually feels more like a dissatisfied and grumpy LSI to me, given how he tends to categorize (Ti) everybody who he meets based on his religious values, shared interest in his hobbies, and his conservatism. He exhibits a categorizing system with his internal world as the focal point, which would imply introverted thinking. Moreover, his entire negativity about everyone and everything reminds me of a LSI truck driver who I broke off contact with, because all he did was categorize people into groups that he could complain about, while in reality he was simply dissatisfied with his life. Then again, he had no desire to change his behaviour, so he perpetuated in this manner his loneliness by being so rude, including to me. But I am able to rebuke their TiSe attacks with some sharp TeSe counter-offences, whereas for you Se is your point of least resistance (PolR), so it hits hard.
    Also, I have yet to meet a Delta thinker who would be put off by someone being boring, because they themselves generally life very very bland and unimaginative lives.
    Last edited by Armitage; 07-19-2022 at 08:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I see no other reason why a guy would use an app like that.
    Well, in his profile he states that he downloaded the app just because he likes to meet new people and learn about different places/people. That doesn't make it sound like he's on the app just to make romantic connections, but maybe that is his true intent and he's trying to be subtle about it or something?

    (Edit: Also, I've had a a gay guy and a happily married guy send me letters as well—so some guys on there do genuinely just want to have friendly conversations.)
    Last edited by Dreymagine; 07-18-2022 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    <Does a Cruella de Vil swirl of his arms.>
    Darling, I already figured out that he is a LSE/ESTJ the moment that you told me that he's a lawyer, brags about how hard he works, and tries to subtly express that he wants to settle down and have children, but who is actually tactlessly blunt about it. I needed no MBTI typing for that.
    LOL yeah it is pretty obvious, isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I see no other reason why a guy would use an app like that.
    i know a female LSE that ended up with too few friends tho shes young. LSE classmate talked to everyone but it seemed he struggled to really connect to anyone. my LSE father and grandmother seem to be in the same boat. other LSEs ive seen who had a community had something super niche that particular ppl were interested in but even then its like they come and go. they feel used to serve others and left out.
    dating may likely be this guy's thing but it may not be the only thing
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better I’d help you
    if I was better you’d be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.


  35. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    LOL yeah it is pretty obvious, isn't it?
    Yup, the lawyer was obvious to figure out being your dual. Even if he might not be your age, he might turn out to be a kind pen pal or at the very least a good learning experience to figure out where all those LSEs are hiding (hint: churches, fishing pools, libraries, allotment gardens, cycling clubs, and offices).

    With the bully I got an intuition of him being a Beta LSI, but it took me more time to analyse the logical reasons as to why, which I now have included into the same post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    Well, in his profile he states that he downloaded the app just because he likes to meet new people and learn about different places/people. That doesn't make it sound like he's on the app just to make romantic connections, but maybe that is his true intent and he's trying to be subtle about it or something?
    Subtle like a bull in a China shop: "have you thought about what you'd wanna name your kids someday if you have any?"
    Te-users really don't do subtlety. We do business talk, not subtlety, because that's instead what Fe-users do. We are rather blunt.
    Just look at Adam and me for instance, we aren't really the shining examples of subtlety. We are exact, precise, and correct, but everything but subtle. We are far too direct for that. We also pride ourselves in our honesty as a moral principle.
    Also, whenever we feel something, we feel strongly about it and despite our Te's best efforts to keep a cool appearance, our feelings will seep through. At least they do so enough for a discerning Fi-user to notice.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I see no other reason why a guy would use an app like that.
    And I see no reason why a gay guy would use an app like that, but apparently they do for some reason beyond me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    Also, I've had a a gay guy and a happily married guy send me letters as well
    Last edited by Armitage; 07-18-2022 at 09:48 PM.

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    I went out on a date with an ESI today. Another ESI date that was supposed to be just lunch but instead lasted eight hours. This keeps happening to me. It seems to happen only with ESIs, though.

    We had lunch and walked through a park. She has the excellent taste in clothes that most ESIs have. She seemed pretty comfortable around me. She told me that the guy she had been seeing liked to walk too close to her. He also wanted to know too much about her, which she did not like. Me, I was just out for a nice lunch and some exercise in -hopefully- pleasant company.

    She said that I tipped the waitress too much. I told her that the waitress was living on tips, because they usually aren't even paid minimum wage. She said "I guess if you earn a lot, you can spend a lot." It was a flat statement, but it sounded like a criticism.

    Later, as I was getting ready to drive home, she said that she's lower middle class, and then just stared at me. After a minute, I told her I might be upper middle class. I thanked her for a great day and kissed her. She didn't object, but she was watching me kiss her.

    I've never had a woman tell me that before. It was a strange thing to bring up.

    I liked her, but now I'm wondering if that will be a problem.

    ESI e6 = Doubt, personified.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-19-2022 at 05:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I counter your argument with an example. An IEE Friend of mine has three different children with three different fathers. Her first two relationships didn't work out, but the last one did. From what I could tell, he was an introverted secondary Te personality who worked as a neurosurgeon. Based on his profession, I presume him to have been an ILI instead of a SLI, but I'm not certain. He fully put his back into being there for his step-Children and Wife. The Children grew up with their Mother, but she also maintained some contact with their biological fathers for them. In times of trouble, however, they turned to their step-Father. He was there 24/7 as the Children grew up with their Mother and he maintained a cool problem solving head, whenever their Mom became a stressed out chaotic mess when problems arise. He not only calmed the Children, he also calmed her. He even doubted conceiving a Child with his Wife, because he feared that might change his interaction with his step-Children, but it did not. He still loved them fully and they him. For decades they were happy together, until he got a stroke and was submitted to the very neurosurgery room he so often operated in. My Friend put it well on the graduation party of their Daughter, if not for that stroke, their love would have lasted for life. She hasn't had a relationship thereafter.
    I can further counter you by simply stating my previous points. Points I'm also pretty damn sure I've made elsewhere. A healthy/secure "Step-Father" can become a better version of a father than the original and almost certainly broken/lost father. I mean fuck, I've spelled out repeatedly that if you wanna get in with a mother in any way your first and best bet is making her children happy. Make the baby coo joyfully as you bounce them in your lap. Hold them gently as you would an actual treasure for no other reason than they are...

    Like I've said elsewhere, it's never too late to finally start making good decisions. It's more difficult for a single mother to find a wonderful, secure, and loving partner, but it ain't ever truly impossible. Hell, I'm Catholic and when I say that no sin is beyond God's mercy to forgive I mean it. It requires true repentance yes but so long as ya do that you are well and truly forgiven. You may not believe you are worthy of such mercy, but the infinite does and that's what matters.

    I'd argue it was because this man was... Ok now I'm a bit confused. The Step-Father ILI was the one they turned to in times of crisis despite knowing he wasn't their true father right? This is a rather important datapoint for me so please tell me you have it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I went out on a date with an ESI today. Another ESI date that was supposed to be just lunch but instead lasted eight hours. This keeps happening to me. It seems to happen only with ESIs, though.

    We had lunch and walked through a park. She has the excellent taste in clothes that most ESIs have. She seemed pretty comfortable around me. She told me that the guy she had been seeing liked to walk too close to her. He also wanted to know too much about her, which she did not like. Me, I was just out for a nice lunch and some exercise in -hopefully- pleasant company.

    She said that she's lower middle class, and then just stared at me. After a minute, I told her I might be upper middle class.

    I've never had a woman tell me that before. It was a strange thing to bring up.

    I liked her, but now I'm wondering if that will be a problem.
    Whether or not you are "upper" or "lower" middle class is immaterial. What will truly matter is how you're going to approach future relationship goals.

    I'd also ask you to provide her version of events that lead her to believe her potential paramour "wanted to know too much about her" as she put it.

    Yes this ties into attachment theory and I am yet again wanting to see how right I'm getting it. Again, my ultimate theory/assertion remains and I'm still trying to prove Leo Tolstoy as an idiot on this front. Brilliant writer and all, but still missed something patently obvious to the likes of me!

    Sin makes you stupid. Unhappiness springs from sin. Dumb everyone down enough and they are all but mere moist robots with easily manipulatable algorithms and the like. I could go on but I'm pretty sure I've laid out the major problem for most of us. So much unhappiness can and is directly linkable to how and why the world is so fucked up.

    Because, unlike Tolstoy's assertion, it is unhappy people who are all the friggin' same. Not the happy ones...

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Whether or not you are "upper" or "lower" middle class is immaterial. What will truly matter is how you're going to approach future relationship goals.

    I'd also ask you to provide her version of events that lead her to believe her potential paramour "wanted to know too much about her" as she put it.

    Yes this ties into attachment theory and I am yet again wanting to see how right I'm getting it. Again, my ultimate theory/assertion remains and I'm still trying to prove Leo Tolstoy as an idiot on this front. Brilliant writer and all, but still missed something patently obvious to the likes of me!

    Sin makes you stupid. Unhappiness springs from sin. Dumb everyone down enough and they are all but mere moist robots with easily manipulatable algorithms and the like. I could go on but I'm pretty sure I've laid out the major problem for most of us. So much unhappiness can and is directly linkable to how and why the world is so fucked up.

    Because, unlike Tolstoy's assertion, it is unhappy people who are all the friggin' same. Not the happy ones...
    @End, I think he liked her more than she liked him. At least, that's the impression I got. I also think that he didn't like her the way she wanted to be liked. According to her, he was just looking for an attractive GF because he posted a lot of pictures of her on Facebook and bragged about her to his friends, while she's looking for someone to build a future with.

    She's just really suspicious of people, but she probably has reason to be. She said that a neighbor kid told her that he'd cut her lawn for free, and then sent a dick pic to her phone. She laughed and said to me "It was my first dick pic. I showed it to the women I work with." So she's got that Aggressor Se, and she said the kid was harmless. I told her that she wasn't going to get one of those from me, and she laughed again and said that was all right.

    I think that happens to a lot of women, especially if they are attractive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I was upfront and honest with the LIE girl, told her I'm not the guy she's looking for. I was worried about even sending the message for a while but I pressed send. A while later she thanked me for the heads up and appreciated the honesty and we unmatched. I learned a little lesson in being direct and not being too much into my own feelings about it lol, easier than I thought.
    Naturally, because you're doing both her and yourself a favour by being upfront about your (lack of) feelings for her. As LIEs we have many ambitions and a lot to do in life, including helping others solve their problems, hence we are ever struggling to muster enough time to do everything that we feel we need to do. Dating we find especially hard, because as inferior Fi appreciators, we are almost completely naive as to if someone actually like likes us. I can tell easily if someone wants to hang out and be friends, but I am utterly clueless as to if someone would actually be interested into me romantically. Of course, in my case it's compounded by being gay and it's a game of roulette with an 1:19 odds ratio of them being gay to find out if I even have a chance of them like liking me. I thus do the statistically prudent thing and presume that every individual I meet is straight, unless they explicitly tell me otherwise.
    The last time that I trusted my Ni to figure out if someone was gay, I thought that he was for writing "top" as his WhatsApp profile status, but it turned out to refer to the Deutsche/Dutch meaning of "great" instead of the sexual position. I did get a really good Friend out of approaching him, though.

    I thus completely rely on dating applications for dates, which leave much to desire. After the whole drama with that last date, I have uninstalled them all and just focus on myself for the time being. After I finished my psychology bachelor I joined a Gym and have been going there increasingly, in order to just clear my head and work on myself. It's the only activity that I undertake purely for myself.

    I'm restructuring my life to focus more on the quality of my friendships and family relations and to sort out which ones really matter to me (Fi). Previously I also maintained a decent quality of contact with everyone, but I did not spend especially a lot of time with anyone in particular, hence the degree of closeness always left something to be desired. In addition, I frequently was short on time for my own projects and deadlines, because I have ever been so budy helping others. Presently I'm pruning my relations with only three close Friends who I plan to see about weekly, and my Grandma, my old Neighbours, who are like Family to me, and a Family Friend monthly. Everyone else I am clustering many people into larger groups, such as my high school friends, my psychology and statistics friends, because in the group discussions we discuss the same topics as individually, unlike with my closest Friends. These groups I plan on seeing every quarter after my exams and before the start of the next study block. Everyone else I would only see during the Christmas or summer vacation from now on.

    I also unsubscribed from my political party and political youth party, because with my statistics master I already didn't have time to be active with them last academic year and neither shall I this upcoming year. I remain a member of the youth North Atlantic treaty organization (NATO) club and my psychology study association, because with them I can attend individual lectures whenever they interest and suit me, whilst with the political parties I had to commit to a biweekly schedule and work on projects in between the meetings.



    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I went out on a date with an ESI today. Another ESI date that was supposed to be just lunch but instead lasted eight hours. This keeps happening to me. It seems to happen only with ESIs, though.
    Hahaha, and even when you wrap things up after a long day and say your goodbyes to each other, do you also already look out for the next occassion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    We had lunch and walked through a park. She has the excellent taste in clothes that most ESIs have.
    They make it look effortless, because even in their daily outfit they look stellar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    She said that I tipped the waitress too much. I told her that the waitress was living on tips, because they usually aren't even paid minimum wage.
    America is going to crash and burn like the dying dinosaur that it is, due to this increasing exploitation. One day the people will revolt, but they will be harshly beaten down again by the corrupted police forces, military, and judicial system, in order to reassert the status quo of the rich getting richer. I would not be surprised that at that point Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, and Jeff Bezos would be making a small fortune on the civil war, similar as to how they did during the COVID-19 pandemic. This time they would be selling police and military drones to the political-military-industrial complex for the civil war that they themselves have to be protected from. America has been so thoroughly corrupted that small scale insurgencies will continue to erupt like chronic inflammation. We have already seen this pattern being established with the black lives matter movement clashing with the white supremacists and with the Capitol Riot. But no-one will be able to topple over the current regime and thus no actual change will be achieved, unlike during the previous American Civil War or the French Revolution. Odds are that this next American Civil War may end like the Arabic Spring.

    Global Warming will only quicken the pace of impoverishment of the American people, hence I expect our worst nightmares about the collapse of the American hegemony to have been fully realized in ten to twenty years, and sooner if Trump gets re-elected or one of his offspring is elected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    She said "I guess if you earn a lot, you can spend a lot." It was a flat statement, but it sounded like a criticism.
    It's not criticism, it's envy. What's her profession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Later, as I was getting ready to drive home, she said that she's lower middle class, and then just stared at me. After a minute, I told her I might be upper middle class. I thanked her for a great day and kissed her. She didn't object, but she was watching me kiss her.

    I've never had a woman tell me that before. It was a strange thing to bring up.

    I liked her, but now I'm wondering if that will be a problem.

    ESI e6 = Doubt, personified.
    She has a marked financial inferiority complex. She feels insecure about her income compared to yours, similar as to how your ESI e6 gardener felt inferior to you when you told your income to her. This is the very reason why discussing money is taboo in the Netherlands.
    You will have to discuss her financial inferiority complex in a subtle manner on your third date or later, if you want to make this work. Explain to her what values and characteristics are important to you for a lover and that income is not your concern, but if someone is willing to put in the hard work.



    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I'd argue it was because this man was... Ok now I'm a bit confused. The Step-Father ILI was the one they turned to in times of crisis despite knowing he wasn't their true father right? This is a rather important datapoint for me so please tell me you have it...
    Yes, he was both his Children and his Wife tower of strength, because he retained his cool and solved the problem, whilst their Mother went into panic mode and their biological fathers were generally unavailable. They were aware that he was not their biological father, because the Children retained occassional contact with their biological fathers, because their Mother deemed this important.
    Last edited by Armitage; 07-19-2022 at 10:02 AM.

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