We've only met once, so I don't want to suggest another date and then tell her. Better to write her I think. I don't want to waste her time. Or I could just ghost her? I won't mention Socionics, because I feel the incompatibility anyway. It's just that Socionics makes me more sensitive to it and I can conceptualize it better. It feels strange, because I am in a way attracted to her. It gets harder when a woman is nice.Originally Posted by Adam Strange
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Don't ghost her, because it's upsetting to be ignored like that. Just be honest that you feel incompatible, it's the honourable thing to do.
What @Armitage said.
Lol. Wait until you meet that woman who is soooo easy to get along with, who is endlessly brilliant and fresh, and who is fantastic in bed. I'm talking about your Semi-Dual.
Try to pass that one up because she's not a Dual.
Dating is way hard.
@Tallmo it sounds like it was a nice time so it might be nice to be civil rather than ghost. However, sometimes ghosting feels appropriate. Either way she is probably aware you had a nice time and will come to her own conclusions about why it’s not to be. I think saying you didn’t think you seemed compatible is fine. The SLI I met recently is a little odd and I felt weird about seeing him again too- but he lives far away so it’s unrealistic anyway. I’ve met other SLIs in the past I’ve felt more comfortable with..I still think he’s a maybe..who knows when I’ll meet someone else. Well, I am hoping to meet up with a cute semi-dual soon. It’s funny though I do think of the SLI a bit, he slowly grew on me after one quick kinda strange date. Probs a bit too strange. Feels a bit weird to talk about it lol.
How do you feel about semi-dual or illusionary if you don’t mind me asking? Do you prefer activity/identical?
Sometimes I imagine being with a semi-dual, wondering if they’d leave me one day. However I don’t know if I’m exactly scared of being alone when I’m old..most important thing is to have a long happy relationship before then
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 12-20-2021 at 09:50 PM.
Maybe. To me it feels like I'm writing her a "review" of out date. It feels cynical. "It was nice, but....". I totally understand ghosting, and I feel it is sometimes more appropriate than writing a "review". The contrast is also weird, because we didn't talk about anything like this when we met. We had a positive atmosphere (at least we tried). And we liked each other.
Just recently I met an LSI on Tinder and after our first date she simply removed me from her contacts. I'm ok with that and it was obvious that we were not a good match.
You seem to like superego? There is a feeling of familiarity in the beginning. But it is impossible to get close imo. Some disappointment comes fast.The SLI I met recently is a little odd and I felt weird about seeing him again too- but he lives far away so it’s unrealistic anyway. I’ve met other SLIs in the past I’ve felt more comfortable with..I still think he’s a maybe..who knows when I’ll meet someone else. Well, I am hoping to meet up with a cute semi-dual soon. It’s funny though I do think of the SLI a bit, he slowly grew on me after one quick kinda strange date. Probs a bit too strange. Feels a bit weird to talk about it lol.
Illusionary (SLE) has dual-like vibes, but it never gets there. I'm occasionally seeing a SLE from Tinder at the moment, we are just getting to know each other. I've told her I have doubts about our compatibility.How do you feel about semi-dual or illusionary if you don’t mind me asking? Do you prefer activity/identical?
Semidual is pretty good imo. I could see myself settling with one. Yes, I think Activity or Identical is even better.
Duality is weird in a way. Your opposite who doesn't really understand you, never connect with you, it only seems so. Not saying I could resist it.
If I was IEI I would probably just go for one of those nice LSIs. And LSI is everywhere so it should be easy. And live happily ever after in Activation.Sometimes I imagine being with a semi-dual, wondering if they’d leave me one day. However I don’t know if I’m exactly scared of being alone when I’m old..most important thing is to have a long happy relationship before then
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
yeah I see what you mean..it depends how honest you're willing to be. But saying that you had some connection but it's not the connection you're looking for (in your own words) could be an option. It's hard though, I'm not judging if you don't. I think it's brave even going on the date in the first place....
I do think they are one of the better matches, yes. For me atm I think I'm most interested in semi-dual, then maybe superego. If a dual came along (I don't think it's likely for me), it would be more a toss between dual and semi-dual. I think because I haven't had a relationship before, I like the idea of the intimacy of semi-dual or superego. I can sort of see what you mean about not getting close with them but I think there's different types of closeness. In some ways is there not more closeness with a superego partner than dual? Because you're both introverts/ extroverts, you get each other on that level. I can see what you mean though, it might feel less close than other ITR, however not necessarily less intimate..
I've only had one date with an ILE and I've been attracted to a couple. I could see myself with one but I think I might prefer an SLI. I don't know..ILE feels more like a friend? Could be really nice though..I also have a cute ILI friend...I think those types seem similar in level of attractiveness.
Hm so I had one date with an LSI a couple of years ago now. He was ok, could have been ok together. He said we could go to Burning Man haha. But I dunno I think activity partners can be a bit too dependent on each other and also bicker too much. Something in me says 'no'. I do not want conflict and I do want freedom. I'm not convinced they can actually help me with much either. Could they advise me on being creative or inspire me to feel creative? I think their brains are inspired differently to mine..actually I think of them as my evil twinI did have a great convo with an LSI at work recently. I trusted him enough to tell him all about my romantic trouble with my other colleague and he very easily bounced off of me and put all my years of pain into words for me, very simply, elegantly and in detail. A summary I couldn't write myself. So yes, I can imagine the connection that can develop.
Of course some LSIs/IEIs may be better than some SEEs but we all know that finding a good version of a type is essential. Also, good health, timing etc.
Haha yes duality would be hard to resist. It sounds good but I do think there are several types/ people that I'd be happy with..I don't think I'd be pining for duality or anything. I am kinda curious to ask friends/ acquaintances about their dual relationships, at some point. I can't work out if they seem happier than other people or not.
Which brings me back to SLI. This week I spent time chilling with both female SLE and SLI colleagues. I love being around both. The SLE made me want to read and draw a whole bunch more and the SLI invited me ice skating and I dunno, she has this quality about her, so in touch with her surroundings, makes me think of the tangible world more and want to be more connected to it.
edit:
I was just thinking about friends in dual couples..and maybe I am a bit wary around them..do they need me as much as I need them haha. My young ILE friend is with an SEI though and actually it makes me feel safer with him. No weirdness coz he's relationship is quite secure I guess, also he knows how to handle my IPness.
Ok last thing..
So I matched with another cute SLI, very cute. But he seems a bit boring, also like he has his guard up. See that I'm not into..however it could change lol.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 12-21-2021 at 10:17 PM.
Hi Bethany, you can also go the old fashioned way; if your reliable LSI coworker is single and looks nice enough, perhaps ask him out for an activity.
If it doesn't work out, you can always play it like it was just something that you wanted to do as friends. You already feel comfortable enough around him to open up to him, so you could just as well give it a shot, I would think. Going on dates is a numbers game after all, just like in a lottery the more tickets you buy the higher your chances of obtaining the jackpot. Whatever you choose to do, I wish you bonne chance!
@Armitage good morning and thank youhe ain’t single, but he’s a lovely, moody person to chat to at times
‘Dating is a numbers game’ is my IEE friends motto. I just wish dating apps were better designed and had better filters :s but yeah a new interesting person seems to pop up eventually. If not, I’ll do as you say and start looking around elsewhere. You have to see it as a bit of a game/lottery to make it a bit more fun. I do need more fun
I can see the romantic appeal of activity btw, I think it can become a little romantic bubble..
And good afternoon to you, Bethany! Yes, activity partners can be very fun to hang out with. You could always hold your coworker as your archetype to compare other people to who you come across. Maybe he'd even be willing to wingman you at events he likes, that way you sure would get to know more single LSIs and SLEs in meatspace.
In that case it might be best to invite a third coworker, in order for you not to look taken and him not to get the impression that you're trying to poach him away from his partner.
Well, by that correlate I now shall have to change my type to IEE then.On a serious note, your friend is definitely right.
My programmer's hands are now itching to code, I better get going while the inspiration is fresh.Ciao!
Last edited by Armitage; 12-22-2021 at 01:29 PM.
I’m working with a female ESI-Se and while we’re not dating, an honest confession would be that I wish we were. But, she’s a lesbian and I’m older than her father, so when I’m being realistic, I realize she’s a No-Go. Still, my creative Ni keeps throwing out hidden connections and hidden meanings and I’d be better off if it would stop.
She is ESI, so she’s incredibly wary and incredibly slow to trust. She teaches women’s self defense classes (of course) and I’m sure that she thinks that all men are pigs. In fact, the other day she told me that one of her teachers said that all men are pigs. So she has this defensive attitude against male violence.
So the other day, she stopped by to pick up a check for her work, and as she stepped off the front porch, she turned, got her phone out, and started taking pictures of a little bunny rabbit in my front yard.
My Ni is telling me that that’s significant somehow. I wish it would shut up.
^ @Adam Strange I say go for it.
EII-INFj / INFP / Strong E4 and 9 energy / Melancholic-Phlegmatic / Musical-Intrapersonal-Spatial / Kinky-Sensual
Yeah, don't do that. Hell, the fact that even casually popped into your mind indicates you've got attachment issues. You wanna fuck both of you up even more? Yeah, ghost em'. I assume you don't however so do what @Armitage said. Nut up and just tell em' you feel incompatible with them if that's how you really feel about them and the potential relationship.
Worst case they ghost you for triggering their issues. That means they were likely among the lost and nothing you could have done or said would have helped them. Best case? Well, the honest and mutual sharing of needs. That is, the foundations of an actually healthy and loving relationship!
Also, don't write, meet face to face and commit to whatever decision you come to. Texting your break-up is cowardly in the extreme. For women it's the expression of the worst aspects of femininity. For men it's the ultimate expression of cowardice. Likewise, you reaffirming your intent to court your potential lover in the flesh will go a long way towards convincing them you're not lying. Texts are cheap. Actually showing up and saying things to their face is a genuine risk. You don't have to be a gamma to respect that on a primal level
Oh boy. Glad I'm not on your end. You can still go for it but pining after a girl who starts from the position that "all men are pigs" is the direct equivalent of a girl pining after a man who thinks "all women are shameless unremorseful slutty whores". Not to say these kinds of people don't fuck each other (indeed they do quite often even as I speak), but they aren't exactly poster child's for healthy relationships.
Y'know how I keep harping on about attachment issues? Yeah, this right here is two unhealthy people unironically pining after each other and you, sadly, are one of em'. Now, you might know that, want to fix that, and earnestly and truly believe you can. The question then becomes is she the same? If so than it might work out. If you are and she isn't than you had best continue your search by seeking another example of your dual. It hurts me every time I say it but you/I cannot save everyone. We can only save those we can and we will only meet (and save) them by the grace of God.
Get the last few data points that'll tell you where this is likely to head and then act on it decisively. We cannot save the lost, but they can drag us down and prevent us from saving the souls we actually can if we let them. Don't ONS her. Don't string her along. If she is lost than she is lost. Act accordingly.
There is one little problem, uneven personality type distribution between both genders and the general population. I'm an ILI and I am likewise a very rare type and are weighed more heavily towards males. That is, there are more male ILI's than female ILI's and we're around 1% of the general world population (possibly for the best as we are the stereotypical "villain" type). I could write an essay here but I'll skip right to the point. There literally aren't enough "duals" to go around for any type that cares to search if they give a damn about gender (and yes they do as sexual orientation is a thing). There is a critical shortage of some types and an overabundance of others. This is only exacerbated by the whole gender thing. Thus, most will have to "make do" with a suboptimal/non-dual pairing.
Thankfully, duality isn't the primary determinate factor. Attachment is. An ILI-LSI, SEE-IEI, whatever "good" relationship (or hell, even a conflictor relationship) can and will work so long as the couple is capable of secure attachment. It'll be harder work, but true happiness and contentment is within every healthy person's grasp.
For example, I'd gladly settle for an SLE or LSI if they were willing to try to understand my mistakes from their perspective and I reciprocated in turn. This goes for all relationships really. We will all fuck up. The real question is do we accept that fact and adapt to it or stubbornly refuse to not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
In my experience all my ILI friends are in a way like dogs, and as loyal too. You see those medium to large dogs like Labrador Retrievers and even Danish Dogs? Yeah, that's not them. They wish, but nope, they're like more like Miniature Schnauzers.They're extremely intelligent, but in a fight they're literal underdogs, so what they do is they bark a lot to develop this intimidating presence through which they deter would-be attackers ( Beta ST high-school bullies ). The ubiquitous Alpha SFs then see this behaviour and immediately jump to the conclusion that the ILI must be a bad person, or at least not fun, and they start gossipping that around. But the ILI doesn't care one bit about the Alpha's superficial opinion. Instead the ILI is fly and picks his own friends who accept him for who he is and the ILI in turn accepts his friends for who they are.
ILIs portrayed by Alphas:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...nt-the-villain
ILIs in real life:
https://nl.pinterest.com/pin/269864202651697387/
Post-Scriptum, does anyone know why my picture is showed in the editor, but is displayed merely as a hyperlink once I save the message?
Last edited by Armitage; 12-31-2021 at 09:20 AM.
I'd not recommend it, because of the very reasons that you pointed out yourself, @Adam Strange. At worst you'll lose the entire friendship with your dual over it, at best she'll politely decline you, because she's lesbian. It seems that your Ni is currently slaved to your Fi. It's clear that your Fi deeply wants to date her and makes your Ni search for all kinds of nonexistent hidden meanings as part of confirmation bias.
You might want to consider instead meeting up with a nice SEE to blow off some steam, because I believe that you may need to do this to regain some clarity of mind. I'm concerned that if you don't blow off some steam soon, your Fi will start enslaving your Te next and cause you to make increasingly erratic decisions. I think that it is therefore in your best interest to blow off some steam, Adam.
Last edited by Armitage; 12-26-2021 at 10:10 AM.
"Thankfully, duality isn't the primary determining factor. Attachment is; a LIE-EII, LIE-LSI, or LIE-SEE can and will work as long as the couple is capable of secure attachment. True happiness and joy is within every healthy person's grasp.
The real question is do we accept this fact and adapt to it or stubbornly refuse and make the perfect the enemy of the good?"
Amen, brother, amen.
( I condensed your comment a bit and changed some wordings to make the spirit of your messenge come more to the fore. I hope that you're alright with that? )
Meeting face to face to "break up" is appropriate if there has been some previous dating and we actually knew each other more, but she is just a person I matched with on Tinder, we exchanged a few messages and decided to meet. It would be rude to schedule a date with her again and have her come to some cafe or whatever just to tell her that we are not compatible. Texting a "break up" can be cowardly in some cases, I agree, but you are generalizing too much here. Imo it's perfectly fine if there has just been one date so far. These first dates with people from Tinder are always extremely uncertain and people know that. What about yourself? Do you date, and what have you done previously in similar situations?Yeah, don't do that. Hell, the fact that even casually popped into your mind indicates you've got attachment issues. You wanna fuck both of you up even more? Yeah, ghost em'. I assume you don't however so do what @Armitage said. Nut up and just tell em' you feel incompatible with them if that's how you really feel about them and the potential relationship.
Worst case they ghost you for triggering their issues. That means they were likely among the lost and nothing you could have done or said would have helped them. Best case? Well, the honest and mutual sharing of needs. That is, the foundations of an actually healthy and loving relationship!
Also, don't write, meet face to face and commit to whatever decision you come to. Texting your break-up is cowardly in the extreme. For women it's the expression of the worst aspects of femininity. For men it's the ultimate expression of cowardice. Likewise, you reaffirming your intent to court your potential lover in the flesh will go a long way towards convincing them you're not lying. Texts are cheap. Actually showing up and saying things to their face is a genuine risk. You don't have to be a gamma to respect that on a primal level
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Maybe your Ni is trying to tell you to buy a pet, specifically a bunny.If you actually do, I want to see the cute bunny pictures, LOL.
I Love Bunny. She whirls fluffy cotton spores to pixel splash and dance with me in lunar novelty.
Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ A fair face may fade, but a beautiful soul lasts forever. Lucky Numbers - 53, 10, 29, 14, 1, 21
Mr. Mime = Mastermind
Marius Florin aka LeoSuperCluster as Raging Bolt the Raikou number 1021 and SolitaryWalker brought glory to the years of Silver and forged Pichu, wisdom of force and flair to exhibit dinosaur questing pointers electrocuting cinema and blueprints of emporiums to undertow flows jungle tossing galaxy spanning shivers of essence gems and portals of roads to destruction and arboretums folding castles and swordsmanship of dreams and counters to pleasant vibrations and holy water sprouting evanescent stars and puzzles of grades to saffron climax
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...k-2024-edition
I have the exact same problem as you Armitage. Pics only show as links, but it didn't used to do that.
I can see ILI with SLE ... pretty good as friends, why not partners in life? What contact you have is really good, and disagreements aren't worth much, and leaving you alone for a long time, perfect.
It's cool and likely corresponds with your own experiences. That is, you know of happy couples who are in those types of relationships. They ain't exactly duals, but they are capable of truly secure attachment and have thus bonded to each other in that respect.
I am totally OK with that
Yes, yes, so underrepresented and therefore growing up so different I always felt ... not part of anything. Weird girl. This type is a guy type, which is why I'm a girl and not girly, not a man, just a bleeping ILI that's a girl but just a person. Cause we are minds, the best villains.
I think I’ve only met one female ILI (but know about 11 ILIs) and I dated her for a while. Of all the women I’ve known, I liked the way her mind worked best.
I think that I've known slightly more female ILIs than male, fwtw. I'm surprised others think males are so much more common.
I don't think I've run into any female ILI, definitely LII but not ILI.
Actually I think ILI (and maybe ILE?) is the type that doesn't have clear gender traits. They are T so they don't look soft, but also the weak S make them doesn't look as strong and capable of doing shit like other male. Unvalue weak Si Fe make them look less like a caregiver for a woman. And the Ni lead make them look soft and passive because the detachment from reality.
Last edited by Tarnished; 12-28-2021 at 02:17 AM.
I think that's a common experience for our type regardless of gender. We were/are the "weird" kid. Not that we wanted or ever tried to be, but we just became/were the weird kid just by existing.
Fe-PoLR and Ni-dom is a helluva thing.
x 1,000,000 =
Hi Armitage,
Apologies for the delayed response.
Yes, I think so, our dominant-Te makes us busy doing school duties. First things first.
Well, we live in different states. And he actually WAY older (>15 years, he's in his mid 40s) than me. So I decided not to pursue any further. But we're still good friends, I like him, he's a good guy.
I'm thankful that I can actually like someone like him, an ESI, really. If you ever seen my previous posts, I had a hard time finding an ESI that I really like.
I actually hope it's not just because of the age though. I'm worried the only ESI's I like would be the older ones because they're good and mature enough for a female LIE like me. Ah I'm being arrogant again. Anyway, I never have problems to find dates when I want to, but if I wanna find a dual, I think I should treat it as a project. We'll see.
Oh, and thank you for asking! Yeah I'm not always online.
What about you, have you found your ESI yet? I think it should be easier for an LIE guy to find an ESI girl than the other way around.
Best of luck.
I think age shouldn't really be criteria if you like the person and are both adults, but I suppose, if it matters that much to you, it's better to end it before getting involved.
Hey @Scarlett,
Thanks for the comment. Does our busy Te mean that we're too busy during our adolescence to go dating, or is that our Te keeps us busy, in order to distract us from our still inexperienced Fi, which we need for dating?
Perhaps you should ask him what his hobbies, work, and study were when he was your age? Maybe that'll be your golden tip towards finding more ESIs like him?
Are the younger ESIs you met still rather immature then?
Yeah, being a LIE guy is more conform society's restrictive and outdated gender norms, but dating is nevertheless a challenge. I do meet ESIs regularly, however, as three male and three female friends, as well as my mother are all ESIs and some acquintances are too. It's just that not every ESI I meet I necessarily want to be more than friends with and few seem to be available in the first place. Not often do I encounter ESIs on dating apps. The ones who I do see on those apps differ substantially from the ESIs I meet in real-life, because the ones from the app are rarely looking for love and instead are online for a quick hook-up for the Se fun of it.
Though I have had a few dates with ESIs. My first kiss was with an ESI-Fi who I in the end deemed too feminine for my personal taste. Another simply proved to live too far away to get steady with. With yet another the age difference is too large, thus instead we stay friends like you have done with your ESI. And then there's the ESI I wrote about in this thread. He said he was looking for love, yet way too soon during our dating he started Se-insisting on me lending him money. Multiple times I explained to him why I wouldn't, yet he continued insisting on it. You can see why literally all of my friends discouraged me from keeping any contact with him at all. I even had offered twice to pay for the thing myself, so he could get it, but he instead ignored my idea and had the guts to try pressuring me for money for the fifth time! At that point, I had had it and got angry for him showing more love for my money than for me. He actually teared up during my rant and now he no longer wants to have anything to do with me, because I broke his heart... It saddens me how disastrously this relationship went, because I was completely in love with him, and in hindsight he might have been as well...
The most recent ESI I'm going for a date with is a German guy who I met at my psychology faculty. He's a first year student, whereas I'm a master student. So there's a couple of years difference, but it's neither all too extreme, in my personal opinion. We still have to go out, because the lockdown cancelled our plans and then he returned to Deutschland for the holidays. We have been keeping in touch, regardless. He said that he's sure that we'll figure it out and in a later message he mentioned that he's looking forward to his return to the Netherlands next block.
I feel like he's also saying with this that he's looking forward to meet up again, but I'm too hesitant to trust my Fi. I might simply be reading too much into what he's saying and it all just turns out to be confirmation bias and cherrypicking that I'm subconsciously doing. It wouldn't be the first time that I would be doing that, so I rather keep my feelings in check, instead of letting them run wild.
@EIE, how would one best address this lack of opportunity?
@EIE any advice for Fi-base experiencing lack of opportunity? (early thirties)
I think LIE - ESI relationships is very tough from the beginning. Both are lead by judging function, so they may disagree with each other in many things until they begin to see each other's hidden agenda.
ILI and SEE' problem is different: They don't see each other. Their activities are so different that they usually don't appear in the same place. Even when they are in the same place, they still could ignore each other because "this guy look boring", "this guy seem too much for me". But when they begin to interact with each others, thing would go fluidly than they thought how it could be.
You nailed it!
Pretty much how I'd argue how the two would spell their desires out if asked directly by their partner after being formally wed. Tell em' a story! Well, it'd depend on the gender of the storyteller but both the ILI and the SEE would likely, depending on which side they were on, blush so hard it'd power a fusion reactor...
Either the SEE is regaled by an erotic fable of a highly intelligent yet lowborn knight sworn to a highborn princess or the ILI is dragged along by the hand by an SEE who just assumes her superior position as a matter of fact and/or law of the universe.
Many ways to play with all that however. I mean after all, no true hunter is satisfied with easy prey. No aggressor worthy of the title would settle for a victim who was all to eager to just "give in" as it were
Sounds like you should report him.
Some guys are embarrassingly clueless.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote