I think that people become mean when they see no chance of them getting what they want. Usually because they have no clue about how to get what they want. Or because what they want is not something that anyone wants to give them.Originally Posted by necrosebud
Posting a link to this entertaining and, I think, well-done video (described by NYT as a "wanly comedic tale showing a relationship's near misses") shall be my current contribution to this thread (especially relevant for those in the Millennial generation who may relate based on dating in their 20s...)
Oh, man, oh, man.
This is not just dating in one’s twenties.
Although, maybe I’m just a case of arrested development. After all, I’m sure that my fifty-something ILI economics professor next-door-neighbor didn’t do any of this. He just went on line and looked for women with money and a good job, and now he’s got an LSI university professor from the next town over, running his life.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Post Script:
The couple in the video seem to like each other, but they clearly aren’t all in 100%. I think this might be a common problem.
When I was little, I asked my mother how I’d know I was in love? How would I know that a particular woman was the one for me?
She said, “You’ll just know.”
For many years, I believed that. I even experienced it.
But now, I’m beginning to doubt.
I’m looking for a woman who is better than I am, and who in turn thinks that I’m better than she is.
Lol. Then, we’ll both get a great deal.
I could rephrase this to say that I want a woman who makes me want to be a better man, but it’s almost the same thing.
Or as I'd call it, how dating tends to work out when both people got major attachment issues. Fucking textbook! That video you quoted I mean.
Also, the ILI. There but for the grace of God the Almighty go I. Had I been more materially successful I likely would have ended up the thrall of some LSI/SLE who was even more fucked up and broken than I ever was like they did. I bet he was afavoring variant. Thought he had it all figured out somehow and didn't even consider the possibility he may have fucked up somewhere vital seriously.
Being dirt poor all your life has its upsides. Dirt poor and Catholic compounds that. Luxuries such as "just knowing" you're in love chief among them. No, you won't "just know" somehow. There's a system for this one (and you bet your ass I spent a ton of time on this one as I'll only get one shot at my happy ending and I will not fuck up and fail as a lifeform on this front if you catch my meaning).
Do you love her or merely lust (sinfully) for her? Well, how close are you willing to let her get to you? Can you, would you, reveal to her your idea of a "perfect" relationship if she asked you in good faith? Are you willing to hear and accept hers in turn even if it opposes your own? Say that, in this ultimate revelation, it is revealed you mistyped the object of your affection and it turns out they're your conflictor that just so happened to be in possession of amazing acting skills and was just able to "act" like the person they perceived you wanted them to be as easy as water is wet. But now? Now you asked them to be honest and tell you what they want in the most selfish sense of the term and they dropped that mask and answered honestly. Would you work through that with them or just dump em' on the spot? If you're a broken mess with attachment issues you'd dump em'. If you're healthy psychologically and thus probably already deeply bonded to them intimately, emotionally, and even chemically (Oxytocin and Vasopressin are a hell of a drug) you'd power through. Like I keep saying, attachment is the primary determinant variable in how healthy and happy any relationship is going to be and that goes exponential for romantic ones.
For instance, I can see an ESE finding the fantasy I alluded to above (anego block "victim" knight sworn to an
valuing aggressor princess where both land that happy ending in more ways than one) to be absolutely scandalous and possibly even disgusting! However, if she really wanted to she'd be able to wrap her head around it through great effort. Such would be the story of any conflictor romance but if both sides were healthy and capable of and receptive towards true intimacy it'd still work out in the end. Hell, let's go onto another hypothetical. Say you sired your conflictor. Blood of your blood, seed of thine most certainly. What line from their lips at the end of their life would let you know you did right by them?
I know. They'd say that despite all the rage and frustration our every interaction inspired in them they never doubted for a second the one thing that mattered the most. They knew I loved them unconditionally with the eternal passion of Christ upon the Cross. As Christ loved us all, so I loved them. That's the bottom line. The end goal of any healthy father who has even a scintilla of a notion of what filial duty is and why you do it no matter what anyone else has to say.
You want to know if you love someone? If you cannot or will not truly open up to them and risk the whole relationship for whatever reason you don't love them. If you do, and then actually follow through? Well, now you've got a shot at receiving the love you're so desperate to both give and receive.
Do you believe there's lust which isn't sinful?
If it wasn't obvious I'll spell it out for you. It is not sinful to lust after your lawfully wedded wife/husband! How the hell are you even expected to consummate the marital act of sex if you both don't wanna fuck for as long and hard as you can manage!?
How you'd both rather like to fuck is gonna depend on how you'd rather experience sex but once you are wed by holy matrimony not only does all instances of lustful/impure thought become licit it also becomes your duty to fulfil all licit sexual urges.
Indeed, to refuse your spouse a sexual encounter they are requesting in/from a logical/reasonable standpoint is to be guilty of the mortal sin of spousal neglect! And the bloody protestants/puritans accuse us Catholics of being a bunch of sex-hating prudes. Ignorant fools have no idea!
Hell, my own patron saint had a most famous prayer. Look up Saint Augustine. A doctor of the Church, yet also well acquainted with the deepest depths of degeneracy...
Is it your position that you shouldn't lust for a girl up until the day you marry her?
No. We are all sinners and it is likely you will lust after/have impure thoughts regarding you wife before the holy day of matrimony. Once you're wed, however, all that becomes licit. Indeed, it is to be celebrated. For when you engage in the marital act within the context of matrimony you are as close to God as you could ever be. For through/by that act will new lives be brought into this world. It is the ultimate act of creation, the creation of life!
I am fatigued now sadly. Ideally you wouldn't pursue/indulge in impure thoughts but you're probably going to. Hell, if I met an SEE who dragged me by the hand to her favorite viewpoint of the nearby city I'd be hard pressed to not somehow imagine doing all kinds of impure things to me. Same would go for her if I led her to my most favored pool of contemplation. It would confirm something for them deep down. That they ought to stop beating around the bush and just open up fully and completely to this... this unworthy idiot! Baka! Urusai!
What do you mean, licit? Don't you believe it's always sinful to lust before marriage?
I ask because, personally, I began to question my faith when I began to feel sexual impulses. I wasn't willing to suppress them or believe them to be wrong, and still am not. At the time, whenever I saw a pretty girl I would become very happy and could spend hours thinking about her -- images of how she smiled, or maybe her bare ankle caught my eye, or an impression of her breasts against her shirt. Nothing else has ever captivated me like that. I couldn't believe this was something evil. Or if it was, I realized I didn't have a choice but to accept being evil. My loyalty to myself was stronger than any religious conviction, I guess you could say.
Now that I'm no longer a teenager I've found all my impulses and feelings weaker, but at the same time my mind is also clearer. The sight of a pretty woman doesn't have quite the same hold on me it once did, but it's still fairly strong, and every part of me that isn't quite conscious is fully united in its appreciation for that kind of image. And, consciously, I still haven't discovered a reason I should fight myself on this. Lust appears for me a vital force. I feel most myself when I'm gripped by it. It's not something I can set aside and renounce.
Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 01-23-2022 at 07:45 AM.
I see your view and that of @End as two ways of living, or two world views. They both have different requirements and consequences. If you live like End it is usually wisest to marry soon so not to get too sexually frustrated and distant from what's natural. End's conservative outlook makes sense because it puts the natural instincts under the structure of marriage and God. Above and below in union. On the other hand, sexual promiscuity of a non-believer can be said to be more "pagan" but maybe you ARE pagan and might have the need to live this out and settle in a marriage later. But I won't debate what is more "right" because that depends on the individual, and the stage they're at the moment.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
@FreelancePoliceman, you sound so much like a Medieval monk here, while @End sounds like an itinerant preacher.
Not saying either is bad, just saying.
Sooo much variety on this forum.
For a third view, last summer, I was having sex with a woman who was still married. I guess that puts me squarely in both of your "sinnner" categories. All I can say in my defense is that life can get complicated.
To be clear, I'm not exactly going out and having sex with lots of women right now. And I wouldn't mind marrying soon. Actually, I'd like to. Realistically it might take a while since I don't tend to be interested in marrying or pursuing most women, but if I had someone I liked, I would be quite happy to "settle."
I'n curious what you mean by "pagan." Would you like to elaborate on what you mean by this?
Don't monks generally take a vow of celibacy? Lol. I'm curious why you say this, since I wasn't meaning to preach, and what I was trying to say was that I chose myself over God. Even if I said something like "my inner god" rather than "myself" I don't think what I said was something that could easily be worked into something compatible with orthodox Christianity.
Also, not that I consider myself pro-adultery, but when did I talk about what sin was?
It wasn't anything specific that you said, @FreelancePoliceman, but rather it was just your whole "tone", which reminded me of ascetic monks. If you had been talking about the number of angels that can fit into a hyperbole, I'd have said the same thing. Maybe I'm actually making a statement about LII logic here, more than anything.
You didn't. I was just contrasting my actions with a more religious philosophy in general.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-23-2022 at 05:49 PM.
Yes, I was more using your post as an inspiration for going on a tangent. Good luck in your dating adventures. I'm in the same situation.
Society and culture is like a structure imposed upon us. Not just as an outer thing, but psychologically it is the spirit that gives us direction and makes us human. Maybe it's called super-ego also as a psychic phenomenon. So when sexuality is incorporated into this I think of it as more Christian, and when sexuality is expressed freely, without this structure, so that human sexuality is in a way "dissociated" from the spirit then it's more pagan. I'm not sure how much value judgement one can put into this though, but in a way integrating nature into the spirit is Christian and progressive. Sorry if I can't express this very well, my understanding might still be unclear to myself.I'n curious what you mean by "pagan." Would you like to elaborate on what you mean by this?
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
If you don't mind my also going on a tangent, I think I can see vaguely what you mean by this social/cultural "structure." If we have the same thing in mind, I think I dislike it - it feels limiting, and like being possessed by something else which inhibits my thinking and my experiencing life freely/in accordance with myself. I would say I've more or less intentionally developed an attitude to resist this "structure," to such an extent that it's become difficult to perceive it anymore. My attitude might be related to Ne, since I think many Ne egos have done something similar.
Anyway, maybe I am a pagan. Lol. This is something interesting to think about.
Good luck to you as well!
Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 01-23-2022 at 07:54 PM.
Err, yeah. It's a deadly sin for a reason. Matrimony (and all it entails) is the only licit form sexual urges can and should take (let alone be acted upon). It is sinful to passionately kiss or grope the breasts of a woman you aren't wed to. Once you are wed that flips and, like I said, becomes something to be celebrated. Imagine the abject horror of only having sex with your wife/husband but once a year! A most truly horrifying thing in the eyes and minds of any true believer! Yet for many, far too many, that's the horror movie in which they both live! The fact this is the case pains me deeply for they ought to be fucking like horny jackrabbits in all manners of ways.
Like I said, it is a grave misconception that us Catholics are sex hating prudes who extol, like some Anglican heretic who originated the phrase far as I can tell, that a woman should just "endure" sex as she "lies back and thinks of England" as if she's a robot who must procreate and produce children as per the demands of coldand its flawless conclusion that you gotta have kids to keep society going. Yeah, it says the act of making those kids is sick and disgusting but no kids=no civilization so it's a "necessary evil" as it were.
Bullshit! Not only is it not that at all it's a necessary good! Happily wedded couples lusting after each other with a fiery passion ought to be the kind of plotline that occupies the majority of the trashy romance novel section of a bookstore. That it is not speaks volumes as to the veracity of my other assertions in regards to us all being victims of narrative warfare and full-court press propaganda designed to immiserate us all.
Hehehe, yeah, you're right, I don't approve. At all. But so long as ya did the bad thing feed me some data on that front. How'd ya meet and how/why exactly did ya both decide to fornicate and, in her case, violate her sacred vows on top of that? I already got good guesses from many vectors but as always I seek to see just how hard my theories and conjectures worked out IRL.
ILI-
We met on Match. Her lawyer told her to see a shrink for depression (due to her husband leaving her) and her shrink recommended that she meet more people. On Match.Hehehe, yeah, you're right, I don't approve. At all. But so long as ya did the bad thing feed me some data on that front. How'd ya meet and how/why exactly did ya both decide to fornicate and, in her case, violate her sacred vows on top of that? I already got good guesses from many vectors but as always I seek to see just how hard my theories and conjectures worked out IRL.
ILI-
She was (is) an ESI and she was (is) married to an LSI who left her, took all their money with him, and he took up with a younger woman.
It wasn’t hard for me to be a better man than that guy. Plus, Duality helped.
She stayed married to him because that way she can still be on his medical insurance. He works a Union job at a car company, so his insurance is hard to beat.
Her staying married to the guy not only adds to her financial security, but it also keeps most guys away. When we first started talking, she said she was divorced. Then she said she was only separated.
I met about half my GFs when they were with some other guy and were looking for a change. Many women like security, though, and usually won’t ditch one guy before they have another in their sights.
Plus, being Duals helped. I didn’t pressure her, and that helped tremendously to get to know her better.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-24-2022 at 04:16 AM.
Forgive the inane comment, as this doesn't build on anything anyone was talking about, but I find it interesting that two of the most religious people I've encountered on here are both weebs. Not saying that's a bad thing btw. I'm a weeb too. It's just odd to me that you and Pandemic are both interested in anime given how pagan Japanese culture is
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell猫が生き甲斐
Further confirmation of my theories. Sadly on the darker end I'm sorry to say. People accuse us Gamma's as being heartless exploiters of our situations. We're not psychopaths, we're high-functioning sociopaths! Learn the difference!We met on Match. Her lawyer told her to see a shrink for depression (due to her husband leaving her) and her shrink recommended that she meet more people. On Match.
She was (is) an ESI and she was (is) married to an LSI who left her, took all their money with him, and he took up with a younger woman.
It wasn’t hard for me to be a better man than that guy. Plus, Duality helped.
She stayed married to him because that way she can still be on his medical insurance. He works a Union job at a car company, so his insurance is hard to beat.
Her staying married to the guy not only adds to her financial security, but it also keeps most guys away. When we first started talking, she said she was divorced. Then she said she was only separated.
I met about half my GFs when they were with some other guy and were looking for a change. Many women like security, though, and usually won’t ditch one guy before they have another in their sights.
Plus, being Duals helped. I didn’t pressure her, and that helped tremendously to get to know her better.
The implications are obvious. Gamma's are at best flawed algorithms pretending at competence and/or high-functioning autists who can only but hopelessly grope at true humanity. Sadly, you didn't exactly help matters here. I am nothing if not honest and I'll tell ya this to your face in all the good faith I can muster. Stop seeking vaginal approval! Seek instead the deeper and more fulfilling approval of your children and the like!
If you've never pursued the works of Yasuhiro Nightow please do so. You've likely already done so I'd wager if "Trigun" rings any bells. Also, Japanese culture is pagan but it never really and fully rejected Christianity. Indeed, had we not nuked Nagasaki at the behest of the Catholic hating Harry Truman it's quite likely the Japanese would have eagerly accepted their place in history as yet another partner in/part of Christendom. Hell, had Oda Nobunaga survived to rule over his lands Commiefornia would likely have been a colony of a foreign nation by the time us burgerborn came across it. The dude listened very intently to those missionaries after all...
Trigun is actually one of my favourites! I've been very tempted to buy a high quality replica of his pistol they have for sale at the local anime merch shop, but it's ¥30,000...T_T
Why do you bring Trigun up though? I know there's a lot of Christian-inspired imagery in the show, but I think that's just cause the creator wanted the feel of an American Western film.
I'd like to know more about why you think this sometime. I find it a bit far-fetched given that people here really don't seem to be particularly interested in any religion. Even Shinto shrine visitation rates are way down from what they used to be. Korea on the other hand seems far more receptive to Christianity and religion generally speaking.
I don't doubt he might have tried to conquer a lot of places had he lived long enough. Also, Nobunaga was indeed deeply interested in the Christian missionaries, but given how he viewed the Buddhists as rivals to his power, how ruthless of a man he was (the dude killed his own brother), how he tried to get people to worship HIM as a god, and the fact that the Christian missionaries brought verrrrry interesting tech with them (like the guns he used to turn the tide of so many battles to his favour), I think it's more reasonable to believe that his interest in the Christians was purely tactical
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell
This explains a lot, because the way you dropped the topic in the discussion didn't seem all that noble at first. Still, it's a strange situation that you ended up in.
Many women, or ESIs specifically?
Last edited by Armitage; 01-24-2022 at 05:53 AM.
In my limited experience, it happens with a lot of types, so I would conclude that it’s not-type-related.
@End, yeah, not bombing Japan to bring forth fascist missionary samurai sound like a great idea: "Convert to Christianity, or die!"
Nobody expects the ~~Spanish~~ Japanese inquisition.
https://lolpics.com/wp-content/uploa...ywepwkfh71.jpg
I think I mentioned that I was hoping to meet with a cute semi-dual. Well, he stopped messaging..I think he knows he's hot haha. But he's not quite my type so I'll get over it. Anyway, I remembered that a cute Estp had liked my pic on Hinge (Hinge is a site where you send direct likes rather than swiping) and I decided to talk to him. I couldn't tell if I found him attractive so I did some facebook hunting and I still wasn't sure but he's growing on me now. He seems nice and..interested. If I don't like him, I think I'll message an SLI I chatted to before briefly.
@Bethany sorry to hear the SEE stopped responding, I think that is definitely wrong when people do that, but you seem to be handling it ok. I've never heard of Hinge. Is it fairly active?
Ah, that's a bummer, @Bethany. Yet good to hear that you're back in the saddle again and are now trying with the ESTP who liked you. It neither worked out between the bike guy and me. Not because it doesn't click, it sure does, as we talk often and are on the same wavelength. But because he apparently didn't put "top" as his WhatsApp status, in order to refer to his sexual position, but because it also means "great" in German, as well as in Dutch. Not many people choose it as their WhatsApp status, however, since most are aware of the sexual connotation, but he didn't seem to know.
He's a nice friend, however, and a fun guy to hang out with. Now that I have gotten to know him better, I have become even more convinced that he and I are duals. When he talks about sports, I get very enthusiastic, and he's even interested in listening to me talk about politics and statistics. Statistics! It's not exactly cocktail party banter, nonetheless he's genuinely interested in going more in-depth about it than what he needs for his exams. I like that! For me it's such a shame that he's as straight as an arrow, but he'll make a good father some day for his future wife and children.
Last edited by Armitage; 01-26-2022 at 09:15 AM.
Hmm yeah. Annoying when you've been chatting a while. Hinge is the most popular free app in UK, other than Bumble. It looks a little like a social media site- you can like people's comments/pics and they will get a notificaiton. It takes a bit longer to go through profiles but in a way that stops you going mad with swiping, haha. I basically only use those two apps now.
@Armitage ah soz to hear that. It's a shame seeing as you get on wellYeah it is fun chatting to duals, for sure. Oh I did have a date with a dual recenlty that wasn't fun. He was quite confident when we were messaging..but as soon as I met him, he seemed different..also he looked different. He had a nasty cold, (which I later caught) and a hangover so maybe he wasn't at his best. The convo was a little boring, even if it did feel a little energising. Dates with duals can end up going kinda badly in the end..the new guy seems..normal. Let's see, hey.
Tomorrow I have to face my colleague that I liked, liked, liked for three years until recently. I recently realised I can't be his friend and need to not talk to him (may even move to a different building). We have had a very rocky friendship and I was trying to work with him and get by, seeing if we could be friends but it hit me all at once, that it wasn't working. He is soo hot and cold with me. I really do think that we have a lot of chemistry and he subconsciously finds me a threat, so he has to be mean to me, even if he doesn't realise he's doing it. It's basically sexual tension, but there isn't any release so instead he has to be mean. I get a bit wrapped up in our acquaintanceship and don't realise the damage it's doing to me, only for it to hit me all at once. Similarly, I think he gets caught up in the exciting energy we have and doesn't realise how mean he's being. Sure, he has poor self-awareness...this is something I know about him. But it's like he has zero ability to reflect on/ contextualise his behaviour around me, and how I might perceive it. Considering we have previously been through a really rough time together, yet do look out for each other....it is odd that he isn't more careful. I think when we are around each other we go into some sort of space/time warp and then we part, (and he goes home to his gf, whilst I go home feeling a little crazy) but the next time we meet we pick up where we left off...until he does something to really p** me off. I don't know if he even thinks we have good chemistry, he's SEI and they seem to jump about a lot with feelings/moods, but I think he might have started to twig that we do, after all this time..
Sooo...tomorrow I tell him I'm not talking to him anymore.
Hope it's ok to put this in the dating thread.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 01-24-2022 at 06:37 PM.
Oof, @Bethany, that's tough. Have you told him before that he has been behaving rude to you, because you do mention the guy to be pretty clueless? Maybe he betters his life after being made aware, or perhaps he does not, but if that's the case you can still always start giving him the cold shoulder.
@Armitage..yep he does know. But I think when I told him it was a shock so I don’t know how much he really understood how/what to change. He is nice to other people :/ It was this bad situation that first brought me to socionics I suppose. think we need to part ways and hopefully he will learn something too. It’s too difficult to talk about with him though, he can text/email when he wants :/ We will probably say bye at some point, maybe.. I think I once read that lookalikes often learn something from each other but then don’t need each other anymore. He taught me to not always trust people’s images they project and that chemistry is not the be all and end all..and I hope I taught him to be gentle with people’s feelings, especially if they are in an already vulnerable position.
It’s sometimes difficult to tell with an SEI how much they’re aware of their mistakes. I think they get flashes of awareness but it passes before they can think what to say/do to change things. I only really have 2 SEIs in mind when I say this
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 01-24-2022 at 09:09 PM.
That made me chuckle. It's been awhile since I read the Hagakure. Perhaps I need to re-read it with that thought in mind. A "Christian" Samurai would have to reconcile the faith with Bushido. Such an exercise in syncretism could be quite interesting and a few of them must have succeeded. At least, to the satisfaction of their own minds. Cool idea for a character to put into a novel if it was done right.
Reading all this I cannot not come back around to attachment issues. Everyone has them but this SEI in particular seems to have them really, really bad. If I knew his family situation I could probably point out how, where, and why he's getting those negative behaviors. I've said it everywhere in recent months that those are the true key to finding happy relationships or predicting which ones will fail in one way or another. The baseline lack of ability or willingness to actually and truly open up to someone and show them who you truly are is what dooms them. It prevents one from developing a truly close and intimate relationship with others. It's most important in romance but it also bleeds over into other relationships. These issues will also ruin familial and even just normal friendships if left unchecked and undealt with.
Also, I would advise against online dating services unless you're well versed on how to scan/filter for the aforementioned issues. While some gems may lie in those rough fields the grand majority of people who remain in the modern world either without them or only have them in a mild form are not online. At least, not on any online dating service. They're at home. Knitting scarves, reading books, writing treatises, playing video games, etc. If they do go on a date, it'll be because a close friend or family member set them up with someone they think would be a good match for them. You have to be adjacent to or otherwise already a part of their "monkeysphere" as I put it. Sadly, the broken attract and surround themselves with the broken as a matter of subconscious course. Thus for most people this isn't going to happen for them. If they were already a "part of the network" as I put it, they'd likely already be wed or engaged.
The only way I'm aware of to intentionally put yourself into that kind of space/situation from the outside is to get active with a religion in your area. For me, that entails volunteering at my Parish/Church. Works fine for me as I'm already a devout believer but "faking" it to find a good mate is likely unfeasible. Aside from fixing whatever attachment issues you likely already have finding a faith you can really get behind and actually believe in would be a good step in the right direction. As I'm also fond of saying, you have a God whether you think or believe you do or not. Naming and/or finding it is very important.
Matches with my research. Evolutionary psychology explains both attachment issues and this phenomenon as well. To be abandoned by family and tribe was to die. To be a woman without a potentially committed and emotionally bonded male to provide for her and her children while she was preggers was to both die herself and doom her children to the same fate by extension. While not everyone is like me in valuing Self-Preservation above all else it's still a concern for everyone. Same as why I'm more than willing to let "so" slide it still concerns me a bit.
I don't/won't go around telling random people they're ugly as sin (even if they objectively are, go to Wal-Mart after midnight and I rest my case) or that they ought to do without that bag of candy their morbidly obese whamalo landwhale ass is munching on as they wash it all down with a 2-liter of Pepsi cold approach style. I mean, I'd like to, but that'd be me screwing myself over. Even if I don't value that instinct directly, I still don't actively fight against or violate it consciously. I find it a bother overall, but I still won't/can't fully discard it.
The logic is flawless in reverse as well. It goes without saying that if you are dead, you are not getting laid/being intimate with someone or making social connections and/or developing relationships of any kind. Thus, while it may not be your first conscious thought, you still don't fight against or directly violate that instinct consciously or actively. Well, unless you're literally suicidal that is in the case of sp...
Things are both way simpler and yet more complicated than many would like to think. Like I've told my LSE mother and anyone else that stuck around me long enough, people tend to be overly paranoid about things they ought not to be yet also not nearly paranoid enough about things they really should be!
Where I to follow your advice to ditch dating applications altogether, @End, in my situation this would entail a guaranteed lifetime sentence of solitude.
Regarding your comment about the Wallmart customers, a sugar tax should be imposed, like the United Kingdom already has done. The revenue of which can be used to make all healthy goods and services, such as fruit, vegetables, and Gym memberships tax free or even to subsidize them. It would be better for all of us. In addition, the investment would return itself via the healthcare costs that it saves, as well as through the enhanced productivity of the people. Healthy citizens are happy citizens, and happy citizens are productive citizens. It's a win-win for everybody.
Why do you say that? I get that in life we can be in situations where we don't see many people and have no other way to meet than through dating apps (been there myself) but why a "lifetime" of solitude since certainly this type of situation can change?
I mean it more as in that it is very hard in real life to recognize if others are gay too, not to say nigh impossible. Dating apps make it actually possible to know when others are also looking for a guy. I'm a social fellow, but I'd never walk up to someone to ask them out without knowing first that they're gay too.
I try to confer to End that life is not all that categorical as he sometimes portrays it. Not everything is only black and white, nor are dating apps a purely good or bad thing. Yes, finding love through shared friends or interests is preferable, if this is actually an option. For those like me who are "different", or people who lack the confidence to walk up to others, or whatever reason one can imagine, dating apps provide an option to meet others who are looking, when the classical methods for finding love didn't work.
I see. Yes, I have heard from gay men before that they find it quiet difficult to meet someone, given that the percentage of men in the general population who are gay or bi is fairly low. I know one guy who had frequented the gay community out here in Belgium but said that people there were mostly just looking for hookups and not serious relationships. Tbh even as a straight man I find it much easier to meet people via apps, as when I ask a woman out there the answer tends to be a yes, since we have already matched and spoken a bit, so the intent is clear and you more or less know there is initial attraction. In real life, it's alot more confused. Even when I meet someone I like, they are often either already in a relationship, not attracted back, or not in a phase of their life where they want to date. So the chance of asking someone else and being met with a negative answer is much higher. And as an introvert, I don't meet huge amounts of people either.
I agree with the general idea of what End is saying about attachment issues, based on my experience it is quiet a prevelant problem. I wouldn't say it is exclusively on dating apps though that these problems exist, or that everyone on apps has attachment issues so I agree with you that it's a mix of good and bad when it comes to these apps.
I wish you the best of luck in finding the right person.
It's a general recommendation. Most of the people on them have major attachment issues. Hook-up culture itself is symptomatic of that. Like I said, it's not impossible to find a good mate using them, but finding them requires one know how to detect and filter against those with major issues. This problem is compounded by the fact that said issues are harder to detect if you have them yourself. As I repeatedly point out, the broken attract the broken subconsciously. They are drawn to each other as, well, neither of them will really dig too deep into who the other really is. After all, if they did, they'd see how they're utterly unlovable sacks of shit so if neither of them dig too deep it'll all work out! Problem is that's a recipe for a great session of sex perhaps, but that ain't any kind of stable foundation for a long and happy marriage (or any form of healthy long-term relationship period).
It's hard to fix the issues, but it's also the only way anyone will stand a chance at finding a truly intimate and fulfilling romance. The "networks" I mentioned are a kind of shortcut. Unbroken people are usually willing to help someone who's mostly fixed get fully fixed. Indeed, one of the last steps to fully fixing yourself is to find such a partner. One who is almost or already totally fixed. However, as the unbroken associate mostly with the unbroken their social circles rarely intersect with those of the broken. The one place I can see them doing so is, like I said, in a religion. Any given "church" is going to have both healthy and broken people in it. The healthy ones are looking to match their loved ones up with other fixed or mostly fixed individuals who share the faith. There may be other places like that, but I am currently unaware of them.
As for a sugar tax, well, I agree in concept but I would not trust our current elites to administer it in such a way that'd work out for everyone's collective best interest. It's not hard to see that the elites hate the people they currently rule over. Noblesse Oblige has turned into Noblesse Malice. Giving such people any additional powers or trusting them to administer anything like that is like appointing a starving wolf to guard your henhouse. You aren't going to have many hens left by the time they're done with it.
@Armitage, your post got me curious about the ethics of taxing sugar (or cigarettes, or similar health-harming goods) and i found a nice discussion of this for sugar in this piece- https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...020.00110/full. I looked it up b/c I struggle with stigmatizing people who engage in health-harming behaviors without examining social contexts and influences (structural ones) on their decision-making. Your post didn't do this; it's just something i'm sensitive to. anyway, i'm certainly not libertarian, but i do value choice to an extent..., so it's nice to see this rebuttal of libertarian arguments in the sugar tax case.
Spending time at walmart (especially late at night) definitely tends to remind me of the massive variety in how people live and present themselves. Feels like a sociological laboratory experience, almost - especially having spoken via interview with folks who used to fund a heroin habit through some duplicitous actions at the Walmart in our town while living in their car in the parking lot. fortunately, they received the help they needed and are doing a lot better these days (and indeed were when i interviewed them, as well).
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