Several orders of magnitude from first-hand smoking to fourth-hand smoking. That kind of effects are lost in the noise and are probably not even detectable on a population level.Originally Posted by Irene Add
Several orders of magnitude from first-hand smoking to fourth-hand smoking. That kind of effects are lost in the noise and are probably not even detectable on a population level.
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Yes, on a population level pretty much anything could cause one or two cancers per million. It's not relevant at individual level, you take much bigger risks by going out the door or with most things you eat or drink.
I am not finding fault with looking away from a population level extremely rare risk. I am asking about your jump from what the educated in that field scientists are saying about 1stHS, SHS, THS, and FHS to your deciding that your comparison of 'well, this one seems smaller risk to me, so I will call it negligible'
Why don't you put some facts on the table about the dose level of fourth-hand smoke compared to first-hand smoking that proves it isn't several orders of magnitude less and, for example, less significant than exposure to jet fuel fumes and cosmic radiation from taking a flight?
Because you're the one making the claim (burden of proof is yours) and honestly,also because I am about to be driving and have to piss..
You made the claim about "educated field scientists" who had something to say about fourth-hand smoking being significantly dangerous. The dangers of first-hand and second-hand smoking are known - the cancer effect reduces with dosage and fourth-hand is barely detectable dosage (google the studies), especially for anything else than nicotine which is barely carcinogenic in comparison to most other tobacco smoke compounds. It's common sense to say it's negligible.
Thanks for telling me about your piss needs, nanashi, but I'm not a Si dominant who finds that endearing to hear.
Uhm.. How the hell is North Star a Te demo or creative again?.. Demo will put the facts up for you, Te creative will as well.. Just feels like an lsi-D ignoring Te, but having ate booster enough to where asks for it in others.
Imagine believing North Star is Fi polr when all he does is assess people by his attraction and repulsion to them and makes moral judgements of others from a role super ego. Classical Ti systemizing replacing Fi maybe, but he still lacks the Ne role and openness to be an sle there.
I am in my head; not society.
Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am. Also, a brain angel. (+ my own incarnation of a Zelda concept).
My thoughts align w action to succeed what needs (at least in my dreamed ideal, they do)…
Dragons:
Babies, click them to make them grow up into Kara’s Dragon Museum
My favorite adult Museum Exhibits
Also, being several orders of mag less doesn't ensure a lack of effectiveness in disease causation. You might have longer-term exposure making up any difference well enough, OR you might be dealing with such a carcinogenic substance that even a large discrepancy in moles isn't enough to de-risk. This why I asked why you decided to write it off instead of holding the line, allowing for those unknowns.
Scientists science ...a lot. They generally pick up tools. Makes sense for us to at least look at their findings
It’s funny that North Star thinks I’ve mistyped and thinks I’m my mirror, when he is actually the one who has mistyped as his mirror and quasi identical. There is no ounce of Ne from North Star, it is Se masquerading as Ne with concrete sensory images and an aesthetic. He absorbs information though relations (entrance of the mental ring) and informs his Ti systemic from this thereby. Ignores Te to where he can’t actually pull up the information himself and puts the proof on others, when an actual mental Te or demo will provide it their own self..
Projects his own subjective sensory impressions and logic (Ti and Si) unto objects and treats them as objective facts, which isn’t what Te OR Se is about, then people are ignorant enough to use him as a “model sle”. Joke is on their ignorance.
I am in my head; not society.
Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am. Also, a brain angel. (+ my own incarnation of a Zelda concept).
My thoughts align w action to succeed what needs (at least in my dreamed ideal, they do)…
Dragons:
Babies, click them to make them grow up into Kara’s Dragon Museum
My favorite adult Museum Exhibits
Are you seriously argumenting about the dangers of tobacco smoke smell on someone's clothes or are you doing the usual IEE of making arguments out of nothing just because you don't want to lose an argument and have trouble putting things in proportion, prioritizing and making distinctions?
Yes, scientists science, thanks for that blinding insight. Remember to not take any more flights, you know to avoid the exposure to a known strong carcinogen, ionizing radiation, as well as inhaling all the carcinogenic compounds from the pressurized cabin air that comes from the jet engine bypass.
As a MASTER of Science in engineering, what I've professionally done for the last 20 years is put things in proportion and make quick back-of-the-envelope calculations about which effects are significant and which are negligible. Most things, including medical, have a dose-response characteristic. You are exposed to the same toxins that are found in cigarette smoke anyway every day in varying amounts no matter what you do unless you live in a sterile bubble.
I’ve no opinion on the topic being discussed, other than that it is heartless to ignore someone’s trauma with loss around smoking and put it as apart of their character, which.. Is also a very Ne polr ish and subjective/introverted cognitive standpoint (that is manifested as unhealthy. Not all Ne polr are like this). “Ah, SLE’s are jerks, they’ve Fi polr”… Uh, in ego socionics, SLE’s actually thrive and perfect to be a moral person, but replace Ti laws unto it, and an sle doesn’t provoke negative emotions in others, they’ve Fe+, in even model G. They can shake and move people with Se-, but they do not want to provoke negative emotionality at all. This is all lsi behavior in G, and it isn’t an ego set up of sle in classic.
My motive for this is I am tired of the stupidity of North Star and projecting on me I don’t know myself and just want be a type when he doesn’t know shit about socio and has mistyped himself twice.
I also don’t believe smoking is healthy. Patchouli and hypnosis can give the same and a better effect.. But I am not here to micromanage people and tell them they can’t, even though it’s weird smoking is legal and CBD wasn’t for a long time, when it has no risks (probably some $ crap thing).. But I am here to expression my frustration of being unseen and projected upon, and also it’s another pattern of traumatic dismissal.
Also: there is no Se- in how North takes jabs; it is a subtle probe like Qaz’s.. It isn’t an exertion of force, it is a controlled and introverted slit. Kill4me would be a good example of Se- and Fe+ HA, I was between lsi-c and sle-n in G, but I actually believe he’s sle in all systems, indeed.
I am in my head; not society.
Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am. Also, a brain angel. (+ my own incarnation of a Zelda concept).
My thoughts align w action to succeed what needs (at least in my dreamed ideal, they do)…
Dragons:
Babies, click them to make them grow up into Kara’s Dragon Museum
My favorite adult Museum Exhibits
Also to add to this discussion at topic without making a moral judgment of North Star anymore, is that microplastics actually are very dangerous and are being found in infant placentas, the brain, carotid artery, stomach, lung, and many other things. Smoking would be a very potent way to get plastic in your lungs… Heat being an activator of its spread.. Unfortunately, plastic is in most things, even food, but it just is another addition that doesn’t help. I do believe tobacco is cancer inductive, but some of the research that shows it unhealthy maybe has do with plastics causing the cancer.. As microplastics are responsible for (I guessed this one before I studied it) some of Alzheimer’s cases, heart attacks and stroke (a big one), hormonal alternate, birth deformation and complication, and cancer. They’re carcinogenic..
I have been trying to reduce my exposure to microplastics… I used to volunteer aromatherapy at a mental health wellness center.. I don’t have any $ to buy things, but I have a good relation with the head of that place, and I had thought about making a Saturday hour gathering to discuss plastic-free living and holistic health in general..
In my moving mind movement thread, I researched some companies that are good:
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Minds-Movement
Last edited by Braingel; 11-18-2024 at 06:02 PM.
I am in my head; not society.
Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am. Also, a brain angel. (+ my own incarnation of a Zelda concept).
My thoughts align w action to succeed what needs (at least in my dreamed ideal, they do)…
Dragons:
Babies, click them to make them grow up into Kara’s Dragon Museum
My favorite adult Museum Exhibits
So what I'm hearing is you're estimating and dismissing and then mocking all outside your scope of practice.
Well done, you admitted that it's what you are hearing. We're done here.
Last time of pointing out something on this.. But semantic focus is more Fe seeking... And all that has been done in here is using Ti+ to retain artificial definitions within one's own Ti+ career and an Ne polr of failing account for other viewpoints and replacing with it, concrete experience and appearances of things with that Ne and being rigid and firm, "I have experienced it and trained in it, so I know". An Ne role would be more open-minded to this, and a demo Te would have provided the evidence itself rather than subjective experience.
I am in my head; not society.
Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am. Also, a brain angel. (+ my own incarnation of a Zelda concept).
My thoughts align w action to succeed what needs (at least in my dreamed ideal, they do)…
Dragons:
Babies, click them to make them grow up into Kara’s Dragon Museum
My favorite adult Museum Exhibits
Are we?
.
Last edited by Irene Add; 11-18-2024 at 07:16 PM. Reason: I've probably gone too far with the sex joke. My bad
I was casually dating my dual for like 6 months and he started getting wishy washy about relationships so I dropped him like a hot potato and we both ghosted each other. He has a ton of anxiety, didn't want to lose his autonomy etc etc. From my perspective it was all about him, his needs, his goals etc. Nothing about mine and what I needed. I didn't want to stick around to try and help him open up and potentially leave myself open to rejection after years and years of dedicating myself to him. Been there already.
in terms of the introvert thinking that their extrovert dual is out of their league: i can feel it a bit, with the person (extrovert, my dual) whom i am thinking of -- it's more though for me in the dimensions of like cultural refinement -- this person grew up with more highly educated parents than i did, and these parents worked in more academic or knowledge-based professions than mine did, which makes me feel a little 'shallow' in comparison, like i fit in a bit more with mainstream culture --
although on a very individual level, i am a core 4, but that's different
anyway, i really want to give it a shot, so i won't let feeling a littttle intimidated/hypothetically insecure in this dimension stop me. (I'm an aggressor in Gulenko's romantic/erotic styles through and through❕an introverted one, too...)
ESI: "prissy yet sexual"
(can't find source for that description, let me know if you know it!)
Let me say something here. If the LIE likes you, your parent's educational status is not going to matter in the slightest. An LIE can always get more money, but he can't easily get someone who loves him.
Of course, being hot helps, too.
Some advice: They say that Aggressors are sure of their feelings, and that they are constant in that regard. Well, Victims are not. Victims assume that things inevitably go downhill, unless proven otherwise, and therefore their attention starts to drift. So, if you start dating this guy and things turn intimate, make sure that you maintain your car at regular intervals, because cars can go downhill fast if you don't change the oil regularly.
Regular maintenance is all it takes, really, to keep a car running forever.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-20-2024 at 01:56 AM.
i'm tempted to post some of the several photos i have of us together (some taken spontaneously e.g. by the photographer at our friends' (him friends with the guy, me friends with the woman) post-elopement wedding party), or from when we went on a hike together after getting breakfast tacos when i was in town and came to him and we sent the pic to our friends. however, i'll refrain.... i would kill lol to start dating and get intimate with this guy, and would be most happy to keep that intimacy going❕the LSI guy whom I was with in 2015-2016 couldnt perform very well consistently in that respect due to his abuse of his medication/recreational drug use... and the ILE, well, the sex was more incidental for me, i was looking to be seen and to connect, and getting attached wasnt good for me... JEEZ, the ILE is the last person i've slept with. In 2019. It's storytelling/oversharing time❕
ESI: "prissy yet sexual"
(can't find source for that description, let me know if you know it!)
anyway, i had some of the ideas about cross-class marriages from Jessi Streib in mind when writing my post. if i would possibly classify myself as upper middle class and him as upper class, in our families of origin. maybe. i guess i mean that he has some cultural capital that i don't.
ESI: "prissy yet sexual"
(can't find source for that description, let me know if you know it!)
H-LII-Ne with well developed Fe making her look a bit like SEI.
Why do you think LIEs can’t find someone who loves them? Do they keep on choosing the wrong people? They don’t know how to love back?
Lol. It's hard to find anyone who loves someone else, much less one particular person (you).
Actually, I know a lot of LIEs who are married. Most of them are married to non-Duals, and these LIEs and their wives are in various states of discontent.
Another impediment to finding the right woman is that you might not want to be with a person, even if they love you. I'm pretty sure that my SLI ex-wife loves me, and the two LSIs that I dated loved me, and the ESI that I dated was starting to love me, and the IEIs that I dated wanted to love me, but I had deal-breaker problems with all of them.
You might conclude that the problem is on my side; that I can't be in a relationship. But I was married for a long time, and the ESI and LSI relationships lasted around three years each, so I'd say that the problem is that a woman who meets my standards is just rare, and I haven't met one of them in person yet. The ESI was really close, though. Really close.
Dating is tough. It's easier if you aren't particular, but I am particular.
LIEs can love back. Everyone can. The problem for LIEs is that they can't easily verbalize their love back. I think that this inability to do Fe love is not a problem for xSIs. With 1D Fi, I'm not really in touch with my feelings, and the feelings that I am in touch with are those of a five-year-old, and I think that a good woman understands that kind of thing.
Early when I was dating the LSI, she was cooking something while I talked to her from a kitchen chair, and she said "You don't express your feelings much, so when you say you love me, it really means something."
God, she understood me. I felt so loved at that moment.
She was a lot smarter about interpersonal relationships that I was.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-20-2024 at 03:29 PM.
So what’s the problem with the ESI that was pretty close, if you already realized it?
I think @Adam Strange is LIE-ni..
Are you implying that the ESI is Fi sub, so she’s not 100% compatible?
I don't think it's helpful to think about subtypes. But if it doesn't work out..I guess it's some lack of compatibility.
The problem with "the ESI that was pretty close" was that she is Dismissive-Avoidant. There were no other problems.*
I was kind of surprised when we started having sex and she was everything I wanted. That really surprised me, but hey, she's an ESI-Fi, which is the best subtype for an LIE-Te. She and I got along great in private and in public. I was starting to think in terms of a long-term contract, but then she started pulling back as soon as she realized that I wasn't just a fun distraction, but rather was a potential keeper.
You can read more about Dismissive-Avoidant behavior on the internets. It's not changeable to Secure in a reasonable time period.
*
I went to a restaurant today for lunch with a couple of guys from work, and the place was packed so we sat at the bar until a table opened up.
The bartender was a raven-haired LSI with very nice secondary sex characteristics, and she hated me as soon as my companions and I started talking politics and how disappointed we are with the results of the election. The restaurant is in solid Red territory.
However, she brought us our drinks and was just civil enough and she squinted at me because I'm a liberal and she's not, not at all, but who knows, I might be a good tipper.
What she wasn't counting on was that she is LSI and I'm LIE. LIE is a sexually-compatible but logical version of her Dual. My friends and I sat at the bar for forty minutes while she surreptitiously listened to our conversation about decoding reflected GPS signals to extract ground data and she started to thaw a bit. I mean, what LSI can resist a good convo on high data rate spectral filtering?
I've been alone now for over a year, and I was looking at her speculatively whenever her back was turned, but an SEI waitress saw me looking and could easily read my thoughts. The two of them had a short conversation, and then the LSI came over to me and leaned forward over the bar to make sure that I could tell that she was female, and asked if there was anything I'd like?
I told her that I'd like a cup of coffee, and when she set it in front of me, I picked it up and made a point of touching her hand, and that was all it took. She was sold on me.*
If I had just a few less scruples, I'd have asked her what time she got off work and would she like to have dinner with me? But I've been to this rodeo twice before, and it doesn't end well, so I just tipped her well when we left.
What seems so unfair to me is how easily I can establish rapport with female LSIs, and how hard it is for me to establish anything with a female ESI.
I mean, half of this is my fault, right? So why can I go for a short-term sexual relationship with an LSI when a permanent one with an ESI seems out of the question?
If I hadn't tested as Secure, I'd say that I'm behaving like an Avoidant.
*You may not believe me at this point. I don't care.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-20-2024 at 09:06 PM.
travel plans across the country possibly getting delayed by 3 days so maaaaaaaaay be able to see dual crush this weekend because im back in my hometown which is ~1 hr from the city where he is (i’d go to him; there’s lots more to do there; my parents are in a suburb). Eiiiiiiii. IF he is even available. but i have no plans for saturday or sunday since i didn’t expect to be here this weekend, soooooo we’ll see❕
ESI: "prissy yet sexual"
(can't find source for that description, let me know if you know it!)
I've been working with this ILE guy for the better part of a year, and now that winter is upon us, he's going back to his warmer country. During that year, I talked to him about Socionics from time to time, and as a parting gift, he just sent me a picture of a woman whom he thinks might be my Dual.
I never showed him any pictures of ESIs, so I have no idea how he got her type right.
Do I think she's my Dual? Oh, yeah.
https://imgur.com/a/Q9bCGzS
P.S. I think the machine that she's running is called a keyseater. Either that, or she's cutting gear teeth.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-22-2024 at 06:39 PM.
Adam, if you want a picture of an ESI woman I can send you one. It was one of my exes' moms of all people. Other than that, the only other ESI I know is a family member that's 70+. She might be a bit too old for you. Fun fact: she almost married one of the guys from KISS before he made it big, her friend talked her out of it... big mistake.
I logged into Match this morning and discovered that my profile had been looked at by someone who is the same age and from the same little town as the Dismissive-Avoidant ESI that I dated for three years. This person had a name different from the ESI and no photo.
If it was the ESI, it's been 280 days since I last saw her (I'm not counting; I had to look it up so you, the reader, can better understand Dismissive-Avoidant behavior), and not a word from her since then. Which is typical for Dismissive Avoidants, and it kind of mirrors our relationship.
I updated my Match profile to say that I was looking for an ISFP with a Secure attachment style. I don't think this will change anything, but in any case, I am.
This is not a post about a dating experience, but rather is a post about the results of my dating experiences.
For the record, I believe in VI and I'm an LIE-Te, so my theoretical best match would be an ESI-Fi.
In my experience, I tend to meet more ESI-Se's than ESI-Fi's. ESI-Se is closer to my Activity partner, the SEE, and so is the ESI sub-type with whom I tend to have more fun and adventures. However, ESI-Se's tend not to want to settle down into a marriage, whereas ESI-Fi's are natural nesters. Unfortunately, ESI-Fi's tend towards e4, and that's just a bit too deep and comfortable for me. I want an e6 ESI-Fi. The Loyal Skeptic.
Here are visual examples of each type:
ESI-Se: https://imgur.com/GLztv2h
ESI-Fi: https://imgur.com/a/UnN1wJZ
What I'd like is a woman who is an ESI-Fi, but not e4, and I think I've just seen one in the linked video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m0LInUpCUQ
So, ladies, if you look like the Vitamix girl in the video, with a quietly observant but amused face, drop me a line. We should talk.
Buddy, buddy, all this socionics stuff, fuggeddaboutit.
Tap into your Sx instinct.
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