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Thread: Adventures in Dating

  1. #1161
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    I went back on Match today. My god, the number of women's faces that seem to be saying "My life sucks and it's your fault", or "My life sucks and it's your job to fix it."

    Only a few who look like: "I'm having a good time and I want to share it."

    Damn. I'm going to be single for the rest of my life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I went back on Match today. My god, the number of women's faces that seem to be saying "My life sucks and it's your fault", or "My life sucks and it's your job to fix it."

    Only a few who look like: "I'm having a good time and I want to share it."

    Damn. I'm going to be single for the rest of my life.
    Yeah I agree I wouldn't want to feel that much pressure trying to heal damage. A bit of it is ofc to be expected, but that look would just say to me "I'm not ready to be dating yet until I work on myself and find self love again".

    Other wise you are just filling the rescuer dynamic and that isn't sustainable, nor anything I'm in the mood for. Equal partnerships, brothers in arms, facing the world, both looking outwards but standing shoulder to shoulder.

    We have counselling and 500,000 self help blogs for everything else.

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    Ive been seeing a guy for a couple of hookups and a few afternoon dates hiking.

    Turns out he is on network television and gets 10,000 instagram likes. Think Chris Hemsworth level in looks. I'm not so much intimidated as I am wondering ultimately what he sees for us? I feel a little hot and cold from him and I promised myself after my addict ex, that I would never want to reexperience blowing hot and cold again (I'm talking toxic, clinical levels here, not normal healthy dynamics). Is relationships between gay men always going to be just tall ships passing each other on an open sea?

    I've only said the like word and after our shared time I'm pretty sure he knows how I feel. We are compatible on so many levels. I could develop strong feelings for him. I'm wise enough not to unless there is more to our story.

    God dating and the uncertainty it brings really sucks. :/ I have no doubt how I feel, but can I trust what I'm seeing after having my trust broken so many times before?

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    A female ILE contacted me today on Match, saying she read my "bio" and laughed out loud.

    For the record, what I wrote in that Match bio is essentially what I wrote about myself in a thread on this forum. I think it was called "Why would someone date you?", or something like that. Basically, it was a factual description of me, saying I want to date an ESI.

    The female ILE looked pretty good. She has dogs and horses, and is brilliant. She works here in town in a bio lab and travels all over the world. She'd be great for me if she weren't an ILE.

    My ESI-Se interior decorator told me that I should date people other than ESIs, but she's 28 and I've got a few years and many GFs on her, so thanks, but no thanks. I don't have to hit my thumb with a hammer more than once to know that it's not good for me.

    It's not as if I've never dated other types. I've dated two LSIs, three IEIs, an LII (it was the worst), an EII, an ILI, an SLI, numerous women whose type is a mystery because I wasn't typing people then, and five ESIs. I get along with the ESIs most effortlessly, and in the most areas. Is that a coincidence?

    My problem is that, having decided that the best car for me is a 1991 Mercedes 560 SEC*, finding one without too much rust, major mechanical problems, an interior which is in good shape, and a complete record of regular maintenance is really hard to do.
    So far, all I've found are vehicles which require a huge amount of repair work because they were used, abused, and neglected.

    *

    https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-sp...6-560-SEC.html

    This car weighs 4000 lbs, is built like a tank, and rubberbands through highway traffic. I have seen 17 mpg on it once, when I was driving on the highway with a very strong tail wind. In town, it's more like 7-9 MPG on premium gas.

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    I have been reading more dating advice on the internet (sure, why not? What could go wrong with taking advice from strangers on the internet?), and one woman recommended that men should date only women who are happy.

    Her reasoning was that men want to make women happy, but no one can make a person happy if they are constantly pissed at the world. I agree with that.

    To that bit of wisdom, I'd add that you should not date a person if they do not have a Secure attachment style. An insecure attachment style is another thing that isn't changeable. You can accept a non-secure attachment style in another person, and all the bullshit that goes along with it, but why would you want to do that? Unless, of course, you hate yourself and want validation of the idea that you are worthless.

    Of course, if you are older than age thirty and you aren't already married to a Secure person, you are basically fucked. All the Secures are locked up in secure, happy relationships at that point, and all who are left are the crazies. Better start hanging out at funerals and introduce yourself to the widows, and hope for the best.

  6. #1166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I have been reading more dating advice on the internet (sure, why not? What could go wrong with taking advice from strangers on the internet?), and one woman recommended that men should date only women who are happy.
    @Adam Strange I think you have to look 'within'. When I said to Rebelondeck that I wanted a partner to 'take the pressure off', he said to me that can only come from within.

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    As most people here are tired of hearing me say it, I type mostly by VI. And most of my social interactions are spent collecting data points for VI.

    This morning, I was in a coffee shop and the woman in line in front of me was a young blond who had the healthy athleticism of an ESI. She was clearly an SF and just as clearly not a delicate and refined SEI, but rather was the hearty and healthy ESI variety of ISFx.

    As I was watching her face, she slipped into an expression which was identical to one that my last ESI GF had, and is an expression which I've seen on no one else. It could be that I just was never looking for it before I noticed it on my last GF, but I assume that it could be indicative of them sharing some particular feature.

    After all, that's how VI works, kids. Your personality comes out of your face.

    My last ESI GF was just about perfect, and if she hadn't been sexually selfish (which might be a concrete expression of her Dismissive-Avoidant attachment style), I'd still be seeing her.

    Now my question to myself is, "Does the sharing of that one facial expression mean that they share good traits, or bad?" She left the coffee shop before I could talk to her. Maybe next time.

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    Remember when I put I was looking for an estp on my profile and then took it down? Well, eventually I did get some good matches. I wouldn’t recommend that..the app seemed to start working when I ignored it a bit, also went on some pretty weird dates before that. I think it’s true what they say about sneaky semi duals however, like I do sometimes think about the SEE who unmatched me, but I think I just wasn’t ready. I think we are also attracted to people like our opposite sex parent (for straight people, same for gay people too but with same sex(?). My dad is Istp which isn’t far off from Estp. In terms of vibe. Also, talking to duals is not easy, but it shouldn’t be that hard either.
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 05-25-2024 at 06:13 PM.

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    do any dating apps let you search profiles by keyword? It would make finding a dual much easier if they did. I know there’s one called boo that does but I don’t think many people use it. OKCupid used to, but they removed that feature

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    Sad, beautiful, tragic love affair..

  11. #1171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ...More recently, I have been actively looking for ESIs, and I've been finding them, but I've been running into the problem that is clearly stated in the book "Bad Boyfriends", which is that, if you aren't attached in a relationship by the age of thirty, then you might have a problem being attached in a relationship. It's not a problem that I have, but it is a problem that the women I meet seem to have.

    Plus, I'm also very particular.

    I want an ESI woman who is attractive, intelligent, sensible, grounded, family-oriented, stable, slightly submissive and slightly aggressive. Pick any ten.
    OK, so I don't have a problem being Securely Attached, but instead, I have the problem of having lists of the characteristics that I want in a woman, and my list has been consistently missing something.

    When I was eleven or twelve years old, I had a list of characteristics which I wanted in a wife. She had to be about my height (good for kissing), she had to be thin, intelligent, have red hair and work in a scientific field which was not Astronomy (no stepping on my toes) but she had to be interested in Astronomy.

    I looked for this woman relentlessly for the next eighteen years, and I finally found her, and married her. As a bonus, she and I had similar world views and were similarly attractive, and we had similar earning power. I was in Heaven.

    What my list was missing was that she not be my Supervisor.

    After the divorce, my list of physical characteristics shrank a bit, but it now included that she be a Dual ESI.

    Well, I found an ESI who met most of my list requirements, but she was Dismissive-Avoidant.

    After the breakup, I've been licking my wounds and wondering what the hell is going wrong. I've been watching YouTube videos to try to get some better understanding of what I need.

    One thing I should admit is that, if I'm doing so poorly at finding a good mate, there is a really good chance that I have some serious problems to which I'm blind. But how can we know what we don't know?

    Anyway, I ran across this video yesterday.



    Personally, I think that Sadia Khan is a bit off, for recommending that men choose women who are too submissive for my taste, but her recommendation that I look for a woman who wants to be with me is a revelation to me. I've never tried that before.

    Of all the women in my life, the only ones who seem to value me, for me, are ESIs, and the only one who seeks out my company on a regular basis is the interior decorator I've known for twelve years, who had really caring and perceptive parents.

    I'm gonna be 150 years old before I get this right.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-01-2024 at 05:22 AM.

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    OK, so I have the problem that Sadia Khan talks about in the video below. I have found golddiggers, and I don't have the time, talent, or experience to properly vet good women.



    I don't think Sadia Khan has the final solution for me, but she has a lot of good points to consider.

    At around 9:30 in the video, her description of sex workers reminds me of Amy Winehouse. Amy Winehouse was always talking about being no good, and being the "other woman". I'm not suggesting that Amy Winehouse was a sex worker, but rather that she might have had that view of the men in her life.

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    This video isn't a perfect description of my ex-wife, but it's not wrong. When I discovered, at the point in the divorce where the assets are divided, that my SLI wife had been putting away money into her secret account all during our marriage (she said it was HER money!) I naively attributed her behavior to her being a resource-hoarding SLI. Not an asshole.
    I should add that my ex was way better at hiding money away than the women in the video.

    God, when am I going to wise up?

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RcoK9sTq3LQ

    The comments on that video are very entertaining.

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    I typed Sadia IEI-ni. Reminds me of Gabor Mate (ESI-fi?) even though she seems more conservative.

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    we aren’t dating but i have a crush on my SLI friend. first person i ever felt anything towards and i’ve been thugging it out for months since he’s unavailable, but we’re too good of friends to break off what we have. i can’t choose who i have a crush on though if only it were that easy. i’ve genuinely never felt any romantic attraction towards anyone before. and i think he’s cute as a bonus. i’ve never felt sexual attraction either and still don’t to anyone but i feel like if that were to ever change, he’d be the one.

    i just wish he’d wise up instead of locking himself to someone he can never realistically meet in person while i can see him any time. he deserves better. we’re both touch starved. i know he’s likely doing it to feel safe though. all i can do is give us time.
    the people i’ve told the details of my situation (who go figure were two ESEs and my wonderful ESI mom) say i have a good chance with him. i don’t want to get into too much detail but i’m inclined to agree based on my position here. i just don’t want to make him feel conflicted or manipulate him into anything. he trusts me implicitly, something he’s said upfront to me, and i want to honor that. when push comes to shove though i might need to make the first move though if i were to admit my feelings towards him. he’s a 9 if that explains anything.

    i actually did tell him the day i realized i was capable of feeling romantic attaction, but i don’t think he put together that he was the person in question. though, that would actually be a good starting point to go off of if i ever were to confess in the future. “so remember all those months ago when i told you i just developed a crush for the first time in my life?”

    i feel like a little ant crawling on adam’s thread of indomitable relational experience, it’s so funny. an inert subtype LIE sx8 and contact subtype LII so5 are vastly different archetypes and yet i still see similarities in how we metabolize relationships and attraction, explained by LII and LIE sharing potential and kinetic blocks. really good example of why i find socionics is so fascinating.
    “You'll feel safest of all, you can only receive, it'll keep you stable for days in cars.”
    —me as Gary Numan as a therapist

    -Ne
    5w4 514 so/sp

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    I want someone weak, useless, and lazy that I can do all the work for because it motivates me to survive and actually do things (has to be cute though).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosConductor6669 View Post
    I want someone weak, useless, and lazy that I can do all the work for because it motivates me to survive and actually do things (has to be cute though).
    Seems like a common theme I hear from the opposite sex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Seems like a common theme I hear from the opposite sex.
    Something something hunter-gatherers and high-risk emergency situations.

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    The older I get, the more I believe in things that I don't understand.

    Guys, have you ever found yourself watching an attractive woman from a distance, and then had her turn and look around, as if she could feel someone looking at her?

    Today, I was shopping for a short list of things at Kroger's during the off-hours and I suddenly crossed paths with a woman who looked like a 95% overlay of the ESI-Se interior decorator whom I've hired to redo my house, and with whom I'm in limerance. Hell, I'm in love with my interior decorator, and she's a lesbian, FML.

    I saw this woman approaching with her cart, saw that she looked nearly identical to the ESI interior decorator, looked at her face, and did my best to not react in any way. I'm shopping. I'm dead. I'm not seeing anything special. She glanced at me and was past in a moment.

    While I was picking up the frozen spinach, I was thinking about the fact that both the woman I just saw, and the interior decorator, can dress to give the impression that they have no money but they are authentic as hell. This might be the defining ESI trait.

    While I was examining the ice cream in the empty aisle, I found a brand that advertised itself as being made from real ice cream. Great, I thought, examining the ingredients. What are all the others made from? And I looked down the aisle and there she was, standing by her cart, looking studiously at the frozen yogurt selections.

    She hadn't been watching me. No, of course not. She'd had no reason to.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosConductor6669 View Post
    Something something hunter-gatherers and high-risk emergency situations.
    something something, ESTp

  21. #1181
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    I just took a week off work to spend time chasing an eclipse in Texas. I usually do this with my ILI lawyer travel buddy, and this time, he brought his ESI-Se wife and his thirty-something ESI-Se nephew. The ILI is the youngest sibling in his family and the nephew is the son of the oldest, so our age differences aren’t that great.

    The ESI-Se nephew is just going through a divorce from his SEI wife, whom he tells me is certifiably crazy. I asked the ESI-Se about his family, and he described his dad (with pictures for confirmation) as an unstable guy whom I typed as LII. So, he married an SEI Alpha who was better than his LII Alpha father, but who could dish out a similar level of abuse. That is, until he decided he’d had enough and is suing for divorce. He’s pretty emotionally broken up about it, because they have kids and he’s an ESI feeler, so I decided to point him in the right direction, towards an LIE partner, using Socionics.

    On a week-long vacation for an eclipse that lasts less than seven minutes, there is a lot of time to kill. The four of us went to lots and lots of touristy places and I explained Socionics to him whenever he and I had a chance to talk.

    At first, he was listening politely but was skeptical. I described female LIEs and used myself as an example of a LIE Dual, particularly describing myself as a person who is completely different from him but who is also completely compatible. He had a chance to experience duality with me, which was very helpful, but I’m not female and he’s not gay, so the comparison is not perfect.

    I was wishing that I had an example of a female LIE when, out of the blue, we were at the Riverwalk in San Antonio looking for a place to eat along with the other three or four hundred people there, and there she was. A female LIE, booking customers into a restaurant. She had white white skin and long, black black hair and red red lips and was dressed all in black and she was about 18 years old, but I figured that he could extrapolate her age to that of someone whom he could date. She had the basics; she was in the middle of a crowd and she looked like she was alone, and she had that “I see you but I don’t need you” look. I pointed her out to him. He looked past my shoulder at her, laughed goofily, and kind of bounced around like some male ESIs do (he looks like a young Paul Newman), but he didn’t approach her.


    I said, “Dude, this is your chance. Get some experience. Go up to her and say something. Anything.”
    The ESI-Se looked at me (he’s aware that I’m looking for a female ESI) and said “Unlike you, I’m not desperate. The way I look at it, if it happens, it happens. I don’t need to go out of my way to approach women.”
    Well, I thought, good luck with that approach.
    We all went inside and had dinner.

    Later, I told him that, while ESIs are about sixteen percent of the population, LIEs are closer to two-and-a-half percent, and female LIEs are rarer still. Female LIEs, in my experience, are about one in 200 people. I know about twenty-seven male LIEs, and four female LIEs, so if he’s going to find someone who is both supportive and easy to get along with, he’s going to have to ditch the “date anyone” approach and zero in on dating effectively. He seemed entirely unconcerned when I told him this.
    Well, as a guy with an unhealthy Super-Ego father, and an unhealthy Quasi-Identical wife, and a young daughter who told him “I hate you. I want you to die”, he probably has no idea what a good relationship is like.

    Over the next few days, as you would expect with four people in constant contact, there were incidents and accidents. There were hints and allegations. There was friction and resolution, and at one point, after a particular clash in which he and I were on opposite sides of the problem but still were able to resolve it, he sat down and said to me, “I can see why it would be good to have someone around who has completely opposite views, as long as you can reach a compromise with them.”
    “Yeah,” I said. “That’s Duality, dude.”

    The next day, we were on a tour of an underground cavern with about a hundred and fifty other people, and our tour guide was his Conflictor, a male ILE. The ESI-Se leaned over to me shortly after the tour started and asked me what type I thought the tour guide was.
    “He’s your Conflictor,” I said.
    “God, I can’t stand that guy. I spoke to him for less than a minute, and I think he doesn’t like me, either. You can tell, when you get a reaction from someone, when they don’t like you.”
    Lol.
    I pointed him towards a tall, slender woman in the crowd. She was actually more solid-looking than slender, and moved like she was a bit clumsy. She had white white skin and long, black black hair and wasn’t wearing lipstick but was dressed all in black. Her face was serious and square and she looked emotionally flat-lined, and I said, “That woman. I think she’s your Dual.”
    He whispered back, “She was checking me out while we were waiting to get into the caverns.”
    I hadn’t noticed that, but evidently, he did notice it.

    I watched her for a while, and discovered that she was actually with a guy who was less attractive than she was. I watched him for a while and realized that he was an LSI. The weird thing was, they didn’t seem to be together most of the time. They were both keeping about ten feet apart on the tour, but every once in a while, they’d come together and the female LIE would completely transform. She got a radiant smile on her face and held out her phone to take a selfie of both of them, and she did this several times during the tour, so I concluded that they were together.

    The tour was almost two hours long, and during that time, the female LIE would drift, by herself, over to the four of us, and particularly to the male ESI-Se. She never smiled, never spoke, and never made eye contact. Eventually, she positioned herself right in front of the ESI-Se when we were going single file through the cavern. She didn’t look at him, she didn’t say anything to him, but she was orbiting him. The LSI was nowhere to be seen most of this time.


    The ESI-Se didn’t make any moves towards her, but instead, started acting more goofy and upbeat than he normally was. It was very interesting for me to watch this.

    Eventually, we all exited the caverns. The female LIE and her LSI man joined up and they walked straight ahead towards the parking lot, while the ESI-Se and I, and the ILI and his wife, turned ninety degrees and headed for the coffee shop. I figured that we had seen the last of the female LIE, but I was wrong.

    While the ILI and his wife were in the restrooms, the ESI-Se sat down at a table in the back of the coffee shop while I took up a position near the entrance where the ILI could see me and we could all join the ESI-Se at his table. Suddenly, the female LIE appeared in the coffee shop entrance, surveyed the tables, saw my ESI-Se friend alone at his table, and headed straight towards him.
    OK, so she was hunting him, and I had never before seen an LIE hunt.
    Weirdly enough, she walked straight past the ESI-Se to study a poster behind his table. Then the LSI appeared out of nowhere and followed her into the coffee shop.

    The ILI and his wife reappeared and the three of us made our way over to the ESI-Se’s table, where he was lounging back in his chair with a big grin on his face, doing a Matthew McConaughey cowboy imitation. We sat down and the female LIE finally exited the building with the LSI trailing along, never, it seemed to me, having looked directly at any of us.

    I looked at the ESI-Se and we both burst out laughing.
    I said, “I have never seen an LIE hunt before. That guy she’s with is a Zombie.”
    “What do you mean?”
    “He’s dead and he doesn’t know it.”

    So, two things:

    One, with both of my LSI girlfriends, the sex together was fantastic and we didn’t look like we were a couple in public. Seeing the female LIE and the male LSI together, I have to conclude that that kind of behavior is a feature of the LIE-LSI Mirage relationship.

    Two, the ESI-Se thinks that female LIEs are a dime a dozen because he met two in four days.

    He is wrong. He is so, so wrong.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-14-2024 at 03:57 AM.

  22. #1182
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    Money is an amplifier. It makes competent people more competent, incompetent people dead, and generally serves to amplify what's already there.

    Actual things that women I've dated have said to me, upon learning that I have money:

    The resource-hoarding SLI: "That's my money. It's all my money."

    The social-status-conscious LSI: "I could get used to this."

    The beautiful and insidious IEI: "I'm good at sex. I'm really good at sex."

    The ever-doubting ESI: "Is that your house?" (Because I don't believe you for a minute, and it looks way better than anything that you could ever manage.)

    The morally correct helper EII: "Hah!" She sounded pleased for me, and was entirely uninterested in the money itself.

    The logic-machine ILI: I didn't date her long enough for her to know about my finances.

    I haven't dated an SEI or an LII, despite knowing several. However, I have the strong opinion that, with the LIIs, money goes in and doesn't come out again. I have no data for the SEIs.

    I didn't date her, but the bossy LSE said: "You should give that money to me."
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-15-2024 at 01:35 PM.

  23. #1183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    OK, so I have the problem that Sadia Khan talks about in the video below. I have found golddiggers, and I don't have the time, talent, or experience to properly vet good women.
    .
    reveal things about urself that arent ways to make money or how wealthy you are, things that ppl can connect with, without being awkward. make pamphlets advertising urself and hire teenagers to make fun tiktok edits about yourself to draw the right women in. worst comes to worst make a dating app, add tag filters (for ppl's self description) and a search option for them + forum function + let other ppl vote and add tags to people's accounts to see their opinions, in case someone is a gold digger but doesnt admit it so someone else figures it out and votes her, then u check his acc to see if he doesnt seem untrustworthy. better yet make the app have reels and video options too.

    most important is to believe in Jesus cuz the point of marriage is to honor God.

    negative: war is coming up maybe and and AI revolution, everyhting can become faker. the only ways to meet ppl are internet and travel. id like ppl to be more active irl wihtout being so messed up to kill and beat each other right. we need an infrastructure where ppl dont need to be rotting fat in their cars and getting diseases
    https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
    Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals

    self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective


    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality

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    if I was better you’d be better

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  24. #1184
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    Man, I see a friend of mine making a bad Socionics choice for a mate, and I can't say anything to them.

    If I criticize their choice, and the relationship works out, then I'm the bad guy. If I criticize their choice and it doesn't work out, I'm still the bad guy for jinxing the relationship.

    I want to help the person because I care about them, but I have to remind myself that we all have to make our own life choices.

    It's best to say nothing and instead, just offer unconditional support, if and when it is asked for.

  25. #1185
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    Back when I discovered the island of Socionics, and when every facet of it was a bright pebble on the beach, I wanted to share my discoveries with everyone.

    I stupidly told everyone I know what I thought their type was, and what I thought the type of everyone around them was, and how Socionics predicted that they would get along with other people.

    Now, a female ESI, who is married to an ILI, is having problems dealing with upcoming changes in her professional life, and is looking for someone to blame, and she's looking at the ILI and at me.

  26. #1186
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    Yesterday, I had lunch in Ann Arbor at The Real Seafood Company with a financial guy, and our server was a stunningly beautiful ESI. Actually, when we walked into the restaurant, I said to the greeter, "We'd like your most beautiful waitress to be our server. That woman over there." Lol. He walked over to her, said something in her ear, then showed us to our table. She came over with menu pads and a knowing smile, but didn't overdo it.

    If I learned that I had one year to live, I'd ask her to marry me and have kids. But, because I think I'll live forever, I said nothing about this to her.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-19-2024 at 01:55 PM.

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    I have seen several IEI-ILE marriages, and they all crashed and burned. It is a Mirage relationship, and I completely understand the pull and the push that a Mirage relationship entails.

    Back when I was married to my SLI ex, we had a friend-couple who were female IEI and male ILE. They divorced, then we divorced, but all of us are still on reasonably good terms with our ex's and with each other. After all, we all have kids as a result of our marriages. You can lose a spouse, but you can't lose a kid.

    The ILE traveled out of the country for twenty years, and recently moved back to the States and is staying, temporarily, with his ex-wife, the IEI. Before he returned, the ILE and I talked about being single and what might be the ideal match for each of us. He basically described a woman who was a kindergarten teacher as his ideal match. I described an ESI.
    I then asked him how relations were between him and his IEI ex-wife?

    He said that she is the smartest woman he's ever met. (She's a lawyer for the University here in town. The University uses her to fire their employees, because her overwhelming empathy keeps the employees from going nuts while she's ramming a broomstick up their asses.) He said that, when he was describing the Linux operating system, she asked which flavor of Linux he was using. Since ILEs are the smartest people in the Universe, he admires smart women. This seeking for Identical traits is the lure and the trap.
    I asked him what he thought she saw in him, and he laughed nervously and said that she told him that he "keeps life interesting" for her.

    But is this enough for a long-term, day-to-day relationship?

    I just called him this morning, now that he's back and is living (for the summer only) with his IEI ex. He sounded confused and uncertain on the phone. Kind of like the way you might feel if you were living in a stranger's house. A stranger who didn't particularly appreciate your presence.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-19-2024 at 01:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Actually, when we walked into the restaurant, I said to the greeter, "We'd like your most beautiful waitress to be our server. That woman over there."
    Bruh .

  29. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    This video isn't a perfect description of my ex-wife, but it's not wrong. When I discovered, at the point in the divorce where the assets are divided, that my SLI wife had been putting away money into her secret account all during our marriage (she said it was HER money!) I naively attributed her behavior to her being a resource-hoarding SLI. Not an asshole.
    I should add that my ex was way better at hiding money away than the women in the video.

    God, when am I going to wise up?

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RcoK9sTq3LQ

    The comments on that video are very entertaining.
    If you both earn good money, it's always for the best to have completely separate accounts / assets (me and my wife do). Of course if something bad happens you lend money or stuff to each other, my wife stays in my apt for free and I stay in her summer house for free and she uses my car for free etc. I think it's easier this way...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  30. #1190
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    I'm old and married but I have to share this because it was truly bizzarre lol.
    When I was 19 - I lived in Treviso, 30 kms from the beach. I was working and studying but I had some random free days during the week. One day I met a random group of girls etc. etc. well there was one shy girl I started talking with, maybe ESI, we went swimming together for a bit just having fun and well...we had sex in the water lol. Never seen her again.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  31. #1191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Cross-posting here, because it applies:

    I was with an ESI dual for just over three years. We were perfect sub-type matches, her ESI-Fi to my LIE-Te, and great enneagram matches, her e6 to my e8. But I just broke it off.

    She liked me, and told me that she needed my help from time to time, and we were definitely sexually compatible, but she really didn't seem all that interested in being in a relationship. She just didn't reach out.



    I'm not sure if she just wasn't alert to the fact that some people can be Duals. Plus, her mother and father were both Aphas. (Her father was a philandering ESE, and her mother was either LII or, possibly, LII, her older sister was LSI and her older brother was SLI, so she was an all-alone Gamma in enemy territory. Her parents constantly criticized her, and that bent the twig pretty far.)
    She'd had two very unsuccessful marriages, the first to an SEE and the second to an LSI, so she had no idea what life with an LIE could be like, and didn't seem to be interested in (or capable of) finding out.

    Oh, well.

    Next!
    You must read Jung in its original version. dominant types are never too close to the object of their affection. I think you can read german:

    "Das Primat des introvertierten Fühlens habe ich hauptsächlich bei Frauen angetroffen. Das Sprichwort[S. 557] „Stille Wasser gründen tief“, gilt von diesen Frauen. Sie sind meist still, schwer zugänglich, unverständlich, öfters hinter einer kindlichen oder banalen Maske verborgen, öfters auch von melancholischem Temperament. Sie scheinen nicht und treten nicht auf. Da sie sich überwiegend von ihrem subjektiv orientierten Gefühl leiten lassen, so bleiben ihre wahren Motive meistens verborgen. Nach aussen zeigen sie eine harmonische Unauffälligkeit, eine angenehme Ruhe, einen sympathischen Parallelismus, der den andern nicht veranlassen, beeindrucken oder gar bearbeiten und verändern will. Ist diese Aussenseite etwas ausgeprägter, so drängt sich ein leiser Verdacht von Indifferenz und Kühle auf, der sich bis zu dem der Gleichgültigkeit für das Wohl und Wehe der andern verstärken kann. Man fühlt dann deutlich die vom Objekt sich abwendende Gefühlsbewegung. Beim normalen Typus tritt dieser Fall allerdings nur dann ein, wenn das Objekt in irgend einer Weise zu stark einwirkt. Die harmonische Gefühlsbegleitung findet darum nur solange statt, als das Objekt in mittlerer Gefühlslage sich auf seinem eigenen Wege bewegt und den Weg des andern nicht zu durchkreuzen sucht. Eigentliche Emotionen des Objektes werden nicht begleitet, sondern gedämpft und abgewehrt oder besser gesagt „abgekühlt“ mit einem negativen Gefühlsurteil. Obschon stets eine Bereitschaft zu einem ruhigen und harmonischen Nebeneinandergehen vorhanden ist, so zeigt sich dem fremden Objekt gegenüber keine Liebenswürdigkeit, kein warmes Entgegenkommen, sondern eine indifferent erscheinende, kühle bis abweisende Art. Man bekommt gelegentlich die Überflüssigkeit der eigenen Existenz zu fühlen. Gegen etwas Mitreissendes, Enthusiastisches beobachtet dieser Typus zunächst eine wohlwollende Neutralität, bisweilen mit einem leisen Zug von Überlegenheit und Kritik, der einem empfindsamen Objekt leicht den Wind aus den Segeln nimmt. Eine anstür[S. 558]mende Emotion aber kann mit mörderischer Kälte schroff abgeschlagen werden, wenn sie nicht zufälligerweise das Individuum vom Unbewussten her erfasst, d. h. mit andern Worten irgend ein urtümliches Gefühlsbild belebt und damit das Fühlen dieses Typus gefangen nimmt. Wenn dieser Fall eintritt, so empfindet eine solche Frau einfach eine momentane Lähmung, gegen die sich später unfehlbar ein umso heftigerer Widerstand erhebt, welcher das Objekt an der verwundbarsten Stelle erreichen wird. Die Beziehung zum Objekt wird möglichst in einer ruhigen und sichern Mittellage des Gefühls gehalten unter hartnäckiger Verpönung der Leidenschaft und ihrer Ungemessenheit. Der Gefühlsausdruck bleibt daher spärlich und das Objekt fühlt dauernd seine Minderbewertung, wenn es deren bewusst wird. Dies ist allerdings nicht immer der Fall, indem der Fehlbetrag sehr oft unbewusst bleibt, dafür aber mit der Zeit infolge unbewussten Gefühlsanspruches Symptome entwickelt, welche eine vermehrte Aufmerksamkeit erzwingen sollen. Da dieser Typus meist kühl und reserviert erscheint, so spricht ihm ein oberflächliches Urteil leicht jedes Gefühl ab. Das ist aber grundfalsch, indem die Gefühle zwar nicht extensiv, sondern intensiv sind. Sie entwickeln sich in die Tiefe. Während z. B. ein extensives Mitleidsgefühl sich an passender Stelle mit Worten und Taten äussert und sich bald von diesem Eindruck wieder befreien kann, verschliesst sich ein intensives Mitleid vor jedem Ausdruck und gewinnt eine leidenschaftliche Tiefe, welche das Elend einer Welt in sich begreift und daran erstarrt. Es mag vielleicht im Übermass herausbrechen und zu einer verblüffenden Tat sozusagen heroischen Charakters führen, zu der aber weder das Objekt noch das Subjekt ein richtiges Verhältnis finden können. Nach aussen und dem blinden Auge des Extravertierten erscheint dieses Mitleid als Kälte, denn es tut nichts Sichtbares, und an unsichtbare Kräfte vermag ein extra[S. 559]vertiertes Bewusstsein nicht zu glauben. Dieses Missverständnis ist ein charakteristisches Vorkommnis im Leben dieses Typus und wird in der Regel registriert als ein wichtigstes Argument gegen jede tiefere Gefühlsbeziehung zum Objekte. Was aber der wirkliche Gegenstand dieses Fühlens ist, ist dem Normaltypus selbst nur ahnungsweise gegeben. Er drückt sein Ziel und seinen Inhalt vielleicht in einer verborgenen und vor profanen Augen ängstlich gehüteten Religiosität, oder in ebenso vor Überraschung gesicherten poetischen Formen vor sich selber aus, nicht ohne den geheimen Ehrgeiz, damit eine Überlegenheit über das Objekt zustande zu bringen. Frauen, die Kinder haben, legen vieles davon in diese, indem sie ihnen heimlich ihre Leidenschaftlichkeit einflössen.

    Obschon im Normaltypus die angedeutete Tendenz, das heimlich Gefühlte dem Objekt einmal offen und sichtbar überzuordnen oder überwältigend aufzuzwingen, keine störende Rolle spielt, und niemals zu einem ernstlichen Versuch in dieser Richtung führt, so sickert davon doch etwas in die persönliche Wirkung auf das Objekt durch, in Form eines oft schwer zu definierenden, dominierenden Einflusses. Es wird etwa als ein erdrückendes oder erstickendes Gefühl empfunden, das die Umgebung in einen Bann schlägt. Dadurch gewinnt dieser Typus eine gewisse geheimnisvolle Macht, welche namentlich den extravertierten Mann in höchstem Masse faszinieren kann, weil sie sein Unbewusstes berührt. Diese Macht stammt von den erfühlten, unbewussten Bildern, wird aber vom Bewusstsein leicht auf das Ich bezogen, wodurch der Einfluss verfälscht wird im Sinne der persönlichen Tyrannei. Wenn aber das unbewusste Subjekt mit dem Ich identifiziert wird, so wandelt sich auch die geheimnisvolle Macht des intensiven Gefühls in banale und anmassende Herrschsucht, Eitelkeit und tyrannische Zwän[S. 560]gerei. Daraus entsteht ein Typus Frau, der wegen seines skrupellosen Ehrgeizes und wegen seiner heimtückischen Grausamkeit unvorteilhaft bekannt ist. Diese Wendung führt aber in die Neurose.

    Solange das Ich sich unterhalb der Höhe des unbewussten Subjektes fühlt und das Gefühl Höheres und Mächtigeres erschliesst als das Ich, ist der Typus normal. Das unbewusste Denken ist zwar archaïsch, compensiert aber hilfreich durch Reduktionen die gelegentlichen Anwandlungen, das Ich zum Subjekt zu erheben. Tritt dieser Fall aber doch ein durch völlige Unterdrückung der reduzierenden unbewussten Denkeinflüsse, dann begibt sich das unbewusste Denken in die Opposition und projiziert sich in die Objekte. Damit bekommt das egozentrisch gewordene Subjekt die Macht und Bedeutung der entwerteten Objekte zu fühlen. Das Bewusstsein beginnt zu fühlen, „was die Andern denken“. Natürlich denken die Andern alle möglichen Gemeinheiten, planen Übles, hetzen und intriguieren im Geheimen, usw. Dem muss das Subjekt zuvorkommen, indem es selber anfängt, präventiv zu intriguieren und zu verdächtigen, auszuhorchen und zu kombinieren. Es wird von Gerüchten befallen und krampfhafte Anstrengungen müssen gemacht werden, um eine drohende Unterlegenheit womöglich in eine Überlegenheit zu verwandeln. Es entstehen endlose Rivalitäten geheimer Natur und in diesen erbitterten Kämpfen wird nicht nur kein schlechtes oder gemeines Mittel gescheut, sondern auch die Tugenden werden missbraucht, nur um einen Trumpf ausspielen zu können. Eine solche Entwicklung führt zur Erschöpfung. Die Neurosenform ist weniger hysterisch als neurasthenisch, bei Frauen oft mit starker Mitbeteiligung des körperlichen Zustandes, z. B. Anämie mit Folgezuständen."
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  32. #1192
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You must read Jung in its original version. dominant types are never too close to the object of their affection. I think you can read german:

    "Das Primat des introvertierten Fühlens habe ich hauptsächlich bei Frauen angetroffen. Das Sprichwort[S. 557] „Stille Wasser gründen tief“, gilt von diesen Frauen. Sie sind meist still, schwer zugänglich, unverständlich, öfters hinter einer kindlichen oder banalen Maske verborgen, öfters auch von melancholischem Temperament. Sie scheinen nicht und treten nicht auf. Da sie sich überwiegend von ihrem subjektiv orientierten Gefühl leiten lassen, so bleiben ihre wahren Motive meistens verborgen. Nach aussen zeigen sie eine harmonische Unauffälligkeit, eine angenehme Ruhe, einen sympathischen Parallelismus, der den andern nicht veranlassen, beeindrucken oder gar bearbeiten und verändern will. Ist diese Aussenseite etwas ausgeprägter, so drängt sich ein leiser Verdacht von Indifferenz und Kühle auf, der sich bis zu dem der Gleichgültigkeit für das Wohl und Wehe der andern verstärken kann. Man fühlt dann deutlich die vom Objekt sich abwendende Gefühlsbewegung. Beim normalen Typus tritt dieser Fall allerdings nur dann ein, wenn das Objekt in irgend einer Weise zu stark einwirkt. Die harmonische Gefühlsbegleitung findet darum nur solange statt, als das Objekt in mittlerer Gefühlslage sich auf seinem eigenen Wege bewegt und den Weg des andern nicht zu durchkreuzen sucht. Eigentliche Emotionen des Objektes werden nicht begleitet, sondern gedämpft und abgewehrt oder besser gesagt „abgekühlt“ mit einem negativen Gefühlsurteil. Obschon stets eine Bereitschaft zu einem ruhigen und harmonischen Nebeneinandergehen vorhanden ist, so zeigt sich dem fremden Objekt gegenüber keine Liebenswürdigkeit, kein warmes Entgegenkommen, sondern eine indifferent erscheinende, kühle bis abweisende Art. Man bekommt gelegentlich die Überflüssigkeit der eigenen Existenz zu fühlen. Gegen etwas Mitreissendes, Enthusiastisches beobachtet dieser Typus zunächst eine wohlwollende Neutralität, bisweilen mit einem leisen Zug von Überlegenheit und Kritik, der einem empfindsamen Objekt leicht den Wind aus den Segeln nimmt. Eine anstür[S. 558]mende Emotion aber kann mit mörderischer Kälte schroff abgeschlagen werden, wenn sie nicht zufälligerweise das Individuum vom Unbewussten her erfasst, d. h. mit andern Worten irgend ein urtümliches Gefühlsbild belebt und damit das Fühlen dieses Typus gefangen nimmt. Wenn dieser Fall eintritt, so empfindet eine solche Frau einfach eine momentane Lähmung, gegen die sich später unfehlbar ein umso heftigerer Widerstand erhebt, welcher das Objekt an der verwundbarsten Stelle erreichen wird. Die Beziehung zum Objekt wird möglichst in einer ruhigen und sichern Mittellage des Gefühls gehalten unter hartnäckiger Verpönung der Leidenschaft und ihrer Ungemessenheit. Der Gefühlsausdruck bleibt daher spärlich und das Objekt fühlt dauernd seine Minderbewertung, wenn es deren bewusst wird. Dies ist allerdings nicht immer der Fall, indem der Fehlbetrag sehr oft unbewusst bleibt, dafür aber mit der Zeit infolge unbewussten Gefühlsanspruches Symptome entwickelt, welche eine vermehrte Aufmerksamkeit erzwingen sollen. Da dieser Typus meist kühl und reserviert erscheint, so spricht ihm ein oberflächliches Urteil leicht jedes Gefühl ab. Das ist aber grundfalsch, indem die Gefühle zwar nicht extensiv, sondern intensiv sind. Sie entwickeln sich in die Tiefe. Während z. B. ein extensives Mitleidsgefühl sich an passender Stelle mit Worten und Taten äussert und sich bald von diesem Eindruck wieder befreien kann, verschliesst sich ein intensives Mitleid vor jedem Ausdruck und gewinnt eine leidenschaftliche Tiefe, welche das Elend einer Welt in sich begreift und daran erstarrt. Es mag vielleicht im Übermass herausbrechen und zu einer verblüffenden Tat sozusagen heroischen Charakters führen, zu der aber weder das Objekt noch das Subjekt ein richtiges Verhältnis finden können. Nach aussen und dem blinden Auge des Extravertierten erscheint dieses Mitleid als Kälte, denn es tut nichts Sichtbares, und an unsichtbare Kräfte vermag ein extra[S. 559]vertiertes Bewusstsein nicht zu glauben. Dieses Missverständnis ist ein charakteristisches Vorkommnis im Leben dieses Typus und wird in der Regel registriert als ein wichtigstes Argument gegen jede tiefere Gefühlsbeziehung zum Objekte. Was aber der wirkliche Gegenstand dieses Fühlens ist, ist dem Normaltypus selbst nur ahnungsweise gegeben. Er drückt sein Ziel und seinen Inhalt vielleicht in einer verborgenen und vor profanen Augen ängstlich gehüteten Religiosität, oder in ebenso vor Überraschung gesicherten poetischen Formen vor sich selber aus, nicht ohne den geheimen Ehrgeiz, damit eine Überlegenheit über das Objekt zustande zu bringen. Frauen, die Kinder haben, legen vieles davon in diese, indem sie ihnen heimlich ihre Leidenschaftlichkeit einflössen.

    Obschon im Normaltypus die angedeutete Tendenz, das heimlich Gefühlte dem Objekt einmal offen und sichtbar überzuordnen oder überwältigend aufzuzwingen, keine störende Rolle spielt, und niemals zu einem ernstlichen Versuch in dieser Richtung führt, so sickert davon doch etwas in die persönliche Wirkung auf das Objekt durch, in Form eines oft schwer zu definierenden, dominierenden Einflusses. Es wird etwa als ein erdrückendes oder erstickendes Gefühl empfunden, das die Umgebung in einen Bann schlägt. Dadurch gewinnt dieser Typus eine gewisse geheimnisvolle Macht, welche namentlich den extravertierten Mann in höchstem Masse faszinieren kann, weil sie sein Unbewusstes berührt. Diese Macht stammt von den erfühlten, unbewussten Bildern, wird aber vom Bewusstsein leicht auf das Ich bezogen, wodurch der Einfluss verfälscht wird im Sinne der persönlichen Tyrannei. Wenn aber das unbewusste Subjekt mit dem Ich identifiziert wird, so wandelt sich auch die geheimnisvolle Macht des intensiven Gefühls in banale und anmassende Herrschsucht, Eitelkeit und tyrannische Zwän[S. 560]gerei. Daraus entsteht ein Typus Frau, der wegen seines skrupellosen Ehrgeizes und wegen seiner heimtückischen Grausamkeit unvorteilhaft bekannt ist. Diese Wendung führt aber in die Neurose.

    Solange das Ich sich unterhalb der Höhe des unbewussten Subjektes fühlt und das Gefühl Höheres und Mächtigeres erschliesst als das Ich, ist der Typus normal. Das unbewusste Denken ist zwar archaïsch, compensiert aber hilfreich durch Reduktionen die gelegentlichen Anwandlungen, das Ich zum Subjekt zu erheben. Tritt dieser Fall aber doch ein durch völlige Unterdrückung der reduzierenden unbewussten Denkeinflüsse, dann begibt sich das unbewusste Denken in die Opposition und projiziert sich in die Objekte. Damit bekommt das egozentrisch gewordene Subjekt die Macht und Bedeutung der entwerteten Objekte zu fühlen. Das Bewusstsein beginnt zu fühlen, „was die Andern denken“. Natürlich denken die Andern alle möglichen Gemeinheiten, planen Übles, hetzen und intriguieren im Geheimen, usw. Dem muss das Subjekt zuvorkommen, indem es selber anfängt, präventiv zu intriguieren und zu verdächtigen, auszuhorchen und zu kombinieren. Es wird von Gerüchten befallen und krampfhafte Anstrengungen müssen gemacht werden, um eine drohende Unterlegenheit womöglich in eine Überlegenheit zu verwandeln. Es entstehen endlose Rivalitäten geheimer Natur und in diesen erbitterten Kämpfen wird nicht nur kein schlechtes oder gemeines Mittel gescheut, sondern auch die Tugenden werden missbraucht, nur um einen Trumpf ausspielen zu können. Eine solche Entwicklung führt zur Erschöpfung. Die Neurosenform ist weniger hysterisch als neurasthenisch, bei Frauen oft mit starker Mitbeteiligung des körperlichen Zustandes, z. B. Anämie mit Folgezuständen."
    Thanks, FDG. I see what you are saying or, rather, what Jung is saying.

    Jesus, Jung is a convoluted writer. He takes a thousand words to muddle through a simple idea.

    This is why I haven't read any of his books.

    I think it takes humanity a few years to understand and filter any really new concept into something that is generally agreed-upon, and that might be what is happening here. Jung tries to convey an idea that he has concerning the way people think, and since he is pioneering the field, he, himself, doesn't have a good way of talking about his thoughts.

    What should a flying machine look like? https://www.pilotmall.com/blogs/news...to-take-flight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Thanks, FDG. I see what you are saying or, rather, what Jung is saying.

    Jesus, Jung is a convoluted writer. He takes a thousand words to muddle through a simple idea.

    This is why I haven't read any of his books.

    I think it takes humanity a few years to understand and filter any really new concept into something that is generally agreed-upon, and that might be what is happening here. Jung tries to convey an idea that he has concerning the way people think, and since he is pioneering the field, he, himself, doesn't have a good way of talking about his thoughts.

    What should a flying machine look like? https://www.pilotmall.com/blogs/news...to-take-flight
    He's very convoluted but so used to be the academic german language at the time. Look at Kafka...
    I like his books but only the original version, the english translation is weird.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I'm back to scanning Match for Possibles.

    I messaged an ESI-Fi whose face I liked, saying that we might not seem to have a lot in common, but she seemed interesting to me and we should talk, and she looked at my profile twice and disappeared from Match.

    Match has some very weird people on it, but that includes me. I guess that most people are just weird.

    On another note, I just found an ESI-Se woman who looks exactly like my interior decorator, but who presumably isn't gay. I sent her a message. It's amazing how she and the interior decorator look alike, have the same interests, the same hobbies, hang out in the same places, are similarly challenged by the English language, and are looking for someone who can "Apologize when they are wrong, compromise, think about others before themself".

    (ESI-Se is not my best match, but the type seems easier to start a relationship with than the ESI-Fi. An ESI-Fi needs real-world contact for a long time before she admits her possible interest, maybe.)

    There are only 32 people in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm back to scanning Match for Possibles.

    I messaged an ESI-Fi whose face I liked, saying that we might not seem to have a lot in common, but she seemed interesting to me and we should talk, and she looked at my profile twice and disappeared from Match.

    Match has some very weird people on it, but that includes me. I guess that most people are just weird.

    On another note, I just found an ESI-Se woman who looks exactly like my interior decorator, but who presumably isn't gay. I sent her a message. It's amazing how she and the interior decorator look alike, have the same interests, the same hobbies, hang out in the same places, are similarly challenged by the English language, and are looking for someone who can "Apologize when they are wrong, compromise, think about others before themself".

    (ESI-Se is not my best match, but the type seems easier to start a relationship with than the ESI-Fi. An ESI-Fi needs real-world contact for a long time before she admits her possible interest, maybe.)

    There are only 32 people in the world.
    This is a paradox I have ran into myself. See, the dating apps are kinda the source of the problem. The people who use the dating apps are, well, the people who use the dating apps. That tends to mean loose women and playboys who are all suffering from massive attachment issues.

    The true problem, however, is that there's really no other choice right now if you want to date. Even if you successfully conquer your attachment issues you're left with a "well now what?" moment.

    You're secure, you know what to do and what to look out for, but then you have to actually meet other secure people. How? Dating apps? Pffff, fuck no. The whores and fuckbois have already learned how to emulate that shit just like the libertines of old and boy oh boy was THAT some raunchy stuff lemme tell ya. "Dangerous Liaisons" is a book and damned if it won't sound similar to the modern dating market.

    Church? I've tried (Catholic BTW). Every girl in my age range is wearing a ring. The only one's that aren't are 40+, likely widowed, and probably wonderful women but I want children that I fathered so they're right out sadly. They all follow the typical secure attachment pattern. They pair off and marry young and stay together for life. And "Christian" dating apps are just as bad as the regular ones. Tons of Single moms with ADD (All Different Daddies) thinking we're all a bunch of simps who will eagerly become "Captain Save a Ho". No we will not and we're insulted that you think so little of us you harlots!

    Friend Groups? Well, maybe 10 years ago but that's been "patched" as well. See, now people don't want to introduce you to their opposite sex friends because that might complicate the relationships they all have with each other. If I have a female friend I think you'd be great for and I introduce you two and you don't work out that complicates everything. Hell, even if it DOES work out things get more complicated and everyone under 40 is so cripplingly risk averse I feel them to be cowards and this is coming from an ILI. If anyone is risk-averse it's us! Why the hell do you think we spend so much time thinking up contingency plans? Fun?! Well, maybe a bit but mostly it's because it's a lot easier to risk something if you got plan D ready to go if A-C somehow fail!

    And this is ignoring the elephant in the room. The elephant that is the fact that (in the west at least) feminism has won total victory. Every aspect of our society caters to women at the expense of men and masculine interests. The "me too" movement destroyed the final hope of any securely attached man. That he could approach a woman who seemed interested in him, ask her out, and evaluate her behaviors on that date and be relatively certain if she was a lost cause or not. Now the attempt carries with it the non-zero percent chance of his life being destroyed with a sexual harassment charge.

    Thus the impasse I'm currently at. I have no idea how to resolve it but I do know this. Men will not tolerate this state of affairs forever. The 80-95 percent of men who have no options reproductively speaking *will* revolt. There will be a reckoning. I fear the women who live to see it will pine for a world where "A Handmaid's Tale" was defictionalized exactly as written (if they'll ever be allowed to learn how to do that ever again that is)...

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    A girl just called me asking me out for drinks. I feel badly because it's based on a misunderstanding. I had told a friend of hers I thought she was pretty, but didn't mean anything by it. I don't think we'd do particularly well together. She's ILI. I always struggle to talk to them IRL, especially female ones. This is going to go badly; I know it already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    A girl just called me asking me out for drinks. I feel badly because it's based on a misunderstanding. I had told a friend of hers I thought she was pretty, but didn't mean anything by it. I don't think we'd do particularly well together. She's ILI. I always struggle to talk to them IRL, especially female ones. This is going to go badly; I know it already.
    Her Dual is your Conflictor, so a deep, intimate relationship might not be in the cards. However, you might come out of this with an interesting friend.

    I know a few ILEs, and I don't seek out most of them, but there is one guy that I like and get along with. If we limit our time together to an hour or so, working on an interesting problem, we get along great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    This is a paradox I have ran into myself. See, the dating apps are kinda the source of the problem. The people who use the dating apps are, well, the people who use the dating apps. That tends to mean loose women and playboys who are all suffering from massive attachment issues.

    The true problem, however, is that there's really no other choice right now if you want to date. Even if you successfully conquer your attachment issues you're left with a "well now what?" moment.

    You're secure, you know what to do and what to look out for, but then you have to actually meet other secure people. How? Dating apps? Pffff, fuck no. The whores and fuckbois have already learned how to emulate that shit just like the libertines of old and boy oh boy was THAT some raunchy stuff lemme tell ya. "Dangerous Liaisons" is a book and damned if it won't sound similar to the modern dating market.

    Church? I've tried (Catholic BTW). Every girl in my age range is wearing a ring. The only one's that aren't are 40+, likely widowed, and probably wonderful women but I want children that I fathered so they're right out sadly. They all follow the typical secure attachment pattern. They pair off and marry young and stay together for life. And "Christian" dating apps are just as bad as the regular ones. Tons of Single moms with ADD (All Different Daddies) thinking we're all a bunch of simps who will eagerly become "Captain Save a Ho". No we will not and we're insulted that you think so little of us you harlots!

    Friend Groups? Well, maybe 10 years ago but that's been "patched" as well. See, now people don't want to introduce you to their opposite sex friends because that might complicate the relationships they all have with each other. If I have a female friend I think you'd be great for and I introduce you two and you don't work out that complicates everything. Hell, even if it DOES work out things get more complicated and everyone under 40 is so cripplingly risk averse I feel them to be cowards and this is coming from an ILI. If anyone is risk-averse it's us! Why the hell do you think we spend so much time thinking up contingency plans? Fun?! Well, maybe a bit but mostly it's because it's a lot easier to risk something if you got plan D ready to go if A-C somehow fail!

    And this is ignoring the elephant in the room. The elephant that is the fact that (in the west at least) feminism has won total victory. Every aspect of our society caters to women at the expense of men and masculine interests. The "me too" movement destroyed the final hope of any securely attached man. That he could approach a woman who seemed interested in him, ask her out, and evaluate her behaviors on that date and be relatively certain if she was a lost cause or not. Now the attempt carries with it the non-zero percent chance of his life being destroyed with a sexual harassment charge.

    Thus the impasse I'm currently at. I have no idea how to resolve it but I do know this. Men will not tolerate this state of affairs forever. The 80-95 percent of men who have no options reproductively speaking *will* revolt. There will be a reckoning. I fear the women who live to see it will pine for a world where "A Handmaid's Tale" was defictionalized exactly as written (if they'll ever be allowed to learn how to do that ever again that is)...
    Most of them chose the bear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    A girl just called me asking me out for drinks. I feel badly because it's based on a misunderstanding. I had told a friend of hers I thought she was pretty, but didn't mean anything by it. I don't think we'd do particularly well together. She's ILI. I always struggle to talk to them IRL, especially female ones. This is going to go badly; I know it already.
    Well she knows what she has to do at least. In order to find a good mate the woman has to be the one to initiate now.

    You don't know if it will end badly or not however. Again, it is Attachment that is the ultimate arbiter of success in interpersonal relationships. Even conflictors can work if they have secure attachment. You can learn to love one another. Love, as I have come to understand it at the end of this journey towards secure attachment, is a choice. You choose to love others and they choose to either accept or reject that love. Secure attachment is the ability to both give and receive love.

    Give her a shot. Bring up Attachment styles, what they are, how they manifest, and how you are willing to help her through whatever trauma she likely bears that keeps her from attaining secure attachment. Trust me us ILI's are just as capable of bonding over nerd shit as LII's are. Hell, one of my cousins is an LII and we get along great! Best conversations ever. Helps we're both north of 130 IQ so there's also that going for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Most of them chose the bear.
    There's a reason for that. A fellow ILI made a video about it:


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