Adventures in Dating

[Tallmo]

The crux of the issue for her is that she kept giving me Fe hints (“you live here?!?!” “You’re kidding right?”) and instead of using that opportunity to explain that I’m not a deadbeat and was working towards moving out, I was just insulted and confused and told her she could leave if she wanted to. Would you say I was being a dumb, clueless guy in that situation? I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a woman to want to know if you’re a deadbeat or not, but I just didn’t have the same bias against living in public housing (and a relatively tame one at that where I’ve never personally had issues. It’s a building full of elderly people and working families for the most part) that she does. I would’ve responded way better to an honest conversation about my goals and experience living there instead of shitting on it and expecting me to use it as a prompt to justify my existence to her

These things come up when dating, that's for sure. I try to be honest and direct without making a big deal about it. My very modest job and living space. Then I stand for who I am, that's always a good thing. But it's not always easy, sometimes I fail. Have I really accepted it myself? Dating is a lot about your public persona and one cannot escape that. Maybe your experience is a step towards becoming more comfortable with your situation? Can require some friction and suffering, which you just got.

[Bethany]

A week or so ago I matched with a cute guy but I acted a bit weirdly and he unmatched me. I thought he looked quite cool and got excited. Like the type of guy I’ve fallen for before that wasn’t right for me maybe

then I matched with another guy, the one I mentioned earlier in the thread and now I’m really nervous because he seems really nice and smart and normal

[Bethany]

@Averroes I think you know if she was being rude..Someone on here said that in illusionary relationships it’s often down to the maturity of the extrovert whether or not the relationship will start/work. Also, chemistry seems highly important in these relationships- with ILEs I think I know if I like them fairly quickly. I annoyed an ILE guy on an app who looked ok, we matched a couple of times and I ignored him a bit..he got annoyed in the end and unmatched me. I think Tallmo’s advice is good. Honestly, if you’re a genuinely nice guy, you probably should be with quite a nice, non-judgemental woman. EP/IP and EG/IJ relationships don’t seem that easy to get started. There can be some misunderstandings at first- not to say you should let EJs off the hook if they’re rude at first..but at the same time bear in mind that they might not be used to IJ/EJ interaction..

Using apps, whilst also having type knowledge whilst also learning about dating is a lot to contend with..but I have felt like I was moving forward..it’s not a waste of time

[AWellArmedCat]

@AWellArmedCat Yay, enjoy. I secretly hope she is SEI because I think lookalike can be one of the nicest ITR. Signs of being SEI..like to talk a lot about subjects they are confident in, like to rant/be negative, decent general knowledge and wisdom, find it hard to contextualise themselves in a situation, have a few beliefs they are very passionate and adamant about..adorable and hot..heart of a poet, enjoy oh also- they seem to care about people’s immediate safety..an interest in animals/nature/plants

She definitely behaves very caregiver-y. I was really surprised to come home and find the bed neatly made, clothes all folded and put away, and grocery shopping all done. She also found a new way to hang up the laundry so it dries faster (I don't have a dryer). For dinner she showed me how to make Japanese fried chicken ^^

I don't think I'm wired to expect caregiver behaviour so it really caught me off-guard, but I was grateful lol

She seems super Alpha overall. So does her family. Her mom is just chill and hanging out in the living room with their little dogs, snacking, drinking tea, and reading all day. Her dad spends all his spare time taking photos in nature. Her mom is like her twin too. She's a nurse and looks exactly like an older version of my girlfriend who is going to start work as a doctor soon. The Si of their household is palpable

[Bethany]

She also found a new way to hang up the laundry so it dries faster (I don't have a dryer). For dinner she showed me how to make Japanese fried chicken ^^

I love her. Sounds like a nice family too.

[Tallmo]

@AWellArmedCat Yay, enjoy. I secretly hope she is SEI because I think lookalike can be one of the nicest ITR. Signs of being SEI..like to talk a lot about subjects they are confident in, like to rant/be negative, decent general knowledge and wisdom, find it hard to contextualise themselves in a situation, have a few beliefs they are very passionate and adamant about..adorable and hot..heart of a poet, enjoy oh also- they seem to care about people’s immediate safety..an interest in animals/nature/plants

It's so funny that you have this firm belief in lookalike. I still don't see it, because I have never been able to connect with IEI, despite some decent superficial chemistry in the beginning. And my parents are ESI+LSI, and they have had some major communication problems and unrelatedness to each other. I still hope that you have seen something that I haven't, but I can't help thinking that maybe you don't know the SEIs well enough. But what do I know, maybe you have had great relations to SEI.

[Bethany]

It's so funny that you have this firm belief in lookalike. I still don't see it, because I have never been able to connect with IEI, despite some decent superficial chemistry in the beginning. And my parents are ESI+LSI, and they have had some major communication problems and unrelatedness to each other. I still hope that you have seen something that I haven't, but I can't help thinking that maybe you don't know the SEIs well enough. But what do I know, maybe you have had great relations to SEI.

Lol it's just my personal fave. The thing is I don't have great relationships with them actually, I'm too quiet for them. I do have an SEI friend but it's very business-like. It's not super easy. I think we tried hard with each other and just accepted that it's sometimes a bit awkward, and it doesn't matter because we both make an effort and sometimes it just feels super nice and interesting (I feel happy after seeing her, it's strange), plus we have friends in common. I worked with one SEI male for a year and that felt much more natural, we really got on..then I worked with another and we had intense superficial chemistry and it took us a long time to realise just how superficial it was. (Or simply way too intense, depending on how you look at it).

I can think of three lookalike couples who seem like decent couples, only one I know well. My brother lives with a lookalike friend too, and I observe people being friends with lookalikes. I'm not sure how common SEI/IEI friends are..I don't know it may be that it's an easier friendship if you don't have much of a subtype (because I have a little bit of a subtype at least), or just better between some types. It's funny I seem to have collected some matches recently- one is SEE, one is SEI..and they're just there...I couldn't talk much to the SEI because I knew we would get on and I decided the SEE seemed..more appealing. Is it a coincidence that I was looking for an SEI...(edit, I don't mean looking I mean looking out for) and I might have found one. I'm at the point where I'm like, right I am going to give it a go with someone. (I've also found a nice SLE but don't wanna talk about that lol). But yeah, maybe we are just destined to end up with certain types? I think I've always gone for duals and IPs because my dad is SLI..similar types. Maybe I like the idea of IP relations because I'm easy going...it's quite a friendly relation.

Socionics - the16types.info - Business Relations INFp and ISFp by Stratiyevskaya There is this article too...what I imagine about these couples is that they get into a nice rhythm, and it feels less awkward than at first. I can also picture people falling for lookalikes who aren't quite right for them..but staying with them anyway because it's not unbearable.

I admit I romanticise it, I think the more exciting lookalike matches probably aren't built to last....but then maybe some are, and maybe it's just that they aren't for me..

I also have two other SEI friends who I imagine I'll see every now and again, during my life. It's an interesting bond. It could be more of an SF/NF thing rather than lookalike specifically..

I think the stronger ITR are the ones that don't seem that interesting lol. Apart from dual. But the most important things is probably a good connection. I've matched with some ok IEIs/ at least one LSI...but something tells me it would be an easier life with an SEI. And though I have liked ILIs in the past, I think they'd make me dwell on my past problems too much.

Sorry kept editing and turned into an essay...

oh also I think for romance I only like SEI-fe..I find that really interesting. Similar to how I don't fancy EII men...I don't think I fancy SEI-si. (Hard to say for sure). They just seem almost like women or something, does that make sense? Not that I literally think of them as feminine, but that their energy is too similar to mine or something

[Leo]

You guys have to stop screwing around and start making babies.

[Leo]

The quality of women I attract on dating sites is terrible. They are all gross looking. The problem is that majority of pretty girls online arent't that pretty. They just select a couple of good pictures and that's it. I'm used to girls falling for me in real life. Not just the girls, but majority of girls and especially the pretty ones. "Leo, let's go clubbing, my sister is coming to town". They try and they fail. Funny thing. Today, I switched to international mode in Tinder. I got tens of obese young sluts from US. They were all pretty bad looking and none of them swiped on me. Haha, fucking losers. Who's gonna fuck them anyway.

[Bethany]

@one it’s not ‘surprisingly’, super-ego can be a very good ITR, especially if you are a well-balanced individual

my inner ILI is on a mission to spread the truth lol

[AWellArmedCat]

It's so funny that you have this firm belief in lookalike. I still don't see it, because I have never been able to connect with IEI, despite some decent superficial chemistry in the beginning. And my parents are ESI+LSI, and they have had some major communication problems and unrelatedness to each other. I still hope that you have seen something that I haven't, but I can't help thinking that maybe you don't know the SEIs well enough. But what do I know, maybe you have had great relations to SEI.

I'm kinda surprised you say this actually. I've never had any issues with SEIs before. They're a pretty hard type not to get along with I feel

[AWellArmedCat]

Day 10 of living together and so far so good! I don't think either of us are looking forward to her having to go back to Aomori City next week.

We were out at dinner the other night and she told me how much she likes that I'm not bothered by showing affection while we're out and she half-jokingly said she doesn't think she'll ever be able to date a Japanese guy again (Japanese guys are rather famously stereotyped as not even willing to be seen holding hands - just a stereotype to be sure, but she said her last boyfriend would absolutely never hold hands in public and it's more common than you might think here). I don't feel like I'm going overboard on the PDA, but apparently it's a lot for what she's used to.

Also yesterday she took me to the gym and I followed her workout routine. I don't think I've ever been to a gym before. I did taekwondo for many years in the US and took a few kendo classes here, but I've never been to an actual gym gym. Anyways, I learned that despite being the average height of a fifth grader she could probably carry me out of a burning building without any difficulty. Her workout nearly killed me

Anyways, here's another pic of her. This time in front of a Life Flight helicopter. She's the short one in the middle

LifeFlight-min.jpg

[Tallmo]

I'm kinda surprised you say this actually. I've never had any issues with SEIs before. They're a pretty hard type not to get along with I feel

If SEIs are easy to get along with as a type then that's not connected to the ITR. The ITR will manifest later. I don't have any issues with IEI either, it's just that we don't really connect despite of promising chemistry in the beginning.

[Bethany]

@AWellArmedCat do you know her subtype? I’m fascinated by SEI-fe in particular. I was at a rave earlier in the year and a young good looking lad kept following me around like a little kid following their sibling around, it confirmed all my beliefs that SEI-fes are my soul mates. Despite the age gap, there was instant connection. I would call it romantic but it’d feel a bit unethical lol

anyway I just realise it might be impolite to ask you about the subtype..but also happy for you, hope all is well

i am chit-chatting with a nice guy atm, and can’t wait to meet him, it feels positive..

also on SEI note, I am feeling grateful for my SEI-si friend, I have always thought she has a refreshing energy. Also a boyishness about her oddly, lol, weird IEI fancying everyone, everything. IEE are like this too lol.

[AWellArmedCat]

@AWellArmedCat do you know her subtype? I’m fascinated by SEI-fe in particular. I was at a rave earlier in the year and a young good looking lad kept following me around like a little kid following their sibling around, it confirmed all my beliefs that SEI-fes are my soul mates. Despite the age gap, there was instant connection. I would call it romantic but it’d feel a bit unethical lol

anyway I just realise it might be impolite to ask you about the subtype..but also happy for you, hope all is well

i am chit-chatting with a nice guy atm, and can’t wait to meet him, it feels positive..

also on SEI note, I am feeling grateful for my SEI-si friend, I have always thought she has a refreshing energy. Also a boyishness about her oddly, lol, weird IEI fancying everyone, everything. IEE are like this too lol.

I'm not sure about her subtype, but Fe wouldn't surprises me! She tests ESFJ in MBTI so that may be indicative of ISFp-Fe. I really doubt she's ESFj in Socionics since irrationality feels pretty obvious in her behaviour

[Bethany]

I'm not sure about her subtype, but Fe wouldn't surprises me! She tests ESFJ in MBTI so that may be indicative of ISFp-Fe. I really doubt she's ESFj in Socionics since irrationality feels pretty obvious in her behaviour

I love both the subtypes I want both lol

also if you don’t have strong subtypes then it probably doesn’t make much difference in ITR

I think the SLE I’m talking to is SLE-ti. He seems so nice and normal.

[Scarlett]

Hello I'm back again haha. Happy New Year!
I can't believe it's 2023. It's been 2 years since I joined this forum hahah
I remember I made an account because I started appreciating a dual. And now I'm back again because I think I might have met a dual. Who knows.

Anyway, yeah, so I'm seeing someone atm. Not sure if he's my dual or mirage, I don't really care actually, even if it's mirage it's fine too. Like I said before, I love LSIs, they're "my type" of guy.
So yeah this is the first time I wasn't sure with someone's type. I don't know if it's because I like him so I couldn't see, I don't know.
But yes, he's either LSI-Se or ESI-Se. I can see his aux-Se and tert-Ni, that's how we connect I think, and he's definitely Se-subtype.

So at the beginning I thought he was an LSI.
My first impression of him: he's kinda smart.
Ok look, I don't know how, but I kinda like to "test" people when I start getting to know someone, I just like to see how they respond to my texts, to my questions, my statements, things like that.
And turns out he can keep up!
I would say I have a really high standard of things (and people) and it's not easy to impress me really, but, ah I can't believe I say this, but he made me laugh! So cliche.
But yeah, now I understand why people keep saying that sense of humour is important. I've never thought so because I don't like funny or silly people. But then I met this guy, he's not funny or silly but he's a little bit witty I guess, and I didn't realise I actually enjoyed our conversation. So weird.

So we met online. I guess if not online, we would never meet at all. He's completely from different world, he's very into sports, gym, all those Se-activities.
So from our little chat I can see that he is a passionate person, but not as passionate as I am, I think. He even said so.
Anyway when we finally met for the first time, I found out he's actually very kind!
Because I was expecting he's an LSI, you know with dom-Ti, most LSIs I know are a bit cold, but nope, he's kind.
But I still think he's an LSI, he could be a kind LSI haha.
He's also calm, so definitely not a SLE or SEE.

But then I realised something.
Usually, when I meet dom-Ti for the first time, I find them so interesting, that's why I'm attracted to LSIs. I keep saying even on my previous posts, I love LSIs. But I don't like ESIs.
So when I met this guy for the first time, I just felt comfortable. It's funny I'm not attracted to him, because I thought I would be if he's really an LSI.
Anyway.
So yes, it's comfort. Well, he is good looking and I thought "ok he's not bad looking" but that's it, it wasn't attraction or anything, but I just felt comfortable.
You know how comfortable? Look, when you meet someone online and finally decided to meet up for a first date, it's usually only for 1 or 2 hours. But we stayed for 7 hours I can't believe it. It's like meeting an old friend.

Ok let me tell you some traits about him:
- He didn't really know what he wanted to do when he was a kid but he's good in math and physics (I can see that he's smart as well) but he said he doesn't really like to study back in school or uni, anyway he did engineering at uni.
- He loves animals! So I said "oh why didn't you want to be a vet instead?" And he said "I don't wanna see them get hurt, I don't wanna meet sick animals" I was like ??? Anyway. He said he would rather be a zoo keeper but the salary is not good. I was like, Ok, you got a point.
- He said he used to play video games when he got free time, but now he wants to do more productive things. I was like, Alright.
- Seems like he pays attention to his apartment, a lot. "Oh my apartment is a mess" "How was your day? I was just doing laundry today" "I have today off, I will just do some cleaning" something like that. I don't really like talking about this things, I like talking more about ideas but anyway..
- He's very observant. It's like he's trying to read me and connect patterns, I don't know if it's his aux-Se and tert-Ni, but I find it cute. One day he said "you're giving me mixed signals" and I was like, Oh yeah keep up with me.
I don't know if it's agressor-victim style, but I kinda like the chase and I like that he doesn't give up on me haha. We always joke around and flirt to each other.
- He's surprisingly confident. One day I said I should get present from Santa this Christmas, and he said "maybe Santa gave you me" haha
- Seems like he has strong opinions when he believes in something, not sure if this is dom-Ti or dom-Fi. For example, he's so mad when government fire people just because they don't take covid vaccines, vaccine should be a choice he said. We have bikes and scooters in our city, but he doesn't like that government charge penalty a lot if we don't wear the helmets, he said we're adults, kids should be wearing helmets of all times but not adults. Haha. Um, what else, he doesn't believe in god, but now that he's older (he's in his mid 30s) he said he should believe in something greater than us.

Haha

[Bethany]

I had my first date with a dual who I’ve been talking to for a while. He was nice. It’s funny how much I can idealise someone before actually meeting them, I’d say it was a more realistic and normal version of what I had imagined, but it’s real and that’s better. I hope he wants to meet again, I hope there was a connection despite any of my weird quirks lol. He’s been so nice it’s hard not to idealise it lol. It was a good date. Anyways, let’s see what is next on the agenda.

[Scarlett]

I had my first date with a dual who I’ve been talking to for a while. He was nice. It’s funny how much I can idealise someone before actually meeting them, I’d say it was a more realistic and normal version of what I had imagined, but it’s real and that’s better. I hope he wants to meet again, I hope there was a connection despite any of my weird quirks lol. He’s been so nice it’s hard not to idealise it lol. It was a good date. Anyways, let’s see what is next on the agenda.

Yay wishing you all the best Bethany!

In my experience, it's actually the opposite.
I don't idealise that person before meeting him. And every time we meet, it's always him who hopes and wants to meet me again.
But I think, deep down, I have insecurity if I actually really like him or not, I don't know if it relates to inferior Fi or not. Anyway.

[Bethany]

@Scarlett thanks, I'm gonna try not to talk about on here too much at first, he seems so nice though. Weird- something about him reminds me of one of my very first crushes, who I think was an ESI-fi. Does your person remind you of an IEI-ni? lol. From your description I can't tell if they are LSI or ESI, ESI have a softer demeanour?

[Renna]

Hello I'm back again haha. Happy New Year!
I can't believe it's 2023. It's been 2 years since I joined this forum hahah
I remember I made an account because I started appreciating a dual. And now I'm back again because I think I might have met a dual. Who knows.

Anyway, yeah, so I'm seeing someone atm. Not sure if he's my dual or mirage, I don't really care actually, even if it's mirage it's fine too. Like I said before, I love LSIs, they're "my type" of guy.
So yeah this is the first time I wasn't sure with someone's type. I don't know if it's because I like him so I couldn't see, I don't know.
But yes, he's either LSI-Se or ESI-Se. I can see his aux-Se and tert-Ni, that's how we connect I think, and he's definitely Se-subtype.

So at the beginning I thought he was an LSI.
My first impression of him: he's kinda smart.
Ok look, I don't know how, but I kinda like to "test" people when I start getting to know someone, I just like to see how they respond to my texts, to my questions, my statements, things like that.
And turns out he can keep up!
I would say I have a really high standard of things (and people) and it's not easy to impress me really, but, ah I can't believe I say this, but he made me laugh! So cliche.
But yeah, now I understand why people keep saying that sense of humour is important. I've never thought so because I don't like funny or silly people. But then I met this guy, he's not funny or silly but he's a little bit witty I guess, and I didn't realise I actually enjoyed our conversation. So weird.

So we met online. I guess if not online, we would never meet at all. He's completely from different world, he's very into sports, gym, all those Se-activities.
So from our little chat I can see that he is a passionate person, but not as passionate as I am, I think. He even said so.
Anyway when we finally met for the first time, I found out he's actually very kind!
Because I was expecting he's an LSI, you know with dom-Ti, most LSIs I know are a bit cold, but nope, he's kind.
But I still think he's an LSI, he could be a kind LSI haha.
He's also calm, so definitely not a SLE or SEE.

But then I realised something.
Usually, when I meet dom-Ti for the first time, I find them so interesting, that's why I'm attracted to LSIs. I keep saying even on my previous posts, I love LSIs. But I don't like ESIs.
So when I met this guy for the first time, I just felt comfortable. It's funny I'm not attracted to him, because I thought I would be if he's really an LSI.
Anyway.
So yes, it's comfort. Well, he is good looking and I thought "ok he's not bad looking" but that's it, it wasn't attraction or anything, but I just felt comfortable.
You know how comfortable? Look, when you meet someone online and finally decided to meet up for a first date, it's usually only for 1 or 2 hours. But we stayed for 7 hours I can't believe it. It's like meeting an old friend.

Ok let me tell you some traits about him:
- He didn't really know what he wanted to do when he was a kid but he's good in math and physics (I can see that he's smart as well) but he said he doesn't really like to study back in school or uni, anyway he did engineering at uni.
- He loves animals! So I said "oh why didn't you want to be a vet instead?" And he said "I don't wanna see them get hurt, I don't wanna meet sick animals" I was like ??? Anyway. He said he would rather be a zoo keeper but the salary is not good. I was like, Ok, you got a point.
- He said he used to play video games when he got free time, but now he wants to do more productive things. I was like, Alright.
- Seems like he pays attention to his apartment, a lot. "Oh my apartment is a mess" "How was your day? I was just doing laundry today" "I have today off, I will just do some cleaning" something like that. I don't really like talking about this things, I like talking more about ideas but anyway..
- He's very observant. It's like he's trying to read me and connect patterns, I don't know if it's his aux-Se and tert-Ni, but I find it cute. One day he said "you're giving me mixed signals" and I was like, Oh yeah keep up with me.
I don't know if it's agressor-victim style, but I kinda like the chase and I like that he doesn't give up on me haha. We always joke around and flirt to each other.
- He's surprisingly confident. One day I said I should get present from Santa this Christmas, and he said "maybe Santa gave you me" haha
- Seems like he has strong opinions when he believes in something, not sure if this is dom-Ti or dom-Fi. For example, he's so mad when government fire people just because they don't take covid vaccines, vaccine should be a choice he said. We have bikes and scooters in our city, but he doesn't like that government charge penalty a lot if we don't wear the helmets, he said we're adults, kids should be wearing helmets of all times but not adults. Haha. Um, what else, he doesn't believe in god, but now that he's older (he's in his mid 30s) he said he should believe in something greater than us.

Haha

Be careful, he could be SLI, another possibility ~

[orange juice]

I think people can accept sluts/manwhores if sexual promiscuity doesn't detract from the characteristics they look for in a partner. I think that non-sluts/manwhores can have this characteristic and still be capable, good-hearted people. However, I'm not sure that they can have this characteristic and also have certain life philosophies.

I've noticed that some types of people judge partners as a general "type" based on many unrelated characteristics, while others view the characteristics as separate parts of a personality that have their own value or meaning. I don't have any good examples of this at the moment. This might be related to the Static/Dynamic Dichotomy, but I haven't compared others' types and their Dichotomies to check whether this is true.

This post was edited on 1/29/23, at 5:23 am GMT.

These are my personal thoughts and you can feel free to think however you want, but at the end of the day this is how I feel.

Someone's sexual history shouldn't be the deciding factor of their value to *you* or in general. Sex shouldn't be shamed, it's a natural human instinct and normal. It doesn't determine someone's worth, their value as a person, or if they should be accepted. The only reason promiscuity would be deemed “bad” in my eyes if it's due to mental health issues like sexual abuse, harms their well being, and/or they neglect to care for their body and not respect other's bodies too. Sex isn't the problem but the reasons why people chase after it — sometimes it's more than just the craving.

Any “good” partner will accept their significant other — flaws and all — and love them unconditionally. Seek to understand them and listen to their experiences, value their feelings and emotions. Not treat them like an object meant to be fixed, but a human person who has unique individual experiences. If they don't then they're in the relationship for other reasons and those are the wrong ones. If you can't learn to respect them as a person first can you really respect their body too? And not, are you really a “good” partner?

[Bethany]

Not treat them like an object meant to be fixed, but a human person who has unique individual experiences. If they don't then they're in the relationship for other reasons and those are the wrong ones.

I was just this morning thinking about how male colleagues always do this to me..they can’t seem to risk feeling emasculated by ACTUALLY empathising and risking the realisation that they need to work on their emotional intelligence…they don’t want to feel guilt or inferiority because then they’ll stop feeling like they have the right to being self-superior, and have to actually negotiate what it means to treat someone as an equal.. rather than acting like an entitled baby or ‘special boy’ who never has to grow up.

it can be so uncomfortable when this type of distance is created- seeing you like a ‘thing’ or ‘issue’, something beneath them, something not quite real, something they easily attack if needed

On a more positive note I’ve observed my younger brother do the opposite recently. He seems to be getting more curious about people’s emotional reactions to things.

[orange juice]

I was just this morning thinking about how male colleagues always do this to me..they can’t seem to risk feeling emasculated by ACTUALLY empathising and risking the realisation that they need to work on their emotional intelligence…they don’t want to feel guilt or inferiority because then they’ll stop feeling like they have the right to being self-superior, and have to actually negotiate what it means to treat someone as an equal.. rather than acting like an entitled baby or ‘special boy’ who never has to grow up.

it can be so uncomfortable when this type of distance is created- seeing you like a ‘thing’ or ‘issue’, something beneath them, something not quite real, something they easily attack if needed

On a more positive note I’ve observed my younger brother do the opposite recently. He seems to be getting more curious about people’s emotional reactions to things.

You're so right ugh that's exactly it. They don't want to feel inferior, they want complete control so they can "feel like a man." And like you said, that's so childish of them. They haven't grown or matured enough mentally and emotionally to form actual bonds with others. Not hot

[Bethany]

This hurts my 3E.

I'm probably taking this out of context a little.

welcome to my brain..

btw I wasn’t following what you were saying closely so it wasn’t related to your comments

[Bethany]

Yup. I guess I was joking. Somehow, people seem to have different understandings about what's good in the world, or how people should act. There's this side of humanity that prioritizes compassion and kindness, and then there's the side that prioritizes toughness and cold intelligence. I guess I naturally belong to the second side.

It's probably a Fe/Te thing, although I guess it could also be a E thing in AP or maybe something related to Enneagram. I'm low emotion in at least 2 personality systems (Enneagram and AP). I show EII characteristics in Socionics (the TIM is referring to MBTI, which I fit ISTJ in according to some descriptions).

i have one person in particular in mind when I wrote that and the annoying thing is he really likes to push an agenda that he is a nice and reasonable type of guy (oh I have seen too much and he is not lol). But he’s also just a person, I’m not sure that his wife works so there may be pressure to make money and do well. Which may explain why he doesn’t seem to care about people he works with as individuals, he seems to be able to switch from caring to ruthless from one min to the next. That won’t work on me lol. If you want something from me, you have to be respectful (I say now after falling for his bullshit before lol)

Have you seen this article?

http://www.socionics.com/articles/behavetemp.html

I think my compassionate side is related to me having a significant subtype (which probably developed due to unideal upbringing, not a bad one but a bit lacking in a some aspects). I was always shy and well later that turned into a lot of other problems. But even if everything had been fine I think I would always have ended up identifying with vulnerable people. Probably because that subtype makes me feel vulnerable- I find most things hard lol. Even if I’d have succeeded it would have been at some cost most likely, more than for others.

[Bethany]

@Clarke

I mean you could just be an IJ with a ‘realist’ type of view of the world..LSI have a vulnerable side and I could see them developing a ‘moderate’ world view, due to feeling a sort of pessimism. ‘That’s just the way the world is..’. Liberal LSIs I know probably feel bad when they fail to live by their values..other more radical LSIs might feel bad that they can’t do more to help. IJs are quite cold seeming in a general way. I’m def not an expert however. As for ILIs I know an annoying ambitious politically moderate male ILI..and a highly educated compassionate lefty female one..the description I least relate to was the EJ one- I was almost offended by the description lol.

I always just knew my type, whether that’s a good or bad thing. I’m not young so that could be partly why, my personality has settled.

[Bethany]

@Clarke I could see EII..was just reading this thread on EII the other day, https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...athic-and-nice of course EII come in all shapes and sizes too, they can be pretty involved in politics..but I don’t know I see their compassionate side as being something ‘learned’ rather than ‘innate’ but I’m not sure lol maybe like they are continually reassessing..but maybe I just haven’t met a super lefty EII

edit: maybe ‘forced’ is a better work than ‘learned’

[Scarlett]

OMG
Everyone. I don't know if anyone follow my stories here. Just a little update.
So we've been together for nearly 3 months now. And we're getting closer and closer, now I realised our communication style is very different, he's blunt and sometimes that came off as aggressive and rude. How could it be possible for an ESI acts like that? Unless he's not ESI.

I think I posted here before, I thought he was an ESI because he has quite high Fi. He's very moral, like black and white, right and wrong, very subjective. And he always goes to the gym, he's into sports. So much Fi-Se, that's why I thought he's an ESI.
@Renna how do you think he could be SLI? Because we had a BIG fight last night, it's basically about our communication style and when I confront him he just didn't accept it. He kept saying I'm playing mind games that I actually don't want to see him anymore and asked me to be honest, and I said I was being honest by letting him know about our differences. Anyway I was very sad, we decided to break up and the break up feels like my break up with an SLI long time ago, very hurting!

By the way I tried to look up the relationship between ENTJ (LIE) and ISTJ (SLI) and I found this:

Picture1.png

And what I experienced was EXACTLY like that!
It all seemed dreamy at first, we both get along really well, he's a smart, strong and silent type that would be able to balance my inner emotions, and within a few weeks of meeting he actually said he thought I might be the right girl. And I know he's searching for the right person, wanting to get married and start family of his own, as he's in his mid 30s.
We both pursue each other heavily, not just him. We text and talk and share stories literally every day, all day and night, he's my best friend.
But in my case, I'm the one who gets distant. I don't know why I just pulled away, and that's when I realised we are so different, and he kept questioning me, accusing me of doing mind games, he was like "Just be honest and say you don't want to see me anymore". So I told him I was being honest about our differences, but he said he cannot accept it.

This is the second time I dated my supervisor, SLI. The break up hurts the exact same way.
And I realised he's an SLI at the time when I get distant, like it's all coming together. I guess the sports and gym stuff I thought Se was actually Si, he's working in aviation industry that I thought very Se was actually Si. I actually just found out he's been working at the same job and position for 11 years by the way. And the most important thing, I can't believe he says I'm playing mind games, is that inferior-Ne thing? Oh boy.

[Renna]

OMG
Everyone. I don't know if anyone follow my stories here. Just a little update.
So we've been together for nearly 3 months now. And we're getting closer and closer, now I realised our communication style is very different, he's blunt and sometimes that came off as aggressive and rude. How could it be possible for an ESI acts like that? Unless he's not ESI.

I think I posted here before, I thought he was an ESI because he has quite high Fi. He's very moral, like black and white, right and wrong, very subjective. And he always goes to the gym, he's into sports. So much Fi-Se, that's why I thought he's an ESI.
@Renna how do you think he could be SLI? Because we had a BIG fight last night, it's basically about our communication style and when I confront him he just didn't accept it. He kept saying I'm playing mind games that I actually don't want to see him anymore and asked me to be honest, and I said I was being honest by letting him know about our differences. Anyway I was very sad, we decided to break up and the break up feels like my break up with an SLI long time ago, very hurting!

By the way I tried to look up the relationship between ENTJ (LIE) and ISTJ (SLI) and I found this:

Picture1.png

And what I experienced was EXACTLY like that!
It all seemed dreamy at first, we both get along really well, he's a smart, strong and silent type that would be able to balance my inner emotions, and within a few weeks of meeting he actually said he thought I might be the right girl. And I know he's searching for the right person, wanting to get married and start family of his own, as he's in his mid 30s.
We both pursue each other heavily, not just him. We text and talk and share stories literally every day, all day and night, he's my best friend.
But in my case, I'm the one who gets distant. I don't know why I just pulled away, and that's when I realised we are so different, and he kept questioning me, accusing me of doing mind games, he was like "Just be honest and say you don't want to see me anymore". So I told him I was being honest about our differences, but he said he cannot accept it.

This is the second time I dated my supervisor, SLI. The break up hurts the exact same way.
And I realised he's not an SLI at the time when I get distant, like it's all coming together. I guess the sports and gym stuff I thought Se was actually Si, he's working in aviation industry that I thought very Se was actually Si. I actually just found out he's been working at the same job and position for 11 years by the way. And the most important thing, I can't believe he says I'm playing mind games, is that inferior-Ne thing? Oh boy.

I’m still not sure if the guy is SLI. LSI still has a change. Thing about moral, black and white could also be a sign of strong Ti, like Rorschach from the movie Watchmen

It’s was just a random guess of mine, because I saw some hidden signs like he said you was playing mind game, or when he said he was doing laundry bla bla. I would say that LIE and EIE usually has a talking style feel like they’re hiding something, they’re up to something, or they are manipulating something, and I guess that would annoy SLI Fe polr and 1D Ne.

As a fellow Fe polr (ILI) I myself also don’t like Fe social talking game, or mind game depend of how you call it. I rather blunt and straight forward the way I speak. You get the idea of miscommunication here.

[orange juice]

Yup. I guess I was joking. Somehow, people seem to have different understandings about what's good in the world, or how people should act. There's this side of humanity that prioritizes compassion and kindness, and then there's the side that prioritizes toughness and cold intelligence. I guess I naturally belong to the second side.

It's probably a Fe/Te thing, although I guess it could also be a E thing in AP or maybe something related to Enneagram. I'm low emotion in at least 2 personality systems (Enneagram and AP). I show EII characteristics in Socionics (the TIM is referring to MBTI, which I fit ISTJ in according to some descriptions).

I actually apologize I didn't realize how I really came off. In fact, my words were more so directed towards End. I should've tagged or mentioned him instead idk why I didn't. My bad. Now I look like a complete dick

And no, you can't force yourself to be attracted to someone so never feel guilty for it.

[orange juice]

No problem. I guessed later that it was just a wording precision issue (you basically had a concept in mind but you didn't define it on a technically accurate kind of level).

Yeahhhhh -- I was going for something else and didn't realize that's what it sounded like. Not my intent at all. I tend to feel things a certain way and forget some people may take it another way. Yeah, I'll be more accurate with what I say in the future.

[Scarlett]

I’m still not sure if the guy is SLI. LSI still has a change. Thing about moral, black and white could also be a sign of strong Ti, like Rorschach from the movie Watchmen

It’s was just a random guess of mine, because I saw some hidden signs like he said you was playing mind game, or when he said he was doing laundry bla bla. I would say that LIE and EIE usually has a talking style feel like they’re hiding something, they’re up to something, or they are manipulating something, and I guess that would annoy SLI Fe polr and 1D Ne.

As a fellow Fe polr (ILI) I myself also don’t like Fe social talking game, or mind game depend of how you call it. I rather blunt and straight forward the way I speak. You get the idea of miscommunication here.

Thanks.
Yeah I ended everything last weekend. He became really cold and kept arguing with me. I guess that’s Fe polr.
I have an LSI close friend, inferior Fe is not like this, after an argument they kinda want to make sure you feel ok

Anyway, just an update. We’re done.
Now I see why we get along well quickly, we discussed about everything everyday, from hobbies til work, we’re like mind mates.
I don’t think I would feel the same if he was an ESI.

[Sol]

This characteristic is basically the reason why I can't properly understand Socionics. I don't have an internal reference (I can't type properly myself or others that I know)

Read Filatova's book. It mb best in English about Socionics. Jung's book is useful too.
In theory you should limit trusts parts as: 4 dichotomies, 8 kinds of functions, strenght, value, IR.
Then gather facts and evaluate what type is _more possible_ for a human, for people. You may analyse common behavior, intuitive impressions about types traits, to use tests.
By thinking about type variants and facts, after a time of monthes you'll notice that some types variants fit to theory clearly better than any other. And your impressions from people fit to IR. It's not hard in essence, but needs efforts of watching people and some thinking.
It will be a moment of Socionics understanding. That this "astrology" works somehow.

To decide what is the type is logical theme. The problem to decide this with assurance may point on F type. In case you can't for long time accept some own traits or a type, and such of close people with assurance.
In English exists a problem of quality texts for studing. But the info exists. It's mixed with terribly translated parts. And with doubtful parts, some of which are not from Jung or Augustinavichiute and should not be used at all. Forget about Reinin traits and subtypes. More rely on more basic definitions by Jung. Interpretations may contain mistakes and do - in Jung and Augustinavichiute's texts. To be conservative would be useful.

In case you'll place a video in your typing theme, mb I'd helped with your type.
10 min tale about yourself, good seen face, no glasses. The link in 1st message of typing theme.

[Sol]

Someone's sexual history shouldn't be the deciding factor of their value to *you* or in general.

The more sexual partners were - the more chance that next pair will not be stable too, will not get enough efforts to be good, a human will be cheating.

> Sex shouldn't be shamed, it's a natural human instinct and normal.

Sex is to born children. And it's natural only when leads to borning children.
This supposes, at least, strong sexual attraction with a wish to born children. And preferably good friendship/love state, as you'll need to cooperate a lot and good with other human for mutual tasks, including care about children.

Sex in deep love, in a family pair - decent history.

In other case - it's stupid relation to own life and life of other people. Children without parrents, diseases, emotionally bad pairs, pairs breaks, spending resources on people with who relations are doubtful to be good, egocentrism with not wishing to do efforts you and your pair felt good together.
Stupidness and lack of morality linked with irresponsibility is what appropriate to perceive as shame.

And as we talk from the side of _nature_, what you've started.
Sexual deviations, which are crazy popularized by propaganda from today USA. It's not natural and hence not what normal people should like, support or have a pleasant to see. It's sad disorders of brain or only behavior, and as other disorders to push them in medias and other public places is against interests of normal people.
When it's a case of "just behavior" - should be named as a shame. When it's biology which completely attaches to unnatural - deserves regrets and medicine researches to fix, as the abbility of such people to make children in good family conditions is reduced or absents (as in case of homosexuality).
Such history also deserves an attention, in case you want emotionally good family with a human.

[orange juice]

wtf my texts are glitching

[orange juice]

The more sexual partners were - the more chance that next pair will not be stable too, will not get enough efforts to be good, a human will be cheating.

> Sex shouldn't be shamed, it's a natural human instinct and normal.

Sex is to born children. And it's natural only when leads to borning children.
This supposes, at least, strong sexual attraction with a wish to born children. And preferably good friendship/love state, as you'll need to cooperate a lot and good with other human for mutual tasks, including care about children.

Sex in deep love, in a family pair - decent history.

In other case - it's stupid relation to own life and life of other people. Children without parrents, diseases, emotionally bad pairs, pairs breaks, spending resources on people with who relations are doubtful to be good, egocentrism with not wishing to do efforts you and your pair felt good together.
Stupidness and lack of morality linked with irresponsibility is what appropriate to perceive as shame.

And as we talk from the side of _nature_, what you've started.
Sexual deviations, which are crazy popularized by propaganda from today USA. It's not natural and hence not what normal people should like, support or have a pleasant to see. It's sad disorders of brain or only behavior, and as other disorders to push them in medias and other public places is against interests of normal people.
When it's a case of "just behavior" - should be named as a shame. When it's biology which completely attaches to unnatural - deserves regrets and medicine researches to fix, as the abbility of such people to make children in good family conditions is reduced or absents (as in case of homosexuality).
Such history also deserves an attention, in case you want emotionally good family with a human.

I should've just said something along the lines of

It's none of your business what a person does with their body as long as it doesn't hurt you, themselves or anyone else... Their value or worth as a person isn't determined from that, regardless of what you might think, because **no one** is the decider/judger of that. You're not God almighty perfect. You might think they're nasty or provocative, sure, but at the end of the day you're also a human and nothing more or less.

Basically if you try to play god I'll just point my finger back at ya and bend it back or whatever Paramore said. Again this isn't targeted at anyone. I agree with what you say I just feel like judging their worth or value is stupid and inhumane and quite contradictory

[Sol]

It's none of your business what a person does with their body as long as it doesn't hurt you, themselves or anyone else...

While the said by me explains that sexual behavior (incl. pathologies) and misleading body's deformation has significant influence on good/bad for other people and for that human too.

Promiscuity and homosexual propaganda is mainly based on egocentric ideology and is supported mainly by liberals (individualists). Hence low caring about interests of other people. And partly irresponsibility to yourself too, including as you depend from good state of other people and have a compassion to them.

Sex is appriopriate only when you love (so want a marriage) and want children. In other case - it mainly leads to more problems than positive, a part of which were discussed.
Promiscuity - sex without love, often without even strong sexual attraction. Human reduces a possibility to be in emotionally good pair, lesser cares about other one in his pair, reduces possibility to rise children in good conditions, arises a chance of diseases. Besides your problems, other people depend on how good you feel and what you do.

Homosexuality, as any pathology or disease (exists hypothetical chance on fixing), inspires an aversion in normal people. It's evident pathology as such people has strong obstacle to born and rise children in emotionally good pair. They have lesser interest to born children so leads to extinction.
Misleading about own sex - is harmful lie. Those ones can't born children, while an attraction of normal human has such wish. They only partly have what should (incl. unconsciously should be noticed more - so the attraction should be lower even with "complete" changing). The mix of traits of both sexes, - also looks disgusting, is perceived as a pathology and which is.

The ones who pushes from USA since 1960s mass propoganda of drugs/sex, lower instincts expression, homosexuality, egocentrism - want to do the harm for most people as thinks them as competing. To make most people weaker, incl by making them lesser caring about each other, by making more harmful between them.
As an addition to sex-liberal (sex-egocentric) harm which exists now, an example of lesser evident future moment. The aim of that "trans" hysteria can be to destroy sex in people - no men, no women for mb most of humanity. What % of people wants this? While this process is going. Now it's done by psychology methods and by your will (though, with children's "just wish" - when they have doubtful criticism, so this can be said done by force with them already; besides psychological methods used by force and social terrorism). In next times "your wish" will be asked lesser and lesser. For them (satanists/liberals) is ideally when you'll get early child or preborn toxins/genes mods/surgery which will destroy or pervert your sex related traits from the start. So you could not born children, ideally had no sexual interests (to be better controlled slave). The society is in adopting to this now.
When you will be phreaked alike that - will not "hurt" you?

It's good that you've started with "as it doesn't hurt you, themselves or anyone else".
Now you need 2nd step, - to understand the harm what do promiscuity, homosexuality and misleading about sex, including by mutilating bodies to look closer to opposite sex.

[Beautiful sky]

Yes whatever you do please raise kids in a loving environment

[Leo]

Whatever you do, don't hit the children on the head It might have bad consequences