LSIs are not chaotic. LSIs are the opposite of chaotic.Originally Posted by EIE H
LSIs are not chaotic. LSIs are the opposite of chaotic.
Oh I regret the way I talked to the interesting Estp. Not good….I hope there’s a serious lesson to be learnt. Socionics, I hope you’re finished scrambling my brain :/ I think I need a break from dates or I need to be ok with having on/off convos. And not rush to go on a date because dates can be quite exhausting and over-whelming, and catch up with you. Probably need to get better at setting up quick dates.
Last edited by Bethany; 08-30-2022 at 09:05 PM.
sx blind may imply trauma itself. some kind of mental framework that makes u act in a way thats not right but have somehow convinced urself it was. u said internalized misogynistic shame. u exposed something to someone that was shamed out of u, and then he used ur vulnerability to spite u when u had a weak moment and cheated. he may not even have masturbated before u would visit him but he said it as a revenge. or even if he had if he had bad intentions about it. that never got resolved. you used him and allowed urself to do that bc u believed the lies u were fed about sex and became what u should have fought against. i dont know if it would be right to blame you in the absolute sense. but i believe if someone admits their fault and has guilt for real meaning they attempt and walk the very harsh path to change themselves they shouldnt be punished/revenged against. maybe this means u havent changed something very important about urself that resulted in ur harming him, so u cant face him when u are still like that. if hes angry and rightfully so u may be afraid of that.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.
@persimmonism I agree with scawwy in that it sounds like he was quite toxic. It’s most worrying that you thought he was “never toxic whatsoever” and you were unable to see this. It’s a survival adaptation to turn a blind eye to the faults of someone you’re dependent on. I would look at that blind eye with your other eye if I were you, especially since assumingly you aren’t dependent on him anymore yet you still think that way about him.
@persimmonism
if u hooked up with him without being sexually attracted, he may sense that and affect him even if ur not overt about it. its like u lied to him about being attracted to him, and he may have actually been attracted to you. then u kept it going with him when u were not the kind of person who would actually stay with him. this is if i understood ur story correctly. he wanted to keep you, like any sane human being wants to keep soemone in a relationship. he didnt want to hook up but wanted a relationship. and maybe he even wanted a relationship because he sensed something was wrong, but didnt know what it was so maybe a relationship would shed some light.
i dont know why he stopped getting attracted to you, if it was bc he was toxic and really not seeing the person in front of him, or becuase you were.
for stacking i recall it said it fluctuates.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.
No one wants to see their ex on a screen in their lecture hallbut let’s hope the next time you see him or hear of him it won’t be quite as bad as that..
yes, you can feel traumatised by a situation. I’m sure some fault lies with him too- and I’m
sure he’ll learn something from the experience. It’ll take some time to move on, but you will work through it. It might feel chaotic thinking about it and intense, but this will decrease over time. You will gain some insight..and you will feel normal again. I’m not sure how to make the process quicker/ easier- distractions, fun activities with girl friends..Let yourself feel stuff, it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t make sense, write it down..I think it’s pretty hard to understand a break up/ break down in a romantic relationship..we try..I think the understanding happens on a more unconscious level..give yourself a bit of time.
So I’m still chatting to an Esfp. Lol I’m so lame writing about guys I haven’t even met yet- not exactly dating lol. Anyway, if I meet the guy I’m not gonna talk about him on here unless it’s to ask for specific advice.
Re the dual I had a strange interaction with…I did manage to find him on social media. So I could get in touch with him
one day if I really wanted to…and see if he might change his mind. I’m not sure what went wrong but perhaps it wasn’t meant to be.
I feel like all the best duals got snapped up at the start of the pandemic when everyone was using dating apps. That combined with the fact it can be really hard to communicate with duals initially. I read somewhere that beta and delta duals have a harder time communicating than alpha/gamma duals. What does that mean for dating apps..
I think it can help if you have a natural spark, but that’s hard to find in someone in general on a dating app.
I think there is a significant difference in the ‘quality’ of semi-dual and dual relationships, but semi-duals are still exciting and loveable..and far better than some other types, and have a good chance of working long term. I have my eye on another SEI too, maybe at this point in my life I need some SF love.
Last edited by Bethany; 09-03-2022 at 10:15 AM.
I'm with my LIE again. I feel bad for some of the things I said on here about him, because some things were actually my own PTSD talking. When we get into fights it sometimes triggers it. I learned my lesson about using public spaces for venting.
Most of the time, I choose my words very deliberately. Pay attention to which words I use, because I speak with precision in mind. "Most" means "not all, but the majority," "unlikely" means "improbable, but not impossible." Many misunderstandings can be prevented by simply reading what I have actually written.
根性
ʏᴏᴜ ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ɢᴇᴛ ᴡʜᴀᴛ ʏᴏᴜ ᴅᴇsᴇʀᴠᴇ
ʏᴏᴜ ɢᴇᴛ ᴡʜᴀᴛ ʏᴏᴜ ᴛᴀᴋᴇ
I'm with myself again. Gonna fire up the BBQ for labor day and fix myself some juicy steak.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I had dated my SLI friend for one day
We were bored so we decided to date each other for a day without even talking like a partners
He's in a relationship with a IEE girl but they are about to break up , they decided to let it open for a while to see how everything will go
His IEE girlfriend did the same thing
Anyway, I felt bored more than I was before
I miss my IEE crush I worked with a few years ago. I could actually see us being in each other's lives again. My sister also had a crush/ short term relationship with a contrary partner and she says she knows she'll always be friends with him. Something special about this dynamic..when it's good. I don't think I can be friends with many males I admire or fancy so it would be nice if we reunited one day. Just thinking about these pairs together is cute- the sweet SEI loving the unappreciated SEE..aww.
edit:
I feel like this relation (for friendship mainly) is potentially really good for people who are depressives/ anxious and need to feel love and passion. I'm sure other ITR are better 'quality' but this one just feels extremely special to me. Knowing there are IEEs out there I can befriend if I need to, is a great comfort to me. They help me to keep going and cheer me up. Even if sometimes they give me unhelpful advice, the good advice more than makes up for it. And they find something to love in me and it feels very real.
I keep thinking about types/ subtypes and gender....and what makes a friendship/ relationship feel passionate/ romantic/ close.
Last edited by Bethany; 09-06-2022 at 11:10 AM.
There is a married LIE manager at a company that we work with who has information-coordination meetings on Zoom every week.
He recently started working with an ESI finance guy and he’s fallen in love. Lol. He’s fallen into a supportive Duality, and now he wants everyone to meet this guy.
I’m happy for the two of them, but it’s kind of strange to see how much the LIE likes the ESI. Almost too much, it seems. The LIE is not aware of why he thinks this ESI guy is so great, but he knows that he is.
I can’t really fault him for that. I probably look the same way when I’m out with the 27 yo ESI-Se decorator. “Oh, you see an incompatibility because of our age difference? Well, fuck off, bud. She and I are together against the world.”
Of course, we’re “together” primarily in a Socionics sense. There really are some huge differences which, when I gloss over them, lead to trouble. Duality has a seductive quality to it which can make you throw caution to the wind, and it’s only later that you see where and why you went wrong. Duals don’t cover all your screw ups.
Nevertheless, I think that Socionics explains 80% of team-building.
When I was dating an LSI female, back when I was 25 years old, I kind of fell in love with her. For sure, the sex was fantastic, so I tried really hard to tell myself that I also loved her. I even managed to tell her that once.
This "all or nothing" thing might be a flaw in the design of 1D Fi people.
Anyway, to an LIE like myself, a relationship with an LSI is called Mirage, and for reasons that I didn't understand at the time, I didn't want my friends to meet her. I mean, we lived with each other, but neither of us wanted to bring our friends into the relationship, or tell anyone at work (which is where we met) that we were seeing each other.
The exact same thing happened to me right after my divorce. I met an LSI through a group we both belong to, we started having great sex but never introduced each other to our friends, and neither of us wanted the group to find out that we were seeing each other.
I don't think that these two events were similar by accident.
@Adam Strange yeah when I think of the ILEs I’ve fancied..they seem special, but I can’t put my finger on why. And I have a dear ILE friend. He is young and in a relationship and I don’t like him like that…but I don’t think we can hang out one to one really. I like his group of friends so it shouldn’t matter for now, I think we both want to have intimate conversations because we have a good connection..but I think we have to revolve the friendship around our shared interest and not each other..it’s a way of keeping it intimate but not too intimate. Can try anyway. It’s kinda the opposite problem to what you mention…finding a way to hold on to the intimacy without having true intimacy lol
But I think if I dated an ILE I would be ok showing them off to my friends..I see your point about 1D fi.
The ILE needs to be quite special for me to notice them
Last edited by Bethany; 09-06-2022 at 02:43 PM.
@Bethany, I have no problem at all with introducing any of the ESIs that I know to my friends.@Adam Strange yeah when I think of the ILEs I’ve fancied..they seem special, but I can’t put my finger on why. And I have a dear ILE friend. He is young and in a relationship and I don’t like him like that…but I don’t think we can hang out one to one really. I like his group of friends so it shouldn’t matter for now, I think we both want to have intimate conversations because we have a good connection..but I think we have to revolve the friendship around our shared interest and not each other..it’s a way of keeping it intimate but not too intimate. Can try anyway. It’s kinda the opposite problem to what you mention…finding a way to hold on to the intimacy without having true intimacy lol
But I think if I dated an ILE I would be ok showing them off to my friends..I see your point about 1D fi.
The ILE needs to be quite special for me to notice them
However, the ESIs seem to be a lot slower to admit me into their lives.
There is a description somewhere of dating ESIs which says that if they don’t invite you into their house, your chances with them are almost nonexistent. Their friend circle might be similar.
It's funny. I have been talking on Tinder with this woman/girl for almost 2 months. Seemed nice and ok looking. She was very busy and was on vacation traveling. Kept in touch all the time. We didn't manage to find a time to meet. Then last week she told me she was back in town, and I immediately suggested we should meet. Her reply: "Unfortunately not this week because my mom is visiting and I have to entertain her, and on Saturday we have a family gathering and on Sunday I am going horse back riding."
She is probably LSE anyway and I have kindof lost my interest anyway. I'm dropping her. If you can't find a time for a date for 2 months despite living in the same town then it's not that sexy anymore.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Why do men keep implying that I am the exception to the rule compared to most women? Like it doesn’t feel like a compliment that it’s supposed to be like it’s slightly misogynistic. Lol
@EIE H, you might learn a lot by asking them what they think the rule is, and why you are an exception to it.
I am “logical” for a woman. I am a “good girl” compared to most “bitches” they have been with. Those are some of the supposed reasons from the guys’ mouths…. Yikes.
“Yikes”, indeed.
*Like*
[My like button still doesn't work, after all these months]
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
.
.
.
*Like*
I think yours are the posts I miss the most here, Adam. Such good Socionics insight. How nice you were able to tell this girl she really had the right guy, too.
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
.
.
.
time to feel obligated to act the way they want u to off their shitty presumptions or throw their expectations out the window so they start seething about how u are covert mousey and manipulative. this is my personal experience. it was actually described in "please understand me" that NFs treat others well but this is taken by others as if the NF likes them in particular bc most ppl are just shitty and dont know how to be nice.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.
I think most of the "logical" part come from your Ni... Ni can make people feel you are smart and easy to get/understand something. And combine it with 4d Fe...
If people think your are smart, they may think you are a "logical" person.
I disagree, Ni does not make people look logical. Often times it makes them look crazy until they are proven right, then they look "wise".
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 09-12-2022 at 04:21 AM.
I feel like this is gamma duality in a nutshell, very bonnie and clyde.
This was my exact experience. I hung around guys way too different from me and I didn't fit in with them, it was an EIE who pulled me to the side and made me realize there's nothing wrong with me I don't have to fit in with those guys, we became like brothers. But we actually got too close and problems started to arise, and now we are like distant brothers, still brothers though.
And I think SEI/SEE is common.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 09-12-2022 at 04:29 AM.
A lot of men are probably more used to feeling like the rule rather than the exception and would love it if women told them they were the exception. More than likely they're just telling you what they themselves would like to hear
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell猫が生き甲斐
Maybe EIE/EII doesn’t work as well as IEE/IEI. I read on here that EIE get bored of people…but maybe in the end they realise who their true friends are. My IEE friends are like family too, I had a much closer IEE friend but we had a big fall out. (Def not perfect..) My closest friends used to be IEE/ILI/SLI but the closeness made it difficult to remain friends with them. I didn’t like that they knew me so well, when I wanted to escape my past. If things had been more normal, perhaps I would have naturally put up some boundaries without feeling a need to end things. Also had an EII friend which feels even more complicated lol. Sometimes I marvel that I’ve managed to make new friends..
ESE/SEI seems common too.
Last edited by Bethany; 09-12-2022 at 07:31 AM.
Had a Tinder date yesterday. Was exciting because has been a month since I met somebody new from Tinder. Her profile picture seemed introverted and serious, and in her messages she seemed nice and polite. Talked about ordinary stuff, like that we live close to each other, and what she has been doing with her son. Maybe SEI or even SLI?? Worst case scenario: LSE? We decided to go for a walk. She immediately recognized me. She was all Fe and surprisingly extraverted: " Hi! Nice to meet you, shall we kiss on the cheek like the French? (kiss) (kiss)". Very nice and sort of down to earth. Not snobbish at all. I knew she is Russian but her grandmother was Karelian. She speaks Finnish fluently, but with an accent (I noticed that the second we met). The first minutes are always interesting, types running trough my head. I settled for EJ for the time being. But didn't take long for me to get enough data to finalize her as EIE. Maybe C or N, not so easy to tell. And, she is a teacher (how original for an EIE, lol). I felt her Fe was a little too much, though. She's really nice, but I felt the amount of Fe made me feel uncomfortable. We talked almost all the time because of her high energy. I didn't feel that we are compatible, like I feel with some ESEs.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
You SEI and she EIE --> exactly same as my parents .. My Dad SEI and Mom EIE. It can work but with careful wise supervision to her. My Dad made it bad for my Mom, and therefore her to me not great at all but one interaction in my elementary years that was my only good memory of her and me together.
Bottom Line is, relationships all take work so ... go forth and conquer!
Well yes work is always needed. But I feel so much more chemistry with for example ESE so I dont think I will go forward on this one.
I am not picky. Any decent looking and nice Alpha (+IEE) will do.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
So you are sure your parents are supervisors? I know of one couple but they divorced. My parents are business LSI+ESI and they had LOTS of friction and bad communication over the years.
Problem with supervision: how do you get psychologically more intimate? The bad impact is always there and the supervisee is going to feel slightly inferior although she does not know why. Now when I met the EIE I was the one to feel inferior or slightly uncomfortable but this was only on the surface. If we would break the ice things would change. I know EIEs are uncomfortable around me, and it's strange becsuse I am so simple and they seem more advanced. But I also dont like the somewhat superior attitude it creates in me. It comes after some time with them. Because I am so relaxed and they are not.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Yes, I am sure. They are both dead now, so I can't actually talk to them or anything. It was a very weird household. My mother got more neurotic as time went on. I was the last child, of 5. Basically my Dad didn't support my Mother's needs, and that, or lack of, with supervision, broke her.
SEI are Alpha, EIE are Beta.
EIE have an aristocracy thing about them.
I can't really say what it feels like to be SEI supervisor to EIE
I can say how I feel when LSE is talking to my husband on speaker phone, I feel compelled to listen and want to tell him a thing or two that isn't so, to that LSE (but I don't do that.) It's an innate feeling I always had hearing his calls, and finally seeing his actual physical self in a zoom call this year, I was so excited, he was obviously LSE and no wonder he was driving me up a wall for no really good reason.
Hope that makes sense.
My supervising LSE is then you being supervised by LSE hahaha.
I am spawned from an LSE mother so here's what I've figured out in regards to havingfor years and
for minutes where she has that for days and
Oh yeah, in moments of weakness and hunger (i.e. when I'm rather hangry) I admit I tear into her and I immediately regret it and apologize rightfully soon after. I mean, how the hell can a woman who is otherwise more than capable of understanding how things work logically and efficiently (i.e. hasfor years/weeks) not understand where it all leads when it's so obvious!
Then there's the conflict between the fundamental worldviews to deal with. Supervisor relationships conflict on the Democratic/Aristocratic axis. The LSE puts way too much emphasis on credentials and official sources in my mind. She's way less willing to give some rando a chance if he insists he can do X than I am.
I'd just test the rando on some insider lingo and if he/she instantly got it they'd get a chance. After all, if you can already "talk shop" with someone you're either dealing with someone who knows what they're doing or a once in a century acting talent. Both are good and if the acting talent survives the trial somehow you've still gotten out ahead if ya know how to play that somehow.
This is blasphemy to her. Obviously if they were qualified they'd have the paperwork already organized or have some sort of official and accepted credential labeling them as being capable of the task. Frustration!
Still, like I keep pointing out the key to fixing any interpersonal relationship is fixing your attachment. As I've done so over the past year I've found that I've been savaging her less and actually coming to a logical and harmonious accord more frequently. When either she or I snap I can more often catch that, ask a better question as to the how and why over just going nuclear and attacking them somehow, and then de-escalate the whole situation.
If someone you care about snaps at you it's rarely for the reason you think or that they will tell you if asked. It wasn't that you forgot X at the grocery store, it was what they felt/perceived/was implied and that is why they're going off. It was their frustrated tone of voice for no good reason from my end that set me off. It was my patently obvious annoyance that they overlooked something utterly obvious to me that set them off. Why did we do that? Well, once we honestly lay out what happened from our ends it becomes obvious. A thing we can come to a mutual understanding over.
This is hard to do in the moment in regards to people who are involved in the more negative relationships. Still, even belated "good" interactions are better than reflexive negative and/or consciously shut down ones...
This makes sense dual-wise now, EII helps LSE see where things will lead if they don't ever consider their Fi self interests. Which means they usually burn themselves tf out helping out everyone else around them, which I've seen before "I Help everyone until I have nothing left and then no one helps me" EII: "I could have told you that hours ago before you got a hissy fit."I am spawned from an LSE mother so here's what I've figured out in regards to having
Oh yeah, in moments of weakness and hunger (i.e. when I'm rather hangry) I admit I tear into her and I immediately regret it and apologize rightfully soon after. I mean, how the hell can a woman who is otherwise more than capable of understanding how things work logically and efficiently (i.e. has
You know what my ILE roommate told me after I told him he drives me nuts, "Yea but like, being around you helps me be a better person.". What? Me constantly telling him he's a nut job with a sadistic streak? It felt like he was getting some benefit at my expense, like he thought I was being paid to put up with him.
I think we want from our supervisors what someone who has daddy issues wants from their dad, for them to some how say they are proud of us when using our PoLR.
I am really close to an ILI - my supervisee. I had to put my ego in check and not get frustrated with what I saw as his “passivity” in terms of dealing with people. Over the past few years, he’s taught me the value of how he sees people and processes things.
Saying that, it was super awkward dating each other. I wanted someone who was more assertive and he wanted someone more free-spirited.
Maybe that's what happens at least consciously. But supervision is always there as an unconscious background mood. I dislike that vague sense of discomfort, as if something was eating me from the inside. That's how I experience supervision from LSE, and it doesnt matter what they say or do. Sometimes I am not that aware of it but it's alwsys present like a vague illness or black magic.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
A long time ago I remember meeting a guy in a meet-ups group I regularly attended. He was a vet and we had a brief friendship. He told me how he was getting over someone- he met them on holiday and got married but it didn’t work out. He was at this point in his mid- thirties and really wanted to find someone- I think we both were curious about each other. But I had a crush on an ILI guy at the time. The vet guy was Estp-ti. I don’t think we were a great match but he was a nice guy and had quite a soft manner about him. I think he may be with an IEI lady now.
Recently I have started talking to someone and they seem pretty cool and they seem Estp-ti. It’s kind of nerve-wracking. Like when you have a crush on someone. With the added weirdness of knowing their type. And when it comes to duals that’s not always a good thing.
I think I need to just be positive, and think of it as a fun experience- whatever happens or doesn’t happen. I have other chats in the background too.
I have support from my IEE buddies, who can be quite good at dating advice.
Last edited by Bethany; 09-17-2022 at 09:08 AM.
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