Adventures in Dating

[Bethany]

@Bethany Do you remember where the Gulenko article is from?

it's from his book..about business relations

'In this relationship there is always a sense of security: each of them feels that the partner is non-threatening. This is very pleasant, especially if a person lives in an unfriendly environment'.

There is this article too, but it's about SEI/IEI mostly

Socionics - the16types.info - Business Relations INFp and ISFp by Stratiyevskaya

[Tallmo]

Hopefully, dating is not a lifestyle. Although, I suppose it could be, if you are not lucky.

@Tallmo, if you want to get on better terms with the woman who might be ILI, just ask her to plan the next date. Tell her you want to go somewhere interesting and get something to eat, and let her plan the details.
SEEs set the impulse and the direction, and ILIs set the details and the timing.

It also helps to act incredibly confident (but not mean) and hopelessly stupid about facts when around ILIs. It even helps to tell them that you are an idiot when it comes to details and facts. That's who they are looking for.


I've dated every introverted type in the socion (except SEIs), and, eventually, I got tired of imitating their Duals just to improve relations. But your mileage may vary.

I understand your point, and I have of course experienced it myself sometimes. But I am not good at taking a certain approach. I can't pretend to be her dual. If we meet again she might influence some dual like behaviour in me by her presence, and then it would be natural, but I wouldn't like to fake it.

And it's not like people necessarily need the dual in order to get things done either. So I rather forget about it if I can.

[EIE H]

My SLI friend basically said I am drawn to chaotic men and asked me if the LSI was like a drug… oof. I am supposedly two standard deviations from normal, according to him.

I hung out with LSI on Saturday for 12 hours and then the SLI yesterday for 6.5 hours. The two experiences were night and day. LSI took me to one of his favorite parks from his younger years, we had steak and salmon, and then chilled. SLI and I went to the state fair and it just wasn’t as fun and not as natural.

[Adam Strange]

My SLI friend basically said I am drawn to chaotic men and asked me if the LSI was like a drug… oof. I am supposedly two standard deviations from normal, according to him.

I hung out with LSI on Saturday for 12 hours and then the SLI yesterday for 6.5 hours. The two experiences were night and day. LSI took me to one of his favorite parks from his younger years, we had steak and salmon, and then chilled. SLI and I went to the state fair and it just wasn’t as fun and not as natural.

LSIs are not chaotic. LSIs are the opposite of chaotic.

[Bethany]

Oh I regret the way I talked to the interesting Estp. Not good….I hope there’s a serious lesson to be learnt. Socionics, I hope you’re finished scrambling my brain :/ I think I need a break from dates or I need to be ok with having on/off convos. And not rush to go on a date because dates can be quite exhausting and over-whelming, and catch up with you. Probably need to get better at setting up quick dates.

[persimmonism]

My first relationship-
we never should have dated.

I was never attracted him, and I didn't yet know how to listen to my inner voice. He even turned me off, yet, we started hooking up. He was my first. Eventually, he gave me an ultimatum and I told him we could date, but let's keep it a secret. After a couple months, I convinced myself that I was alright with telling other people, that I felt proud to be dating him, that I wanted to be with him...
He slowly stopped showing any physical desire for me. My number one love language is physical touch, and I'm an extremely physically passionate person. Because of internalized misogynistic shame surrounded sex, it took me ages to admit and address this with him, even though I hinted at it many times. It absolutely tormented me.
He then said it was due to having taken antidepressants (Prozac/Sertraline) that he had a low libido, but it still took him awhile, and a lot of truly depressing nights for me, for him to make an effort.
We went long distance for the summer, and I met my first love. I discovered what it feels like to truly be attracted to someone, and I cheated on him. Say what you want, but I will NEVER regret it. I only regret how I then dealt with the situation.
It felt hard to leave my ex because I was very codependent with him. We had always had an extremely codependent Fi/Te dynamic. At the time, he also seemed perfect on paper, completely checking all the boxes. Yet I knew to stay with him, to be forever bound in this comfortable, wholesome, lifeless, blanched relationship, would be to commit my own SPIRITUAL SUICIDE.
I told him I cheated, yet he still talked ME out of breaking up with him on two separate occasions, even though I had started becoming quite toxic to him. The third time I didn't let him stop me from ending it.
Afterwards, he told me that his libido had actually always been fine, and oftentimes he would masturbate himself before I arrived at his place. It didn't hurt because I had stopped caring a long time ago. Because I never had even liked him, not like that: beyond friendship.
Because I had finally accepted that I had never even been attracted to him at all either; just craving something so, so dearly, but from the wrong person.

To be sexual-blind is to not trust the subtle intelligence of attraction.
To be a sexual-blind 4 is to subliminally believe that you will never get the person you truly desire, need.

Yet there is this characteristic about myself: which my parents have always insisted on, which on the night we parted, my ex told me he realized about me: that I am someone who wants what I want, and when I want something, absolutely nothing stops me. Except, well, myself. But, clearly, even then.
And I suppose that's what it's like to be a sexual-blind, yet triple frustration, type. In some way, it's a terribly lucky counterbalance.

Is it possible to be traumatized from a relationship not because HE hurt you, but because the situation hurt you? AKA You hurt yourself by keeping yourself in the situation?
?

Because he was never toxic whatsoever. I WAS. His therapist said I'm probably bipolar. I'm NOT LOL. A desperately unhappy 4 at her wit's end, yes. The therapist said that my behavior basically screamed me trying to finally push HIM to just end it already. Yeah, that's what happens when you don't acknowledge your own deeper feelings. Just watch how convoluted and fucked up your own unconsciously-driven behavior will become.

So here's what happened that's making me think about this.
Today was the first day of class at university, and my 8am is in a huge lecture hall. My ex took the course last year. The prof explained the teaching staff- the profs, the TAs.. and then "Mentors" which are essentially students who previously took the class and aced it. On the next slide are 9 pictures of mentors in a 3x3 array, and there is my ex right smack in the middle of the collage on that huge screen in front of the class.
When I tell you how caught off guard and TERRIFIED I felt. I couldn't relax for another 20 minutes.

I told my mom and she said that's like a trauma response. I'm just trying to understand why I feel such a dramatic and traumatized-ish reaction when technically I'M the one who did the explicit hurting to him.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Is it possible to be traumatized from a relationship not because HE hurt you, but because the situation hurt you? AKA You hurt yourself by keeping yourself in the situation?
?

Because he was never toxic whatsoever. I WAS. His therapist said I'm probably bipolar. I'm NOT LOL. A desperately unhappy 4 at her wit's end, yes. The therapist said that my behavior basically screamed me trying to finally push HIM to just end it already. Yeah, that's what happens when you don't acknowledge your own deeper feelings. Just watch how convoluted and fucked up your own unconsciously-driven behavior will become.

So here's what happened that's making me think about this.
Today was the first day of class at university, and my 8am is in a huge lecture hall. My ex took the course last year. The prof explained the teaching staff- the profs, the TAs.. and then "Mentors" which are essentially students who previously took the class and aced it. On the next slide are 9 pictures of mentors in a 3x3 array, and there is my ex right smack in the middle of the collage on that huge screen in front of the class.
When I tell you how caught off guard and TERRIFIED I felt. I couldn't relax for another 20 minutes.

I told my mom and she said that's like a trauma response. I'm just trying to understand why I feel such a dramatic and traumatized-ish reaction when technically I'M the one who did the explicit hurting to him.

sx blind may imply trauma itself. some kind of mental framework that makes u act in a way thats not right but have somehow convinced urself it was. u said internalized misogynistic shame. u exposed something to someone that was shamed out of u, and then he used ur vulnerability to spite u when u had a weak moment and cheated. he may not even have masturbated before u would visit him but he said it as a revenge. or even if he had if he had bad intentions about it. that never got resolved. you used him and allowed urself to do that bc u believed the lies u were fed about sex and became what u should have fought against. i dont know if it would be right to blame you in the absolute sense. but i believe if someone admits their fault and has guilt for real meaning they attempt and walk the very harsh path to change themselves they shouldnt be punished/revenged against. maybe this means u havent changed something very important about urself that resulted in ur harming him, so u cant face him when u are still like that. if hes angry and rightfully so u may be afraid of that.

[simpin is pimpin]

@persimmonism I agree with scawwy in that it sounds like he was quite toxic. It’s most worrying that you thought he was “never toxic whatsoever” and you were unable to see this. It’s a survival adaptation to turn a blind eye to the faults of someone you’re dependent on. I would look at that blind eye with your other eye if I were you, especially since assumingly you aren’t dependent on him anymore yet you still think that way about him.

[persimmonism]

@born2simp
@VewyScawwyNawcissist
Yeah, you know, my closest friends often slightly raised their eyebrows at certain things he did that I told him about. It's hard for me to imagine him as having been toxic, though. It always felt like if they knew the context it wouldn't sound toxic. What do we define toxic as then? It must be quite subtle in this case..?
I also hesitate to believe your assessments on whether or not he was toxic because as a type 4 I am quite aware of my tendency to unconsciously frame myself as the victim. Just want to point it out just in case..

I don't care much to figure out who was to blame more because it feels like it just is what it was. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly happened now that I have some more perspective.

No, I know for a fact he didn't lie to me. The most he could do is lie by omission, which is what he did, until he finally did tell me that.

What do you mean I used him? Do you mean by how I became dependent on him? If so, I believe that was his unconscious thing of how to keep me, as well. It was two-fold is what I'm saying.
(As are rejection types. He is intensely etype 5. 5's cut off their bodies, their hearts, they're basically floating heads. Therefore they need you to need their knowledge. In type 2 it's more explicit with how they force their care onto you. Type 8 it's with their strength.)

By the way, he told me these things in this weird period when we still somewhat talked after I broke up with him. So yeah, he was definitely upset and told me a lot of things to spite me and try and get under my skin, but it's alright, I get it, that urge to hurt me back. (joke's on him, i already did that myself without his help RIP)

I don't feel very guilty, idk it's weird but my sense of guilt has always felt somewhat broken. It's just not really there.. So I wouldn't say I'm scared of him out of guilt. I have been thinking about this actually: I suspect it's more this feeling, now that I'm back in the city where I go to university, that I want to see no one that I knew last year at all, anymore. I just want nothing to do with the old life I had and specifically the Me that existed when he was in my life. It does not sit right. Everything about how it and I was feels wrong now. Disgusting. It feels very 1-ish what I am writing. I have quite a strong 1 fix, for the record.

Oh, and trust me.. I have taken so many long, hard looks at myself ever since we ended. It's still a work in progress, but I have come a long way. still far more to go =(

Well, here's a thing:
After we broke up I didn't think about him at all for a few months. Not in a secretly-anxious trying-to-distract 7 way: he simply wasn't on my mind. Then, actually, on the day I wrote my first post, it was because my best friend asked me about what exactly happened when it ended, so I told everything, and all of a sudden, now with a few months distance, I started thinking about it again. Not him per se, more about how our relationship was. And the anger. Oh my god, it has come so intensely, it feels like out of nowhere. Not sure what to make of it.

tl;dr SOMETHING was toxic, clearly, as something really doesn't seem to be sitting right with me. was it really him too though? and not just the shitty situation that BOTH of us put ourselves into?


p.s. NO, sexual blind does not imply trauma. WTH. you're born with the stacking you're born with and it's normal to accumulate neuroses and weird ideas relevant to your blindspot in particular (and dominant). it's just the nature of the beast.

p.s.s. Also, i am only 19, so please forgive any potential immaturity in how I am thinking

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

@persimmonism
if u hooked up with him without being sexually attracted, he may sense that and affect him even if ur not overt about it. its like u lied to him about being attracted to him, and he may have actually been attracted to you. then u kept it going with him when u were not the kind of person who would actually stay with him. this is if i understood ur story correctly. he wanted to keep you, like any sane human being wants to keep soemone in a relationship. he didnt want to hook up but wanted a relationship. and maybe he even wanted a relationship because he sensed something was wrong, but didnt know what it was so maybe a relationship would shed some light.
i dont know why he stopped getting attracted to you, if it was bc he was toxic and really not seeing the person in front of him, or becuase you were.

for stacking i recall it said it fluctuates.

[Bethany]

Is it possible to be traumatized from a relationship not because HE hurt you, but because the situation hurt you? AKA You hurt yourself by keeping yourself in the situation?
?
So here's what happened that's making me think about this.
Today was the first day of class at university, and my 8am is in a huge lecture hall. My ex took the course last year. The prof explained the teaching staff- the profs, the TAs.. and then "Mentors" which are essentially students who previously took the class and aced it. On the next slide are 9 pictures of mentors in a 3x3 array, and there is my ex right smack in the middle of the collage on that huge screen in front of the class.
When I tell you how caught off guard and TERRIFIED I felt. I couldn't relax for another 20 minutes.

I told my mom and she said that's like a trauma response. I'm just trying to understand why I feel such a dramatic and traumatized-ish reaction when technically I'M the one who did the explicit hurting to him.

No one wants to see their ex on a screen in their lecture hall but let’s hope the next time you see him or hear of him it won’t be quite as bad as that..

yes, you can feel traumatised by a situation. I’m sure some fault lies with him too- and I’m
sure he’ll learn something from the experience. It’ll take some time to move on, but you will work through it. It might feel chaotic thinking about it and intense, but this will decrease over time. You will gain some insight..and you will feel normal again. I’m not sure how to make the process quicker/ easier- distractions, fun activities with girl friends..Let yourself feel stuff, it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t make sense, write it down..I think it’s pretty hard to understand a break up/ break down in a romantic relationship..we try..I think the understanding happens on a more unconscious level..give yourself a bit of time.

[Bethany]

So I’m still chatting to an Esfp. Lol I’m so lame writing about guys I haven’t even met yet- not exactly dating lol. Anyway, if I meet the guy I’m not gonna talk about him on here unless it’s to ask for specific advice.


Re the dual I had a strange interaction with…I did manage to find him on social media. So I could get in touch with him
one day if I really wanted to…and see if he might change his mind. I’m not sure what went wrong but perhaps it wasn’t meant to be.


I feel like all the best duals got snapped up at the start of the pandemic when everyone was using dating apps. That combined with the fact it can be really hard to communicate with duals initially. I read somewhere that beta and delta duals have a harder time communicating than alpha/gamma duals. What does that mean for dating apps..


I think it can help if you have a natural spark, but that’s hard to find in someone in general on a dating app.


I think there is a significant difference in the ‘quality’ of semi-dual and dual relationships, but semi-duals are still exciting and loveable..and far better than some other types, and have a good chance of working long term. I have my eye on another SEI too, maybe at this point in my life I need some SF love.

[Lady Lunacy]

I'm with my LIE again. I feel bad for some of the things I said on here about him, because some things were actually my own PTSD talking. When we get into fights it sometimes triggers it. I learned my lesson about using public spaces for venting.

[Park]

I'm with myself again. Gonna fire up the BBQ for labor day and fix myself some juicy steak.

[Miss Messy]

I had dated my SLI friend for one day

We were bored so we decided to date each other for a day without even talking like a partners

He's in a relationship with a IEE girl but they are about to break up , they decided to let it open for a while to see how everything will go

His IEE girlfriend did the same thing

Anyway, I felt bored more than I was before

[Bethany]

I miss my IEE crush I worked with a few years ago. I could actually see us being in each other's lives again. My sister also had a crush/ short term relationship with a contrary partner and she says she knows she'll always be friends with him. Something special about this dynamic..when it's good. I don't think I can be friends with many males I admire or fancy so it would be nice if we reunited one day. Just thinking about these pairs together is cute- the sweet SEI loving the unappreciated SEE..aww.

edit:

I feel like this relation (for friendship mainly) is potentially really good for people who are depressives/ anxious and need to feel love and passion. I'm sure other ITR are better 'quality' but this one just feels extremely special to me. Knowing there are IEEs out there I can befriend if I need to, is a great comfort to me. They help me to keep going and cheer me up. Even if sometimes they give me unhelpful advice, the good advice more than makes up for it. And they find something to love in me and it feels very real.

I keep thinking about types/ subtypes and gender....and what makes a friendship/ relationship feel passionate/ romantic/ close.

[Adam Strange]

There is a married LIE manager at a company that we work with who has information-coordination meetings on Zoom every week.

He recently started working with an ESI finance guy and he’s fallen in love. Lol. He’s fallen into a supportive Duality, and now he wants everyone to meet this guy.

I’m happy for the two of them, but it’s kind of strange to see how much the LIE likes the ESI. Almost too much, it seems. The LIE is not aware of why he thinks this ESI guy is so great, but he knows that he is.

I can’t really fault him for that. I probably look the same way when I’m out with the 27 yo ESI-Se decorator. “Oh, you see an incompatibility because of our age difference? Well, fuck off, bud. She and I are together against the world.”

Of course, we’re “together” primarily in a Socionics sense. There really are some huge differences which, when I gloss over them, lead to trouble. Duality has a seductive quality to it which can make you throw caution to the wind, and it’s only later that you see where and why you went wrong. Duals don’t cover all your screw ups.

Nevertheless, I think that Socionics explains 80% of team-building.

[Adam Strange]

When I was dating an LSI female, back when I was 25 years old, I kind of fell in love with her. For sure, the sex was fantastic, so I tried really hard to tell myself that I also loved her. I even managed to tell her that once.

This "all or nothing" thing might be a flaw in the design of 1D Fi people.

Anyway, to an LIE like myself, a relationship with an LSI is called Mirage, and for reasons that I didn't understand at the time, I didn't want my friends to meet her. I mean, we lived with each other, but neither of us wanted to bring our friends into the relationship, or tell anyone at work (which is where we met) that we were seeing each other.

The exact same thing happened to me right after my divorce. I met an LSI through a group we both belong to, we started having great sex but never introduced each other to our friends, and neither of us wanted the group to find out that we were seeing each other.

I don't think that these two events were similar by accident.

[Bethany]

@Adam Strange yeah when I think of the ILEs I’ve fancied..they seem special, but I can’t put my finger on why. And I have a dear ILE friend. He is young and in a relationship and I don’t like him like that…but I don’t think we can hang out one to one really. I like his group of friends so it shouldn’t matter for now, I think we both want to have intimate conversations because we have a good connection..but I think we have to revolve the friendship around our shared interest and not each other..it’s a way of keeping it intimate but not too intimate. Can try anyway. It’s kinda the opposite problem to what you mention…finding a way to hold on to the intimacy without having true intimacy lol

But I think if I dated an ILE I would be ok showing them off to my friends..I see your point about 1D fi.

The ILE needs to be quite special for me to notice them

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange yeah when I think of the ILEs I’ve fancied..they seem special, but I can’t put my finger on why. And I have a dear ILE friend. He is young and in a relationship and I don’t like him like that…but I don’t think we can hang out one to one really. I like his group of friends so it shouldn’t matter for now, I think we both want to have intimate conversations because we have a good connection..but I think we have to revolve the friendship around our shared interest and not each other..it’s a way of keeping it intimate but not too intimate. Can try anyway. It’s kinda the opposite problem to what you mention…finding a way to hold on to the intimacy without having true intimacy lol

But I think if I dated an ILE I would be ok showing them off to my friends..I see your point about 1D fi.

The ILE needs to be quite special for me to notice them

@Bethany, I have no problem at all with introducing any of the ESIs that I know to my friends.

However, the ESIs seem to be a lot slower to admit me into their lives.

There is a description somewhere of dating ESIs which says that if they don’t invite you into their house, your chances with them are almost nonexistent. Their friend circle might be similar.

[Tallmo]

It's funny. I have been talking on Tinder with this woman/girl for almost 2 months. Seemed nice and ok looking. She was very busy and was on vacation traveling. Kept in touch all the time. We didn't manage to find a time to meet. Then last week she told me she was back in town, and I immediately suggested we should meet. Her reply: "Unfortunately not this week because my mom is visiting and I have to entertain her, and on Saturday we have a family gathering and on Sunday I am going horse back riding."

She is probably LSE anyway and I have kindof lost my interest anyway. I'm dropping her. If you can't find a time for a date for 2 months despite living in the same town then it's not that sexy anymore.

[EIE H]

Why do men keep implying that I am the exception to the rule compared to most women? Like it doesn’t feel like a compliment that it’s supposed to be like it’s slightly misogynistic. Lol

[Adam Strange]

Why do men keep implying that I am the exception to the rule compared to most women? Like it doesn’t feel like a compliment that it’s supposed to be like it’s slightly misogynistic. Lol

@EIE H, you might learn a lot by asking them what they think the rule is, and why you are an exception to it.

[EIE H]

@EIE H, you might learn a lot by asking them what they think the rule is, and why you are an exception to it.

I am “logical” for a woman. I am a “good girl” compared to most “bitches” they have been with. Those are some of the supposed reasons from the guys’ mouths…. Yikes.

[Adam Strange]

I am “logical” for a woman. I am a “good girl” compared to most “bitches” they have been with. Those are some of the supposed reasons from the guys’ mouths…. Yikes.

“Yikes”, indeed.

[Eliza Thomason]

As I was eating breakfast this morning, I looked out my back window and saw my ex-wife in the back yard. I haven't seen or talked to her in six months.
I've been having the back yard landscaped, and apparently, she decided to inspect it for reasons beyond my knowing.

I walked outside and said Hi to her, and she said she was "just passing by and wanted to see what was going on." She looked at the new brick boundary to the rose bushes and she said it looked nice. I said it was done by my (ESI) decorator. My ex removed her sun hat and fiddled with the cloth ties in the back. I told her the hat looked nice, and she said she'd had it for years and she loved it. It had faded in the sun to an exact shade of color which highlighted her natural hair color.

She carefully repositioned a bobby pin in the hat, and I was struck by the relentless Si that she was presenting. I found it slightly annoying. What a contrast to the easy, and this-could-be-your-future, feelings I have when I'm around the ESI.

How could I have not known this before I got married, when I was dating a lot? I think the answer is that my Delta parents steered me away from the person I actually am and the preferences that I naturally have, and I hadn't yet figured out who and what I needed.





*EDIT*
Why did she think she could just walk into the back yard and inspect things, when we're divorced and I haven't seen her in half a year?
A year after we were divorced, I had to ask her to give me back the keys to the house, because she'd just unlock the front door and walk in unannounced, any time of the day or night, and would immediately go upstairs to inspect the bedroom and bathroom (for signs of my dating life, I assume) before coming back down and saying "Hi, Adam." Fucking hell.

It's because she's my Supervisor, and when you're around your Supervisor, YOU'RE ALWAYS ON THEIR TERRITORY.
It's also because, really, my sense of boundaries sucks.

*Like*

[My like button still doesn't work, after all these months]

[Eliza Thomason]

This wasn’t a date, but it applies to ESI-LIE dating.

My waitress last night was attentive and competent but not demonstrative. While ordering, she and I just kept talking, almost as if a conversation was the natural state of nature.
I saw that she had pastel pink fingernails and decided that she was probably an ESI, but I thought I’d try to be sure.

I asked her (she was in college) if she was studying to go into some field where she helps disadvantaged people in society, maybe at a government level?
She told me that that’s exactly what she is studying. “Not to run the agency, you understand, but to help the CEO get things done.”
“And do you divide the world into two groups; the Good, and the Bad? And you never tell them which group they are in?”
Now she was staring at me, but trying not to stare, as if it wasn’t unusual to meet a guy who knows how you secretly operate.
She wasn’t wearing a ring.

”I think you are an introvert”, and she started to object but held herself back, “and you know exactly how you, yourself, value things, and are a sensor in the sense that you know what looks best on you. You are an Artist with yourself as the canvas. You take care of things right in front of you immediately because who knows what might happen in the future, and you could use some help with facts and money.
”Furthermore, you are a Judger because you have a Plan for your life. You aren’t one of those people who just takes life as it comes and says Oh, whatever happens, happens. It’s all fine with me.”

Now, I was kind of being a jerk, but she ignored that like a normal ESI is immune to assholes and broke into a big smile and said “Yes, I’d say that’s all true. How do you know this?”

”I can tell what type you are because your personality comes out in your face.” She seemed pleased with this thought. Some ESIs know they look good and take secret, but barely disguised pride in that fact.

”Let me tell you why I’m saying this. You have a psychological profile”, and here she looked alarmed, “which you share with about twelve percent of the population. There is a best match for you, but they only comprise a very small part of the population, so if you are going to find your very best romantic match in life, you need to know what you are looking for. Look up the word ENTJ.”

My dinner companion, an ENTJ himself, said “About two percent, I believe.”

”Now”, I continued, “how can you identify these guys? If you look up ‘ENTJ’, you’ll find that a lot of them run businesses and are assholes. Which just goes with the personality traits they get. But how can you see them?
”Well, it just so happens that you’re talking to two of your best matches right now.”

She looked at my friend. She didn’t seem impressed.

I laughed and said to her, “Now, that was a really roundabout come-on, don’t you think?”

She ignored that and reached for a pen and paper. “ENTJ?”

”Yes. There are online tests you can give to your prospective boyfriends.”

”Well, I’ve been going with a guy for three years. I hope he’s a good match.”

”Do you have a picture of him?”

”Yes.” She reached in her pocket for her phone. I’m always amazed at how free some people are with their private lives.

Anyway, this brings me to the whole point of this post. In over six years of looking, looking, looking for ESI-LIE Dual pairs, I’ve seen only three.

She showed me a picture of herself with a big, contented smile on her face, cheek to cheek with a guy who was a dead ringer for an LIE. They looked happy.

She somehow got it right, without any outside help.

Maybe the world really is getting to be a better place.

*Like*

I think yours are the posts I miss the most here, Adam. Such good Socionics insight. How nice you were able to tell this girl she really had the right guy, too.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

time to feel obligated to act the way they want u to off their shitty presumptions or throw their expectations out the window so they start seething about how u are covert mousey and manipulative. this is my personal experience. it was actually described in "please understand me" that NFs treat others well but this is taken by others as if the NF likes them in particular bc most ppl are just shitty and dont know how to be nice.

[Renna]

I am “logical” for a woman. I am a “good girl” compared to most “bitches” they have been with. Those are some of the supposed reasons from the guys’ mouths…. Yikes.

I think most of the "logical" part come from your Ni... Ni can make people feel you are smart and easy to get/understand something. And combine it with 4d Fe...

If people think your are smart, they may think you are a "logical" person.

[Lord Pixel]

I think most of the "logical" part come from your Ni... Ni can make people feel you are smart and easy to get/understand something. And combine it with 4d Fe...

If people think your are smart, they may think you are a "logical" person.

I disagree, Ni does not make people look logical. Often times it makes them look crazy until they are proven right, then they look "wise".

[Lord Pixel]

She and I are together against the world.”

I feel like this is gamma duality in a nutshell, very bonnie and clyde.

[Lord Pixel]

I miss my IEE crush I worked with a few years ago. I could actually see us being in each other's lives again. My sister also had a crush/ short term relationship with a contrary partner and she says she knows she'll always be friends with him. Something special about this dynamic..when it's good. I don't think I can be friends with many males I admire or fancy so it would be nice if we reunited one day. Just thinking about these pairs together is cute- the sweet SEI loving the unappreciated SEE..aww.

edit:

I feel like this relation (for friendship mainly) is potentially really good for people who are depressives/ anxious and need to feel love and passion. I'm sure other ITR are better 'quality' but this one just feels extremely special to me. Knowing there are IEEs out there I can befriend if I need to, is a great comfort to me. They help me to keep going and cheer me up. Even if sometimes they give me unhelpful advice, the good advice more than makes up for it. And they find something to love in me and it feels very real.

I keep thinking about types/ subtypes and gender....and what makes a friendship/ relationship feel passionate/ romantic/ close.

This was my exact experience. I hung around guys way too different from me and I didn't fit in with them, it was an EIE who pulled me to the side and made me realize there's nothing wrong with me I don't have to fit in with those guys, we became like brothers. But we actually got too close and problems started to arise, and now we are like distant brothers, still brothers though.

And I think SEI/SEE is common.

[AWellArmedCat]

Why do men keep implying that I am the exception to the rule compared to most women? Like it doesn’t feel like a compliment that it’s supposed to be like it’s slightly misogynistic. Lol

A lot of men are probably more used to feeling like the rule rather than the exception and would love it if women told them they were the exception. More than likely they're just telling you what they themselves would like to hear

[Bethany]

This was my exact experience. I hung around guys way too different from me and I didn't fit in with them, it was an EIE who pulled me to the side and made me realize there's nothing wrong with me I don't have to fit in with those guys, we became like brothers. But we actually got too close and problems started to arise, and now we are like distant brothers, still brothers though.

And I think SEI/SEE is common.

Maybe EIE/EII doesn’t work as well as IEE/IEI. I read on here that EIE get bored of people…but maybe in the end they realise who their true friends are. My IEE friends are like family too, I had a much closer IEE friend but we had a big fall out. (Def not perfect..) My closest friends used to be IEE/ILI/SLI but the closeness made it difficult to remain friends with them. I didn’t like that they knew me so well, when I wanted to escape my past. If things had been more normal, perhaps I would have naturally put up some boundaries without feeling a need to end things. Also had an EII friend which feels even more complicated lol. Sometimes I marvel that I’ve managed to make new friends..

ESE/SEI seems common too.

[Tallmo]

Had a Tinder date yesterday. Was exciting because has been a month since I met somebody new from Tinder. Her profile picture seemed introverted and serious, and in her messages she seemed nice and polite. Talked about ordinary stuff, like that we live close to each other, and what she has been doing with her son. Maybe SEI or even SLI?? Worst case scenario: LSE? We decided to go for a walk. She immediately recognized me. She was all Fe and surprisingly extraverted: " Hi! Nice to meet you, shall we kiss on the cheek like the French? (kiss) (kiss)". Very nice and sort of down to earth. Not snobbish at all. I knew she is Russian but her grandmother was Karelian. She speaks Finnish fluently, but with an accent (I noticed that the second we met). The first minutes are always interesting, types running trough my head. I settled for EJ for the time being. But didn't take long for me to get enough data to finalize her as EIE. Maybe C or N, not so easy to tell. And, she is a teacher (how original for an EIE, lol). I felt her Fe was a little too much, though. She's really nice, but I felt the amount of Fe made me feel uncomfortable. We talked almost all the time because of her high energy. I didn't feel that we are compatible, like I feel with some ESEs.

[crazymaisy]

Had a Tinder date yesterday. Was exciting because has been a month since I met somebody new from Tinder. Her profile picture seemed introverted and serious, and in her messages she seemed nice and polite. ... The first minutes are always interesting, types running trough my head. I settled for EJ for the time being. But didn't take long for me to get enough data to finalize her as EIE. Maybe C or N, not so easy to tell. And, she is a teacher (how original for an EIE, lol). I felt her Fe was a little too much, though. She's really nice, but I felt the amount of Fe made me feel uncomfortable. We talked almost all the time because of her high energy. I didn't feel that we are compatible, like I feel with some ESEs.

You SEI and she EIE --> exactly same as my parents .. My Dad SEI and Mom EIE. It can work but with careful wise supervision to her. My Dad made it bad for my Mom, and therefore her to me not great at all but one interaction in my elementary years that was my only good memory of her and me together.

Bottom Line is, relationships all take work so ... go forth and conquer!

[Tallmo]

You SEI and she EIE --> exactly same as my parents .. My Dad SEI and Mom EIE. It can work but with careful wise supervision to her. My Dad made it bad for my Mom, and therefore her to me not great at all but one interaction in my elementary years that was my only good memory of her and me together.

Bottom Line is, relationships all take work so ... go forth and conquer!

Well yes work is always needed. But I feel so much more chemistry with for example ESE so I dont think I will go forward on this one.

I am not picky. Any decent looking and nice Alpha (+IEE) will do.

[Tallmo]

You SEI and she EIE --> exactly same as my parents .. My Dad SEI and Mom EIE. It can work but with careful wise supervision to her. My Dad made it bad for my Mom, and therefore her to me not great at all but one interaction in my elementary years that was my only good memory of her and me together.

Bottom Line is, relationships all take work so ... go forth and conquer!

So you are sure your parents are supervisors? I know of one couple but they divorced. My parents are business LSI+ESI and they had LOTS of friction and bad communication over the years.

Problem with supervision: how do you get psychologically more intimate? The bad impact is always there and the supervisee is going to feel slightly inferior although she does not know why. Now when I met the EIE I was the one to feel inferior or slightly uncomfortable but this was only on the surface. If we would break the ice things would change. I know EIEs are uncomfortable around me, and it's strange becsuse I am so simple and they seem more advanced. But I also dont like the somewhat superior attitude it creates in me. It comes after some time with them. Because I am so relaxed and they are not.

[crazymaisy]

So you are sure your parents are supervisors? I know of one couple but they divorced. My parents are business LSI+ESI and they had LOTS of friction and bad communication over the years.

Problem with supervision: how do you get psychologically more intimate? The bad impact is always there and the supervisee is going to feel slightly inferior although she does not know why. Now when I met the EIE I was the one to feel inferior or slightly uncomfortable but this was only on the surface. If we would break the ice things would change. I know EIEs are uncomfortable around me, and it's strange becsuse I am so simple and they seem more advanced. But I also dont like the somewhat superior attitude it creates in me. It comes after some time with them. Because I am so relaxed and they are not.

Yes, I am sure. They are both dead now, so I can't actually talk to them or anything. It was a very weird household. My mother got more neurotic as time went on. I was the last child, of 5. Basically my Dad didn't support my Mother's needs, and that, or lack of, with supervision, broke her.

SEI are Alpha, EIE are Beta.

EIE have an aristocracy thing about them.

I can't really say what it feels like to be SEI supervisor to EIE

I can say how I feel when LSE is talking to my husband on speaker phone, I feel compelled to listen and want to tell him a thing or two that isn't so, to that LSE (but I don't do that.) It's an innate feeling I always had hearing his calls, and finally seeing his actual physical self in a zoom call this year, I was so excited, he was obviously LSE and no wonder he was driving me up a wall for no really good reason.

Hope that makes sense.

My supervising LSE is then you being supervised by LSE hahaha.

[End]

Problem with supervision: how do you get psychologically more intimate? The bad impact is always there and the supervisee is going to feel slightly inferior although she does not know why. Now when I met the EIE I was the one to feel inferior or slightly uncomfortable but this was only on the surface. If we would break the ice things would change. I know EIEs are uncomfortable around me, and it's strange becsuse I am so simple and they seem more advanced. But I also dont like the somewhat superior attitude it creates in me. It comes after some time with them. Because I am so relaxed and they are not.

I am spawned from an LSE mother so here's what I've figured out in regards to having for years and for minutes where she has that for days and for seconds. Humility, understanding, and a refusal to give into that most primordial of sins. Pride.

Oh yeah, in moments of weakness and hunger (i.e. when I'm rather hangry) I admit I tear into her and I immediately regret it and apologize rightfully soon after. I mean, how the hell can a woman who is otherwise more than capable of understanding how things work logically and efficiently (i.e. has for years/weeks) not understand where it all leads when it's so obvious!

Then there's the conflict between the fundamental worldviews to deal with. Supervisor relationships conflict on the Democratic/Aristocratic axis. The LSE puts way too much emphasis on credentials and official sources in my mind. She's way less willing to give some rando a chance if he insists he can do X than I am.

I'd just test the rando on some insider lingo and if he/she instantly got it they'd get a chance. After all, if you can already "talk shop" with someone you're either dealing with someone who knows what they're doing or a once in a century acting talent. Both are good and if the acting talent survives the trial somehow you've still gotten out ahead if ya know how to play that somehow.

This is blasphemy to her. Obviously if they were qualified they'd have the paperwork already organized or have some sort of official and accepted credential labeling them as being capable of the task. Frustration!

Still, like I keep pointing out the key to fixing any interpersonal relationship is fixing your attachment. As I've done so over the past year I've found that I've been savaging her less and actually coming to a logical and harmonious accord more frequently. When either she or I snap I can more often catch that, ask a better question as to the how and why over just going nuclear and attacking them somehow, and then de-escalate the whole situation.

If someone you care about snaps at you it's rarely for the reason you think or that they will tell you if asked. It wasn't that you forgot X at the grocery store, it was what they felt/perceived/was implied and that is why they're going off. It was their frustrated tone of voice for no good reason from my end that set me off. It was my patently obvious annoyance that they overlooked something utterly obvious to me that set them off. Why did we do that? Well, once we honestly lay out what happened from our ends it becomes obvious. A thing we can come to a mutual understanding over.

This is hard to do in the moment in regards to people who are involved in the more negative relationships. Still, even belated "good" interactions are better than reflexive negative and/or consciously shut down ones...