Adventures in Dating

[Miss Maverick]

I am in some ways still a textbook Fearful-Avoidant, and in some ways closer to secure. At the moment, I see more FA. Numb and distracted for the first 3-4 weeks after a breakup. Not type related, it is attachment style related. I'm still in chill mode, like

[Aquamarine]

People who are constantly trying/ actively dating to find relationships...don't you ever get tired? This is not supposed to be a judgmental question btw, I'm genuinely curious as to how people go out of their way for this stuff after a while (admittedly I think this way since I've had predominantly bad experiences). At some point you just don't get discouraged and say fuck it, I'm done?

[RileyPichuCake]

I've embraced the light. Good vibing is the optimal state of humanity. Good vibes reinforce each other. Therefore everyone should always vibe as hard as possible.

Yes, our thoughts, energies, and internal states influence everything. It's a matter of faith and friendship, forging the stars for a higher path tomorrow, to write the systems and equations of eternity, and to live under the promise that we will always get stronger.

[Bethany]

People who are constantly trying/ actively dating to find relationships...don't you ever get tired? This is not supposed to be a judgmental question btw, I'm genuinely curious as to how people go out of their way for this stuff after a while (admittedly I think this way since I've had predominantly bad experiences). At some point you just don't get discouraged and say fuck it, I'm done?

I think it is something you can adjust to, you can take breaks..do it less frequently. But it also feels good that you’re trying. And you do learn from it, even from dating app dates. I’ve been on apps for a couple of years, only really looking seriously for a year. You start to get a feel for what type of person seems worthy. Often, it’s someone you think is cute and seems interested but a bit shy. (Coz they fancy you?) not many of these come along. And you get distracted by all sorts of other people. You have annoying dates and you have humbling dates. (The humbling ones were still a bit annoying :s) I didn’t like referring to it as dating before..seems like a joke lol. Maybe you have to laugh. I think you can also learn to spot people who have potential but might not be ‘like at first sight’. These are also not that common. I feel more positive about it than I did six months ago. It doesn’t feel so confusing now.

[Tallmo]

People who are constantly trying/ actively dating to find relationships...don't you ever get tired? This is not supposed to be a judgmental question btw, I'm genuinely curious as to how people go out of their way for this stuff after a while (admittedly I think this way since I've had predominantly bad experiences). At some point you just don't get discouraged and say fuck it, I'm done?

I was away from the dating scene for many years. Didn't have the motivation. This might be different for men and women, but the more women I meet the more energy and inspiration I get. It's still a long road for me to get back into dating, but it's like lighting a fire. First the fire is small and it almost dies, but then it grows and grows and the heat produces more heat. That's how dating works for me.

So once you're in it the energy comes from the dating itself. It's not anymore something you have to force yourself to do, although that's how it can be in the beginning.

Psychologically, men have to meet women in order to project their own Anima on them. The Anima is the image of the feminine and is connected to (erotic) inspiration and life. The more the man can project the Anima the more active and inspired he gets. At the same time, the more distinguished the man becomes as a masculine subject acting in the world.

[adage]

LSE pen pal made another future marriage remark. We were talking about cooking, and he commented that his mom said his future wife will be happy that he knows how to cook.

Note to self: Don't presume that a guy continuing to bring up future marriage/children means that he's interested in more than being friends.

I made this presumption about my LSE pen pal and thus decided to ask how old he was. I think the question made him aware that I was misreading his comments, because he said: "I actually just turned 34. I hope that's okay with you for penpal purposes lol."

I think he added the bolded portion to clarify that he just wants to be pen-pal buddies. I feel a little embarrassed about my false presumption and the fact that he seems to have caught onto it, but this is for the best anyways. Another silly pen-pal romance would be a bad idea.

Edit:
Also, I don't think I realized how significant the 19/34 age gap was until I brought it up to my sister. I was like "eh, early thirties—that's still pretty young."

But she was like, "In five years you'll be 24 and he'll be almost forty."

And then I realized, "Oh... yeah, that would be weird."

I don't know if he's like me but at times I'll say stuff that come off as confusing without meaning it because there's some unresolved feeling behind it.
One day, I told a guy his step mom really wanted him and I to get together, I said that because I was actually angry at her about it and he took it the wrong way. oop
I also find being told some hypothetical life partner will be lucky to have me aggravating.
It's a possibility among others.

[godslave]

The last date I had was an Omiai like date. It was the first "official" date of my life. But before the date a little bit of context. The action took place in an muslim country. I remember being invited with my parents and some other family members for dinner to the house of the brother of my father's friend. without knowing that there was something behind this invitation. At some point in the evening my father and the man had a private conversation on the second floor of the house (which is actually a fitted roof ) shortly after they came back we decided to go home. In the way home, my father said to me that he had a conversation with the man about his daughter and that they came to an agreement, the lady's father has accepted to let his daughter be my "fiancée" so she and I can date ( it's complicated but I give you the short version).

I didn't even see the lady before that evening. I was literally in defcon 3 mode inside, I thought that never in my life would I have thought that I could find myself in a situation like this. What was my father thinking ? That we were living in the middle ages ?! Or that we were in some kind of archaic tribal society ?? Why did he always behave with me as if I was his thing, I mean he would never even begin to think about doing something like that to any of my siblings ! As usual, I didn't show my anger, not even expressed my disagreement because I couldn't talk about such thing with my father, It would have been weird to me. Anyway, I did "date" the lady. It went well but she wasn't my type at all. She was a pious muslim and quite introverted. At some point she came in our house and spend two days with us along with her aunt. I understood that she was deeply in love with me which was the worst case scenario. From that point, I knew that I was going to break her heart, and that feeling was unbearable to me. After about a month or so, I "broke up" with her. In fact the situation was a bit more complicated than that, especially for her. Maybe one day I'll talk about this adventure and how it ended in more details. It was the summer of 2007.

[RileyPichuCake]

@Lady Lotus, the descriptions are fairly long and are best viewed in the original book, which is available from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Please-Unders...s%2C145&sr=8-3

in the 1984 edition of the book by Keirsey, Please Understand Me (not "Please Understand Me II), the description of what Keirsey thinks the ENTJ is looking for can be found on page 73, and Keirsey's description of the romantic behavior and wishes of an ISFP (an ESI, in my opinion), can be found on pages 79 through 82.

You can download a pdf copy of the book here: http://www.sssch.net/Admin/ckfinder/...erstand_Me.pdf

I actually read a lot of Keirsey, and decided that Pokémon 493 Arceus could be the Architect INTP based on name, and that Lugia (other Arceus form) could be in a TiNi loop, or ISTP.

Frankly, I think Lugia is much more like INFP than ISTP, and also that Lugia’s Bunny, 17’1 long like 11 Bunny ears.

I actually struggle with relating to NJ Ni using types. All of this leadership and far futuristic thinking strategy is alien to me. I relate best to Ne and ISTP, building ideas and whirling off in crazy directions to be as remote from tangibility as possibility threads zip and channel flow.

And I relate horribly with ISFP. I don’t focus on the real world physical future. Rather, I focus more on transcendent themes. So for me, ISTP>ISFP. ISFP is a lot more practical than ISTP anyway, which is like what I said about the real world physical future. Dario Nardi EEGs proved that ISFP use Purposeful Futurist extremely well. And about ISFPs being small, that’s the opposite of Bunny, aimed at world domination and building the bridge to the invisible, whereas ISFPs don’t like being bullshitted. ISFP EEG showed they focus on lie detection, not Bunny switching spectra polarities of phenomena dreaming like a free Imagination.

[Aquamarine]

I don't know if I already wrote this here...I think I did...but

The one and only date I ever went on was at the start of 2020 with random dude I met online lol I didn't like him but I wasn't thinking about that at the time ( I just thought he was cute). As soon as we met I already found myself thinking about things I didn't like about him...behavioral stuff. Like not walking next to me, or not opening doors lol I don't care if you're tall don't walk away and leave me behind. And I think I mentioned about how he wouldn't stop asking me to go home with him like in the middle of the date...I found it creepy and thought he was trying to get me drunk to take advantage of me. "Like I don't want to go back to your house to drink alcohol, I just met you"

Also me being extremely awkward and not knowing what to say (since he was basically a stranger, we didn't really talk online before meeting and I didn't know if we were supposed to because I didn't know how dating worked) and embarrassing myself. I was surprised when he asked to meet up again. I thought he was crazy. Why the hell would he want to see me again. I told him not to ask me to go to his house again. That was my condition. And guess what he did when we met again? Ask me the same thing I told him not to. Ugh.

I was also annoyed and moody the whole time because it was hot out and I couldn't stand it. And as we were sitting together I almost started crying (this was the most embarrassing part) because I was thinking about my ex and seeing this couple outside. I think he noticed and asked if I wanted to leave and I said yes and just got up and left without another word to him. Later I told him we should hang out again.

Just thinking about it is all so embarrassing.

[adage]

Yeah, it was confusing and I'm not sure what the "unresolved feeling" behind his aforementioned question/statements was. Definitely not aggravation/anger, as in your case. I'm currently getting the vibe that there wasn't a feeling behind them and that I was reading interest into things that he just said to say.

I simply assumed non-platonic interest because... I mean, can you envision a straight guy asking a male friend about future kid names or basically bragging about how he'd make a good father/husband someday to a hypothetical family? That sorta discussion seemed highly unlikely to me, coming from a guy who views me as "friend who will definitely only ever be a friend." But it seems that I was wrong. Good lesson to keep in mind for the future, I guess.

I've seen guys talk like that among each other, it's pretty much normal to me.
I think cultural atmosphere encourages that around here tho.

[adage]

It could be totally normal topic of discussion for guys to raise in the context of platonic friendships then, oof. I don't know why I made that presumption. But whatever, it's alright. I know now for future real-life interactions that it's not an indication of interest.

I think we might be all programmed to some degree to believe that any friendly, open, and/or genuine statement is flirting. Movies and all that.

[Miss Maverick]

I think we might be all programmed to some degree to believe that any friendly, open, and/or genuine statement is flirting. Movies and all that.

Nope...many of us definitely know the difference.

[Bethany]

Flirting can be sexually provocative/ plain, simple attention seeking, both can either be harmless or gross

[RileyPichuCake]

I think I'm programmed to hope that to some degree, but I don't think I'm programmed to believe it. Whenever an attractive guy shows me friendliness, my romantic heart starts hoping that he's interested in me. But fortunately, my brain does register that he's just being kind and that it's probably not an indication of romantic feelings. I never want to presume that; I'd hate to become that annoying person who misinterprets any friendliness as flirtation.

My brain simply didn't register it this time, for whatever reason.

You need to let go of this fear and start being yourself. There is wisdom in letting the heart run free, no matter how perceived by pitiless people.

The heart knows all the answers. It’s just a matter of choosing what feels right.

[RileyPichuCake]

What fear are you referring to?


Don't worry, already am being myself.


Eh, we can agree to disagree on that one. What choice "feels right" is often misleading terms of what is moral or in terms what brings long-term satisfaction or in terms of what is even practical/possible.

Well, the fear of being discounted is what I meant, but if you’re entering your flow state, that’s what matters.

The road I see is limitless, about creativity, about expansion. Frankly, I believe in self mastery, in boosting my powers, and dominating opposition.

So my theory about justice is who’s stronger, not kindness.

If you’ve ever read “Plato’s Republic”, that’s what I’m aiming at, defining justice and being philosopher king.

[lookin4waifu]

Never disturb a woman’s flow state. Hand her a sponge, tell her ‘put it in ur underwear’, and peace it.

[Tallmo]

Lol, I love that you played it so cool after a year.

I just copied her style. Seems pretty cool to me to just casually reply like that after a year, like she did.

And it's very attractive (to me) when a man has a good plan of what he wants to do without being a steamroller. Like, "okay great. If it sounds good to you, how about dinner at 'x' at 7? I can pick you up if you're comfortable, or meet there." Because you know he has a plan and has confidently said what he wants, but won't be all hurt and touchy if you don't go along with everything. I feel like this is good regardless of the romance style.

yes, it's a masculine virtue to be like that. Confident, but related to the feminine side. Some people will have it naturally and others will take years to learn it. Probably depends a lot on the type. When I was young and inexperienced I was totally unable to even suggest a date with anybody. It was completely lacking from my consciousness. So the girl had to do it. Luckily some girls did. Later I learned to go outside my comfort zone and make arrangements to meet someone. Basically developing weak functions.

[Aria]

yes, it's a masculine virtue to be like that. Confident, but related to the feminine side. Some people will have it naturally and others will take years to learn it. Probably depends a lot on the type. When I was young and inexperienced I was totally unable to even suggest a date with anybody. It was completely lacking from my consciousness. So the girl had to do it. Luckily some girls did. Later I learned to go outside my comfort zone and make arrangements to meet someone. Basically developing weak functions.

"A masculine virtue," I like that.

It seems like Ixxp men have good skills to deepen and sustain/stabilize a relationship once they're in it, but it's more difficult to get something going. To get past initial hurdles, inertia, and caution. That's my experience trying to date other Ixxps. Seems to be the opposite for types like SLE, LIE, etc. In a sea of online dating "options" (or the illusion of options) it's often the upfront types who get more immediate results. But if you want longterm results, you have to develop skills to actually sustain something as well

[End]

I am in some ways still a textbook Fearful-Avoidant, and in some ways closer to secure. At the moment, I see more FA. Numb and distracted for the first 3-4 weeks after a breakup. Not type related, it is attachment style related. I'm still in chill mode, like

That's actually the worst attachment style and it usually takes a major trauma like being a NICU preme-baby best case scenario. I cannot and will not elaborate on what's worse than that here nor pry into what caused you so much obvious and enormous pain but if you're being truthful... well, I'm not sure what to say that'll help you in this unique instance. What I will say is that it's not all as bad as you may think. People can and will love you for being who you truly are and you should just start being that damnit.

I know I'm asking you to essentially charge the enemy trench in WWI as far as your limbic system is concerned but that's sadly what it's gonna take for you (and everyone else with broke attachment) to find happiness. I can tell you from experience that it's actually not so bad. To use another example: If you know about the monkeys in a room with a ladder leading to a bunch of bananas experiment doing this is akin to fending off that last, desperate fool of a monkey that tried to tackle you to prevent your ascent. You dodged and flung yourself up the ladder. Far as I could tell the damned thing is a gloating torment. Only a truly evil and sadistic "god" would put us all here. Some "god" that is.

Nah. Despite it all raw logic dictates that if any form of deity exists it'll be both singular and good. Knowing that, the ladder and sprinklers of acid death are all a lie. A lie the "devil" is desperately hoping I/you/we/etc. won't test. He's making a bluff nobody has tried to call in... well that timeline is a bunch of BS anyway. All the others ducked in fear and horror...

Only nothing happened. The sprinklers of painful death didn't fire off. Instead? You just climb that last rung, hesitantly reach out for the banana bunch, questioning if you really ought to chance it but hell, you've already come this far so why the fuck not go all in eh? Take that last "leap of faith" as Kirkegaard would put it. You already did it once before to even get here so why not again? Why "puss out" now right? Swallow that lingering fear and just fully commit.

I told my brother about the findings of my research on this one. I walked him through it and he's thankfully 90% certain an SEE who has mostly worked through our shared trauma of our Rake of a dad dumping/divorcing our LSE mother at around 12 years old for me. I was and am still recovering from being a dismissive/avoidant so I thought/pretended that didn't hurt when he slammed the door on that hazy day.

He took it harder that I did at first but now I think he's actually healthier than I am at the moment. He's got another problem however though and I'm currently trying to figure out how to...

Well he wifed up an IEI in college. Still married to her and I'm damn sure I got her read as she is all about /. We get along great! Only, well, extended social interactions between us three make it painfully obvious she's the uptight and clueless "theoretical" engineer to our "applied" engineer stance on most all things.

Any applied engineer will tell you that "Good Enough" is perfect. Any rational infantryman will agree without question that "Kill Them First" is what you do to live and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot disconnected from reality on a fundamental level. / in a nutshell. She wants to argue if we bring that kind of thing up. / in a nutshell if we're being honest and that's why conflicting quadras conflict. Only Beta's and Gamma's don't exactly conflict but rather have an otherwise survivable difference of opinion...

She's also clearly a dissmissive/avoidant type and I'm trying to work out how to get her to view my research and opinions as the works of a genuinely benevolent party over just some other person trying to control her. That's how my issues manifested and I know for damn sure at my worst that the instant I smelled that I'd flip em' off, cuss em' out, and do all I could to ruin them. I need to not trigger that reaction. Any ideas?

I think I'm programmed to hope that to some degree, but I don't think I'm programmed to believe it. Whenever an attractive guy shows me friendliness, my romantic heart starts hoping that he's interested in me. But fortunately, my brain does register that he's just being kind and that it's probably not an indication of romantic feelings. I never want to presume that; I'd hate to become that annoying person who misinterprets any friendliness as flirtation.

My brain simply didn't register it this time, for whatever reason.

Nope...many of us definitely know the difference.

If we all lived in a healthy society and had healthy secure attachment this wouldn't even be an issue. This is felt majorly from the Male side of things. This misconception is why men crave friendship yet fear to outwardly express this physically because they ain't "Gay" and all that.

We are currently living in a hyper-sexualized world where everything in the eyes of the average "normie" has some form of sexual subtext. Freud would be proud of this I fear and perhaps even he saw this coming sought to distance himself from it a tad. After all, "Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar" might qualify as a hateful statement in the next few years if nothing really changes and things keep progressing along the lines of my most outlandish and cynical prophecies...

[Miss Maverick]

That's actually the worst attachment style and it usually takes a major trauma like being a NICU preme-baby best case scenario. I cannot and will not elaborate on what's worse than that here nor pry into what caused you so much obvious and enormous pain but if you're being truthful... well, I'm not sure what to say that'll help you in this unique instance. What I will say is that it's not all as bad as you may think. People can and will love you for being who you truly are and you should just start being that damnit.

To this quite invasive post in which you demonstrate your clear lack of knowledge about me despite feeling at liberty to talk about such personal matters, my response is the following video. In it, the author explains why there are benefits to going from FA to Secure instead of starting off Secure. Additionally, she explains that certain FA traits will always remain, even when you have become Secure.



Hmm, are you autistic? Genuinely asking, and the reason is that I don't want to be a dick about your inability to gauge what constitutes as "appropriate conversation" as determined by intimacy levels (or the lack thereof). I would like to be considerate of your needs if it is caused by autism. No offense intended if you are actually not autistic, either. Just trying to understand what's going on here/why.

She's also clearly a dissmissive/avoidant type and I'm trying to work out how to get her to view my research and opinions as the works of a genuinely benevolent party over just some other person trying to control her. That's how my issues manifested and I know for damn sure at my worst that the instant I smelled that I'd flip em' off, cuss em' out, and do all I could to ruin them. I need to not trigger that reaction. Any ideas?

[End]

Hmm, are you autistic? Genuinely asking, and the reason is that I don't want to be a dick about your inability to gauge what constitutes as "appropriate conversation" as determined by intimacy levels (or the lack thereof). I would like to be considerate of your needs if it is caused by autism. No offense intended if you are actually not autistic, either. Just trying to understand what's going on here/why

Well it is a bit of a meme that ILI is code word for mild Asperger's Syndrome. I do have a need for direct, no bullshit communication. That's more of an issue of how the male brain works and how we communicate however. Each sex has a communication style and much heartache and stress is had by both assuming the other is exactly like themselves. Men don't "talk" for the reasons women talk and vice versa. If both sides were to accept that, learn how and why the other side talks like they do, and then lean into that they'd both be much happier.

Your posted vids are also a bit, might I say, well-meaning but also a bit off to me. Too much direct and overt emotional affirmation and more than a bit of leaning into the fact she has a pretty face. Though that might just be my male brain getting set off. I'll offer up a vid from the dude that really got myself going on this subject in response. I hope this dude and your girl meet up in an interview in the near future if they haven't already:



Note: Noticed a major red flag. This girl you mentioned wants 120 bucks for her "method" of fixing these issues given the link in the youtube description. The guy I just posted wants 10 bucks (I also suspect he's an ESI as well). It was 5 last year but inflation's a bitch and he even mentioned back then that if you bother to drop him a direct line via e-mail or DM he'll hand you a PDF copy of his book regarding this issue gratis. That's always a point in someone's favor I'd argue. After all, if you got a cure to a major issue/disease you offer it at cost morally speaking. Otherwise, you're no better than the PTB and Big Pharma (who are likely doing all they can to cause the problem I'd argue).

I gave him that posted amount despite my penny-pinching ways because, well, what's 5 bucks for a well formatted Kindle file right? Lots of good stuff on offer for that amount or less in fiction on that platform too I'd add. Peruse the "Indy" scene a bit. Lots of awesome shit the mainstream will never try to push because those authors are more interested in telling a good story over pushing "the message" as it were.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Well it is a bit of a meme that ILI is code word for mild Asperger's Syndrome. I do have a need for direct, no bullshit communication. That's more of an issue of how the male brain works and how we communicate however. Each sex has a communication style and much heartache and stress is had by both assuming the other is exactly like themselves. Men don't "talk" for the reasons women talk and vice versa. If both sides were to accept that, learn how and why the other side talks like they do, and then lean into that they'd both be much happier.

Your posted vids are also a bit, might I say, well-meaning but also a bit off to me. Too much direct and overt emotional affirmation and more than a bit of leaning into the fact she has a pretty face. Though that might just be my male brain getting set off. I'll offer up a vid from the dude that really got myself going on this subject in response. I hope this dude and your girl meet up in an interview in the near future if they haven't already:



Note: Noticed a major red flag. This girl you mentioned wants 120 bucks for her "method" of fixing these issues given the link in the youtube description. The guy I just posted wants 10 bucks (I also suspect he's an ESI as well). It was 5 last year but inflation's a bitch and he even mentioned back then that if you bother to drop him a direct line via e-mail or DM he'll hand you a PDF copy of his book regarding this issue gratis. That's always a point in someone's favor I'd argue. After all, if you got a cure to a major issue/disease you offer it at cost morally speaking. Otherwise, you're no better than the PTB and Big Pharma (who are likely doing all they can to cause the problem I'd argue).

I gave him that posted amount despite my penny-pinching ways because, well, what's 5 bucks for a well formatted Kindle file right? Lots of good stuff on offer for that amount or less in fiction on that platform too I'd add. Peruse the "Indy" scene a bit. Lots of awesome shit the mainstream will never try to push because those authors are more interested in telling a good story over pushing "the message" as it were.

Personally if I come across books I like I upload them to libgen because I don't care about imaginary property (IP), and I reason that if their work is worthwhile, it's best to facilitate access to as many people as possible. I do voluntarily pay authors when I think their work is worth the money.

[Renna]

EIE/SLE get chopped to death by SLI when forcing her to marry him... Sorry, she's not your dual buddy...

[End]

Personally if I come across books I like I upload them to libgen because I don't care about imaginary property (IP), and I reason that if their work is worthwhile, it's best to facilitate access to as many people as possible. I do voluntarily pay authors when I think their work is worth the money.

I tend to agree with this approach. Indeed, it has been proven in studies that "giving away" your work tends to actually increase sales (this is a good reason why the first book or two in a series cost nothing to one single dollar on Kindle). I mean hell, they used to decide which anime series got dubbed by observing which ones were getting the most attention from the fan subbers and their viewers. They likely still do, though now that kind of traffic is more overt and open than back in the day. My primary complaint on that front is that they used to do actually faithful adaptations whereas now it's not uncommon for the bastards at companies like Funimation and Crunchyroll to insert woke political BS into the work where it wasn't present in the original. What the death cult cannot converge or destroy they will choke off access to. This is currently in the process of happening sadly. Thankfully one cannot stop the signal. It's just gonna be a hell of a lot harder to access unadulterated content from that sphere going forward.

Rant aside, the dude is doing the equivalent of that. The book's not free, but he's got that whole youtube channel and that is. Ads are active but hey, that's what the Brave browser is for. No ads for it blocks them automatically. Hell, ads don't work anyway. Studies show that as well. People tune em' out, skip em', or otherwise resent them. Word of mouth is the winning marketing strategy. Loud annoying ads don't move product. The word of people's close friends and family does however

But boomers gonna boomer and they run things ATM and the way things are shaking out it looks like they won't stop running (and ruining) everything until the ossified fossils in charge do us all the favor of dying. "Interesting times" ahead as the Chinese proverb/curse would put it...

[Adam Strange]

Last week, a male ESI and I went out for a drink (him scotch, me iced tea) at a local restaurant and our server was a female IEE who was flirting mercilessly with my divorced friend. I felt that she was taking advantage of a guy who is thirsting for drink in a desert, and maybe she wasn't intentionally being mean by dangling water in front of him, but it came to the same thing.

After a couple drinks and during an interlude, he said to me that she was really HOT and he'd just love to take her home and make wild love to her.
I told him that that wasn't the approach that would work with her. Instead, he needed to tone it down completely and act inert.

He couldn't believe it, since she was acting so sexily assertively, kind of with complete abandon.

I said "Nope. She's testing you to see if you respond like you want her. If you come on to her, she'll cut you off in a heartbeat.
"Here. I'm really familiar with her Duals. I'll act like one the next time she comes around. Just watch this."

Up to this point, she had been pretty much ignoring me, but when she came back, she started flirting mercilessly with my friend, and I said quietly, "Why are you working in a bar? I'll bet you're great with little kids."

She looked at me like she was seeing me for the first time. "I loooove kids. I AM great with them."

"And I'll bet that you'd be fun to travel with. To Paris, for example."

She swooned. "I LOOOOVE Paris! I'd do anything to get there."

Then she caught herself. "Wait a minute. How do you know so much about me?"

I pointedly looked at my friend. See this, dude? Socionics is all true. Then I said to her, with deadpan Te, "The shoes. I always look at the shoes."

"What?"

My friend was laughing.

She recovered her balance. "You should come home with me and see my shoe collection."

I looked at her in a timid way. "I don't think that would be a good idea. I don't think that's a good idea at all."

"You'd love it!" She leaned close, over the table, in case I hadn't noticed that she's female. "I'm not married, you know," she said, apologetically. "The only thing is, I have nine cats."

"Of course you do."

Another waitress called her away to serve some other customers, and my ESI friend was laughing. "How did you do that? It's impossible!"

I said, "Man, there are only sixteen people. And each one is only looking for one person. All you have to do is be that person. Or imitate them."

He looked at his third drink. "I can't believe this."

[Bethany]

I thought this was appropriate to share here (I know Vice may seem a bit low brow for people here but I kinda like it)

How to Stop Being Attracted to Unavailable People
It can be a dangerous loop. Here’s how to stop it.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7d9wb/how-stop-attracted-unavailable-people-toxic-relationships-love?utm_source=vice_facebook&utm_medium=social&fb clid=IwAR2NIFeJXv0SvKQU8YYnZfAYc7Vzp9D2GDXFXr5oTZV W9e7uZPgkUFH-7pg

it touches on some ideas which come up on the forum regularly- attachment, neglect, intimacy, worthiness, stability

[Lord Pixel]

Last week, a male ESI and I went out for a drink (him scotch, me iced tea) at a local restaurant and our server was a female IEE who was flirting mercilessly with my divorced friend. I felt that she was taking advantage of a guy who is thirsting for drink in a desert, and maybe she wasn't intentionally being mean by dangling water in front of him, but it came to the same thing.

After a couple drinks and during an interlude, he said to me that she was really HOT and he'd just love to take her home and make wild love to her.
I told him that that wasn't the approach that would work with her. Instead, he needed to tone it down completely and act inert.

He couldn't believe it, since she was acting so sexily assertively, kind of with complete abandon.

I said "Nope. She's testing you to see if you respond like you want her. If you come on to her, she'll cut you off in a heartbeat.
"Here. I'm really familiar with her Duals. I'll act like one the next time she comes around. Just watch this."

Up to this point, she had been pretty much ignoring me, but when she came back, she started flirting mercilessly with my friend, and I said quietly, "Why are you working in a bar? I'll bet you're great with little kids."

She looked at me like she was seeing me for the first time. "I loooove kids. I AM great with them."

"And I'll bet that you'd be fun to travel with. To Paris, for example."

She swooned. "I LOOOOVE Paris! I'd do anything to get there."

Then she caught herself. "Wait a minute. How do you know so much about me?"

I pointedly looked at my friend. See this, dude? Socionics is all true. Then I said to her, with deadpan Te, "The shoes. I always look at the shoes."

"What?"

My friend was laughing.

She recovered her balance. "You should come home with me and see my shoe collection."

I looked at her in a timid way. "I don't think that would be a good idea. I don't think that's a good idea at all."

"You'd love it!" She leaned close, over the table, in case I hadn't noticed that she's female. "I'm not married, you know," she said, apologetically. "The only thing is, I have nine cats."

"Of course you do."

Another waitress called her away to serve some other customers, and my ESI friend was laughing. "How did you do that? It's impossible!"

I said, "Man, there are only sixteen people. And each one is only looking for one person. All you have to do is be that person. Or imitate them."

He looked at his third drink. "I can't believe this."

This some James Bond bar scene type shit. I love it lol.

[RileyPichuCake]

Last week, a male ESI and I went out for a drink (him scotch, me iced tea) at a local restaurant and our server was a female IEE who was flirting mercilessly with my divorced friend. I felt that she was taking advantage of a guy who is thirsting for drink in a desert, and maybe she wasn't intentionally being mean by dangling water in front of him, but it came to the same thing.

After a couple drinks and during an interlude, he said to me that she was really HOT and he'd just love to take her home and make wild love to her.
I told him that that wasn't the approach that would work with her. Instead, he needed to tone it down completely and act inert.

He couldn't believe it, since she was acting so sexily assertively, kind of with complete abandon.

I said "Nope. She's testing you to see if you respond like you want her. If you come on to her, she'll cut you off in a heartbeat.
"Here. I'm really familiar with her Duals. I'll act like one the next time she comes around. Just watch this."

Up to this point, she had been pretty much ignoring me, but when she came back, she started flirting mercilessly with my friend, and I said quietly, "Why are you working in a bar? I'll bet you're great with little kids."

She looked at me like she was seeing me for the first time. "I loooove kids. I AM great with them."

"And I'll bet that you'd be fun to travel with. To Paris, for example."

She swooned. "I LOOOOVE Paris! I'd do anything to get there."

Then she caught herself. "Wait a minute. How do you know so much about me?"

I pointedly looked at my friend. See this, dude? Socionics is all true. Then I said to her, with deadpan Te, "The shoes. I always look at the shoes."

"What?"

My friend was laughing.

She recovered her balance. "You should come home with me and see my shoe collection."

I looked at her in a timid way. "I don't think that would be a good idea. I don't think that's a good idea at all."

"You'd love it!" She leaned close, over the table, in case I hadn't noticed that she's female. "I'm not married, you know," she said, apologetically. "The only thing is, I have nine cats."

"Of course you do."

Another waitress called her away to serve some other customers, and my ESI friend was laughing. "How did you do that? It's impossible!"

I said, "Man, there are only sixteen people. And each one is only looking for one person. All you have to do is be that person. Or imitate them."

He looked at his third drink. "I can't believe this."

It alarms me you are perceptive enough to catch onto this stuff. I look mainly at devices, whereas you are grasping the other end of the black hole intuitively, like there's no escape route from your own big bang roots and invisible causes.

[adage]

Last week, a male ESI and I went out for a drink (him scotch, me iced tea) at a local restaurant and our server was a female IEE who was flirting mercilessly with my divorced friend. I felt that she was taking advantage of a guy who is thirsting for drink in a desert, and maybe she wasn't intentionally being mean by dangling water in front of him, but it came to the same thing.

After a couple drinks and during an interlude, he said to me that she was really HOT and he'd just love to take her home and make wild love to her.
I told him that that wasn't the approach that would work with her. Instead, he needed to tone it down completely and act inert.

He couldn't believe it, since she was acting so sexily assertively, kind of with complete abandon.

I said "Nope. She's testing you to see if you respond like you want her. If you come on to her, she'll cut you off in a heartbeat.
"Here. I'm really familiar with her Duals. I'll act like one the next time she comes around. Just watch this."

Up to this point, she had been pretty much ignoring me, but when she came back, she started flirting mercilessly with my friend, and I said quietly, "Why are you working in a bar? I'll bet you're great with little kids."

She looked at me like she was seeing me for the first time. "I loooove kids. I AM great with them."

"And I'll bet that you'd be fun to travel with. To Paris, for example."

She swooned. "I LOOOOVE Paris! I'd do anything to get there."

Then she caught herself. "Wait a minute. How do you know so much about me?"

I pointedly looked at my friend. See this, dude? Socionics is all true. Then I said to her, with deadpan Te, "The shoes. I always look at the shoes."

"What?"

My friend was laughing.

She recovered her balance. "You should come home with me and see my shoe collection."

I looked at her in a timid way. "I don't think that would be a good idea. I don't think that's a good idea at all."

"You'd love it!" She leaned close, over the table, in case I hadn't noticed that she's female. "I'm not married, you know," she said, apologetically. "The only thing is, I have nine cats."

"Of course you do."

Another waitress called her away to serve some other customers, and my ESI friend was laughing. "How did you do that? It's impossible!"

I said, "Man, there are only sixteen people. And each one is only looking for one person. All you have to do is be that person. Or imitate them."

He looked at his third drink. "I can't believe this."

This is dreadful, it can be so damn easy to get people to eat out of the palm of your hand.
Almost like people have no actual free-will and can be controled through pressing a few buttons.
Guess it can be used for good, but I hate the idea.

[Adam Strange]

This is dreadful, it can be so damn easy to get people to eat out of the palm of your hand.
Almost like people have no actual free-will and can be controled through pressing a few buttons.
Guess it can be used for good, but I hate the idea.

With great power comes great responsibility.

- Spider-Man

And in regard to "free-will", here is the real deal on that:

[Lord Pixel]

I finally give up on making sense of the LSI. The other week, I gently chewed him out about wanting to see him at least once a month. He was giving me a ton of excuses about how he’s just a flaky person and that I just won’t see him much. I stopped talking to him for a week and he’s made plans to hang out with me 3x in one WEEK. During the time, he proceeds to tell me, he could see us being together for the rest of our lives but that he has to really think about it. Later on, he talks about the hypothetical possibility of having a threesome with 2 other guys in the distant future. Lmao.

Also, his phone got temporarily shut off and made a burner number specifically for me just so I wouldn’t freak out on him…. but then makes it point to say we’re not dating at all (which is fine by me). At this point, I could see us becoming close friends who fuck sometimes.

Overall, one of the most interesting, physically attractive men I have gotten to know but not hedging my bets on a sustainable romantic relationship.

I mean....it does sound victim/aggressor romance style ngl. The minute he got resistance he upped his efforts.

[Adam Strange]

I finally give up on making sense of the LSI. The other week, I gently chewed him out about wanting to see him at least once a month. He was giving me a ton of excuses about how he’s just a flaky person and that I just won’t see him much. I stopped talking to him for a week and he’s made plans to hang out with me 3x in one WEEK. During the time, he proceeds to tell me, he could see us being together for the rest of our lives but that he has to really think about it. Later on, he talks about the hypothetical possibility of having a threesome with 2 other guys in the distant future. Lmao.

Also, his phone got temporarily shut off and made a burner number specifically for me just so I wouldn’t freak out on him…. but then makes it point to say we’re not dating at all (which is fine by me). At this point, I could see us becoming close friends who fuck sometimes.

Overall, one of the most interesting, physically attractive men I have gotten to know but not hedging my bets on a sustainable romantic relationship.

You will never understand your Dual, so just stop trying. Instead, just support them and enjoy the support that they bring to you.

I've had two LSI GFs and it took a long time to sort out when we would see each other and how often, and where the relationship was going. Questions like that just interfered with the daily interactions, which were almost always good, except when she was trying to elicit Fe from me, or being a Beta, or when I was seeking more Fi than her Fi-Role provided. Those last are Mirage problems, though, which you probably won't have.

I recommend that you just see him when you want, and agree to see him when he wants (if it isn't too problematic) and let the future take care of itself.

I know that the above advice sounds xxxp, but I don't think it actually is, in this case.

Oh, and with regard to @Lord Pixel's statement that your relationship sounds Victim-Aggressor, yes, there was a lot of that between me and the LSIs. Get what you want. Use them as much as they use you. It's all good.

Just two hard recommendations:
1. Never lie to them.
2. Never cheat on them.*

They will find out, and then, what you thought was just a silly game with the potential for some interesting drama turns into the final end of the relationship. And you're not coming back from this one.


*If you want to have sex with other people, tell the LSI beforehand, but don't try to hide it, and don't do it unless you tell them before you do it and make sure that they don't mind. If they object, then you can decide if having sex with someone else is worth ending your relationship with the LSI.

[Adam Strange]

I have never been to his place so he mostly just comes over when he feels like it. It seems like he doesn’t like people planning too much or unexpectedly coming over. He’s very “in the moment” but also very particular.

He got annoyed the last time I asked about hanging out with another guy or talk about other guys. But you’re right about the lying thing… he absolutely despises it if he suspects someone is trying to BS him and will get pretty confrontational…. It’s mostly with other people though.


He seems really annoyed when I get overly lovey Fe and will almost outrightly reject it at first but then will say even more intense romantic stuff later on at random times, stare at me and just get really emotionally expressive.


The one big thing that makes me think he values Fe is that he seems to love to say things online for the sole purpose of pissing off as many people as he possibly can just to see their reactions, but in real life, he’s quite respectful, friendly, generous and wants to make sure everyone is having a good time.

He publicly posts stuff like this online… seems fairly anti-Fi, right? Lol. Reminds me of the other LSIs I know.

“Never delete your character. If I ever become successful, I'll be outed as a ‘mentally unstable drug addicted gay black sexist homophobic white supremacist sexual deviant alcoholic womanizer’, and I'm ok with that.”

You're in the groove, girl. You're in the groove.

[Bethany]

I had a date with an Estp guy recently- I didn't know his type before I went on the date. I think I was rebounding a bit from the weird (but cuter) Estp I had been hanging out with before. Anway, this guy looked really different from his pics, and we had some interesting conversations (though he was still annoying!) and I did not fancy him in the slightest. When I was on the date I suddenly rememebered an Estp I had been on some dates with and decided to message him. I thought maybe I hadn't given him enough of a chance. And I kind of explained it but after some messages it became clear he just wanted sex, and wasn't very suave about it. So my orginal instincts about him were correct.. What's sexy to one person, can be sleazy to another. And I can't deal with people being more sleazy than sexy. He was attractive though, and we did get on ok, but I think he had an edge to him that was a bit too hard for me, and I don't mean a cool edge

Recently got talking to a new Estp (they're kinda everywhere atm, summer time boys!). He looked attractive, but I still wasn't sure about him. He ended up being too sexual in his messages as well.

Now I'm talking to another, looks Estp, and we've had a really nice chat, it hasn't felt tense in the slightest. I can't tell if I find him attractive, possibly cute, I'm not sure. He seems confident though and has some charisma- more than myself..So we'll see..

So I've been thinking a lot about physical attraction, and how it's not always as simple as thinking someone's face is beautiful (or pleasing). I was thinking about a guy I knew-an Estp friend I had at uni. I wasn't interested in dating anyone but he wouldn't leave me alone and clearly liked me, just didn't have the courage to say it. At first I thought he was cute-ish but later I didn't. We did get on quite well. Other than him, I think there was an EIE guy whose looks grew on me, and an SEI guy who I found attractive, but I'm not sure I would if I saw him now? Oh and an Estp who was a friend of a friend who liked me- he was short and cute, but defo more cute than handsome. It's not like I'm beautiful or anything (but I like to admire my face on a good day ), I'm just trying to think over this stuff, to learn from it. It's really hard with apps to see past a photograph sometimes.

Welll, we'll see how it goes. I wish I could see what the future holds for me :s

[Adam Strange]

After a years-long disastrous liaison with an alcoholic and self-destructive redhead, my SLE-Ti buddy posted on his Facebook page the words "No More Redheads".

I've been thinking about my own poor track record of dating, and while I don't have anything against redheads, I understand where he was coming from.

I know that the problem has not been just them, but sometimes you really want to believe it was.

[Miss Maverick]

I think I probably need to date a good psychologist in order to be with someone who meets my mental health standards. I am dead serious. I want someone who navigates psychology with the skill level of a professional. Why??? Simple: because I navigate it on a professional level, and I want an equal that I don't have to explain the psychological realm dynamics to 24/7.

Often times, my current therapist (who is very good) will exceed her time with me just because we get caught up in conversations in which we are analyzing the psyche. Sometimes I teach her things because of my observations about my (high levels of) life experience, rather than because of a degree, so she just gets intrigued by what I have to say and gives me a free hour or two just so we can chit-chat like we're friends. She teaches me about formal lessons and experiences in the psychology field (which I lack), and I teach her things from my (far too many) life experiences. We both get enthusiastic and interested in the discussion as we're teaching one another. We both just “get it” and it feels so great to chat with her. I'm not implying that I have an interest in her—I don't. I'm just saying I love our talks.

When I reflect on my last ex, who was probably an LIE-Ni (and if not, then probably ILE), we didn't have these kinds of conversations. If anything, I often felt annoyed, or felt like I was walking on eggshells in order to avoid fights. We'd discuss shallow things like movies, cats, and whatnot, but we scarcely agreed on things even if we did get into deeper topics. He was also several years younger (in his 20s, so we had a maturity level gap), and I was constantly trying to play the therapist role (particularly in the emotional realm and navigating relationship dynamics) because it's what he needed; I wouldn't have minded, but he was stubborn, and I was met with a sometimes highly reactive style of resistance. It felt as though I was trying to administer a bad tasting medicine, and he was a child who was throwing a tantrum because he didn't want to drink it. The biggest impediment was when he didn't want to change his communication style to one that was going to prevent projection, gaslighting, inconsideration, emotional invalidation, steamrolling, and other unhealthy communication approaches. Don't get me wrong, he was thankful and receptive sometimes, too…”man, having a therapist girlfriend makes you see things so much differently” when I pushed him outside his comfort zone…stuff like that…but god, when he wasn't receptive (which was basically any time he got emotional), it was pure hell for me.

I'd forgotten what it was like…to sit down and enjoy mentally stimulating conversations with another person. To feel so drawn in that you just don't want the time together to end. When I look around at my social circle, I just keep seeing how I continuously find myself in that position of being the one who is promoting growth in others, teaching them, inspiring them, protecting them, motivating them, healing them, etc. Yes, I like to be the one on the giving end that way, but is that really what I want in a relationship? No. I want someone who…we each challenge one another in that way my therapist and I do with each other.

[Miss Maverick]

I see, in my own recent actions, several manifestations of what has been described in texts as "unhealthy Sx" dynamics. It's all just distractions, really.

I also find myself having those cravings, though.

Maybe Katherine Fauvre was right.

[Adam Strange]

I see, in my own recent actions, several manifestations of what has been described in texts as "unhealthy Sx" dynamics. It's all just distractions, really.

I also find myself having those cravings, though.

Maybe Katherine Fauvre was right.

Katherine Fauvre was right about what? Link?

[Miss Maverick]

Katherine Fauvre was right about what? Link?

The way loneliness manifests in 268. I didn't agree with it for myself before because I didn't agree that those actions were even just partially driven by loneliness.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu81c08y3a...81%29.mp4?dl=0

I'd forgotten what it was like…to sit down and enjoy mentally stimulating conversations with another person. To feel so drawn in that you just don't want the time together to end. When I look around at my social circle, I just keep seeing how I continuously find myself in that position of being the one who is promoting growth in others, teaching them, inspiring them, protecting them, motivating them, healing them, etc. Yes, I like to be the one on the giving end that way, but is that really what I want in a relationship? No. I want someone who…we each challenge one another in that way my therapist and I do with each other.

As she said, though, it was lack of awareness.

[Miss Maverick]

Holy shit. I just realized the reason I hate being misunderstood is because it makes me alone, and I fear that isolated disconnect from others.

Amazing, how it all begins to tie in together and make total sense the moment that loneliness is acknowledged/recognized.

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