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Thread: Adventures in Dating

  1. #601
    The Crucified Space Sheriff godslave's Avatar
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    when I was in my 20's a friend of my sister's friend became interested in me. I liked her, she was funny and friendly so we became friends I guess. One day , I don't remember how, I found myself in her car, she and I went to her friend's house for a visit. I am a very shy person and I tried to not show it but I felt a little bit uncomfortable. When her friend asked her who I was, she told her that I was her boyfriend . I was surprised since I didn't know that she and I were that close but I didn't show it or at least I tried to not show it cuz I'm an easy blusher.
    Anyway, we stayed in contact for about a week until she stopped coming to our house with my sister's friend. Nothing ever happened between us, not even a kiss, although I wished it. I never had a real and "official Date" in the proper ritualistic romantic sense, (at least not in my country) but I think that came a little close. That was the only time I have been introduced as a boyfriend. That was the summer of 2002.

    To me real romantic passion has always been marked with the seal of secrecy and the greatest love has always been like a forbidden fruit. I ate it though and I was cursed to wander through the ocean of time haunted by the memories of an Idyll of which I will never feel the warmth again.
    I'm halfway now, but there is nothing but a stretch of monochromic time between me and the final destination.

  2. #602
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    I matched with a girl on Tinder and we met. She lives close to me, just a few blocks away. I didn't expect much because her replies to me have been very short, almost rude. I suggested we meet right away so we did. I suggested we meet at the beach nearby. She seemed very shy, and hyper-sensitive but sweet. First I thought she might have some mental condition because she seemed to have problems speaking. When we became warmer and more open turned out that she is not so shy at all and very nice. Different types popped up in my head as we started our date, walking by the sea. IEI, ESI, EII ? Now I am 99 % sure that she is EII. Subtype is clearly normalizing. Our chemistry seemed fluctuating. We had a lot to talk about, but we could suddenly be quiet and distant. I feel numb to her Fi. I am torn about this matter, but she is attractive and very nice, and I can see myself spending time with her and see where this leads. I'm thinking about telling her brutally honestly about how I feel tomorrow: That I like to her but that our chemistry is what it is (neither good nor bad)
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

  3. #603
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    I’m not dating her, but I’m spending a lot of time going to different places with an attractive female (lesbian) Dual, who is young enough to be my daughter.

    She’s beautiful, strong and intelligent, dresses with an amazing fashion sense, and we look like a couple despite being opposites in every way.

    Yesterday we were out buying stuff. I was wearing a black Polo shirt, jeans, and $500 dress shoes because they are super comfortable and are also a capitalist tool. She had on jeans, a loose, man's shirt artfully tucked into one side of the front of her jeans with the other side out, and flip-flops made from an old tire or something. She looked like a fashion model who was out slumming.

    When we’d approach a sales person in a store, we’d invariably invoke the same response. From hetero men, they’d look at her, then me, then her again, and would get this expression of helpful contempt on their face, which would only fade when they saw how easily and equally she and I interacted.

    With saleswomen, they would be much smoother at hiding their reactions, as if it was perfectly natural for an old man to be shopping with a beautiful young woman. It took them longer to see our compatibility. Maybe their prejudices are stronger.

    In one showroom, the ESI and I had found a beautiful vanity and mirror, and I was looking at the price tags while the ESI was in the ladies room. I said, marveling at the prices of this stuff, to the very intelligent IEI-Fe saleswoman, about the ESI, “Wow. She knows how to spend money.”
    ”I’ll bet she does”, the IEI said, very quietly. Which kind of pissed me off, but was funny at the same time. Meeeeoow.

    The most entertaining reactions would come from the middle-aged women out shopping with their middle-aged husbands. They'd take one look at us and would quietly but firmly steer their husbands to another part of the store.
    "Don't look at them. They don't exist. "These are not the droids you are looking for."" Lol

    People all make the same assumption about the ESI and me. It’s almost as if no one else is in a Dual relationship. The lesbian ESI and I are on the same page and we support each other. We have fun together and we have each other’s back, despite playing on different ball teams.

    Something happens to most people when they grow up. They lose something that they shouldn’t lose.



    After buying the vanity and mirror from the intelligent and attractive IEI-Fe saleswoman, she took my name and number and said she'd call me when it came in. I asked her her name.
    The IEI-Fe looked up at me neutrally, totally not looking at the ESI standing next to me, and didn't reply, but just stared, as if to say, "Work harder for it. This is a test of your strength and assertiveness." Lol.
    "I get a lot of calls all day long, and a lot of them are bullshit calls. I want to be sure that I recognize your call."
    "She'll leave a message", the ESI said.
    "Heidi", said the IEI, carefully, neutrally.

    IEI's are amazing sometimes. Lol.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-05-2022 at 04:55 PM.

  4. #604
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    NICU
    I'm bad with abbreviations, so what phenomenon from the attachment video does "NICU" refer to?



    Quote Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon View Post
    I have a secure attachment to yo mamma
    Ah, so that's why she handed you a restraining order.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I think of IEEs as a threat to my actual life sometimes
    IEEs, a threat to anyone's life? But how?



    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I feel numb to her Fi. I am torn about this matter, but she is attractive and very nice, and I can see myself spending time with her and see where this leads. I'm thinking about telling her brutally honestly about how I feel tomorrow: That I like to her but that our chemistry is what it is (neither good nor bad)
    It's fair of you to be open about your feelings, but it seems rather early to make up your mind about her so soon after only a first date. You could also decide to tell her after the second date instead, in order to give her some more time, because she dispelled your initial impression of her before, so she might do so again.
    Last edited by Armitage; 06-05-2022 at 04:34 PM.

  5. #605
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    So I'm standing in line to buy lunch at my favorite Alpha food specialty store and the new cashier is -my god- the spitting image of my favorite LSI porn star and my dick is saying "Do it do it do it do it do it" and my head is saying "You're not seeing anyone right now and her body is PERFECT and she's LSI and so it would be easy and natural and my dick is telling me "DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT" and I'm kind of just standing there in line, waiting for the SEI granny to finish checking out, just standing there with my mouth kind of hanging open, I guess, because
    The SEI guy who owns the place walks by, takes one look at me and starts laughing and says "I can help you at this next register."

    No, dude, not like her you can't.

  6. #606
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I think of IEEs as a threat to my actual life sometimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    IEEs, a threat to anyone's life? But how?
    They will talk you to death. It's a pretty common phenomenon.

    You find dead people on park benches, dead people in tents in the woods, dead people in nursing homes, and no one looks for the IEE who was last seen talking to them.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-05-2022 at 04:59 PM.

  7. #607
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post


    It's fair of you to be open about your feelings, but it seems rather early to make up your mind about her so soon after only a first date. You could also decide to tell her after the second date instead, in order to give her some more time, because she dispelled your initial impression of her before, so she might do so again.
    Yes you're right. I changed my mind after sleeping one night. I am not going to be "brutally honest". It's not really my style anyway. But she is, and will remain EII, and nothing's gonna change that. I have been with EII before and I know that relating to the Fi base is going to be a problem. You can't change the fact that Fi base hits my demonstrative. However, I'm not going to think too much about that now, hopefully I will see her soon again and we'll see were this goes.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Yes you're right. I changed my mind after sleeping one night. I am not going to be "brutally honest". It's not really my style anyway. But she is, and will remain EII, and nothing's gonna change that. I have been with EII before and I know that relating to the Fi base is going to be a problem. You can't change the fact that Fi base hits my demonstrative. However, I'm not going to think too much about that now, hopefully I will see her soon again and we'll see were this goes.
    In the worst case, you both might learn something.

    It was my second LSI gf, separated from the first by time and distance, who convinced me that people with identical types have much in common.

    If I hadn’t proven this to myself, I might not now be looking so hard only for ESIs.

  9. #609

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    IEEs, a threat to anyone's life? But how?

    in aroundabout way (low si?)

    Hmm. Putting drugs in people’s mouths when they’ve already had too much? Watching their best friend throw their young life away for 8 years+? Harassing you to listen to their problems, not realising yours are actually worse? Even though they do know really. They’re very good at blanking stuff out that makes them uncomfortable. Calling you the night before your first date with an SLE and stressing you out so much you end up not sleeping and cancelling the date. (Life debilitating if not threatening :/) These are the type of problems that pop up in unhealthy contrary friendships (IEI/IEE). However, if the IEI backs off, the IEE usually realises their error and vastly improves their behaviour. And the IEI knows how to spot the signs of the IEE beginning to misbehave again. These friendships can be really good, I don’t doubt it. But the IEI is secretly boss


    oh and my SEE and IEE superiors completely failed to recognise obvious examples of harassment in the work place..
    Last edited by Bethany; 06-05-2022 at 07:40 PM.

  10. #610

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    They will talk you to death. It's a pretty common phenomenon.

    You find dead people on park benches, dead people in tents in the woods, dead people in nursing homes, and no one looks for the IEE who was last seen talking to them.
    Lol Adam. I used to have a really really good IEE friend, a school friend. She talked a lot about her narcissistic mother. I could never remember the details after she spoke about her..The way she spoke was hypnotic.


    A more mature IEE will make sure the conversation is less one-sided and the level of emotional support in the friendship is balanced. Tbh we got on very well and maybe by rights we should still be friends. But she wasn’t there for me, and you can’t turn back time. Sometimes friendships go wrong when both people have too much similar style trauma.

    Last edited by Bethany; 06-05-2022 at 07:38 PM.

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I'm bad with abbreviations, so what phenomenon from the attachment video does "NICU" refer to?.
    Natal Intensive Care Unit. Preme baby=Premature Baby. One of my own relations had such a birth. Poor thing was confined to a plastic box for three months outside the womb with all kinds of tubes stuck into his form. His parents are wonderful far as I can tell, but like I said, you can't undo how our brains work in a mechanical sense.

    Well, I think it was three months. Point is he was barely viable when he was born and the box was his world up until he had finally become fully viable as a nine-month old baby (if we count from the moment of fertilization).

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamondhearts View Post
    Whether you have a lot of sex, have little or consider yourself celibate, it shouldn't matter. Your value and worth as a human being does not decrease based on your sexual history. I'd say an active woman could be a great wife if she wanted to if she had a partner who could satisfy her. Same thing with a man, or whoever. Sex is a natural thing and no one should be shamed for having these desires/urges. That's why they treat it like a game or form of control over others
    Mostly true. After all, you're never too old to start making good decisions. However, I will note that objective reality is, well, objective. While your intrinsic value as a human/sentient being is beyond reproach your perceived value is (perhaps sadly in this example) open to interpretation and that interpretation is actually pretty easy to figure out.

    Remember how for Gamma types like me Life is a game? A game with rules that only idiots fail to learn hard and fast? Yeah, sexual history actually matters and it doubly matters for women. "Can't turn a Ho into a Housewife" resonates for even non-Gamma types for a good reason. If she has 7 kids by 6 different fathers what are the odds you won't be the reason she has 8 kids by 7 different fathers?

    Kids I will note you probably aren't even trying to get close to emotionally. Big idea for anyone dating a "single mother" (or father) that you actually want to wife/husband up earnestly and honestly. If you must be "Captain Save a Ho/rake" than know this. The fastest way into the pants and ultimately heart of a woman/man with children they know is theirs is to try to heal their own children's attachment issues.

    You are, by necessity, crushing the innate dreams of the child. After all, what they innately want is for their true mommy and daddy to make up and get back together. If you wed her and become their step-father/mother you have, in point of fact, crushed their most wholly wished for and most innocent of dreams.

    However, there is something else I and most other ILI's will harp on. If you gotta do something "wrong", do it right. You are not their biological dad/mom. Yeah, damn right I'm not. Guess what, that doesn't matter to me because I can still be an amazing uncle or something else like that. I cannot "replace" your dad/mom, but I can still be an awesome figure in your life. You need a hug? I'll give ya one. Why? Because I wanna make you as happy as I can. I actually do love you faults and all! And I'm willing to prove it to you.

    I sadly regret to report that such thinking isn't encouraged in modern society...

  13. #613

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    No, @FreelancePoliceman, I donít.

    The ESIs Iíve met are already really morally inflexible, and they immediately ďdoĒ things (exert force) in the real world, right now. What Iíve see me bring to the table is a -perhaps- Ne-based approach to moral behavior in which I explain to ESIs why life is not black-or-white. Why people might do something, not because they are good or bad people, but rather because their logic, or circumstances, drive them to some temporary solution (which might change).
    ESIs wonít tell you this, but they really are very black-or-white people. Probably their LIE Duals are best at being able to introduce some shades-of-gray understanding into their moral pantheon.

    Furthermore, my intuition of the future is pretty well developed, while theirs is not. This fear of the future (and ESIs are often e6) causes them to do things immediately, while I am better at judging how much time there might be available for juggling multiple projects.

    My problem with having stronger Ni is that, while juggling multiple projects, some donít get done. Moreover, I can easily get lost in the possible chess moves and forget to MOVE THE DAMNED PAWN NOW. ESIs donít do that. Their fear of not meeting their Fi promises makes them do things RIGHT NOW. This makes them seem (to me) strong and focused and taking care of business.
    They cover my back in real world action-type situations, which makes them seem strong to me.

    This is all theory of Duals, though. The way I actually feel is that I lack the ability to apply force in the real world but I wish I could (Se-HA). I might be able to plot the future, but I feel vulnerable (Victim) to physical actions which could be taken against me.
    In reality, Iím quite strong, but I feel like I need the hair-trigger awareness of danger that ESIs have and use to defend against physical threats. They are the canaries in the coal mine who call me, from my Ni-dream state, back to the world so I can bring the big guns into play.

    In turn, my Ni serves them by letting them know which threats are dangerous and which are not. You may have seen pictures where LIEs are characterized as knights, serving their mistress. There is a lot of truth to that. The knight needs the strong and immediate mistress who loves him, and he, in turn, turns the sword to the outer world.

    You, Freelance, being a mirror-image of LIEs with regard to the functions, should be able to make a nearly identical argument regarding your relationship with your own Duals, flipping only the extroversion and introversion of the functions.
    True, an ESI who is say maybe an enneagram 1 also might be morally flexible. But an ESI who is an enneagram 3 would be, I assure you, nothing of the sort. Fi has more to do with just morality. It also deals with a persons inner feelings, which is where the ethical/feeling dichotomy is opposite of say of logical types in that way in which we deal with logic. If you mix Fi with say a gut type you might get someone whose inflexible in how they feel about their ethics, but mixing it with a heart type or especially an enneagram 3 and you get a whole different experience I promise you. My ESI enneagram 3 friends and other heart types friends tend to be inflexible in their Fi yes, but itís in a way thatís about their deeper Fi emotions/sentiments which they wonít betray or go against and they expect you to respect as well. Fi can be used in different ways and is a pretty complex function and it doesnít always have to deal with morality, although yes an Fi lead would still be inflexible that way with it if it did pertain to ethics alone since us Ne polr tends to have issues with seeing other possibilities. Although, if I may add, having a difficulty in seeing other possibilities doesnít have to always lead to black and white thinking or splitting in areas of ethics. Thatís more unhealthy enneagram 1 territory than socionics type. We just come off as closed minded to other new ways and possibilities, but that doesnít mean we wonít consider the possibilities weíve already thought of in the past. Seeing Ne polr from the outside from someone elseís point of view is pretty different than actually experiencing it lol. These are just my experiences as an actual Ne polr with other Ne polr ESI and LSI friends that Iíve been close to though, and Iím not trying to invalidate your opinions and experiences on this matter in any way.

    By the way, yes we are forceful due to our 3D Se but I actually donít mind if a guy is weaker than me since I actually unconsciously expect it from them since Iím an agressor lol. So if anybody has a problem with you being weaker in that function than them instead of them just taking it over for themselves then they probably arenít your dual lol.

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamablueberrymadeoflove View Post
    True, an ESI who is say maybe an enneagram 1 also might be morally flexible. But an ESI who is an enneagram 3 would be, I assure you, nothing of the sort. Fi has more to do with just morality. It also deals with a persons inner feelings, which is where the ethical/feeling dichotomy is opposite of say of logical types in that way in which we deal with logic. If you mix Fi with say a gut type you might get someone whose inflexible in how they feel about their ethics, but mixing it with a heart type or especially an enneagram 3 and you get a whole different experience I promise you. My ESI enneagram 3 friends and other heart types friends tend to be inflexible in their Fi yes, but it’s in a way that’s about their deeper Fi emotions/sentiments which they won’t betray or go against and they expect you to respect as well. Fi can be used in different ways and is a pretty complex function and it doesn’t always have to deal with morality, although yes an Fi lead would still be inflexible that way with it if it did pertain to ethics alone since us Ne polr tends to have issues with seeing other possibilities. Although, if I may add, having a difficulty in seeing other possibilities doesn’t have to always lead to black and white thinking or splitting in areas of ethics. That’s more unhealthy enneagram 1 territory than socionics type. We just come off as closed minded to other new ways and possibilities, but that doesn’t mean we won’t consider the possibilities we’ve already thought of in the past. Seeing Ne polr from the outside from someone else’s point of view is pretty different than actually experiencing it lol. These are just my experiences as an actual Ne polr with other Ne polr ESI and LSI friends that I’ve been close to though, and I’m not trying to invalidate your opinions and experiences on this matter in any way.

    By the way, yes we are forceful due to our 3D Se but I actually don’t mind if a guy is weaker than me since I actually unconsciously expect it from them since I’m an agressor lol. So if anybody has a problem with you being weaker in that function than them instead of them just taking it over for themselves then they probably aren’t your dual lol.
    This post exemplifies HP cognition really well.
    Just on the border of your waking mind,
    There lies another time
    Where darkness and light are one,
    And as you tread the halls of sanity
    You feel so glad to be unable to go beyond

    I have a message from another time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I matched with a girl on Tinder and we met. She lives close to me, just a few blocks away. I didn't expect much because her replies to me have been very short, almost rude. I suggested we meet right away so we did. I suggested we meet at the beach nearby. She seemed very shy, and hyper-sensitive but sweet. First I thought she might have some mental condition because she seemed to have problems speaking. When we became warmer and more open turned out that she is not so shy at all and very nice. Different types popped up in my head as we started our date, walking by the sea. IEI, ESI, EII ? Now I am 99 % sure that she is EII. Subtype is clearly normalizing. Our chemistry seemed fluctuating. We had a lot to talk about, but we could suddenly be quiet and distant. I feel numb to her Fi. I am torn about this matter, but she is attractive and very nice, and I can see myself spending time with her and see where this leads. I'm thinking about telling her brutally honestly about how I feel tomorrow: That I like to her but that our chemistry is what it is (neither good nor bad)
    Ok, it's been a few days and the event has likely already come and gone but here's a good suggestion. See, people who are broken, and I mean really broken, are deathly afraid of talking about things like personal goals and ambitions first. They'll try and get you talk about yours first so they can pretend theirs are the perfect compliment to your own even if they aren't. It's very tempting to talk about yourself on that front but here you must resist. Don't force it out of them but do all you can to gently prod them on this front.

    What do they want out of their life? Ex Nihilo. Fuck what you want or think. Fuck what the world wants or thinks! What is their most primal desire? What is their ideal self? Are they even willing to share? Imagine a world without social media so no risk of Cancel Culture. Can they? Will they? If Twitter died tomorrow would they finally be honest with both you and themselves?

    This next part cannot be faked. You must honestly offer to reciprocate. The greatest seducers never faked an instant of their interactions with their victims. Charmers like myself earnestly and honestly love to see others succeed. Envy (insofar as its sinful definition is concerned) is an alien concept to us. Those who succeed and go far are not targets to tear down. They are aspirational figures! We can and shall go farther than they however for unlike they we understand the full weight and meaning of the quote "There's no limit to how far you can go so far as you don't care who gets the credit."

    Benjamin Disraeli (Charmer extraordinaire) put it best: "Never explain. Never complain."

    God will know who truly accomplished the Herculean tasks or who at least enabled the demigod to get it done. Whatever power we attained was ultimately secondary to our truest pleasure of helping others succeed in goals we found to be both possible and morally acceptable. Don't hate the spider who spins his/her web if it is spun in the interest of making others happy first and glorifying itself somehow second. For the "perfect" web is self-evident. It will by necessity glorify the creator yet also still make others happier than the weaver ever dreamed.

    For instance, my is screaming my future wife is going to be a visual artist/illustrator (likely a big fan of Josei). That's good because I want to be an author and I am thus in dire need of such a person. If you want to sell books know that the cover is 80 percent of the "buy" decision for readers. That means if you want to sell your book for actual money you need amazing cover art. If you help her to become a famous artist it'll likely coincide with you hitting paydirt with a novel series she just so happened to do the cover art for. Plus having a "Josei" artist do the cover art for dystopian/Mil-SF/Space Opera fiction would be rather unique and that's a major selling point. It's a "twist" most readers won't see coming.

    Your successes fed off each other on that front. Great artists met and aided one another. A master storyteller met the artist who knew how to best evoke in the reading public the emotions the tale was meant to illicit with but a single picture. Writers can't draw and artists can't write. Thus, better to focus on your strength and let the other person do what they do best. In the old days Marvel got that fact. Writers would tell/give the artists a general idea of a story, and the artist would draw it up. Then the writer would then fit dialogue to the powerful images they were given. Both sides had a legitimate and important role in the "writing" of the story.

    The stories and the art that accompanied them captivated the whole of all who had the pleasure of being exposed to them. That's why the MCU was so cataclysmically successful. At least up until they ran out of the source material provided by the likes of Lee, Kirby, and Ditko. Now it's a bunch of death cultists trying to push an agenda and people are becoming disillusioned with it for good reason...

  16. #616
    Moderator xerx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    As for you being ruthless, well, sometimes you have to draw a line to enforce boundaries. It’s amazing how some people will treat you like a piece of trash if you let them. They will piss on you and tell you it’s raining.
    Dealing ruthlessly with people who are not honest with you is a very good approach, in my opinion.
    Yep. Had to learn this the hard way (by being overly patient with a sociopath who tried to scam me). I don't know where he is right now, but I hope that it's prison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    God will know who truly accomplished the Herculean tasks or who at least enabled the demigod to get it done. Whatever power we attained was ultimately secondary to our truest pleasure of helping others succeed in goals we found to be both possible and morally acceptable. Don't hate the spider who spins his/her web if it is spun in the interest of making others happy first and glorifying itself somehow second. For the "perfect" web is self-evident. It will by necessity glorify the creator yet also still make others happier than the weaver ever dreamed.
    I'm not sure I understand your metaphor. I don't think spiders ever spin webs to make others happy. I also don't know that "glorification" is a concern that crosses their minds. They make webs, catch food, and survive because they do it. I'll be the first to say that community is important, but I'm not sure that this "real happiness is making others happy" is right. At least that's what I read from your post. You're comparing yourself to a predatory animal and it seems to bother you that other people would condemn your behavior. What I quoted reads like you're trying to morally justify yourself. I don't think that applying a moral framework to this makes sense. You don't try to get girls because you want to glorify God or make those girls happy; you do it because you want girls. And not because you want to "glorify yourself" either, any more than a spider is interested in that. If you believe your desires are evil I think it's better to determine the ways you are and aren't willing to change, and just understand yourself as evil if that's your decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your metaphor. I don't think spiders ever spin webs to make others happy. I also don't know that "glorification" is a concern that crosses their minds. They make webs, catch food, and survive because they do it. I'll be the first to say that community is important, but I'm not sure that this "real happiness is making others happy" is right. At least that's what I read from your post. You're comparing yourself to a predatory animal and it seems to bother you that other people would condemn your behavior. What I quoted reads like you're trying to morally justify yourself. I don't think that applying a moral framework to this makes sense. You don't try to get girls because you want to glorify God or make those girls happy; you do it because you want girls. And not because you want to "glorify yourself" either, any more than a spider is interested in that. If you believe your desires are evil I think it's better to determine the ways you are and aren't willing to change, and just understand yourself as evil if that's your decision.
    I think you said elsewhere that ILI's are Cold Humans and that LII's are Warm Robots. This may well be a case in point. Despite all my efforts to be a cold calculating mastermind I simply cannot help myself when I see the suffering of others. I cannot just allow them to suffer if I can help them somehow. Within reason of course.

    Yet people are people and their nature is fallen. If I just came upon them promising to "help" them honestly and directly they'd wall me off as yet another dumbass outsider seeking to exploit them somehow. I yearn to just tell them how they're fucking up and yet I know for a fact that if I do I will likely just compound their suffering as now they are going to auto-reject anything and anyone that sounds even remotely like me.

    This is where the concept of "seduction" comes in. See, they have blaringly obvious problems and insecurities. I got a whole friggin' conspiracy board in my mind ready but such thinking won't get a damn thing done in reality but it does tell me where they're likely fucked up and also how to best deal with that particular case.

    The draw of seduction is how you get the other person to do what you want without making a direct or forceful demand. It is a "feminine" power ultimately. It avoids direct masculine confrontation. Key to the greatest seductions was how the seducer allowed themselves to be in some way seduced themselves. Y'know how I harp on and on about attachment issues? Yeah, turns out you can't exactly fake real and true vulnerability. Only the "Secure" are able to not fake that. The real tragedy is how the broken can and do get so close to that they almost, almost, get it.

    To draw this to a close. I want to make my future wife happy. I will do so by both seducing her and allowing myself to be seduced by her. Again, as I've pointed out, one of the most seductive things you can do is to actually fall for your victim in the seduction game.

    As honesty is a key part of myself I won't hide a damn thing from her. If she asks me if I'm seducing her I'll tell her "Yes I am. As you are also seducing me right now as well and that's not a bad thing. It is simply what people naturally do!"

    She'll either fall in love with me or run for the hills. This also dovetail's with my repeated conceptions of "the lost" as I've labeled them. If I allow myself to become truly vulnerable in her presence and her response was to bounce than she was "lost" and I essentially dodged a major bullet. It hurts yes but it hurts way friggin' less than being on the business end of a literal yandere. That's how many a good man has died!
    Last edited by End; 06-11-2022 at 04:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    In the worst case, you both might learn something.

    It was my second LSI gf, separated from the first by time and distance, who convinced me that people with identical types have much in common.

    If I hadn’t proven this to myself, I might not now be looking so hard only for ESIs.
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Ok, it's been a few days and the event has likely already come and gone but here's a good suggestion. See, people who are broken, and I mean really broken, are deathly afraid of talking about things like personal goals and ambitions first. They'll try and get you talk about yours first so they can pretend theirs are the perfect compliment to your own even if they aren't. It's very tempting to talk about yourself on that front but here you must resist. Don't force it out of them but do all you can to gently prod them on this front.

    What do they want out of their life? Ex Nihilo. Fuck what you want or think. Fuck what the world wants or thinks! What is their most primal desire? What is their ideal self? Are they even willing to share? Imagine a world without social media so no risk of Cancel Culture. Can they? Will they? If Twitter died tomorrow would they finally be honest with both you and themselves?
    Thanks for your comments. A quick update. This thread is "Adventures in dating" so I feel I also should also share the other side of the story.

    After our blind date she took 4 days to reply to me. Then I got a message. "Hi, it was nice meeting you. This might sound really surprising, but I'm wondering if you would like to buy sex. I hope you don't take this as an offense"

    She is definitely EII, and she seemed sweet and kinda innocent. But now I understand that innocence is probably due to some dissociation or something. She had also told me that she is currently unemployed. Anyway, this is the first time I've got this kind of offer so it took me a while to collect myself and then I started to seriously considering her offer. I wanted to do that, because even though it IS offensive, it is also kindof hot. As men I'm sure you understand. But I don't want to go down that road so I told her I won't buy sex from her, but that we can meet again the normal way if she wants to.

    So this thing is probably over. But I learned a lot, just as Adam predicted.

    I don't see any contradiction between EII and this kind of behaviour. Fi = independent morals, Ne= possibiliites, Te= go for the money Si= use pleasure to get money

    End, those topics to talk about on a date are good, although I don't normally talk about these things. But generally, I am too much of a SEI to keep these tactical considerations in mind on a date. I am bound by my type, but it's also good to go slightly beyond that. On a date I prefer to see what happens in the chemistry. She might pull out of me certain things or not. And I might do the same to her. To direct things by will is more difficult for SiFe ego, although I can do that also under good circumstances.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    I once met an SEE-se on a night out, and we had a date afterwards too. It’s happened more than once that I’ve met someone, but I’ve been too self-conscious about my problems to date them. We had a really fun date. It was a week night and we ended up in a mostly empty night club.

    I recently had a date with SLE and he seems..I dunno, at this moment I’m interested in him. It does seem a bit slow in how it’s moving but that might be what’s right.

    I was thinking about the SEE-se guy I met all those years ago. He was really sweet and dashing. I don’t even have him on social media. There’s something about SEIs and SEEs- rare ones that just make me smile.

    But I like to think of ways to feel better about missing out on opportunities. I’m fortunate that I have gay male friends- so I get to hang out with really lovely men, where it feels a bit faux romantic, but not awkward at all. My good friend is IEE which is lookalike to SEE. His boyfriend is LSE and I tend to notice similarities between SEE and LSE. More importantly, these guys are people I really get on with, and I feel lucky to share fun experiences with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Thanks for your comments. A quick update. This thread is "Adventures in dating" so I feel I also should also share the other side of the story.

    After our blind date she took 4 days to reply to me. Then I got a message. "Hi, it was nice meeting you. This might sound really surprising, but I'm wondering if you would like to buy sex. I hope you don't take this as an offense"

    She is definitely EII, and she seemed sweet and kinda innocent. But now I understand that innocence is probably due to some dissociation or something. She had also told me that she is currently unemployed. Anyway, this is the first time I've got this kind of offer so it took me a while to collect myself and then I started to seriously considering her offer. I wanted to do that, because even though it IS offensive, it is also kindof hot. As men I'm sure you understand. But I don't want to go down that road so I told her I won't buy sex from her, but that we can meet again the normal way if she wants to.
    Such an innocent gurl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I don't see any contradiction between EII and this kind of behaviour. Fi = independent morals, Ne= possibiliites, Te= go for the money Si= use pleasure to get money
    She can be EII or not. However, she probably does to lots of guys and it is not because she is EII, lots of women who gets paid for sex do the same tactic. So just saying this in case of you thought Ne= possibiliites because she asked for money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Such an innocent gurl.



    She can be EII or not. However, she probably does to lots of guys and it is not because she is EII, lots of women who gets paid for sex do the same tactic. So just saying this in case of you thought Ne= possibiliites because she asked for money.
    This is true. I think any type can ask for money in exchange for sex.

    I watch a lot of porn and I often type the women using VI, and much to my surprise, I think I’ve seen every Sociotype participating in porn.

    I mention porn because I view that industry’s workers as purely trading sex for money. So trading sex for money is definitely not a type-related characteristic.


    I think that for much of my life, I had a very wrong and idealized idea of “sex for money”, almost certainly due to my Delta upbringing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Thanks for your comments. A quick update. This thread is "Adventures in dating" so I feel I also should also share the other side of the story.

    After our blind date she took 4 days to reply to me. Then I got a message. "Hi, it was nice meeting you. This might sound really surprising, but I'm wondering if you would like to buy sex. I hope you don't take this as an offense"
    My first thought upon reading this was that she was selling herself cheap. But maybe she was just a female who wanted to have sex and found that, on this planet, she could not only have sex with random guys (what guy wouldn't want to be in that position himself?) and she could get PAID for satisfying her wants, too! I mean, it's like she won the lottery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    She is definitely EII, and she seemed sweet and kinda innocent. But now I understand that innocence is probably due to some dissociation or something. She had also told me that she is currently unemployed. Anyway, this is the first time I've got this kind of offer so it took me a while to collect myself and then I started to seriously considering her offer. I wanted to do that, because even though it IS offensive, it is also kindof hot. As men I'm sure you understand. But I don't want to go down that road so I told her I won't buy sex from her, but that we can meet again the normal way if she wants to.

    So this thing is probably over. But I learned a lot, just as Adam predicted.

    I don't see any contradiction between EII and this kind of behaviour. Fi = independent morals, Ne= possibiliites, Te= go for the money Si= use pleasure to get money

    End, those topics to talk about on a date are good, although I don't normally talk about these things. But generally, I am too much of a SEI to keep these tactical considerations in mind on a date. I am bound by my type, but it's also good to go slightly beyond that. On a date I prefer to see what happens in the chemistry. She might pull out of me certain things or not. And I might do the same to her. To direct things by will is more difficult for SiFe ego, although I can do that also under good circumstances.
    I think that the topic of "Sex for money and money for sex" could fill several threads, but let me just share my thoughts on it here in (hopefully) one post.

    I was raised in a pretty puritanical home, and the idea of trading sex for money seemed like something that probably happened somewhere on the earth, but it certainly didn't happen to anyone I knew.

    When I reached the point where I wanted to have sex with women, I basically went to the bars to pick up any female who was willing. I refused to buy them drinks, though, because I wanted the exchange to be non-mercenary in any way. I was really looking for love, but that's just me.

    I got married to a nice woman and the sex stopped completely after ten years. Most guys would have bailed on that marriage in the first month after the sex stopped, but I was thinking that I was in this for better or worse. I definitely had an overly ideal concept of what a relationship should be. I was basically stupid.

    After a long time, during which my wife basically demonstrated that she didn't give a fuck about my feelings, I divorced her. I started dating again, but this time, I was paying for dinner and admission to events. In the case of one IEI-Fe, I was buying her blown glass sculptures. I did this both to get some pretty nice art, and to spend some one-on-one time with her.
    I once told her that I wanted to have sex with her, and she said "That will never happen." She then asked me why, since I wanted sex and seemed to have a lot of money, I didn't just pay a woman for sex?
    I told her that I'd never paid for sex in my life, and she just started laughing. This pissed me off, since it set out in the open the fact that I had been buying her attention, and that I was really deluding myself if I thought I was going to get the love and affection from her that I was hoping for.
    "Goddam Betas", I thought at the time.
    At this point, I only wanted to have sex with women whom I genuinely liked, so I had evolved a bit from my college days.

    But you know, I later met an LSI who really did love me and I loved her in return. It was just unfortunate that she also needed a lot of drama and that I hate drama. I liked and loved her, but our values were not the same values. By now, I was looking to do the best relationship that I possibly could, and that meant not compromising in a fairly big area of it.

    When I was with the LSI, she was up for sex anytime and anywhere, which is how I like it. I frequently get these feelings of being unloved, and since I equate having sex with being loved, a quick bout of sex will entirely dissipate these feelings. From my standpoint, we were entirely compatible there. Additionally, she seemed to want a life where she didn't have to work, but rather just called her friends, went to plays or musical events or ballgames or swimming in the lake or going to bars or for a night out at a nice restaurant, and I was able to pay for all of that. She also was looking for a person who would buy her clothes and groceries and pay her rent, and I did that, too. It was definitely a "sex for money, money for sex" kind of relationship, but we also genuinely, and primarily, liked each other. I mean, I liked to hang out with her whether we were having sex or not, and she liked hanging out with me, whether I was paying her electric bill or not.

    You can think about a relationship between a man and a woman in terms of resources. Women, of course, have access to the most valuable thing in the world, which is the ability to have children. This is the thing of greatest value which they can trade on.
    Men, in turn, have the ability to protect woman (and kids) from the environment, and to accumulate resources to support them. This is what men have to trade on. Both trades are related to reproduction, but in modern society, we could, if we were being crude, call this "sex for money".

    When you think about it, trading sex for money, or providing a mother with a good home and a father with good children, is something that we all do to various degrees. Only the terms of the exchange differ from one case to another. Only the details matter, and they should only matter to the people involved.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-11-2022 at 03:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    This is true. I think any type can ask for money in exchange for sex.

    I watch a lot of porn and I often type the women using VI, and much to my surprise, I think I’ve seen every Sociotype participating in porn.

    I mention porn because I view that industry’s workers as purely trading sex for money. So trading sex for money is definitely not a type-related characteristic.


    I think that for much of my life, I had a very wrong and idealized idea of “sex for money”, almost certainly due to my Delta upbringing.
    Pretty on point but I'd stop watching or engaging with porno. Take it from a man who named Saint Augustine as his patron upon Confirmation and is an unrepentant weeb. I get it overall but I also get how and why it's a bad thing. Ultimately, viewing porno (especially if you have a GF or Wife) is adultery in the heart.

    Just because one might consume doujinshi over pornhub videos doesn't alter the core nature of the act save that the former has one potential argument in its favor. At least no physically existent person was harmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My first thought upon reading this was that she was selling herself cheap. But maybe she was just a female who wanted to have sex and found that, on this planet, she could not only have sex with random guys (what guy wouldn't want to be in that position himself?) and she could get PAID for satisfying her wants, too! I mean, it's like she won the lottery.



    I think that the topic of "Sex for money and money for sex" could fill several threads, but let me just share my thoughts on it here in (hopefully) one post.

    I was raised in a pretty puritanical home, and the idea of trading sex for money seemed like something that probably happened somewhere on the earth, but it certainly didn't happen to anyone I knew.

    When I reached the point where I wanted to have sex with women, I basically went to the bars to pick up any female who was willing. I refused to buy them drinks, though, because I wanted the exchange to be non-mercenary in any way. I was really looking for love, but that's just me.

    I got married to a nice woman and the sex stopped completely after ten years. Most guys would have bailed on that marriage in the first month after the sex stopped, but I was thinking that I was in this for better or worse. I definitely had an overly ideal concept of what a relationship should be. I was basically stupid.

    After a long time, during which my wife basically demonstrated that she didn't give a fuck about my feelings, I divorced her. I started dating again, but this time, I was paying for dinner and admission to events. In the case of one IEI-Fe, I was buying her blown glass sculptures. I did this both to get some pretty nice art, and to spend some one-on-one time with her.
    I once told her that I wanted to have sex with her, and she said "That will never happen." She then asked me why, since I wanted sex and seemed to have a lot of money, I didn't just pay a woman for sex?
    I told her that I'd never paid for sex in my life, and she just started laughing. This pissed me off, since it set out in the open the fact that I had been buying her attention, and that I was really deluding myself if I thought I was going to get the love and affection from her that I was hoping for.
    "Goddam Betas", I thought at the time.
    At this point, I only wanted to have sex with women whom I genuinely liked, so I had evolved a bit from my college days.

    But you know, I later met an LSI who really did love me and I loved her in return. It was just unfortunate that she also needed a lot of drama and that I hate drama. I liked and loved her, but our values were not the same values. By now, I was looking to do the best relationship that I possibly could, and that meant not compromising in a fairly big area of it.

    When I was with the LSI, she was up for sex anytime and anywhere, which is how I like it. I frequently get these feelings of being unloved, and since I equate having sex with being loved, a quick bout of sex will entirely dissipate these feelings. From my standpoint, we were entirely compatible there. Additionally, she seemed to want a life where she didn't have to work, but rather just called her friends, went to plays or musical events or ballgames or swimming in the lake or going to bars or for a night out at a nice restaurant, and I was able to pay for all of that. She also was looking for a person who would buy her clothes and groceries and pay her rent, and I did that, too. It was definitely a "sex for money, money for sex" kind of relationship, but we also genuinely, and primarily, liked each other. I mean, I liked to hang out with her whether we were having sex or not, and she liked hanging out with me, whether I was paying her electric bill or not.

    You can think about a relationship between a man and a woman in terms of resources. Women, of course, have access to the most valuable thing in the world, which is the ability to have children. This is the thing of greatest value which they can trade on.
    Men, in turn, have the ability to protect woman (and kids) from the environment, and to accumulate resources to support them. This is what men have to trade on. Both trades are related to reproduction, but in modern society, we could, if we were being crude, call this "sex for money".

    When you think about it, trading sex for money, or providing a mother with a good home and a father with good children, is something that we all do to various degrees. Only the terms of the exchange differ from one case to another. Only the details matter, and they should only matter to the people involved.
    Sex stopped after 10 years? I think you mentioned you have kids so I'll bet money once the kids hit a certain level of development the sex suddenly dried up. If so this tracks with all the theories I've constantly laid out here recently. Namely, attachment issues and how they manifest. Once "mommy" sees the distress you're apparently causing the kids by not truly bonding with them then you go from "My Husband" to "The enemy of my children".

    To anyone, and I mean anyone but especially Men, if the sex dries up after kids enter the picture then the absolute first thing you must do is fix the issue with the kid's attachment. Mommy/Your Wife is locked into seeing you as an enemy to her children until you do down to the hardware of her very brain. Only once you fix your relationship with her kid(s) will she then be open to the possibility that maybe you're not so bad after all and she should be open to the possibility of spawning more of your children.

    Hell, once she sees her children cooing, smiling, and overall being happy in your presence instead (or, if they're older, speaking of you in now glowing terms whereas they used to denigrate and disdain the fact you are their father) she'll throw herself at you so hard you'll scarcely believe you're dealing with the same person. The thunder cunt is now so submissive and breedable it'll make your head spin if you are ignorant of what I've come to learn.

    If you just so happen to get all this while having a few ex-wives, well, pick the one whose life goals are most compatible with your own life goals and encourage the others to look for good Step-fathers. You could just go for the third option and wife up an outside party, but that's additional complications. It can still work but that's gonna be even more work.

    I will say you're setting yourself up for a metric fuckton of work if you want to wife up an outside party who is also a Lesbian ESI. If you're that down bad for her O.K., you do you. Though I will also remind you that ultimate happiness in romantic relationships is far more dependent on at least one party being "secure" attachment wise. Especially the male for obvious reasons if we get into the field of evolutionary psychology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    The thunder cunt is now so submissive and breedable it'll make your head spin if you are ignorant of what I've come to learn.
    Quoted for posterity.

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    Hm I had a date with a dual. It was kinda good, but I can’t tell if the chemistry is quite right. I’m hoping when we see each other again he will come out of his shell a bit. But I don’t know, it could just be that we’re better as friends. Maybe something could grow..

    so much for thinking I had some good matches

    the only really good matches I had were at the start of the pandemic, when everyone was using apps. Recently I matched with some people I thought seemed nice..but I don’t know maybe they seem a bit too safe.

    maybe I need to be open to something in between..nice-ish/hot-ish

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Hm I had a date with a dual. It was kinda good, but I can’t tell if the chemistry is quite right. I’m hoping when we see each other again he will come out of his shell a bit. But I don’t know, it could just be that we’re better as friends. Maybe something could grow..

    so much for thinking I had some good matches

    the only really good matches I had were at the start of the pandemic, when everyone was using apps. Recently I matched with some people I thought seemed nice..but I don’t know maybe they seem a bit too safe.

    maybe I need to be open to something in between..nice-ish/hot-ish
    In my experience, Duals are hard to meet because their interests are so different from ours, but they don't step on our toes (because there is no competition between people who specialize in opposite areas). So they can be really easy to get along with, in almost every area.

    However, just because a person never competes with you, that does not mean that they are also supportive to your goals, nor does it mean that they are nice people.

    I think of Duality as a "necessary but not sufficient" trait. A good Dual and I also have to be going in the same direction and have the same goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I think of Duality as a "necessary but not sufficient" trait. A good Dual and I also have to be going in the same direction and have the same goals.
    my comment deleted by accident..yeah that's a good way of putting it

    He definitely seems supportive..I think we need a couple more dates. I need him to be a bit more confident... But we haven't seen each other for a while now which I think is good, as it allows the confusing/weird/exciting feelings to wear off a bit and you can have a fresh take on things when you do meet again. First date involved dancing..good sign. It was fun but I was too tired and maybe he wasn't trying hard enough coz I seemed a bit loopy or whatever.

    But I think it'll take a couple more dates to see if there is something

    I've thought about messaging a couple of other people but I haven't. I wanna give it a good chance.
    Last edited by Bethany; 06-22-2022 at 08:06 PM.

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    I have read a lot about ESIs over the years, and I’m constantly comparing what has been said about them to my own experiences with them.

    One of the things I encountered was stated by E J Arendee, in his great video on how to seduce each type. About ESIs, he said, “Hit on them once. Let them know that you are interested. Then never speak to them again. They no longer exist. They will do the rest.”

    Well, I’ve thought about that a lot and it has never seemed to be true. Almost the opposite, in fact. I ask an ESI out, and maybe she agrees, then getting a second date or a third is a brutal exercise in patience and persistence.

    But today was different.

    I was having a business lunch with two colleagues at an outdoor restaurant, when an ESI and her mother walked by and sat at the next table, with the ESI facing me. The ESI and her mother were dressed alike in a yellow outfit which showed lots of arm and legs. At first, the ESI was just talking with her mother (who was not ESI), but after a minute, she saw me examining her, trying to decide if she really was an ESI. And I think she was; an ESI-Se. She definitely looked like the sports model. She could have played tennis in that outfit.
    She return my gaze, blank at first, but then with some interest.

    To be clear, I was in a town that I’ll probably never visit again and my interest was mainly theoretical, but she, being an Fi-dom, assumed that I must have been smitten by her beauty. Lol, because the dispassionate logic of classification is not part of her universe. Face-wise, she was only a 6 out of ten, and I’ve seen a ten or two, so my interest was just hypothetical.

    Anyway, at that moment, I got a call and spent some time on the phone, and then returned to the conversation with my companions. I ignored her, in other words, although not intentionally.

    Later, after we had finished our lunch and were swapping stories about bad management, the ESI and her mother got ready to leave. I glanced up at her and she locked her eyes on mine. She smiled. It was a serious “come on” smile. She stood up, still holding my gaze, still smiling, and bent forward over the table to better show her cleavage. It was a serious challenge to me.

    Let me just say, I’m a Victim but I felt weird as hell. Like I was a bug, transfixed by a pin in a display case. She stood up, turned to walk away, but glanced over her shoulder at me, still smiling. I felt like I needed a shield and a steel jock strap.

    Well, OK. So I finally experienced the thing that Arendee spoke about. But I did so only with this one ESI-Se, although I think I could extrapolate the behavior of my lesbian ESI-Se decorator to the same point. On the other hand, I’d bet money that an ESI-Fi would not do that.

    Arendee is probably an SLE-Ti, and it is reasonable to assume that the ESI whom he got that information from was probably an ESI-Se, since SLEs are allergic to valued Fi.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-25-2022 at 05:47 AM.

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    @Adam Strange Lol Adam that's what you get for staring at strangers. I know what you mean about ESI-se..there are two at my work. They are quite captivating. Some LIEs have a strange power over me too- I end up wanting to be physically near them.

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    So I started to feel like I was attracted to the SLE I had a date with. We have been talking loads....of course as soon as I realise this, he stops messaging me back. I was a bit upset...I'll wait and see if we can talk a bit more..

    He seems like a nice guy. And it's funny, I expected to be more upset, but it's almost like the experience of getting to know a dual, makes you stronger. (Also, I think I am starting to become a more mature and realistic person). But yeah you hear of duals separating...not realising how good they had it. It's like the experience of duality makes them feel like they can go out into the world and get what they really want (or need in some cases).

    So if nothing comes of this, then I'm either gonna message a very hot SEE photographer..or message the SEI who wanted to go on a date before I met the SLE.

    I'm glad I am feeling ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    So I started to feel like I was attracted to the SLE I had a date with. We have been talking loads....of course as soon as I realise this, he stops messaging me back. I was a bit upset...I'll wait and see if we can talk a bit more..

    He seems like a nice guy. And it's funny, I expected to be more upset, but it's almost like the experience of getting to know a dual, makes you stronger. (Also, I think I am starting to become a more mature and realistic person). But yeah you hear of duals separating...not realising how good they had it. It's like the experience of duality makes them feel like they can go out into the world and get what they really want (or need in some cases).

    So if nothing comes of this, then I'm either gonna message a very hot SEE photographer..or message the SEI who wanted to go on a date before I met the SLE.

    I'm glad I am feeling ok.
    @Bethany, I think I know what you are describing. This same thing happened to me when I first (knowingly) started talking to Duals. They DO give you confidence to go out into the world. In my case, a LOT of confidence.

    Yes.

    They gave me confidence that I could go out with anyone, and so I did that a few times, and found that "anyone" was always missing something that the Duals had.

    Now I'm spoiled.

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    @Adam Strange I wanna message him but I have no idea what I’d say. I’m guessing he’s annoyed about something. See how I feel in a couple more days. I think he thinks he’s really nice..and I’ve probably offended him by not being appreciative or something lol. He is nice, but not like a saint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange I wanna message him but I have no idea what I’d say. I’m guessing he’s annoyed about something. See how I feel in a couple more days. I think he thinks he’s really nice..and I’ve probably offended him by not being appreciative or something lol. He is nice, but not like a saint.
    @Bethany, depending on how mature he is, he might be thinking a lot about how he feels when he's around you, and is puzzled by the fact that you seem to like him and don't think he's some kind of worthless dirtbag.

    He might even be thinking that he needs to up his game if he's going to hang out with you, and is wondering if it's worth it, because "upping one's game" is not the easiest thing to do in the world.

    SLEs and LIEs have the same dimensionality of Fe and Fi, and I can tell you that I, personally, don't expect to be liked, so when someone does seem to like me, I get suspicious about what they want. Basically, because I don't feel like I deserve to be liked. It's one of the reasons I try to help people, financially, and why SLEs try to help people, physically. It provides a reason that I can understand as to why someone is hanging around.

    ESIs like to get support and help with Te things, and IEIs like to get support and help with Se things, so it works out. But in the initial stages of a relationship, if someone likes me before I do a bunch of stuff for them, I get suspicious.

    My guess is that he's waiting for you to call him and ask for his credit card numbers, because that's been his experience in the past.
    Don't do that.

    In any case, you should give him a couple more days (which you naturally felt was appropriate) to think about it. Let him call you. Or if you decide to call him in a few days, just offer your natural "nice-ness", which IEIs have in abundance. Don't ask him for anything. Maybe tell him you know of a nice little place that has good tea, and you think he'd like the place. He probably won't give a damn about the ambiance, but he'll be feeling you out in person to see what the hell makes you tick.
    And, of course, he'll want to see you in order to get another hit off that Duality drug. He might not know what it is, but he'll soon discover where it comes from by process of elimination.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-26-2022 at 07:00 PM.

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    @Adam Strange thanks..I appreciate your insight, I do. Yeah he’s being a a bit secretive about his job/ job applications so it does seem like he’s got his guard up a bit. Also, he might need some time to realise that I wasn’t actually being that annoying

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange thanks..I appreciate your insight, I do. Yeah he’s being a a bit secretive about his job/ job applications so it does seem like he’s got his guard up a bit. Also, he might need some time to realise that I wasn’t actually being that annoying
    If it helps, SLEs all want to rule the world, and since none of them do (no one does), they can be a bit defensive about the fact that their job title isn't "ruler of the world."

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    @Adam Strange.. I dunno..it’s out of character that he would ghost me..maybe he’s just weird. Some British men are quite arrogant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange.. I dunno..it’s out of character that he would ghost me..maybe he’s just weird. Some British men are quite arrogant
    @Bethany, I don’t think he ghosted you. I think he’s thinking about the relationship. With low Ni, that means “doubt first”. He might be busy with immediate stuff, or is waiting to see what you will do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Bethany, I don’t think he ghosted you. I think he’s thinking about the relationship. With low Ni, that means “doubt first”. He might be busy with immediate stuff, or is waiting to see what you will do.
    Hmm..ok…I guess I’ll have to message at some point (even if it’s uncomfortable)..but if he then doesn’t message back then I suppose we’ll have our answer.

    We were in the middle of arranging when to meet..we kept changing our availability..and he suddenly stopped messaging. I don’t know, he earlier asked me about something ‘in a caring way’ and perhaps I closed him down a bit, beats me. I feel bad for him if took that offensively :/ I’d like a second date as we didn’t get to talk properly on the first date.

    I’ve said this before on here…but I’ll never go on a date again when I’m feeling under the weather. It’s so counter-productive and a very bad idea when you’ve never met the person before.

    he reminds me a little of the SEI jerk/my colleague. I don’t know what that is, worries me a little.
    Last edited by Bethany; 06-27-2022 at 01:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Hmm..ok…I guess I’ll have to message at some point (even if it’s uncomfortable)..but if he then doesn’t message back then I suppose we’ll have our answer.

    We were in the middle of arranging when to meet..we kept changing our availability..and he suddenly stopped messaging. I don’t know, he earlier asked me about something ‘in a caring way’ and perhaps I closed him down a bit, beats me. I feel bad for him if took that offensively :/ I’d like a second date as we didn’t get to talk properly on the first date.

    I’ve said this before on here…but I’ll never go on a date again when I’m feeling under the weather. It’s so counter-productive and a very bad idea when you’ve never met the person before.

    he reminds me a little of the SEI jerk/colleague. I don’t know what that is, worries me a little.
    Trust your instincts, Bethany. I think they are reliable.

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