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Thread: Adventures in Dating

  1. #441
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Yea my ESI ex hated anything that even seemed like a personality test. Felt like it's unnatural to be defined.



    So there's this obvious LSE at my gym, she talks a whole lot, she's a personal trainer there so she talks alot about good form, diet, and her own allergies a ton and in great detail. Pretty assertive in enforcing gyms rules too. Reminds me of other LSEs I know. She's fairly attractive and is in real good shape.

    So how do I approach this chick? I don't wanna spend any money on a personal trainer, and that would make me a client instead of a romantic interest so that's a no-go, and the last time I approached a female LSE I had no intentions, I just made an observation about something she did which I thought was funny and the observation came off in a playful and teasing way which just seemed to work really well for her, but it was all natural, nothing forced.

    I see no real opportunities for that with this girl, and I don't want to force anything so I'm not sure how to manufacture an opportunity or just be straight up with her, but straight up doesn't work for a 1D Te/ Se like me so that wouldn't be me playing to my strengths, I also don't want to ask for advice because she seems kinda long-winded and that would put me in a teacher/student spot which is not fun for me, do I even want this chick lol? Plus if things go south it would be real awkward seeing her at the gym again, since she works there.
    @Lord Pixel, it sounds to me like you're planning on which college your kids will be going to. Maybe scale back your expectations? Try to forget that she's a Dual and just talk to her normally.

    I know a lot of LSEs and I can't say that any of them are married to a Dual. Most of them don't seem to like their Duals or, more often, vice-versa.

    About the only time I saw a female LSE actually having a great time with a male EII was when I visited my LSE mother in the nursing home. She was deep into Alzheimers and I'd never, ever seen her engaged in a conversation with a man who wasn't my SLI dad, but there she was, looking pissed off (she always looked pissed off) but sitting and talking with this EII guy who was also an Alzheimer's patient. Neither one of them could put together two coherent sentences, but they were immensely enjoying each other's company.

    So, your best weapon is your voice. Just talk to her about anything. Eventually, she'll either start liking you or she won't.

    I was barely familiar with this EII guy at work, but when we all met at a bar/restaurant after hours one Friday, this guy chose to sit next to me. I thought, "Damn. This is going to be sooo boring."
    But it wasn't. He just sat there and talked about random stuff and I found myself really enjoying the conversation. I thought he was playful and funny. And I'm only a Semi-Dual.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you guys get along, you might have to be the one to suggest lunch nearby. I think that LSE females are probably either inert or, if they think you are the One, are going to give you an ultimatum. "Marry me now or never ask me again." But this is just a wild-ass guess, based on very little experience.

    Oh, one other thing that might help you.
    I have an LSE sister who is married to an IEI (Yes! It's a horrible marriage that she is determined to make work.) We know a couple that is female SLI and male EII, and the male EII was spending a lot of time around my sister, asking her if he could be of help, etc.
    I told my LSE sister that the EII was her Dual and he was acting like he liked her. She said to me that it didn't matter in the slightest if he liked her or not. She thought he was a jerk because he treated his SLI wife like shit.
    That's what she said. I thought he was sometimes mean to her to escape her telling him what to do, or maybe I have that wrong, but it seemed to me that they had a relationship where they did not mesh perfectly. He wasn't totally mean to her, but he wasn't all that great to her, either. So, don't treat people like shit around the LSE. It will not improve her opinion of you.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-28-2022 at 12:09 AM.

  2. #442

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Lord Pixel, it sounds to me like you're planning on which college your kids will be going to. Maybe scale back your expectations? Try to forget that she's a Dual and just talk to her normally.
    Lol, I promise I'm not, I'm not even sure if I'd want anything with this girl, I just don't even know how to get into a conversation with her since I have no reason to talk to her. She's using that machine over there, I'm using this one over here, what am I gonna do randomly approach her and say "Hey we are duals, I just wanna see if my voice works on you, ...are you hypnotized yet?" only if it was so easy lol.

    But yea, forgetting she's a dual might help, that worked for the last LSE girl I talked to mostly because I didn't know her type. Her type was only revealed to me because the situation was consistently an anomaly in my personal experience. She was an 8.5/10 and I was calm af talking to her, which has never happened in all my years, she also got on with my sense of humor immediately and she broke past all my stranger barriers that I wasn't even aware of having until I realized she was past them.


    I know a lot of LSEs and I can't say that any of them are married to a Dual. Most of them don't seem to like their Duals or, more often, vice-versa.
    I see alot of EII hate for LSE for sure. I know only 2 couples who are LSE female and EII male, and their biggest issues seem to be lack of communication on the EII's part. The EII has a problem that he's overthinking in his head and the LSE wants to know all the problems so they can come up with a solution but the EII is mulling over it, so the LSE gets frustrated and essentially tells the EII to speak up, but not all things the EII is thinking or feeling are easily put into words. Which I can see would be a problem. Another couple I saw on a forum got divorced because her musician EII husband never got a real job, which I think is probably more typical if an LSE especially female got with an EII male, and the LSE probably finds an LSI after a marriage like that.


    About the only time I saw a female LSE actually having a great time with a male EII was when I visited my LSE mother in the nursing home. She was deep into Alzheimers and I'd never, ever seen her engaged in a conversation with a man who wasn't my SLI dad, but there she was, looking pissed off (she always looked pissed off) but sitting and talking with this EII guy who was also an Alzheimer's patient. Neither one of them could put together two coherent sentences, but they were immensely enjoying each other's company.

    So, your best weapon is your voice. Just talk to her about anything. Eventually, she'll either start liking you or she won't.
    I guess it's never too late to meet a dual lol, even in a nursing home. I hope it doesn't take me that long.

    Hm, I do know the Te voice on a woman is attractive to me sometimes, so maybe it goes both ways, I hadn't considered that. It is hard to view yourself objectively in that way, usually when we hear our own voices on recording we are shocked at the way we sound because we sound so different in our own head.



    I was barely familiar with this EII guy at work, but when we all met at a bar/restaurant after hours one Friday, this guy chose to sit next to me. I thought, "Damn. This is going to be sooo boring."
    But it wasn't. He just sat there and talked about random stuff and I found myself really enjoying the conversation. I thought he was playful and funny. And I'm only a Semi-Dual.
    Oh yea I remember you mentioned this guy before. Yea I have a couple LIE friends and with one of them we have a really good time, I get the sense that he doesn't feel I am a competitive threat to him or something, because otherwise he's a pretty intense guy. It's like when he's around me it's like he tells himself "Ok, weapons down."


    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you guys get along, you might have to be the one to suggest lunch nearby. I think that LSE females are probably either inert or, if they think you are the One, are going to give you an ultimatum. "Marry me now or never ask me again." But this is just a wild-ass guess, based on very little experience.
    Damn, 2 inert mfers. It is rough trying to get someone else to do something with 1D Se, even when I am successful it is always a shock like "Wait, you're actually gonna to do what I said?". This doesn't necessarily feel like I'm leading with Fi or something, even though it's in the area of relations, leading with Fi would be more like, ok I see your having a bad time so I'll put my arm around you and just sit next to you in silence while you just feel it out, or taking someone somewhere I think they like according to things they said, ok maybe I just solved the problem.

    The ultimatum thing is scary and kinda weird ngl. But I can see how it's an overboard use of 1D LSE functions, Fi and Ni. It seems like if LSE some how makes it to the point of wanting to be with somebody they go all the way in. My LSE friend right now met a girl recently and he's already got her meeting the mom and everything, and is anticipating getting married.


    Oh, one other thing that might help you.
    I have an LSE sister who is married to an IEI (Yes! It's a horrible marriage that she is determined to make work.) We know a couple that is female SLI and male EII, and the male EII was spending a lot of time around my sister, asking her if he could be of help, etc.
    I told my LSE sister that the EII was her Dual and he was acting like he liked her. She said to me that it didn't matter in the slightest if he liked her or not. She thought he was a jerk because he treated his SLI wife like shit.
    That's what she said. I thought he was sometimes mean to her to escape her telling him what to do, or maybe I have that wrong, but it seemed to me that they had a relationship where they did not mesh perfectly. He wasn't totally mean to her, but he wasn't all that great to her, either.
    It's a shame because I have really really good relations with SLI, the best after ESI, but there are issues because of how good the relations are it's easy to develop unspoken expectations and then the problems arise. Best friends when things are going great, but useless to each other when things aren't, and that can be a major letdown all because your expectations got higher and higher over time with how good everything was going.

    So, don't treat people like shit around the LSE. It will not improve her opinion of you.
    I imagine this is true for most people though.

  3. #443
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm not dating this woman, but I thought I'd post this here for the benefit of other LIEs.
    Don't knock it 'till you've tried it, Adam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I know a lot of LSEs, and not one of them would be caught dead wearing any of that, so she wasn't LSE after all.
    Not only LSEs wouldn't want to even be caught dead anything like that, me neither. Whenever I see some psychology students wearing that, my gaze tends to fixate on it and I just imagine the snot that it must conceal. Gross. It looks to me like they robbed a bull of his nose ring. Those nose ringed students tend to fall into one of two groups. There are the weird, but nice ones. They can wear all gothic clothing, while their personality is as warm and optimistic as sunshine. They tend to identify as gothics, because they suffer from depression. And there are the weird and Karen ones. They wear short, brightly dyed red, blue, or even green hair, more often than not wear glasses, frequently have multiple piercings besides the nose ring, and one or more tattoos with the suicidal lyrics of a song of their favourite emo band inscribed on their arm or they have a tattoo of Harry Potter or Life Must Be Strange character, because they use fiction as escapism. Besides the depression these ones generally also suffer from borderline personality disorder, which is not mere conjecture on my behalf as a psychology student, but because they discussed this in different workgroups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I wrote down a link to Sociotype.com/tests and asked her to take the test there.
    Ah, is that your method? Mine is to discuss that they do X like I do, which we have in common, but others do Y. And I then mention if they are familiar with the psychological theory that discusses this? They all don't, but it piques their curiosity. Then I tell them it's called Socionics and send them this PDF: http://francois-garet.e-monsite.com/...onics-type.pdf
    I inform them that I'm a LIE, and I believe them to be for instance an ISFj. But I won't tell them the Socionics translation of it just yet, because I don't want to bias them before they had the opportunity to read it themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    The gay male SEE who was working with her was watching all of this and seemed really interested in the test, especially when I told him that he was probably the "Caesar-Conqueror" SEE, but the girl gave me a sour look, as if she didn't believe for a minute that people could be placed into boxes, and if they can, then she really didn't like the idea.
    Which is pure ESI. Pure ESI. Socionics is very Ti, and ESIs don't like Ti very much. No ESI I've ever met IRL likes Socionics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    She said she knew about MBTI and she's an INTJ. Which is ridiculous. She said she got INTJ, ISFJ, INFJ, sometimes T and sometimes F, but always IxxJ.
    LOL, this is just like my ESI-Se cycling friend. He doesn't believe in Socionics and thinks it all way too out there. Only when getting his questionnaire result did he realize it's just like the MBTI test he did previously. According to his Socionics and MBTI test results he would be an ILI, but I have several ILI friends and he is not like them. At the national historical museum he didn't even know what hieroglyphs are. He asked me if that's the Egyptian alphabet. His naivity is cute. He also mentioned at the pharaohs and tombs section how he believes that in our culture the appreciation of art has been lost compared to the Egyptians. An ILI would instead have mentioned some fact on the labyrinths through which the pharaohs wished to ensure their eternal rest, even going so far as killing the architects and builders to keep it a secret. My ESI-Se cycling friend also hits the Gym regularly and helps me with my emotional struggles, while I provide him study tips. By all means, he is an ESI and I'm as sure of it as that I'm a LIE.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    So how do I approach this chick?
    If you're nearby and she is not actively working (important, don't disturb a Te lead in work mode) ask her if she saw that cute baby bird flying passed the window? Before you go to the Gym look up a cute baby bird that could be found in the area, so you don't have to look for words to describe nor that you would describe some exotic bird from Madagascar. It's a little white lie to open up the conversation, catch her off guard, and endear her to you, because it makes you look innocent instead of a rebellious rulebreaking Beta. After you've started the conversation it's all up to you two how it progresses, because you'll need two to tango. At least this might break the ice for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Plus if things go south it would be real awkward seeing her at the gym again, since she works there.
    There are many Gyms, but few dateworthy people who are also duals. Take your chances now that you've encountered an opportunity!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    It is rough trying to get someone else to do something with 1D Se, even when I am successful it is always a shock like "Wait, you're actually gonna to do what I said?".
    Unless you pressure someone into doing your bidding, would this not be Te when you attempt to convince someone to do something or Fe when you try to persuade them?
    Last edited by Armitage; 03-28-2022 at 08:59 PM.

  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    Don't knock it 'till you've tried it, Adam.
    @Armitage, she's actually very pretty in a warm, accepting way and I'm intrigued by her, but she's not thin. She's not fat, either, but rather she's solidly built, and that is a bridge too far for me.

    So, no danger that I'm ever going to get involved with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    Not only LSEs wouldn't want to even be caught dead anything like that, me neither. Whenever I see some psychology students wearing that, my gaze tends to fixate on it and I just imagine the snot that it must conceal. Gross. It looks to me like they robbed a bull of his nose ring. Those nose ringed students tend to fall into one of two groups. There are the weird, but nice ones. They can wear all gothic clothing, while their personality is as warm and optimistic as sunshine. They tend to identify as gothics, because they suffer from depression. And there are the weird and Karen ones. They wear short, brightly dyed red, blue, or even green hair, more often than not wear glasses, frequently have multiple piercings besides the nose ring, and one or more tattoos with the suicidal lyrics of a song of their favourite emo band inscribed on their arm or they have a tattoo of Harry Potter or Life Must Be Strange character, because they use fiction as escapism. Besides the depression these ones generally also suffer from borderline personality disorder, which is not mere conjecture on my behalf as a psychology student, but because they discussed this in different workgroups.
    I liked the colorful shirt and her earrings, but I specifically said nothing about her nose ring. I kind of hate this kind of thing on women, too. Just a personal preference of mine. Women should look like models, not cattle.
    But she wasn't wearing the nose ring because she's goth. She really isn't close to being goth, but rather I think she had it done because it's a way for her to decorate herself. Probably she has friends who do this, IDK, and she sees it as being normal. It's just her bad luck to run into a dinosaur like myself who thinks that's low-class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I wrote down a link to Sociotype.com/tests and asked her to take the test there. The gay male SEE who was working with her was watching all of this and seemed really interested in the test, especially when I told him that he was probably the "Caesar-Conqueror" SEE, but the girl gave me a sour look, as if she didn't believe for a minute that people could be placed into boxes, and if they can, then she really didn't like the idea.
    Which is pure ESI. Pure ESI. Socionics is very Ti, and ESIs don't like Ti very much. No ESI I've ever met IRL likes Socionics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    Ah, is that your method? Mine is to discuss that they do X like I do, which we have in common, but others do Y. And I then mention if they are familiar with the psychological theory that discusses this? They all don't, but it piques their curiosity. Then I tell them it's called Socionics and send them PDF: http://francois-garet.e-monsite.com/...onics-type.pdf
    I inform them that I'm a LIE, and I believe them to be for instance an ISFj. But I won't tell them the Socionics translation of it just yet, because I don't want to bias them before they had the opportunity to read it themselves.
    Yes, that has been my method, and it's terrible. I'm seeing that it alienates the ESIs right away, and if they haven't been given a very good reason for liking me before I tell them about Socionics, I don't get a second chance.
    Your method is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    LOL, this is just like my ESI-Se cycling friend. He doesn't believe in Socionics and thinks it all way too out there. Only when getting his questionnaire result did he realize it's just like the MBTI test he did previously. According to his Socionics and MBTI test results he would be an ILI, but I have several ILI friends and he is not like them. At the national historical museum he didn't even know what hieroglyphs are and asked me if that's the Egyptian alphabet. He also mentioned at the pharaohs how he believes that in our culture the appreciation of art has been lost compared to the Egyptians. He also hits the Gym regularly and helps me with my emotional struggles, while I provide him study tips. By all means, he is an ESI and I'm as sure of it as that I'm a LIE.
    Yes, it would seem that any artificial attempt to initiate relations with a Dual is going to be doomed by one or the other for being too fucking weird and a sign that you aren't dealing with a person who acts the way that your Dual does naturally (cluelessly).


  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I met my husband on Tinder after I unsuccessfully dated for almost 10 years (I have stories...). I resisted this advice for a long long time, but now I am a believer: if it's difficult early on, it's not worth it. It won't go anywhere. I wasted so much time on trying to rationalize someone's odd behavior.

    Also, never ever use Plenty of Fish. All the major creeps I met, I met there. The Tinder and OkCupid creeps were a lot less creepy in their creepiness.
    Yeah, it's interesting. Tinder led to some major changes in my life after meeting an IEE there 7 years ago. She lived across the sea in the neighboring country (only 80km as the crow flies, but inconvenient ferry schedules). After just a couple of months of dating weekends (driving 10 hours one way, it did give some more hours there than taking the ferry), I left my job and life in the old country behind and moved together with her. One year later our daughter was born. That's when the problems started, neither of us wanted to compromise our freedom and free time and a lot of arguments started, turning into coldness from my side and bluntness from her side. After 3 years, I had enough after a cold patch and wanted to end the relationship (at some level I think I just wanted her to show me that she really wanted to be with me, and not just in words). She moved back to her old hometown 5 hours drive away, but I pretty much immediately found myself driving every single weekend and vacations to her and our child. After 4 years and countless of kilometers driven, I've now found a new job up here and moved into a rented apartment in the same village she lives in.

    It's been one hell of an adventure and I don't know how it will end. But it seems like it became something I just wasn't able to let go of, unlike other relationships in my life. So I don't know, it was super great and easy immediately but then some major difficulties appeared. However compared to the other relationships she has had, this is the most enduring one, and the same goes for me if you factor in all the obstacles. But maybe it's the super-ego ITR.

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, it's interesting. Tinder led to some major changes in my life after meeting an IEE there 7 years ago. She lived across the sea in the neighboring country (only 80km as the crow flies, but inconvenient ferry schedules). After just a couple of months of dating weekends (driving 10 hours one way, it did give some more hours there than taking the ferry), I left my job and life in the old country behind and moved together with her. One year later our daughter was born. That's when the problems started, neither of us wanted to compromise our freedom and free time and a lot of arguments started, turning into coldness from my side and bluntness from her side. After 3 years, I had enough after a cold patch and wanted to end the relationship (at some level I think I just wanted her to show me that she really wanted to be with me, and not just in words). She moved back to her old hometown 5 hours drive away, but I pretty much immediately found myself driving every single weekend and vacations to her and our child. After 4 years and countless of kilometers driven, I've now found a new job up here and moved into a rented apartment in the same village she lives in.

    It's been one hell of an adventure and I don't know how it will end. But it seems like it became something I just wasn't able to let go of, unlike other relationships in my life. So I don't know, it was super great and easy immediately but then some major difficulties appeared. However compared to the other relationships she has had, this is the most enduring one, and the same goes for me if you factor in all the obstacles. But maybe it's the super-ego ITR.

    Plus, having a kid with someone changes everything. A guy starts to think long-term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I resisted this advice for a long long time, but now I am a believer: if it's difficult early on, it's not worth it. It won't go anywhere. I wasted so much time on trying to rationalize someone's odd behavior.
    nice advice, ta. Were some of the difficult people duals..? Guessing some..
    Last edited by Bethany; 04-02-2022 at 12:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diametric View Post
    I was referring to the "higher-quality" ("higher-quality" is quite subjective here) matches when it came to good-looking people because they often have 100s of possible matches to choose from.
    yeah I have to remind myself to swipe right/ like both hotties as well as people who look nice-ish. If one is really serious about meeting someone, and doesn't want to wait too long, it's important to look out for hidden gems. The hot ones are distracting and the interesting ones can be a complete waste of time.

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    I just started using Tinder after an SLE suggested I do on a sort of date. And now I’m taking to what feels like an SLE who grew up in my area. Yay Tinder

  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Kim, I agree with you about Plenty of Fish being close to the bottom of the barrel. The only one which was worse was the local dating classified section of a “sell your stuff online” website, but that got closed down after being accused of enabling the solicitation of prostitution. Lol. Those people were truly disgusting.

    However, I disagree with you when you advise giving up if it’s difficult early on. Maybe we differ in the definition of “difficult” and “early on”, but I have uniformly found that ESIs were just a bit jarring on first dates, and I had to power through, suspend judgement, and tell myself “Keep going. Don’t give up. This is normal gear-grinding on startup and things will get better.” And they do, after a few hours, after a few dates.

    This also happened with my SLI ex-wife. She did some things early on which made me think she might be hiding some form of insanity. But it was just normal differences and we went on and had a fairly happy marriage for many years.

    The dates which did not work out so well were the ones where everything was initially fantastic until it suddenly wasn’t. Mirage, Extinguishment, Super-Ego, Conflictor, Mirror, Supervision, etc. Everything but Duality. Duality seems to be initially difficult for me, but then just gets steadily better, as long as the Dual doesn’t find our differences to be too much to take and bails out after the first few dates.
    I am actually very tolerant of unusual behavior and quirks. What I meant was odd dating behavior, most specifically push pull after those first few dates. It happened SO MANY times that people were initially super excited, then retreated, then came back, etc. Or super excited people vanished into thin air and would reappear later with bullshit excuses. If you can't feel sure early on (and I mean when you both know you are dating) that it's going somewhere because the person is inconsistent emotionally, it's not worth pursuing.

    I don't share your intertype experiences - in my experience so much also has to do with life circumstances, personal histories, expectations, fears, etc. But I might send you a few pics of my husband for VI. I am still not sure.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  11. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, it's interesting. Tinder led to some major changes in my life after meeting an IEE there 7 years ago. She lived across the sea in the neighboring country (only 80km as the crow flies, but inconvenient ferry schedules). After just a couple of months of dating weekends (driving 10 hours one way, it did give some more hours there than taking the ferry), I left my job and life in the old country behind and moved together with her. One year later our daughter was born. That's when the problems started, neither of us wanted to compromise our freedom and free time and a lot of arguments started, turning into coldness from my side and bluntness from her side. After 3 years, I had enough after a cold patch and wanted to end the relationship (at some level I think I just wanted her to show me that she really wanted to be with me, and not just in words). She moved back to her old hometown 5 hours drive away, but I pretty much immediately found myself driving every single weekend and vacations to her and our child. After 4 years and countless of kilometers driven, I've now found a new job up here and moved into a rented apartment in the same village she lives in.

    It's been one hell of an adventure and I don't know how it will end. But it seems like it became something I just wasn't able to let go of, unlike other relationships in my life. So I don't know, it was super great and easy immediately but then some major difficulties appeared. However compared to the other relationships she has had, this is the most enduring one, and the same goes for me if you factor in all the obstacles. But maybe it's the super-ego ITR.
    This sounds very complicated, but it seems like the adjustments are working out fine? Are you back together?
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    yeah I have to remind myself to swipe right/ like both hotties as well as people who look nice-ish. If one is really serious about meeting someone, and doesn't want to wait too long, it's important to look out for hidden gems. The hot ones are distracting and the interesting ones can be a complete waste of time.
    Yes, that's what I did. I swiped right on people who I was mildly to very attracted to or, if I didn't find them super attractive, whose profile text appealed. I went on dates with all types over 10 years. When I saw my now-husband's profile, he fell into the "too hot AND great profile text so won't go anywhere because he will have a million matches" category. But I swiped anyway and we matched. We started chatting and he was so nice, so I thought "I am not that lucky, but we can be friends maybe" (we had both JUST moved into the city and were also looking for friends). We had our first date (I was not even nervous because I was convinced it would be just friendly), he was even more gorgeous, nice and charming in person. It was the best date of my life, more followed and now we are married.

    I will say though that I EARNED this after ABYSMAL dating experiences over a DECADE!

    But yeah, don't count out the hot ones.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I just started using Tinder after an SLE suggested I do on a sort of date. And now I’m taking to what feels like an SLE who grew up in my area. Yay Tinder
    I think Tinder is by far the best dating app, also because people seems to be much more willing to actually meet.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    This sounds very complicated, but it seems like the adjustments are working out fine? Are you back together?
    There were a lot of lessons to learn, and unfortunately the hard way. But yes, it looks like that's going to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by one;[URL="tel:1510187"
    1510187[/URL]]Did it start to work its way again before or after the issue with the house?
    Before

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I think Tinder is by far the best dating app, also because people seems to be much more willing to actually meet.
    Hinge and Bumble focus more on personality than Tinder, in my experience. On Hinge you have to come up with something to say to the person, in order to like them, which culls all those people who are liking everyone on Tinder just to date the hottest person who they match with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I think Tinder is by far the best dating app, also because people seems to be much more willing to actually meet.
    Oh my good lord you've set me off so hard it hurts. "Best" dating app? Tinder? Please do not even get me started on this one. Tinder (and its lookalikes like Grindr) are all about "Hook-Up" culture. That is, people who have deep attachment issues and who also have no idea what I'm referring to when I say those words.

    Willing to meet? Who? A total fucking stranger? Yeah, that's about it. ONS is as far as that goes at best. At worst? You both mistake that ONS as a "deep" emotional connection. It is not and will never be.

    Tinder dates are implicitly ONS's. The two of you are so utterly broken that you think that's just how it is. The woman found someone who valued her "sexy" body enough to overlook her glaring character flaws. The male found some dumb broad that was actually willing to give him the vaginal approval he so desperately desired. Everyone wins!

    Well, no they don't. Hell I'll wager you a bet. Try to go on a Tinder date and attempt to nab a peek at their I.D. I'll wager a vital body part that if you somehow succeed their "name" will not match. Only do this if you're feeling rather lucky enough to win the lotto however. I dare not goad anyone of any type into doing something this friggin' risky.

    Seriously, don't do this. I really mean that. Yet if you wish to provide me with this data point regardless despite my warnings...

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Willing to meet? Who? A total fucking stranger? Yeah, that's about it. ONS is as far as that goes at best. At worst? You both mistake that ONS as a "deep" emotional connection. It is not and will never be.
    You don't think ONS can produce deep emotional connections? Why not?

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    I have no idea if Tinder will prove any better than other apps. My first impression is that it feels quicker to use (literally quicker to look through profiles) and people seem slightly more attractive/interesting. There seem to be more quirky/ outgoing people there than on hinge/bumble. The other apps seem to have more of a pretence of being classy but they’re just as gross, possibly worse. I think I’d rather use the app that doesn’t pretend to be something better than it is.

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    Yesterday, my last LSI GF called me twice and left messages, which I didn’t read. She is like a powerful drug that I don’t want to start using again. Parts of our relationship were just the best, and other parts were the worst. I tried to point her towards a Dual so she’d have best and best, but apparently, she hasn’t been able to make sense of the situation and move on.

    I remember that my last ESI GF said that her first SEE husband was a drug addict and her second LSI husband betrayed her trust and her shrink said that her “man radar” was really off. She told me that it was off so much, that she didn’t think she could ever be in a relationship again.

    Relationships are hard. Especially if you are flying without a flight plan.

    Socionics might not be the best, or only, criterion for dating, but I think it can seriously reduce some of the worst heartaches.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-10-2022 at 01:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Socionics might not be the best, or only, criterion for dating, but I think it can seriously reduce some of the worst heartaches.
    yep it’s really useful if it’s used in a healthy way..once you learn from the mistakes of misusing it. And the Adventures in dating thread is cool tooo

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Oh my good lord you've set me off so hard it hurts. "Best" dating app? Tinder? Please do not even get me started on this one. Tinder (and its lookalikes like Grindr) are all about "Hook-Up" culture. That is, people who have deep attachment issues and who also have no idea what I'm referring to when I say those words.

    Willing to meet? Who? A total fucking stranger? Yeah, that's about it. ONS is as far as that goes at best. At worst? You both mistake that ONS as a "deep" emotional connection. It is not and will never be.

    Tinder dates are implicitly ONS's. The two of you are so utterly broken that you think that's just how it is. The woman found someone who valued her "sexy" body enough to overlook her glaring character flaws. The male found some dumb broad that was actually willing to give him the vaginal approval he so desperately desired. Everyone wins!

    Well, no they don't. Hell I'll wager you a bet. Try to go on a Tinder date and attempt to nab a peek at their I.D. I'll wager a vital body part that if you somehow succeed their "name" will not match. Only do this if you're feeling rather lucky enough to win the lotto however. I dare not goad anyone of any type into doing something this friggin' risky.

    Seriously, don't do this. I really mean that. Yet if you wish to provide me with this data point regardless despite my warnings...
    Your warning is a bit too late. I had lots of Tinder dates with no intention to hook up. I put that in my profile and told people before a date that I am not looking to hook up. The majority of my dates were pleasant, some lead to dating. Sure I met some creeps, but so what? You can meet creeps at the supermarket, too. Women at the club can also give you a fake name.

    Tinder used to be a hook-up date, but it's not anymore. People who want to hook up say so and you just swipe left on them. I have several good friends now who I met on Tinder (and never slept with).

    Maybe it's how you use it. It worked well for me.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Your warning is a bit too late. I had lots of Tinder dates with no intention to hook up. I put that in my profile and told people before a date that I am not looking to hook up. The majority of my dates were pleasant, some lead to dating. Sure I met some creeps, but so what? You can meet creeps at the supermarket, too. Women at the club can also give you a fake name.

    Tinder used to be a hook-up date, but it's not anymore. People who want to hook up say so and you just swipe left on them. I have several good friends now who I met on Tinder (and never slept with).

    Maybe it's how you use it. It worked well for me.

    All these dating sites are just a way to meet more people. What you do when you meet them is up to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    This is consoling to read, because it means that I still have 5 years left: https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1309...f-in-ten-years
    I think the alternative (becoming a crazy dog person) is pretty appealing, too. I was well on my way there and not too sad about it.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    All these dating sites are just a way to meet more people. What you do when you meet them is up to you.
    Exactly. My strategies were to make it clear I don't want to chat forever, that I am not looking for a hook-up, always meet for dinner on the first date so we can have a conversation (I lived in a very small town at the time with one decent restaurant in town. I am sure they thought I was an escort...), and weed out the ones who refuse to let me try their food or don't want to order desert after I told them I love desert. Also don't drink and always drive myself home. Weed out the ones who don't ask you to text them to let them know if you got home safely (especially when you have to drive long-ish distance). Weed out the ones who offer use of sex machines, whose accents don't match their life stories (granted those are my best dating stories).
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I have no idea if Tinder will prove any better than other apps. My first impression is that it feels quicker to use (literally quicker to look through profiles) and people seem slightly more attractive/interesting. There seem to be more quirky/ outgoing people there than on hinge/bumble. The other apps seem to have more of a pretence of being classy but they’re just as gross, possibly worse. I think I’d rather use the app that doesn’t pretend to be something better than it is.
    I think Tinder is also the most popular one, so more people to chose from? I totally agree on the classy pretense. It's just silly.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Well, no they don't. Hell I'll wager you a bet. Try to go on a Tinder date and attempt to nab a peek at their I.D. I'll wager a vital body part that if you somehow succeed their "name" will not match. Only do this if you're feeling rather lucky enough to win the lotto however. I dare not goad anyone of any type into doing something this friggin' risky.

    Seriously, don't do this. I really mean that. Yet if you wish to provide me with this data point regardless despite my warnings...
    We both know that you're trying to tempt people to follow your scheme, despite the risks inherent to it, while you try to claim the moral high ground through plausible deniability. Either be forthright about your motivations or don't mention it all is my advice, but this middleground seems inauthentic and fake. I didn't mince my words, because I know that you can handle it.

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    I was walking through the packed dirt-and-gravel parking lot of the Salvation Army store next to the railroad tracks, to buy lunch at the little specialty grocery nearby, when I saw a twenty-something woman standing outside, next to a shopping cart with a cardboard box in it.

    Since my path crossed right next to where she was standing, we made eye contact as I approached and she said "Hi".
    I said "Hi" in return, and since I was still approaching her and walking past her in silence would be awkward, I made a circle to maintain a stranger's distance and then stopped out of decency and asked her if the Salvation Army store still had clothes arranged by color?

    She laughed and said "They do!" and I told her that I hadn't been in there since they opened, but they seemed to have a lot of stuff in there.

    She said "You can get a lot of great deals in there. Some of this is new, some has only been worn once." She pulled what looked like a Cashmere sweater out of the box.
    "This looks like it is brand new. It would be over $100 new, and I got it for..." here, she showed me the price tag on the sweater "....ten dollars. You can find some great deals here."
    "Nice."
    "My ex wife, who was 5'8" and weighed 115 lbs, gave away a beautiful white silk dress to St. Vincent De Paul when she gained a few pounds, so I know about people getting rid of stuff that's barely been worn."
    She, herself, was dressed very simply and plainly, but you can always use a cashmere sweater. They are very warm. I've had one or two.
    I was watching her closely to try to assess which sociotype she was. She was easy to talk to and generally pleasant, but I couldn't decide between ESI and ESE. This might seem strange, but for some reason, and with some people, I have a hard time telling these two types apart in a short time. With more exposure, it becomes obvious, but we were standing in a parking lot.

    "Sometimes", she continued, "something is only missing a button."
    "I haven't sewn a button on a shirt since college. If I lose a button, I have to throw the shirt away."
    "I have a seamstress for that."
    "Really? What's her name?"
    "Olga", and she told me where Olga's shop was. Which was great! A resource. I have two shirts that are missing buttons but I haven't thrown them out yet.

    "Do you shop here often?", I asked.
    "Oh, no. I actually hate to shop. But I have two little boys..." I glanced at her left hand, which had no wedding ring "....and they are messy." She rubbed her hands up and down the front of her clothes.
    "Two little boys. So messy. They do art projects and get paint all over me, and food." I pictured two little kids making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
    "I solved the food preparation problem by eating most of my meals out", I said.
    "We mostly get carry out. I just got a new job that doubled my income, but buying new clothes is expensive, which is why I shop here. My name is Carrie, incidentally. What's yours?"
    "Hi, Carrie. My name is Adam, It's nice to meet you, but I should get lunch while there's still a selection left." I nodded towards the little store across the tracks.
    "Yes, you should. I'm just waiting for my ride." She waved her hand and looked around.
    "It was nice meeting you."
    "Nice meeting you, too." And off I went. For some reason, I could feel her eyes on my back as I walked across the tracks.

    When I got my lunch and returned, she was gone.

    A lot of very specific information exchanged hands in that short amount of time. She's trying hard, really hard. With two little boys, I can understand why.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-12-2022 at 02:44 PM.

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    SEE/SLE are pretty annoying people to talk to on apps. Unless you shower them in attention, they don’t understand that it takes two people to move a conversation along. Ewewew. Better put my fake nice hat on. Then they just find that weird. Silly people. I’m not great at small talk but at least I try :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    SEE/SLE are pretty annoying people to talk to on apps. Unless you shower them in attention, they don’t understand that it takes two people to move a conversation along. Ewewew. Better put my fake nice hat on. Then they just find that weird. Silly people. I’m not great at small talk but at least I try :/
    TRUE AND xSEs ARE THE SAME "))))
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better I’d help you
    if I was better you’d be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    TRUE AND xSEs ARE THE SAME "))))
    Interesting….I actually used to find it easier talking to people on apps. Two things have changed: I had some bad experiences..and I am now more committed to the idea of dating. So I have my guard up a bit too much I think, it feels real/scary. Need to relax a bit coz I’ve learned the hard lessons now..Actually an SLE told me to ‘have more fun with it’..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I know, right?! I can empathize with not actually being certain of what you want and with not wanting to hurt another person or burn any unnecessary bridges. But it sure makes it easier to receive when there's both a balance of grace and honesty. Like even a "I just don't think we're a good match" might be annoyingly vague for anyone who wants to improve, but it's more honest than other things.




    You are not these men. I'm fairly sure both are Alpha SFs, one SEI and the other ESE.

    After I got married, the ESE went and married a woman who looks a lot like me but who might be LII, though I haven't interacted with her enough to be confident in that. Her wedding dress was almost identical to mine, heh. The SEI is currently single, possibly forever; I think he might be giving up on romance, which is a shame because I think if he pulled himself together a little he'd be a great partner.

    I will advise you this: please be sure to be clear with your EII secretary that you're hanging out with her because you like her company as a platonic friend and you still have no interest in any sort of romance. Perhaps even offer to stop hanging out if it gets too confusing to her. And maybe bring it up every so often, especially if she gets flirty. I know you mean no harm but this kind of thing can really hurt.


    ----------------------------------

    [wall of text incoming:]

    Thinking more about it, while both were hurtful, it was the SEI who triggered the most anger in me, while the ESE was more... disappointing. The SEI I more or less figured out (in terms of what the pattern is, not his solution per se or what precisely led to his hangups); the ESE still confuses me.



    With the SEI, I eventually figured out I was part of a pattern of him getting infatuated with a woman, being very friendly and preferentially chummy, but avoiding any sort of commitment or purpose. "Let's just see where things go" that went nowhere. That had led to a LOT of hurt women, including quite a few in our mutual friends' circles. After he officially rejected me then shortly after started officially dating another woman (who he said "forced" him to do it or she would stop hanging out with him), he had the gall to restart flirting with me and tell me that I was "very special" to him. I got SUPER angry at that, lost my attraction to him, and basically cut him off for a couple of years. He went on to hurt another mutual friend and now seems to have given up on relationships.

    Now that I'm married, I'm slowly letting him back at amicable arms length - in part because he's a friend of my husband (they knew each other before me) and he's pretty lonely what with COVID divisions and his inability to forge lasting relationships. My husband knows all about the whole story and is ok with how things are and with continuing to invite him to group things.

    SEIs are a mystery to me too. I had my own very bad experience. One of the first things he said when we met were that his mates were all arseholes to women…and he himself projected an image of being saintly. It’s as if he thought acting like a gentleman at moments completely made up for him being a jerk the rest of the time. I gave him several chances to prove he could stop flirting and playing mind games with me. In the end I had to physically remove myself from him, like I was escaping an abusive relationship. When we first met he flirted, then he became disgusted/cool with me after I told him I liked him, then later he tried to be nice but by this point he couldn’t even be nice if he tried, he was not in control anymore and it was clear there was something between us whether he liked it or not. To this day I doubt he can see how out of control he was, I think there was some identity blurring between us, and I don’t think he was seeing reality as it was. He probably just thinks he ‘saw me as a friend’. I think this is partly as we are look-a-likes so there can be a bit of an underlying friend feeling, but it’s also I think something that comes and goes. Also, I think though we had incredible chemistry, he was more confident and successful than me, and my flaws were probably a bit of a turn off lol.

    I think SEIs are probably quite sensitive to the different feel of people’s sociotypes. I could see them judging people quickly, or over-estimating people based on first impressions. I imagine with me, he just knew it wasn’t as good as say a semi-dual. He told me ‘never going to happen’, it’s like he knew it wasn’t good enough, there was better. I could see them easily being infatuated with types that are easier to talk to- mirrors or activity partners.

    I once worked with another SEI for a year. He was a really nice person, we were instantly good friends. He had a long term gf but an ESE later told me that he had a crush on me and liked me more than his gf but didn’t think I’d like him. Perhaps it was just a convo between them, ‘thinking out loud’…but it’s something I can picture an SEI doing…having crazy thoughts about leaving their life partner…and then changing their mind completely the next day.

    I also knew an SEI and EII who were together for 4 years during uni. I remember when they broke up she told me he told her ‘I never loved you’. At the time I thought maybe he didn’t, now I just think oh typical of an SEI to say. I honestly think they would change their opinion of their idea or what love is day to day, month to month, year to year. All
    this said, they are my fave type (I still think the SEI who hurt me is a lovely person..I think) and I wouldn’t be surprised if I end up in a relationship with one at some point. I dislike the line in socionics literature that says lookalikes don’t value each other highly. I think the highs of lookalike interaction with SEIs are probably worth the lows. But I’d like to date a semi-dual too.

    what is it about SEIs lol

    fortunately I haven’t had any issues with ESE males, I don’t seem to come across them much..

    edit: I would like to add that I have a female SEI friend who is not like any of the above at all. When she talks about her love for her partner it is with a deep reverence. She is more the type to be messed about rather than doing the messing about.
    Last edited by Bethany; 04-17-2022 at 12:29 PM.

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    Have you seen the movie “50 First Dates”?

    If so, then you know what it’s like to date an ESI.

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    A bunch of people met up after the meeting at a restaurant, and we sat around a big table, eating, talking, and getting to know each other.
    Amidst the din, I could hear the ESI talking to her companion:
    ESI: Of all the people here, I like him the best.
    Companion: Bzzz bzzz bzzz. Bzzzzz.
    ESI: He’s not wearing a ring.
    Companion: Bzzz bzzzz.
    ESI: I wouldn’t have to work hard.


    Now I know what it’s like to have big tits.

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    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Actually an SLE told me to ‘have more fun with it’..
    You should just do you, regardless of what someone tells you to do, because only friends and family members are close enough to you to trust their advice.
    When applying this directly, it would mean that you should take my advice to not trust advice with a grain of salt, so if you abide by it, you would have to ignore my advice to follow it, and if you ignore my advice you should then take advice from strangers, which would mean that you would follow my advice... And the cycle continues. ERROR: The primary data loop has exceeded the maximum number of iterations. SHUTting down... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR4H76SCCzY

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    @Armitage Haha I don’t think I’ll be rushing to talk to that particular SLE again. I honestly don’t feel good after dates with random SLEs who I don’t fancy. I get a sort of unclean feeling. However, it is important to me be in a good mood, and an SLE telling me to be more positive does seem to uplift me somehow. I am actually feeling in a much better mood these days. I had some disappointment about a date that never happened recently, but I ate some ice cream and didn’t get too down about it. And I am free from the SEI boy and it’s spring time and I feel confident in my socionics knowledge rather than entrapped by it, I feel open-minded. But I do hope one of two people I’m talking to end up liking me..
    Last edited by Bethany; 04-16-2022 at 12:38 PM.

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    @Armitage @Adam Strange ESIs are rather strange creatures to me, I’ve been thinking about them recently. What I like about them, and other IJs is that when they talk to you they do seem to focus all their attention on you. I’m enjoying talking to ESIs atm, about work politics and also, men. They are ESI-se colleagues of mine. It did take a while to warm to each other, at first I would have a feeling of ‘I don’t know how to start a convo with you’, now I don’t worry so much and just wait til it’s the right moment.

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    sorry if I should put this in a new thread..do you guys ever tell your dates about socionics? I told an SLE about it recently, he lives super far from me so there wasn't much of a chance of anything happening but it kind of just came up in convo. He seemed quite interested in it but kept saying he hadn't had time to read about it. Another guy who I think is SLE kinda pissed me off last week. He seemed super keen at first and then disappeared. We live like half a mile from each other so I really wanted to go on a date with him lol. I get this crazy urge to just tell him about socionics. I probably won't, at least not for ages. He looks a bit intimidating so it could truly backfire on me lol. I've had quite enough of SLE misbehaviour... Maybe his sixth sense is better than mine and he just knows we don't suit..

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    ESI coworker stuck in a codependent relationship with a cheating SEE and 6 kids between them and struggling
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    sorry if I should put this in a new thread..do you guys ever tell your dates about socionics? I told an SLE about it recently, he lives super far from me so there wasn't much of a chance of anything happening but it kind of just came up in convo. He seemed quite interested in it but kept saying he hadn't had time to read about it. Another guy who I think is SLE kinda pissed me off last week. He seemed super keen at first and then disappeared. We live like half a mile from each other so I really wanted to go on a date with him lol. I get this crazy urge to just tell him about socionics. I probably won't, at least not for ages. He looks a bit intimidating so it could truly backfire on me lol. I've had quite enough of SLE misbehaviour... Maybe his sixth sense is better than mine and he just knows we don't suit..
    I told my LSI GF about Socionics around the fifth date or so. Because Socionics said that she and I were not “Duals”, she hated it and persistently tried to debunk it.

    I told an IEI about it and she didn’t believe me but was diplomatic about it.

    I told an ESI-Se about Socionics and she told me she hated the whole idea about it because she doesn’t think people can be put into boxes.

    I told an ESI-Fi about it, and she didn’t hear a word I said, because she has her own way of categorizing people. She has her Fi, which is the moon and the stars.

    All in all, trying to ripen a field before that field has any reason to ripen is a losing game.

    So now, I tend only to use Socionics to my own advantage, and I let other people manage as best they can.

    One of the most resonant phrases that I’ve ever heard is “I could help these people, but I don’t want to.”
    I laughed out loud when I heard that, because it openly states what I usually feel.
    But in regards to sharing the knowledge of Socionics, I can say “I tried to help these people but they didn’t want help.”

    C’est la vie.

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