Types of Love

[roger557]

-Fe (alpha): This love is in essence, accepting somebody for who they are, while at the same time trying to uplift the person so that they become a better version of themselves. This can be interpreted by -Fi/+Fe types as manipulative, and that they are not really loved for who they are. It is not exempt from drama, and even insults.

-Fi (gamma): This type of love is the epitome of what is usually called "unconditional love". In greek the term is referred to as "Agape love". It simply means a reciprocity where you love, and are loved back, not judging the person. Unless you purposely do something to hurt the reciprocity, this love doesn't end.

+Fi (delta): This love can be referred to as "boundless love". It is empathy and psychological understanding towards all, but especially the object of your affection. It is conditional though, as this is also the element that 'tracks' transgression against what is right/good, and past certain point the holder may stop loving the other person.

+Fe (beta): This is romantic love, or 'Eros love'. What is commonly referred to as an 'emotional rollercoaster'. Unless it is backed up by some of the other types of love, it usually doesn't last unless it is rekindled.

They all can have varying strengths; you might love someone less or more according to these parameters.

IMHO, the most "fun" (and the most missed) is +Fe type of love.

These are in the order that I experienced them with my 4 'girlfriends'. Soon coming descriptions for the other elements (while I ruminate them a bit).

[roger557]

-Fe (alpha): This love is in essence, accepting somebody for who they are, while at the same time trying to uplift the person so that they become a better version of themselves. This can be interpreted by -Fi/+Fe types as manipulative, and that they are not really loved for who they are. It is not exempt from drama, and even insults. It seems SO based.

-Fi (gamma): This type of love is the epitome of what is usually called "unconditional love". In greek the term is referred to as "Agape love". It simply means a reciprocity where you love, and are loved back, not judging the person. Unless you purposely do something to hurt the reciprocity, this love doesn't end. It seems SX based.

+Fi (delta): This love can be referred to as "boundless love". It is empathy and psychological understanding towards all, but especially the object of your affection. It is conditional though, as this is also the element that 'tracks' transgression against what is right/good, and past certain point the holder may stop loving the other person. It seems SP based.

+Fe (beta): This is romantic love, or 'Eros love'. What is commonly referred to as an 'emotional rollercoaster'. Unless it is backed up by some of the other types of love, it usually doesn't last unless it is rekindled. It is SX based.

They all can have varying strengths; you might love someone less or more according to these parameters.

IMHO, the most "fun" (and the most missed) is +Fe type of love.

These are in the order that I experienced them with my 4 'girlfriends'. Soon coming descriptions for the other elements (while I ruminate them a bit).

Part 2; miscellaneous non-ethics elements:

+Ne (alpha): This the the equivalent of Phileo greek love. It can be defined as a sense of kinship and shared mutual interests. Sort of viking or pirate camaraderie. SO based.

-Ni (gamma): This is "fated love" or soul love. It can be described as an awareness or heavenly mandate that you are supposed to be with this person. It unites the three instincts.

+Si (alpha): Greek's "Storge love". Family. Motherly love, "my people". In it is most extreme expression, it leads to clannish behavior. It is also what enters the picture when people refer to their husband/wife in a way like they "cover your necessities", like they satisfy your physical needs. Thus it sounds very SP based.

-Si (delta): Fatherly love. In it's most extreme expresion it ressembles Michael Corleone. "Don't touch my people". It also has to do with covering any possible needs that might arise, in more of a male way. Thus, it is also SP based.

These other loves can combine with the forementioned and each other. Ideally, the more types of love present in a relationship, the better, although some combinations might not seem fully compatible.

[InterPrizeWes]

Love gestures a flock of chasing shores to nexus primed psychological emanations to make Love surf the cluster of goliath endings to the beautiful drama of storytelling and adventuring

[Dazu]

-Fe (alpha): This love is in essence, accepting somebody for who they are, while at the same time trying to uplift the person so that they become a better version of themselves. This can be interpreted by -Fi/+Fe types as manipulative, and that they are not really loved for who they are. It is not exempt from drama, and even insults.

I actually agree with this, at least how it applies personally. I do see love as devotional, and I will to be devotional, but the bulk of my self esteem is more dependent on what you described. As much of a dick I am, I really hate looking down on others, thus, I see love as seeing someone as not only my equal, but a piece of art. I wish to add to this art, be someone's conductor. If I fail to realize how to do this in a relationship or my care is rejected, I begin to see the relationship as a bit or completely frivilous and my self esteem drops.

+Si (alpha): Greek's "Storge love". Family. Motherly love, "my people". In it is most extreme expression, it leads to clannish behavior. It is also what enters the picture when people refer to their husband/wife in a way like they "cover your necessities", like they satisfy your physical needs. Thus it sounds very SP based.

I also agree with this. Aside from seeing a potential partner hailing from a similar clan (be it literal like an ethnicity or spiritually), in a relationship even if I were to be selfish, I know that it's also a mutual exchange of material support. To love each other by the flesh, have access to each other's bodies - I see this as vital. How do I know when I'm driven by lust or infatuation? How I fantasize. When posessed by lust, it's just herp derp peepee go boom! When infatuated, I see myself massaging them, giving them passionate and gentle kisses everywhere. When caressing them all over, I'd find places that will make them beg for more, and making routines circle around found and preferred erogenous zones.

That said, in a way, I do see my partner as an "SP resource". I've been known to be vicious when someone tries to steal my food. I'd go full psycho if someone were to try to take my partner. I do not tolerate infidelity or covetousness. I see them as the ultimate evil. A wicked heart justifies these.

[Metaphor]

Oh, this is very interesting indeed.
I probably wonder why but the - and + signs of functions, I might correlate those with the world-rejecting and world-accepting better.

[Dazu]

I think the signs are from.... Bukalov? Gulenko has his own signs. Really, I don't really like them even though they are supposedly necessary for understanding the cognitive styles. Although a lot of Socionics is about adding layers of the same thing to unearth new meanings, signs do this is in a way that doesn't even make sense, imo. They seem to contradict the meanings of the IEs a lot of the time.

Nonetheless, Roger is onto something interesting, however I don't see why it couldn't be explained by simply saying "Alpha ".

[Tallmo]

I'll try also.

I'd like to limit it more to the actual function.

Si - monitoring inner physiological phenomena: butterflies in the stomach, erotic feelings, the blood rushing in the veins, or sense of calmness and contentment when together etc.

Se - Love is what we do and experience together. Beautiful partner, sex, fast cars, money, travel, "the bigger the better".

Fe - I love you, because you are the most suitable partner. Right background, same friends, right age, right style & looks etc.

Fi - I love you, because we are in a relationship. Disregarding the natural feelings, and also disregarding the partner.

Ti - I love you, because it makes sense.

Te - I took you to dinner, I proposed to you, I bought you a ring, we got married, went on a honeymoon, bought a house. So I love you.

Ne - I love you because I see potential

Ni - This is probably the hardest to understand. "I just knew", It was written in the stars, you are my destiny.

[roger557]

Yeah, the signs are Bukalov's/Hitta model B signs.

[Dazu]

Se - Love is what we do and experience together. Beautiful partner, sex, fast cars, money, travel, "the bigger the better".

Te - I took you to dinner, I proposed to you, I bought you a ring, we got married, went on a honeymoon, bought a house. So I love you.

While I understand all these, this just exemplifies how I find Gamma and somewhat Beta romance cringe, also shallow. While I can't agree with everything my adolescent self said, but even then I found the whole "we have to buy a ring and get a legal contract" thing stupid. As far as I'm concerned, if we love each other and we plan on raising children, we're married. No need for a legal contract to financially fuck us over / "test" our love in the long term and buy a glorifed finger string that says "dont put peepee in other girls, bro". This stuff to me seems like more Decisive "let's create problems to test our willpower in the future" hogwash.

However despite everything I said, seeing my wife in a bridal dress.... I'd love to blast the most intense load in her while she's wearing that. God.... DAMN!!!! Rings are still stupid though. I remember a long time ago as a kid, my step-dad bought a ring for my mom. She was on the phone one time and I wanted to be a Sonic character so I chewed off the diamond from her ring... Yeah, I was grounded from playing that game.

[roger557]

Okay, Part 3: Logic Elements

These ones I find the hardest to define.

-Te (gamma): This is possesion of a loved one, but not as an object, rather as a a person. You might be thinking, how can someone "possess" another person without any objectification going on? Well, with respect to living beings, that is, knowing they are living, breathing beings with inalienable rights.

+Ti (beta): This is similar to instructing or controlling a person via communicating them what they have to do, but in contrast to gamma -Te, some objectification goes on. It's like being the boss over someone.

-Ti (alpha): This is programming, similar to +Ti instructing. Also somewhat objectifying.

+Te (delta): This is managing someone , also might have to do with material possesions or money (some people might expect to be "managed" or being supplied resources). Also marrying, which a sort of a "contract", has to do with this.

[roger557]

Fi - I love you, because we are in a relationship. Disregarding the natural feelings, and also disregarding the partner.

What makes you define Fi love in this very negative way?

[roger557]

And lastly:

-Se (beta): This is sort of having someone (I hope I can word this right without it sounding too harsh) that you can control, like their body or something. I think this might have to do with alpha +Si as well, which I forgot to mention is sort of offering up your body to another person. Also like leading the relationship with your ego, like what do to, what's fun, activity, enjoyment, etc. It also has to do with "working" and being a provider.

+Se (gamma): This is having access to someone. By default, gammas are sort of guarded, as if they had an invisible force field around them that doesn't let anyone truly get near. Like an armor that you have to break down. Gammas when dualizing "break their armors", often in a very skillful way. Also has to do with providing a home, sort of a castle, to share with your partner.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

hmm I agree with this a lot and I think it's good. Yeah I like Alphas but they have made me feel that way before... there are definitely things about me that were very annoying/difficult for them to accept that I think were petty issues and couldn't understand or relate why they got so frustrated at times. ((like at least Delta will often hate me for the things they 'should' hate me for or something...))

Thank you for saying something nice or neutral about Beta other than 'eww you have Beta AIDS.' <3

I would say beta is the pure romance quadra... often it can result in the people idealizing each other but not really doing much together in real life for fear it would ruin the idealizations. But even in real life I have this chemistry with SLEs... and if I 'fall in love' with somebody I do admit I want them to make my heart beat like an exciting Fe pop song or something. The Fi sorrow is a kind of more deeper, religious 'love' but I don't relate to it that much- it might sound 'backwards' but stroking my stupid teenage fantasies is sort of like the same thing as deep spirituality for me lol. When "spirituality" gets uppity, patronizing, and overly serious I quickly zone out.

idk what you said about delta might need some fine tweaking as a lot of it seemed like 4D Fi stuff in general. I won't get as morally disgusted as a Delta probably or hold it against them in some external punishing way but if somebody does something that bothers my inner Fi I won't like them much either I don't think.

[roger557]

Thank you for saying something nice or neutral about Beta other than 'eww you have Beta AIDS.' <3

You seem to have been offended by some things I've said, which wasn't my intention. The only things I have said are: 1) that there's hierarchy of the quadras, and beta gets the fourth position in the hierarchy. 2) that merry types establish a symbiotic relationship with pathogens and harbor them in their body. That's all. Things (I believe) I have discovered.

Beta +Fe love is certainly the most interesting to an sx first person.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

You seem to have been offended by some things I've said, which wasn't my intention.

Not offended, more like I view it as funny/misguided. I was going to write a parody fan fiction of people overly santisizing areas when a Beta is around lol. If I was offended I wouldn't reply to you. IEIs are pussies- if I'm bothered by something I just stay away. The very fact that I respond to your posts means I'm not offended.

[roger557]

Not offended, more like I view it as funny/misguided. I was going to write a parody fan fiction of people overly santisizing areas when a Beta is around lol. If I was offended I wouldn't reply to you. IEIs are pussies- if I'm bothered by something I just stay away. The very fact that I respond to your posts means I'm not offended.

I personally don't have much against IEI's and consider them the most civilized out of beta types. Probably I should be more careful about what I say about betas, or an SLE or EIE might kill me

[rose]

I'll try also.

I'd like to limit it more to the actual function.

Si - monitoring inner physiological phenomena: butterflies in the stomach, erotic feelings, the blood rushing in the veins, or sense of calmness and contentment when together etc.

Se - Love is what we do and experience together. Beautiful partner, sex, fast cars, money, travel, "the bigger the better".

Fe - I love you, because you are the most suitable partner. Right background, same friends, right age, right style & looks etc.

Fi - I love you, because we are in a relationship. Disregarding the natural feelings, and also disregarding the partner.

Ti - I love you, because it makes sense.

Te - I took you to dinner, I proposed to you, I bought you a ring, we got married, went on a honeymoon, bought a house. So I love you.

Ne - I love you because I see potential

Ni - This is probably the hardest to understand. "I just knew", It was written in the stars, you are my destiny.

What Ni is is none of the other.
It's not an action, not a emotion, not a sensation, not logical.
If there's something happening between two people, it will happen regardless of words, class, titles, actions, astrology. Name it, it doesn't matter.
It's as if witnessing flowers bloom.

It might be hard to understand for others, yet it's the only one that makes any sense to me. Too bad it doesn't make sense, lol.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I personally don't have much against IEI's and consider them the most civilized out of beta types.

Because IEI is the 'fixer' of Beta quadra and its often our job to be the healer/cleaner upper of some of the truly bad things Beta does. and to shine light on other people that what other betas do might not be as 'evil' as they think. ((and well of course I admit some individual betas are irredemable and beyond help but I could say that about a lot of people...)) SLI plays this role for Delta I've noticed, they 'ground deltas' and are often just mechanical and good at real world stuff to ground their harsh astrigent morality that in real life can't ever truly be a thing usually.

yeah I can be a civilized goody two shoes and donate soup cans with delta but I think totally denying or repressing the animal side is blah.

[roger557]

Ah, I forgot -Ni and -Ne:

-Ni (beta): This is described as "choosing", which is perhaps what true love really is. It is picking something from a group, for any reason. "I choose you".

-Ne (delta): This is somewhat like determining that someone is pure or has all the required potential you need from them. Sounds a bit interested, sort of like determining the essence of a person and noticing it fits your requirement. At least it is the essence of the person and not something material or their appeareance.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Fe is love, everything else is a fabrication.

[ouronis]

Seems accurate, although I don't think you have the full story on beta Fe.

[AWellArmedCat]

SLI plays this role for Delta I've noticed, they 'ground deltas' and are often just mechanical and good at real world stuff to ground their harsh astrigent morality that in real life can't ever truly be a thing usually.

This makes sense given that I get along so extremely well with my SLI aunt that I've thought before she MUST be ILI, but she absolutely isn't. No matter how hard I look there is no Ni to be found. She's also the only person in real life I know who knows as much about personality typologies as I do, and she agrees that she is definitely Si. Not that I should really need the confirmation. Her Si is so incredibly obvious in everything she does

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

This makes sense given that I get along so extremely well with my SLI aunt that I've thought before she MUST be ILI, but she absolutely isn't. No matter how hard I look there is no Ni to be found. She's also the only person in real life I know who knows as much about personality typologies as I do, and she agrees that she is definitely Si. Not that I should really need the confirmation. Her Si is so incredibly obvious in everything she does

yes I see that is how IEE/SLI duality works, IEE will be giddy and overly idealistic about some gay humanitarian thing and SLI just sorta makes it happen in reality reminding them its gonna take a lot of hard work and logic + self-sacrifice to make those moralistic dreams happen- it like really gets in the nitty gritty for Delta and shows those other Delta Morality types how things need to be improved upon by efficiency, hard work, staying connected in the real world doing things- not always uselessly socializing with people all day etc. As that can cause somebody to get lost in this cycle of Fe drama that goes nowhere.

okay wow I also feel bad for SLIs cuz I can also see how that can be very depressed thing for them even though they are good at it - and I think they are the reason a lot of the real world runs so smoothly as they are both at the end of delta line and the very end of the socionic line completely haha. The SLI I know really likes balancing himself with religious practice- to say dutiful like that, so they are strong inside enough to stay connected to the dreary world so much. This is also why some of the IEE's lightheartedness helps 'fix them' as well probably.

I guess you could say - IEI/SLE duality is similiar but I don't think so because I just don't really care about morality like Deltas do lolol and obviously neither do my duals. Not that I want the world to be burned and to anarchy to reign supreme or anything - I'm probably much too goody goody for that, but the emphasies is just a bit different I think.

[roger557]

Seems accurate, although I don't think you have the full story on beta Fe.

What's missing you think?

[ouronis]

What's missing you think?

You seem to have a deeper understanding of the dynamics of the other ones. It would be interesting to talk about what happens in this type of love.

Besides that, there is a sense that it's not *just* romantic love, but I can't put my finger on what else it would be.

It seems like you are using the general second-order dynamics of each quadra to pull out a "love" type, but I think the dynamics of beta are not as straightforward as just intense passionate reckless love. What is the counterbalance to this, for example?

[roger557]

You seem to have a deeper understanding of the dynamics of the other ones. It would be interesting to talk about what happens in this type of love.

Besides that, there is a sense that it's not *just* romantic love, but I can't put my finger on what else it would be.

It seems like you are using the general second-order dynamics of each quadra to pull out a "love" type, but I think the dynamics of beta are not as straightforward as just intense passionate reckless love. What is the counterbalance to this, for example?

The "style" of love of each quadra is probably a combination of the type of love of their valued elements. Beta's ethics is +Fe, but they also have -Ni love, -Se love, and +Ti love.

[ouronis]

The "style" of love of each quadra is probably a combination of the type of love of their valued elements. Beta's ethics is +Fe, but they also have -Ni love, -Se love, and +Ti love.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I'm not sure.

[roger557]

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I'm not sure.

I also think there's something missing about +Fe. A sort of ass kissing or flattery or something. -Fe also, it might have missing an element of friendliness in the description. Note that these both, can be genuine or faked. I find it amusing how Fe types like to throw dirt at the Fi element, when Fe is an element much more prone for fakeness. There is an implicit sense in Fi, that it prevents from being fooled (like from fake relations or fake love from someone).

[ouronis]

I also think there's something missing about +Fe. A sort of ass kissing or flattery or something. -Fe also, it might have missing an element of friendliness in the description. Note that these both, can be genuine or faked. I find it amusing how Fe types like to throw dirt at the Fi element, when Fe is an element much more prone for fakeness. There is an implicit sense in Fi, that it prevents from being fooled (like from fake relations or fake love from someone).

Lately the only reason I've had cause to dislike Fi is due to the stubborn individuals it creates

[Bethanyclaire]

Fe>more pure and earnest than fi