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Thread: Types You Hate That Aren't Your Conflictor.

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    Angry Types You Hate That Aren't Your Conflictor.

    Types you hate dealing with that aren't your conflictor.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    IEE

    I've worked with them, it doesn't go well. Lots of misunderstandings.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    EIE ironically

    We get it, you want attention, well I want attention too, so where do we go from here?
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    I think 95% of my complaints towards people were fueled by Ejs, my conflictor happens to be one of them, oop.

    I just can't seem to find compassion towards the unhealthy ones acting up and they are the ones I end up enraged about.


    Or maybe it's just mommy(LSE) issues.

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    Hate is too strong a word. I have had extreme difficulty working or seeing eye-to-eye with ILE. It's been a challenge working with IEI, ILI and SLE in that order - but not impossible. SEEs seemed to bob and weave a lot but we could usually come to an agreement.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Yeah maybe hate was too strong, but I had to make a title that popped lol. I actually don't have too much of a conflict with most types and I don't really even come into many conflicts with SLI and ILIs.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    It's my ESI sister's LSI husband that I can't get along with at all. If they're both in the same room, I hardly speak. Shenanigans.

    I don't think this is all LSIs though, just him.
    Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."

    -Carl Jung



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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    It's my ESI sister's LSI husband that I can't get along with at all. If they're both in the same room, I hardly speak. Shenanigans.

    I don't think this is all LSIs though, just him.

    Lol I can see how an LSI can be annoying. You're sister is ESI? How has having a sibling who is your conflictor affected how you interact with Fi types?
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    I WANT TO PREFACE THIS: DELTAS ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE AND THE ONES ON HERE ARE SPLENDID!

    I can seriously struggle with Delta NF’s and Delta ST women in life. Like it’s either the best thing ever or it all goes to shit in a fiery hell. It’s not that we don’t get along. Heck no. It’s just I tend to get the most whiplash from them. Delta NF women I cant rely on and that Fi whiplash is hard. It’s not consistent for me enough and I feel like I have to always be on their schedule. Delta NF men (the ones that are attracted to me) tend to really rub me the wrong way. I often feel patronized by them cause they always try to help me out with Si stuff and then mix is that Fi whiplash…yeah you get an annoyed duck real quick.
    I get along with Delta men fine, I have the least issues with them. Delta women it just doesn’t work when we get to close. I feel trapped by their Te and Fi and I really don’t prescribe to their world view. Plus, it makes me upset when they get mad at my Fe expression.

    I have had some great relations with Delta’s. I also have had the worst and most frequent struggles with delta. I get along with them better the gammas usually, but working with them and sometimes closeness is not a good idea for me. Makes me question if I am Beta but, it just comes down to me not valuing Fi/Te like they do.

    Edit: I don’t hate any type. I’ve just noticed I tend have more issues with certain ones more then others.



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    ILE's are the scum of the Earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I WANT TO PREFACE THIS: DELTAS ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE AND THE ONES ON HERE ARE SPLENDID!

    I can seriously struggle with Delta NF’s and Delta ST women in life. Like it’s either the best thing ever or it all goes to shit in a fiery hell. It’s not that we don’t get along. Heck no. It’s just I tend to get the most whiplash from them. Delta NF women I cant rely on and that Fi whiplash is hard. It’s not consistent for me enough and I feel like I have to always be on their schedule. Delta NF men (the ones that are attracted to me) tend to really rub me the wrong way. I often feel patronized by them cause they always try to help me out with Si stuff and then mix is that Fi whiplash…yeah you get an annoyed duck real quick.
    I get along with Delta men fine, I have the least issues with them. Delta women it just doesn’t work when we get to close. I feel trapped by their Te and Fi and I really don’t prescribe to their world view. Plus, it makes me upset when they get mad at my Fe expression.

    I have had some great relations with Delta’s. I also have had the worst and most frequent struggles with delta. I get along with them better the gammas usually, but working with them and sometimes closeness is not a good idea for me. Makes me question if I am Beta but, it just comes down to me not valuing Fi/Te like they do.

    Edit: I don’t hate any type. I’ve just noticed I tend have more issues with certain ones more then others.

    LMFAOO the I burst out laughing right when I read the disclaimer .

    What is Fi whiplash? Because I think we might be annoyed by the same thing.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    Lol I can see how an LSI can be annoying. You're sister is ESI? How has having a sibling who is your conflictor affected how you interact with Fi types?
    I do okay with most Fi types or I know how to get along with them anyway. I avoid certain topics or I start changing the subject. When I was younger, I was pretty argumentative, but as I matured, I mellowed out.

    I've become somewhat hand-shy around my ESI sister and her LSI husband. If I talk, I can irritate them. They're like a small Ne hating gang. They get loud when they don't agree with me, and I don't debate with people if they yell at me. I haven't experienced this with other LSI or ESI. Maybe I'm not around them enough to become irritating? I had one ESI boss I couldn't get along with, but I think she was deranged.

    I guess you could say because of my ESI sister I remain more neutral around Fi types. Seems to work.
    Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."

    -Carl Jung



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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    Types you hate dealing with that aren't your conflictor.
    ive had an LSE manager that was notorious for being difficult and super anal about rules/cleaning and pretty much everything. Sometimes just to annoy you aswel.
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    I've become somewhat hand-shy around my ESI sister and her LSI husband. If I talk, I can irritate them. They're like a small Ne hating gang. They get loud when they don't agree with me, and I don't debate with people if they yell at me.
    This guy yells at you? What does your sister do when this is happening?
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    LMFAOO the I burst out laughing right when I read the disclaimer .

    What is Fi whiplash? Because I think we might be annoyed by the same thing.
    Fi whiplash: They can be really mean to you over something that personally offends them. Then the other minute expect you to be the best of friends. Your not allowed to leave them but they can leave you and come back when they want. Oh and sometimes they can remember the sweetest things but you don’t know when or why. Then other times you realize it was of manipulation to why they remember it to keep that bond there.

    Disclaimer: Fi types are great most of the time. Most of my friends have been Fi users. Just it is hard as a Fe users sometimes and I really don’t understand it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    This guy yells at you? What does your sister do when this is happening?
    They both get loud with me. It's hard to get any kind of shift in perspective from them. They don't agree, and apparently the volume in their voice wins the topic at hand.
    Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."

    -Carl Jung



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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Fi whiplash: They can be really mean to you over something that personally offends them. Then the other minute expect you to be the best of friends. Your not allowed to leave them but they can leave you and come back when they want. Oh and sometimes they can remember the sweetest things but you don’t know when or why. Then other times you realize it was of manipulation to why they remember it to keep that bond there.

    Disclaimer: Fi types are great most of the time. Most of my friends have been Fi users. Just it is hard as a Fe users sometimes and I really don’t understand it.

    Ok YES, this is what I'm talking about. We will all be joking, everything will be fine, then all of the sudden they are going off on me for something I said. I treat it as a joke, thinking they couldn't be actually serious, and they get even more livid.

    And the Si thing you said earlier with IEEs. Male IEEs hit my Si polr way more often than SEIs and SLIs. There was a guy that thought he was some style guru and would criticize almost every outfit I had. He dressed like a he shopped at the thrift store btw.

    Some of the manipulation and coming in and out of peoples lives stuff I will stay silent on because I do that lol.

    But if there is a big group of people and some Fi types are there, the flow will inevitably come to a screeching halt because we have to clarify something that was said because someone took it way too personally and the whole vibe gets weird and has to recover.

    I love delta NFs they are usually really nice, cool, chill people. But there have been issues lol.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    They both get loud with me. It's hard to get any kind of shift in perspective from them. They don't agree, and apparently the volume in their voice wins the topic at hand.

    I don't think they should be yelling and screaming at you if they disagree, especially since this is your family. But that's just my opinion. Like you, I know both of these types well, they really do not like Ne lol, but that's really not an excuse.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    ive had an LSE manager that was notorious for being difficult and super anal about rules/cleaning and pretty much everything. Sometimes just to annoy you as wel.
    Lol we all know THAT LSE manager. I had one telling me that forgetting to turn off the lights when leaving the office is a personal offense to them. It meant I lacked respect for them.

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    With respect to the entire type, I don't *hate* any.

    I have felt strong antipathies toward ESIs more frequently than any other type (including my conflictors, SLEs).
    IEEs drive me crazy and some people have thought I hated the IEEs in my life, but in actuality it's not a personal grudge; I just find many of them mentally draining.
    I don't know if I've ever really hated an LSI, but my feelings toward them are usually on a pendulum that ranges from awe/warmth to bitter resentment. I can also say the same of some duals...

    I notice Holographic-Panoramic cognition (of the ESI-SLE-LII-IEE supervision ring) and I don't get along in general.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 08-31-2021 at 12:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Fi whiplash: They can be really mean to you over something that personally offends them. Then the other minute expect you to be the best of friends. Your not allowed to leave them but they can leave you and come back when they want. Oh and sometimes they can remember the sweetest things but you don’t know when or why. Then other times you realize it was of manipulation to why they remember it to keep that bond there.
    I've been guilty of this haha. Thing is, Fi an introverted and thus individual function, so that what offends one Fi valuer might not offend another. There is no way to know.
    Same way there are some Ti valuers that think quantum physics explains reality and others that Elon Musk is at the heart of a deep state conspiration that aims to use rockets to turn the Moon into a death star like weapon to turn all humans into slaves(real example, a IEI told me this, and he wasn't joking). It's like if you just say what you think in a Te way, there's always a chance of a Ti valuer wanting to lecture you about their weird worldview disconnected from facts.

    Maybe the best thing is just to hang out with people who have the same convictions as you, whether about Fi or Ti? If they get too offended or disagree all the time, maybe it's best to just take some distance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Disclaimer: Fi types are great most of the time. Most of my friends have been Fi users. Just it is hard as a Fe users sometimes and I really don’t understand it.
    You must be very afraid of hurting some Fi types in here. It makes sense that your duals are like the complete opposite "I don't care if you're offended, that's your problem"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    You must be very afraid of hurting some Fi types in here. It makes sense that your duals are like the complete opposite "I don't care if you're offended, that's your problem"
    I have a lot of Fi friends that I do adore and the Fi valuers/friends here are very sweet. I have my own opions about it but, just because I don't understand or value it doesn't mean I should be a dick about it lol. The SEI mediator values her good relations despite being an Alpha Tyrant I am a bit sensitive in that regard.

    ILE men tend to be more like that then the ILE women. Someone has to smooth over relations so we can live somewhat comfortably lol



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    People I disliked had those types : LSE, SLI, LSI, LIE, ESI, SLE, IEI, ILE, LII, SEE, and some annoying IEEs or megalomaniac EIEs. I don't think type was the reason I disliked them, but it can be an aggravating factor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    With respect to the entire type, I don't *hate* any.

    I have felt strong antipathies towards ESIs more frequently than any other type (including my conflictors, SLEs).
    IEEs drive me crazy and some people have thought I hated the IEEs in my life, but in actuality it's not a personal grudge; I just find many of them mentally draining.
    I don't know if I've ever really hated an LSI, but my feelings toward them are usually on a pendulum that ranges from awe/warmth to bitter resentment. I can also say the same of some duals...

    I notice Holographic-Panoramic cognition (of the ESI-SLE-LII-IEE supervision ring) and I don't get along in general.

    What kind of conflicts do you have with ESIs?
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    I'm going to pour some salt, so cover up your wounds...

    I funny enough do not hate LIEs that much. Can they be arrogant and cause the world's problems yet act like it's the "mindless sheeples'" fault instead of their PoLR block? Yes. They do, but when I hang out with them and we have a subject we both like, they're actually fun, insightful. The other Gammas though... I just can't.

    ESIs are like a bootleg version of an LSI. What happens is that you basically have a close-minded insufferable moralist... but with zero sense. All their reasoning can basically be just summarized as "my vagina". I once had a- I dunno what she was called, but a teacher's assistant in high school who I am sure is ESI. One could argue she was LSI, but I didn't see much structure or receptivity. But anyways, to exemplify their insanity once during high school I was looking for music on a computer and was able to re-earth a song I have been dying to listen to again. I shouted with excitement "I FINALLY FOUND IT! AHAH alright, time to pirate it." The teacher with a stone face, not even looking at me, just goes on a tirade saying that's illegal and she would call the authorities on me. Like, I get being principled, but are you really willing to lock up some kid or put him in eternal financial debt just because he wanted to pirate some obscure out-of-print Japanese remix of a song? So cool. ESIs are basically just aggressive NPCs to me.

    ILIs... The most pointless type ever. There's being an "umm actually" and then there's... them. They'll often get pissy when people are having fun and or being boisterous, wanting everyone to confirm to their rigid non-expression. And when they do hog the limelight that's only being amassed because because they want to "correct" you, they don't even provide a solution or constructive response. It's like, if you're gonna get pissy about me being boisterous or being incorrect at least ACTUALLY try to correct me. But no, they literally expect you to be silent, wade through their paragraphs of text DEBOOONKING YOU just to get "idk lmao ur just dumb". At least LIEs actually do something with their relativism. Seriously, they just say a bunch of depressing shit that ruins my mood. "oh so you're against truth? that must mean you're stupid!" no, you're just annoying. Simple as.

    SEEs.... I dunno. They can just be snakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    What kind of conflicts do you have with ESIs?
    they often appear self-serving to me in how restrictive their brand of Fi is. Likely because of Fe ignoring + Ne PoLR they can have grand oversights or simple disregard for how their actions have the potential to negatively impact others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    I'm going to pour some salt, so cover up your wounds...

    I funny enough do not hate LIEs that much. Can they be arrogant and cause the world's problems yet act like it's the "mindless sheeples'" fault instead of their PoLR block? Yes. They do, but when I hang out with them and we have a subject we both like, they're actually fun, insightful. The other Gammas though... I just can't.

    ESIs are like a bootleg version of an LSI. What happens is that you basically have a close-minded insufferable moralist... but with zero sense. All their reasoning can basically be just summarized as "my vagina". I once had a- I dunno what she was called, but a teacher's assistant in high school who I am sure is ESI. One could argue she was LSI, but I didn't see much structure or receptivity. But anyways, to exemplify their insanity once during high school I was looking for music on a computer and was able to re-earth a song I have been dying to listen to again. I shouted with excitement "I FINALLY FOUND IT! AHAH alright, time to pirate it." The teacher with a stone face, not even looking at me, just goes on a tirade saying that's illegal and she would call the authorities on me. Like, I get being principled, but are you really willing to lock up some kid or put him in eternal financial debt just because he wanted to pirate some obscure out-of-print Japanese remix of a song? So cool. ESIs are basically just aggressive NPCs to me.

    ILIs... The most pointless type ever. There's being an "umm actually" and then there's... them. They'll often get pissy when people are having fun and or being boisterous, wanting everyone to confirm to their rigid non-expression. And when they do hog the limelight that's only being amassed because because they want to "correct" you, they don't even provide a solution or constructive response. It's like, if you're gonna get pissy about me being boisterous or being incorrect at least ACTUALLY try to correct me. But no, they literally expect you to be silent, wade through their paragraphs of text DEBOOONKING YOU just to get "idk lmao ur just dumb". At least LIEs actually do something with their relativism. Seriously, they just say a bunch of depressing shit that ruins my mood. "oh so you're against truth? that must mean you're stupid!" no, you're just annoying. Simple as.

    SEEs.... I dunno. They can just be snakes.
    What you said about ILIs and moral relativism reminds me — I’ve known a number of ILIs who become occasionally angry about something called “postmodernism,” by which they seem to mean an idea that truth is relative. Yet these ILIs invariably have the most relativistic outlook you’ll ever hear. It’s amazing.

    I think a number of “postmodern” writers were/are ILI, and if not were another Ni ego. Something about playing with established forms and narratives seems to appeal to that kind of person. I have an idea that ILIs’ struggle against “postmodernism” is really just an expression of their self-hatred.

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    The Evening and the Morning Star Eudaimonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    What you said about ILIs and moral relativism reminds me — I’ve known a number of ILIs who become occasionally angry about something called “postmodernism,” by which they seem to mean an idea that truth is relative. Yet these ILIs invariably have the most relativistic outlook you’ll ever hear. It’s amazing.

    I think a number of “postmodern” writers were/are ILI, and if not were another Ni ego. Something about playing with established forms and narratives seems to appeal to that kind of person. I have an idea that ILIs’ struggle against “postmodernism” is really just an expression of their self-hatred.

    I have noticed this, I think it could be the whole Dialectical-Algorithmic group.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    ESIs are like a bootleg version of an LSI. What happens is that you basically have a close-minded insufferable moralist... but with zero sense. All their reasoning can basically be just summarized as "my vagina". I once had a- I dunno what she was called, but a teacher's assistant in high school who I am sure is ESI. One could argue she was LSI, but I didn't see much structure or receptivity. But anyways, to exemplify their insanity once during high school I was looking for music on a computer and was able to re-earth a song I have been dying to listen to again. I shouted with excitement "I FINALLY FOUND IT! AHAH alright, time to pirate it." The teacher with a stone face, not even looking at me, just goes on a tirade saying that's illegal and she would call the authorities on me. Like, I get being principled, but are you really willing to lock up some kid or put him in eternal financial debt just because he wanted to pirate some obscure out-of-print Japanese remix of a song? So cool. ESIs are basically just aggressive NPCs to me.

    ILIs... The most pointless type ever. There's being an "umm actually" and then there's... them. They'll often get pissy when people are having fun and or being boisterous, wanting everyone to confirm to their rigid non-expression. And when they do hog the limelight that's only being amassed because because they want to "correct" you, they don't even provide a solution or constructive response. It's like, if you're gonna get pissy about me being boisterous or being incorrect at least ACTUALLY try to correct me. But no, they literally expect you to be silent, wade through their paragraphs of text DEBOOONKING YOU just to get "idk lmao ur just dumb". At least LIEs actually do something with their relativism. Seriously, they just say a bunch of depressing shit that ruins my mood. "oh so you're against truth? that must mean you're stupid!" no, you're just annoying. Simple as.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    I have noticed this, I think it could be the whole Dialectical-Algorithmic group.
    How so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Fi whiplash: They can be really mean to you over something that personally offends them. Then the other minute expect you to be the best of friends. Your not allowed to leave them but they can leave you and come back when they want. Oh and sometimes they can remember the sweetest things but you don’t know when or why. Then other times you realize it was of manipulation to why they remember it to keep that bond there.

    Disclaimer: Fi types are great most of the time. Most of my friends have been Fi users. Just it is hard as a Fe users sometimes and I really don’t understand it.
    Tbh, Fe types can do a similar thing. Fe and Fi are as nasty when they get this way. I guess we are less affected by one or the other depending which one we value. Don't mean to depreciate your experience, it's just that I can relate by switching Fi to Fe.
    I think it's impotant to mention it, tho it probably seems as coming out of nowhere in the middle of Fe types agreeing about Fi whiplash.
    And I'm honestly terrified of Fe backlash writting this. Probably over nothing, people are chill here, but I got hit badly in the past, like you described.

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    Let me see which types I like by process of elimination
    LII - No
    ESE - No
    SEI - Depends on the day and the SEI
    ILE - No

    EIE - Yes, but also no
    SLE - No
    LSI - No
    IEI - begrudgingly sometimes, but no

    ESI - No
    LIE - Depends on the LIE
    SEE - hell no
    ILI - eh, no

    IEE - No
    EII - No
    LSE - No
    SLI - eh, no

    Conclusion: I only like harmless people

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    Tbh, Fe types can do a similar thing. Fe and Fi are as nasty when they get this way. I guess we are less affected by one or the other depending which one we value. Don't mean to depreciate your experience, it's just that I can relate by switching Fi to Fe.
    I think it's impotant to mention it, tho it probably seems as coming out of nowhere in the middle of Fe types agreeing about Fi whiplash.
    And I'm honestly terrified of Fe backlash writting this. Probably over nothing, people are chill here, but I got hit badly in the past, like you described.
    Naw I get it. Don’t worry, I won’t go all Fe on you I think Fi types are able to avoid and maneuver their whiplash of their own type then the devalued type. While I do have 4D Fi and understand it pretty well, I still struggle with Fi feelers. Though, Fe values are still sometimes a mystery to me……I often forget how Fe can feel to Fi feelers. I hope you have some good Fi feelers around you more now and that you don’t have to deal with a lot of Fe whiplash going forward.



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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Naw I get it. Don’t worry, I won’t go all Fe on you I think Fi types are able to avoid and maneuver their whiplash of their own type then the devalued type. While I do have 4D Fi and understand it pretty well, I still struggle with Fi feelers. Though, Fe values are still sometimes a mystery to me……I often forget how Fe can feel to Fi feelers. I hope you have some good Fi feelers around you more now and that you don’t have to deal with a lot of Fe whiplash going forward.
    Chill and nice.
    More than escaping Fe backlash, I'd prefer to be able to breeze through it. Bullet dodging à la matrix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    How so?

    I mean postmodernism is a really vague definition. But, I think its because of the dynamic nature of their thinking, it has a particular ambiguous subjectivity to it.

    Gulenko talks about it in the descriptions.

    Historically, the first representative of a Dialectical worldview would be Heraclitus. Epitomizing the Dynamic dichotomy, he was of the opinion that "you cannot enter the same river twice" because whenever you enter again, the flow is already of different water.
    There is an emphasis on an individuals perception of events rather than events themselves. Someone's perception of events is more important to consider over what "actually happened" like a Casual-determinist may worry about. Instead of a static description of water, Heraclitus opts for a dynamic description of the river's flow as it exists in time.

    One more graphical illustration of Dialectical perception. What do you see in the picture: a vase against a black background, or two facial profiles on a white background? It depends on which one for you is the background, and which is the figure. Some see a vase and the profiles turn into a dark background, others see two black profiles and the white vase goes into the background. But once a person sees both images, fluctuations of attention begin. The picture seems to pulsate: you see a vase, then the profiles. There is a dialectical exchange of background/foreground. Triggering negative reverse perspective, where distant or darkened objects are perceived more significantly than those located closer to the observer.

    This emphasis on an individuals perception of experience can be considered too subjective and relativist for some. These are similar criticisms for what is considered "postmodern" thought.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    What you said about ILIs and moral relativism reminds me — I’ve known a number of ILIs who become occasionally angry about something called “postmodernism,” by which they seem to mean an idea that truth is relative. Yet these ILIs invariably have the most relativistic outlook you’ll ever hear. It’s amazing.

    I think a number of “postmodern” writers were/are ILI, and if not were another Ni ego. Something about playing with established forms and narratives seems to appeal to that kind of person. I have an idea that ILIs’ struggle against “postmodernism” is really just an expression of their self-hatred.
    I too have noticed this, that the vocal anti-post-modernists are ILI, or some kind of Decisive type. I find the Betas approach somewhat forgiveable. Because even if they are wrong, they have some actual foundation where they reason from. ILIs just spit nonsense for sake of it. They actually seem to pollute the ideational pool. I have not read his stuff nor do I plan to, but possibly is Max Stirner ILI? if so.... yeah.

    What you said about playing with the rules is perhaps an Irrational thing and even more likely, Decisive Irrational. It seems they are the ones who reject all structures, say life is meaningless, then say the truth is some "will to power" or "might is right", then get smoked by an ideology that disagrees with them. seems so adept at forecasting everything besides its own demise. It's stuff like this that reminds me being Judicious ain't all that bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    I too have noticed this, that the vocal anti-post-modernists are ILI, or some kind of Decisive type. I find the Betas approach somewhat forgiveable. Because even if they are wrong, they have some actual foundation where they reason from. ILIs just spit nonsense for sake of it. They actually seem to pollute the ideational pool. I have not read his stuff nor do I plan to, but possibly is Max Stirner ILI? if so.... yeah.

    What you said about playing with the rules is perhaps an Irrational thing and even more likely, Decisive Irrational. It seems they are the ones who reject all structures, say life is meaningless, then say the truth is some "will to power" or "might is right", then get smoked by an ideology that disagrees with them. seems so adept at forecasting everything besides its own demise. It's stuff like this that reminds me being Judicious ain't all that bad.
    ''life is meaningless'' sounds Ni devaluing since Ni sees meaning everywhere and even creates meaning for others. Max Stirner reminds me of LII
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

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    I don’t really hate any type in particular, even conflictor. But I have noticed SEE’s tend to be pretty difficult to deal with at times
    ·:*¨༺༻¨*:·.𝓽𝓾𝓶𝓫𝓵𝓻·:*¨༺ ༻¨*:·.
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    The only types that usually end up trying to stick with me over a longer time are people strong in Fi, the problem is that has tended to be EII's instead of IEI's or SEI's. I have never gotten near close to ESI's, but with the natural asymmetry of supervision I really would rather not have to talk to another EII in my life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    The only types that usually end up trying to stick with me over a longer time are people strong in Fi, the problem is that has tended to be EII's instead of IEI's or SEI's. I have never gotten near close to ESI's, but with the natural asymmetry of supervision I really would rather not have to talk to another EII in my life.
    You and @DEAD should talk about EII meat



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