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Thread: Ethical Pornography

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    Ксеркс, царь царей xerx's Avatar
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    Default Ethical Pornography

    When is porn ethical? Can porn be ethical?
    Last edited by xerx; 08-27-2021 at 09:25 AM. Reason: reword

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    When it promotes biodegradable condoms

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    C O N S E N T
    L E G A L. A G E
    C O P Y R I G H T S

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    I think it depends on what you consider ethical. In terms of laws making sure legal age, consent, hours, pay etc…that would be ethical in working conditions.

    However, I don’t think porn can be ever ethical personally if we get to the nitty gritty of things because we would have to change a whole society and how we both view ourselves, sex, and sex work. What I mean is, sex work is still taboo despite it being the world oldest profession. People still look down upon sex workers and most don’t go into this field because they want to. Even if they do, it will cause them social stigma if people know. Also porn can lead to warped views on sex and with all kinds of porn out there, people can easily go down a rabbit whole. Then porn stars tend to have generally perfect bodies which can lead to false views of both men and women. Men may feel insecure about their body or penis size. Women may feel insecure about their bodies and vagina size. Even if there are all people of different shapes and sizes, people are still most likely going to seek out the „perfect“ or society view of perfect image and body type. It is extremely multilayered.

    Also, even if we watched porn between a loving normal couple, would it be ethical to show it? In the sense even if they were fine to consenting to their video, if you considered sex scared and ethical, you wouldn’t want to show it cause it could mean some deeper psychological issues for wanting to expose that to others. You’re dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t.
    Last edited by MissDucki; 08-27-2021 at 03:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Then porn stars tend to have generally perfect bodies which can lead to false views of both men and women. Men may feel insecure about their body or penis size. Women may feel insecure about their bodies and vagina size. Even if there are all people of different shapes and sizes, people are still most likely going to seek out the „perfect“ or society view of perfect image and body type.
    The porn industry thrives on self-hatred and insecurity.



    The production of porn may strive to be ethical but even if that was possible its widespread availability is also problematic. More and more children are compulsively consuming free porn online.

    People are addicted to watching people fuck, that's where we are in society rn.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141247/Children-aged-8-addicted-Internet-pornography.html

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifes...417-story.html
    “You are the music while the music lasts.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by D E M O N View Post
    The porn industry thrives on self-hatred and insecurity.
    Sounds like every other industry where people are paid for work.

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    The Evening and the Morning Star Eudaimonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Sounds like every other industry where people are paid for work.

    I see what you mean, but I think this is a cynical over generalization. Medicine, teaching, farming, aerospace engineering, etc, don't prey on the insecurities of people.

    To your point though, I'm not making an argument for why porn is uniquely bad when I say this, because there are several industries that use this tactic.

    The fitness industry is a analogous example to the porn industry where consumption of fitness media is tied-in with up-selling supplements and gadgets.
    “You are the music while the music lasts.”
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    Mainstream legal porn is already very ethical. Anybody who thinks otherwise is just being some unhealthy enneagram 1, putting their nose in other people's business in order to feel morally superior when they are clearly not. Also probably hypocritical as hell cuz they themselves are probably into some weird thing that they would be judged for.

    It's ethical because:

    (1. It's overseed a lot by the FBI. Primarily to make sure it's not kiddy. (2. It has to go on the 2557 recordbase thing usually. I think there's legal cavaets with this but pretty sure it's a law in most states. (3 Before they do bdsm scenes they ask if the person is okay with it. Even if it seems very natural and sponteanous they still ask them if they're okay with everything. (4 They have to sign a lot of Te/Ti paperwork. (5 They have to tell people that this is only an enacted fantasy and to not try it at home etc.

    However to stop the thing where people regret if after they do it- which I think is usually asshole religious types brainwashing them ((& I will never on the same side as religion who has persecuted my people for years)) & they're allowing bigoted people to be in their head when they shouldn't be - but if they feel guilty doing it afterwards ala Jake Genesis, I think cartoon/graphic porn has the best shot at being truly ethical because a real person isn't being involved.

    I still don't think it's okay to have something too immoral just because it's 'graphic novel porn' - this shouldn't be used as an excuse for underage material or anything, but it has a much higher chance of not exploiting people.

    If you were molested or abused or raped, try to get some help for that ((I don't necessarly mean a mainstream Te therapy place cuz that can backfire)) but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. People don't have the right to take away other people's consensual kink and fun just because they were hurt.

    As always I'm going to post this song cuz I like it so much and always sums my view on this topic. Sex is not the enemy, so let's stop making it the enemy.


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    I think maybe this is a gay/straight difference as well because a lot of gay porn is really super tame. I think you'd have to be very homophobic or deranged to think of most gay porn as being "unethical" as it's usually way too boring and safe to be unethical lol. It usually goes out of its way to play nice to the LSE businessmen who they know view it at home while pretending to be against it in public and in church.

    But yeah I think in some straight porn scenes they can get rather super rough and "playfully misogyinistic" but again- in real life, a lot of women will date guys like that and it seems to turn them on so who are we to judge? And even that stuff has its rules and must follow federal laws. If I was a straight woman/caring beta male str8 dude maybe I'd feel different on this issue... but there are still gay porn scenes that can be rough.

    Since I'm Se dual-seeking and a sinful homosexual, of course those rougher scenes are my favorite ones and I don't like the mild mealy-mouthed 'let's not offend anybody' scenes that put you straight to sleep! I agreed with gay porn performer Lance Gear so much when he said gay porn was way too soft. ((and damn some of his scenes can be wicked hot lol - so I'm glad he was the change he wanted to see in the world.)) LoL I'm gay but I'm still a guy- I usually need something a bit more rough and intense - and you know what? I refuse to feel guilty or dirty because of my love of non-PC Se rough sex. If a person can't handle all of me- they don't deserve to be my friend.

    I guess maybe- I should be a bit more nicer and understanding to the other side even though they most likely aren't going to be that with me and are just gonna be like "Ahh he's so sinful and gay get him away from me!!!" Heterosexual moralists are so fragile and sensitive lol...

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    When is porn ethical? Can porn be ethical?
    Ethics are subjective, so yes...porn can be ethical to some people. It is ethical when people consider it to be so.

    If it affects one's life with detriment, they should seek solutions. If it has no negative consequences in one's life I don't see where anyone finds entitlement to deem such a thing "unethical." That is ultimately one's own place to make such a decision.

    There are real people behind these avatars on the screen. Each of us have our own stories, struggles, and lives. Think before you speak, we are more than NPCs.

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    I will never understand why society assumes people--particularly women--who express their sexuality have low self-esteem, self-respect, or are slutty. I really don't understand the reasoning behind it at the end of the day. It's no more than a societal value. "This is what self-respect is, because we said so." No independent thinking, no room for even contemplating the possibility that they have self-respect while enjoying their sexual, carnal instincts. No open mind, such as "perhaps they are on film because that's a type of fetish." People merely regurgitate this information because it is what's fed to them.

    It's similar to the way people label women who wear skimpy clothes "sluts" and assume their self-esteem must be low. Yet, clothes do nothing about the health of the mind. The insides look the same regardless of what clothing is worn.

    There are real people behind these avatars on the screen. Each of us have our own stories, struggles, and lives. Think before you speak, we are more than NPCs.

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    i was making up a porn scene in an alien research lab base where green slime is stored in huge see through cylinders all over the place with alien actors dressed up as aliens using lab equipment on whores tied up in green slime having sex cuz to trigger erotic fantasy. it would look all freaky ya no.

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    i kinda agree with @Adam Strange. maybe. i view it as a worker's rights issue... if there are issues it's about that. i don't know enough to know what all the issues are... usually worker's rights issues imo tend to be subtle. there will be some policy and the higher-ups think everything is just groovy because that policy is there, but then there will be a subtle atmosphere of exploitation, cute little baby elephants in the room we don't talk about because only the exploited can see them and if they try to point them out they are gaslit about it and told they have a bad attitude at work. things need to very much be on the terms of the porn star/performer, basically.

    like a lot of workplaces will not let their employees have terms, for instance the ones paying minimum wage (which ppl can't live on as it hasn't kept up with the costs of living, ty reagonomics?). if those workers bitch about it they are told the problem is them, although the pandemic has had an effect and every time i sense rising anger in the ranks among people in service positions i do my best to convey an attitude (ahem not so much in words exactly but on the same wavelength their attitude is on) that tells them i am with them (i want them to win). if they are rude because they are so sick of all the entitled ppl they have to deal with every day, i rejoice inside.

    anyway my guess is there is exploitation in the porn industry that might not be being called out enough IF the porn performers do not fully have their own terms (and i could be wrong because i'm ignorant!), which means the right to say NO with no consequences even if it means killing someone's vision (i don't think it has to be so extreme in all jobs, but the porn industry is special). because sometimes a policy says you have that right but if you take it you find you become "a problem." anyway the porn industry is one of the ones that needs this the most. if things are set on the terms of the worker, they will be able to set how they can be treated boldly and without fear of reprimand, job loss, mistreatment, being gaslit or invalidated, etc.

    the problem at least america always seems to have is the higher ups understanding that making the most money can't be the first priority; that the rights of their workers have to come first. i mean obviously there's a balance in that if they don't make money they can't help their workers, but i assume usually people are just aiming for the highest profits possible, human cost be damned. and maybe i'm a bit too cynical about that.

    and another thing, wherever there is the opportunity to exploit, people will take it. someone mentioned farming. i've read things before about the plight of migrant workers. they don't have rights because they're often not citizens. so they can be exploited in a "special" way with no consequences to their employers. it's pretty close to slavery imo. i thought the pandemic also revealed the way low wage workers are exploited in the US even more clearly in case some ppl weren't noticing. these "essential workers" were put at greater risk and some of them actually died because of it.

    /and now i feel all ashamed for my righteous sounding post which is probably more of my bad nomos!/
    Last edited by inumbra; 10-04-2021 at 01:16 AM.

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    I think one of the main sources of ethical porn are the user-generated reddit pages like bigtiddygothgf, asiansgonewild, etc. And maybe suicide girls.

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    Imho, it can be iffy to conflate sex positivism with supporting the porn industry. Even though porn performers deserve our support 100%, I do think porn work on its own is almost always inherently exploitative. I don’t think true/earnest consent is consistently possible in this context, esp. one in a hypercapitalist economy like the US'.

    Many porn performers are not entering the business simply because they love sex; it’s also done, often primarily so, out of financial hardship and necessity. There are of course people who are exhibitionistic and would act in porn even if they weren’t earning money. But it's too difficult to say whether someone would be okay with having their body all over the internet, in ways they didn't control, if money (and often financial hardship) weren't a factor. At the end of the day, porn's some of the most uniquely vulnerable labor someone can do, and so self-determination is key to its ethicality. We won't be there for awhile, but non-commodified, self-made porn is a great example of how porn can be non-exploitative.

    Especially if not self-produced, and if the directors won’t accommodate scenes to the actors’ comfort levels, it's hard to say that the majority of actors consent to specific scenes they don't feel good about. If a 24 year old woman has two kids at home with no food on the table, of course she’s more likely to “consent” to performing an act she’s not comfortable with (let alone perform in the first place). But her participation in that act, even if seemingly willing, does not constitute real given consent if the studio won't pay her otherwise. She can withdraw her legal consent, but there's financial pressure on her not do so--she's subject to others' whims to earn an income.
    Last edited by aciaradh; 10-04-2021 at 03:45 AM. Reason: wording and clarity

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    I've listened to a lot of anti-porn content on the Internet. Mainly, it's because I'm fascinated by lost causes. But it's also because I'm ambivalent about the issue of sex work in general (I had a religious upbringing, so that may be what's doing it, IDK).


    Most of it comes from traditional conservatives and radical (especially Marxist) feminists.

    This Marxist lady sums up the feminist case against porn.




    Some psychologists are also sounding the alarm about its addictive effects.


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    /doesn't listen/ but i may bc i'm curious just not now

    i'm def not anti-porn and i believe there are people who love it (who work in it as performers). i mean they do apply for this job, and that says something.

    i'm anti-purity-cleanse for society. i understand that toxicity can rise and i know from ahem a bad family upbringing that toxicity in a group of ppl can become so high it leads to death... so yes cleansing is sometimes needed... but there are people who want to make the world super uptight by their standards and those people are worse than anything. these are the people who would burn you to death as a witch, who would subject you to all manner of horror to "save your soul." i'd rather debauchery.

    /ahem but i shouldn't say more yet/

    but i would say that these puritans exist on both the left and the right... but i can't say more yet without listening.

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    It is ethical, when the performers would do it for free. Otherwise, no.

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    I don’t know what ethical pornography would or would not look like, but I told an (ethical) ESI that I watch a lot of porn, and she got an expression on her face like she’d just turned over a rock and seen the bugs underneath, so maybe she has some opinions on this.

    I just like to look at naked women. I’ll bet you that she does, too.

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    Morality aside, I'm not sure how ethical it is to consume something that weakens you so much, chipping away will and drive. Like many things that produce an unnatural high it messes with baseline dopamine which can lead to constant low-grade levels of depression and apathy since "normal" levels are never enough anymore.

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    i don't watch much porn and i'm super depressed... lol. i could write an essay on why and porn doesn't feature. but ted bundy indulged someone who was scared of porn and told him it's why he became a serial killer (it's not).

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i don't watch much porn and i'm super depressed... lol. i could write an essay on why and porn doesn't feature. but ted bundy indulged someone who was scared of porn and told him it's why he became a serial killer (it's not).
    Oh, porn isn't the sole cause of depression for everyone, of course. It can be a contributor. I know what interview you're talking about--yeah, TB manipulated that situation for one more shot at attention before the end, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aria View Post
    Oh, porn isn't the sole cause of depression for everyone, of course. It can be a contributor. I know what interview you're talking about--yeah, TB manipulated that situation for one more shot at attention before the end, I think.
    totally agree he just wanted to play a game and probably enjoyed that it was working. i'm not sure TB knew why he did what he did but everyone kept asking and he was dark-gregarious. i just am not sure about targeting porn specifically wrt anything. it's like it's an entertainment driven culture but i wouldn't choose to nix all entertainment... i mean i would rather society made itself more worth living in so ppl don't need to find somewhere else to live (anywhere other than the world).

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    Do they pay a living wage? Do they pay for regular STI testing?

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    i just don't know, maybe i'm corrupted or something... but i guess it's not the darkness in the world, it's the mundane... mundane 8-5 on and on and on... so i do supplement with entertainment, but it's not the entertainment that's killing me... it's the norms. they aren't exactly dark, but they are soul-killing. i would choose virtual reality 100% over this place, but i was born a bit too early. /hides/

    and actually this connects to the OP, this dissatisfaction in this other thread lol... i think it is so much worse for humans... what makes life worth it? if you are an animal you often don't have to ask. but i once again will go back on that... i think humans oft underestimate the realities of animals and what they experience in their minds and i stick by that. there's this need to be so separate, so special... but... i feel it's overdone all the time. this weird self-worship.

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    i liked the lockdown, it freed me from the world, it was a rare year of freedom. but now it's over and i at least have what it told me.

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    My SLI friend told me it gave her an excuse to be introverted. I didn't mind it at first, either--agree that there were lessons. But it was too stressful for me with my business being impacted and other life stuff happening at the same time.

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    So, what is unethical pornography? Oh, that is right it is outlawed in areas where it is considered to be only unethical.

    As per usual it is all about how you do/use it.
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    Hoes have always been trading their pussy for money. But now I'm supposed to pretend it's "ethical" and "empowering".

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    When is whiskey ethical?
    Porn on itself has no ethical considerations to be made, it is rather a soft drug as alcohol, and what is/isn't ethical is it's distribution, production and regulation.

    Ideally, regulations should progressively ban pornography on subjects that deviate from normal sexuality, until getting to vanilla, and then progressively regulating the access to that vanilla porn untill you can push for prohibition. The same with other soft drugs, sudden prohibition will only create a gigantic black market, but a gradual one will create smaller black market niches that would be harder to access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrInternet View Post
    No such thing as truly ethical porn, and if there was, it wouldn't be as popular as porn in its current state.
    What about erotica, amateur stuff, and Reddit girls posting their tits online?
    @Aria,
    not sure if this is TMI, but

    Re. “weakening,” I assume you’re talking about masturbation and not just porn. I don’t like porn at least in general, so I don’t watch it, but I do masturbate, and I wouldn’t say it “weakens” me unless I do it excessively. If I don’t masturbate for a while I tend to be more generally frustrated, more easily angered, and tend to be more impulsive and think less clearly. And obviously am a lot more horny around girls.

    I think the weird neuroses that seem to affect people re masturbation/porn set in because of feelings of guilt.

    @RBRS, why should regulation try to ban pornography in the first place? And in any case I’m not comfortable with governments even having the ability to enforce porn bans — anything past banning its commercial production.
    Views and clicks make these grow.

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    I never jived with anything preceded "ethical". Ethical porn. Ethical polyamory. Ethical necrophilia. The very term already indicates there is a deep irreconcilable moral problem with whatever act is in question. People will proselytize with a bunch of arbitrary but commercially acceptable guidelines that when engaged on a personal or even societal level will always consequentially lead to the most depraved things that one could imagine when the act in question is already brought up. "Ethical" never means "life style", independence, or being "non judgemental", as cringy and meaningless those are. It simply is just a term for when... when will things get worse? People would try to counter this by saying by giving this "ethical brevity" to things there will be unexpected efficacy. For example, they'll point to Denmark (or whatever degenerate Nordic country), trying to show legalizing prostitution makes things "healthier" or "safer", totally forgetting they are promoting pedophilia on cartoons.

    So in short, no. There is no ethical porn. But anyways, ethics are just a weak man's morals. Never negotiate with the devil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    I never jived with anything preceded "ethical". Ethical porn. Ethical polyamory. Ethical necrophilia. The very term already indicates there is a deep irreconcilable moral problem with whatever act is in question. People will proselytize with a bunch of arbitrary but commercially acceptable guidelines that when engaged on a personal or even societal level will always consequentially lead to the most depraved things that one could imagine when the act in question is already brought up. "Ethical" never means "life style", independence, or being "non judgemental", as cringy and meaningless those are. It simply is just a term for when... when will things get worse? People would try to counter this by saying by giving this "ethical brevity" to things there will be unexpected efficacy. For example, they'll point to Denmark (or whatever degenerate Nordic country), trying to show legalizing prostitution makes things "healthier" or "safer", totally forgetting they are promoting pedophilia on cartoons.

    So in short, no. There is no ethical porn. But anyways, ethics are just a weak man's morals. Never negotiate with the devil.
    Are there ethical worms?

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    Worms are pretty cute, so ye. Used to pick them up as a kid to save them.

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    which also brings up the question... does everything HAVE to be "ethical"? i mean i am more interested in where the rubber hits the road with individual harm... but a life without sin... is no life at all. /hides/ ?
    Last edited by inumbra; 10-05-2021 at 04:23 AM.

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    Romance novel are emotional porn.

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    Ethical to me is about harm. So if I perceive something is harmful to people, I’m less inclined to be supportive of it. Porn is one of those things, especially in large quantities and with certain directions it takes, as well as how it impacts the lives of the people performing in ways they might not realize they’re signing up for--if they are indeed doing it voluntarily. Not to mention the relationships it destroys.

    Obviously people have differing definitions of what constitutes harm, and thus what’s ethical.

    Since porn probably isn't going anywhere anytime soon, I agree there need to be fair laws and compensation in place for the performers, many of whom are being trafficked.
    Last edited by Aria; 10-07-2021 at 03:30 AM.

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    i can't see porn as 100% harmful... like many things it is a mixed bag... i mean so many things in society are harmful... and so many things have hurt me so much more than porn which i feel hasn't harmed me really at all? maybe in a really weak attractor kinda way that is about something bigger than porn (it's behind the entertainment culture in general). i'm sure there are porn performers who really like their jobs and that would make them happier than i am. like there is mitigating harm and then there is purifying things trying to make people perfect, and that leads to a different kind of harm. so i do feel like there's a balance.

    http://www.rolereboot.org/sex-and-re...ife/index.html (like see working in porn has saved people's lives lol)

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    PS I just have to post something contrary to my last post

    https://exoduscry.com/blog/shiftingc...ut-on-pornhub/

    I think it's that the internet creates increasing demand and thus this fuels increasing sex trafficking, a lot of which is of children

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    PS I just have to post something contrary to my last post

    https://exoduscry.com/blog/shiftingc...ut-on-pornhub/

    I think it's that the internet creates increasing demand and thus this fuels increasing sex trafficking, a lot of which is of children
    Horrifying, and not uncommon. And it's people that create the increasing demand--semantics maybe, but an important distinction. But yeah, with the rise of the internet it's widespread and there's instant access so it's become big business for sure.

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