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Thread: Devaluation of women in society (semi-rant)

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    Default Devaluation of women in society (semi-rant)

    So a while back, I tried to befriend a lass on facebook. She claimed to be EII, and I thought otherwise, she also was from my country, so I thought this was an opportunity to make a new friend. I opened PM on her and I was greeted with "waaat are you on dude??!" or similar. The exchange didn't go too well, and I had just recently survived an incursion into a lesbian IRC channel, which seemed all too similar to how this woman decided to interact with me. Turns out she was a "radfem" (radical feminist - feminazi).

    So it didn't go well, and coupled with my recent relationship history of interacting with either goldiggers , haters, unfaithfuls, or manipulators, I'm becoming a bit of a misoginist. Or not quite... I'll explain exactly the nuance of what I've become: women by default do no longer get positioned into the "respected" camp. They're sort of "In probation" as an species.

    I mean, I won't be disrespectful per se by default, but the instant I begin to identify a glimpse of any of these aforementioned behaviors, they lose respect (which is pretty often). It seems nowadays you are not allowed to hate on women, even if it is justified, with the advent of radical feminism, etc, while they can call men "dudes" and we get blasted with heroines in media that seem to be stronger physically than men (e.g. wonderwoman, black widow, etc).

    Where are the women of old: pure, honest and self-sacrificial?

    What are your thoughts on this...?
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    When I looked at women’s forums that discussed dating and men it made me something of a misogynist for a time. It can be hard not to look at those kinds of discussions, correlate it to what you see IRL, and come to the conclusion that women are genuinely vile creatures incapable of love (for anyone but her children at least. And even that’s not a given).

    Then you look around for any counterevidence. Are there women who aren’t like this? You probably won’t find many, because as it turns out, most women are garbage. It also happens that most men are also garbage, but this is a separate issue and not really your main concern at the moment.

    I think what stings so hard for a guy is a sense of being told all your life that women are more morally virtuous than you; that it’s because of other men’s rude behavior that they’re distrustful toward men; that that’s why you should have to prove you’re good enough for them. Then you see so many of them being so consciously evil and manipulative. And, worse, you realize that even though this is just random women on the Internet, you see what they’re describing all around you. It’s fucking all of them, you feel like, just trying to take advantage of men. “What the fuck was I working for? Why the fuck did I keep overlooking this behavior? Why was I told I was so much worse than they were? Why do I keep seeing this everywhere I look and no one calling the woman out on it?

    I’m honestly really sympathetic to misogynists because I understand this feeling and because no one else acknowledges or respects it, while every fucking minuscule complaint women have against men gets published and talked about in NYT opeds (oh there I go minimizing women’s feelings). Society gives the impression that women are angels, and it’s a fantasy men really want to believe. Most men are genetically hardwired to be weak when it comes to women and the feeling that they all will never love you or see you as anything but a walking ATM destroys your sense of self-worth. Unless you’re @Adam Strange I guess, who seems to be fine with it.

    Personally the only way I can keep my sanity is to try to make myself conscious of the fact that most people are just flaming sacks of garbage and that most men, who are garbage, deserve most women, who are garbage. But you shouldn’t yourself sink to the garbage level or let what the garbage people think affect your self-worth. There are, of course, a small minority of women out there who are not garbage (this is obvious if you’re honest; men who insist there aren’t are just lashing out) and thus will be attracted to other not-garbage-people. I can thus accept my love for women, knowing there are some OK ones out there, and not be driven crazy by feelings of sickened horror at my own feelings for the sex.

    (That phrasing by the way was kind of borrowed from an EIE guy, if that’s not obvious.)
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 08-25-2021 at 10:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I think what stings so hard for a guy is a sense of being told all your life that women are more morally virtuous than you; that it’s because of other men’s rude behavior that they’re distrustful toward men; that that’s why you should have to prove you’re good enough for them.
    I'm not misoynist nor have anything against women in general; I actually think that in most countries they suffer more from inegality and patriarcal decision structures(limited life choices, higher risk in relationships, lower pay, catcalling...) which explains some of their defensiveness. I don't think women are more moral/purer/better than men, they are just humans and should be treated as such, not some phantastical overpure loving being. Expecting better behaviour from them than from men would be a bit hypocritical and would just be some continuation of monotheistic gender roles. Yet I've seen some women use this victim discourse as some "free pass" to behave like jerks towards men, maybe because of some hurt in the past, but that doesn't mean it's ok to treat people like shit.

    Summary: being a jerk doesn't depend on gender or sexuality, but jerks will use those explanations to take advantage of you

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    So a while back, I tried to befriend a lass on facebook. She claimed to be EII, and I thought otherwise, she also was from my country, so I thought this was an opportunity to make a new friend. I opened PM on her and I was greeted with "waaat are you on dude??!" or similar. The exchange didn't go too well, and I had just recently survived an incursion into a lesbian IRC channel, which seemed all too similar to how this woman decided to interact with me. Turns out she was a "radfem" (radical feminist - feminazi).

    So it didn't go well, and coupled with my recent relationship history of interacting with either goldiggers , haters, unfaithfuls, or manipulators, I'm becoming a bit of a misoginist. Or not quite... I'll explain exactly the nuance of what I've become: women by default do no longer get positioned into the "respected" camp. They're sort of "In probation" as an species.

    I mean, I won't be disrespectful per se by default, but the instant I begin to identify a glimpse of any of these aforementioned behaviors, they lose respect (which is pretty often). It seems nowadays you are not allowed to hate on women, even if it is justified, with the advent of radical feminism, etc, while they can call men "dudes" and we get blasted with heroines in media that seem to be stronger physically than men (e.g. wonderwoman, black widow, etc).

    Where are the women of old: pure, honest and self-sacrificial?

    What are your thoughts on this...?
    obviously the role of the woman in society has changed over the last 100 years with 3 feminist waves.
    postmodernism also has made it so that whoever you are, you can create a life for yourself doing whatever you like, being whoever you want. this is a consequence of the large amounts of freedom we have in our western societies.
    even the notion of gender itself has become disputed (look at trans people, all the new genders being invented). you can even ''pick'' your own gender in a way now.

    it has its downsides and upsides.
    luckily, for example, if you are an NT woman, you are not socially obligated to become a housewife at age 20 or whatever like your grandparents, because that wouldnt fit her qualities.
    i like that we have freedom in our societies to experiment with who we are. we are experimenting right now. the battle of the sexes is also being investigated. how far can you go in this freedom? can you pick gender? what effects does gender really have on behaviour? these are themes being explored right now.
    i dont think its necessarily bad. once we find the limits of what we can do, it will go back to the mean. women are women after all, who get pregnant and so cannot participate in the workforce while pregnant. also a lot of them have strong mother/nesting
    instincts that are hard to ''erase''. not every woman is a career oriented one, but its nice to have the option for the onces that are.

    i think the more freedom the better. i firmly believe you should be able to try and be anything you want, so long as you dont hurt anyone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I'm not misoynist nor have anything against women in general; I actually think that in most countries they suffer more from inegality and patriarcal decision structures(limited life choices, higher risk in relationships, lower pay, catcalling...) which explains some of their defensiveness. I don't think women are more moral/purer/better than men, they are just humans and should be treated as such, not some phantastical overpure loving being. Expecting better behaviour from them than from men would be a bit hypocritical and would just be some continuation of monotheistic gender roles. Yet I've seen some women use this victim discourse as some "free pass" to behave like jerks towards men, maybe because of some hurt in the past, but that doesn't mean it's ok to treat people like shit.

    Summary: being a jerk doesn't depend on gender or sexuality, but jerks will use those explanations to take advantage of you
    Hi, why did you reply to my post? Yours could stand on its own, but I don’t see what mine has to do with it — are you disagreeing with something I said? I don’t disagree with anything you said, if that isn’t clear. It’s very late for me so apologies if I’m being stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Hi, why did you reply to my post? Yours could stand on its own, but I don’t see what mine has to do with it — are you disagreeing with something I said? I don’t disagree with anything you said, if that isn’t clear.
    What I quoted from your post was exactly the kind of "virtuous and saintly victim" discourse that is a lie and a scam, a lie that made you suffer apparently. Women are not better/more virtuous and men shouldn't have to prove they are "good enough" for anyone. Virtue is not something you do for others, but for itself. Like, be nice because it's nice to be nice, not to please other people Women that use this story to ask something from you might be using you as an emotional crutch.
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 08-25-2021 at 10:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    What I quoted from your post was exactly the kind of "virtuous and saintly victim" discourse that is a lie and a scam, a lie that made you suffer apparently. Women are not better and men shouldn't have to prove they are "good enough" for anyone. Virtue is not something you do for others, but for itself. Women that use this to ask something from you are using you.
    I guess I’m confused because that was more or less the point of my post. I don’t know if that wasn’t clear, or if perhaps we have different understandings of why the quote button is used. Well, this seems to be be unimportant so I’m going to bed; have a good day in parfumistan. シ

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I guess I’m confused because that was more or less the point of my post. I don’t know if that wasn’t clear, or if perhaps we have different understandings of why the quote button is used. Well, this seems to be be unimportant so I’m going to bed; have a good day in parfumistan. シ
    Interesting that you thought I needed to "agree" or "disagree" with something that is literally just some of your life experiences. There is no right or wrong here, just different perceptions/interpretations I think I was just using what you wrote as foundation for my own musings. Mb that's some difference between rational and irrational temperament? If you really want feedback on what you wrote, I might say that you sound a little bit bitter when you call people "garbage". Bonne nuit!
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 08-25-2021 at 11:54 AM.

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    While I do think that more freedom to do what one wants is good, there is also the issue of responsibility. You can't just have freedom and then not care about the consequences of how one acts on others. I do think with the way society evolves, things will probably balance out, and genders will become more equal. As of now men are favored in some ways and women in others. We need to talk about it though, I think that making it taboo or not pc to criticize feminism (even if it's just certain aspects of it) is not constructive.

    While I'm not for these trad gender roles, I do think the way many women present themselves on the dating scene (for example tinder profiles) is very repulsive, and I don't think these women realize it. Yes, I get that men can be repulsive in the dating scene too, but I think they are more often called out and held accountable, whereas when it's a woman putting men down or being extremely demanding in what they want it's more likely to be perceived as "empowering" to women, when in reality it's just being a cunt. This is what I mean by responsibility above. Feminists have emphasized that they want more power for women, seems they don't really emphasize the responsibility that comes with it, and that's a mistake imo. Note that I'm not anti-feminist. But as a movement, it's certainly not perfect. Feminism has done alot to help women gain more rights, but it also doesn't really consider things from men's pov or include that pov in its discourse or narrative; as a result many men feel displaced by feminism, I think it's more than just fear of losing dominant status like some say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    ........ Most men are genetically hardwired to be weak when it comes to women and the feeling that they all will never love you or see you as anything but a walking ATM destroys your sense of self-worth. Unless you’re @Adam Strange I guess, who seems to be fine with it. ...........
    @FreelancePoliceman, you have to have a sense of self-worth before it can be destroyed. I think mine is pretty low and my achievements in life are just compensating for that, and I also think I do have an unfortunate tendency to buy women's affections. Or, at least, their time. The affection seems to happen with exposure.
    When I was in my twenties and "dating", I made a commitment to myself that I would never pay a woman to be with me. Not buy her drinks, nor anything else. The mere fact that I had to make that pact tells you something about where I was coming from.

    At that time, the only way I'd spend money on a woman was if I asked her out to dinner. Then, I'd pay. If she asked me out to dinner, then I'd expect her to pay.
    At the time, I was broke and so were most of the women that I met, so this was an easy bargain and ensured that I'd actually meet women who had a job.

    Now that I have some money, and now that most women my age are out of the dating pool or are broke from a divorce or have had a chance (like many men) to see how their spending habits have played out over a lifetime (they have no money), I find that I'm meeting women who are toxic and want me to spend money on them, or I meet women who are broke and want me to spend money on them. The healthy women who have jobs are pretty scarce in my experience.

    Or maybe I'm just attracting a particular type of woman, IDK. In any case, I'd like to emphasis that a situation where I'm spending money to buy a woman's time is not OK with me.

    I don't expect a woman to have as much money as I do. Heck, most men don't have as much money as I do. But what I'm looking for is a relationship where money fades into the background and isn't important. One in which we are in the relationship for how we make each other feel. Because, if and when the money's gone, you will still have that other person, and it would be best if a lack of money didn't change the way you feel about each other.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-25-2021 at 12:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    Where are the women of old: pure, honest and self-sacrificial?
    They are all in your head. Women have always been dishonest, greedy, manipulative, unfaithful.

    Since they are approximately half the world's population and most of humanity behaves this way.
    What is good?—Whatever augments the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself, in man. What is evil?—Whatever springs from weakness. What is happiness?—The feeling that power increases—that resistance is overcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D E M O N View Post
    They are all in your head. Women have always been dishonest, greedy, manipulative, unfaithful.

    Since they are approximately half the world's population and most of humanity behaves this way.
    Pretty much.
    People have such unrealistic ideas of what "women" and also "men" are supposed to be, it's detrimental to everyone.
    No one is a fucking pure angel sent from God in person to sacrifice their whole life to you, wtf.
    General you, all genders implied.

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    Well lol. At least this one proved to be easy to decide to nip in the bud. I’d put a big fat black sharpie line through her name
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    I honestly wonder on what kind of women you guys approach or are meeting because it’s very rare for me to run into these kind of women. I have run I to them and befriended them when I was dumb, but it is more scarce now and they are cut off quick.

    I’ll be honest, reading it kinda made me mad and I don’t want to go into a full on war path lol. I’m not going to empathize or sympathize with misogyny in both genders because both genders have it. That leads to a dangerous cycle of, devaluation, pedestal putting, obsession, lack of genuine connection, and entitlement.

    Anyways, we’re all crappy humans. Just find The humans that are less crappy and go from there. As I have mentioned in another thread before, If you have problems, it’s one of three things: it’s the environment, it’s you, or it’s both.

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    Areas with big cities or colleges is usually where you run into these sort of women ime, liberalism seems to decrease the farther you get from them. Voting patterns seem to back this up.
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    Women aren't devalued in American society. Men are over-all and it's quite obvious. "Elite women" just pretend otherwise for even more power and money- it has turned into this narcissistic thing. Many people don't care about really ending bigotry or discrimination they just want to be the one that holds the whip etc.

    And yeah there is this ultra left college with a bunch of black people and they have cruelly taken things over and intimidated people into letting them do whatever they wanted and only they can be the victims etc. It is this unfortunate reality of living in an area that is too left. it is like that with a sub-sect of people take over.

    There are gay men that really are pedophiles that take over political agencies like that and totally corrupt it with perversion and any criticism of them is 'you're being homophobic!' It's quite silly- obviously liberalsm going too far. There are people who are empowered when they shouldn't be just because they are the right minority in a city and it makes it look good for IEE SJWs. "See how inclusive and progressive we are by putting this crown on somebody just because they are the right minority!" They try to create a lot of laws and rules that are just harmful to people who are not them. "Law for thee- not for me" etc.

    But in small towns straight white males can still be the jerk-ish ones too, I mean it depends on where you are from and the values of that community. Once in awhile I will have a truck driving str8 male still start shit with me for absloutely no reason even tho I have absolutely no quarrel with the dude except for what goes on in his insecure brain. Same with some cops- they have historically harrassed faggets due their own insecurity about masculinity and not necessarily because we were doing anything wrong.

    I mean they have little right to play the victim either in many cases. This is a problem with everybody the world over. People play the victim and try to hide behind a minority status/their Blue Collar Str8 Man Town Ways instead of take personal responsibilty etc. Oh jeesh I'm starting to sound like a Republican. Well they have good points sometimes if they wouldn't be such jerks and stop hiding behind abusive authority people like the Karens & Darrens that they are...

    To be more precise - women OR males aren't really devalued. The heart is. "The heart" is usually considered a womanly thing archetypically speaking. What it seems like hating women is just usually hating the heart. Hating feeligs, relationships, corny yoai crap that radfems like that doesn't turn on anybody else etc. soap opears, compassion- cuz that's sissy stuff etc. Of course feminiazis hypocrtically hate men for being that way because they not-so-secretly need all men to be assholes so they can feel justified in their victim mantra etc.

    If you show your heart too much in this world it's often twisted and used against you and you get dumped on because people know you care enough to listen- so I mean feminazis are annoying- but we should develop our own boundaries against it as well. It's really easy to poke holes in their hypocrisy.

    Ever notice how feminazis will cruelly yell at a Beta Male to 'check yo privelege' but around a Chad that does everything wrong to women under the sun they stay silent and smile at him and never challenge him on his views of women simply because they are turned on by his Chad-ness? ((like that funny comic shows)) Yeah that's pretty much 'feminism' in a nutshell lol. If you genuinely do really care about women they can use it against you weirdly for their own advantage because it's not about equality or seeing eye to eye - the veil of its benevolence is just that. It's obviously about narcissism etc.

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    i am going to give the evil answer maybe... i just feel like the patterns i end up in with people all bear my signature. i do lash out in my mind hatefully sometimes about where to put it, but the truth is, it rests with me. the only grudge i can effectively nurse lol is about class issues in society and it is beyond any individual. every possible grudge is beyond any individual, it is global, and in the end i just realize that it's the world inside my head once again, and i am still here and there is no escape from my own mind. so all the "outer landscaping" projections reach towards, is only inner landscaping. but it's fun maybe for the brain to confuse itself sometimes as though there is a way to a world that isn't only in my mind. and any "hate" that flies free in my head i only burn myself down with.

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    Some MGTOW claim to only fuck hookers — the, uh, only honest women.

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    Sexual grievance forums expose people to so much adversarial thinking. You seek out the Manosphere after getting divorced or rejected; but after a couple of weeks of obsessive reading, you find yourself mouthing weird beliefs, like the idea that women should be responsible for their own orgasms during sex.

    Jilted women have their own cultish grievance forums too. Judging by online content, men and women really seem to hate each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Judging by online content, men and women really seem to hate each other.
    Henry Miller told Anais Nin something like he thought of women as ennemis, people he had to fight with to get what he wanted. That kind of thinking I feel is really old, just easier to notice nowadays since everything is more or less public on the internet.

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    Sadly I think most people hate each other & not sure how gender related it really is. I don't exactly see other males being all happy and gay and loving with each other either even though the image of that is amusing to me. And other women clearly don't like each other etc. I would say males hurt me much more often but when a female hurts me they are often so much better at being cruel & knowing how to get away with it so it kinda evens out to me.

    I like this song, it's kinda Delta moralizing-ish maybe lol but I think its interesting and I enjoy the message about how to achieve world peace:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxagZ9DQhSQ

  22. #22
    Ксеркс, царь царей xerx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    Henry Miller told Anais Nin something like he thought of women as ennemis, people he had to fight with to get what he wanted. That kind of thinking I feel is really old, just easier to notice nowadays since everything is more or less public on the internet.
    Yeah, this has always existed, and it's still the normal mode of operation for a lot of men and women, including many of the manosphere types.

    But for other men and women, it feels like they're stuck inside an echo chamber of bitterness and negative emotions. The fact that there's widespread anxiety WRT. modern dating should itself tell you something: that, for a lot of people, the battle of the sexes has been inflated out of proportion.
    Last edited by xerx; 08-31-2021 at 08:02 PM.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Yeah, this has always existed, and it's still the normal mode of operation for a lot of men and women, including many of the manosphere types.

    But for other men and women, it feels like they're stuck inside an echo chamber of bitterness and negative emotions. The fact that there's widespread anxiety WRT. modern dating should itself tell you something: that, for a lot of people, the battle of the sexes has been inflated out of proportion.
    I don't think it's been inflated any more out of proportion than any other time before, it's just closer to home.
    Someday, today will be the "good ol' days".

  24. #24
    Resonare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557
    So a while back, I tried to befriend a lass on facebook. She claimed to be EII, and I thought otherwise, she also was from my country, so I thought this was an opportunity to make a new friend. I opened PM on her and I was greeted with "waaat are you on dude??!" or similar. The exchange didn't go too well, and I had just recently survived an incursion into a lesbian IRC channel, which seemed all too similar to how this woman decided to interact with me. Turns out she was a "radfem" (radical feminist - feminazi).

    So it didn't go well, and coupled with my recent relationship history of interacting with either goldiggers , haters, unfaithfuls, or manipulators, I'm becoming a bit of a misoginist. Or not quite... I'll explain exactly the nuance of what I've become: women by default do no longer get positioned into the "respected" camp. They're sort of "In probation" as an species.

    I mean, I won't be disrespectful per se by default, but the instant I begin to identify a glimpse of any of these aforementioned behaviors, they lose respect (which is pretty often). It seems nowadays you are not allowed to hate on women, even if it is justified, with the advent of radical feminism, etc, while they can call men "dudes" and we get blasted with heroines in media that seem to be stronger physically than men (e.g. wonderwoman, black widow, etc).

    Where are the women of old: pure, honest and self-sacrificial?

    What are your thoughts on this...?
    I've learned to simply adapt to the times and trust that nature will curb any deviance from what's intended as it always has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @FreelancePoliceman, you have to have a sense of self-worth before it can be destroyed. I think mine is pretty low and my achievements in life are just compensating for that, and I also think I do have an unfortunate tendency to buy women's affections. Or, at least, their time. The affection seems to happen with exposure.


    In this instance, I disagree with your way of thinking, Adam. Outside of being a criminal or a shitty human in general, achievements are what define a man as it shows you bring some kind of value to society.
    Last edited by Resonare; 09-09-2021 at 08:13 PM. Reason: typo in quote

  25. #25
    twiggewed, dewusional, entitwed, snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    U are delusional, suffering from "overly localized*thinking".

    Yheres no point in explaining since if u cared about the truth u would have figure it out urself. Blasted by heroines? How many of the avengers are female how about villains. How are we Blasted exactly. We arent so does it stand out to u because u are biased? And u put the minority of Strong women as some sort of problem? Evenif they were a lot its still carttoons. Men are still way syronger why do u care. Mysoginists think themselves as the right ines so deviations are considered anti Men. Im not saying there isnt some idiots. Im saying the bitches like u consistengly do everything to lie misteprrsent anddelude themsrlves cuz ur so pathethic u cant exist without abusing someone else.

    L

  26. #26
    roger557's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    U are delusional, suffering from "overly localized*thinking".

    Yheres no point in explaining since if u cared about the truth u would have figure it out urself. Blasted by heroines? How many of the avengers are female how about villains. How are we Blasted exactly. We arent so does it stand out to u because u are biased? And u put the minority of Strong women as some sort of problem? Evenif they were a lot its still carttoons. Men are still way syronger why do u care. Mysoginists think themselves as the right ines so deviations are considered anti Men. Im not saying there isnt some idiots. Im saying the bitches like u consistengly do everything to lie misteprrsent anddelude themsrlves cuz ur so pathethic u cant exist without abusing someone else.

    L
    Dunno if this blather is directed to me, but I'll respond anyway:

    It is becoming apparent in society that there are some currents of feminism that intend to establish men as inferior to women. We've gone from one extreme to another. I simply think that nobody should treat somebody else badly without justification. If it is simply a dislike, learn to ignore whoever you dislike or whichever group that annoys you. As long as they're not harming anybody, who cares?
    Socionics gallery with a high accuracy rate:

    https://www.pinterest.com/socionicstype/

  27. #27
    twiggewed, dewusional, entitwed, snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    Why would i dislike someone if they arent harming anyone. Everyone can call what someone says blather. Conservatives are really profound thinkers, you see.

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