Why I'm Done with Socionics

[jason_m]

Quite simply: a whole bunch of people questioning my type. Most of these people's types don't stand to reason to me - but I would never question their type. People lashing out because I simply need to have some skepticism toward the theory, and not take it at complete face value. A few people who were congenial suddenly stooping to nothing but personal attacks. Having no luck or success with the theory for almost supernatural reasons. This place (and theory) is just a sh*thole for these reasons. Something I associate with the theory now is the movie ""Carrie." "The Game" might be another one. I have to say that I am just done with it.

[RBRS]

Socionics is a model lacking any sort of empirical backing of which every single "school" and socionist makes whatever they want. There's people who type by semantics, by traits, by eye movement or even through how long and curly your haircut is. The more you get into this, the more both interesting and absurd approaches you will find. There's something to take from this, and that is whatever "Type" you might be, your proper "You" will always be unadultered if you don't obsess over some type and try to imitate the descriptions (a lot of ppl do this, wasting their OG selves for a description wrote by a middle aged russian mom). If you are EII or LII, it's just nomenclature, your own self is not corrupted by it.

When people give you a type different to the image your ego is attached to (Because your self typing is evidently due to the image you want to portray both to the external world and to your own consciousness, as "Independent, scientific-minded person" image you incorrectly associate with Alpha NT due to stereotypes) it's not an attack on your ego, it's constructive for you to consider alternatives.

Your incapacity to delve deeper into the logic behind this, as well as your incapacity to separate stereotypes from reality, and your negative response to the whole system only for constructive suggestions (Albeit not always good or informed suggestions) being done with something because others disagree with your self-typing, giving up on it instead of providing proper arguments to justify your self-typing, not taking the system and trying to correlate it properly with your cognition or behaviors, highly suggest you are an ethical type. If this forum is also full of retards it doesn't mean the model doesn't work or isn't close to the truth about human information processing and cognition.

Muh not Fi because that's catholic morality and I don't like catholicism is not an argument, I also am from a Catholic country and have received proper conservative catholic education, that's not Fi, I already explained to you what Fi is in it's due thread

Muh I'm Ti because I like sciences is not an argument but a bad stereotype, there's no "science" IM, that's just a stereotype. Ti can serve for politics, teology, philosophy, computer science, gardening or any matter. I already explained to you what Ti is on it's due thread.

If instead of crying out and "being done" because socionics is not made to validate your own ego projections as some pop psychology MBTI sites do, you were trying to understand the model, and desconstructing/Criticizing and rejecting it or appraising it for it's consistencies and inconsistencies, as well as it's correlation with both subjective experience and objective experimentation, I would be thinking logical type.

Edit;

It has happened to me that I've been told to talk and write very unsimpathethic and others take it for an attack, I don't care much for anyone taking things as an attack anymore in my life but I care to say that my intention is to share my perspective, not to attack.

[ContractedCriminalboy]

And thus the exodus continues.

[CR400AF]

You are free to join or leave any personality communities. So that all one's own choice. What I find is that this forum is the most advanced online community but you may have different views.

[Aster]

You made two of these threads? I’ve felt kind of annoyed by it all, too, but I’ll be straight with you. You are being a drama Queen. lol. 100% agree with @RBRS

You are also getting stuck on the negative aspects of ‘the game’ which play and play in similar ways in different forms in social interactions. It’s a human thing. You can’t change other people, but you can change how you react by the wisdom gained and set a good example. Throwing your shit down and quitting makes you a quitter. The thing is, no one cares if you quit. They just see that they have won for a moment and then they will forget about you. So what is your tantrum solving? You aren’t the first to say the exact same thing.


I’m not trying to be shitty here, btw, I’m being honest and telling you the same thing I’d say to my own kids

[Metaphor]

this sounds half-baked rather than being done.

[ouronis]

How people react to your opinion seems separate from whether you should be done with socionics since socionics is a theory, not a tribe.

If you don't like people's opinions, just ignore them, who cares.

I can see why you'd want to ignore a person like RBRS, though.

[jason_m]

Socionics is a model lacking any sort of empirical backing of which every single "school" and socionist makes whatever they want. There's people who type by semantics, by traits, by eye movement or even through how long and curly your haircut is. The more you get into this, the more both interesting and absurd approaches you will find. There's something to take from this, and that is whatever "Type" you might be, your proper "You" will always be unadultered if you don't obsess over some type and try to imitate the descriptions (a lot of ppl do this, wasting their OG selves for a description wrote by a middle aged russian mom). If you are EII or LII, it's just nomenclature, your own self is not corrupted by it.

When people give you a type different to the image your ego is attached to (Because your self typing is evidently due to the image you want to portray both to the external world and to your own consciousness, as "Independent, scientific-minded person" image you incorrectly associate with Alpha NT due to stereotypes) it's not an attack on your ego, it's constructive for you to consider alternatives.

Your incapacity to delve deeper into the logic behind this, as well as your incapacity to separate stereotypes from reality, and your negative response to the whole system only for constructive suggestions (Albeit not always good or informed suggestions) being done with something because others disagree with your self-typing, giving up on it instead of providing proper arguments to justify your self-typing, not taking the system and trying to correlate it properly with your cognition or behaviors, highly suggest you are an ethical type. If this forum is also full of retards it doesn't mean the model doesn't work or isn't close to the truth about human information processing and cognition.

Muh not Fi because that's catholic morality and I don't like catholicism is not an argument, I also am from a Catholic country and have received proper conservative catholic education, that's not Fi, I already explained to you what Fi is in it's due thread

Muh I'm Ti because I like sciences is not an argument but a bad stereotype, there's no "science" IM, that's just a stereotype. Ti can serve for politics, teology, philosophy, computer science, gardening or any matter. I already explained to you what Ti is on it's due thread.

If instead of crying out and "being done" because socionics is not made to validate your own ego projections as some pop psychology MBTI sites do, you were trying to understand the model, and desconstructing/Criticizing and rejecting it or appraising it for it's consistencies and inconsistencies, as well as it's correlation with both subjective experience and objective experimentation, I would be thinking logical type.

Edit;

It has happened to me that I've been told to talk and write very unsimpathethic and others take it for an attack, I don't care much for anyone taking things as an attack anymore in my life but I care to say that my intention is to share my perspective, not to attack.

I don't care about business or anything Te. Period. If you can't understand or appreciate that then you are the stupidest, most insane person I have ever met. If I don't care about Te, then I don't have it as my suggestive function. If you can't understand or appreciate that then you are a f*cking j*ckass.

All you can do is prance around and beat your chest parroting the theory over and over, like an imbecile. Have you ever had an original idea in your life? Can you think from first principles at all? If the theory doesn't work then that is the end of it.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

In most religions, apostates are treated more harshly than non-believers.

[jason_m]

I don't care about business or anything Te. Period. If you can't understand or appreciate that then you are the stupidest, most insane person I have ever met. If I don't care about Te, then I don't have it as my suggestive function. If you can't understand or appreciate that then you are a f*cking j*ckass.

All you can do is prance around and beat your chest parroting the theory over and over, like an imbecile. Have you ever had an original idea in your life? Can you think from first principles at all? If the theory doesn't work then that is the end of it.

Even why I'm not 'Ti' - I would supposed it is because of the SLEs here. Let's think from first principles again: do they have even the slightest bit of logical or abstract intelligence? The answer is 'no.' Therefore, if they never have the quality, and I am opposite from them, I could have it. You see? If I then value Ti, I might not value Te. Are SLEs also sometimes interested in business. Never? Someone who cannot understand this is someone who just likes the idea that Fi goes with Te and says it over and over again, like some kind of parrot.

[jason_m]

And I think that is the problem. I want to understand how this stuff really works, hoping that someday someone will develop an alternative formulation that I can test to see if it fits. But that's not what people want. People in the theory just want to repeat its premises over and over like some kind of parrot, insisting that I am a certain type during their parroting. There isn't an original idea in the theory. I have just given up.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Quite simply: a whole bunch of people questioning my type. Most of these people's types don't stand to reason to me - but I would never question their type.

As @RBRS said, the point of Socionics isn't supposed to be validating some ego image. Questioning someone's type shouldn't be taken as a personal attack -- I'd even say that you should say something if you think someone is mistyped unless you're really convinced it would be pointless. That you feel so personally offended when people type you EII (that's the alternative typing I've seen of you; I don't know if there are others) indicates your approach to Socionics is wrong.

[jason_m]

As @RBRS said, the point of Socionics isn't supposed to be validating some ego image. Questioning someone's type shouldn't be taken as a personal attack -- I'd even say that you should say something if you think someone is mistyped unless you're really convinced it would be pointless. That you feel so personally offended when people type you EII (that's the alternative typing I've seen of you; I don't know if there are others) indicates your approach to Socionics is wrong.

What did I say? I DON'T VALUE TE. Therefore, if I call myself EII, I have a whole bunch of Te egos flocking to me who I don't like. I dare you to come up with a good argument against that. I mean it: try...

[FreelancePoliceman]

What did I say? I DON'T VALUE TE. Therefore, if I call myself EII, I have a whole bunch of Te egos flocking to me who I don't like. I dare you to come up with a good argument against that. I mean it: try...

Against what? Which Te people here do you think are particularly enamored with you? I don't believe this is actually a problem you experience.

What Socionics tries to gauge can't be changed by just believing yourself to be different. If you're EII, believing you're LII won't make you any less of an EII, and won't in itself change what Te people think about you -- unless it also makes you start acting in a more generally likable or dislikable way.

[jason_m]

Against what? Which Te people here do you think are particularly enamored with you? I don't believe this is actually a problem you experience.

What Socionics tries to gauge can't be changed by just believing yourself to be different. If you're EII, believing you're LII won't make you any less of an EII, and won't in itself change what Te people think about you -- unless it also makes you start acting in a more generally likable or dislikable way.

Here we go: now it's time to get into a real debate. And what is your response? To just parrot the theory verbatim. That's why I'm done with the theory.

[xerx]

This place ... is just a sh*thole for these reasons.

Well yeah, this website is the armpit of the Internet. That's the whole appeal.

[jason_m]

What I'm saying is: people just parrot the theory verbatim. Then when my type doesn't fit it's because I'm "lying about it." At best this is a soft science and soft theory. A poor craftsman blames his tools, and I guess in this case I am one of the tools of the theory...

[mr drapetomaniac]

We should make a plot:
I_j(t)
where I_j stands as accumulation of I give up threads (made by Jason) and t as time.

[RBRS]

I don't care about business or anything Te. Period. If you can't understand or appreciate that then you are the stupidest, most insane person I have ever met. If I don't care about Te, then I don't have it as my suggestive function. If you can't understand or appreciate that then you are a f*cking j*ckass.

All you can do is prance around and beat your chest parroting the theory over and over, like an imbecile. Have you ever had an original idea in your life? Can you think from first principles at all? If the theory doesn't work then that is the end of it.

If you sincerely believe Te = Business Ti = Science Fi = catholicism... man, not to hurt your feeling but you've already been explained what these IMs are, what an IM is, etc. It's not the theory's fault if you demonstrate a very very low IQ. Really man not to hurt you but I'll have a hard time finding someone that struggles that much with concept that are VERY SIMPLE.

And... man, another easy thing, there's a malleable framework for a theory we are working in, and I've already explained you how it works, if you wanna get socionics typed, or talk about socionics, you're gonna get theory, and you're gonna get definitions, that's a basic part of a logical debate. It is not appropiate to debate original concepts within the model in the context of this discussion.

If you don't want to play by the rules, you can either abandon it or create new rules/modify the system, as Gulenko does, or a lot of forum members have done throughout the years.

As an ending note, it is not that the model is not working, but that you're pretty dumb (no offence). It is impossible for someone to process information as "business" like if it was some basic part of the fucking brain, of fucking course you don't care about business, what the fuck were you thinking Te suggestive was? It's not about business, about science, or about religion.

[RBRS]

And I think that is the problem. I want to understand how this stuff really works, hoping that someday someone will develop an alternative formulation that I can test to see if it fits. But that's not what people want. People in the theory just want to repeat its premises over and over like some kind of parrot, insisting that I am a certain type during their parroting. There isn't an original idea in the theory. I have just given up.

>Demonstrate evident traits of ethical type and weakness in the logics area
>People tell to you you're ethical type
>Cry and moan, first because you don't understand very easy concepts and get hurt by others not validating your ego image
>Get explained politely how you are being wrong about the theory, as you literally don't know/understand the most basic foundations, on a discussion over the theory's veracity
>BOOOOO you're parroting that's not original

If you don't see the lack of reasoning...

[Poptart]

the point of Socionics isn't supposed to be validating some ego image.

If socionics isn’t for stroking egos, then why is this place a literal circle jerk for intuitives?

[chriscorey]

[FONT=Verdana]

If socionics wasn’t made for stroking egos, then why is this place a literal circle jerk for intuitives?

I thought it was a circle jerk for SLEs.

[mr drapetomaniac]

I thought it was a circle jerk for SLEs.

I thought only Fi valuers needed a circle jerk


[man... it feels so good to say this ]

[chriscorey]

I thought only Fi valuers needed a circle jerk


[man... it feels so good to say this ]

Yeah, they just keep going! Go them!

[FreelancePoliceman]

If socionics isn’t for stroking egos, then why is this place a literal circle jerk for intuitives?

Is it? I usually see more S people (usually SLEs...ツ) talking about how useless N people are. Though maybe the circlejerk does oscillate sometimes. You should check out the MBTI people if you haven’t already if you want to see a real intuitive circlejerk though.

I’ll grant that this place attracts a lot of weirdos who feed into each other’s weirdness, and the real weirdos tend to be N types. But I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen something like “N > S” here, even jokingly, while I’ve seen the reverse occasionally.

[lkdhf qkb]

We should make a plot:
I_j(t)
where I_j stands as accumulation of I give up threads (made by Jason) and t as time.

function.JPG

If socionics isn’t for stroking egos, then why is this place a literal circle jerk for intuitives?

It's not really a circle, more like a freaky circle or a Möbius strip. But please don't let that intimidate you, we can squish and make you some space. Feel free to ask the wifi password!

[Poptart]

Wow

[Poptart]

Am I being overly sensitive then? Lol I can’t believe nobody else sees this.

[MissDucki]

If fellow intuitives want to be in a circle jerk, we should all go to Reddit, particularly r/MBTI. Plus points if you type yourself as INTJ then go to r/INTJ. If you want to be a tormented INTJ, then INTP. Torment wouldn't matter at that point because you are that bitch - Einstein level of smart. Nobody understands you which is even better

When I feel like being a masochist, I type /isfj and I loveeeee it when my fellow duals and other rip my type to shreds and other sensors while looking like total pretentious assholes. Feels great man.

i still cringe when I heard a guy taking about being an INTJ in a public line and seemingly like a pretentious asshole. I love me so ILI but damn…I am very glad I got out of mbti

[EUDAEMONIUM]

@jason_m I think you are taking this all way too seriously and I think your initial instinct is correct. You need to give yourself a break. If and when you return try not to have other's opinions affect you this much.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Am I being overly sensitive then? Lol I can’t believe nobody else sees this.

You're not. I've noticed this as well.

[MissDucki]

Am I being overly sensitive then? Lol I can’t believe nobody else sees this.

I do think there is some intuitive circle jerk around here but, the ones who tend to do that are already a lot more self absorbed IMO and just want ego strokes. I kind of ignore at that point as they tend to be more younger or well….they want to feel special. Meh whatever. I’ve gone through my own sensor hate and I ain’t going through that again. That or cause they suck in the real world and need somewhere to feel superior

personally I feel a lot more accepted by the intuitives here in general. Yeah there are some that are a little high and mighty but the ones that have been humbled aren’t tooo bad. Just gotta hit them with a reality and sensor stick a couple times here and there. It was much much worse for me on Reddit…..it’s bad bad there.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

My type is literally H*tl*r and whatever else is wrong with the world lol. In MBTI I'm basically Jesus. There's a middle ground to take lol.

[ContractedCriminalboy]

My type is literally H*tl*r and whatever else is wrong with the world lol. In MBTI I'm basically Jesus. There's a middle ground to take lol.

Haven't met an EIE who didn't have a swastika somewhere in their possession.

But I'd say MBTI tends to present intuitive types positively, overly so often times, and sensing types somewhat negatively, while Socionics is very good at showing why every type sucks in their own special way

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Haven't met an EIE who didn't have a swastika somewhere in their possession.

now you've met one

[ContractedCriminalboy]

now you've met one

Give it time....

[lkdhf qkb]

Am I being overly sensitive then? Lol I can’t believe nobody else sees this.

Could you go more into detail about what you mean?
I'm curious, would you say that my post above counts as intuitive circle jerking? (From my perspective, I was just building on someone else's joke.)
Or are you talking about rants where people go into "sensors are stupid" discourse ?

I've seen hate from sensors too on the forum, I remember Lolita who always posted stuff about how EIE were crazy and delusional. Maybe it's just about some people wanting to put blame on other people, and using typology for this?

[FreelancePoliceman]

Am I being overly sensitive then? Lol I can’t believe nobody else sees this.

Feel free to point it out or tag me when you see it.

Every type get routinely praised and shit on, but as I’ve said, I haven’t actually seen any statements like “N is better than S” here. I very well could be overlooking something though!

To be clear, I think it’s better that the circlejerk run the “S > N” way; N types need all the help they can get restraining their egos. シ

[Poptart]

While the intuitive circle jerk is less overt on this forum, most users graduated from MBTI to socionics, and I believe some underlying attitudes persist here.

[MissDucki]

Hey just a tip you can just camouflage as an MBTI NT by being an asshole and slightly more pedantic than usual. Also mention that your hobby is reading science or philosophy and you’ll be alright! You can throw some rants here and there about how you can’t deal with stupid people around you too. Do this and you’ll do great. It’s tough out there I know

INTJ - add chess as a hobby + what is love?? I don’t need that. I have a heart of stone.

Imight do this for an experiment on a new account lol. I’ve already branded myself as ISFJ on my own account if you go back to old posts. Plus I don’t browse that side of Reddit anyways. Usually it’s my beauty subreddits, animals, or Starbucks lol

It fucked with my self esteem a little bit too cause it’s pretty rampant across alllllll mbti forums. I started young too when I was about 15 and was in it for about 7 years. Like yeah I’m a dumb sensor who is just superficial who doesn’t understandddddddd what’s it like to think and feel deeply. Believe what you want to believe what you want Jan.