something from my homework (descriptions!)

[implied]

awesome. we have to give the myers-briggs types (and a lot of other traits) of these imaginary students. check these out. i've already answered them, but i thought it was amusing/fun anyhow.

1) Michael: Michael loves French (German, Spanish) class because he loves to talk. He can’t wait to tell you all about himself and his friends, family, etc. He loves to do skits and will often make up extra dialogue on the spur of the moment. When he sees you in the hall, he always says Bonjour!/Hola!/Guten tag! instead of hello. His notebook, however, is a mess, and he does not do well on the written tests. His oral work, while expansive, is full of errors. He is so enthusiastic, you can’t help but like him. He is always coming up before class to ask you questions about France or to tell you that he ate at La Madeleine restaurant. He wants to go on the student trip to France during Spring Break. To your surprise, a review of his grades shows that he is barely passing the class. (20 pts.)

2) Laura: Laura makes the highest grades on your Spanish (German, French) tests. She is extremely well organized and always gets 100% on her notebook. She sits up front and copies down everything that is on the board and most of what you say. She studies Spanish/Ger/Fren every night and knows the verb conjugations. When you call on her to speak, she takes her time answering to be sure she has the correct answer. She does not particularly like group work or skits, although she will do everything that is expected. Sometimes, during group work, you notice that Laura is answering all of the questions without giving anyone else a chance. The others don’t mind because she rarely makes a mistake. She also wants to go on the trip to Mexico/Germany/France over Spring Break. She wants to perfect her Spanish/Ger/Fren so she can use it someday when she majors in international business. Laura recently came to you to ask you for the particulars on a creative project that you assigned the class, a picture collage of an emotion. She was a little frustrated because you did not tell the class which emotion to use, how many pictures were required or how big the poster should be. (20 pts.)

3) Suzanne: Suzanne is extremely shy. You can hardly get her to participate in your German (French, Spanish) class at all. She sits in back and hides behind Ben, hoping that you won’t call on her. Although her written work is not bad, she will only give one-word answers when you call on her. During skits, you can hardly hear what she is saying because she speaks so low. When you pass out a test, Suzanne spends a lot of time looking at it before even picking up her pencil. She frequently gets low grades on tests because she does not finish.. She does excel at making her picture vocabulary cards and on drawing her room, her family tree, etc. She does not like group work or games. She has no interest in going on the student trip to Germany, Spain, Canada and she can’t wait until her 2-year language requirement is over with. (20 pts.)

[Creepy-bg]

1. ESFp
2. INTj
3. INFj (mostly because this was exactly me in language classes I've taken ) otherwise I want to say some sort of IXFx

[vague]

I typed them Myers Brigg style.

Michael = ENFP

Laura = ISTJ

Suzzanne = ISFP

[oyburger]

I can almost relate to Laura but not enough to say INTj, ISTj seems appropriate.

[implied]

3. INFj (mostly because this was exactly me in language classes I've taken ) otherwise I want to say some sort of IXFx

oh god, for my sake, don't.


FYI, i'm something between the first two descriptions. either loaded with enthusiasm and trying to speak in the language/absorb completely or overly organized and pedantic. although i don't think i would have as many problems with ambiguity.

i thought ENFp for the first one, INTp/ISTj for the second, and maybe ISFp or something i would be incredibly frustrated with on the last one.

[Creepy-bg]

Haha I lose again...

[implied]

Haha I lose again...

i could see INFj working for the last one as well, if only because it reminds me of an INFj friend of mine. i'm flexible, i think if i were teaching a class and had a student like that though i would just worry that they weren't taking full advantage or getting as much as they could out of it, but if they liked the creative stuff, yeah, that would be great, too.

[Creepy-bg]

I've never been able to make it through more than a month of any lanquage class. I'm not sure what that says about me, but, well, there it is...

[aestrivex]

1- ENFP/ENFp
2- ISTJ/ISTj
3- a little bit more difficult. i'd say ISTP for MBTI just by evaluating the four dichotomies. MBTI ISFP would also be possible but the person seems to have some intellectual capabilities which they dont really use (= MBTI Ti).

for socionics however, the typing is much more difficult. all of Fe, Se, Te, Ti seem impossible. INFj is probably the best fit.

[Rocky]

1) Michael: Michael loves French (German, Spanish) class because he loves to talk. He can’t wait to tell you all about himself and his friends, family, etc. He loves to do skits and will often make up extra dialogue on the spur of the moment. When he sees you in the hall, he always says Bonjour!/Hola!/Guten tag! instead of hello. His notebook, however, is a mess, and he does not do well on the written tests. His oral work, while expansive, is full of errors. He is so enthusiastic, you can’t help but like him. He is always coming up before class to ask you questions about France or to tell you that he ate at La Madeleine restaurant. He wants to go on the student trip to France during Spring Break. To your surprise, a review of his grades shows that he is barely passing the class. (20 pts.)

ENFP

2) Laura: Laura makes the highest grades on your Spanish (German, French) tests. She is extremely well organized and always gets 100% on her notebook. She sits up front and copies down everything that is on the board and most of what you say. She studies Spanish/Ger/Fren every night and knows the verb conjugations. When you call on her to speak, she takes her time answering to be sure she has the correct answer. She does not particularly like group work or skits, although she will do everything that is expected. Sometimes, during group work, you notice that Laura is answering all of the questions without giving anyone else a chance. The others don’t mind because she rarely makes a mistake. She also wants to go on the trip to Mexico/Germany/France over Spring Break. She wants to perfect her Spanish/Ger/Fren so she can use it someday when she majors in international business. Laura recently came to you to ask you for the particulars on a creative project that you assigned the class, a picture collage of an emotion. She was a little frustrated because you did not tell the class which emotion to use, how many pictures were required or how big the poster should be. (20 pts.)

ENFJ

3) Suzanne: Suzanne is extremely shy. You can hardly get her to participate in your German (French, Spanish) class at all. She sits in back and hides behind Ben, hoping that you won’t call on her. Although her written work is not bad, she will only give one-word answers when you call on her. During skits, you can hardly hear what she is saying because she speaks so low. When you pass out a test, Suzanne spends a lot of time looking at it before even picking up her pencil. She frequently gets low grades on tests because she does not finish.. She does excel at making her picture vocabulary cards and on drawing her room, her family tree, etc. She does not like group work or games. She has no interest in going on the student trip to Germany, Spain, Canada and she can’t wait until her 2-year language requirement is over with. (20 pts.)

ISTP, but that can really be any Introverted MBTI, or even an emotionally unstable Extravert.

[aestrivex]

why ENFJ?

[implied]

3) Suzanne: Suzanne is extremely shy. You can hardly get her to participate in your German (French, Spanish) class at all. She sits in back and hides behind Ben, hoping that you won’t call on her. Although her written work is not bad, she will only give one-word answers when you call on her. During skits, you can hardly hear what she is saying because she speaks so low. When you pass out a test, Suzanne spends a lot of time looking at it before even picking up her pencil. She frequently gets low grades on tests because she does not finish.. She does excel at making her picture vocabulary cards and on drawing her room, her family tree, etc. She does not like group work or games. She has no interest in going on the student trip to Germany, Spain, Canada and she can’t wait until her 2-year language requirement is over with. (20 pts.)

ISTP, but that can really be any Introverted MBTI, or even an emotionally unstable Extravert.[/quote]

i considered this and it was honestly my first answer. but i always think about how ISTps are supposed to be interested in culture/history/linguistics, at least per the socionics descriptions (like the subtype, especially.) like, i always think of them as generally being more interested in this sort of thing, if it's interesting.


and, good q from niffweed, why ENFj?

[Rocky]

Lingustics are probablly Intuition, not Sensing.

I originally thought INFJ, until it said, "...during group work, you notice that Laura is answering all of the questions without giving anyone else a chance." INFJs are usually not that outspoken. And I thought NFJ because in MBTI the NFJs are usually the "ideal" type students, the angels; perfect note takers, neat, teacher's pets, good speakers, studious, charming, and so on. The description reminds me quite a bit of my mother actually, or at least how she describes herself as a high school student (always got perfect grades)... and FWIW, her work had them all take an MBTI class, and she got tested as INFJ on one of those things.

[aestrivex]

perhaps, but does that all of that reasoning for INFJ apply to ENFJ as well? i'm not saying it doesn't; i don't really know all that much about MBTI.

ISTJ just seems reasonable given the obvious rationality/Jness of the person and model, by the book student. also the confused about emotions thing doesn't really seem to fit with an Fe type.... does it?

[implied]

Lingustics are probablly Intuition, not Sensing.

i would think the same.

I originally thought INFJ, until it said, "...during group work, you notice that Laura is answering all of the questions without giving anyone else a chance." INFJs are usually not that outspoken. And I thought NFJ because in MBTI the NFJs are usually the "ideal" type students, the angels; perfect note takers, neat, teacher's pets, good speakers, studious, charming, and so on. The description reminds me quite a bit of my mother actually, or at least how she describes herself as a high school student (always got perfect grades)... and FWIW, her work had them all take an MBTI class, and she got tested as INFJ on one of those things.

i can see ENFj more easily now (like, kind of acting know-it-all-ish, not really giving anyone a chance to speak up.) minus the aggressive stuff, i suppose the person could be an INFJ as well.

the organized bit threw me off, though, i never knew ENFjs could be that organized. but then the frustration with creative work and not very clearly defined tasks (how big is the poster? bla bla bla.)

niffweed: i think the person was confused about the requirements, not the emotion thing. maybe confused with an instructor who is like, "okay, here's this thing, this project. do whatever you want with it, i give you totally free reign to do whatever."





i think that description sounds like a much less easily frustrated version of myself. or maybe the ENFP one, because i throw out a lot of that kind of stuff too in classrooms.

[Gilly]

1. ENFp
2. ESTj
3. INFp

[Expat]

1) Michael: Michael loves French (German, Spanish) class because he loves to talk. He can’t wait to tell you all about himself and his friends, family, etc. He loves to do skits and will often make up extra dialogue on the spur of the moment. When he sees you in the hall, he always says Bonjour!/Hola!/Guten tag! instead of hello. His notebook, however, is a mess, and he does not do well on the written tests. His oral work, while expansive, is full of errors. He is so enthusiastic, you can’t help but like him. He is always coming up before class to ask you questions about France or to tell you that he ate at La Madeleine restaurant. He wants to go on the student trip to France during Spring Break. To your surprise, a review of his grades shows that he is barely passing the class. (20 pts.)

ENFP in MBTI, possibly

2) Laura: Laura makes the highest grades on your Spanish (German, French) tests. She is extremely well organized and always gets 100% on her notebook. She sits up front and copies down everything that is on the board and most of what you say. She studies Spanish/Ger/Fren every night and knows the verb conjugations. When you call on her to speak, she takes her time answering to be sure she has the correct answer. She does not particularly like group work or skits, although she will do everything that is expected. Sometimes, during group work, you notice that Laura is answering all of the questions without giving anyone else a chance. The others don’t mind because she rarely makes a mistake. She also wants to go on the trip to Mexico/Germany/France over Spring Break. She wants to perfect her Spanish/Ger/Fren so she can use it someday when she majors in international business. Laura recently came to you to ask you for the particulars on a creative project that you assigned the class, a picture collage of an emotion. She was a little frustrated because you did not tell the class which emotion to use, how many pictures were required or how big the poster should be. (20 pts.)

ESTJ in MBTI, perhaps

3) Suzanne: Suzanne is extremely shy. You can hardly get her to participate in your German (French, Spanish) class at all. She sits in back and hides behind Ben, hoping that you won’t call on her. Although her written work is not bad, she will only give one-word answers when you call on her. During skits, you can hardly hear what she is saying because she speaks so low. When you pass out a test, Suzanne spends a lot of time looking at it before even picking up her pencil. She frequently gets low grades on tests because she does not finish.. She does excel at making her picture vocabulary cards and on drawing her room, her family tree, etc. She does not like group work or games. She has no interest in going on the student trip to Germany, Spain, Canada and she can’t wait until her 2-year language requirement is over with. (20 pts.)

ISTP in MBTI, many possible types in Socionics

[FDG]

ESFp ISTj ISFp

[Gilly]

I really like ESTj for the 2nd one; it doesn't sound energetic enough for a LSI sensory, but also isn't "INTj"-ish enough for me to think of it as a logical sub. She also sounds much more EJ than IJ, IMO. It also reminds me quite a bit of how I picture my mother (LSE Logical) as a young person.

INTp is also a posibility for 3 (although I feel like the only sure thing is IP). And I won't discount either ExFp for 1.

[aestrivex]

INTp is also a posibility for 3 (although I feel like the only sure thing is IP). And I won't discount either ExFp for 1.

Why would INTp be a possibility for 3? 3 sounds like she has about as little Te as one can possibly have. INFp maybe, but I don't think she displays any logical function.

[Eidos]

1) ESFp
2) ISTj
3) ISFp

[Creepy-male]

1) ESFp, the extroversion is extremely obvious, the perceiving side is obvious because of the impulsive lifestyle (bad grades, free spirited and unregimented/organized), the feeling is obvious with the enthusiatic demeanor presented in the description. I think hes not an ENFp though because ENFp's are idealistic and michael sounds like he gets his jollies from intereacting with people, being on the spotlight, making stuff up on the spot, sharing his stories and experiences. Improvisation is an ESFp's best friend.

2) ISTj, she may not be the creepy person or loner thing that some people attribute to introverts, but she definitally is introverted because it says she doesn't care much to be around people or takes charge over people in a group rather than interacting with them. The thinking is obvious because she can't make the collage of an emotion and sounds dense and stiffly lol. She sounds like an Sj because she will do everything that is expected, rather than an Nj's pragmatic approach, she simply does. She also is S because she is hanging off of everything single detail and requirement for the project.

3) ISFp, I think its obvious she is introverted. She is extremely impulsive and hardly cares to participate or be involved in the activity. What she does enjoy is making pictures, and drawing on her room, or artistic things. They could be thinking things like an ISTp, but an ISTp enjoys the thrill of doing, they'd more likely be fidgety and bored in class, crafty in projects, and enjoy sports and such. Also I think Introverted Feelers have a tendency to be shy while introverted thinkers are more likely to be free thinkers and have an easy time writing off their way as simply right, because it is logical.

[eunice]

3) ISFp, I think its obvious she is introverted. She is extremely impulsive and hardly cares to participate or be involved in the activity. What she does enjoy is making pictures, and drawing on her room, or artistic things. They could be thinking things like an ISTp, but an ISTp enjoys the thrill of doing, they'd more likely be fidgety and bored in class, crafty in projects, and enjoy sports and such. Also I think Introverted Feelers have a tendency to be shy while introverted thinkers are more likely to be free thinkers and have an easy time writing off their way as simply right, because it is logical.

Diverting from the main question, if a likely ISFp candidate has all the qualities of an ISFp based on the usual characteristics mentioned on socionics website, but he/she doesn't enjoy making pictures, drawing and doing artistic things (maybe he/she is very bad in drawing so he/she doesn't enjoy indulging in it), can I safely conclude that she is not an ISFp, but possibly some other I*F* types?

[Creepy-male]

Well in my opinion, the ISFp, would be very centered around taking in (Ip)sensations (S) that are pleasurable artistically (F). While another IF would differ in that an intuitive person would like be prone to wonder spiritually or daydream (or anything else fantasy/imagination prone) as opposed to take in the here and now in a more hedonistic sense. A judger of course would be way more organized and centered around doing things and being more opinionated. An ISFp is likely to have reminants of their artistic and creative pursuit thrown all over the place in their room which they are not likely to leave unless they are to indulge in the sensations of life and experience things. A musician ISFp may spend hours on end making music and have music thrown all over their private quarters in a disorganized fashion. A musician ISFj is more likely to be organized and practice oriented, obsessively training their art to prefection but finding it hard to improve creatively or to actually understand the art, they would simply take joy in particapating in something artistic whether they can create and understand art themselves.

This is how I would see it, the not enjoying artistic things could be because they are more abstract/imagination/fantasy/ideal prone because they are an NF, or possibly they are more organized and don't see it as purposeful and organized work if they are an Fj. However if they simply are unable to get anything out of art they are likely more in the thinker element.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[aestrivex]

Diverting from the main question, if a likely ISFp candidate has all the qualities of an ISFp based on the usual characteristics mentioned on socionics website, but he/she doesn't enjoy making pictures, drawing and doing artistic things (maybe he/she is very bad in drawing so he/she doesn't enjoy indulging in it), can I safely conclude that she is not an ISFp, but possibly some other I*F* types?

absolutely not. this places emphasis on some very unreliable arguments such as "ISFps love drawing." there are undoubtedly some ISFps who do not; it is a much broader category than simply that.

[Creepy-male]

The very drive and motivation for an ISFp is to simply create, and specifically artistic things. Experience sensations internally in an emotional way... sure this doesn't have to be done via drawing... but this guy said non artistic things, its hard to imagine an ISFp without art, thats like an INTp without theories, or an INFp without fantasy, or a ISTj without laws.

[aestrivex]

if art can be considered in a very general sense, i suppose that might apply.

[Creepy-male]

art as a means of emotional self expression, i.e. music, poetry, painting, dance, or cooking for example.... not simply just painting.

[FDG]

art as a means of emotional self expression, i.e. music, poetry, painting, dance, or cooking for example.... not simply just painting.

That's being human, not being an ISFp.

[Creepy-male]

yea yea, creating art is part of being human as much as being resourceful and explorative and having ingenuity, but an ISFp will excell much more at the former and the ENTp at the latter.

blah I am shortening this rant

[FDG]

yea yea, creating art is part of being human as much as being resourceful and explorative and having ingenuity, but an ISFp will excell much more at the former and the ENTp at the latter.

Really honestly, are you expecting me to believe within a normal day, lets say you FDG, spent your time composing music, writing poetry, painting a picture, dancing, or cooking a gourmet meal.

Actually, drawing and dancing are activities that I enjoy immensely, and I'm good at the latter. I have written poetry but I suck at it. I don't cook gourmet meals, you're right, because I get extremely bored by the fact that I have to wait for the cooking time. I'm an average cook. I have never tried to compose music but it always sounded like an interesting hobby, and I'm sure that sooner or later I'll try to.

. The difference between the normal human and the ISFp is the ISFp is driven foward with an obsession to create art, they simply can't stop doing it, put them in a dark room and they will still hear music in their head, see pictures etc.... a normal human occasionally may have taste in art or enjoy doing it on an occasion, but the ISFp is constantly creating things that are and can't stop, even in social situations they are likely to care less about thinking aloud in a study group as a opposed to making jokes or things that are

Can't you both think aloud, solve problems, and make jokes? Why do people think that those things are mutually exclusive? Yes, there is indeed an opportunity cost to be considered, but the cost can be compressed at the maximum by packing the greatest amount of energy available in everything you do so that you have time left to joke, hobbies, so on.

[Creepy-male]

lol my point is simply the difference between an ISFp's way of doing such things and your way, your completely ignorant if you think that everyone approaches something like making art the same way simply because they are "human".

[FDG]

lol my point is simply the difference between an ISFp's way of doing such things and your way, your completely ignorant if you think that everyone approaches something like making art the same way simply because they are "human".

Oh yeah, but I have yet to understand which is the different approach, because you haven't mentioned it clearly. I have no doubt there is, of course, otherwise people would be all the same.

[Creepy-male]

lets see.....

from me

---------


The very drive and motivation for an ISFp is to simply create, and specifically artistic things. Experience sensations internally in an emotional way... sure this doesn't have to be done via drawing... but this guy said non artistic things, its hard to imagine an ISFp without art, thats like an INTp without theories, or an INFp without fantasy, or a ISTj without laws.

---------

from the site

---------

Artistic inclinations. The Artistic type is the most inclined of all the types to be involved with the fine arts, music, or literature. They take an artistic approach to all aspects of their lives.

---------

hmm lets see, others may enjoy art but the ISFp constantly is involved in it.... thats pretty much what I said

you claimed being constantly involved in art is less an ISFp thing than a human thing, like art was breathing or something , their are many unartistic people out there actually

[aestrivex]

art as a means of emotional self expression, i.e. music, poetry, painting, dance, or cooking for example.... not simply just painting.

That's being human, not being an ISFp.

false.

[olduser]

for the sake of the homework i'd put isfp. The descriptions give you very basic mtbi stereotypes for ease in typing. I like to think of mtbi as it's own little system. So every detail doesn't work and correspond, if someone exhibits the basic building blocks of an isfp then type them as an mtbi isfp. christ you people would complicate walking if you could.

[FDG]

art as a means of emotional self expression, i.e. music, poetry, painting, dance, or cooking for example.... not simply just painting.

That's being human, not being an ISFp.

false.

This just means that you are not human

[implied]

for the sake of the homework i'd put isfp. The descriptions give you very basic mtbi stereotypes for ease in typing. I like to think of mtbi as it's own little system. So every detail doesn't work and correspond, if someone exhibits the basic building blocks of an isfp then type them as an mtbi isfp. christ you people would complicate walking if you could.

lol, yeah. i am kind of surprised how much has been put into this.

[aestrivex]

This just means that you are not human

indeed; i'm a cybernetic mutant. now run away, before i hack your computer and delete all of your porn.