Visual Identification (V.I.)

[toska]

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[PinKDiGiT18]

Ok, I’m making you my newest forum bestie now.

[Aquamarine]

Lool I'm literally sitting in the same position as the Pi guy with his legs crossed.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Lool I'm literally sitting in the same position as the Pi guy with his legs crossed.

Me too, but honestly I think that's sort of normal for someone chillin in bed with a laptop.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

The SLE example there has 'crazy eyes' tbh.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Compared mine on the same screen. All I can tell is Se>Ne because my eyes don't look dreamy.

EDIT: Eyes look so different from one pic to the next, even when neutral. I'm not sold on VI and probably never will be.

[toska]

That's fine, V.I. isn't something that anyone is going to pick up by looking at a few images and some people are better at recognizing facial signatures than others. This is just to get down a few observations that I've distinguished from typing people.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

That's fine, V.I. isn't something that anyone is going to pick up by looking at a few images and some people are better at recognizing facial signatures than others. This is just to get down a few observations that I've distinguished from typing people.

How seriously do you take it? IDK, I can entertain it for...well, entertainment, but I don't think I could ever take it seriously.

[toska]

I'm still in the process of refining my discernment but it's a casual practice that I've utilized while supplementing other methods for identification. I consider the gaze and facial expression to be devices for communicating our psychological disposition so it's difficult for me to consider one without the other.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I'm still in the process of refining my discernment but it's a casual practice that I've utilized while supplementing other methods for identification. I consider the gaze and facial expression to be devices for communicating our psychological disposition so it's difficult for me to consider one without the other.

Ok, but the eyes will change according to moods as well. One who is thoughtful, reflective, will appear dreamier, while the same person in an alert state will look sharper and more present. The expressions of the eyes resemble the energy state one is in. So, say someone loses a loved one...they're depressed for months...they may look dreamier during all of that time, despite being...IDK, Se-Ti, for example.

[serenaeva]

That's fine, V.I. isn't something that anyone is going to pick up by looking at a few images and some people are better at recognizing facial signatures than others. This is just to get down a few observations that I've distinguished from typing people.

Yeah. A lot of people simply cannot assimilate it properly and dismiss it because of it, but when it comes to a lot of the people i've started VI typing in my server (without knowing what they self-type as) turn out to self-type the type they looked to me. It's too often accurate for it to be entirely dismissed.

[qaz00]

Ok, but the eyes will change according to moods as well. One who is thoughtful, reflective, will appear dreamier, while the same person in an alert state will look sharper and more present. The expressions of the eyes resemble the energy state one is in. So, say someone loses a loved one...they're depressed for months...they may look dreamier during all of that time, despite being...IDK, Se-Ti, for example.

Types express emotions in different ways, for example happy ESE looks much different than happy ILI, experienced VI typers know how to spot these differences, it's something you can't fake. But it's true that unusual mental states reduce typing accuracy.

[roger557]

This attempt at drawing "rules" for the intuitive art that is VI, looks very "nice" and aesthetic, but I don't think it is accurate or a good idea.

[roger557]

Btw, Sean Bean is ESI-Se.

[toska]

Btw, Sean Bean is ESI-Se.

I'd respectfully disagree with that typing and seeing that you'd type Clint Eastwood ESI-Se rather than SLI-Te, we're likely tracking different patterns for that particular type.

[roger557]

I'd respectfully disagree with that typing and seeing that you'd type Clint Eastwood ESI-Se rather than SLI-Te shows that we're likely tracking different patterns for that particular type.

What he is. He's been typed SLI since forever (I used to type him SLI too), but he is actually a gamma. ESI-Se. As evidence, It makes sense since sergio leone is ILI, that he would employ his activity partner or dual as his muse (in 'spaghetti western' movies).

Very respectfully, I wanted to critique some aspects of your work on socionics as far as I've been able to see, for the sake of propriety and things being correct: your VI/typing ability is deficient. I disagree with about 70% of the typings in your gallery, to the point that it makes me wonder if you truly are EII (a -Ne type which usually has very good VI) or you are actually LSI-Se. Not everything I have to comment is negative, however, as you seem to be an able marketer and good at structuring your material. But, what is the point if it's not accurate? You truly offer almost nothing of value, while creating very aesthetically pleasant and superficially convincing theories, wasting hours of hard work better devoted to other things IMO.

Another point in your favor is that thankfully, you don't seem interested in obtaining revenue from any of your stuff.

[toska]

What he is. He's been typed SLI since forever (I used to type him SLI too), but he is actually a gamma. ESI-Se. As evidence, It makes sense since sergio leone is ILI, that he would employ his activity partner or dual as his muse (in 'spaghetti western' movies).

Very respectfully, I wanted to critique some aspects of your work on socionics as far as I've been able to see, for the sake of propriety and things being correct: your VI/typing ability is deficient. I disagree with about 70% of the typings in your gallery, to the point that it makes me wonder if you truly are EII (a -Ne type which usually has very good VI) or you are actually LSI-Se. Not everything I have to comment is negative, however, as you seem to be an able marketer and good at structuring your material. But, what is the point if it's not accurate? You truly offer almost nothing of value, while creating very aesthetically pleasant and superficially convincing theories, wasting hours of hard work better devoted to other things IMO.

Another point in your favor is that thankfully, you don't seem interested in obtaining revenue from any of your stuff.

I have no interest in justifying what I do, especially when it's not constructive. I'm not sure where the LSI-Se typing is coming from though.

[Sol]

@toska
opposite types are perceived as interesting
so F types would not accented the desciption of T types by boring impressions as: dried, blank (2/3 of traits said by you)
at least, they would also point on positive aspects of T types as smart, thinking and reasonable people, as they are attracted to this

as "boring" are perceived traits similar to own type
this is among examples that your type should be T and not F

nonverbal impressions about dichotomies useful for VI are in Talanov's article

[Adam Strange]

Shortly after deciding that Socionics might have value in choosing my next partner, I encountered the concept of Visual Identification, or VI. Its proponents claimed that you could tell which sociotype a person is by simply looking at them.

In the forum at that time, VI was generally laughed at, because it reeked of phrenology, but I was desperately hoping it was true. If VI worked, then I could theoretically identify Duals on the dating services in an instant, rather than sequentially wasting three months dating some hot prospect, only to eventually discover that she was my Conflictor or my Supervisor or my Supervisee or Mirage or Semi-Dual or, more rarely, my Identical.

I mention these types because they are the ones I normally go for; never a Dual. To me, Duals appear to fall into two categories. They are either ESI-Se who are beautifully out of my league but they look not-too-bright so it’s OK about the “out-of-my-league” part, or they are ESI-Fi who look like they are lost in some inner world, and do I really want to spend all my time with an introspective elf?

Now, after having a few years of experience with ESIs, I see that my thinking about my Duals was coming from ignorance and prejudice, because every single one of them has been pretty terrific, but prior to my learning socionics, they would not have been my first, or even seventh, choice. And VI is what gained me that experience.

So now, I’d say that I can identify Duals about 90% of the time, just by looking at them. This applies to other types, too, but with a lower success rate. There seem to be certain faces that clearly belong to a type, and then there are people of that type whose faces are less identifiable, and I can’t immediately place them into any particular sociotype category.

Such was the case with a couple of males whom I know. One guy runs a steel warehouse, and the other guy runs a middle-eastern restaurant in town. Looking at them, I had no idea which type they were, but I think I’ve got both their types now.

The steel warehouse guy I’ve talked to at length, and it gradually became clear that he had the characteristics of a gruff ESI. The thing that made him stand out was that he seemed to particularly like me, which is not common in my business acquaintances. I mean, he seemed to try to initiate and prolong our conversations. It was just by a little, but it was a stable reaction to me. He likes me, and he has no reason to like me that I can tell.
Once, I went in there to buy some steel and my day had started with some bad news and I’m sure my face reflected this, and the steel guy took it personally, until I went out of my way to talk to him about nothing, and then he was OK. This is a guy who lives by his values and interpersonal relationships.

The other guy, Ali, owns a great restaurant in town and he’s always busy but he has always (for twenty years) greeted me briefly, personally, and he doesn’t do that to other patrons. It’s almost as if he finds something about me to be necessary, but he’s afraid to push it, so he keeps the greetings brief.*
Yesterday, I was buying food there for takeout from this new girl, a tall, thin, blonde, 30 year-old standard ESI at the cash register, and Ali spotted me and came over. He motioned me into the anteroom so we could talk privately, and he started telling me that his business, after two years of Covid, had finally turned a corner and he finally had some stability now. I thought, WTF? We’ve said fewer than ten words per year to each other, and now I’m his Godfather, but then I just listened to him. He went on about how he had two bad employees, but they were gone now.
I sympathized. I said that hiring is the most important thing a guy can do, because a bad hire doesn’t mean just one problem, it means that one bad hire wrecks the entire business for everyone else.
Ali looked at me like he was just hearing this fact for the first time.
I said that he should hire more people like the woman at the cash register. She might not be great at money issues, but she does her tasks immediately and she’s faithful to the business and she cares about people. Also, she lives by the contract, and once she signs it, she puts on the harness and just plows.
Ali was frankly staring at me now. “That’s a perfect description of her.”
“Yeah,” I said. I didn’t add that he should pay her more because she was worth it but she’d never ask for a raise. I know his pay structure from talking to his previous employees and it’s both generous and equitable.
I continued, “She’s exactly the kind of woman I’m looking for. I’d marry her but I’m way too old for her.”
Ali laughed. Yes, he thought. I’m way too old for her.
... Convention is a happiness-killer.

There is only one sociotype who listens closely when I speak, and who goes out of their way to talk to me. Ali is ESI.

*Someone said that Extroverts can’t see their Introverted Duals, and introverted Duals think that their Extroverted Duals are way out of their reach. This is sad, but in my experience, true. Unless you have learned better.

[theum nathair]

I said that he should hire more people like the woman at the cash register. She might not be great at money issues, but she does her tasks immediately and she’s faithful to the business and she cares about people. Also, she lives by the contract, and once she signs it, she puts on the harness and just plows.
Ali was frankly staring at me now. “That’s a perfect description of her.”
“Yeah,” I said. I didn’t add that he should pay her more because she was worth it but she’d never ask for a raise. I know his pay structure from talking to his previous employees and it’s both generous and equitable.
I continued, “She’s exactly the kind of woman I’m looking for. I’d marry her but I’m way too old for her.”
Ali laughed. Yes, he thought. I’m way too old for her.
... Convention is a happiness-killer.

lol, I can see now why people think you a beta type. Whence this attitude of superiority? You might be delighted to shag a much younger woman, but could you really satisfy an ESI's need for human connection when you think of her in terms of a farm beast? The bloke as well, he sounds like a sop to your ego. Calm down mate... the pangs of ageing aren't type related