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Thread: lol I'm an ISTP now

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    Default lol I'm an ISTP now

    Just for shits and giggles I took a 16types personality mbti-ish test online and got something called a Virtuoso? ISTp-T subtype

    haha I found it interesting- I related to some things about how Virtuosos can ignore boundaries too much and be provocative. And I've definitely told insensitive jokes before. And the mechanic thing sorta- I would pursue that more but I'm clearly a feeler so it made me laugh that I got a thinking type. Manly logical thinking types mmmm.

    I guess this means @Kim and I are duals after all? Come on baby we always knew it was true.

    https://www.16personalities.com/istp-personality

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    Hate to break it ya @BandD but Virtuosos are acutally ISTj in socionics. The Logistician is the ISTp in socionics. The 16 personality types plays on MBTI and theyre system is a little different. They separate types by SP's, SJ's, NT's, and NF's. Weird looking back to old system now but yeah they do it very differently. Either way welcome to the manly thinking type

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Hate to break it ya @BandD but Virtuosos are acutally ISTj in socionics. The Logistician is the ISTp in socionics. The 16 personality types plays on MBTI and theyre system is a little different. They separate types by SP's, SJ's, NT's, and NF's. Weird looking back to old system now but yeah they do it very differently. Either way welcome to the manly thinking type
    ^ This. @BandD I hate to break it to you but you are beta AGAIN, it is both a curse and a gift though

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    Yeah I know the j/p thing is switched in socionics I just like being nice to Kim. <3

    And yeah so flames is my dual than. <3

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    I got ESTP-A in the last 16personalities test, which is consistent with Socionics SLE. Honestly, I think the test is basically refurbished Big 5 test. I'm also SCUEN in the Big 5.

    the16personalities.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    there should be no j/p switch. only newbs j/p switch.
    MBTI ISTJ has Si base, Te creative, Fi HA and Ne at the bottom.

    I think MBTI and socionics don't have a certain correlation. For example, MBTI ISTP can be both LSI or SLI. They can even be some other type. Because tests always don't give proper results. Otherwise, there would not be typing services.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    smh.
    Nah, you know I am right

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    The mbti test is based off letter preferences, not functions, so there is no j/p switch

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    Maybe if we develop all our functions we become a super ‘super-ego’ version of ourselves For better or worse BandD

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    The mistake in 2/4 dichotomies is not rare for dichotomy tests.

    Not just a test. I saw people which knew typology theory for years and mistaked in own types on >= 2 dichotomies. Those people would never got positive IR checking with significant number of people IRL.
    IEI thinking own type as SLI, EIE as LSE, ESI as ILI, ...

    Also were cases when people changed opinions about own types with such difference after more than 1 year when they read the theory.
    @aster, @SGF

    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Virtuosos are acutally ISTj in socionics
    ISTP is SLI. P fits only to irrationality
    MBTI texts have the _mistake_ in functional model which contradicts to Jung. practically they identify types _mainly_ by correct dichotomies, so get more of correct types
    notations with small j/p is nonsense. same as to think that to have dominating P trait is possibly with dominating J function
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Usually SLI-Si=ISTP SLI-Te=ISTJ LSI-Ti=ISTJ LSI-Se=ISTP (not always, for example Tx subtypes have a chance of being N in MBTI, Xe being E etc.). Socionics is mostly cognitive and MBTI is mostly behavioral, these systems focus on different parts of personality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    MBTI ISTJ has Si base, Te creative
    That doesn't say much, mbti get functions in a strange way for starters. It thinks Te is about achievement so if you get ISTJ based on that you might be also a socionics ISTj because in socionics achievement is an Se trait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    MBTI ISTJ has Si base, Te creative, Fi HA and Ne at the bottom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lincatrope View Post
    That doesn't say much, mbti get functions in a strange way for starters. It thinks Te is about achievement so if you get ISTJ based on that you might be also a socionics ISTj because in socionics achievement is an Se trait.
    Not to speak of the fact that they get Si wrong. They just use the same label as Jung but they have changed the content. And the type names often indicate no J/P switch. For example, calling the ISTJ "inspector" and ISFJ "defender".

    MBTI is broken and I see no meaning in using it. We should be interested in the real functions that Jung discovered and not in misunderstandings and labelling some behaviour as a "function".
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincatrope View Post
    That doesn't say much, mbti get functions in a strange way for starters. It thinks Te is about achievement so if you get ISTJ based on that you might be also a socionics ISTj because in socionics achievement is an Se trait.
    That is about Te and achivement is one aspect of Te, but MBTI SLI also values Si, Ne, Fi.

    In socionics, some aspects of IEs overlap with each other. So it is not a surprise that some aspects of IEs can overlap with each other in both systems.

    ISTJ can be SLI or LSI, it can even be some other type. There is no direct correlation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Not to speak of the fact that they get Si wrong. They just use the same label as Jung but they have changed the content. And the type names often indicate no J/P switch. For example, calling the ISTJ "inspector" and ISFJ "defender".
    Again this is one way of looking things, I am not saying this is wrong, but this is not truth either.

    Because this approach only focuses how MBTI and socionics directly correlates.

    It completely disregards the valued functions. J/P switch can also be explained by Pe, Pi ego.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    MBTI is broken and I see no meaning in using it. We should be interested in the real functions that Jung discovered and not in misunderstandings and labelling some behaviour as a "function".
    I am saying there is no direct correlation. You can gather lots of info to validate how ISTJ can be LSI or SLI. If anyone says that it definitely correlates with one particular type though, then it means lots of counter information is disregarded.

    Both systems are different.

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    There are some LSI who are MBTI ISTP (i.e. Putin) but sometimes, LSI being MBTI ISTP is just fucking ridiculous (i.e. Joseph Stalin). Nobody in the MBTI community thinks Stalin is an ISTP in MBTI.

    To be honest, I agreed that ISTP should be SLI and ISTJ should be LSI as you can't be a irrational type and a judger and likewise, a rational type and perceiver. The MBTI definition should honestly be disregarded and not grounded in reality.

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    lol how is this thread getting this much attention?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    ISTJ being LSI or SLI is like saying a cat in one system can be a cat or dog in the another system. Mathematically/logically that makes no sense.

    MBTI is a ghetto playstation

    Socionics is a playstation 2

    Both systems are describing the same archetypes (or end result). Don't look at the functions when comparing.
    I don't want to repeat myself. MBTI ISTJ has valued, Si,Te,Fi,Ne. If it is the same archetype, then why eyes wide shut when it comes to this.

    You can be short in one country and be tall in another. You can be different things in different systems for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    I think u r trolling.

    Yes, we understand that MBTI ISTJ has valued Si Te... But it SHOULD BE Ti Se. (But the archetypes are correct). Hence why we are saying the functions are broken for introverts.
    But it isn't built that way. IEs are important because they are atomic parts of the system, if anyone thinks that they are wrong, then as you said, that means system is broken, because broken system can't define individuals under right labels. There is no point of insisting broken system correlates with another system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    ur trying to revive frankenstein when frankenstein is already dead. that is where u fail
    You are trying equate frankenstein with the living, that is where you fail..

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    Honestly I don’t understand why two types can’t share similar traits. Why can’t Te and Se be “achievement oriented”?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    fine. tall dude can be short in the short dude's country. i guess.
    tall dude can be short in taller dude's country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Honestly I don’t understand why two types can’t share similar traits. Why can’t Te and Se be “achievement oriented”?
    They can be. Their core reasons are different though, that's why I am saying everywhere that some aspects, traits of IEs overlap with each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    "5 foot guy is taller than 7 foot guy bc they're in different countries"

    -myresearch
    LOL. This is a voluntary admission that says you don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    No. You're not getting away this time.

    Perfect the analogy so it logically makes sense to what you're talking about.

    You can't hun
    I can hun.

    5 foot guy can be tall in a tribe where the average height is 4 foot for a guy.

    Then 5 foot guy goes to another tribe where the average height is 6 foot for a guy, then he is short there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    And keeping the same parameters. What about the 6 foot guy
    If average height is 6 foot, he is average ): /:

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    I’m curious how many of you started with socionics then MBTI cause it makes a difference in viewing the systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    but 5ft dude could never be average, right
    Not in those tribes, but he can find a tribe where average height is 5ft, then he can be finally average, if that is what he is looking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    Checkmate, @myresearch

    Checkmating the dark sided king as the game's highest stage for the win is always juggernaut overthrowing with empires tumbled and dominoes shattered for the initiation of the computer revolution and angelic earth binding silver vortex!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    Checkmate, @myresearch
    Can't be checkmated, not designed that way if I ever get close, I will just change the board.

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    I started with Keirsey and moved on to MBTI to find out more about INFJs because I was chasing one. In the course of that slow-motion crash, I learned more about Socionics.

    What clinched Socionics for me was Strat's description of LIEs, which was dead-on and a far cry from either Keirsey's description or the MBTI description of ENTJs.

    Also, MBTI said the best match for me would be an ISTP (LSI). Well, I tried two and neither worked out. That kind of shakes your faith.

    The ESIs that I've met haven't worked out either, but for completely different reasons. Non-Sociotype reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    That is about Te and achivement is one aspect of Te
    Only in mbti like I said, but in Jungian terms that doesn't make sense, Te is just logic. No wonder an SEE or SLE in socionics would often be mistyped as an ENTJ or ESTJ in mbti.

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    congrats on the level up

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    This test seems to be related to big five.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post

    I guess this means @Kim and I are duals after all? Come on baby we always knew it was true.

    https://www.16personalities.com/istp-personality
    This sort of fiery gay-straight push and pull can only be pulled off by contraries I think. ISTPs are many things, but fierce?
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post

    I am saying there is no direct correlation. You can gather lots of info to validate how ISTJ can be LSI or SLI. If anyone says that it definitely correlates with one particular type though, then it means lots of counter information is disregarded.

    Both systems are different.
    I think you are giving too much credit to mbti by saying that it is a "different system". They simply didn't understand Jung and got lost. People can of course see that the 16 types exist in real life, so many are impressed by mbti and are not able to spot the mistakes.

    Both socionics and mbti are trying to capture the famous Jungian types. They both use jungian terminology and the type names are almost the same.

    The types is such a fundamental phenomenon and they don't vary. We who use socionics should know by now the correct understanding of the functions and types. We have so much more to go by than mbti. We can actually test this. The types have to be the same, because it's not like mbti has some secret understanding that socionics lacks. It's pretty obvious that they just didn't understand Jung very well and were not able to use ITR to refine their understanding.

    But I prefer not to compare with mbti at all. It's broken. There are in this forum people who still use mbti as their basic conceptualization of the types. That way they never really learn the types.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I think you are giving too much credit to mbti by saying that it is a "different system". They simply didn't understand Jung and got lost. People can of course see that the 16 types exist in real life, so many are impressed by mbti and are not able to spot the mistakes.

    Both socionics and mbti are trying to capture the famous Jungian types. They both use jungian terminology and the type names are almost the same.

    The types is such a fundamental phenomenon and they don't vary. We who use socionics should know by now the correct understanding of the functions and types. We have so much more to go by than mbti. We can actually test this. The types have to be the same, because it's not like mbti has some secret understanding that socionics lacks. It's pretty obvious that they just didn't understand Jung very well and were not able to use ITR to refine their understanding.

    But I prefer not to compare with mbti at all. It's broken. There are in this forum people who still use mbti as their basic conceptualization of the types. That way they never really learn the types.
    Agreed except the bold part because they assign different IEs to different types. As you said, it is better to not compare it with socionics.

    There are very different approaches and definitions used by different socionists. There are a lot of things that can cause misconceptions and some confusion. I think this will increase if we start to make direct correlations with a broken system.
    Last edited by myresearch; 08-12-2021 at 09:19 PM.

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