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Thread: How to Catch a Delta NF or ST

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    Default How to Catch a Delta NF or ST

    I did not forget you Delta's! We finish this small little journey with a bang on how to catch the Delta's. I hope that these threads can help bring some insight for all the types on trying to get closer with each other and understand one another a little better.

    So my final question is: How do you catch a Delta NF or ST?

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    For SLI, lower hit points via Fe attacks which will also have a paralyze effect until they drop to red then throw a great ball.

    Celebrate your victory
    snorlax-59inch-thailand-sep302020-2.jpg

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    You can't catch Deltas, only tame them for that, you need to give them the two basic elements of our universe : space and time.

    I've read somewhere that beta is the quadra that's the fastest to mobilize and unite. Made sense to me that the opposite quadra is the last to unite. Valuing both introverted "social" functions (Si-Fi) makes Deltas very subjective in their tastes and feelings. It's hard to get synchronized and harmonious if both partners are too concerned with their own impressions, emotional reactions and values. It's easier to connect with Te and just run errands for each other.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Deltas have to be ready and accepting to be caught. For me it was a mission. I want to be in a relationship otherwise I just want friendship. I met my good SLI friend on the subway. We just started talking and we connected on a deep level and we are still friends after 9 years
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    You can't catch Deltas, only tame them for that, you need to give them the two basic elements of our universe : space and time.

    I've read somewhere that beta is the quadra that's the fastest to mobilize and unite. Made sense to me that the opposite quadra is the last to unite. Valuing both introverted "social" functions (Si-Fi) makes Deltas very subjective in their tastes and feelings. It's hard to get synchronized and harmonious if both partners are too concerned with their own impressions, emotional reactions and values. It's easier to connect with Te and just run errands for each other.
    I don’t agree with the taming part. It’s about coming together of souls who are meant to be
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Something an SLI once wrote:

    How to approach SLI in the wild.


    1. Use cautious and slow gestures.


    2. Communicate clearly and directly. State your purpose or at least show respect of physical boundaries. "Do you mind if I sit beside you?"
    Note: SLI might say yes but later mean no. You have to be constantly alert to this change of demeanour.


    3. Pay attention to SLI physical state. If it starts tapping it's fingers or wringing its hands you should increase psychological distance. Do not close psychological distance too quickly or you may be attacked.


    4. You should reinforce your intention to the SLI at this point so it doesn't get paranoid about why you are suddenly in its personal sphere "I thought you looked interesting and wanted to talk to you” etc. SLI are good at keeping up conversation. Never ask an SLI you just met what it's feeling.


    5. If the SLI seems relaxed enough, you might try holding out some peanuts, almonds or dried fish in your hand. Make sure you avert your gaze and don't bring your hand directly to the SLI, this might appear to be a show of dominance and will activate the SLI 3D Se, making it antagonistic and defensive.


    6. If the SLI isn't responsive you should cautiously back away. Don't turn your back to it, but simply step slowly and cautiously out of its personal space. Likely you will be unable to approach that specific SLI again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    I don’t agree with the taming part. It’s about coming together of souls who are meant to be
    The two are not mutually exclusive. While coming together, those two 'souls' need to learn to navigate each other's sensibilities, traumas, learn to empathize in the right ways, like explorers navigating on uncharted Fi territories. You call it both people 'accepting to be caught'. Getting to know each other that way is what I call taming.

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    Food.

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    The main approch is to be nice and supportive in suggestive and (lesser important) activation functions.
    It's what catches hearts the most.

    People may do not understand this good as it's weak and lesser conscious regions.

    As it's weak regions, direct criticism or advices may be not accepted there good until a human starts to trust you enough, to perceive as closer than random one. Duals are not an exception.
    People should be treated and partly perceived as children in weak regions. Useful to act more tender and lesser directly. It's easier to scary or annoy them by being other. The more such problem is with weak nonvalued regions which should have minimum of advices, be avoided for criticism and demands where possibly.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    The SLI caught me, so I don't know what to say. I was minding my own business. He refused to hook up with the EIE and then caught my eye.
    Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."

    -Carl Jung

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    I'm a tourist in the land of my own being Megatrop's Avatar
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    For IEE, I'd say be very touchy and flirtatious when they are not into you, and if they give any signal of interest, BACK OFF and pull away. That will make them want to chase even if they don't have real feelings. If they seem to lose hope, give some hints that you are interested and then pull away again.

    That's bullshit but that's how you can attract an IEE

    We get bored easily and like challenge

    Edit: also try to have a good visual impression, wear good fit clothing, unfortunately we are highly suggestive to physical beauty but you don't have to show your pieces, it has to be something subtle. Wear matching colors (I don't know much about it, figure out yourself) and possibly wear make up from time to time.
    Also look somewhat independent and happy by yourself. Delta Irrational couple is very independent from each other compared to other dual couples, and that's what we want in a partner
    Last edited by Megatrop; 07-28-2021 at 07:08 PM.
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    My experience with Deltas. I'm being serious ...be approachable. *hides from a EII*

    Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."

    -Carl Jung

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    The main approch is to be nice and supportive in suggestive and (lesser important) activation functions.
    It's what catches hearts the most.

    People may do not understand this good as it's weak and lesser conscious regions.

    As it's weak regions, direct criticism or advices may be not accepted there good until a human starts to trust you enough, to perceive as closer than random one. Duals are not an exception.
    People should be treated and partly perceived as children in weak regions. Useful to act more tender and lesser directly. It's easier to scary or annoy them by being other. The more such problem is with weak nonvalued regions which should have minimum of advices, be avoided for criticism and demands where possibly.
    What does that mean for you?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    My experience with Deltas. I'm being serious ...be approachable. *hides from a EII*

    Why are you hiding from me lol I don’t bite especially electronically
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I mean classical INFJ sticks her neck out to help ESTJ who is impressed by her kindness and willingness to be selfless!

    Love
    Affection
    Friendship
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-28-2021 at 07:42 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Something an SLI once wrote:
    point number one: We have lost 98.9 % of Ne peeps
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    point number one: We have lost 98.9 % of Ne peeps
    SLI : "How to approach SLI in the wild"

    Meanwhile Ne doms:


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    I'm a tourist in the land of my own being Megatrop's Avatar
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    [IEE] Call them to go to a japanese love hotel with you, but say it's just for fun, and they won't think you are trying anything particularly sexual, and will go just for the fun of going down the water slide

    The main girl in the video is IEE
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    Delta NFs can be caught by expressing genuine interest in their weird ideas.

    Delta STs I still don’t know. If anyone has any tips I’m all ears.

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    It's difficult, because most of us are scared...



    and have abandonment anxiety.



    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    It's difficult, because most of us are scared...and have abandonment anxiety.
    When you say us, you mean SLIs, delta STs or deltas in general?

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    I have abandonment anxiety too. I didn't have it until I tried to date SLI girls and they are just too confusing. Like the one who tried to go on dates with me, kissed me, then ghosted me saying she was 'confused'. Or the one that would call me, use me for emotional labor, talking for hours about her problems and then stood me up making me travel to places for dates. Several other stories.

    Same happened to a EII friend of mine. Her LSE romantic interest would tell her everything that happened in his life, opened emotionally, while trying to get back with his ex. She went all the way to drive him to his exe's place to 'make up' with her. Delta NFs are too naive...

    I'm exhausted. I don't want to 'Fi caretake' anymore and I'm not buying the whole "I'm a sensitive wallflower so you need to make me feel comfortable or I'll shun you" delta ST entitlement anymore. I'm done getting hurt and used and I won't let emotional leeches get near me anymore. STs have to learn to sort out their lives themselves.
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 08-08-2021 at 11:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    It's difficult, because most of us are scared.... and have abandonment anxiety.
    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I have abandonment anxiety too. I didn't have it until I tried to date SLI girls and they are just too confusing. Like the one who tried to go on dates with me, kissed me, then ghosted me saying she was 'confused'. Or the one that would call me, use me for emotional labor, talking for hours about her problems and then stood me up making me travel to places for dates. Several other stories.

    I'm exhausted. I don't want to 'Fi caretake' anymore and I'm not buying the whole "I'm a sensitive wallflower" ST crap anymore. I'm done getting hurt and used and I won't let emotional leeches get near me anymore. STs have to learn to sort out their lives themselves.
    My SLI ex-wife is Avoidant and her IEE sister was married twice and dated extensively, unsuccessfully, between marriages.

    The ESIs whom I’m meeting all want attention but not a normal, committed relationship.

    It seems to be getting harder and harder to find a Secure partner.

    I sometimes wonder if mankind is nearing the end stage of the Rats of NIMH experiment.

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...e-rats-of-nimh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My SLI ex-wife is Avoidant and her IEE sister was married twice and dated extensively, unsuccessfully, between marriages.

    The ESIs whom I’m meeting all want attention but not a normal, committed relationship.

    It seems to be getting harder and harder to find a Secure partner.

    I sometimes wonder if mankind is nearing the end stage of the Rats of NIMH experiment.

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...e-rats-of-nimh
    I get criticized all the time by my Beta family members and ESE grandmother for my insecure attachment problems. Most of them either married or found their life partners before the age of 20 and think there’s something wrong with me for struggling to make these kinds of connections. They don’t understand just how good they got it, finding someone who was both securely attached and also willing to work through the rough edges.

    So far the guys I’ve fallen for have been an anxious preoccupied, two dismissive avoidants (one of which was my dual ex), and a fearful avoidant. The one guy I dated who had relatively secure attachment was an SLI-Te, and I was too young and stupid to realize what I had.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 08-08-2021 at 05:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    I get criticized all the time by my Beta family members and ESE grandmother for my insecure attachment problems. Most of them either married or found their life partners before the age of 20 and think there’s something wrong with me for struggling to make these kinds of connections. They don’t understand just how good they got it, finding someone who was both securely attached and also willing to work through the rough edges.

    So far the guys I’ve fallen for have been an anxious preoccupied, two dismissive avoidants (one of which was my dual ex), and a fearful avoidant. The one guy I dated who had relatively secure attachment was an SLI-Te, and I was too young and stupid to realize what I had.
    @PinKDiGiT18, finding a good partner is like looking for a place to eat in a strange town during lunch hour. You're on a road with a lot of restaurants and you can't sample them all. You only have so much time to make a decision and so you can only check out so many places, and once you look closely at a place and pass it by, you can't go back.

    There is actually an optimum strategy for making a best decision in cases like these, that gives you the most probably best outcome (not a guaranteed best), and it goes like this:

    Figure out the number of people you are going to interview for the position of SO in the time you have allotted. Maybe it's ten. Then, interview (date) the first 37% (we are assuming you are interviewing Duals), but do not hire (marry) any of them. You are merely trying to discover the quality level of the applicants. Then, continue to interview (date) people, and settle for the next person who is better than the best person you've already interviewed.

    If you could be happy with a wider range of people than just a Secure Dual who matches your enneatype and bathes regularly and has reasonably good table manners, then your interview ratio is not 37% of N, but is rather the square root of N.

    In other words, if you can date ten guys and if you need a Dual, you should interview 3.7 and then get serious. If your standards are a bit lower, you can interview 3.16 guys before you make your final choice.

    https://slate.com/technology/2014/12...e-partner.html

    Good luck! Life is full of surprises and it should not be full of regrets, too.

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    LSE – Help them gain and maintain centre stage. Make your best ideas seem like they originated from them - feed their egos, ignore their rashness and make up plausible excuses for their failures.

    EII – Offer them access to an ashram (metaphorically) and don't bother them when they're meditating. Ignore their distance and coldness because they mean well and want to be those whose opinions are acknowledged.

    IEE – If you love them, set them free. As wayward as they may be, they usually end up back in what they know to be safe harbours – so be a safe harbour.

    SLI – You have to overlook their stern outer shells and their conspiracy theories. Let your weaknesses show because they're suckers for people in distress and they usually have the means and will to protect.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    LSE – Help them gain and maintain centre stage. Make your best ideas seem like they originated from them - feed their egos, ignore their rashness and make up plausible excuses for their failures.

    EII – Offer them access to an ashram (metaphorically) and don't bother them when they're meditating. Ignore their distance and coldness because they mean well and want to be those whose opinions are acknowledged.

    IEE – If you love them, set them free. As wayward as they may be, they usually end up back in what they know to be safe harbours – so be a safe harbour.

    SLI – You have to overlook their stern outer shells and their conspiracy theories. Let your weaknesses show because they're suckers for people in distress and they usually have the means and will to protect.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Interestingly, I agree more or less with the perceiving pair but am not quite so sure about the judging pair. I need to think about that more.

    For both STs, I would add that they tend to like knowing you care on at least some level about other people / have a moral center (though it doesn't have to be the same moral alignment as the rest of society - in fact, it might be more appealing if it's a bit different). Also, offer them a safe place to express their messy emotions (though you have to be prepared to actually handle them - don't do it if you don't want the mess).

    Both NFs like having a sense of safety and stability.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    ...........Both NFs like having a sense of safety and stability.
    ....which a spiritual retreat usually provides - but in a different sense from what a safe harbour provides.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    ....which a spiritual retreat usually provides - but in a different sense from what a safe harbour provides.
    I guess in the sense of I'd like a space that's safe and comfortable enough for me to focus on my personal growth. I don't need to be returning; I want to abide. Like that?
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I guess in the sense of I'd like a space that's safe and comfortable enough for me to focus on my personal growth. I don't need to be returning; I want to abide. Like that?
    EIIs don't typically venture out into the storm or see any point in it where IEEs tend to be metaphorically storm chasers.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Also, offer them a safe place to express their messy emotions (though you have to be prepared to actually handle them - don't do it if you don't want the mess
    Delta STs and their repressed emotional clutter:


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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    When you say us, you mean SLIs, delta STs or deltas in general?
    What the Subject/OP says, so Deltas in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I have abandonment anxiety too. I didn't have it until I tried to date SLI girls and they are just too confusing. Like the one who tried to go on dates with me, kissed me, then ghosted me saying she was 'confused'. Or the one that would call me, use me for emotional labor, talking for hours about her problems and then stood me up making me travel to places for dates. Several other stories.

    Same happened to a EII friend of mine. Her LSE romantic interest would tell her everything that happened in his life, opened emotionally, while trying to get back with his ex. She went all the way to drive him to his exe's place to 'make up' with her. Delta NFs are too naive...

    I'm exhausted. I don't want to 'Fi caretake' anymore and I'm not buying the whole "I'm a sensitive wallflower so you need to make me feel comfortable or I'll shun you" delta ST entitlement anymore. I'm done getting hurt and used and I won't let emotional leeches get near me anymore. STs have to learn to sort out their lives themselves.
    Mental derangement and/or lack of character has little or nothing to do with Socionics (or personality typologies in general), you know.

    If you're consistently getting into unhealthy relationships, you either have a mental issue/disorder yourself or doing something to attract others who do.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Mental derangement and/or lack of character has little or nothing to do with Socionics (or personality typologies in general), you know.
    I guess you're talking about the delta STs in my story? I don't think either of those people were mentally deranged, nor am I or my friend, just immature and maybe a bit insecure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    If you're consistently getting into unhealthy relationships, you either have a mental issue/disorder yourself or doing something to attract others who do.
    Overly simplified explanation. I wasn't saying that I constantly get into unhealthy relationships, only that I felt emotionally used by delta STs, which is a sentiment some other delta NF I know felt.
    Where do you think your abandonment issues come from? What are you scared of exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Interestingly, I agree more or less with the perceiving pair but am not quite so sure about the judging pair. I need to think about that more.
    Yeah, their rational descriptions aren't very palatable. The irrational ones are so-so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    For both STs, I would add that they tend to like knowing you care on at least some level about other people / have a moral center (though it doesn't have to be the same moral alignment as the rest of society - in fact, it might be more appealing if it's a bit different).
    For me it's just about having and acting with a certain level of integrity, compassion, and fairness. Not necessarily about going out of one's way to help or please others at the expense of personal sacrifice, but more about being respectful, kind, and considerate, unless someone really deserves otherwise, in which case ignore/guard/protect before you get overly upset and bother to act in offence. Personally, I do get upset more than I'd like, but I do try to minimize the side-effects of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Also, offer them a safe place to express their messy emotions (though you have to be prepared to actually handle them - don't do it if you don't want the mess).
    The way you worded this sounds like a calculated transaction (almost like psychopathic behavior) which goes against my desire and expectation that people would act naturally and spontaneously to my emotional turmoils and ethical concerns, meaning if you have what it takes to understand and help me sift through things you will do it without needing to prepare or be "careful" about it. That being said, I don't think I have many messy emotions at all, I just tend to develop deep sentiments about things and people over time, which tend to trigger emotional reactions which can sometimes be strong or somewhat conflicting, but I'm not sure if I'd call them messy.

    Some level of dispassionate outside perspective, reassurance, encouragement, and/or different ideas of handling problematic situations tends to calm me down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Both NFs like having a sense of safety and stability.
    Last edited by Park; 08-24-2021 at 11:52 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I guess you're talking about the delta STs in my story? I don't think either of those people were mentally deranged, nor am I or my friend, just immature and maybe a bit insecure.
    Yes, sorry, these things, too. But this all really falls under the same category of undeveloped or bad character.


    Overly simplified explanation. I wasn't saying that I constantly get into unhealthy relationships, only that I felt emotionally used by delta STs, which is a sentiment some other delta NF I know felt.
    I was just saying that if you're experiencing these emotional reactions on a constant basis there is an underlying issue there, most likely a psychological one, and something you might be able to identify and fix over time. No relationship is perfectly balanced, but healthy ones strive to become as close to that as possible.


    Where do you think your abandonment issues come from? What are you scared of exactly?
    Past personal experiences and observations of other people's relationships. I am naturally cynical and anticipate being duped in one way or another, which prevents me from opening up and trusting someone or investing too much into any relationship. And it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    I was just saying that if you're experiencing these emotional reactions on a constant basis there is an underlying issue there, most likely a psychological one, and something you might be able to identify and fix over time. No relationship is perfectly balanced, but healthy ones strive to become as close to that as possible.
    Yes, I think it has to do with my tendency to want to earn the affection of close people, which is very hard on me because it's very difficult to see when a SLI likes you. It feels like they are forever distant, even when they are close, you know, like inside. Do you know what I mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Past personal experiences and observations of other people's relationships. I am naturally cynical and anticipate being duped in one way or another, which prevents me from opening up and trusting someone or investing too much into any relationship. And it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    I can relate, I regularly feel the same. I guess relationships always need a dosis of faith and trust to start; I like to think of trusting as a choice one makes despite one's fears
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 08-24-2021 at 01:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    The way you worded this sounds like a calculated transaction (almost like psychopathic behavior) which goes against my desire and expectation that people would act naturally and spontaneously to my emotional turmoils and ethical concerns, meaning if you have what it takes to understand and help me sift through things you will do it without needing to prepare or be "careful" about it. That being said, I don't think I have many messy emotions at all, I just tend to develop deep sentiments about things and people over time, which tend to trigger emotional reactions which can sometimes be strong or somewhat conflicting, but I'm not sure if I'd call them messy.

    Some level of dispassionate outside perspective, reassurance, encouragement, and/or different ideas of handling problematic situations tends to calm me down.
    Everyone has messy emotions, not just Delta STs. It's rare (certainly not impossible, though) that anyone has them all already worked through completely. And life just keeps happening, which means there's always more to be had. "Messy" is a purposefully broad and vague term, btw.

    If I listened and was a sounding board to everyone who I cared about as much as they wanted/needed that's all I'd be doing and more. I HAVE to have some boundaries, which requires "calculation" or at least some rational thought. "Is this the best thing to be doing right now, for both of us?" Yes, often I have to pass up listening opportunities because it would be harder on me than I can afford. Over the years I've gotten stricter in terms of how much I let myself give away in that sense; the cost has become more obvious. (Also, I've realized more how with certain people simply listening and affirming too much is detrimental to them - it can just enable them to continue self- and other-destructive patterns. Boundaries can help everyone involved.)

    If that's your criteria for psychopath... well, I guess add that to my resumé. It can go right next to "sociopath," which someone else on here ascribed to me.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Yes, I think it has to do with my tendency to want to earn the affection of close people, which is very hard on me because it's very difficult to see when a SLI likes you.
    "tendency to want to earn the affection of close people" ≠ investing disproportionate amounts of time and energy into relationships that don't pay back (with people who "ghost" and "stand you up," i.e., do not reciprocate)

    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    It feels like they are forever distant, even when they are close, you know, like inside. Do you know what I mean?
    Not really? If they are willingly spending time around and doing things (like small gestures or even just simple pragmatic/logistical stuff) for you over a period of time, they probably like you.

    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I can relate, I regularly feel the same. I guess relationships always need a dosis of faith and trust to start; I like to think of trusting as a choice one makes despite one's fears
    Of course. You need to make room and allow for things to happen. And from the little I know about psychological development, growing up with normal (neurotypical) parents and circle of friends who respect each other's boundaries usually helps with assessing potential in relationships and knowing how to navigate them without them becoming one-sided or unhealthy.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Everyone has messy emotions, not just Delta STs. It's rare (certainly not impossible, though) that anyone has them all already worked through completely. And life just keeps happening, which means there's always more to be had. "Messy" is a purposefully broad and vague term, btw.
    Point taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    If I listened and was a sounding board to everyone who I cared about as much as they wanted/needed that's all I'd be doing and more. I HAVE to have some boundaries, which requires "calculation" or at least some rational thought. "Is this the best thing to be doing right now, for both of us?" Yes, often I have to pass up listening opportunities because it would be harder on me than I can afford.
    Okay, that make sense. If you're naturally inclined to want to listen to people and play the role of a counselor (which many ethical/NF types would be, I guess), then you have to make a conscious effort to limit your intake.

    My comment was in reaction to you suggesting that one should shy away from handling Delta STs "messy emotions" if they were not prepared to handle them. You didn't say out of lack of time or energy, just "if you don't want the mess." But I think I see where you're coming from now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Also, I've realized more how with certain people simply listening and affirming too much is detrimental to them - it can just enable them to continue self- and other-destructive patterns. Boundaries can help everyone involved.
    Hmm... but why would you affirm things you disagree with or you know will lead to destructive behaviors on their end? Just because it might make that person happy at that very moment? You wouldn't be helping them if you did this, and you wouldn't do it if you cared about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    If that's your criteria for psychopath... well, I guess add that to my resumé.
    This made my laugh, but I hope you're not taking it too seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    It can go right next to "sociopath," which someone else on here ascribed to me.
    Let me guess... Maritsa? (Or whatever her weird name was)

    Oh, and hi. I haven't seen you here in a while. Not that I have been spending much time on any social media/forum/outlet type of place lately...
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Hmm... but why would you affirm things you disagree with or you know will lead to destructive behaviors on their end? Just because it might make that person happy at that very moment? You wouldn't be helping them if you did this, and you wouldn't do it if you cared about them.
    It's not always a cut and dried situation, where I just say what I think. Many people resist outside input if it's too direct or not done tactfully. In fact, in some situations I don't see a clear answer or direction. The majority of the time, if I'm listening to the average person, the best bet for them making progress is to come to whatever realization themselves, convince themselves. Sometimes I supply options, but they need to choose. In the context of talking to me, that will more likely happen if I mostly ask questions to flesh out what's going on and use my own opinions sparingly. However, there are some people who can talk about things forever, get to all the "right" conclusions, and still never make progress. The reasons vary (and sometimes never become apparent to me), but at that point me talking with them is pointless for all involved.


    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    This made my laugh, but I hope you're not taking it too seriously.
    It's a little annoying but I have thicker skin than I used to. When I got called that in the past it was used as a way to dismiss or needle me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Let me guess... Maritsa? (Or whatever her weird name was)
    No, it was someone who's name started with an S. I can't even remember exactly who now. I think maybe Cyclops did, too. For both it sort of seemed to come out of the blue to me.

    One time I even brought it up to my therapist, asking if, after our many long and deep conversations, she thought I was a sociopath or psychopath or showed any tendencies. She gave a funny skeptical look and said "....no.... why are you asking?" And I told her and she said, "No." So my brief self-doubt was... brief. (The reason I even asked is sometimes our self-image is skewed or obscured, so I figured I'd ask someone who diagnoses these things professionally.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Oh, and hi. I haven't seen you here in a while. Not that I have been spending much time on any social media/forum/outlet type of place lately...
    Hello! Life changes, evolves... It's comforting when friendly relations reappear even over longer spans of time.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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