Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Truth with a capital T

  1. #1
    silently judging you
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA
    TIM
    ESI-Fi 6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    322
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Truth with a capital T

    What is the Truth (with a capital T)?

  2. #2
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,253
    Mentioned
    1237 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    The Second Law of Thermodynamics.

    All else is made-up BS.


    ...Well, strictly speaking, the Second Law is also made up, but it's true.

  3. #3
    silently judging you
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA
    TIM
    ESI-Fi 6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    322
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    The Second Law of Thermodynamics.

    All else is made-up BS.


    ...Well, strictly speaking, the Second Law is also made up, but it's true.
    What. Is this what one calls a paradox? Both made up but true?

    Adam, you make physics sound fascinating.

  4. #4

    Default

    There is the notion that we cannot say what truth is ("The name that can be named is not the eternal name" etc.). Some people seem to like what is known as the neti neti approach.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    743
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The truth is no one can tell you what the truth is, but everyone speaks from some sort of truth all the time.
    Yes, even lying is telling the truth in its own way, because there's a reason behind.
    A moron with a big ego once told me: I don't care that people are lying to manipulate me, I want to know why. He puffed his chest saying and repeating this knowing it would earn him praise, lol.

  6. #6
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,253
    Mentioned
    1237 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Kalinoche buenanoche, I was thinking of Truth in terms of truly objective reality, which I don't think we have access to.

    The Second Law of Thermodynamics is true because it is made up. It is a description of an ideal system and does not depend on physical reality, but rather is a mathematical approximation to some limited parts of reality.

  7. #7
    Meg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    TIM
    ILI 1w2 sp/sx 145
    Posts
    347
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Time discovers truth. — Seneca

    ---
    conatus
    : a natural tendency, impulse, or striving : CONATION —used in Spinozism with reference to the inclination of a thing to persist in its own being (Merriam Webster)
    Intuitive logical introvert (ILI) • Other names: INTp, TP, The Critic
    Enneagram One with a Two-Wing: "The Advocate" • self-pres/sexual • The Researcher 1-4-5

    my youtube

  8. #8
    Shazaam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    AB-IEI-Ni
    Posts
    12,818
    Mentioned
    507 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Great

    "Truth" is something that is very subjectively true in a very deep way, like "the truth of your soul" - truth is different than facts or reality in that sense. There was an episode of DC legends of tomorrow and at the end they said something like 'It wasn't real- but it was still true.'

    For example it could be true that somebody identifies strongly as a murderer- even though in reality they don't kill people. The reality tells us they aren't a murderer- but the truth is they are because they identify so strongly with it and have had real murderous rages since childhood. Maybe they just haven't killed anybody else for completely narcissistic and selfish reasons ((don't want to go to prison or have to deal with the cumbersome annoyance of trying to cover it-up etc.))

    Okay that example kind of sucked but I hope you get what I mean. I can probably think of a better example later lol.

  9. #9
    Enlightened Hedonist Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,563
    Mentioned
    382 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    No being can know they know the Truth.

    However, as beings can willfully desire to lie, they can willfully desire to be true. Acting in a way contrary to what you believe to be true is no way to act (in my opinion), even if the result ends up being true. Be the change you want to be etc.














  10. #10
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    2,288
    Mentioned
    96 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    We should probably figure out what truth with a lowercase t means before we start pulling out the big guns.

  11. #11
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    2,288
    Mentioned
    96 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    truth is immutable, eternal, unending, and non-convertible
    Is truth a set of options?

  12. #12
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    2,288
    Mentioned
    96 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    you can have different paradigms, or system of beliefs to look at things. but that's not exactly the same as truth, if that's what u mean by "set of options"
    Does truth transcend a system of belief or depend on it?

  13. #13
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    2,288
    Mentioned
    96 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    facts can change, depending on what you're describing in a particular moment of time. ex: my hair is black today.

    truth doesn't change. ex: 1+1=2
    Not sure I follow. I guess you'd say you believe in platonic truth?

  14. #14
    one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    TIM
    Cool Beta Type
    Posts
    1,533
    Mentioned
    129 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In the case of Great truth is maybe Fi.
    R

  15. #15
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    2,288
    Mentioned
    96 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I tend to think truth with a capital T cannot be established, similar to Subteigh. Limits of perception and all that. Assumptions have to be made.

    Maybe the only thing that seems likely is that if "dreaming" is a term to describe a probability distribution for whether subjective experience translates to existence, there is dreaming if not existence itself (but you could argue that the dream then essentially becomes existence). But there are plenty of assumptions to make that work, but it seems to be one of those things that has closure no matter how you look at it.
    Last edited by ouronis; 08-05-2021 at 04:39 AM.

  16. #16
    roger557's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    571
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The Truth was lost long ago..

  17. #17
    I'm a tourist in the land of my own being Megatrop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Cosmos
    TIM
    ENFP
    Posts
    690
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I see the Truth as the reality independent of intellect, I believe it does exist independently of thinking.
    self-discovery
    self-development
    optimism
    relationships
    communication
    high ideals

  18. #18
    The Evening and the Morning Star Eudaimonia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    TIM
    EIE-Fe 3w4 Sx/So
    Posts
    1,888
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    made up, but it's true.
    This is really the best way to explain my theory of truth. I think it exists, but we are really just guessing at it. Any ideas of truth are really just ideas that are accepted as true by society or the individual.

    What I mean by this is that "Truths" are dependent on the beliefs and experience of the person espousing them.

    As its said above something only becomes true when it becomes useful and gives us the results we need to get from it.

    For example the second law of thermodynamics is truth so long as it properly explains entropy. (or what ever it does I don't remember exactly)

    There is nothing true within the law itself if it can no longer serve this purpose, that is to explain the phenomena that we are experiencing or observing.



    I think that Truth with a capital T is a tool used by power structures to justify their own authority. You cannot question the Truth.

    Truth is true because its Truth.

    Normal Science is truth and Scientism is Truth (pic related)

    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE-Fe | WELP | 3w4 sx/so

  19. #19
    AWellArmedCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Northern Japan
    TIM
    IEI-Fe (C) 4w3 so/sx
    Posts
    380
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There can be no truth until a proper question is asked. "What is the Truth" is an unclear question so the only way to measure the quality of its answers is by how much they resonate with our personal biases and preconceived ideas about the nature of things
    猫が生き甲斐

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •