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Thread: Fe creatives & lying

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    For reference, this Fe-creative says she dislikes this old lady, then chats her up like some sorta bff otherwise
    This isn't strange to me at all. I very often chat up people I dislike more than those I like in an effort to try and put myself above the conflict. The conflict is likely just temporary, so I do my best to steer things more towards good relations. I don't see how doing this is weird at all. They're just a person I don't get along with yet
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    My SEI-Si pal did and still does this on the rare occasion we talk...

    I'm convinced Fe creative is more scared of true conflict than any other type. Type 9 has an association with 4D Fi/3D Fe generally, which makes this an even greater fear. Te PoLR makes xEIs less inclined to state things bluntly off the bat. The kind of straightforward language and dialogue that Te+Fi uses, for example, disarms them, and so they often focus on adapting the tone of their Fe to the conversation, even if this means modifying the delivery of their true thoughts if the pressure to do so is present.
    That makes a lot of sense. I've always gone back and forth over whether my enneagram was 4 or 9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Fe creatives ”lie” or twist the truth, but that’s not a problem for Ti creatives because we do it too and never take anyone at face value. There’s always an agenda and it’s fine as long as you know what it is. Also even if IEI don’t want to say anything straight out and will endlessly hint and circle around you know how to read between the lines and set traps for them so that they reveal the truth inadvertently. It can be a fun game, as is confusing the Fe creatives by unexpected statements that might or might not be true. Their confusion is highly amusing. Also I think they enjoy their duals (that have good intentions) having the upper hand because it implies they won’t be fooled by others and will be able to protect the Fe creative.
    Nah. That sounds enabling crock horse shit. Fuck ssying "we" as if every Ti-creative does it. Just cause you overrate duality doesn't mean an IEI can behave like a retard & its cool. Then again, maybe with you it is

    You are entitled to your opinion, even if its a bad one where you're saying adults purposely manipulating each other is fine.

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    Honesty, as any character trait, isn't type related.

    OP, you probably had some bad experiences with dishonest Fe creatives. It can happen with any type, but so can meeting honest people of those types.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Nah. That sounds enabling crock horse shit. Fuck ssying "we" as if every Ti-creative does it. Just cause you overrate duality doesn't mean an IEI can behave like a retard & its cool. Then again, maybe with you it is

    You are entitled to your opinion, even if its a bad one where you're saying adults purposely manipulating each other is fine.
    Well dude, what can I say, if you don't like common Fe behaviors, think it's enabling them and you also think you "self supply" your Ni DS. What do you like about your supposed duals actually?
    Everyone manipulates but it's the type of manipulation that you don't like that is type related. I don't like Fi creatives manipulating me by using our "fi bond" to make me do things for them or feel like a bad person if I don't. I don't mind Fe creatives being sweet and indirect, I can see and cut through the bs if needed but I don't typically mind demure sweetness as a F manipulation.
    Let's see now, so far you've said you think Fe creatives lie and Ni doms are delusional, you run away from dates to "chill with your cats" instead, you don't like "overindulging" in Ti, you think online typing is dumb and impossible and refuse to provide a video of yourself because you don't have to "prove" anything, also you're thinking of conserving your energy and not "wasting" it on IEI that "use people". Most of these sound like introversion (IP types are very protective of their energy), maybe you should seriously consider SLI? There seems to be a disconnect between how types usually work and your opinions about them.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    What makes Fe-creatives lie when there's no reason to?
    The dishonesty you're describing sounds more like some unhealthy enneagram 3 stuff or a desperate need to be liked from everyone. There is always a reason. As twisted as it may be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    I have seen Fi PolRs do this as well, by the way. Both ILE and SLE.
    Yea me too. Had this SLE acquaintance at uni who would be like "see this gal there? I hate her guts", and then be like "heyyyy, how are you today?!" 3 seconds later. Could never wrap my head around this behaviour.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Yes, there are at times that I do think XIE have created a societal pressure perceived that was not there however, that is where our strength lies. I can understand why XLE may view us as lying or see that there in so „societal pressure“ be we are more actually aware of this then you may think. A lot of XLE can see and understand the object social expectation, a lot of them don’t understand the undercurrent of it and don’t realize the objective social pressure is lifted simply because the Fe-creative is manipulating the under current to keep it objectively that way. The amount of times I have had to swallow my own feelings and smooth things over to keep a pleasant Fe-harmony and expectations running is pretty high. I don’t like conflict. I rather heavy dislike it, so I really don’t like getting in the middle of things when I don’t have to and I think that is fair to say. It can effect me a lot. Same on the flip side with those who are more comfortable with conflict.
    Tbh, I've seen Fe-creatives jump through hoops and make crazy gymnastics with their Fe that for sure weren't because of Fe pressures on them. Looked kind of exhausting to me. I think Fe-creatives with Fe subtype can sometimes not realize that "keeping the peace", "not make waves" and "swallow feelings" or "avoiding conflict because I'm affected by it a lot" IS NOT Fe, lol. It's Si, Ni and Fi. Pure Fe is much more in your face than creative Fe will ever be able to produce. Fe isn't about you or the peace you feel; it's about directing people, whether that demands conflict or not. You guys are Ip, so you create Fe to satisfy your introverted functions, using 'pure Fe' is not something you're made for.

    Example of 4D Fe: I might invite people I don't like to my party, because, well, some people might like them even if I don't. But the moment you make the party a pain in the ass for everyone, you're out, doesn't matter if you're my friend or have feelings or whatever. I expect people to have fun at my party. The party had one rule, "have fun and don't be a pain in the ass"; if you can't do that, bye. 4D Fe for you. It's not personal, but bye. Fe creatives in that situation would bend over backwards to get people to make up. I guess it's the 4D Si, Ni and Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Regarding Fe bases: I think either they don’t lie so frequently/are so intentionally deceitful as Fe creatives, or if they do lie, it doesn’t seem to be compulsive for them.
    Fe-doms just seem .... very confused. Might contradict themselves easily. Ergo the need for Ti-doms. In general 4D types have less qualms 'to let it all out'. What's the point of having a 'good relationship' if it's a relationship based on emotional restraint to the point where you don't know what people are feeling?

    In contrast to that, 4D Fi types seem to prefer to ..... compromise, let's say?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    When I was in a relationship with an SEI, something that I really didn’t like was a feeling she would never quite level with me. She’d tell me something, something would strike me as not quite right about her response, and I’d have to ask a million questions to get something approximating the truth. Or I’d have to come up with outright evidence she’d been lying to me and say “what gives.” What bothered me most was a feeling like any time she’d lie it was over something inconsequential — like there was no reason to do it, yet she’d do it anyway.

    I don’t want to give too many examples, but for instance, one time she decided to try going back on antidepressants, without telling me, since she knew I disapproved. The first day she began taking them I asked if she’d been taking anything, since her behavior seemed different. “...No.” It wasn’t until much later she admitted it. And that’s the sort of thing I mean — regarding an example like that, I’m not exactly a very angry person IRL, and I never tried to control her personal decisions like that. If she’d had said “yes” I would have sighed and asked for how long she was planning to stay on them. So the feeling was she’d be willing to lie to me just to escape a feeling I’d disapprove of her — but even in that instance, it was like she never thought I’d be actually mad to find she lied to me over almost nothing!
    That explanation fits for ESE, but not for SEI. Mb it's not about your reaction at all. Mb she was trying to lie to herself. Like "it's nothing, I'm just a bit down and one pill will be enough to get me out of this rut, no need to talk about it with him, he'll just worry" or mb that was her way to deal with some of your relationship issues. Who knows? Often 4D Fi types need someone who confronts them only when they have sunken in shit all the way to the neck; 4D Te style.

    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 07-27-2021 at 12:53 PM.
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    I also am wondering how much age can have in this.. Of course grown adults, like my mother who is nearing 50, can also be unhealthy (an ESE So2 who engages this behavior notoriously as already said). But I think older healthy Fe's will have more a grip on this.

    I also really would like emphasize enneagram importance on this. As said already by me, a 4 thrives be very authentic. I see how it would be counter to my true nature to do such thing and try veer away from such behaviors whenver can, though it may be unavoidable if I really am triggered at the time, given my emotional state, but again, I never will act like they are "my best friend"; I will be neutral... If they are suddenly changed and are nice at time, I may be cordial, but that is unlikely.

    I really think enneagram type 6's and the 3 and 2 are most prone to this behavior, especially social variances of such. 2 has hard time with boundaries and just wants express itself, but not unlike four, caring about authenticity. 3 just cares about advancing if unhealthy and also can be poor with boundary, especially a 3w2 over 3w4. And 6 as already explained, may feel pressured by community.

    I know an IEI 5w6 that is older than I, who one time took offense to an IEE-Fi doing this behavior to him, and he publicly confronted her on my server about it. She shit talked him on one of my servers, and I defended his name and told people they should invite him, to which then that was when she shit talked him.

    4 and 5 are some of the most authentic types. 4, 5 and 8 being the most such. 4 and 5 both are withdrawn. We do not really want to express as much, that is bold... Other than in four, our bold emotions.

    I think enneagram is a bigger indicator for this behavior, especially if it is a type prone to such that is unhealthy/disintegrated. Enneagram being more a matter of behavior than how one attains information (as well as their core motives, for enneagram).
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    There are different levels to not liking someone just like there are different levels to liking someone.

    Also sometimes even though you dislike someone you still don't want to hurt their feelings or depending on the setting you might just not want to ruin the mood of the group. For exemple, if there is someone that I dislike at work or in a large group of friends it will take a lot for me to actually confront them. That's because confronting them might cause even more issues and make me feel even worse than how they are making me feel in the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    I also am wondering how much age can have in this.. Of course grown adults, like my mother who is nearing 50, can also be unhealthy (an ESE So2 who engages this behavior notoriously as already said). But I think older healthy Fe's will have more a grip on this.

    I also really would like emphasize enneagram importance on this. As said already by me, a 4 thrives be very authentic. I see how it would be counter to my true nature to do such thing and try veer away from such behaviors whenver can, though it may be unavoidable if I really am triggered at the time, given my emotional state, but again, I never will act like they are "my best friend"; I will be neutral... If they are suddenly changed and are nice at time, I may be cordial, but that is unlikely.

    He is an Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp 5w6 and is Ni subtype...

    I think an IEI 2w3, or 6 core that is Fe sub and a social instinct, is the most probably kind of IEI who would shit talk and then act all buddy-buddy, the two-faced behavior.
    I really think enneagram type 6's and the 3 and 2 are most prone to this behavior, especially social variances of such. 2 has hard time with boundaries and just wants express itself, but not unlike four, caring about authenticity. 3 just cares about advancing if unhealthy and also can be poor with boundary, especially a 3w2 over 3w4. And 6 as already explained, may feel pressured by community.

    I know an IEI 5w6 that is older than I, who one time took offense to an IEE-Fi doing this behavior to him, and he publicly confronted her on my server about it. She shit talked him on one of my servers, and I defended his name and told people they should invite him, to which then that was when she shit talked him.

    4 and 5 are some of the most authentic types. 4, 5 and 8 being the most such. 4 and 5 both are withdrawn. We do not really want to express as much, that is bold... Other than in four, our bold emotions.

    I think enneagram is a bigger indicator for this behavior, especially if it is a type prone to such that is unhealthy/disintegrated. Enneagram being more a matter of behavior than how one attains information (as well as their core motives, for enneagram).
    This IEI that is older than I unlike my own self, is religious. He is a Christian... He has explicitly said how he hates people like my mother who lie (gaslight, enable and hide abuse, blackmail), and then go to church and act like they are all religious... I just think honestly there are certain subtypes and enneagram combos, as well as underlying psychopathology) that are confluent with this.

    He definitely would not behave like this, and I have also seen him directly confront people he dislikes, outside of the IEE-Ne. He will make passive remarks, or directly tell them he is upset in a subtle, yet semi aggressive way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    I also am wondering how much age can have in this.. Of course grown adults, like my mother who is nearing 50, can also be unhealthy (an ESE So2 who engages this behavior notoriously as already said). But I think older healthy Fe's will have more a grip on this.

    I also really would like emphasize enneagram importance on this. As said already by me, a 4 thrives be very authentic. I see how it would be counter to my true nature to do such thing and try veer away from such behaviors whenever can, though it may be unavoidable if I really am triggered at the time, given my emotional state, but again, I never will act like they are "my best friend"; I will be neutral... If they are suddenly changed and are nice at time, I may be cordial, but that is unlikely.

    I really think enneagram type 6's and the 3 and 2 are most prone to this behavior, especially social variances of such. 2 has hard time with boundaries and just wants express itself, but not unlike four, caring about authenticity. 3 just cares about advancing if unhealthy and also can be poor with boundary, especially a 3w2 over 3w4. And 6 as already explained, may feel pressured by community.

    I know an IEI 5w6 that is older than I, who one time took offense to an IEE-Fi doing this behavior to him, and he publicly confronted her on my server about it. She shit talked him on one of my servers, and I defended his name and told people they should invite him, to which then that was when she shit talked him.

    4 and 5 are some of the most authentic types. 4, 5 and 8 being the most such. 4 and 5 both are withdrawn. We do not really want to express as much, that is bold... Other than in four, our bold emotions.

    I think enneagram is a bigger indicator for this behavior, especially if it is a type prone to such that is unhealthy/disintegrated. Enneagram being more a matter of behavior than how one attains information (as well as their core motives, for enneagram).
    This IEI that is older than I unlike my own self, is religious. He is a Christian... He has explicitly said how he hates people like my mother who lie (gaslight, enable and hide abuse, blackmail), and then go to church and act like they are all religious... I just think honestly there are certain subtypes and enneagram combos, as well as underlying psychopathology) that are confluent with this.

    He definitely would not behave like this, and I have also seen him directly confront people he dislikes, outside of the IEE-Ne. He will make passive remarks, or directly tell them he is upset in a subtle, yet semi aggressive way.


    An IEI 2w3 or 6 core that is Fe sub and social instinct is the most probable type of an IEI who will engage in this behavior.. An unhealthy 9 or 4 may potentially, since 4 goes to 2, and 9 goes to 6... But I am not healthiest and still don't, other than I had done so on a guy named Roman who everyone dislikes and does it, and it is not me exclusively, but everyone on the community, and I still tried be more standoffish and not as overly warm, but was a bit more cordial with him at times @queenTiger knows why for Roman, and who he is.. When I disintegrated to 2 a few years ago heavily I did do it a tiny as well, with a guy named Corvo, but that otherwise is it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    There are different levels to not liking someone just like there are different levels to liking someone.

    Also sometimes even though you dislike someone you still don't want to hurt their feelings or depending on the setting you might just not want to ruin the mood of the group. For exemple, if there is someone that I dislike at work or in a large group of friends it will take a lot for me to actually confront them. That's because confronting them might cause even more issues and make me feel even worse than how they are making me feel in the moment.
    Just bouncing from this.

    Sometimes, one can dislike a person and know they are still decent a human being. That can be confusing to feel angry at someone while knowing they mean no harm and that it's more a personality clash than anything else and they may feel the same towards you.
    It's difficult to gage this, on one side you don't necessarily want to build something with them so you don't want to try to talk it out, but on the other, talking might ease two minds, but could also backfire dramaticaly. This can build a lot of frustration, as no option seems that great, that may go off at some point and decide the outcome.
    That's where a dual can help take a stance or a step back to better gage the situation and help be more at ease with choices. Then again, a person can learn to do that for themselves too.
    I guess a dual can pick between two roles, either encourage the ego or question it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    Just bouncing from this.

    Sometimes, one can dislike a person and know they are still decent a human being. That can be confusing to feel angry at someone while knowing they mean no harm and that it's more a personality clash than anything else and they may feel the same towards you.
    It's difficult to gage this, on one side you don't necessarily want to build something with them so you don't want to try to talk it out, but on the other, talking might ease two minds, but could also backfire dramaticaly. This can build a lot of frustration, as no option seems that great, that may go off at some point and decide the outcome.
    That's where a dual can help take a stance or a step back to better gage the situation and help be more at ease with choices. Then again, a person can learn to do that for themselves too.
    I guess a dual can pick between two roles, either encourage the ego or question it.
    Exactly this. Being Fi4D means that you constantly take a lot of things into consideration when it comes to relationships, your feelings and the feelings of others. It might be even more true for Fe creatives because we value Fe-Ti so we try to act as fairly as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Well dude, what can I say, if you don't like common Fe behaviors, think it's enabling them and you also think you "self supply" your Ni DS. What do you like about your supposed duals actually?
    Everyone manipulates but it's the type of manipulation that you don't like that is type related. I don't like Fi creatives manipulating me by using our "fi bond" to make me do things for them or feel like a bad person if I don't. I don't mind Fe creatives being sweet and indirect, I can see and cut through the bs if needed but I don't typically mind demure sweetness as a F manipulation.
    Let's see now, so far you've said you think Fe creatives lie and Ni doms are delusional, you run away from dates to "chill with your cats" instead, you don't like "overindulging" in Ti, you think online typing is dumb and impossible and refuse to provide a video of yourself because you don't have to "prove" anything, also you're thinking of conserving your energy and not "wasting" it on IEI that "use people". Most of these sound like introversion (IP types are very protective of their energy), maybe you should seriously consider SLI? There seems to be a disconnect between how types usually work and your opinions about them.
    Fuck off with your online typing. I have 2 degrees in comparative psychology, which means I could easily behave like any type.

    You're overthinking, projecting, taking shit I say & drawing inaccurate conclusions with no evidence. I won't post a vid cause even if I did you nerds would still guess wrong cause that's what armchair neophytes do.

    It's funny dozens of people on a site are delusional to buy that you can type a person in an abstract world like the internet. Keep typing me, keep being wrong.

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    IEI are fine. I'm just not needy or idealize types regardless of their shit head behavior.

    IEI have big, wide smiles. Their voices cheer my mood regardless of how aggressive I am at the time.

    IEI patiently observe. They understand the flow of time, search for the hidden truth & give meaning to the way forcefully approach objects

    IEI show trepidation when it comes to engaging the concrete world. This inspires me to absolute action to deliver them from their fear in a way & pace that makes it easy

    IEI don't understand technology so good. I dig analyzing/demonstrating for them step by step the best way to understand or grasp their particular mechanical question.

    Those are the things I dig about IEI. Now that I've typed all that, go cherry pick a random word & type me as IEE.
    Last edited by Stray Cat; 07-27-2021 at 09:48 PM.

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    I hold no opinion on the typing. But sometimes enneagram also can make others look like a type they are not, or it can go counter and make them still that type, but looking lesser like it because of the ennergam and behavioral aspects birting from core fear.
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    If everybody was completely and totally 100% honest about what everybody thought of everybody else all the time we'd all be a bunch of dead bodies on the ground. Or I mean, there would be no peace at any time whatsoever. Yes, Fe can be incredibly manipulative- but it's usually done for good reasons. Even if you don't value that emotional mushy stuff look at it this way: Nobody would stay hired for very long either lol.

    That one woman I talk shit about on here sometimes ((cuz it amuses me how we didn't get along)) - I wouldn't say those things to her face probably because she's unstable for real and would totally overreact like Callisto and would probably do something physically violent even if she knew the truth of her Fi crimes. I highly doubt she would genuinely listen to me or even fully understand me if I was that straightforward with her- but you're welcome to try it yourself. She's not a very mentally stable individual and this is just a small example of why dealing people requires a level of finesse, and you can't just be bull in a china shop with everybody at all times.

    Yeah I wouldn't react that way myself but everybody is different and reacts to shit differently. Some people would hate themselves- others would use it as justification to hurt others. Often times manipulative Fe is used to try and maintain a Fi relationship as well.

    There is real reason why people do this, it's not done just to be difficult or 'flighty' or whatever IEIs are accused of. I think the Te/Fi criticism can be appropriate if it's like some work review meeting though or whatever- because then to me it has more of a point. ((as long as there is some Te and it's not just 100% Fi.)) I'll respect it then a lot more then but if that's not the case I don't find it very constructive or helpful.

    Yeah ideally people can hear (true) but negative Fi shit about themselves and be totally fine but in reality it's often just hurtful and destructive ime. Nothing efficient or productive even gets done, and it often turns into some dramatic virtue-signaling nightmare on who has the closet seat to God (Protip: Everybody fails miserably with that) How do I really know this? Because if it was any way otherwise- you'd have already ascended to Heaven and wouldn't be stuck here on earth with my sinful homosexual ass.

    Being overly dramatic is what Fe gets accused of but really, is a Fi thing as well... too much focus on the emotional functions is bad period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat
    Fuck off with your online typing. I have 2 degrees in comparative psychology, which means I could easily behave like any type.

    You're overthinking, projecting, taking shit I say & drawing inaccurate conclusions with no evidence. I won't post a vid cause even if I did you nerds would still guess wrong cause that's what armchair neophytes do.

    It's funny dozens of people on a site are delusional to buy that you can type a person in an abstract world like the internet. Keep typing me, keep being wrong.
    Wow, impressive! Which animal, I mean type are you behaving like now?

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Fuck off with your online typing. I have 2 degrees in comparative psychology, which means I could easily behave like any type.

    You're overthinking, projecting, taking shit I say & drawing inaccurate conclusions with no evidence. I won't post a vid cause even if I did you nerds would still guess wrong cause that's what armchair neophytes do.

    It's funny dozens of people on a site are delusional to buy that you can type a person in an abstract world like the internet. Keep typing me, keep being wrong.
    Let’s calm down. I think you are SLE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    IEI are fine. I'm just not needy or idealize types regardless of their shit head behavior.

    IEI have big, wide smiles. Their voices cheer my mood regardless of how aggressive I am at the time.

    IEI patiently observe. They understand the flow of time, search for the hidden truth & give meaning to the way forcefully approach objects

    IEI show trepidation when it comes to engaging the concrete world. This inspires me to absolute action to deliver them from their fear in a way & pace that makes it easy

    IEI don't understand technology so good. I dig analyzing/demonstrating for them step by step the best way to understand or grasp their particular mechanical question.

    Those are the things I dig about IEI. Now that I've typed all that, go cherry pick a random word & type me as IEE.
    These are excellent points but I worry that you judge all IEI the same.
    Life, experiences and relationships change people
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Everyone and anyone can lie. Not type related. Lying sometimes has a specific purpose “to look out for the best interests of others” to protect others, etc I mean get real!
    Even me as a mom I find white lying to my daughter like “babies come from love” no they come from sex ahaha
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  21. #61
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    If I asked an Fe-creative their take on a particular person & they lied, that wouldn't be unusual

    I've had Fe-creatives randomly talk shit about a particular person then turn around, be tight, chatty & be best friends with that person.

    What makes Fe-creatives lie when there's no reason to?
    To keep relations.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Those IEI things sound like things read from a textbook. Too stereotypical and stock-like and does not describe a real person at all. It makes us sound like overly paranoid weenies when in all reality I have found the other person is actually more of a pussy than I am except for in extreme cases. Maybe that's why I like bad boys- I really do just need somebody tough enough to handle me and life- and not to cower or crumble over the least little thing. It's probably true that IEIs don't respond too well to certain levels of serious aggression- I mean we are from a merry quadra after all.

    And I understand most technology things just fine and love learning about technology. Plenty of technology crap is Ti not Te and so IEIs do fine with it. I am a little annoyed at people not realizing ethical types have a 2D logical function in either Ti or Te that gets them by just fine, but whatever. Yes 2+2 = 7 because I feel things deeply and enjoy gay musicals.

    "IEIs patiently obeserve" - too vague and stereotypical. Many times I'm actually quite impatient and people often sense this about me. Just because I'm not going to act like a lunatic everytime I feel impatient doesn't mean I'm not lol.

    I think I agree with Northstar- sometimes it seems you really want an EII or something and not a IEI?

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    SEI have a lot more trouble with technology, IEI often enjoy figuring out software on their own by reading forum threads about it, for example. The information just needs to be in a Ti format, not Te. It needs to be stated why certain things need to be done and what it means, instead of just a list of instruction manual process steps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    The information just needs to be in a Ti format, not Te. It needs to be stated why certain things need to be done and what it means, instead of just a list of instruction manual process steps.
    Te isn't "following a list of instruction manual steps" IMO, if anything, the difference you are describing is between people of different intelligence levels. Knowing why you need to do something and what it's purpose is, is more sign of intelligence than it is Ti.

    Of course both approaches can be valid depending on the task. For example, if you just need to download and install software, following the instructions is easiest. But if you are doing something more intellecually demanding (like programming?) that requires creativity and knowing why you are doing it.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

    ~Nietzsche

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    As to the manipulation thing, I agree that everyone "manipulates" but when I hear manipulation I think it more in terms of deceiving and exploiting others.

    I think the latter is more the colloquial understanding of the term, socionics uses it more as a trait of ethics, diplomacy for example that isn't always 100% sincere but gets the job done in terms of having a positive impact on relations.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

    ~Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave
    Te isn't "following a list of instruction manual steps" IMO, if anything, the difference you are describing is between people of different intelligence levels. Knowing why you need to do something and what it's purpose is, is more sign of intelligence than it is Ti.

    Of course both approaches can be valid depending on the task. For example, if you just need to download and install software, following the instructions is easiest. But if you are doing something more intellecually demanding (like programming?) that requires creativity and knowing why you are doing it.
    I didn’t say it was. I said that Te information tends to be a dump of facts and the mechanics of the task, while Ti goes more into the background. Black box and white box. External dynamics vs. Internal statics. Basic socionics.

    Both types of information serve a purpose and logical types have no problem processing either type, ethicals prefer the type that they value. I like Te information when I’m putting together or disassembling something, it is more efficient, while Ti type information is more enjoyable and more useful for fault diagnostics.

    The level of intelligence doesn’t matter, it’s just a preference difference. Te is faster at figuring out what to do and make up quick rules of thumb, Ti is slower to work but digs deeper to figure out the exceptions and deeper causes for the effects.

    Both Te and Ti work for programming; in my team I have led both Te and Ti ego types. They have different approaches, Te types are fast and quickly&dirty (I am like this too as are ILE though they create more convoluted structures with multiple meanings), Ti leads are more like architects. Slower, but create beautiful structures.
    Last edited by Northstar; 07-29-2021 at 10:04 AM.

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    I remember when I put together a trampoline for my family a few years ago. I was fine up until this complicated part where I had to thread the loops together. LoL it was a Se issue more than anything really- my 4D Se ESE mom figured it out pretty quickly. ((Probably some Te too- both of my 1D Functions that's why it was giving me grief.)) They didn't describe it that clearly in the instruction manual either and it was hard for my brain to understand to do what it is they meant.

    My 4D Ti ego LII dad tried to get me into programming/coding, ever since I was a little boy. I learned some things for him but he got more into it because it was more of a purely logical thing and he could definitely do it longer than I could ((I'd get more distracted with romantic/emotional writing crap as to be expected)) - but I still didn't really have that much issue following along and we made video games together. Usually simple things like casino slot games ((and he designed his own Weight Watcher points calculator)) - but we had ideas for bigger platforming things etc.

    I like RPG Maker 2003 programming because it's style it's very Fe/Ti friendly imo- the later models use a lot more Te/Fi that annoys me. The program is getting so old now though (I mean yeah in technology years 2003 is pretty ancient) I worry it won't run on most computers by the time I'm done making my video game lol- especially since Microsoft products tend to be so Gamma trying to progress into Delta like. I might have to change it up to actually make it work- but oh well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    I remember when I put together a trampoline for my family a few years ago. I was fine up until this complicated part where I had to thread the loops together. LoL it was a Se issue more than anything really- my 4D Se ESE mom figured it out pretty quickly. ((Probably some Te too- both of my 1D Functions that's why it was giving me grief.)) They didn't describe it that clearly in the instruction manual either and it was hard for my brain to understand to do what it is they meant.
    I think following an instruction manual doesn't necessarily require high T. There's more Te/Ti behind the scene from the people who actually designed the product and its construction mechanism or perhaps the person writing the manual.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I want to know how do I permanently shut off the function that gets butt hurt, offended, etc to hold all things in neutral balance and be one with all
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    I want to know how do I permanently shut off the function that gets butt hurt, offended, etc to hold all things in neutral balance and be one with all
    Don't shut it off, look at it with compassion like you do others.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    Don't shut it off, look at it with compassion like you do others.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  32. #72
    I'm a tourist in the land of my own being Megatrop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    If I asked an Fe-creative their take on a particular person & they lied, that wouldn't be unusual

    I've had Fe-creatives randomly talk shit about a particular person then turn around, be tight, chatty & be best friends with that person.

    What makes Fe-creatives lie when there's no reason to?
    I don't think it really means they're lying. Sometimes people have unconscious beliefs they're not aware of, and they may do one thing and believe the total opposite of what theyre saying. It's like myself, I once told my friend I don't like girls with big boobs, but a month later I saw a girl with different eyes when I saw her boobs and that made me really attracted to her, and I had only seen her face by meetings online. Idk why that happens, but also sometimes people contradict themselves a lot especially feelers
    self-discovery
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Those IEI things sound like things read from a textbook. Too stereotypical and stock-like and does not describe a real person at all. It makes us sound like overly paranoid weenies when in all reality I have found the other person is actually more of a pussy than I am except for in extreme cases. Maybe that's why I like bad boys- I really do just need somebody tough enough to handle me and life- and not to cower or crumble over the least little thing. It's probably true that IEIs don't respond too well to certain levels of serious aggression- I mean we are from a merry quadra after all.

    And I understand most technology things just fine and love learning about technology. Plenty of technology crap is Ti not Te and so IEIs do fine with it. I am a little annoyed at people not realizing ethical types have a 2D logical function in either Ti or Te that gets them by just fine, but whatever. Yes 2+2 = 7 because I feel things deeply and enjoy gay musicals.

    "IEIs patiently obeserve" - too vague and stereotypical. Many times I'm actually quite impatient and people often sense this about me. Just because I'm not going to act like a lunatic everytime I feel impatient doesn't mean I'm not lol.

    I think I agree with Northstar- sometimes it seems you really want an EII or something and not a IEI?
    Shut the fuck up. You and some members here have literally the most retarded imaginations possible. Just the fuck up.

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    To stay on yours and the other person's better side.

    It depends on the context too, whether these two people cohabit or have to work together.

    It may also be that when they are in the presence of that other person they do not inhabit themselves completely. In "real-time" they may be adapting to the other person, because they feel they may not be accepted if they were to be themselves. Reflecting on that in hindsight may cause the irritable, contradictory feelings - the ones they reveal to you.

    Ethical types may make more concessions and be aware of the contradictions; that they relate to a person in some ways, but not in others.
    It seems important to find ways to cooperate with others and to learn to accept them as they are, but what happens in the middle can be messy and imperfect.

  35. #75
    16 TYPE'S RESIDENT FIXER DEAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    I want to know how do I permanently shut off the function that gets butt hurt, offended, etc to hold all things in neutral balance and be one with all

    Lobotomy.

  36. #76
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    Agree with Stray Cat, I always see contradictions from Fe creatives. But I am not sure if it's because they forget the facts due to focusing to much on emotional engagement or they deliberately lie.
    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    To stay on yours and the other person's better side.

    It depends on the context too, whether these two people cohabit or have to work together.

    It may also be that when they are in the presence of that other person they do not inhabit themselves completely. In "real-time" they may be adapting to the other person, because they feel they may not be accepted if they were to be themselves. Reflecting on that in hindsight may cause the irritable, contradictory feelings - the ones they reveal to you.

    Ethical types may make more concessions and be aware of the contradictions; that they relate to a person in some ways, but not in others.
    It seems important to find ways to cooperate with others and to learn to accept them as they are, but what happens in the middle can be messy and imperfect.
    That’s pretty much what I agree with.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  38. #78
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    It's not 'imagination' - it's going by what you really say and what the functions really mean.

  39. #79
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    it kinda feels like the way Te types criticize Fe types...

  40. #80
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    I don't feel like justifying anything here lmao. Take it or leave it. If you think what we do is lying then it's lying. Find better people for your needs.

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