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Thread: DUALITY

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    16 TYPE'S RESIDENT FIXER DEAD's Avatar
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    Question DUALITY

    Why does Duality pairing never seem to take into account asexuality, or LGBT people?

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    Moderator FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    Does it not?

    I really get along well with my ESE cousin. I don’t want to fuck her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Does it not?

    I really get along well with my ESE cousin. I don’t want to fuck her.
    Thou dost protest too much

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    16 TYPE'S RESIDENT FIXER DEAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Does it not?

    I really get along well with my ESE cousin. I don’t want to fuck her.
    I meant in terms of sexual relationships. Maybe it's just not as widely spoken about because it's not "the norm" and is outside the "base of Socionics" and Russian culture. I was reading Filatova, and I noticed she used the term "opposite sex" in terms of relations.

    The SEE – men with bright and intense emotional range – from angry indignation to noisy enthusiasm. He thus always finds himself included in the emotional situation, he is ready to act: to help, to sympathize, to fight, to condemn, - and no matter how he expresses his relation to that occurring he is always absolutely confident in the correctness of his sentence.

    With the opposite sex he readily displays initiative. Though to suffer rejection may be tragic he knows to move on.
    - SEE profile

    In relations to opposite sex, LII shows caution and judiciousness, holds himself with restraint. He becomes enlivened in course of intellectual conversation – in this sphere he feels himself sufficiently grounded and capable.
    -LII profile

    Beskova too:

    In spite of his quiet nature and tendency for secluded existence, young INFj male loves people, and with pleasure meets and spends time with them. Boys of this type can also be found in groups of friends, but even there they prefer to associate face to face, turn by turn with everyone who sparks an interest in them or to whom they become attached. Male INFj's character is often soft and reasonable, thus he is usually very responsive to initiative shown by the opposite sex.
    Men of this type are not indifferent to the opposite sex. For DUMAS it doesn't not constitute much of a problem to positively predispose towards himself any woman that he likes. Courting he does gallantly, one can say, with a lot of professionalism, such that it is impossible to resist his charms. If his mind is set to find a partner for marriage, then he will find a suitable woman, and however difficult her nature may be, he will learn to get along with her.
    Male BALZACs understand poorly how to develop relationships with the opposite sex and even more poorly orient in the realm of feelings; therefore they hold themselves neutrally, with indifference. He himself does not understand how he gets pulled into relationships, and notices this problem only when it becomes urgent for him to do something - get married or break up.
    HUXLEY girls easily enter into the psychological contact with the opposite sex and sometimes they seem very accessible. From almost the first hour of acquaintance, they feel the prospects for relations, and if something is not to their liking, they can easily adjust the distance. Then flirting and friendship with the man continues, but closer approach does not occur, which frequently puzzles representatives of the opposite sex.
    But not only with this does he impress the opposite sex. In dangerous situations, ILE man acts like a true knight - stands up for the weak and the unjustly victimized, in fact often not taking into consideration the superiority of his opponent’s strength. This does not mean that he goes looking for trouble. If there is no necessity, he will try to avoid a dangerous situation, but if, right in front of his eyes, a woman is threatened, bravery and nobility take the upper hand.
    Even Reinin:

    People of this type often need an external push in order to do something. And, on the other hand, they are unable to resist this pressure. If a person of the opposite sex comes to a Balzac and says: “I am moving in, I will live with you”. – “Well, OK”.

    I dunno, I just kinda find it amusing.

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    idiot sandwich aixelsyd's Avatar
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    Maybe because divorce is time consuming and expensive. May as well drill it into people's heads to seek psychological compatibility before getting married.

    But yeah, the descriptions aren't really PC but I think a lot of queers are used to making the substitution in their heads.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    It does!
    I know an EII and LSE dual gay pair or two
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Why does Duality pairing never seem to take into account asexuality, or LGBT people?

    I think it's just a wording problem. I've seen many Duality descriptions which say that Duality is good for friendship, marriage, work, and play. I assume that they don't exclude members of the same sex in any of those categories.

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    There is no theory for possible differences of IR effects for people having sexual disorders.

    Duality is not about sexual attractions.
    It's linked but is secondary. When you like someone as a person - you (or unconsciousness) allow yourself to feel (or get more conscious) higher sexual attraction and related feelings.

    If experimental researches will find the difference - it will be said.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Intertype relations refer to the dynamics on information exchange and metabolism between two TIMs, you could be the friend, the partner, the son, the father and the worst enemy of your dual, or your conflictor, and it doesn't matter.

    Obviously there's ITR effect on every interaction with others, be it man, woman, gay, straight, or whatever.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    It's simply the choice of words - similar to assuming all Socionics types are right-handed or white. Also, a majority of the descriptions seem to be bad translations from another language. There's also cultural influences and beliefs in many of the writing styles. And Socionics isn't hard science although many purport it to be.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    There is no theory for possible differences of IR effects for people having sexual disorders.

    Duality is not about sexual attractions.
    It's linked but is secondary. When you like someone as a person - you (or unconsciousness) allow yourself to feel (or get more conscious) higher sexual attraction and related feelings.

    If experimental researches will find the difference - it will be said.
    @Sol, I completely agree with this.

    Right now, I’m working with a very high quality female Dual. I feel like our relationship is the best I’ve had in years, and despite her looking fantastic, I’m not sexually attracted to her the way I am with some women.

    If she were willing, I COULD have sex with her, but that’s not her main attraction.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    ...... people having sexual disorders.......
    A point on word choice: Disorders are something like erectile dysfunction. Heterosexuals referring to other non-criminal sexual preferences as disorders might be considered a sort of exclusionism?

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Maybe the author of those particular articles assumed heterosexuality was a form of duality as well. He/she hypothesizes that men, in their "masculine" dispositions, balances women, in their "feminine" dispositions.

    Perhaps socionics favors "traditionalism" to alleviate the insecurities of the emotional state of humans.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    Is anyone else sensing that a hole is being dug deeper?

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    It looks like I'll have to state the obvious : homosexuality was not just frowned upon in Russia when most articles were written (it probably hasn't changed much).

    Why would they write about something that cannot happen ? (and should not happen, according to most readers).



    Of course, it adds with all the valid points made above...

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    Probably just a product of the times, you can most likely swap out those terms and add a little common sense and you'd have the same thing.

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    They already apply to LGBT people, just I think the way it's worded and the culture has come more from Te/Fi valuing heterosexuals. It still applies to us, just a lot of the articles are clearly written by and slanted towards Te/Fi heterosexuals. And looking at the past anti-gay abuses in Russia.

    But I don't like playing a victim with this. I think the answer is to be the change you want to see in the world. That's why I write my own socionics articles & develop my own subtype systems to bring some Fe gay life to the Te straight deadness.

    Gays get crushes on and simply 'fall in love' with people too- but focusing a lot on sex is a way to demonize people and to make straights look morally superior even though I know plenty more straight relationships that died due to the unhealthy focus on lust and sexual attraction than I did gay couples. I mean yeah straight sex potentially makes a cute innocent baby and gay sex clearly does not- but life isn't that simplistic and things don't exist in a vacuum where that automatically makes a person morally superior or 'less sex obsessed.'

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    Also even though gays can't have children having sex with other men, siblings of gay men tend to be extra-fertile biologically speaking - meaning the gay uncles of str8 females help raise off-spring for a society.

    So gay people actually help with population growth. And the benevolent assistance of Heterosexual Angels to be fruitful and multiply.

    No reason to discriminate against gay people even with the 'but they can't make kids like we can!' arguement. *stomps foot like Glory on Buffy until a building falls on the homophobe's head* =)

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    @BandD I have never understood whats morally wrong with homosexuality as it is often found in nature throughout many animal kingdoms but we demoralize it because it's not natural????? Strange. What is actually unnatural is pedophilia. There have been either no cases or very rare cases of it being found in the animal kingdom. One time that it was documented in an animal kingdom was due to overpopulation. But I didn't know about being extra fertile. That is like really cool.

    Anyways, I am sad that there isn't mention of more same-sex couples when discussing duality. Even in a platonic way. I would go on my own recon but I sadly don't swing that way. Though I do have a lot more friends that are women so I can discuss relational aspects in that. I don't know any ILE women at the moment. I only knew one before but she rubbed me the wrong way sadly and I felt more anxious with her so I can't say much on that. Though the ILE women on here are dope though. They make me laugh

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    I used to listen to certain music artists who intrigued me. Turns out, they were my dual. One of the greatest sources if my DS functions were songwriters who led with it. I agree with being independent from others when possible. Once entering a real life relation, your partner may have incentive to use you for their own desire. This, I believe, IS normal but cautionary for those insistent on chasing duality.

    Point is, getting dualized comes from the function's accurate usage. This usage could stem any person you encounter whether local or otherwise.

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    Yes @MissDucki that thing with gay males having female siblings who were extra fertile was interesting to me too the first time I heard it.

    Yes there are many kinds of compatible dual relationships other than the obvious romantic one everybody wants:

    Gay male/str8 male friendship duals (me and Northstar. Nah I don't have a crush on him or anything but he's still cool lol) Gay male/str8 female duals. Str8 female/lesbian duals. Lesbian/str8 male duals. Lesbian/gay male duals. Str8 female/str8 male friendship duals... might be more rare of all the talk I heard about how men and women 'can't just be friends' but still possible. Bisexual female/bisexual female duals. Bi female/str8 female duals.... Man there's just so many combinations!

    Bisexual male/bisexual male duals... Sounds interesting and kinda hot to me tbh. =D

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