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Thread: The Integral Sociotype of the Eleven Nations of North America

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    Default The Integral Sociotype of the Eleven Nations of North America

    What do you think the integral sociotype of the Eleven Nations of North America?

    https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...-states-2015-7

    Here's a short summary of the American Nations:

    • Yankeedom values education, and members are comfortable with government regulation. Encompassing the entire Northeast north of New York City and spreading through Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, Yankeedom values education, intellectual achievement, communal empowerment, and citizen participation in government as a shield against tyranny. Yankees are comfortable with government regulation. Woodard notes that Yankees have a "Utopian streak." The area was settled by radical Calvinists.
    • New Netherland in the New York area has a "materialistic" culture. A highly commercial culture, New Netherland is "materialistic, with a profound tolerance for ethnic and religious diversity and an unflinching commitment to the freedom of inquiry and conscience," according to Woodard. It is a natural ally with Yankeedom and encompasses New York City and northern New Jersey. The area was settled by the Dutch.
    • The Midlands, largely located in the Midwest, opposes government regulation. Settled by English Quakers, The Midlands are a welcoming middle-class society that spawned the culture of the "American Heartland." Political opinion is moderate, and government regulation is frowned upon. Woodard calls the ethnically diverse Midlands "America's great swing region." Within the Midlands are parts of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, and Nebraska.
    • Tidewater started as a feudal society that embraced slavery. Tidewater was built by the young English gentry in the area around the Chesapeake Bay and North Carolina. Starting as a feudal society that embraced slavery, the region places a high value on respect for authority and tradition. Woodard notes that Tidewater is in decline, partly because "it has been eaten away by the expanding federal halos around DC and Norfolk."
    • Greater Appalachia encompasses parts of Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, and Texas. Colonized by settlers from the war-ravaged borderlands of Northern Ireland, northern England, and the Scottish lowlands, Greater Appalachia is stereotyped as the land of hillbillies and rednecks. Woodard says Appalachia values personal sovereignty and individual liberty and is "intensely suspicious of lowland aristocrats and Yankee social engineers alike." It sides with the Deep South to counter the influence of federal government. Within Greater Appalachia are parts of Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Indiana, Illinois, and Texas.
    • Deep South adopts a rigid social structure and opposition to government regulation. The Deep South was established by English slave lords from Barbados and was styled as a West Indies-style slave society, Woodard notes. It has a very rigid social structure and fights against government regulation that threatens individual liberty. Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Georgia, and South Carolina are all part of the Deep South.
    • El Norte has a dominant Hispanic culture. Composed of the borderlands of the Spanish-American empire, El Norte is "a place apart" from the rest of America, according to Woodard. Hispanic culture dominates in the area, and the region values independence, self-sufficiency, and hard work above all else. Parts of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California are in El Norte.
    • The Left Coast, located in coastal California, is a lot like Yankeedom and Greater Appalachia. Colonized by New Englanders and Appalachian Midwesterners, the Left Coast is a hybrid of "Yankee utopianism and Appalachian self-expression and exploration," Woodard says, adding that it is the staunchest ally of Yankeedom. Coastal California, Oregon, and Washington are in the Left Coast.
    • The Far West spans states in the central US including Montana, Wyoming, and Utah. The conservative west. Developed through large investment in industry, yet where inhabitants continue to "resent" the Eastern interests that initially controlled that investment. The Far West spans several states, including Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, Nebraska, Kansas, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, North Dakota, South Dakota, Washington, Oregon, and California.
    • New France inhabitants are comfortable with government involvement in the economy. A pocket of liberalism nestled in the Deep South, its people are consensus driven, tolerant, and comfortable with government involvement in the economy. Woodard says New France is among the most liberal places in North America. New France is focused around New Orleans in Louisiana as well as the Canadian province of Quebec.
    • First Nation, most of whose people live in the northern part of the country, is made up of Native Americans. Made up of Native Americans, the First Nation's members enjoy tribal sovereignty in the US. Woodard says the territory of the First Nations is huge, but its population is under 300,000, most of whose people live in the northern reaches of Canada.
    Here's a picture of the map of the 11 nations of North America:
    55b273a2371d2211008b9793.jpg

    Here's some sources on this (if you wanna read more):
    https://medium.com/s/balkanized-amer...a-f283d4c58483
    http://www.textbooksfree.org/American%20nations.htm

    And there's a book for that:
    https://www.amazon.com/American-Nati.../dp/0143122029

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    @Tim

    You mentioned the american midwest was Delta like right? Like idk suburban delta-y. I guess I can see that, people here don't smile or show emotion much and seem really serious but idk if that really has anything to do with socionics or it's a NTR thing. And it would be easy for me to use that as an excuse of why I don't like to go out to many places around here or talk to people lol. Although there are like 'Fe oasis' areas I think that actually do value merry Fe but they seem few and far between or maybe that's just America being Gamma Te/Fi valuing in general.

    I think it's so interesting. Like places that clearly value Fe, I'm given real governmental power and authority and shit- I like get power and people trust me with things so much easier. If there's lots of Fi- they want to put me in a concentration camp. (Okay that's an exaggeration) But yeah Fe vs Fi valuing can be really something can't it bro!

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    Here's what I think on their Sociotype or Quadra values


    • Yankeedom: Historically, Beta as it is a collective unconsciousness of the Puritans (who left England to create their own religious utopia). I think industrialization and the 18th century Stoic-Christian code made it more Te valuing. It is definitely aristocratic. All I know is that their culture is 126 tritype as opposed to Southerners' 683 or 863 tritype.
    • New Netherlands: LIE Culture
    • The Midlands: Delta ST. And I would extend the Midlands to all of the Midwest though. Anywhere the German farmers settled, it became the Midlands.
    • Tidewater: Originally Beta but since they're a dying cultural nation. They became Gamma due to transplants.
    • Greater Appalachia: SLE-Ti or LSI-Se
    • Deep South: Beta ST with some ESE influence.
    • El Norte: Gamma (Southern California is part of this and it is still Gamma)
    • The Left Coast: NF. Beta NF for the CHAZ utopianism and antifa violence. Delta NF might be attracted to this though.
    • The Far West: ST vibe even though Mormon are Alpha as fuck.
    • New France: Cajun is basically an integral part of Southern culture and therefore, it is Beta ST with some ESE influence. As for the Quebecois, it might be either Beta or Delta. It is aristocratic quadra. A Quebecois from one of the Facebook Socionics group think that Quebecois urban areas are more Beta while the rural areas are more Delta. However, the Quebecois are trying so hard to make Quebec more French than France itself by purging all Anglo influence from Quebec life.
    • First Nation: IEI or EII?


    The reason why America is Gamma is because their culture is dominated by both New York (LIE) and Southern California (SEE).
    Last edited by Tim; 07-21-2021 at 02:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    @Tim

    You mentioned the american midwest was Delta like right? Like idk suburban delta-y. I guess I can see that, people here don't smile or show emotion much and seem really serious but idk if that really has anything to do with socionics or it's a NTR thing. And it would be easy for me to use that as an excuse of why I don't like to go out to many places around here or talk to people lol. Although there are like 'Fe oasis' areas I think that actually do value merry Fe but they seem few and far between or maybe that's just America being Gamma Te/Fi valuing in general.

    I think it's so interesting. Like places that clearly value Fe, I'm given real governmental power and authority and shit- I like get power and people trust me with things so much easier. If there's lots of Fi- they want to put me in a concentration camp. (Okay that's an exaggeration) But yeah Fe vs Fi valuing can be really something can't it bro!
    When I was attending college in the Midwest, it irritate me that Midwesterners are so emotionally unexpressive and focused on building relations. It is a very Delta region. I would extend this to the transplant areas of the Deep South. Apparently, this lack of Fe from other places made me more proud of the Deep South. I never know how good I had it in the Deep South with their Fe valuing until I leave the place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    When I was attending college in the Midwest, it irritate me that Midwesterners are so emotionally unexpressive and focused on building relations. It is a very Delta region. I would extend this to the transplant areas of the Deep South. Apparently, this lack of Fe from other places made me more proud of the Deep South. I never know how good I had it in the Deep South with their Fe valuing until I leave the place.
    People who are monotone and have nothing to express are boring as fuck to me
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    If you don’t express anything, how is it then even a human interaction, lol. It’s constricted.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    If you don’t express anything, how is it then even a human interaction, lol. It’s constricted.
    Emotional expression is what makes us human. Without emotional expression, we're just a bunch of robots.

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    Betas be the most human
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    When I was attending college in the Midwest, it irritate me that Midwesterners are so emotionally unexpressive and focused on building relations.
    Yes well and see that's the thing- I don't think I really can build a relationship with anybody unless they are emotionally expressive. (4D unvalued Fi mixed with 3D valued Fe)

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    Most of Texas is Greater Appalachia? Wtf, lol.

    The “Midlands” I would consider Gamma of some sort over Delta ST. ESI maybe. The South some amalgamation of Beta types. Texas is SLE central.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 07-21-2021 at 02:02 PM.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    Betas be the most human
    Good God I hope not.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    The New France description sounds alpha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Most of Texas is Greater Appalachia? Wtf, lol.
    I think their methodology is that whoever settled the place first became a part of the culture. Texas was founded by Appalachian (Sam Houston, Davy Crockett, and Stephen Austin), which is why Texas speak similar accents to Southerners. We both say "y'all," "ain't," and "over yonder."

    The South some amalgamation of Beta types. Texas is SLE central.
    As a SLE, God surely bless Dixie.

    When I was attending college (a small liberal arts college) in the Midwest, there is a lot of times that I hang out with the baseball team with some of whom recruited from the South, even though I didn't play baseball (i.e. I was a college soccer player). It's a totally Beta ST environment. In that table I sat with when I was in college, we have a four Texans, a couple North Floridians, one Kentuckians, one North Louisianans, and me (a Georgian). There's also a two Californians and a Puerto Rican. The rest are local types who are various ST's. I usually say the funniest shit of what I did I do and what happen, and the environment was fun. I even offended the college president and his family sitting at the next table by my perverted sexual jokes and the fact that I am loud when I talk.
    Last edited by Tim; 07-21-2021 at 03:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    The New France description sounds alpha.
    New Orleans is more Alpha because they make the best food .


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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Good God I hope not.
    Why not? Betas just are demonized because of societal standards mitigating tolerance for emotional expression. Emotional expression has its place and hence beta types exist.. It can be a bit too intense sometimes, but expression and being sentient makes us able to interact and have relation.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    We also allow for change to happen, and are backbone of societal movement. Keep society from stagnating.

    We light the way, even if fire gets too hot.. Light way for a world unseeing
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Being most human also means being most that of an animal, so it is not fully good.. Betas are most in touch with primitive instinct, probably.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Oh that’s where everything is lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    If you don’t express anything, how is it then even a human interaction, lol. It’s constricted.
    It's called Fi valuing. Superficial Fe noise is nothing compared to deep Fi bonds.
    "Now is the time to get serious about living your ideals. How long can you afford to put off who you really want to be? Your nobler self cannot wait any longer. Put your principles into practice – now. Stop the excuses and the procrastination. This is your life! You aren’t a child anymore. The sooner you set yourself to your spiritual program, the happier you will be. The longer you wait, the more you’ll be vulnerable to mediocrity and feel filled with shame and regret, because you know you are capable of better. From this instant on, vow to stop disappointing yourself. Separate yourself from the mob. Decide to be extraordinary and do what you need to do – now." - Epictetus

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    Midwest is Delta minus black communities within which are distinctly Beta. Appalachia is the most SLE region in the country with Kentucky being a divide between Delta the further west you go and Beta the further east you go. Florida is every quadra at once.
    "Now is the time to get serious about living your ideals. How long can you afford to put off who you really want to be? Your nobler self cannot wait any longer. Put your principles into practice – now. Stop the excuses and the procrastination. This is your life! You aren’t a child anymore. The sooner you set yourself to your spiritual program, the happier you will be. The longer you wait, the more you’ll be vulnerable to mediocrity and feel filled with shame and regret, because you know you are capable of better. From this instant on, vow to stop disappointing yourself. Separate yourself from the mob. Decide to be extraordinary and do what you need to do – now." - Epictetus

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    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    It's called Fi valuing. Superficial Fe noise is nothing compared to deep Fi bonds.
    ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    It's called Fi valuing. Superficial Fe noise is nothing compared to deep Fi bonds.
    Nah, don’t say allat now. Fe is the fuchsia palette to the intricate Fi pencil sketch on the canvas of IEs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    "Now is the time to get serious about living your ideals. How long can you afford to put off who you really want to be? Your nobler self cannot wait any longer. Put your principles into practice – now. Stop the excuses and the procrastination. This is your life! You aren’t a child anymore. The sooner you set yourself to your spiritual program, the happier you will be. The longer you wait, the more you’ll be vulnerable to mediocrity and feel filled with shame and regret, because you know you are capable of better. From this instant on, vow to stop disappointing yourself. Separate yourself from the mob. Decide to be extraordinary and do what you need to do – now." - Epictetus

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    Nah, don’t say allat now. Fe is the fuchsia palette to the intricate Fi pencil sketch on the canvas of IEs.
    allat?
    "Now is the time to get serious about living your ideals. How long can you afford to put off who you really want to be? Your nobler self cannot wait any longer. Put your principles into practice – now. Stop the excuses and the procrastination. This is your life! You aren’t a child anymore. The sooner you set yourself to your spiritual program, the happier you will be. The longer you wait, the more you’ll be vulnerable to mediocrity and feel filled with shame and regret, because you know you are capable of better. From this instant on, vow to stop disappointing yourself. Separate yourself from the mob. Decide to be extraordinary and do what you need to do – now." - Epictetus

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    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    allat?
    yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    yes
    What is allat?
    "Now is the time to get serious about living your ideals. How long can you afford to put off who you really want to be? Your nobler self cannot wait any longer. Put your principles into practice – now. Stop the excuses and the procrastination. This is your life! You aren’t a child anymore. The sooner you set yourself to your spiritual program, the happier you will be. The longer you wait, the more you’ll be vulnerable to mediocrity and feel filled with shame and regret, because you know you are capable of better. From this instant on, vow to stop disappointing yourself. Separate yourself from the mob. Decide to be extraordinary and do what you need to do – now." - Epictetus

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    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    It's called Fi valuing. Superficial Fe noise is nothing compared to deep Fi bonds.
    But both have their place, and I for an IEI do value deep bonds, given I am an enneagram type 4. With Sx in my stacking..
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    You cannot form a real bond without expression, though.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Emotional expression is what makes us human. Without emotional expression, we're just a bunch of robots.
    what expression is that in your pfp, out of curiosity. My mind is having a hard time labeling it, this expression
    𝓽𝓾𝓶𝓫𝓵𝓻
    ♓︎ 𝓅𝒾𝓈𝒸𝑒𝓈 ♓︎ 𝓅𝒾𝓈𝒸𝑒𝓈
    ♍︎ 𝓋𝒾𝓇𝑔𝑜 𝓇𝒾𝓈𝒾𝓃𝑔 ♍︎

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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    what expression is that in your pfp, out of curiosity. My mind is having a hard time labeling it, this expression
    For me, it is expression of anger and enthusiasm (as this is the emotions that I expressed before I dualized) but it also encompass other emotions.

    Anger is what happen when someone insult, disrespect, and humiliate me and because of such, I'll be madder than a wet hen and I'll go for the throat. And to be honest, they do deserve my anger. I also get really angry if I lost control over certain situation. I yell when I played a game on my phone and lost that game. Another example is that one time back in college when I impose my will by asking people if they had notes from class because I didn't show up to class. Apparently, I didn't receive the notes from class and the library close at 11 AM. After the library close, I got so angry that I curse at the sky.

    I am anger and I express that anger. I get to use my anger to defend myself.

    Enthusiasm and joy is what happen when I am winning and victorious whether it is getting lucky and making it next level or using force to get what I want. I also express enthusiasm and joy when I watch a funny video or I'm in a Beta environment where I tell my loud perverted stories in public and there are people laughing and expressing.

    Apparently, anger and enthusiasm correspond with the two enneagram types in my tritype: 8s and 7s. I am focused on being neutral or expressing positive emotions but I get angry when I lose control over my situation or if someone tries to gain power over me.

    I also count dramatic sad emotions as an expression. I wasn't in touch of that aspect of emotions until I dualized with an IEI enneagram 4. After being with an IEI enneagram 4, I come to a realization that these emotions is what makes us human. People need to express that they are hurt or in emotional pain because I can't read unexpressed relations.

    If someone ain't expressive enough, then I just ended up being an Fi PoLR. That's why Fi/Te types (my whole family) often considered me as uncaring because I'm not concerned about internal relations as much as emotional expression and I like it that way. It actually annoys me being judged that way.
    Last edited by Tim; 07-27-2021 at 07:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    Midwest is Delta minus black communities within which are distinctly Beta. Appalachia is the most SLE region in the country with Kentucky being a divide between Delta the further west you go and Beta the further east you go. Florida is every quadra at once.
    This is what I think when you mentioned Appalachia (and it's pronounced AppaLATCHia) being the most SLE region.



    Appalachia being SLE could explain why an IEI (who I had been with and from Eastern Kentucky) take pride on being poor and Appalachian. Hell, I'm SLE and I considered Dixie (which includes Appalachia) to be best region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    This is what I think when you mentioned Appalachia (and it's pronounced AppaLATCHia) being the most SLE region.



    Appalachia being SLE could explain why an IEI (who I had been with and from Eastern Kentucky) take pride on being poor and Appalachian. Hell, I'm SLE and I considered Dixie (which includes Appalachia) to be best region.

    Yeah my paternal family goes back to Floyd County from the 1800s to today, being distant relatives to the McCoy's. I am very proud of that heritage, I'm a member of the Sons of Confederate Veteran's and everything which is what my family fought for in the highly divided Appalachia, but I could never live there. Poverty aside, the culture and values are too much for this SLI to integrate into. Heavily Se/Fe.

    Have you ever read Hillbilly Elegy? I was surprised at how similar the authors family was to my own before I knew about quadra values or Socionics as a whole.
    "Now is the time to get serious about living your ideals. How long can you afford to put off who you really want to be? Your nobler self cannot wait any longer. Put your principles into practice – now. Stop the excuses and the procrastination. This is your life! You aren’t a child anymore. The sooner you set yourself to your spiritual program, the happier you will be. The longer you wait, the more you’ll be vulnerable to mediocrity and feel filled with shame and regret, because you know you are capable of better. From this instant on, vow to stop disappointing yourself. Separate yourself from the mob. Decide to be extraordinary and do what you need to do – now." - Epictetus

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    I don’t think the actual region of Appalachia is Beta at all. Delta maybe.

    I’ve been in the South the last few days, mostly Alabama. My impression is that compared to where I’ve been living lately in Texas, people are much friendlier and laid back. Less SLE compared to Texas, more other Beta types, maybe some Alpha-like influence as well.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I don’t think the actual region of Appalachia is Beta at all. Delta maybe.
    I would say Appalachia is more LSI-Se or SLE-Ti whereas Texas is more SLE-Se. Texas was settled by Scotch-Irish Appalachians, and the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. Unlike Appalachia which is mountainous, Texas is flat and thus Texans adopted a more Se attitude to things. Mountains tend to favor introversion while open and flat tend to favor extraversion.

    I’ve been in the South the last few days, mostly Alabama. My impression is that compared to where I’ve been living lately in Texas, people are much friendlier and laid back. Less SLE compared to Texas, more other Beta types, maybe some Alpha-like influence as well.
    That confirms my view that the Deep South is Beta with some ESE influence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    For me, it is expression of anger and enthusiasm (as this is the emotions that I expressed before I dualized) but it also encompass other emotions.
    Interesting. I would have not guessed that. Usually an expression of enthusiasm or anger has more intensity behind the eyes. To me it looks like an expression of disgust with the way your upper lip is raised. Either that, or someone took a picture of you while you were talking.

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    @Tim

    I dunno, I really don’t see Beta in Appalachia proper. Maybe LSI, as you suggested, but SLE no. As I said, it seems more Delta/Fi-valuing to me. I’m curious why you see Beta.

    Agree on the ESE aspect of Southern culture though. People here are very friendly and open.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    @Tim

    I dunno, I really don’t see Beta in Appalachia proper. Maybe LSI, as you suggested, but SLE no. As I said, it seems more Delta/Fi-valuing to me. I’m curious why you see Beta.

    Agree on the ESE aspect of Southern culture though. People here are very friendly and open.
    My thoughts is the Culture of Honor is also prevalent in the Appalachia. Hell, the origin of the Culture of Honor according these articles I post below are from the Scotch-Irish, and Appalachia is the most Scotch-Irish region in the country. I usually associated Culture of Honor with Beta ST culture as the Culture of Honor is also prevalent in Chechnya and Afghanistan (both seem Beta ST culturally). The origin of Scotch-Irish coming to Appalachia is basically a violent warrior culture and that still is prevalent to this day. Impoverished poor areas that is the American equivalent of the Balkans often creates a Beta ST culture. I also don't think Appalachia is Ne valuing at all. I could buy LSI-Se for Appalachia. They seem to value Ti and Se. They hate Ne (unlike Scandinavia and Canada) and they could give an impression of Fi (indicating Fi Role).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Southern Culture of Honor = Beta ST

    https://boblane.com/2014/02/03/culture-of-honour/
    https://www.artofmanliness.com/artic...merican-south/

    Emotional Response to an Insult between Northern and Southern Subjects:
    Attachment 17171
    Last edited by Tim; 07-26-2021 at 01:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    My thoughts is the Culture of Honor is also prevalent in the Appalachia. Hell, the origin of the Culture of Honor according these articles I post below are from the Scotch-Irish, and Appalachia is the most Scotch-Irish region in the country. I usually associated Culture of Honor with Beta ST culture as the Culture of Honor is also prevalent in Chechnya and Afghanistan (both seem Beta ST culturally). The origin of Scotch-Irish coming to Appalachia is basically a violent warrior culture and that still is prevalent to this day. Impoverished poor areas that is the American equivalent of the Balkans often creates a Beta ST culture. I also don't think Appalachia is Ne valuing at all. I could buy LSI-Se for Appalachia. They seem to value Ti and Se. They hate Ne (unlike Scandinavia and Canada) and they could give an impression of Fi (indicating Fi Role).
    Yeah that's good point with the culture of honor. I think the main difference with the Appalachia and deep South is that the deep south is much heavier on the Fe aspect than the Appalachia, to the point where it almost seems like a synchronization of SLE-Se and ESE-Fe at once. Whereas the Appalachia I still see SLE-Ti but can see LSI-Se too. It is much more subdued with Fe, being a highly valued but not strong function of the region, unlike the deep South where it is both valued and strong.

    I absolutely cannot see Delta at all. If one contrast the Delta regions of Kentucky, Ohio, and Pennsylvania with the Appalachia in those states and see the same mentality and values and no sharp contrast, then they're out of their mind. LSE, IEE, and EII are a huuuuge no way. SLI, not as huge as a no way but definitely not the case, as the Se beats out the Si and definitely not a Fe polr or Ne seeking region. The contrast with the Beta regions of Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama with the Appalachia in those states are far less of a contrast and lot less noticeable.
    "Now is the time to get serious about living your ideals. How long can you afford to put off who you really want to be? Your nobler self cannot wait any longer. Put your principles into practice – now. Stop the excuses and the procrastination. This is your life! You aren’t a child anymore. The sooner you set yourself to your spiritual program, the happier you will be. The longer you wait, the more you’ll be vulnerable to mediocrity and feel filled with shame and regret, because you know you are capable of better. From this instant on, vow to stop disappointing yourself. Separate yourself from the mob. Decide to be extraordinary and do what you need to do – now." - Epictetus

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    New Netherlands:


    Manhattan and historical "south brooklyn": Gamma

    Outer boroughs: Delta/Beta mix; mostly slow-paced ethnic/immigrant neighborhoods, ghettoes and laidback transplants/bohemians from the midwest
    Last edited by Averroes; 07-27-2021 at 03:23 PM.

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