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Thread: Ni and Increased tendency for clinical depression

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    I don't personally feel very prone to depression. I've certainly felt depressed and been to therapy for it before, but if we're talking about the actual disorder then I don't feel like Ni-base types are really
    that much more prone to it. I'm much better now, and it only really lasted a couple years
    I think that's a good point. I think Ni-ego can sometimes make you seem more sad than what you really are. IEIs can be very 'contained' I think despite the 3D Fe valuing.

    And ILIs have their creative 3D valued Te to fall back on so are usually being a bit more productive or more logical than us and in crude American society people tend to think as long as you have a job and are doing something and not being emotional or appearing as "emo" than everything is fine. ((even when it might not be but.. lol))

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    I am an IEI who has 'put up with' mental health problems for a long time. I don't think we are as likely to recognise our depression as other types because it feels like a natural part of us. It's perhaps harder to see when it's getting out of hand.

    When I was younger and read descriptions of anxiety and depression on health websites I found it hard to relate to the descriptions, even though now I can recognise I was moderately to extremely depressed and nervous all the time. I think this is because I didn't really have anything to compare it to, there weren't any times I felt motivated and carefree (as an adult). So I always thought that to be suffering from anxiety of depression you needed to have really obvious symptoms like crying a lot, feeling very dark and low or having panic attacks/ overwhelming panic like you might get before an interview for example. The shift I felt in the last year is very subtle. I still like to complain about stuff and get anxious about things but I have stopped dwelling on my mistakes so much and catastrophising things I am worried about so much. I can see that that isn't normal behaviour and I shouldn't accept it as just being 'part of my personality' or something that 'can't be helped'.

    I think moderate depression and anxiety is something people often put up with for a long time before getting help. Perhaps more so people for people from working class backgrounds and maybe some other groups without much representation in the media. It might be a bit better now compared to when I was younger though.
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-22-2021 at 07:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I think moderate depression and anxiety is something people often put up with for a long time before getting help. Perhaps more so people for people from working class backgrounds and maybe some other groups without much representation in the media. It might be a bit better now compared to when I was younger though.
    Yeah, I think you're right about people tending to just "put up with" mild to moderate depression. The only reason I ever got treatment was because I was studying psych in college at the time and my university offered free mental health services included in the cost of tuition. My university's psychologists were lovely, and I even got to choose which therapist I wanted based on what school of psychology they were most versed in. Naturally I chose a therapist trained in the psychodynamic approach and she was so great to me. I had been feeling moderately depressed for over a year and then I went to therapy for about 8 months. They gave me a test before and after therapy to measure my change in anxiety and depression levels, and they improved massively. Unfortunately I know that therapy won't necessarily work for everyone, and some people don't even have access to it, but it was an amazing experience for me, and I would strongly encourage people to seek it out if it's at all a possibility even if your symptoms "aren't that bad." There's a lot of people who I think could be so much happier if they just humbled themselves and went to therapy for awhile
    猫が生き甲斐

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    IEIs can be very 'contained' I think despite the 3D Fe valuing.
    Yes, in a way. I find it's got a lot to do with how comfortable I feel with the people around me and how interested they seem to be in me. If people don't seem to be trying to understand how I feel then I just won't share my feelings with them in the first place because sharing and then having them "not care enough" (or perhaps more accurately: not demonstrate that they care in the particular way that matters to me) hurts me more than just keeping them to myself does. I'm at least somewhat able to self-medicate and don't really feel like I need someone else to share with in order to be okay. Obviously I would much prefer to share with a trusted confidant, but it isn't absolutely necessary for my well-being
    猫が生き甲斐

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    Ooh @AWellArmedCat just realized I'm IEI-Ni and you're a IEI-Fe. So the containment thing I said is probably more true of IEI-Nis. ((what I like about both Fe & Se is how it explodes in your face. lol.))

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    Our IEI coworker is pregnant and she was at the brink of crying today. Mind you pregnancy can be an emotional roller coaster but I feel like she’s been especially victim like blaming all her troubles at work. I asked her if she would like to go home but I sense that they didn’t plans the costs of pregnancy and childbirth since she needs to or plans to work until the last day
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    i personally think Pi doms are most prone to depression, but it kind of depends how one defines depression... i mean Pi dom depression involves a lot of withdrawal and being in one's head and i'm not sure that's the case as much for some types. like some people express depression in a much more volatile interactive way... it may not be reasonable for me to say "most prone" at all because i feel i'm just reflecting my own vantage point.

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    I don't think being introspective of the future has anything to do with depression, It's the inability to experience pleasure, which is equally likely with any type. The reason most Ni egos seem more “depressed” is because of Si PoLR, Si usually promotes conventionality and comfort and Si valueings tend to suppress their darker thoughts and basically don't enjoy being miserable like Ni-Se's do. Also IP types are naturally very inactive and don't get that involved in life which can look like depression from the outside.

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    @BandD Yeah, I bet you're right! When I'm feeling bad I tend to scream my problems away with some metalcore karaoke. I usually feel much better after that lol
    猫が生き甲斐

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    The fact you edited this is confusing because whatever you did I still have no idea what the fuck you just said.
    But I was able to decipher your meaning, despite your short post managing to contain several errors on a par of stupefying gibberish with calling an imaginary, hypothetical scenario a 'fact':

    "The reason Ni dom's are more depressed than other types is the fact that if you dropped them in a crowd..."

    ps It is in fact a fact that I edited that post (and yes, this one, too), so you do seem to know what 'fact' means intermittently. Persevere!
    Last edited by roshanak; 07-22-2021 at 08:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roshanak View Post
    But I was able to decipher your meaning, despite your short post managing to contain several errors on a par of stupefying gibberish with calling an imaginary, hypothetical scenario a 'fact':

    "The reason Ni dom's are more depressed than other types is the fact that if you dropped them in a crowd..."

    ps It is in fact a fact that I edited that post (and yes, this one, too), so you do seem to know what 'fact' means intermittently. Persevere!
    I used a hypothetical scenario to demonstrate a point. That's what they're for in case you didn't now. Albeit it wasn't the best example(probably more accurate for Fe than it is Ni because of the social setting, though it still does show an inability to handle and push themselves in the real world, which was the point I wanted to make).

    Also what does this have to do with facts? I was trying to demonstrate an explanation for why Ni dom types would be more depressed, not trying to collect data to figure out if was 100% true (though if you want data I can find some).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post

    Also what does this have to do with facts?
    Nothing. It has absolutely nothing to do with facts. And you didn't understand that that's what I said?

    "....despite your short post managing to contain several errors on a par of stupefying gibberish with calling an imaginary, hypothetical scenario a 'fact':

    'The reason Ni dom's are more depressed than other types is the fact that if you dropped them in a crowd...'

    I suggest you seriously consider that you are "stuck in [your] own head" before you concern yourself with whether Ni doms or anyone else are stuck in theirs.

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roshanak View Post
    Nothing. It has absolutely nothing to do with facts. And you didn't understand that that's what I said?

    "....despite your short post managing to contain several errors on a par of stupefying gibberish with calling an imaginary, hypothetical scenario a 'fact':

    'The reason Ni dom's are more depressed than other types is the fact that if you dropped them in a crowd...'

    I suggest you seriously consider that you are "stuck in [your] own head" before you concern yourself with whether Ni doms or anyone else are stuck in theirs.

    Cheers.
    Yes, it is a fact.
    I have personally forced many Ni dom's out of their homes and dropped them in the middle of crowded areas and they have always started to cry. They even cry before I remove the blindfold, they can just sense the people and immediately breakdown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    They even cry before I remove the blindfold, they can just sense the people and immediately breakdown.
    Perhaps they are crying because they will miss you.

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    My guesa is Ni's desire to follow a meaningful path leads them to anxiety once that path is met with a cognitive functional possibility other than Ni.

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    Ni can bring a great amount of optimism as well as cynicism.

    Ni can help bring people through a tragedy or help them see the light at the end of hopeless circumstances.

    It can also make every action seem pointless and life look all too short and limited.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE-Fe | WELP | 3w4 sx/so

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    I sometimes struggle with depression. It seems to come and go in waves, with a period of weeks or months. I wish I knew what causes it.

    Right now, I can feel myself sliding into a depressed state. Nothing seems to be working, nothing is settled, large problems are looming on the horizon and I can’t see them clearly. I’m also not frantically running around in the present to distract myself from my thoughts and concerns.

    I want to choose a path forward but I can’t see the futures distinctly. Maybe I’m shutting down my social interactions to better concentrate on the problem of choosing that path.

    I’ve thought about talking to various people about what they might see in the future, but I’ve had poor luck with this before. Other people just don’t look at this problem the way I do, and they have different priorities.
    I think that the help I need would take the form of someone just being there and being generally supportive.

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    I know some other LIEs who, between projects, seem to shut down, become uncertain (but are still jerks), and act selfishly. I hate it when LIEs switch from generous to selfish. Selfish plus Asshole is not a pleasant combination.

    I think there have been long periods in my life when I looked like I was clinically depressed. But when you are deep into it, you can’t see it. It feels normal.

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    @Adam Strange hope you’re ok. Hope you figure out your path forward. And have someone to chat to I’ve felt so rubbish at times the last year but slowly I started to feel a bit better. I’m not there yet but it’s getting a bit easier. Feels like there’s hope again

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    It seems like centrality would be a factor in causing depression since betas and gammas are more demanding on themselves in terms of how they 'perform' or what they obtain. Being more demanding in life leads to more expectations, which increases the chance of those expectations not being met.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

    ~Nietzsche

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    Ni types think they suffer more than everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Ni types think they suffer more than everyone.

    Hmm, possible.

    In Meyers-Briggs, INFJs (close to Socionics IEIs) are called "Tragic-Romantics", and INTJs (close to Socionics ILIs) just suffer because they are surrounded by idiots who have it out for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Ni types think they suffer more than everyone.
    well yes it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Hmm, possible.

    In Meyers-Briggs, INFJs (close to Socionics IEIs) are called "Tragic-Romantics", and INTJs (close to Socionics ILIs) just suffer because they are surrounded by idiots who have it out for them.
    MBTI is only valid if used to show that Ni types are the most depressed. Otherwise gtfo with that useless MBTI nonsense, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    MBTI is only valid if used to show that Ni types are the most depressed. Otherwise gtfo with that useless MBTI nonsense, right?

    Yes, Poptart, MBTI is mostly chaotic, but I read a lot of it before I found Socioinics. It contains a LOT of bad stereotypes and anecdotal stories, but then, sometimes there is a sliver of truth in those anecdotes.

    I take what I need and I leave the rest.

    MBTI consistently says that ENTJ's best partners are the INTPs. Well, for the best partner in crime, perhaps yes, but as a partner in life, No way.

    I actually know an LIE who is married to an LII. They fight. All the time.

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    I mean MBTI does not translate to Socio type per say. I am Fi-Ne by MBTI and yet Ni-Fe by Socionics. The definitions and the positions within the system change.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Ni and Fe in Socionics change. Fe in MBTI is about harmony at the uttermost level. Fi is more about values and expressing oneself regardless of if it violates harmony, yet expression in Socio is more Fe affiliated, when in an outward, extroverting way.

    Harmony in Socionics is more in line with Si. It is not this way in MBTI, the Fe is the harmony.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Hmm, possible.

    In Meyers-Briggs, INFJs (close to Socionics IEIs) are called "Tragic-Romantics", and INTJs (close to Socionics ILIs) just suffer because they are surrounded by idiots who have it out for them.
    LII and EII seem like types that might commonly suffer from depression. Maybe to do with ni being their demonstrative..?

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    Adding to my original thesis of this thread, the PolR functions that are in an IEI and ILI are quite impairing to society. The ILI is more monotone and cannot as well expressive of self, gets assumed as a stoic robot and may lesser likely from others, hire. And us IEI have PoLR Te, and Te is the heart of most societies. And we will face many issue, plethoras where it will be harder organize, work, explain our viewpoint, etc

    (This increases rate/likelihood of depression)
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Ni types think they suffer the most.

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    I mean.. Just look at all the stars who have taken their life. Majority are IEI. Kurt Cobain, Ian Curtis, Sylvia Plath, River Phoenix (half suicide), Chester Bennington, Avicci, Dylan Kleboid (Murder-suicide), Adam Lanza (also murder-suicide)…

    The Te society is too much for them, and it is their PolR.

    Robert Williams is one of only examples where I can think of a committed suicide that is not IEI.

    Amy Winehouse may? HAve been IEI? She is probably IEI or ESI, I do not know enough about her… But ESI vibes I can feel…
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    IEI is linked to Social 4 (I my own self am an IEI social 4), and social 4’s are very melancholic and depressive.. Majority of stars who have taken their life indeed, are 4 core. Every star from that list is probably 4 core.. Whereas Robin Williams could possibly have been a 7. But 4 definitely was his secondary type…
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    I always thought Amy Winehouse was EIE.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

    ~Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    I always thought Amy Winehouse was EIE.
    She could be, I do not know enough about her to say what she is.. But I do imagine she was a 4 core as well
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Can you think of reasons why other types might be prone to depression?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Can you think of reasons why other types might be prone to depression?
    Any type can face depression if having had adverse experiences.. And if they do not have what needs for them (which would be information elements in this scenario).. But with how the world is, not as much. I think with Ni looking at the whole landscape of things and seeing how devastating humanity is and repeatedly seeing the pattern, especially an IEI who with their Fe focuses more on social trends, will make for much more ease, depression.

    I do not think it is coincidental most of us who are IEI are social 4, the most depressive type, and also most star suicides have been IEI (and social 4)..

    But any type can face depression if having had bad childhood, facing divorce, etc.. In Socionics context, a bad childhood can stem from having clashing information elements, and divorce, marrying incompatible type, but these are afar from only reasons.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


  37. #77
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    I wouldn't say Ni in of itself actively deals with the past, it's naturally related to prognostication but the account or comparison to the past is more of an unconscious process.
    That description would somewhat better describe Si. And before anyone comes at me for this - yes, Si egos aren't as oblivious to the future as much as many would like to believe. At the end of the day, which is the type most likely to neurotically schedule their day ahead and make obscenely detailed plans related to the future that they stick to and dogmatically follow? It's them, namely SLIs as well as Ni PoLRs.

    Having low or little to no Ni is what's actually bound to compel you to actively worry about the future more than having Ni high up our fxn stack. As for actual Ni egos, making a mental model in their heads re: how things are likely to play out is an automatic process they don't struggle with so there's often less anxiety involved what will come or "the future" archetypally.

    As for the actual question at hand - no, not really. All people have a natural proclivity towards feeling emotions (intensely or not), regardless of their type. One of which being "depression". It could be just a fleeting moment of it and/or often is something that's been directly caused by your normal reaction to environmental circumstances, at the end of the day we're all human beings.

    When it reaches a point of becoming habitual and prolonged enough for it to roughly fit the diagnostic criteria of what we might describe as clinical depression, then we describe it as such but it's not at all type-related. The notion of clinical depression in of itself is relatively subjective too since it's all essentially dependent on someone's personal interpretation of behaviour symptomatically as per DSM or whichever other manual in relation to the abstract idea of the disorder. The causation could obviously also be simply related to someone not being neurotypical (the problem being rooted in one's brain structure) but that isn't required for a diagnosis.

    It's also quite odd you've begun to type yourself IEI since you're likely Ne ego, hence this seemingly unrelated connection between depression and supposed Ni usage.
    You've also been typed EII/IEE more than enough times among other online Socionics circles (maybe not this forum particular). That's not to say that social consensus should dictate truth or that correlation always equals causation but as far as i'm personally concerned, the case of your type is one of the few i agree with a lot of the Discord typists with on.
    I AM YOUR HOLY TOTEM
    I AM YOUR SICK TABOO
    RADICAL AND RADIANT
    I'M YOUR NIGHTMARE COMING TRUE

    I AM YOUR WORST ENEMY
    I AM YOUR DEAREST FRIEND
    MALIGNANTLY MALEVOLENT
    I AM OF DIVINE DESCENT


    I AM YOUR UNCONSCIOUSNESS
    I AM UNRESTRAINED EXCESS
    METAMORPHIC RESTLESSNESS
    I'M YOUR UNEXPECTEDNESS

    I AM YOUR APOCALYPSE
    I AM YOUR BELIEF UNWROUGHT
    MONOLITHIC JUGGERNAUT

    STRAY BULLET
    FROM THE HEAVENS ABOVE
    STRAY BULLET
    READY OR NOT
    I'M THE ILLEGITIMATE SON OF GOD


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    I think Te PolR adds an extra boost as well.. SEI also has Te PolR, but their Si makes them more pragmatic in some ways than of us. IEI as a stereotype is the depressive poet (which stereotypes are not always an accuracy, but..)

    Society is based on a very Te premise and wants everyone be made into efficiency. Ni can be indolent and into inertia, and we need Se to knock us out. Integrity can make one more depressive..
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Can you think of reasons why other types might be prone to depression?
    Alpha SF - maybe if they are experiencing constant personal conflicts, social isolation could be a cause also. I think they are one of the most sensitive types to these things

    Those are two main causes of depression
    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by serenaeva View Post
    I wouldn't say Ni in of itself actively deals with the past, it's naturally related to prognostication but the account or comparison to the past is more of an unconscious process.
    That description would somewhat better describe Si. And before anyone comes at me for this - yes, Si egos aren't as oblivious to the future as much as many would like to believe. At the end of the day, which is the type most likely to neurotically schedule their day ahead and make obscenely detailed plans related to the future that they stick to and dogmatically follow? It's them, namely SLIs as well as Ni PoLRs.

    Having low or little to no Ni is what's actually bound to compel you to actively worry about the future more than having Ni high up our fxn stack. As for actual Ni egos, making a mental model in their heads re: how things are likely to play out is an automatic process they don't struggle with so there's often less anxiety involved what will come or "the future" archetypally.

    As for the actual question at hand - no, not really. All people have a natural proclivity towards feeling emotions (intensely or not), regardless of their type. One of which being "depression". It could be just a fleeting moment of it and/or often is something that's been directly caused by your normal reaction to environmental circumstances, at the end of the day we're all human beings.

    When it reaches a point of becoming habitual and prolonged enough for it to roughly fit the diagnostic criteria of what we might describe as clinical depression, then we describe it as such but it's not at all type-related. The notion of clinical depression in of itself is relatively subjective too since it's all essentially dependent on someone's personal interpretation of behaviour symptomatically as per DSM or whichever other manual in relation to the abstract idea of the disorder. The causation could obviously also be simply related to someone not being neurotypical (the problem being rooted in one's brain structure) but that isn't required for a diagnosis.

    It's also quite odd you've begun to type yourself IEI since you're likely Ne ego, hence this seemingly unrelated connection between depression and supposed Ni usage.
    You've also been typed EII/IEE more than enough times among other online Socionics circles (maybe not this forum particular). That's not to say that social consensus should dictate truth or that correlation always equals causation but as far as i'm personally concerned, the case of your type is one of the few i agree with a lot of the Discord typists with on.
    I for a long while typed as EII, because I had found Ne ignoring weird for me.. But I do think in Socionics, I would probably be an Fe ego, with how expressive I am. I don’t think I would have Ti as a PolR function and ignore Ni, either.. If I am an Ne ego, I would say it would be EII-Ne, but the issue comes down to Fe ignoring for me on that.. IEI is far from perfection, but I do seem to be more expressive than would expect in an EII. I do think there are a lot of really bad typists int he discord community, and they just push their agenda and do not even bother to actually get know the person, and it is frustrating.. There were too few of people who actually got to know me, and they just enforced me as EIE, still some do..

    I don’t think EII is impossible for me. I am around 75% on IEI and 25% EII..
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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