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Thread: ESIs, Idealism & Loyalty

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    Default ESIs, Idealism & Loyalty

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    Last edited by chocolatte; 07-22-2021 at 10:17 PM.

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    Remember, an ESI's Dual is an LIE, and it takes time to get rich.

    jk.

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    They just sound phobic to me. Like something what is "real" in their life should actually matter without a rigorous proof.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
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    I've known ESIs who weren't loyal and not many were idealistic. Most were realistic and practical in the sense that they knew which side of the bread the butter was on. Normal, self-confident ESIs usually can detach themselves from non-contributing people quite easily. One thing that's common amongst ESIs is that they seem to think that their behaviour is the most appropriate and that others should do the same; a rare few may even become martyrs to their causes. However, idealism is expected more from N-types while all types are capable of loyalty but one shouldn't confuse loyalty with being able to put up with abuse.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    In terms of Idealism via HA-Ni, ESI:

    --Thinks about the dangers and negative outcomes that threaten her and her relatives (may manifest as putting others first)
    --Looks for philosophical and mystical ways of reasoning to attain a sense of protection from the vagaries of fate (may manifest as being religious)
    --Has a good memory for the mistakes, failures, and shocks of the past, from which they draw lessons for the future (may manifest as being a responsible, upstanding citizen)

    Source: Gulenko
    Last edited by pandemic candy; 07-06-2021 at 11:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    In terms of Idealism via HA-Ni, ESI: .....
    So-called hidden agendas are typically processes that types desire or admire but people tend to revert to their primary agendas before anything substantial is realized; they normally have to get at it through others. Even though most XSIs may try to secure somewhat ideal futures, they tend to be too realistic for risky, blue-sky thinking so will usually settle for something less.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    So-called hidden agendas are typically processes that types desire or admire but people tend to revert to their primary agendas before anything substantial is realized; they normally have to get at it through others. Even though most XSIs may try to secure somewhat ideal futures, they tend to be too realistic for risky, blue-sky thinking so will usually settle for something less.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Sometimes, much less.

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    Maybe there’s overlap in Fi lead as it relates to idealism and that not all of it is accounted for by Ne in case of EIIs

    I have not really known ESIs except for one friend I had. I think she saw me the wrong way even though initially she was very caring and listened to stuff I was going through at the time and encouraged me to come to her and other friends I had. At one point she didn’t say anything and cut off the friendship, stopped responding to my text etc. and I knew it would be a bad idea to try to present any ideas to however she saw me at the time, or attempt to persuade in any way, so I left it. That’s how it ended.

    im not saying she would never change her mind ever, idk. But yeah…my guess as for subtype is Fi.

    Another possible ESI - possibly SO first. She seemed to get super nervous for an activity where we kind of had to simulate a "new" or creative response to something and just say it out loud...
    anyways, possibly Harmonizing subtype; she would literally just let me talk and be myself and seemed comfortable just listening and reflecting. I did like her but we didn't end up as closer friends I guess.
    Last edited by necrosebud; 07-06-2021 at 03:19 PM.

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    I don't really view ESIs as all that idealistic , they are worldly adult Gammas after all. IEIs are usually much more idealistic. I guess maybe it comes off this way sometimes because ESI is supposed to 'correct' Gamma. Like ESIs and SEEs are often the nicest Gammas to me, ILIs the cruelest- LIE is a mix bag. ((can be an insufferable asshole- but also can be very empathetic despite supervising me.)) And well- I don't blame them, I deserve to be supervised at times, sure. =p

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    .1. What is the difference between ESI and NF idealism
    NF idealism is about of vision of a better future, mostly in relation to people. ESI "idealism" is about Fi, about correctness and defending (Se) the correct moral and ethical stance.

    2. Ages ago, I roughly recall reading an MBTI post stating that ISFPs are often very idealistic of people at the beginning stages of a relationship, until realizing the reality of the situation and swinging the opposite way. Is this true?
    MBTI is a mess, I don't take mbti and their trying to fit every stereotype and the functions into the letters very seriously. The mbti ISFJs and their traditions and values are more close the the ESI definition of the Fi-Se IMO. Idealism in relationships is true to every type, only their way of idealizing will be different. Well integrated types will be less "dreamers" let's say.


    what makes ESIs so unwaveringly loyal? Whether or not they are 6s.
    it's important to understand that 6's aren't loyal out of actual loyalty, they are loyal out of subconscious fear, their strategy for surviving was to treat well institutions and powerful people, that way they can get out of trouble and make sure nobody is trying to find trouble. In the case of ESI, their loyalty is simmilar to the EII, their loyalty is to that Fi base. They are loyal to their principles and values, that by chance are also generally accepted as objectively ethical and all. Meaning their values doesn't usually belongs to a certain group culture or time as would do Fe values, they are actually timeless although perceived subjectively.

    Even if I care deeply, I'm not good at consistently keeping in touch with people long-distance/online, but my longtime ESI 4 friend is just so dang loyal even if we go 6 months without really talking. I keep feeling like-- this is it-- she's going to get sick of my inconsistency and start moving on, but she never leaves.
    Oh, that kind of loyalty, yeah if you haven't break deep values, you can change all you want and they don't give a damn. You can appear a priest one year and a satanist leader another year, they will still love you as long as you're not frying little kids in the oven. I think they are democratic about people's way of living. Also, it's not so much about what you do but about who you are, if you act different but they sense you are still the same in essence then there is nothing to worry.

    Maybe I can't comprehend base Fi. My feelings for others seem to constantly be internally adjusting and recalibrating, and although I'm pretty loyal, I would never be unwaveringly loyal to someone for forever. Only for right now and later. If you get what I'm saying.
    In the Jungian model Fi base are rational types while Ni base are irrational (not to be taken as insult, it's just how the swiss worded it lol), so it's only natural for you to say that. Rational types need sense, they need to stay truth to that reasoning function. Now, Ni in your case is not a reasoning function but a perceptive one, so it's constantly changing according to what happens, I can't talk much about it 'cause I don't understand it very well, but you must know that you are probably not a very rigid person when it comes to how you process ethical information.
    Last edited by Lincatrope; 07-20-2021 at 12:35 AM.

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