Which Quadra do you think is mostly to be Woke SJW? And my reasoning on why I think American Woke SJW is most likely Beta not Delta.

[Tim]

It seems to me that many 16types forum members considered Woke SJW as "Delta" and not "Beta." Meanwhile, the Facebook and Discord Socionics Community considered Woke SJW as a Beta ideology. I understand the arguments being put forth here as being "Delta". There are arguments that said that Woke SJW ideology are common in Delta countries (i.e. New Zealand, Scandinavia, and Canada) and thus considered normal. Some argued that SJW take the fun out of everything and make more things bland and non-offensive to anything, which many argued as Fi+Si. Others even argued that Woke SJW is progress that is mere Delta morality and ignorant of power structures.

An example of where the16types forum members considered "Woke SJW" as Delta and not Beta:

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...bad-stereotype

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...majority/page2

However, if you considered the values of Woke SJW, it is clearly Beta. The mostly likely type to be an Woke SJW is an Beta Rational, Core Prussian 6 Enneagram, 612/682 Tritype, and SO/SX or SX/SO. Just to know, I'm right-wing Southern populist and while these Woke SJW are my ideological enemies, I considered them to be Beta Quadra. An argument against the idea that "NZ, CAN, and Scandinavia are Delta, therefore SJW are Delta" is that Delta is the type of people who let ideological currents creep up quietly until it starts to affect their families, workplaces, and sanity. Delta just allowed it to happen. By the way, some forum members slightly mixed up MBTI with Socionics in which "I believe x strongly and I don't care about making you uncomfortable" as Fi but when applied to Socionics, that's just devalued Si as Si meant being comfortable.

Here's what I break down on the reasoning behind Woke SJW being Beta and not other Quadra (Delta):

Fe: Woke SJW ideology requires compelling rhetoric aimed at stirring the emotions.

Ti: Woke SJW requires disputes over the precise meanings and appropriate use of phrase. There is also an emphasis on categorization of social group identities.

Se: Woke SJW have an attention to power and direct campaigns. It is a perception on who have the power and who doesn't have the power. Besides, screaming in people's faces at restaurants and tearing statue downs is the manifestation of Fe+Se.

Ni: Woke SJW have a grand narratives and long-term visions for a perfect utopian society.

I do think Delta and Alpha could be Woke SJW but they are often unaware of the revolution and vision that Beta Woke SJW is trying to create. I also do think their enemies are also Beta. Far-right nationalists, dissident right-wingers, and religious fundamentalist are Betas. Similarly, in the American Right, Delta ST Midwesterners just allowed ideological currents from the Beta ST Southerners until it gets insane or affect their lives. Those with radical ideas on how to transform society is Beta. The biggest enemies of Beta are other Beta.

Gulenko did comment on how Beta is attempting to apply Delta values by force in America and how he thinks this is not how you create a Delta: https://socioniks.net/consultation/?...oKcF0hIo8C6wJM

[peteronfireee2]

Hmm...

I dunno @Tim

Woke SJW is left / liberal ideology, characterized by political correctness (using "trusted" sources only) which I think is tied more to Fi / Te. Ex: Wearing COVID masks because that's what's politically correct

Whereas, the right / conservative ideology is characterized by speculation/conspiracy (using any source) which I think is tied more to Ti / Fe. Ex: Not wearing COVID masks because they think it's a conspiracy

I could be wrong/partly right, I'm not too sure lol

[Tim]

Bump

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Potentially any quadra can do this. The problem with 'SJW' is it's kind of like an all purpose insult, it's sort of the new 'gay.' Many social justice things have been progressive and beneficial for society. Making it seem like socially progressive things are bad just because certain people are Gestapo-like with them isn't good. I don't want to live in a world where black people weren't considered human (or only 33% human) or it was legal to keep them a slaves - gay men had no civil rights & could not be out of closet due to the Hays code etc, and women were kept out of a lot of business things or social activities because 'her place is in the kitchen' and trans people are kept invisible and murdered etc. I don't want to live in a world where the only opinion that's considered valid is a white straight thinking man's opinion just because it's not cool to be a "SJW."

When people are talking about 'SJWness' in a negative light though they usually mean somebody trying to overly police behavior or language (ie 'thought police') to take into account personal emotional sensitivities (Fi) - and that is a very Delta thing. "We have to cancel this show because it MIGHT hurt the queer Owlkins!" (Ne + Fi valuing) Or totally ignoring the reality of when a minority community is doing something negative on the grounds that we should always look at them as victim-y helpless angels because they've been discriminated against in the past. The reverse of this is bigots using that an excuse to harm all people of that group.

It seems like it's mostly Delta because of the the Te enforcing Fi. Beta SJWisms is more natural and organic- kind of a street/earth Ti purity thing. A Beta SJW might want society to more 'naturally respect' a certain person of a group than care so much how they are being treated in a Te sense. IEEs & EIIs SJWs will often get involved in these politically correct institutions that annoy IEI & EIE SJWs.

Don't think Alpha and Gamma can't be SJWs too though. They just go under the radar more because their quadras are democratic not aristocratic. They are just kinda more 'steathly' with it and not as 'in your face' for this reason- but it's still there. I know plenty of SEE, ESE & ESI SJWs. LIEs can even be allies and support the causes even though they don't do much work themselves in that area.

It's mostly a NF or SF thing more than quadra related- ST/NT types aren't as hypersensitive about it or think about it as much because they are thinking types and a lot of the SJW crap is really just way too heavy on the F. They care more about thinking how things logically work than social feel processes or humanitarian concerns. But I mean if they saw somebody they care about get truly discriminated against for real instead of just being 'whiny' they too would feel bad and stand up for them. My ILE friend is sort of a "SJW" for this reason. A straight man is likely to punch another straight man in the face if he's being too much of a jerk to his wife etc.

The problem with a lot of the thought policing and overly zealous SJWisms is they don't want to let things go or forgive - and they want to turn minorities into the next straight white male rapist master abusers. They want to be the ones holding the whip- instead of seeing how the 'whip' itself is the problem. (or the abusive Te or Ti - as I get down on Te a lot but Ti and its stupid need to overly categorize everything can also be an issue.) Many people don't really want to end prejudice or discrimination or injustice- they want to be the ones holding the whip. So in order to do this they need to always be the righteous victims, and the people they are reverse-discriminating against need to always be the offenders. That's the true ugly bad thing about being a 'SJW.' But that doesn't mean it's okay to be a bigoted and hateful prick either.

The more you knoooooow.

[Beautiful sky]

Potentially any quadra can do this. The problem with 'SJW' is it's kind of like an all purpose insult, it's sort of the new 'gay.' Many social justice things have been progressive and beneficial for society. Making it seem like socially progressive things are bad just because certain people are Gestapo-like with them isn't good. I don't want to live in a world where black people weren't considered human (or only 33% human) or it was legal to keep them a slaves - gay men had no civil rights & could not be out of closet due to the Hays code etc, and women were kept out of a lot of business things or social activities because 'her place is in the kitchen' and trans people are kept invisible and murdered etc. I don't want to live in a world where the only opinion that's considered valid is a white straight thinking man's opinion just because it's not cool to be a "SJW."

When people are talking about 'SJWness' in a negative light though they usually mean somebody trying to overly police behavior or language (ie 'thought police') to take into account personal emotional sensitivities (Fi) - and that is a very Delta thing. "We have to cancel this show because it MIGHT hurt the queer Owlkins!" (Ne + Fi valuing) Or totally ignoring the reality of when a minority community is doing something negative on the grounds that we should always look at them as victim-y helpless angels because they've been discriminated against in the past. The reverse of this is bigots using that an excuse to harm all people of that group.

It seems like it's mostly Delta because of the the Te enforcing Fi. Beta SJWisms is more natural and organic- kind of a street/earth Ti purity thing. A Beta SJW might want society to more 'naturally respect' a certain person of a group than care so much how they are being treated in a Te sense. IEEs & EIIs SJWs will often get involved in these politically correct institutions that annoy IEI & EIE SJWs.

Don't think Alpha and Gamma can't be SJWs too though. They just go under the radar more because their quadras are democratic not aristocratic. They are just kinda more 'steathly' with it and not as 'in your face' for this reason- but it's still there. I know plenty of SEE, ESE & ESI SJWs. LIEs can even be allies and support the causes even though they don't do much work themselves in that area.

It's mostly a NF or SF thing more than quadra related- ST/NT types aren't as hypersensitive about it or think about it as much because they are thinking types and a lot of the SJW crap is really just way too heavy on the F. They care more about thinking how things logically work than social feel processes or humanitarian concerns. But I mean if they saw somebody they care about get truly discriminated against for real instead of just being 'whiny' they too would feel bad and stand up for them. My ILE friend is sort of a "SJW" for this reason. A straight man is likely to punch another straight man in the face if he's being too much of a jerk to his wife etc.

The problem with a lot of the thought policing and overly zealous SJWisms is they don't want to let things go or forgive - and they want to turn minorities into the next straight white male rapist master abusers. They want to be the ones holding the whip- instead of seeing how the 'whip' itself is the problem. (or the abusive Te or Ti - as I get down on Te a lot but Ti and its stupid need to overly categorize everything can also be an issue.) Many people don't really want to end prejudice or discrimination or injustice- they want to be the ones holding the whip. So in order to do this they need to always be the righteous victims, and the people they are reverse-discriminating against need to always be the offenders. That's the true ugly bad thing about being a 'SJW.' But that doesn't mean it's okay to be a bigoted and hateful prick either.

The more you knoooooow.

I don’t see IEI getting out of bed doe any thing lol maybe food yeah but marches and stuff… nah!
Maybe you’d get out if an ISFJ pushed you too far lol