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Thread: The Rapture Index

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    Default The Rapture Index

    You could say the Rapture index is the Dow Jones Industrial Average of end time activity, but you can look at it as a prophetic speedometer. The higher the number, the faster we’re moving towards the occurrence of pre-tribulation rapture.

    The Rapture Index is by no means meant to predict the rapture, however, the index is designed to measure the type of activity that could act as a precursor to the rapture.

    Feel free to post / discuss gloom-and-doom stuff regarding the end of the world here.

    I will update the Rapture Index score via https://www.raptureready.com/rapture-ready-index/


    100 and Below: Slow prophetic activity
    100 to 130: Moderate prophetic activity
    130 to 160: Heavy prophetic activity
    Above 160: Fasten your seat belts
    Records

    All-Time High: 189 (October 10, 2016)
    All-Time Low: 58 (December 12, 1993)
    Current: 186 (6/28/21)



    1. Debt & Trade 5 26. Nuclear Nations 5 43. Climate 3
    2. False Christs 3 18. Ecumenism 4 35. Date Settings 2
    3. Occult 3 19. Globalism 5 36. Volcanoes 4
    4. Satanism 2 20. Tribulation Temple 3 37. Earthquakes 3-1
    5. Unemployment 3 21. Anti-Semitism 5 38. Wild Weather 5
    6. Inflation 5 22. Israel 5 39. Civil Rights 5
    7. Interest Rates 2 23. Gog (Russia) 4 40. Famine 3
    8. The Economy 5 24. Persia (Iran) 4 41. Drought 5
    9. Oil Supply/Price 5 25. False Prophet 4 42. Plagues 5
    10. Financial Unrest 5 27. Global Turmoil 3 44. Food Supply 4
    11. Leadership 5 28. Arms Proliferation 5 45. Floods 5
    12. Drug Abuse 3 29. Liberalism 5
    13. Apostasy 4 30. Peace Process 4
    14. Supernatural 3 31. Kings of the East 4
    15. Moral Standards 5 32. Mark of the Beast 5
    16. Anti-Christian 5 33. Beast Government 4
    17. Crime Rate 5 34. The Antichrist 5

    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life
    . -John 3:16



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    There are different schools of thought when it comes to end time views.

    This index will be following the "Dispensational Premillennialism" view

    Last edited by pandemic candy; 06-29-2021 at 01:58 AM.

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    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life
    . -John 3:16



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    Wasn't Saddam Hussein literally the antichrist / Gog / Magog according to these people?

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    I go with Newton's 2060 end of the world prediction.

    But it's not terrible. It's sweet, welcoming, bright, swirling, magnetic, enigmatic, and such. The Millennium of Peace is the sound of Love vibrating and twitching through the starlit canopy of awareness and cheerful intelligence of the highest radiant wisdom beholding the Promise spread as a life giving flora and fauna.

    The lion will lie down with the lamb. We will be given stadiums in the next dimension of gold and luster, value, power, dominion, rarity...
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    Kara (the16types.info)
    I was always a very playful and fun loving Meganium, wishful, flowing, bright, cheerful, exuberant, passionate, loving, caring, sweet, misery refined, elegant, growing, evolving, magical, evanescent, silver wise, crowned, elevated, euphoric, stunning, rapture clad, dreamy, blissful, blizzarding, aura musical, resonant, vibrant, exquisite, luster robed, but ultimately, through rare Wartortle wisdom, I became Lugia/Bunny
    ​Father Crow/Ho-Oh is God, invincible, immortal, eternal, everlasting, salvation, auroras, glitter, fragrance, sparkle, zap, psycho boosted, enigmatic, unleashed, ultimate, archaic, dinosaur

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Wasn't Saddam Hussein literally the antichrist / Gog / Magog according to these people?
    LOL, yeah, there have been some embarrassing speculations:

    There is much speculation about the identity of the Antichrist. Some of the more popular targets are Vladimir Putin, Prince William, and Pope Francis I. In the United States, former Presidents Barack Obama and Donald Trump are the most frequent targets. So, who is the Antichrist, and how will we recognize him?

    The Bible really does not say anything specific about where the Antichrist will come from. Many Bible scholars speculate that he will come from a confederacy of ten nations and/or a reborn Roman empire (Daniel 7:24-25; Revelation 17:7). Others see him as having to be a Jew in order to claim to be the Messiah. It is all just speculation since the Bible does not specifically say where the Antichrist will come from or what ethnicity he will be. One day, the Antichrist will be revealed. Second Thessalonians 2:3-4 tells us how we will recognize the Antichrist: “don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”

    It is likely that most people who are alive when the Antichrist is revealed will be very surprised at his identity. The Antichrist may or may not be alive today. Martin Luther was convinced that the pope in his time was the Antichrist. During the 1940s, many believed Adolph ****** was the Antichrist. Others who have lived in the past few hundred years have been equally sure as to the identity of the Antichrist. So far, they have all been incorrect. We should put the speculations behind us and focus on what the Bible actually says about the Antichrist. Revelation 13:5-8 declares, “The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.”


    Other biblical references to the Antichrist include the following:

    --The imposing, boastful king of Daniel 7 who oppresses the Jews and tries to “change the set times and the laws” (verse 25).
    --The leader who establishes a 7-year covenant with Israel and then breaks it in Daniel 9.
    --The rider on a white horse (representing his claim to be a man of peace) in Revelation 6:2.
    --The first beast—the one from the sea—in Revelation 13. This beast receives power from the dragon (Satan) and speaks “proud words and blasphemies” (verse 5) and wages war against the saints (verse 7).
    --Thankfully, the Antichrist/beast, along with his false prophet, will be thrown into the lake of fire, where they will spend all eternity in torment (Revelation 19:20; 20:10).

    In summary, the Antichrist is the end-times false messiah who seeks, and likely achieves, world domination so that he can destroy Israel and all followers of Jesus Christ.

    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life
    . -John 3:16



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    Seems a bit strange to Jesus to come back to a world without any Christians in it, no? How will he resolve their doctrinal differences then? He'll only lead the (disbelieving) Jews?

    From the Islamic point of view, most or all of the minor signs of the day of judgment have already occurred. Only the "big ones" remain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Seems a bit strange to Jesus to come back to a world without any Christians in it, no? How will he resolve their doctrinal differences then? He'll only lead the (disbelieving) Jews?

    From the Islamic point of view, most or all of the minor signs of the day of judgment have already occurred. Only the "big ones" remain.
    Great question,

    First, the differences between rapture and second coming

    When it comes to doctrine, we need to divide God’s Word (doctrine of dispensation), and ask ourselves whether the passage is talking about Israel or the church. They are not the same. Matthew 24 is often quoted referring to the rapture, but it is clearly talking about Israel.

    During the tribulation the church will be gone and God’s attention is once again on Israel, as He is bringing them to Him. So yes, @thehotelambush, you are correct. Additionally, that seven years of the tribulation is necessary to fulfill the final seven years of Daniel’s prophecy or the 70 weeks (detailed below).

    Next, the purpose of the second coming

    The second coming of Jesus Christ is the hope of believers that God is in control of all things, and is faithful to the promises and prophecies in His Word.

    --In His first coming, Jesus Christ came to earth as a baby in a manger in Bethlehem, just as prophesied. Jesus fulfilled many of the prophecies of the Messiah during His birth, life, ministry, death, and resurrection. However, there are some prophecies regarding the Messiah that Jesus has not yet fulfilled.

    --The second coming of Christ will be the return of Christ to fulfill these remaining prophecies. In His first coming, Jesus was the suffering Servant. In His second coming, Jesus will be the conquering King. In His first coming, Jesus arrived in the most humble of circumstances. In His second coming, Jesus will arrive with the armies of heaven at His side.


    In short, the return of Christ brings about what is referred to as the kingdom of God in Scripture—God’s absolute rule over His creation, including humankind.

    More details on the purpose of this return:


    When Jesus returns, He will be ready for war (Revelation 19:11–16). The nations will be gathered to fight against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2) in what we call the battle of Armageddon. But that will be the day Jesus returns: “His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south” (verse 4). It will be a unique day in the history of the world: “On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness . . . a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light” (verses 6–7). God’s enemies will be defeated, and the Antichrist and the false prophet will be “thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur” (Revelation 19:20). Jesus will set up His kingdom, and “The Lord will be king over the whole earth” (Zechariah 14:9).

    In establishing His kingdom on earth, Jesus will first set up a judgment for those who are still alive after the tribulation and who are on the earth at the time of the second coming. This is referred to as the “judgment of the sheep and the goats” or “judgment of the nations” (Matthew 25:31–46). Those who survive this judgment will remain on earth and enjoy a time of peace and prosperity with Christ for 1,000 years (referred to as the millennium; see Revelation 20:4–6). Those who are found guilty in this judgment are cursed and consigned to “the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). Satan is bound and forbidden to act during the millennium (Revelation 20:1–3).

    During this time there will also be a resurrection of all believers in God (Revelation 20:4–6). These resurrected believers will join believers who are alive at the time of Christ’s coming and those Christ brings with Him from heaven, and all will live with Jesus during His 1,000-year earthly reign.

    At the end of the millennium, Satan will be released, and one final battle will occur, which will rapidly be won by Christ (Revelation 20:7–9). Satan is then permanently consigned to the lake of fire. At this point the second resurrection will occur, and another judgment. Unbelievers will be resurrected and judged at what is referred to as the great white throne judgment; based on their works, they will be assigned to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11–15).
    Last edited by pandemic candy; 06-29-2021 at 03:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post

    From the Islamic point of view, most or all of the minor signs of the day of judgment have already occurred. Only the "big ones" remain.
    @thehotelambush

    That's interesting.

    I'm actually curious, how does God deal with things from the Islamic point of view
    Last edited by pandemic candy; 06-29-2021 at 11:31 AM.

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    The 7-Year Tribulation Period

    Shortly after the rapture, a seven-year period known in the Bible as the Great Tribulation will take place. It will begin with the signing of a peace agreement between Israel and her enemies and it will end with the physical return of Jesus Christ to set up His kingdom on earth. In between, will be seven years of terror for those on earth. The following events and trends will take place in that seven-year period:

    A man will arise who will achieve victory after victory both in politics and in war (Rev 13:7). This man, who should be easily identified by his rapid rise and popularity, is your the anti-christ. Many people believe that this person must be Jewish. That is, in order for Jews to accept him as Messiah, only a Jew will suffice. This is not necessarily the case. The Bible does not specify that he is a Jew, and it does not specify nationality. Only God-fearing Jews will require a Jewish Messiah. The liberal, ungodly Jews who dominate Israel will be as lost when it comes to Biblical truth as the Gentiles of the world and will be deceived by his charisma, and more than likely, the desires of the world’s media. Currently the new nickname for the United States is the Great Satan. This may have some significance.

    Violence will increase in all parts of the world, both nation against nation (ethnic wars) and domestically. Men will indiscriminately slay one another as peace will be removed from the earth (Rev 6:3-4)


    • There will be extreme inflation, poverty, and lack of food as one day’s wages will buy enough food for one day for one person (Rev 6:5-6).

    • In a very short period of time, one-quarter of the earth’s population will be killed due to wars, famine, pestilence and wild beasts. These wild beasts could very well be viruses, bacteria and other microbes. In late 1995, Time magazine ran a cover story on the rise of new infections and called microbes “malevolent little beasts” (Rev 6:7-8).

    • Many people will experience a religious conversion and become followers of Jesus Christ and most of these people will be hunted down and killed (Dan 7:21).

    • There will be a great earthquake, the sun will be blackened, the moon will turn red and all mountains and islands (which are underwater mountains) will be moved (Joel 2:30-32).

    • There will be a brief period of calm on the earth following this great earthquake which will give those who survive a false sense of security. One-third of the earth, one-third of all of trees and all the green grass will be burned up due to a comet or meteor that hits the earth (Rev 8:7).

    • A meteor will hit the earth causing the sea to become like blood, killing one-third of all sea creatures and destroying one-third of all shipping (Rev 8:8-9).

    • A “star” named Wormwood will fall from the sky and poison one-third of all fresh water killing many people (Rev 8:10-11).

    • The sun, moon and stars will be darkened by one-third. The day and night will be reduced by one-third. There is some speculation that this means the rotation of the earth will be changed so that a day lasts only 16 hours instead of 24 hours (Rev 8:12).

    • Fearsome locust-like beings will be released from underground who only attack people who are not followers of Jesus Christ. These attacks will be very painful but last only 5 months (Rev 9:1-11).

    • An army of 200 million horse-like (not the four horsemen) creatures will kill one-third of mankind. (Rev 9:13-19).



    • Two men (known as witnesses) of Jewish origin will preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ for 3 1/2 years and be killed at the midpoint of the 7 year tribulation. These two will be responsible for a 3 1/2 year world-wide drought and will be killed by the anti-christ (also known as the beast in the Bible).

    • People will be required to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead in order to buy and sell. Those who receive this mark will develop a loathsome and malignant sore on their bodies within a short period of time (Rev 13:13-18).

    • The oceans will chemically change and become like the blood of a dead man (congealed?) and everything in the sea will die (Rev 16:3).

    • The fresh waters will become like blood (Rev 16:4-7).

    • The sun will scorch the people on earth with fierce heat (Rev 16:8-9).

    • The throne of the anti-christ and his kingdom will become darkened (Rev 16:10-11).

    • The Euphrates river will dry up allowing the kings of the east to march westward (Rev 16:12)

    • The kings of the world will gather their armies together to battle God at Armageddon. There will be an earthquake so great that all of the mountains and islands will disappear. There will be hailstones weighing close to 100 pounds that will crush the armies that have gathered (Rev 16:17-22).

    • Shortly after this great earthquake, Jesus Christ will return with His army to claim the earth as His possession (Zech 14:3-5).
    Last edited by pandemic candy; 06-29-2021 at 02:56 PM.

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    The False Prophet and The Mark of the Beast

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    Who is the False Prophet (Revelation 4:8)

    He appears like a harmless, religious leader but he literally speaks for the @Devil (aka Satan aka the Anti-Christ)

    This leader is somebody that will help the world orchestrate worshipping the Anti-Christ.

    Some people believe this is the Pope (lol) but we can't say for sure.

    But, it will be a world-wide religious figure that will lend his credibility to the Anti-Christ and cause the world to worship him.

    The false prophet will deceive by convincing the world the Anti-Christ was killed and resurrected.

    The false prophet will also use some kind of image to represent the Anti-Christ. And if people don't worship this image, they will be put to death.

    How will the false prophet do this?

    We don't know,

    He may perhaps take advantage of hologram technology to do this on a mass scale.

    And finally,

    The False Prophet will force the world to receive the mark of the beast (the beast being the @Devil) to buy or sell

    What is the Mark of the Beast?

    A tattoo-like impression in your skin on your right hand or forehead.

    If you don't take this mark, they will also kill you.

    If you take this mark, it's an unforgivable sin and you will go to hell.

    Additionally, if you take this mark, you will suffer loathsome sores (Rev 16:1-2)

    For the first time in history, we have the technology worldwide to make this possible; a cashless society

    This will occur approximately ~the middle of the 7-year Tribulation

    For those left behind in the tribulation, here are the options:

    --Take the mark of the beast, but get loathsome sores and go to hell later

    --Accept Christ, but possibly get killed for it, but go to heaven later

    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life
    . -John 3:16



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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    @thehotelambush

    That's interesting.

    I'm actually curious, how does God deal with things from the Islamic point of view
    In terms of end times? We believe that first the Mahdi (rightly guided one) will come and lead the Muslims and put things right in the world, but then when the Antichrist arrives Jesus (pbuh) will descend to fight and kill the Antichrist. Jesus (pbuh) will follow the law of Muhammad (pbuh) and refute the tenets of Christianity. But after Jesus passes away the world will descend into evil once again. Then the Muslims will be removed from the world (similar to the "Rapture") and only the worst people will remain, then it will end.

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    A chart that illustrates dispensation, or dividing the Word to particular times/groups (including End Times)


    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life
    . -John 3:16



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    Israel's Role During End Times

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    Conflict in Israel has been a reality whenever Israel has existed as a nation. Whether it was the Egyptians, Amalekites, Midianites, Moabites, Ammonites, Amorites, Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, or Romans, the nation of Israel has always been persecuted by its neighbors. Why is this? According to the Bible, it is because God has a special plan for the nation of Israel, and Satan wants to defeat that plan. Satanically influenced hatred of Israel—and especially Israel’s God—is the reason Israel’s neighbors have always wanted to see Israel destroyed. Whether it is Sennacherib, king of Assyria; Haman, official of Persia; ******, leader of Nazi Germany; or Rouhani, President of Iran, attempts to completely destroy Israel will always fail. The persecutors of Israel will come and go, but the persecution will remain until the second coming of Christ. As a result, conflict in Israel is not a reliable indicator of the soon arrival of the end times.

    However, the Bible does say there will be terrible conflict in Israel during the end times. That is why the time period is known as the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation, and the “time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7). Here is what the Bible says about Israel in the end times:
    There will be a mass return of Jews to the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:3; Isaiah 43:6; Ezekiel 34:11-13; 36:24; 37:1-14).

    The Antichrist will make a 7-year covenant of "peace" with Israel (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 9:27).

    The temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 11:1).

    The Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel, and worldwide persecution of Israel will result (Daniel 9:27; 12:1, 11; Zechariah 11:16; Matthew 24:15, 21; Revelation 12:13). Israel will be invaded (Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

    Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10). Israel will be regenerated, restored, and regathered (Jeremiah 33:8; Ezekiel 11:17; Romans 11:26).
    There is much turmoil in Israel today. Israel is persecuted, surrounded by enemies—Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc. But this hatred and persecution of Israel is only a hint of what will happen in the end times (Matthew 24:15-21). The latest round of persecution began when Israel was reconstituted as a nation in 1948. Many Bible prophecy scholars believed the six-day Arab-Israeli war in 1967 was the "beginning of the end." Could what is taking place in Israel today indicate that the end is near? Yes. Does it necessarily mean the end is near? No. Jesus Himself said it best, "Watch out that no one deceives you. . . . You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come" (Matthew 24:4-6).
    Last edited by pandemic candy; 06-29-2021 at 07:42 PM.

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    Signs of End Times: Aliens & UFOs and Conspiracy theories

    Alright so unless you've been living under a rock, there has been a rise in the news of "UFO sightings" and an increase of "conspiracy theories."

    We often roll our eyes because we imagine cartoony alien beings like E.T and crazy conspiracy theorists wearing tin-foil hats.

    Well I want to reason, as a Bible-believing Christian, that these reportings may not be entirely unreasonable.

    First,

    Aliens & UFO sightings

    I think first of all we have to define what an alien & UFO is.

    I'd define an Alien as a "Foreign Invader" outside the human realm, that come from outside the earth.

    I'd define a UFO as any "Unidentified flying object," doesn't necessarily have to be a dish.

    If we look in the Bible, there are numerous examples in scripture where Aliens and UFOs were mentioned.

    Ezekiel 1- Mentions Ezekiel's encounter with winged-creatures, who flew in the heavens (Alien) Also mentions wheels, or circular rings (UFO)

    Zechariah 5- Also mentions circular objects that fly

    Rev. 12, 13- Mentions these creatures coming out of sea and then flying above.

    Rev. 9- Mentions male creatures with long hair like a woman, dressed up with a breastplate iron (possibly tech suit), sounding like chariots of horses (UFO hovering sound)

    In other words, you can view Aliens/UFOs as a type of Devil/Demon

    Conspiracy Theories

    What about conspiracy theories? Are they entirely unreasonable?

    I don't think so.

    To define conspiracy theory, I would say that:

    --It involves a secret plot to harm someone
    --Relates to government
    --Combined with religion, assassination, and a large group of people.

    If we look in the bible, there are conspiracies everywhere if we go by the above definition:

    Acts 23:15- Pharisees (a Jewish religious group) plotting to kill Paul

    2 Kings 15:25- The right hand man of the king conspiring to kill the king

    2 Kings 21:23- Servants of the king conspiring and killing the king in his own house

    etc etc, there are many many examples in the Bible


    The point is, when we hear about these things increasing in the news, it should come to no surprise; they've been mentioned in the past and will increase during End Times


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    What does the apocalypse say about how Palestinians are being treated by Israelites

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    What does the apocalypse say about how Palestinians are being treated by Israelites

    What did the Bible say about indigenous people living in Israel when the Moses tribe arrived?

    I'm asking because I don't know, but I suspect I can guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. " - Revelation 1.1
    Yes. Events that will take place shortly, once they begin.
    Last edited by pandemic candy; 06-30-2021 at 06:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    What does the apocalypse say about how Palestinians are being treated by Israelites
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    What did the Bible say about indigenous people living in Israel when the Moses tribe arrived?

    I'm asking because I don't know, but I suspect I can guess.
    Source

    God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.

    In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.” Obviously God is not against all war. Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).

    Jesus’ second coming will be exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 describes the ultimate war with Christ, the conquering commander who judges and makes war “with justice” (v. 11). It’s going to be bloody (v. 13) and gory. The birds will eat the flesh of all those who oppose Him (v. 17-18). He has no compassion upon His enemies, whom He will conquer completely and consign to a “fiery lake of burning sulfur” (v. 20).

    It is an error to say that God never supports a war. Jesus is not a pacifist. In a world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If ****** had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions would have been killed? If the American Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

    War is a terrible thing. Some wars are more “just” than others, but war is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). At the same time, Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I think you are rewriting the bible now.

    If something has begun, it can hardly take place shortly when it has already begun.

    once you become old, your hairs will shortly turn gray

    the book of revelation speaks to our time period even more than that of the seven churches

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    @Subteigh, just give it up!!! it's like this between us and you are conor mcgregor. the glory days are behind u:


    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    .
    Look at the dispensation chart I posted above.

    Past- By sight
    Present- By faith not by sight
    Future (End Times)- By sight

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    once you become old, your hairs will shortly turn gray

    the book of revelation speaks to our time period even more than that of the seven churches
    If you say that something must shortly take place, that means you think it must shortly take place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If you say that something must shortly take place, that means you think it must shortly take place.
    You are taking the verses too hyper-literally. They need to be applied within the context of the situation.

    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    Look at the dispensation chart I posted above.

    Past- By sight
    Present- By faith not by sight
    Future (End Times)- By sight
    The Rapture isn't even in the Book of Revelation.

    The author expected (or wanted readers to expect) that the events prophesied would happen within their generation.

    As it is, the work is complete fiction.

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    Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    The Rapture isn't even in the Book of Revelation.

    The author expected (or wanted readers to expect) that the events prophesied would happen within their generation.

    As it is, the work is complete fiction.
    It's like I need to spoon feed u applesauce:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post

    Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.
    Right.

    Light up a lighter and place it a couple inches away from your hand.

    How does that feel

    Now imagine your entire body being torched in flames.

    Don't support Satan
    Last edited by pandemic candy; 07-05-2021 at 01:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    Yes. Events that will take place shortly, once they begin.
    Since you’re citing Revelation:

    “Behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to repay each according to his work.”

    Is it only the “coming quickly” part of this verse you believe, or have you noticed yet that Jesus preaches salvation based on works?
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Since you’re citing Revelation:

    “Behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to repay each according to his work.”

    Is it only the “coming quickly” part of this verse you believe, or have you noticed yet that Jesus preaches salvation based on works?
    Salvation (being saved) is through faith alone.

    This passage is talking about removing Christians from the tribulation aka the rapture, not on salvation.

    On rewards in heaven:

    God will give rewards in heaven at the bema, or the judgment seat of Christ, based on our faithfulness in service to Him (2 Corinthians 5:10). The rewards will show the reality of our sonship (Galatians 4:7) and the justice of God (Hebrews 6:10). God will give rewards in heaven in order to fulfill the law of sowing and reaping (Galatians 6:7–9) and make good on His promise that our labor in the Lord is not in vain (1 Corinthians 15:58).

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    Salvation is through faith alone.

    On rewards in heaven:
    So once again you ignore the clear and direct words of Jesus, the supposed founder of your religion, in favor of Paul. Every source you quoted is an epistle of Paul, or a Paulinist in the case of Hebrews. You cannot make the case for faith-based salvation by citing Jesus, and you twist everything he said to make him accord with Paul, rather than the other way around. It's never Pauline doctrine that gets compromised for Jesus for some reason.

    Why should anyone take you seriously when you look at a direct statement of Jesus and ignore it? If you ignore Jesus' words, why should anyone else believe them?
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    So once again you ignore the clear and direct words of Jesus, the supposed founder of your religion, in favor of Paul. Every source you quoted is an epistle of Paul, or a Paulinist in the case of Hebrews. You cannot make the case for faith-based salvation by citing Jesus, and you twist everything he said to make him accord with Paul, rather than the other way around. It's never Pauline doctrine that gets compromised for Jesus for some reason.

    Why should anyone take you seriously when you look at a direct statement of Jesus and ignore it? If you ignore Jesus' words, why should anyone else believe them?
    Reread what I wrote (I added additional info)

    This verse is talking about the rapture.

    "the hour of trial" is referring to the tribulation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandemic candy View Post
    Reread what I wrote (I added additional info)

    This verse is talking about the rapture.

    "the hour of trial" is referring to the tribulation.
    Again, you distort Jesus' words to make them accord with Paul's. But fine. I could cite any number of Jesus' words on salvation.

    Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: (33) Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? (34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him...So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
    This is a parable I assume you're familiar with, in which God forgives someone, and then revokes this forgiveness because the recipient failed to forgive others; in other words, because he failed to perform good works.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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