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Thread: Socionics Type Descriptions by Golihov and the Corruption Zone

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    Default Socionics Type Descriptions by Golihov and the Corruption Zone

    Alright, this post has had me seriously pondering for a little while. Specifically, how Golihov talks about the types signs/zone : zone of self-confidence, zone of confidence, zone of anxiety, "sell out" zone or the corruption zone.

    I'm just going to link it here real quick so you guys can find yours: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...EI_.28Dumas.29

    Ever since reading the Dumas/SEI corruption zone of 'romance' (or dual seeking function basically), something clicked in my head. I am easily corrupted by the 'romance' for Ne and it can be very dangerous for me to stay in the mindset for too long. I've idealized Ne doms for a very long time and only now and I starting to level the playing field with that view. I don't know if I am able to clearly get my point across, I am just trying to say that I didn't realize how much I am willing to 'sell out' for my corruption zone without thinking.

    I want to hear what you guys think and your interpretations possibly. I just had my own personal realizations reading it and wanted to share and see some different perspectives from Alphas and other types possibly.

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    Oh lord, this translation hurts to read. I wish the Socionics community had more capable translators.

    Anyway, his LII description is something I try not to be. I think it represents the worst of the type.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 06-28-2021 at 08:49 AM.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Oh lord, this translation hurts to read. I wish the Socionics community had more capable translators.

    Anyway, his LII description is something I try not to be. I think it represents the worst of the type.
    Lol yeah it is a bit hard but, I think there is essence to say the least.

    Question, the LII corruption zone is that of 'compromise'. I am not taking that literally cause Alpha NT can comprise lol. So I'm just going to infer it as being able to effectively and confidently compromise the social environment between people and the self. Would you say that is a 'corruption' or 'sell out' zone for you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Lol yeah it is a bit hard but, I think there is essence to say the least.

    Question, the LII corruption zone is that of 'compromise'. I am not taking that literally cause Alpha NT can comprise lol. So I'm just going to infer it as being able to effectively and confidently compromise the social environment between people and the self. Would you say that is a 'corruption' or 'sell out' zone for you?
    I'm not really sure. "Compromising" in general is something I don't see myself nor Alpha NT having any particular problem with, but I'm not sure what the author meant there. Your interpretation is interesting though. I think difficulty forming boundaries between the self and others is a problem many people from different types have trouble with, but I don't know that it's particular to LII -- that being said it's a problem I've had.

    Hm, how to explain it. When I was a kid I felt vaguely that I didn't have a personality; maybe I was something like a tree or nature spirit than something like a person or even an expressive animal, that had feelings, preferences, and whatnot. I didn't like pain, and I liked to feel good, but beyond that all I wanted to do was watch things and people. I felt often that I'd like to be a rock or tree or incorporeal spirit that somehow still had the ability to perceive the world around it, but wouldn't have to bother processing sensations or feelings; I could just sit in peace for dozens or thousands of years, just watching the world go by and thinking in silence. I know in elementary school I wasn't very emotive, and I was very distant from what was happening in classrooms and whatnot. I didn't pay attention in class; I just sat and thought on my own, or I read a book when we were allowed to. I would finish schoolwork early in class so I could go back to reading. At least one teacher of mine thought I was stupid/maybe developmentally disabled, though reading so much gave me a comparatively great reading-comprehension ability and vocabulary, so I tested into a program for "advanced" students (looking back on this, I think these programs are utter crap; we were fucking elementary schoolers, and all the "advanced" program did was shit like teach kids how to use Google and summarize information on random websites and do puzzles in class; fucking pointless and you can teach that to anyone unless they're actually retarded. I really believe the main purpose of programs like these is to train up an upper-middle class that believes it's inherently better than everyone else).

    I'm not sure how to explain the degree to which I was just not engaged with people at this time. In first grade I didn't play with other kids at recess. I wasn't interested in the physical activities the boys were engaged in, though I'd sometimes run around on my own, and the girls didn't want a boy like me around them, so I would try to escape the teacher's attention and wander around in the part of the playground with trees and plants, and watch/play with caterpillars, woodlice, and ants. I just didn't really pay attention to or care about what other people were doing.

    Well, that's what I'd say, but I made three friends in school. The 1st was a Chinese girl (SEI I think) in first grade -- we were sitting next to each other working on an assignment to color something in, and I noticed on her copy, she'd colored a man's hand green. I thought she'd either leave it blank if he were white (like me) or brown (like her), so I thought it was really weird she'd use the color green! I asked her what that was about, and she gave me a grin and some answer I don't remember. But I thought the concept of coloring someone green was really hilarious for some reason, and I laughed, and we became friends. After that I'd say something like "remember when you colored a man's hand green??" and we'd both crack up and giggle. She also held my hand; we or at least I was made fun of for that, I remember. Unfortunately I think we felt a little awkward around each other being different sexes, and since we didn't have a class together after 1st grade, we stopped talking. I also had a male SEI friend I met in 2nd grade since we were both kind of awkward and weird. We still sort of keep in contact, though he's not really all that communicative over text. He's still very weird, lol. I also had a male ILE friend; we had similar interests, we had compatible personalities, we both read a lot, and our parents were friends.

    Anyway, I didn't have a good home life, and I didn't really talk to anyone in my family much, so I think having these friends was very good for me. The SEIs really helped me become more expressive and become more 'in touch' with my feelings I guess. The ILE I was more my "usual self" with, but it was good to have social interaction that just felt natural with someone who seemed similar to me in many ways. But by the time I left elementary school I still had many problems expressing myself and interacting with people or even really caring about other people or normal human activities (that weren't basically sitting around and reading and thinking by myself). There's a lot I could say about this time, but long story short, my family moved, I became homeschooled, and I stopped really interacting with "normal" people for the most part; almost everyone I knew until college was an evangelical crazy and/or had mental problems. But I was able to go to summer camp some years and I attribute that -- being around "normal" people for even a week a year -- to making me realize how much I wanted to be around people, especially in high-Fe environments.

    But it's been hard to shed my social problems. I at least used to have really bad trouble conceptualizing "myself" or maintaining a self-image, and being able to verbalize/recognize my thoughts and feelings. I've posted on the random thought thread that I've always been uncomfortable hearing myself referred to by a name, and I think it's related to this -- it reminds me that I physically exist, and it's hard to know what to make of that -- what I am; what I should think of myself; what other people should think or do think about me. I've also had trouble establishing boundaries between myself and other people, and recognizing where other people's emotions end and my own begin. Other people's feelings (especially Fe-type feelings) can influence me and my thoughts a lot, and I've had a bad tendency to confuse their feelings/thoughts for my own, and act as if they were -- though without even understanding theirs properly. At other times I've tried basically to construct a personality: someone tells me something, I don't know how I should act, and I try to "fake" a response to just do something besides sit there blankly staring.

    I think all this I've gotten better with. I have something more of a self-image now, and I do better at separating it from others. But I still have many moments of doubt -- "Do I really care about this? Am I just living a lie in order to feel something? Some kind of social validation, maybe?" And that social validation really is very important to me -- I guess the feeling that I exist and my life mattered to someone. The idea that nothing I do will ever make a difference, and I could live or die just the same and it wouldn't matter to anyone after me, is my greatest fear, so it's always meant a great deal to me when people talk to me and express some kind of care for what I think or desire for my company.

    Anyway, I'm sorry for writing so much, but I wasn't really sure how else to address what you asked. It's also helpful for myself to write out a kind of rationalization of my life like this sometimes, since, as I said, it's hard to make sense of it or understand myself in reference to it without effort like this.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    First, thank you for sharing. I really appreciate you laying out your full thoughts and rationalizations. The more Ti, the better for me Your answer really gave me some things to think about and analyze for sure. I think we all have our struggles with boundries and what not (Lord knows I am still working on that) but I think our reasoning are all different for it. I am going to pick out certain things that stood out to me personally to what you wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Hm, how to explain it. When I was a kid I felt vaguely that I didn't have a personality; maybe I was something like a tree or nature spirit than something like a person or even an expressive animal, that had feelings, preferences, and whatnot. I didn't like pain, and I liked to feel good, but beyond that all I wanted to do was watch things and people. I felt often that I'd like to be a rock or tree or incorporeal spirit that somehow still had the ability to perceive the world around it, but wouldn't have to bother processing sensations or feelings; I could just sit in peace for dozens or thousands of years, just watching the world go by and thinking in silence. I know in elementary school I wasn't very emotive, and I was very distant from what was happening in classrooms and whatnot. I didn't pay attention in class; I just sat and thought on my own, or I read a book when we were allowed to. I would finish schoolwork early in class so I could go back to reading................ I wasn't interested in the physical activities the boys were engaged in, though I'd sometimes run around on my own, and the girls didn't want a boy like me around them, so I would try to escape the teacher's attention and wander around in the part of the playground with trees and plants, and watch/play with caterpillars, woodlice, and ants. I just didn't really pay attention to or care about what other people were doing.
    I find your perspective very interesting. Simply because it represents dominate Ti to me and how would view it at it's highest from. Just pure observation and processing of the world internally without the integration of the feeling self (well other then you know good and bad sensations etc.). Funny thing was that one of close friends dated and LII and I got a similar feel to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    The 1st was a Chinese girl (SEI I think) in first grade -- we were sitting next to each other working on an assignment to color something in, and I noticed on her copy, she'd colored a man's hand green. I thought she'd either leave it blank if he were white (like me) or brown (like her), so I thought it was really weird she'd use the color green! I asked her what that was about, and she gave me a grin and some answer I don't remember. But I thought the concept of coloring someone green was really hilarious for some reason, and I laughed, and we became friends. After that I'd say something like "remember when you colored a man's hand green??" and we'd both crack up and giggle.
    Cute story Reminds me of younger self to be honest and something that I would do. I find this a very cute observation between Ti and Fe. Despite of the obvious mechanics of coloring the hand an obvious skin tone, she went with green and emotionally rolled with it! I bet she had a good reasoning too tbh cause I often do when I do something wacky Despite it being obviously 'wrong' that was okay and you guys could emotionally joke about it and bond. I think this is what Ti really appreciates about Fe and helps balance it out. Internal mechanics can be appreciated and be both brought forward and appreciated in the emotional realm of people.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    ... being around "normal" people for even a week a year -- to making me realize how much I wanted to be around people, especially in high-Fe environments.

    But it's been hard to shed my social problems. I at least used to have really bad trouble conceptualizing "myself" or maintaining a self-image, and being able to verbalize/recognize my thoughts and feelings. I've posted on the random thought thread that I've always been uncomfortable hearing myself referred to by a name, and I think it's related to this -- it reminds me that I physically exist, and it's hard to know what to make of that -- what I am; what I should think of myself; what other people should think or do think about me. I've also had trouble establishing boundaries between myself and other people, and recognizing where other people's emotions end and my own begin. Other people's feelings (especially Fe-type feelings) can influence me and my thoughts a lot, and I've had a bad tendency to confuse their feelings/thoughts for my own, and act as if they were -- though without even understanding theirs properly. At other times I've tried basically to construct a personality: someone tells me something, I don't know how I should act, and I try to "fake" a response to just do something besides sit there blankly staring.
    Thank you for sharing your story about your childhood, I really do hope that things are better now and you are able to keep away from the previous toxic envioment.

    This paragraph really highlights my thoughts about the corruption zone and how we can easily 'sell out ourselves' to get a taste. I personally think that once we get a postive taste of our dual seeking function, we realize how weak it is and how much we need it. As you mentioned with you SEI friend that you didn't realize how much you needed Fe expression and a postive external emotional envrioment until she was able to intergrate you with it. That you don't have to stay in that Ti state and can connect with the world. That and afterwards you realizing after all those years you still need and crave a high Fe enviroment.

    However, what we don't realize about the 'corruption zone' is that how weak our function is and how quickly we get overwhelmed by it and don't know how to both confidently use it. We get 'corrupted' and overwhelemd by the downsides of our dual seeking function since it is not our natural strength. We become neurotic trying to be like our dual and use that function in the same kind of confidence. However, we are drawn like a moth to a flame and we want to immerse ourselves in it. I get the same way when I start trying to use Ne for extended periods of time naturally. You've mentioned all the downsides and draw backs of deeling with and using Fe, very extrenal and people oriented. It can also be very hard to determine where we begin and end emotionally with others. Hell, even as a Fe-creative and Fe subtype I still struggle with what you mentioned. It's weird for a high Fe users but I've struggle with social anxiety since I was a child. Most people don't seem to notice at all and I have gotten better at dealing with it. Despite that, I have always felt comfortable nagivating with Fe despite those drawbacks. Usually it takes a smile and some warm expression and everything is good lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I think all this I've gotten better with. I have something more of a self-image now, and I do better at separating it from others. But I still have many moments of doubt -- "Do I really care about this? Am I just living a lie in order to feel something? Some kind of social validation, maybe?" And that social validation really is very important to me -- I guess the feeling that I exist and my life mattered to someone. The idea that nothing I do will ever make a difference, and I could live or die just the same and it wouldn't matter to anyone after me, is my greatest fear, so it's always meant a great deal to me when people talk to me and express some kind of care for what I think or desire for my company.
    This is where the balance sets in! Kinda that aspect of moving away from the corruption zone and back to our self-confident zone while still knowing that we do need some sense of that sinful corruption~ In the sense, I really see that Ti thinking to shoo away the downsides of the Fe naturally and you return to a center where you feel the most confident and centered and at peace. Though, you still need that sweet Fe and I think this where our duals, activators, and high Fe users come in. In the sense, they help us obtain those feelings without us being totally corrupted by our dual seeking function. We appericate it, understand it drawbacks, and hope we find the other who can confidetly use it and appreicate the feeling without it totally corrupting us.

    That got my Ti thinking out about my view of the corruption zone so thank you for that as well!

    Just want to go of topic just a little, you got a lot more superpowers then you realize and there is a strength and warmth to what you bring even though you may not feel that way. You respond better then you may realize to the natural eviroment and believe me, as a Fe users, I always feel comfertable with Ti users and they put me at ease. Even if they are not expressing as much. Sometimes, It's really nice to have some neutral expressions as it allows me to relax. I always like reading your response and how you articulate them. You are much better at it then me! Even how you come across, I find it much easier to apporach your posts and questions as you come across both accepting and netural. I get nervous when going into theory discusions as I don't feel strong in that aspect and I worry that I am just going to look stupid. With you discussions, I feel like I can step forward even though I might be wrong which, helps me strengthan my skills as well.

    Thanks again!

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    Is there somewhere the original source?

    Anyway, I tend to have those sorts of reactions towards Ni.
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    Lol these career suggestions read like a parody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Is there somewhere the original source?

    Anyway, I tend to have those sorts of reactions towards Ni.
    Maybe here? Not sure if original but the Russian text could be translated using alternative translator like Yandex

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