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Thread: LII supervising IEE

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    Default LII supervising IEE

    What are some examples of this in real life? I see SLE supervising LII a lot more than LII supervising IEE, what are some real life examples? SLE supervising LII is like in every teen movie ever, though. lol How butthurt has a LII ever made a IEE feel? @FreelancePoliceman

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    If I'm correct they do not like inconclusiveness in thought when it comes to IEX types. IEE obviously puts low emphasis on logical rules. Like SEE would sleep her way out from jail and LSI guard gets pissed off due to it.
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    If I'm correct they do not like inconclusiveness in thought when it comes to IEX types. IEE obviously puts low emphasis on logical rules. Like SEE would sleep her way out from jail and LSI guard gets pissed off due to it.
    Okay, that confuses me a little tho because both of your examples are about how supervisors are getting pissed at their supervisees- shouldn't it almost always be the other way around?

    I wonder sometimes if LII supervising comes off as 'too weak' because of their Se polr? Maybe a IEE would have to read something a LII wrote from a distance and be trolled by it idk.

    Does everybody always just go 'aww cute little harmless LII nerd so adorable' - no matter what?





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    Since you tagged me: I don't have enough experience with IEEs to say much interesting. I get an impression I make them nervous sometimes -- I remember this 40-year-old IEE dude I used to talk with sometimes at work who seemed to become awkward or nervous around me, which I thought was really strange. Sometimes when we talked it felt almost like he was seeking my approval. But even this guy I don't think I talked with enough to be able to go much into detail.

    In general, though: IEEs' bad Ti is usually really obvious. They talk a lot, and there definitely tends to be a lack of logical thread connecting their thoughts -- sometimes I've heard them make completely contradictory points in the span of 10 seconds. Anyway, I try not to be an asshole -- I'm not better than anyone else -- so I don't ever act mean about it, I think, but just drawing their attention to this -- "you said you think this, but then you said...what do you mean?" -- seems to make them really flustered. Reactions can vary between getting defensive or apologetic, but either way they tend to get even more disconnected and nervous. Complete different reaction than ExE, who appreciate clarification of their thoughts and seem to feel more confident when others talk them through them.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post


    Okay, that confuses me a little tho because both of your examples are about how supervisors are getting pissed at their supervisees- shouldn't it almost always be the other way around?

    I wonder sometimes if LII supervising comes off as 'too weak' because of their Se polr? Maybe a IEE would have to read something a LII wrote from a distance and be trolled by it idk.
    My understanding of the supervisory dynamic is that supervisors generally think their supervisees are wrong/misguided/dumb in regard to their general approach to life, and supervisees tend to feel so self-conscious around supervisors it's difficult for them to justify themselves and their habitual ways of thinking/feeling.

    Anyway, IEEs don't value Se, so I don't think they're inclined to see LIIs' Se PoLR as a weakness, at least not an important one, especially since they're also not great at it themselves. Supervisory relationships unfortunately aren't equal relationships; one side is always at a disadvantage.

    Does everybody always just go 'aww cute little harmless LII nerd so adorable' - no matter what?


    Maybe they should! But, no, IEEs aren't exactly school bully stereotypes themselves; I don't think they're generally in a position to call another Ne-ego a nerd, lol.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Since you tagged me: I don't have enough experience with IEEs to say much interesting. I get an impression I make them nervous sometimes -- I remember this 40-year-old IEE dude I used to talk with sometimes at work who seemed to become awkward or nervous around me, which I thought was really strange. Sometimes when we talked it felt almost like he was seeking my approval. But even this guy I don't think I talked with enough to be able to go much into detail.

    In general, though: IEEs' bad Ti is usually really obvious. They talk a lot, and there definitely tends to be a lack of logical thread connecting their thoughts -- sometimes I've heard them make completely contradictory points in the span of 10 seconds. Anyway, I try not to be an asshole -- I'm not better than anyone else -- so I don't ever act mean about it, I think, but just drawing their attention to this -- "you said you think this, but then you said...what do you mean?" -- seems to make them really flustered. Reactions can vary between getting defensive or apologetic, but either way they tend to get even more disconnected and nervous. Complete different reaction than ExE, who appreciate clarification of their thoughts and seem to feel more confident when others talk them through them.
    Talking to IEE-Ne and SEE-Se is like riding a broken rollercoaster. I’m not sure you can actually argue with them because their thoughts are not always cohesive enough to argue with. They will come at me with an emotional diatribe and when someone calls them out for it, they quickly make up a Te-Fi deflector script, such as “see, this is what I was talking about - you don’t get it” without actually explaining their point. My own Ti is too weak to make it make sense, so it just annoys me. ExE actually deflects their weak Ti as well, but they don’t suppress corrections to it like xEE.

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    Just came back for this one thread. Basic template when LII has no experience with supervision:

    IEE: I think this.
    LII: Wrong. This can't be because of blablibla.
    IEE: Well then, I think that.
    LII: Close, but wrong because of blebleble.
    IEE: ...
    LII: Actually, don't think at all. Let me think for you and take control of your lousy brain and brainwash you. Let me puppetmaster you and force my arbitrary Ti-thoughts on you because you're hopeless.
    IEE: *becomes empty shell, suffers zombitude*
    I can understand that this approach works with EXE because they can just accept any Ti uncritically and become entranced by it because it's their *suggestive*, but it doesn't work when you actually have your own thoughts(inert & mental function) but just suck at thinking logically like XEE.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    In general, though: IEEs' bad Ti is usually really obvious. They talk a lot, and there definitely tends to be a lack of logical thread connecting their thoughts -- sometimes I've heard them make completely contradictory points in the span of 10 seconds. Anyway, I try not to be an asshole -- I'm not better than anyone else -- so I don't ever act mean about it, I think, but just drawing their attention to this -- "you said you think this, but then you said...what do you mean?" -- seems to make them really flustered. Reactions can vary between getting defensive or apologetic, but either way they tend to get even more disconnected and nervous. Complete different reaction than ExE, who appreciate clarification of their thoughts and seem to feel more confident when others talk them through them.
    I do think that's a better approach than most LIIs have. You try to help your supervisees figure things out and not impose your own Ti. I still get why IEEs get nervous when you say "you said you think this, but then you said...what do you mean?" because you're actually rebooting their whole brain lol. You can't just point a Ti- flaw in IEEs thinking and then ask them to come up with a new thought that explains the contradiction right away because it's a low energy function. (We're a bit like SEI in that regard; I think model B gets it right and Ti- of LII is actually part of the Te+/Ti- HA of both SEI and IEE. Only difference is that SEI can talk back using Si and Fe so LII has still respect for them. That also explains why it's so difficult to ignore your supervisor, because his dominant is actually the unvalued aspect of your valued HA). IEE's brain at that moment is like:



    You gotta give the lads some time! It's best to leave it at 'I think you contradicted yourself when you said....'. That gives the IEE time to come up with what he thinks once he has time by himself.
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    I'm only aware of two IEEs in my life. The first I met as a teenager. We immediately hit it off and have remained close ever since. I can hardly recall much friction between us. She and I can go years without speaking and still pick back up where we left off. The other was a former colleague in human resources. Now with her I gradually noticed I was her supervisor. Socionics descriptions were spot on.

    It may have started with her subtle attempts to reverse-supervise me. She made the occasional insinuation I wasn't knowledgeable or didn't hear something correctly. Nothing I really fretted over, but I did take notice. What really touched it off was the day she and I were moving these cases of soda to storage. I asked her a direct question: leave them on the dolly or no? She was as if caught flat-footed, unsure what to do.

    Now up to this point she was one of the few people around who really knows my attitude so I didn't make much of this moment. But later it proved to really piss her off. From there she sort of oscillated between contempt and attraction. She found very clever ways to seduce me. She was this petite Hawaiian girl who really knew what she was doing in that area. You know how Keirsey describes the Idealist style of communication as 'gateways'? She used them very effectively with me. Before that I hardly even looked at her in a strong sensual way.

    No more than a month and half after the initial incident she left the company to go into nursing. I just happened to see the going away cake in HR. She neglected to inform me she was leaving. I was heart broken. The thing is, after she left, she did make it a point to return several times, seemingly for no reason other than to awkwardly confront me about something. The first few times she couldn't catch up with me, but I heard she had been around. She did finally catch up with me and another colleague, but she went out of her way to greet them without acknowledging me. It was very odd and indirect, which I gather was meant to hurt me socially. Once she made her rounds I think she noticed from afar that this didn't much phase me. She couldn't have looked more disappointed.

    The whole ordeal made me dread the supervisor role. These were trends I could never quite detect in my relationship with the ENFP I've known since highschool (although I did find I was immediately forward with her). Its cool at times because an attractive supervisee can really perk you up, let you know you matter. But then you realize having them at your mercy is hardly gratifying. And the dynamic is such that they learn to bite back from none other than yourself.
    Last edited by skosh; 06-28-2021 at 06:44 AM.

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    I was in a long-distance relationship with an IEE for a year. We got along well very together but I could never see living with her because she lived with layers of clutter all around her, and dirty dishes piled in the sink with no clean ones on the shelf. Needless to say that when I visited her, we stayed in hotels. I've actually been a work supervisor of many and several had consulted me about various personal problems. One I had to fire because he became became a drug addict - I heard that a year later he died of an overdose. Although very perceptive and capable, most seemed to be their own worst enemy; they could see others clearly but didn't seem to take the time to look at themselves unless something specific was pointed out to them. They tend to look to trusted others for their own personal assessments; perhaps LIIs seem trustworthy to them because they see the world similarly.

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    Supervision isn't an action. I actually get along great with IEEs, but yes, on occasion I may criticize their Ti. That might not be the biggest source of conflict in the relation though.

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