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Thread: Positivist mentality vs negativist mentality

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    Default Positivist mentality vs negativist mentality

    SLE have negativist mentality in the ego yet have positivist mentality in their Id & super-id. My dual has the positivist mentality (in their ego) however I sometimes like my mirage for their negativist mentality

    The mentalities are supposed to compliment but I'm interested your opinions.

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    I read somewhere negativist tend to flock together and that positivists are attracted to negativists. idk how true that could be tho... nor where I found that.

    The way I see negativism is in putting your efforts into fixing problems, while positivists would puch advantages. Imagine you're trying to fix a problem here and someone's trying to convince to go chase something with them, annoying right?
    I think a part of it has to do with how society works around where one lives. I've found being a fixer to be considered much more positively than going after the good, which is seen as escaping responsabilities at times.

    The two are complementary, if you spend all your time fixing stuff here, you're not going anywhere else, and if you spend time only going after the good you leave a lot of broken stuff behind. There are times to fix and times to move on.
    I guess type influence what you want to fix and the good you seek, and also how one would phrase all this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    I read somewhere negativist tend to flock together and that positivists are attracted to negativists. idk how true that could be tho... nor where I found that.

    The way I see negativism is in putting your efforts into fixing problems, while positivists would puch advantages. Imagine you're trying to fix a problem here and someone's trying to convince to go chase something with them, annoying right?
    I think a part of it has to do with how society works around where one lives. I've found being a fixer to be considered much more positively than going after the good, which is seen as escaping responsabilities at times.

    The two are complementary, if you spend all your time fixing stuff here, you're not going anywhere else, and if you spend time only going after the good you leave a lot of broken stuff behind. There are times to fix and times to move on.
    I guess type influence what you want to fix and the good you seek, and also how one would phrase all this.
    Really cool perspective, Flowers & Sugar.

    Negativists Si, Ne & Fe can be fun but positivist Fi & Ti are pretty gnarly.

    I'm an extravert who likes listening & psychological complimentation may not be the same as simply having a fun or worthwhile conversation

    Just because a person has a positivist ego doesn't mean they never use their negativist super I'd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Really cool perspective, Flowers & Sugar.

    Negativists Si, Ne & Fe can be fun but positivist Fi & Ti are pretty gnarly.

    I'm an extravert who likes listening & psychological complimentation may not be the same as simply having a fun or worthwhile conversation

    Just because a person has a positivist ego doesn't mean they never use their negativist super I'd
    Oh boy, can you imagine a world where people can only have access to one of those attitude? I think I met one person like that, they didn't have a very good life. Always trying to fix something, and I'm not 100% they actualy had a negativist ego, poor thing. I was thinking SLI for them.

    And thanks.

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    dunno, sometimes people have criticized me before for being too positive and happy. One time I enraged this woman because my mood was too good and upbeat and she wanted me to pay more attention to the grim & gritty str8 world. 'I JUST DID SOMETHING SADISTIC AND FUCKED UP, FEEL BAD AND STOP TRYING TO DISNEY SUGAR COAT IT.' Sometimes I think I'm being 'in the middle' but people say I'm being too happy and idealistic and gay- I guess it's just in my nature though, I'm sorry. I'm very positive (Yang) energy. Somebody told me that even when I'm sad, I act light-hearted about it.

    I try to be all grim and straight and real but I shine too much.

    I prefer 'neutral' thinking to positive or negative tho because I think negativity isn't very constructive usually (unless it's karmically deserved?) and I think positive is like, just asking to get ur hopes crushed- but a lot of the world seems to be just neutral mechanical stuff that's neither good or bad.

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    I don't seem very negative until you get close to me then you get the storm clouds lol! It's more so the sense I just see where things can go wrong or just seeing things in a realistic fashion that is often not positive.

    Personally, I prefer a postivist. Simply because I am around negativists majority of the time. Like, two negatives do not get a positive and I can't work my magic with another negativist (in the sense, I feel useful that I can give the flip side to a positivist).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I don't seem very negative until you get close to me then you get the storm clouds lol! It's more so the sense I just see where things can go wrong or just seeing things in a realistic fashion that is often not positive.

    Personally, I prefer a postivist. Simply because I am around negativists majority of the time. Like, two negatives do not get a positive and I can't work my magic with another negativist (in the sense, I feel useful that I can give the flip side to a positivist).
    I hear ya. You definitely know yourself better than I do. Cheers, mate

    Positivist mentality chase, spend money & get into debt. The negativist mentality may compliment until the positivist mentality chases something else & makes a grubby mistake.

    Choosing that type of partner seems unwise. Parenting & doing charity are cool but a positivist mentality partner could bring their negativist mentality partner into debt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    I hear ya. You definitely know yourself better than I do. Cheers, mate

    Positivist mentality chase, spend money & get into debt. The negativist mentality may compliment until the positivist mentality chases something else & makes a grubby mistake.

    Choosing that type of partner seems unwise. Parenting & doing charity are cool but a positivist mentality partner could bring their negativist mentality partner into debt

    I definitely have a Positivist mentality. I'm spending at a high rate right now.

    I'll make it back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    I hear ya. You definitely know yourself better than I do. Cheers, mate

    Positivist mentality chase, spend money & get into debt. The negativist mentality may compliment until the positivist mentality chases something else & makes a grubby mistake.

    Choosing that type of partner seems unwise. Parenting & doing charity are cool but a positivist mentality partner could bring their negativist mentality partner into debt
    Eh? I'd rather keep positive and not have negative money or worry about money. Materialism is the road to unhappiness. Owning (=more stupid work for maintenance) makes me sad, f*ck that. I'd rather be happy.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Eh? I'd rather keep positive and not have negative money or worry about money. Materialism is the road to unhappiness. Owning (=more stupid work for maintenance) makes me sad, f*ck that. I'd rather be happy.
    Talk about money, I realize that Alpha seem to be the least care about money in 4 quadra. (They love to use Drama, their ultimate weapon instead)
    Beta care about money cuz Se
    Delta care about money cuz Te

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    Talk about money, I realize that Alpha seem to be the least care about money in 4 quadra. (They love to use Drama, their ultimate weapon instead)
    Beta care about money cuz Se
    Delta care about money cuz Te
    And I do not care either about serfdom or having slaves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    And I do not care either about serfdom or having slaves.
    How about group marriage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    How about group marriage?
    Alphas are probably the only quadra that could pull off group marriage happily, I imagine. Unfortunately pretty much everyone into polyamory is psycho.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    SLE have negativist mentality in the ego yet have positivist mentality in their Id & super-id. My dual has the positivist mentality (in their ego) however I sometimes like my mirage for their negativist mentality

    The mentalities are supposed to compliment but I'm interested your opinions.
    SEIs and EIEs are interesting to me because they have that positive Fe energy combined with a dark cynicism that ESEs and IEIs don't touch. EIEs are especially interesting to watch, I think because they're rational types -- the way they integrate these competing energies gives an impression like watching a churning sea suddenly erupt into a wave; there's just an explosion of directed force.

    IEEs just make me sad. I think they struggle dealing with their negativism. It seems to overtake them late in life and they all just seem to become depressive eventually.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Negativist types
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I definitely have a Positivist mentality. I'm spending at a high rate right now.

    I'll make it back.
    Says the ENTj. (Not a bad thing, dude)

    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Eh? I'd rather keep positive and not have negative money or worry about money. Materialism is the road to unhappiness. Owning (=more stupid work for maintenance) makes me sad, f*ck that. I'd rather be happy.
    I wouldn't suggest you doing crap you absolutely hate, for the record.
    Didn't associate positivist mentality with materialism. Positivist mentality might see potential in irresponsible acts such as a new relationship, a new (but unstable) lifestyle or unwise recreational activity. Neither of which directly relate to the pursuit of money.

    We're all responsible for making decent choices. If you are positivist ego, I recommend listening to your negativist super ID.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    Talk about money, I realize that Alpha seem to be the least care about money in 4 quadra. (They love to use Drama, their ultimate weapon instead)
    Beta care about money cuz Se
    Delta care about money cuz Te
    Se is about achieving an object of desire.

    I'd say alpha cares about atmosphere, comfort & convenience which vary according to their individual preference

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    SEIs and EIEs are interesting to me because they have that positive Fe energy combined with a dark cynicism that ESEs and IEIs don't touch. EIEs are especially interesting to watch, I think because they're rational types -- the way they integrate these competing energies gives an impression like watching a churning sea suddenly erupt into a wave; there's just an explosion of directed force.

    IEEs just make me sad. I think they struggle dealing with their negativism. It seems to overtake them late in life and they all just seem to become depressive eventually.
    That's fair but EIE & SEI use negativist Fe though. I'm not gonna shit on your experience. I appreciate your take

    Quote Originally Posted by Karanime View Post
    Negativist types
    I'm guessing you prefer interacting with those types

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    That's fair but EIE & SEI use negativist Fe though. I'm not gonna shit on your experience. I appreciate your take



    I'm guessing you prefer interacting with those types
    I have no preference. I prefer unique people and ones who well resonate to my energy, and who are spiritually sound.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    That's fair but EIE & SEI use negativist Fe though. I'm not gonna shit on your experience. I appreciate your take
    It could be that since I'm Fe-suggestive, I associate Fe with happiness. They seem linked in my mind somehow.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karanime View Post
    I have no preference. I prefer unique people and ones who well resonate to my energy, and who are spiritually sound.
    I guess was asking why you replied with "Negativist types" with no explanation to what that reply meant

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    It could be that since I'm Fe-suggestive, I associate Fe with happiness. They seem linked in my mind somehow.
    Cool

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    I seem to mostly be surrounded by Positivists, most of whom have been overwhelmed by my negativity and (at times) critical attitude at some point. When things are bad, I want to fully acknowledge that, so that I know what I'm dealing with, and so that I can find a real solution. What's so bad about that? When things are good, I try to acknowledge that, but I do admit that for the most part in my life I've mostly thought about how things have been bad and lacking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrInternet42069 View Post
    I seem to mostly be surrounded by Positivists, most of whom have been overwhelmed by my negativity and (at times) critical attitude at some point. When things are bad, I want to fully acknowledge that, so that I know what I'm dealing with, and so that I can find a real solution. What's so bad about that? When things are good, I try to acknowledge that, but I do admit that for the most part in my life I've mostly thought about how things have been bad and lacking.
    My mentality is that the world is pretty bad and "pessimists," roughly Negativists, are just realists. Optimists/Positivists can be a breath of fresh air though.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    More inclined to optimize already functional systems of things and processes.
    Yup

    "This glass is half-full"; "We have already collected $438,000 for that project."
    If things go from A to B then I look at it as a trend how to optimize it.

    Usually more complimenting than reprimanding
    I don't really critize people. See below.

    Socially and intellectually more trusting.
    When things check out then why not

    Explains what things are (irrationals) or should be (rationals).
    Hmmm.. again going forward.
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    Pretty sure ya'll are familiar with this article. Basically each type plays a role in the socion. LII with their negativist mentality ain't bad according to this particular theory...

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-Benefit-Rings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Pretty sure ya'll are familiar with this article. Basically each type plays a role in the socion. LII with their negativist mentality ain't bad according to this particular theory...

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-Benefit-Rings
    You say that like they're bad according to most theories. Lol.

    Actually, you talk about LII a lot, come to think of it. Why is that? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the type, since you seem to have some.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post

    Positivist mentality chase, spend money & get into debt. The negativist mentality may compliment until the positivist mentality chases something else & makes a grubby mistake.

    Choosing that type of partner seems unwise. Parenting & doing charity are cool but a positivist mentality partner could bring their negativist mentality partner into debt
    Yeah but I can drop a decent amount of cash too! But thats more my te Polr me thinks....

    I do agree with you though, they are a bit more prone to both. But, I like to think that both can balance each other out. I went shopping with an EI-Ne friend a couple years back and she had a lot more items then she really needed. I was able to get her haul down to half.

    If the individual is more so mature I think it's a bit less. Also depends if they are more so an irrational or an irrational subtype. I see the more positivists aspect with irrational types and subtypes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    You say that like they're bad according to most theories. Lol.

    Actually, you talk about LII a lot, come to think of it. Why is that? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the type, since you seem to have some.
    Mr. Internet asked the rhetorical question, "What's so bad about that?" with regards to his negativist mentality. The article supposes that each type, whether negativist mentality or positivist mentality play a role in the socion.

    LII (and ILE) break stereotypical descriptions with their Ne-ego. My Ti creative function figures, "Why not ask actual ILE/LII, who understand socionics theory, why their Ne-ego break stereotypical description?"

    LII, in particular, behave differently online than real life. An LII will act intelligently online then act contrary to that in real life

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    I am, undoubtedly 110% a realist and a negativist.

    And I wouldn't have it any other way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    LII (and ILE) break stereotypical descriptions with their Ne-ego. My Ti creative function figures, "Why not ask actual ILE/LII, who understand socionics theory, why their Ne-ego break stereotypical description?"
    You mean people like Hulenko break with more mainstream theory, or that mainstream theory doesn't accurately describe ILE/LII?

    LII, in particular, behave differently online than real life. An LII will act intelligently online then act contrary to that in real life
    Haha. Maybe, yeah. Do you have any particular stories?
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    This is a really bad misapplication of signed elements (apparently). It doesn't make sense to say that SLE's ego block is any less negative than LSI's - what would that even mean? Negativity is mostly about Ni anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    You mean people like Hulenko break with more mainstream theory, or that mainstream theory doesn't accurately describe ILE/LII?



    Haha. Maybe, yeah. Do you have any particular stories?
    I mean in the sense that Ne is primarily about ideas yet, in the outside world, ILEs/LIIs are gregarious & competitive

    The concrete world, as is, doesn't satisfy the curiosity of Ne. However, it is creative media (like journalism, art, social media, tv) that has a canvas that allows Ne the freedom to communicate its ideas. In a real life casual conversation, an LII might be 75% Ti & 25 Ne. Online, that same LII might be 35% Ti & 65% Ne because of the creativity that LII is allowed to communicate.

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    I wouldn't say I prefer a positivist over a negativist or vice versa, they both have different strengths. Other negativists seem more sober and sane in their approach, they are more relatable, make me feel understood. When a positivist is onto something, it is sometimes alarming and bothering because it seems like they are going after something, building something, catching something without fully evaluating the thing or covering existing or potential problems. However, due to the same reasons, their approach also seems refreshing and eye openning. Their approach reminds me to not evaluate everything that much, sometimes things work better when you just pursue them, they balance me out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    I mean in the sense that Ne is primarily about ideas yet, in the outside world, ILEs/LIIs are gregarious & competitive

    The concrete world, as is, doesn't satisfy the curiosity of Ne. However, it is creative media (like journalism, art, social media, tv) that has a canvas that allows Ne the freedom to communicate its ideas. In a real life casual conversation, an LII might be 75% Ti & 25 Ne. Online, that same LII might be 35% Ti & 65% Ne because of the creativity that LII is allowed to communicate.
    The way I behave can be very different depending on the environment, the people, my mood, time etc. However, concrete world also catches my curiousity a lot and when it doesn't for some time, I get bored and transform it into something that is interesting to me. However, I don't necessarily communicate my ideas about everything everywhere with everyone. Everything can be a canvas for Ne. I try lots of ideas and theories at work and also at my social settings, however, sometimes people may not have a clue, I generally share it with people who I think they are receptive to it.

  33. #33
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    We were born to lose, we'll always lose more than what we'll achieve, we started losing since we were torn from our mothers' wombs. It's a monkey-eats-monkey world and that's okay, it's how it's supposed to be. Which is why I try to overcompensate by achieving a lot more than what I can be capable of (and most of the time I manage to do it, because i'm good at everything i put myself to do), but yes, I do focus mostly on what i'll lose and that i'm always going to miss out on something, thus in hindsight... I've just been trying to accomplish a lot just to fill what I think I lack, probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    I wouldn't say I prefer a positivist over a negativist or vice versa, they both have different strengths. Other negativists seem more sober and sane in their approach, they are more relatable, make me feel understood. When a positivist is onto something, it is sometimes alarming and bothering because it seems like they are going after something, building something, catching something without fully evaluating the thing or covering existing or potential problems. However, due to the same reasons, their approach also seems refreshing and eye openning. Their approach reminds me to not evaluate everything that much, sometimes things work better when you just pursue them, they balance me out.




    The way I behave can be very different depending on the environment, the people, my mood, time etc. However, concrete world also catches my curiousity a lot and when it doesn't for some time, I get bored and transform it into something that is interesting to me. However, I don't necessarily communicate my ideas about everything everywhere with everyone. Everything can be a canvas for Ne. I try lots of ideas and theories at work and also at my social settings, however, sometimes people may not have a clue, I generally share it with people who I think they are receptive to it.
    Tbh, when there are people with negativist mentalities I will balance it with a positivist mentality. I might even be joking but the goal would be to steer the conversation in a wise direction.

    You're right. Some positivist mental functions get the party going. Fun times

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    from my experience with things like this it seems like positivists have the ability to really bring hope and encouragement to me when things are toughest where negativists are more straight forwards in retrospect to things like what is scientifically going on with me and they make me realize that i have to do something more practical with my own hands to escape my problems.so i like how both seem to paint a picture for me together of what real hope really is.this is how it was when times were the toughest for me and i will never forget how kindly people brought hope in the depths of despair.it makes me realize that both positivists and negativists tend to have empathy for people like me.and this made me realize how empathy should be what i value the most.this empathy inspires me still to be a people-person who would listen to anybodies story.
    we do not interfere with evolution.

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