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Thread: ILEs - one final quick question

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    Default ILEs - one final quick question

    1. An ILE who can actually take care of himself and doesn't need any help with that, and who can help me with the household chores and the children.

    2. An ILE who either sticks to one plan instead of jumping from idea to idea or an ILE who has no future plans. This is the most important quality my dual should have. I swear it makes me feel sick and dizzy how many times I have to put up with him constantly jumping around carelessly. Just the idea of my plans being destroyed by this jumping around hurts me.

    3. An ILE who doesn't give a shit how his food tastes or how well decorated some room is or about some physical carey thingy and who also doesn't want to talk about such nesty self preservation stuff.

    4. An ILE who can take my sadness seriously and not make silly jokes out of nowhere when I am sad.

    5. Also it would be nice if I could find one that doesn't talk about the future 24/7 and who also doesn't ask "Would you do x, y, z for me?" constantly.

    6. An ILE who can help remind me and get me to focus what I need to be doing right now so I can reach my goals. <- This is optional but much appreciated in a dual

    /\
    ||

    I just want an ILE who fits all of the above because I am starting to get pretty irritated...

    I get that he is searching for the best option, yadda yadda, but it makes me feel like I am riding one of those rollercoasters that shake you up and down and all around except you are blindfolded so you don't know what is happening. I feel completely powerless to enforce my vision of how everything should really go in the future and to get him to stick to one option. I am fighting an uphill battle where I will definitely lose... I grow cold and flakey and I am not sure the relationship will even last much longer because I feel so tired of all this stuff... He's not a bad guy, I just think he needs to find Sp first SEI who will actually help take care of him and who won't dismiss all of his needs for caretaking or be irritated by his need for lots of care, and who won't mind that he changes his plans all the time or goes on weird rants about how he wants all this comforting stuff... ( Unfortunately he doesn't like the duals that give off a relaxing aura or make him feel too comfortable...) He can be entertaining when he isn't talking about anything serious or some weird nesty stuff so he isn't super annoying or anything like that.

    If there aren't any ILEs that fit all of the above I will have to completely reject my duals as they are incompatible unless I am willing to suffer... Maybe it's true that SEIs are annoyed by their duals and we all have to either suffer and bear the pain or find a different type, but I am thinking maybe it's just this one that is troubling me and that the other ones will actually stick to a plan and more able to care for themselves and not care so much about weird nesty comfort things.

    All your answers are very welcome because I need some help for the last time...Then I'll just stop bothering you ILEs if it turns out that you guys are all really crazy as they say...

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    You want a Normalizing ILE
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    1. An ILE who can actually take care of himself and doesn't need any help with that, and who can help me with the household chores and the children.

    2. An ILE who either sticks to one plan instead of jumping from idea to idea or an ILE who has no future plans. This is the most important quality my dual should have. I swear it makes me feel sick and dizzy how many times I have to put up with him constantly jumping around carelessly. Just the idea of my plans being destroyed by this jumping around hurts me.

    3. An ILE who doesn't give a shit how his food tastes or how well decorated some room is or about some physical carey thingy and who also doesn't want to talk about such nesty self preservation stuff.

    4. An ILE who can take my sadness seriously and not make silly jokes out of nowhere when I am sad.

    5. Also it would be nice if I could find one that doesn't talk about the future 24/7 and who also doesn't ask "Would you do x, y, z for me?" constantly.

    6. An ILE who can help remind me and get me to focus what I need to be doing right now so I can reach my goals. <- This is optional but much appreciated in a dual

    /\
    ||

    I just want an ILE who fits all of the above because I am starting to get pretty irritated...

    I get that he is searching for the best option, yadda yadda, but it makes me feel like I am riding one of those rollercoasters that shake you up and down and all around except you are blindfolded so you don't know what is happening. I feel completely powerless to enforce my vision of how everything should really go in the future and to get him to stick to one option. I am fighting an uphill battle where I will definitely lose... I grow cold and flakey and I am not sure the relationship will even last much longer because I feel so tired of all this stuff... He's not a bad guy, I just think he needs to find Sp first SEI who will actually help take care of him and who won't dismiss all of his needs for caretaking or be irritated by his need for lots of care, and who won't mind that he changes his plans all the time or goes on weird rants about how he wants all this comforting stuff... ( Unfortunately he doesn't like the duals that give off a relaxing aura or make him feel too comfortable...) He can be entertaining when he isn't talking about anything serious or some weird nesty stuff so he isn't super annoying or anything like that.

    If there aren't any ILEs that fit all of the above I will have to completely reject my duals as they are incompatible unless I am willing to suffer... Maybe it's true that SEIs are annoyed by their duals and we all have to either suffer and bear the pain or find a different type, but I am thinking maybe it's just this one that is troubling me and that the other ones will actually stick to a plan and more able to care for themselves and not care so much about weird nesty comfort things.

    All your answers are very welcome because I need some help for the last time...Then I'll just stop bothering you ILEs if it turns out that you guys are all really crazy as they say...

    You keep asking your mirage to be your dual. You're an IEI expecting an ILE to be an SLE. Not saying you need to date an SLE but your basic issues with ILE stem from your dislike of Si-dual seeking & Ne-lead.

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    1. An ILE who can actually take care of himself and doesn't need any help with that, and who can help me with the household chores and the children.
    Ne bases usually do not accept help because... they are not victims but Ne types. Results may vary.
    2. An ILE who either sticks to one plan instead of jumping from idea to idea or an ILE who has no future plans. This is the most important quality my dual should have. I swear it makes me feel sick and dizzy how many times I have to put up with him constantly jumping around carelessly. Just the idea of my plans being destroyed by this jumping around hurts me.
    3. An ILE who doesn't give a shit how his food tastes or how well decorated some room is or about some physical carey thingy and who also doesn't want to talk about such nesty self preservation stuff.
    ILE's are picky about food and stuff
    4. An ILE who can take my sadness seriously and not make silly jokes out of nowhere when I am sad.
    The only way I can see this as a problem is under relational help like discussing shit about what people do.

    5. Also it would be nice if I could find one that doesn't talk about the future 24/7 and who also doesn't ask "Would you do x, y, z for me?" constantly.
    Again, Ne bases need to be forced to accept help. ILE's can be very stubborn Wile E Coyotes.
    6. An ILE who can help remind me and get me to focus what I need to be doing right now so I can reach my goals. <- This is optional but much appreciated in a dual
    what is the context of this particular problem?
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    1. An ILE who can actually take care of himself and doesn't need any help with that, and who can help me with the household chores and the children.

    2. An ILE who either sticks to one plan instead of jumping from idea to idea or an ILE who has no future plans. This is the most important quality my dual should have. I swear it makes me feel sick and dizzy how many times I have to put up with him constantly jumping around carelessly. Just the idea of my plans being destroyed by this jumping around hurts me.

    3. An ILE who doesn't give a shit how his food tastes or how well decorated some room is or about some physical carey thingy and who also doesn't want to talk about such nesty self preservation stuff.

    4. An ILE who can take my sadness seriously and not make silly jokes out of nowhere when I am sad.

    5. Also it would be nice if I could find one that doesn't talk about the future 24/7 and who also doesn't ask "Would you do x, y, z for me?" constantly.

    6. An ILE who can help remind me and get me to focus what I need to be doing right now so I can reach my goals. <- This is optional but much appreciated in a dual

    /\
    ||

    I just want an ILE who fits all of the above because I am starting to get pretty irritated...

    I get that he is searching for the best option, yadda yadda, but it makes me feel like I am riding one of those rollercoasters that shake you up and down and all around except you are blindfolded so you don't know what is happening. I feel completely powerless to enforce my vision of how everything should really go in the future and to get him to stick to one option. I am fighting an uphill battle where I will definitely lose... I grow cold and flakey and I am not sure the relationship will even last much longer because I feel so tired of all this stuff... He's not a bad guy, I just think he needs to find Sp first SEI who will actually help take care of him and who won't dismiss all of his needs for caretaking or be irritated by his need for lots of care, and who won't mind that he changes his plans all the time or goes on weird rants about how he wants all this comforting stuff... ( Unfortunately he doesn't like the duals that give off a relaxing aura or make him feel too comfortable...) He can be entertaining when he isn't talking about anything serious or some weird nesty stuff so he isn't super annoying or anything like that.

    If there aren't any ILEs that fit all of the above I will have to completely reject my duals as they are incompatible unless I am willing to suffer... Maybe it's true that SEIs are annoyed by their duals and we all have to either suffer and bear the pain or find a different type, but I am thinking maybe it's just this one that is troubling me and that the other ones will actually stick to a plan and more able to care for themselves and not care so much about weird nesty comfort things.

    All your answers are very welcome because I need some help for the last time...Then I'll just stop bothering you ILEs if it turns out that you guys are all really crazy as they say...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    You keep asking your mirage to be your dual. You're an IEI expecting an ILE to be an SLE. Not saying you need to date an SLE but your basic issues with ILE stem from your dislike of Si-dual seeking & Ne-lead.
    @MidnightWilderness, based on your stated wants and needs, @Stray Cat is spot-on. You aren't going to find what you are looking for in an ILE, but you very well might in an SLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Ne bases usually do not accept help because... they are not victims but Ne types. Results may vary.


    ILE's are picky about food and stuff

    The only way I can see this as a problem is under relational help like discussing shit about what people do.


    Again, Ne bases need to be forced to accept help. ILE's can be very stubborn Wile E Coyotes.

    what is the context of this particular problem?
    He is so not a victim, he doesn't need help with anything but some housekeeping stuff and his health. Not any actual difficult problems relating to anything remotely Se HA or Se DS. He is 100% ILE, he has clear examples of ITRs and has not once displayed victim behavior.

    "ILEs are picky about food and stuff"



    Yes he is stubborn most of the time, he doesn't want any help except for housekeeping and making his health better. Try to give him ethical or relationship advice or advice for the future or advice on what he should be doing with his time and he will quickly dismiss it. (Not that I try to give such advice to him btw) He can work by himself and be practical by himself.

    In what context?

    Well it isn't necessary that someone does that for me. I can be by myself you know. I think I might have focus problems unrelated to Socionics... Not too sure what you mean by "context", like a specific example? Um well I tend to drift off in thought and even though I know what I should be doing subconsciously, I seem to have trouble getting myself to focus on what I really should be doing at the current moment. I think I may have some attention disorder, and even if I don't, I don't think it has anything to do with Socionics. I feel embarrassed by my focus issues so just skip that please...

    He is Ne base, literally sees Ni as practically useless and doesn't even know what it does really. He would happily explore every single option until he got the best one. \

    He gets along perfectly well with people who I am sure are ESE and SEI. He also gets along well with IEIs but doesn't really understand them sometimes. He hates LIEs and argues with them constantly. He doesn't understand this Te practicality and finds it stuffy and ridiculous, and doesn't like it when LIE thinks he is being too impractical and frivolous with his ideas. He hates it when ESIs lecture him about ethical matters forcefully. He hates LSIs inability to see different future options and he hardcore supervises them and makes them upset. He does not like EIEs and thinks they are attention seeking drama queens. He fights with ILIs because he tries to make them see better ways to do things and ILI flat out rejects the Ne. He feels supervised by LSEs and EIIs and tries to stay away from them. He does not use intimidation tactics on anyone and is not extremely to the point and is not the kind of person to go around doing Se things at all. He also does not understand ethical matters at all and doesn't care if his behavior doesn't hold up to moral rules that Fi types make, he is Fi polr. He loves solving problems and only likes to think about NT matters, not once have I seen him attempt anything in the F region. He studies to become a computer programmer (very stereotypical I know) and loves to just sit inside and study it all day. His dream is to literally sit at home programming and enjoy a delicious healthy meal while his wife takes care of all of the housework and comforts him.

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    Are you sure you're an SEI?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    He is so not a victim, he doesn't need help with anything but some housekeeping stuff and his health. Not any actual difficult problems relating to anything remotely Se HA or Se DS. He is 100% ILE, he has clear examples of ITRs and has not once displayed victim behavior.

    "ILEs are picky about food and stuff"



    Yes he is stubborn most of the time, he doesn't want any help except for housekeeping and making his health better. Try to give him ethical or relationship advice or advice for the future or advice on what he should be doing with his time and he will quickly dismiss it. (Not that I try to give such advice to him btw) He can work by himself and be practical by himself.

    In what context?

    Well it isn't necessary that someone does that for me. I can be by myself you know. I think I might have focus problems unrelated to Socionics... Not too sure what you mean by "context", like a specific example? Um well I tend to drift off in thought and even though I know what I should be doing subconsciously, I seem to have trouble getting myself to focus on what I really should be doing at the current moment. I think I may have some attention disorder, and even if I don't, I don't think it has anything to do with Socionics. I feel embarrassed by my focus issues so just skip that please...

    He is Ne base, literally sees Ni as practically useless and doesn't even know what it does really. He would happily explore every single option until he got the best one. \

    He gets along perfectly well with people who I am sure are ESE and SEI. He also gets along well with IEIs but doesn't really understand them sometimes. He hates LIEs and argues with them constantly. He doesn't understand this Te practicality and finds it stuffy and ridiculous, and doesn't like it when LIE thinks he is being too impractical and frivolous with his ideas. He hates it when ESIs lecture him about ethical matters forcefully. He hates LSIs inability to see different future options and he hardcore supervises them and makes them upset. He does not like EIEs and thinks they are attention seeking drama queens. He fights with ILIs because he tries to make them see better ways to do things and ILI flat out rejects the Ne. He feels supervised by LSEs and EIIs and tries to stay away from them. He does not use intimidation tactics on anyone and is not extremely to the point and is not the kind of person to go around doing Se things at all. He also does not understand ethical matters at all and doesn't care if his behavior doesn't hold up to moral rules that Fi types make, he is Fi polr. He loves solving problems and only likes to think about NT matters, not once have I seen him attempt anything in the F region. He studies to become a computer programmer (very stereotypical I know) and loves to just sit inside and study it all day. His dream is to literally sit at home programming and enjoy a delicious healthy meal while his wife takes care of all of the housework and comforts him.

    You described an ILE perfectly and you see his relationships very, very well, but you don't seem to see that you are describing him from an IEI perspective, not an SEI perspective.

    The SEI that I know, who works with an ILE, just chases him around and finds his underpants when he loses them several times a day, and reminds him to bathe, and is in awe of his intellect, but is certain that she's his natural boss. She is supportive and undemanding and indulgent. Is that how you see your ILE?

    Or do you see him as lacking the characteristics of an SLE?

    *EDIT* I work with an ILE and I don't think he exactly hates me, but then I don't have high expectations for our relationship. I admire his politics and can't stand the effects of his Ne, which adversely affects the bottom line. Still, I understand that he's not an LIE, and he does do many things well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayberk View Post
    Are you sure you're an SEI?
    Well I don't have ITR proof to say I am one way or the other since I haven't interacted with enough people whose types I can be sure of. My boyfriend says I have to be SEI, that I can't be anything else, and at least up to 2 to 4 people think otherwise. I've never ever met a Se ego and I haven't interacted with an ILE outside of this one.

    All I can be 100% sure on is that I am some Fe/Ti valuing ethical type and likely introverted rather than extroverted. So until I can be 100% sure I have not made a mistake either way I think I might just become type less for awhile. I don't really think I have shown any real evidence of having 4D Ni yet... ESE or EIE would be pathetic typings because my usage of Fe is different from EIE, and as for ESEs... I haven't seen one that acted anything like how I act. I really doubt I am Ni PoLR, 2D Ni at the very least makes sense.

    TL;DR I can't claim certainty in my type because I don't have enough solid, unshakable evidence to argue one way or another. People seem to have no current consensus on my type either except for XEI over other possible typings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You described an ILE perfectly and you see his relationships very, very well, but you don't seem to see that you are describing him from an IEI perspective, not an SEI perspective.

    The SEI that I know, who works with an ILE, just chases him around and finds his underpants when he loses them several times a day, and reminds him to bathe, and is in awe of his intellect, but is certain that she's his natural boss. She is supportive and undemanding and indulgent. Is that how you see your ILE?

    Or do you see him as lacking the characteristics of an SLE?

    *EDIT* I work with an ILE and I don't think he exactly hates me, but then I don't have high expectations for our relationship. I admire his politics and can't stand the effects of his Ne, which adversely affects the bottom line. Still, I understand that he's not an LIE, and he does do many things well.
    I do not want to think of myself as my partner's boss that's just cringy to think of your partner that way no matter your type. He isn't a man child or desperately in need of help... He is a smart, caring guy and I respect him, I don't act like "ohh he's a dumby dumbo who needs me to help him with thingies..." Yes I sometimes cringe a little inside when he can't figure out an ethical problem but I understand he is Fi PoLR... He probably cringes when I do something illogical as well but calmy just does his logical things. Intellect isn't really everything in a relationship (I mean stereotypical intellect like NT intellect), but it is respectable.
    I don't want to remind anyone to do anything when I even forget things like that sometimes. I am supportive of his choices, I just don't want to ride his Ne rollercoaster or really have to chase him around and take care of him all day when even I need reminders to drink water.. It really drains me to do such reminders because I forget my own reminders... I also do not want to keep up with the level of care that he needs, it seems demanding and exhausting... He can't really help me either except in a Te demo, Ti creative way???

    It's more like we just semi support each other but at the same time not? I don't really know how to describe it.

    I really am thinking he needs someone else no matter what type I turn out to be. I'm trying to figure out a way we could possibly work together but it just seems more and more unlikely...

    I don't know what SLE is like so I can't comment on that... I have never met Se ego in real life.

    (Adam, this LIE is his father, also this LIE had a rough childhood in 90s Russia. Imagine having to hear ILE talk 24/7 and also having to raise one...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    I do not want to think of myself as my partner's boss that's just cringy to think of your partner that way no matter your type. He isn't a man child or desperately in need of help... He is a smart, caring guy and I respect him, I don't act like "ohh he's a dumby dumbo who needs me to help him with thingies..." Yes I sometimes cringe a little inside when he can't figure out an ethical problem but I understand he is Fi PoLR... He probably cringes when I do something illogical as well but calmy just does his logical things. Intellect isn't really everything in a relationship (I mean stereotypical intellect like NT intellect), but it is respectable.
    I don't want to remind anyone to do anything when I even forget things like that sometimes. I am supportive of his choices, I just don't want to ride his Ne rollercoaster or really have to chase him around and take care of him all day when even I need reminders to drink water.. It really drains me to do such reminders because I forget my own reminders... I also do not want to keep up with the level of care that he needs, it seems demanding and exhausting... He can't really help me either except in a Te demo, Ti creative way???

    It's more like we just semi support each other but at the same time not? I don't really know how to describe it.

    I really am thinking he needs someone else no matter what type I turn out to be. I'm trying to figure out a way we could possibly work together but it just seems more and more unlikely...
    I had the same thoughts when I was dating an LSI for four years, which for me is a Mirage relationship. I mean, there were days when I loved her and days when I thought I never wanted to see her again. During this time, I kept trying to tell her that a Dual would be better for her and her response was that I had mis-typed her and that we had something that you almost never find (this was true, actually), so stop rocking the boat. After our third or fourth breakup, always instigated by me because I knew we weren't optimal, it finally stuck and I met a Dual and I've never felt like she was a problem (other than the fact that she's moving extremely slowly in the intimacy department, which the LSI certainly did not do).

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    I don't know what SLE is like so I can't comment on that... I have never met Se ego in real life.
    I'm sure you've met SLEs before. You just didn't recognize them. They vary a lot, let me tell you. They can vary from guys who are basically criminal lifers to guys who are highly educated and accomplished true gentlemen. It really helps to have looked at examples of SLEs on line, and to constantly correct your vision.

    I know an IEI-Fe who fell in love with a rich Architect who was strong, tall, handsome, an ex-Marine, and an LSE. LSE's can look a lot like SLEs. That relationship lasted two years. One year to get into it, and one year to realize that everything was shit and then figure out how to get out.
    An IEI, in getting ready to go to work, might leave her panties on the floor because she's in a hurry. An SLE will notice her panties on the floor and will pick them up and throw them in the hamper, then will go on to the next thing without giving it a second thought. An LSE will pick up the panties and will be waiting with them at the door when she gets home and will tell her that she didn't put them away correctly. Just so you know the difference.

    Not knowing what ESIs looked or acted like was my problem when I first encountered Socionics. YouTube helped a bit, but my impression from YouTube was that my Duals were brainless strippers. It wasn't until I met a few and spent some time with them that I realized that I actually felt really good after being with them for a few hours. Reliably recognizing them on the street took about four years, but then, I don't mix much and I don't have the eye that most people have.

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    (Adam, this LIE is his father, also this LIE had a rough childhood in 90s Russia. Imagine having to hear ILE talk 24/7 and also having to raise one...)
    That would be hard on everyone. I know a female LIE whose oldest son is an ILE, and I heard her tell him, after he was goofing around randomly, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?", which is not something you should say to anyone, but which is something that you often feel when interacting with members of the opposite Quadra.

    I mean, nothing is "wrong" with them. They are just being who they are, and it's not anyone's fault that you both see everything differently.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-14-2021 at 02:45 PM.

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    1. An ILE who can't take care of himself or do household chores is exhibiting characteristics of how he was raised not necessarily his type. Now, ILEs won't be all that structured but they're not lazy.

    2. An ILE will have trouble sticking to a plan; they're input driven so you have to be his anchor.

    3. An ILE usually doesn't give a shit how his food tastes or how well decorated some room is so this is puzzling.

    4. An ILE is too detached to empathise with your sadness. They'll usually give you the straight goods if asked but you have to know the right questions.

    5. ILE strength is seeing the future and possibilities and you're asking him to not talk about it.

    6. An ILE typically won't remind anybody including themselves of anything; they're butterflies so focus is the anchor's responsibility.

    His strengths are complementary but they won't always compensate for your shortcomings.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    1. An ILE who can't take care of himself or do household chores is exhibiting characteristics of how he was raised not necessarily his type. Now, ILEs won't be all that structured but they're not lazy.

    2. An ILE will have trouble sticking to a plan; they're input driven so you have to be his anchor.

    3. An ILE usually doesn't give a shit how his food tastes or how well decorated some room is so this is puzzling.

    4. An ILE is too detached to empathise with your sadness. They'll usually give you the straight goods if asked but you have to know the right questions.

    5. ILE strength is seeing the future and possibilities and you're asking him to not talk about it.

    6. An ILE typically won't remind anybody including themselves of anything; they're butterflies so focus is the anchor's responsibility.

    His strengths are complementary but they won't always compensate for your shortcomings.

    a.k.a. I/O
    1. Hmm I guess it's just this one then, and no he isn't lazy, I don't think not cleaning is lazy at all. He studies and learns a lot in his free time, he just is not lazy. I am not asking him to clean either, I would be fine if he didn't ask me to clean.

    2. I can't really be an anchor and I doubt ILEs need an anchor because I imagine they would hate to be tied down. What should I do, give him an hour long lecture about how we should do this instead? I don't want to force him into something or to go somewhere he didn't want to go in the first place.

    3. I guess it's just this one then...

    4. Fair point, it was a small nitpick.

    5. Yes because I don't need to hear it... I don't ask him to stop, I just wish he would do that with someone else.

    6. I have no focus for an anchor, I probably have some kind of attention disorder.

    Hmm... Well... Maybe another ILE will be more complementary because a lot of the time he runs in a direction that would destroy my plans. I'd rather not have that happen. In fact I don't even care if I don't get any help, my partner could just be someone I hang out with that doesn't try to help me at all. He could be my identical that wouldn't be able to help me at all and I wouldn't care. I guess I just feel too confident about the future and my possibilities to really want to rely on someone else for that. In my logic, no I am not confident, but I will suck it up.

    Duality is highly overrated anyways, I will just manage to convince him he should find someone better and then try to find an identical or something like that.

    He should find a SEI that is better suited for him than me, I won't magically change into an anchor overnight. He is not lazy and is highly capable of things, just I can't deal with it at all and I would rather be on my own. He has found SEIs that he describes as "The perfect person that you always dreamed of, where the conversation flows smoothly." He talks much better with them, but refuses to go with anyone else because he claims that this SEI made him too comfortable and he says he wants "A challenge" with me. Every reason we shouldn't be together is just "illusions" even though I can already tell things won't go quite right. Sometimes I love talking to him, and sometimes I want to be left alone. I hate him already, he needs to leave me alone so I can have the future that I want to have and so that I don't hurt him further as apparently I seem to only make him fall madly in love with me or suffer...

    I just wanted to go in my own direction, not make everyone bow down to me and I certainly don't want to rule over him.

    Not once did I say he had to clean.
    Not once did I tell him to change his job plans.
    Not once did I tell him to stop talking about the future.
    Not once did I force him to comply or else.

    I just simply suggested we go here...

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    @MidnightWilderness, I'll bet money that your efforts to get him to leave first come to nothing. He's decided that you are a better deal than he's likely to get elsewhere, without a lot of effort on his part. I did the same thing with my LSI ex-GF, and all she did was tell me to stop talking about her finding someone else.

    Incidentally, I think that urging the other person to leave you is a Victim move, both because it seems victimy and because I did it. Walking away without discussing anything or looking back is an Aggressor move.

    But in any case, I wish you luck in resolving this to your benefit and satisfaction.

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    @MidnightWilderness

    ILEs don't like to be tied down but they need to be - to an limited extent. Duality isn't necessarily desired; it's what one needs. As an aside, you seem to express yourself like an IEI.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I'm thinking that MW could be EII. (reason over stressed sensing and hard to accept Fi devaluation which is expected to help the person and not be maneuverable in the moment - what SEI would do)
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    I'm thinking that MW could be EII. (reason over stressed sensing and hard to accept Fi devaluation which is expected to help the person and not be maneuverable in the moment - what SEI would do)
    Except I've known three or four ILE-IEI couples, all of which eventually broke up after the initial attraction disappeared in the face of experience, and zero ILE-EII couples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    I'm thinking that MW could be EII. (reason over stressed sensing and hard to accept Fi devaluation)
    Omg nooooooooo, that makes no sense for me... I don't think it's hard for me to accept Fi devaluation and I am so not rational. I can give you so many examples and reasons for why I could not be EII... My dreams are far from EIIs, I hate Te practicality and efficiency and I've been so rude and unfi-ish sometimes that it's just ridiculous.

    I have strong Fi demo but it doesn't go over my Fe most times... I use so much Fe here that how tf am I Fe ignoring???

    I don't need a caretaker so that makes no sense????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Except I've known three or four ILE-IEI couples, all of which broke up eventually, and zero ILE-EII couples.
    But the IEI is not personal relationship coach either unlike EII, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    Omg nooooooooo, that makes no sense for me... I don't think it's hard for me to accept Fi devaluation and I am so not rational. I can give you so many examples and reasons for why I could not be EII... My dreams are far from EIIs, I hate Te practicality and efficiency and I've been so rude and unfi-ish sometimes that it's just ridiculous.

    I have strong Fi demo but it doesn't go over my Fe most times... I use so much Fe here that how tf am I Fe ignoring???

    I don't need a caretaker so that makes no sense????
    Maybe you are depressed? IDK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    Omg nooooooooo, that makes no sense for me... I don't think it's hard for me to accept Fi devaluation and I am so not rational. I can give you so many examples and reasons for why I could not be EII... My dreams are far from EIIs, I hate Te practicality and efficiency and I've been so rude and unfi-ish sometimes that it's just ridiculous.

    I have strong Fi demo but it doesn't go over my Fe most times... I use so much Fe here that how tf am I Fe ignoring???

    I don't need a caretaker so that makes no sense????

    Lol. It makes sense if the author is an Ne-dom. Hey, you could be a caterpillar, too. Or a shower of green notes on a crystalline bubble. ( <= 4D Ne of LIE )

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    ESE could also make sense since they want to direct LII's Fi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    ESE could also make sense since they want to direct LII's Fi.
    ESE are Fi ignoring. Do you see yourself as directing SEIs Ni?

    Also I am introverted, I don't match any descriptions of ESE and absolutely no one has suggested ESE as a legitimate typing for me, and EII is just... no... :\

    I can explain further why EII and ESE are flat out wrong, but I feel flabbergasted that you even suggested these typings for me at all considering the evidence against those typings already and I don't really know how to even respond at the moment to that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    ESE are Fi ignoring. Do you see yourself as directing SEIs Ni?

    Also I am introverted, I don't match any descriptions of ESE and absolutely no one has suggested ESE as a legitimate typing for me, and EII is just... no... :\

    I can explain further why EII and ESE are flat out wrong, but I feel flabbergasted that you even suggested these typings for me at all considering the evidence against those typings already and I don't really know how to even respond at the moment to that...
    Yes, ignoring is supposed to give indirect help via commentary and demonstrative is supposed to work as ad hoc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Yes, ignoring is supposed to give indirect help via commentary and demonstrative is supposed to work as ad hoc.
    Hmm okay but ESE is still not my type.

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    About the food. ILE is picky eater but does not care about the taste. ILE's are just afraid of unpleasant experiences but I suppose you could leave food to his own responsibility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @MidnightWilderness

    ILEs don't like to be tied down but they need to be - to an limited extent. Duality isn't necessarily desired; it's what one needs. As an aside, you seem to express yourself like an IEI.

    a.k.a. I/O
    We may need duality but its ought to be noted that functions need complimenting, not necessarily a dual person.
    Chilling with an IEI is cool, they CAN offer decent insight but also delusion.
    Were all awesome & shitty, that's why dating is overrated.
    Hearing IEI interviews, having IEI buddies compliments SLE just fine.

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    @Stray Cat I agree that type can be complemented from several sources which may be superior at times from that of a dual. Eps, especially, may prefer a variety of sources over that from one individual but multiple sources tend to lack personal investment in their shares of limited partnerships. I'm sure that at various phases in one's life or under certain conditions, duality would not be ideal; duality tends to define the sustained climate needs but under certain weather conditions, they'd be absolutely useless.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Alright, so I'd say it's pretty clear that you are not an SEI, or at the very least not a normal SEI. From what you've said over the course of your time on this forum, what seems to have happened is that your ILE bf saw that you had decent Si and clear Fe creative and thought "yup, that's an SEI", without considering the fact that you're not someone whose main goal in life is to be some guy's housewife(as is pretty common for ILE's to expect of SEI's). I'm not saying you're IEI, but you clearly don't have the willingness to wholeheartedly take care of him that he expects. Fundamentally, your description of your preferred dual is probably correct, and you should follow it, but you're probably gonna end up having to be the one to go out and at the least try to find someone who fits that description better.

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    I know you have probably heard this plenty of times before. But are you sure you're SEI and not IEI? Many of the things you posted are things that a stressed out IEI in a mirage relationship would post. Maybe you don't think you're Ni base because you don't see yourself objectively. I have seen some of your previous posts and can see that you can express yourself quite poetically, similar to what I have seen from other IEI. If you're truly IEI, word of advice: "Believe in yourself."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
    I know you have probably heard this plenty of times before. But are you sure you're SEI and not IEI? Many of the things you posted are things that a stressed out IEI in a mirage relationship would post. Maybe you don't think you're Ni base because you don't see yourself objectively. I have seen some of your previous posts and can see that you can express yourself quite poetically, similar to what I have seen from other IEI. If you're truly IEI, word of advice: "Believe in yourself."
    Yes, belief transfigures new umbrellas of deep yearning and habitat expansion for eying the canvas of new surprise and bonding. Faith showers the convalescence of mirth and daydreams with a firm grip on the tectonic galloping of the mountaintop. Belief conjures the alchemy and hidden formulas for refracting the true light of all that is, and creating all that could be.
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    It's a shame you can't meet my buddy, though he's in his mid to late forties. He's highly organized, caring, but is an ILE in every other respect and he's single. He doesn't think anyone would want him because of health issues (he can't be in the sun, for one thing).
    Unless he's LSE but I don't see it. Plus he gets along well with his daughter and her bf who are both IEI.

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    1. An ILE who can actually take care of himself and doesn't need any help with that, and who can help me with the household chores and the children. This is reasonable to expect - type shouldn't be used as an excuse why you can't pull your weight in a relationship. Anybody should be helping you with this, regardless of type (though it's naive to expect it will ever be completely 50/50)

    2. An ILE who either sticks to one plan instead of jumping from idea to idea or an ILE who has no future plans. This is the most important quality my dual should have. I swear it makes me feel sick and dizzy how many times I have to put up with him constantly jumping around carelessly. Just the idea of my plans being destroyed by this jumping around hurts me. This is the nature of Ne, unfortunately. Ne sucks this way lol. If it annoys you too badly, it is possible you don't really dual seek it. Or the ILEs you've experienced just suck. I think people on the thread might be blaming you a little too much, when ILEs can indeed be useless pussies.

    3. An ILE who doesn't give a shit how his food tastes or how well decorated some room is or about some physical carey thingy and who also doesn't want to talk about such nesty self preservation stuff. Well to be fair, I think everybody cares about taste to an extent- I'm not sure anybody really enjoys just eating frozen meals for every meal. I think it's a superficial stereotype that SEIs should just be content on baking Martha Stewart crap for a lazy and mama's boy retarded ILE who just sits on his ass and talks all day and does nothing with his life. You should at least go for ILEs who have a job already probably- and have that stuff straightened out yourself too even if you have Te polr because nothing good comes from playing nurse to a cowardly loser. For duality to work, both people have to be independent and "healthy" first- and doing what they want narcissitically, and taking responsibility for their actions/choices.

    But yes - most people care about taste to some extent, not too many people are really happy with bad frozen meals & McDonalds for all the meals, or most of them. ILEs can be worldly and uppity like that, where they want to experience different cusine. Most ILE males I know like eating at fancy restaurants- but they also can be more fun-loving & not as serious with it cuz of the Fe valuing.

    4. An ILE who can take my sadness seriously and not make silly jokes out of nowhere when I am sad. This is how Fi polr works, unfortunately .. they need to be hit on the nose with a rolled up newspaper at times.
    5. Also it would be nice if I could find one that doesn't talk about the future 24/7 and who also doesn't ask "Would you do x, y, z for me?" constantly. No healthy adult human should be asking you of that- but you also have to look at yourself and how you are also allowing that kind of co-dependent behavior from people. If you really don't like it, fix what you are doing to make people think that you are their mom for free (when you clearly don't wanna be in that role) I don't know many ILEs that really do that, but they do come off as needy cowardly babies lots of the time. Especially for IEI, cuz we're victimy losers and want our duals just to be hot aggressive bad boys/girls.

    6. An ILE who can help remind me and get me to focus what I need to be doing right now so I can reach my goals. <- This is optional but much appreciated in a dual You have to care deeply about them yourself first and foremost or nobody else will give a shit, either. Embrace your healthy narcissism, you don't really need encouragement from others. If it matters to you, then it matters.

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    Almost every thread you make seems to turn into “you’re IEI not SEI” thread
    although I don’t have a strong opinion on your type (still in Ne exploratory mode wrt you honestly, although I have skimmed rather than read many posts - still, I’m aware of how majority can be off or too quick to come to a conclusion so…)

    but I wonder if it’s really worth making threads publicly when it might like devolve into that based on content would be…fruitful, as opposed to just chatting with people whose input you like individually about this stuff.

    just some thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    1. An ILE who can actually take care of himself and doesn't need any help with that, and who can help me with the household chores and the children. This is reasonable to expect - type shouldn't be used as an excuse why you can't pull your weight in a relationship. Anybody should be helping you with this, regardless of type (though it's naive to expect it will ever be completely 50/50)

    2. An ILE who either sticks to one plan instead of jumping from idea to idea or an ILE who has no future plans. This is the most important quality my dual should have. I swear it makes me feel sick and dizzy how many times I have to put up with him constantly jumping around carelessly. Just the idea of my plans being destroyed by this jumping around hurts me. This is the nature of Ne, unfortunately. Ne sucks this way lol. If it annoys you too badly, it is possible you don't really dual seek it. Or the ILEs you've experienced just suck. I think people on the thread might be blaming you a little too much, when ILEs can indeed be useless pussies.

    3. An ILE who doesn't give a shit how his food tastes or how well decorated some room is or about some physical carey thingy and who also doesn't want to talk about such nesty self preservation stuff. Well to be fair, I think everybody cares about taste to an extent- I'm not sure anybody really enjoys just eating frozen meals for every meal. I think it's a superficial stereotype that SEIs should just be content on baking Martha Stewart crap for a lazy and mama's boy retarded ILE who just sits on his ass and talks all day and does nothing with his life. You should at least go for ILEs who have a job already probably- and have that stuff straightened out yourself too even if you have Te polr because nothing good comes from playing nurse to a cowardly loser. For duality to work, both people have to be independent and "healthy" first- and doing what they want narcissitically, and taking responsibility for their actions/choices.

    But yes - most people care about taste to some extent, not too many people are really happy with bad frozen meals & McDonalds for all the meals, or most of them. ILEs can be worldly and uppity like that, where they want to experience different cusine. Most ILE males I know like eating at fancy restaurants- but they also can be more fun-loving & not as serious with it cuz of the Fe valuing.

    4. An ILE who can take my sadness seriously and not make silly jokes out of nowhere when I am sad. This is how Fi polr works, unfortunately .. they need to be hit on the nose with a rolled up newspaper at times.
    5. Also it would be nice if I could find one that doesn't talk about the future 24/7 and who also doesn't ask "Would you do x, y, z for me?" constantly. No healthy adult human should be asking you of that- but you also have to look at yourself and how you are also allowing that kind of co-dependent behavior from people. If you really don't like it, fix what you are doing to make people think that you are their mom for free (when you clearly don't wanna be in that role) I don't know many ILEs that really do that, but they do come off as needy cowardly babies lots of the time. Especially for IEI, cuz we're victimy losers and want our duals just to be hot aggressive bad boys/girls.

    6. An ILE who can help remind me and get me to focus what I need to be doing right now so I can reach my goals. <- This is optional but much appreciated in a dual You have to care deeply about them yourself first and foremost or nobody else will give a shit, either. Embrace your healthy narcissism, you don't really need encouragement from others. If it matters to you, then it matters.
    That's nice BandD but honestly, I think I expect too much to ever be happy with someone so... oh well... He's fine, I guess I just don't really know what to do anymore with him. Also I don't really notice my dual seeking function and I don't really care for it. I don't really need Ne or whatever it is to function, I just want someone to talk to who understands me perfectly but my expectations are too high there. I get that I am terrible with finances and that he is better at it, he is just better with practical things compared to my sad SEI ass because I'm like "Ah money? I wanted to be a broke translator and then a broke artist." I just hate it when he changes his plans and it conflicts with my plans, and I feel freaking helpless to even argue with him, I feel like constantly changing your plans is so unnecessary and wastes time and creates extra problems, but I know he will be all like "But I am trying to find the best variant!" Co-Dependant? When I am the useless side lackey that spaces off too much and doesn't understand finances? It's me that will be dependent on him, unless I can get it to go the correct way.

    Also for everyone on this thread, I've decided I am SEI as I do not use Ni at a 4D level. I don't feel DS as hard because I am SEI-Fe.

    I am probably self centered to the point where I am considering just not ever being with someone at this point. Maybe I will break with him and maybe I won't. I just want to feel understood like any self centered person would, but that likely won't happen unless I date someone who is practically me. At least I will still always have my goals to look forward to and my imaginary friends. <3

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    What's all this about ILE and food? I'll try anything and I get really bored of mundane food. I have a picture of my ILE son at 16 months old with squid tentacles hanging out of his mouth.
    Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."

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