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Thread: Se as "Crotchetiness" or "Anger"

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    jason_m's Avatar
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    Default Se as "Crotchetiness" or "Anger"

    Is Se simply someone crotchety? I ask this, as I have noticed a lot of the examples of people who are 'Se' are just angry. Does this define Se in some way? Or are these just weak ethical functions? Or something else?

    The point is, if Se were not angry or crotchety at all, then I would be Se-valuing. However, as someone who doesn't value this in any way, I don't type myself as Se-valuing.

    What is your opinion? Any opinions are welcome...

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    E.g., think of Napoleon Bonaparte (SEE) or Christopher Michael Langan (LSI) and the type of 'temper tantrums' either can display... Is something being conflated here? Or is this my mistake?

    Even someone like Katy Perry - SEE or maybe even EIE. She has this energy, and vibe she gives off (Fe), but there is this b*tchiness I sense under the surface. From my side, she is almost like moth-and-the-flame, if not exactly that...
    Last edited by jason_m; 06-13-2021 at 09:58 AM.

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    The Chosen Prophet. Braingel's Avatar
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    Well if you are Si valuing, it would of course appear more in this way. Se is not your placid Si, concerned with regulation; homeostasis.

    Se exudes force and action, which can be somewhat a more aggressive approach. A kick/push, rather than tap/nudge.

    You also have a matter of health. My father is an abusive, emotionally and physically, unhealthy 8. He is an SLE. Despite being my "dual", he and I clash like no other, and he even brings out my inner aggression. Whereas I met an SLE who also was unhealthy 8 like my father and he and I got along fine, though he was in healthier state when I had in person, met him.

    He and I had sudden chemistry. I am socially reclusive and was not exactly all too confident in my meeting him, but synchronicty hit nail with its hammer, and it had pegged in compatibility. I have not had that much a flow of compatibility in my life, but he was not of well health and far too unstable for me. But that was a matter of his health and poor inability to cope with stress.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    The Chosen Prophet. Braingel's Avatar
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    Point being here is that health is pertinent.

    You cannot just generalize Se to grouchy countenance, when there are other factors at stake. I would incline to say unhealthy sx and sp 8's are your more pissy Se. An Sx unhealthy 1, as well. You also can have some Se who are chipper, upbeat.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    You're defining Se as an emotional state as it appears to you.

    Se is a forceful, bullying function that people only see as bad cause that's how it effects non-Se valuers

    If you want to know what us SLE are really like, watch Jenna Marbles on YouTube or any Mila Kunis or Leonardo DiCaprio interviews

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Se bases are usually easy going.

    Anger and crotchetiness is something I associate with certain LSEs.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Se bases are usually easy going.

    Anger and crotchetiness is something I associate with certain LSEs.
    I have seen it in people I found LSE at times as well...

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    “Crotchety” seems like a strange word choice to me. The connotations of the word maybe call to my mind LSIs, but I wouldn’t particularly associate that word with any other Se type, I think.

    LSEs are another type that tends to get angry often, so I don’t think anger is particularly tied to Se. Maybe you could tentatively tie a tendency to get angry to S in general, but only because S people tend to involve themselves in the world more in some ways and so have more opportunity/motivation to feel angry, not because S makes you angry or something. Anger is too broad to be linked to any specific function.

    There are also problems of difference in perception. @Tallmo sees Se bases as easy-going, for instance. I’d describe them as high-strung. Unless everyone is very clear what they all mean by things like “anger,” it’s likely people will talk past each other.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    You're defining Se as an emotional state as it appears to you.

    Se is a forceful, bullying function that people only see as bad cause that's how it effects non-Se valuers

    If you want to know what us SLE are really like, watch Jenna Marbles on YouTube or any Mila Kunis or Leonardo DiCaprio interviews
    I actually don't mind any of those people. I just watched Jenna Marbles. It's just her style of humor. It's offensive to some, but not angry to me. Mila Kunis could not have been more appealing to me in Black Swan. Someone I typed in those days when the movie came out as EIE that I buy is SLE. No: there can be exceptions...

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    “Crotchety” seems like a strange word choice to me. The connotations of the word maybe call to my mind LSIs, but I wouldn’t particularly associate that word with any other Se type, I think.
    With LSIs you have the shitty Fe (combined with Se creative and Ne polr). They can really be toxic in some cases.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    “Crotchety” seems like a strange word choice to me. The connotations of the word maybe call to my mind LSIs, but I wouldn’t particularly associate that word with any other Se type, I think.

    LSEs are another type that tends to get angry often, so I don’t think anger is particularly tied to Se. Maybe you could tentatively tie a tendency to get angry to S in general, but only because S people tend to involve themselves in the world more in some ways and so have more opportunity/motivation to feel angry, not because S makes you angry or something. Anger is too broad to be linked to any specific function.

    There are also problems of difference in perception. @Tallmo sees Se bases as easy-going, for instance. I’d describe them as high-strung. Unless everyone is very clear what they all mean by things like “anger,” it’s likely people will talk past each other.
    How so? Are they that in the sense that they are people who want to get a lot of things done in one day and be in charge of things? Or are they that ways in different ways?

    I would say that LSIs, LSEs, and EIEs are generally more neurotic in some cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eiemo View Post
    How so? Are they that in the sense that they are people who want to get a lot of things done in one day and be in charge of things? Or are they that ways in different ways?
    LSIs? Or LSEs? If LSIs, I mean they get prickly and grumpy about things. I’ve not known any to explode in furious anger as SLEs might or bear grudges for long; they just tend to get annoyed easily and prefer to keep their distance from most people. ESIs are somewhat similar in temperament but have Fi to soften them. Kind of the stereotype of a cranky old man, which the word “crotchety” brings to my mind.

    I don’t think I expressed this well in my earlier post, but “crotchety” doesn’t seem to me to mean the same or even a very similar thing as “angry,” so the OP’s choice of words seemed strange to me. Since it’s not a common word I thought it was possible he meant something different by it than what I take it to mean — “irritable” is closer in meaning IMO.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 06-13-2021 at 08:28 PM.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    I associate crotchetiness with Ji types

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    When homosexuality used to be illegal, it was probably some hot-headed LSE authority figures arresting gay men to 'cleanse the world of sin' to appeal to an EII God.

    I agree it sounds more LSE-ish really maybe, but a SLE being angry is gonna seem different than a SEE being angry for example cuz one has creative 3D Fi and the other has 1D polr Fi so SLE will probably not know how to be as manipulative with their anger usually, especially if they are young or inexperienced.

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