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Thread: Those sneaky Semi-Duals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    When did this turn into a thread about ILE/SLEs being Peter Pan?
    I guess your duals just don't trust you =P

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    Quote Originally Posted by skosh View Post
    ..... If a dual pair is on good terms, but is confronted with a meddling semi-dual, how anxious should the one dual partner be? .........
    All other considerations equal, dual partnerships tend to lose out to semi-dual ones, especially early on in the relationships.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    I guess your duals just don't trust you =P
    Apparently that's why I'm a stray cat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    All other considerations equal, dual partnerships tend to lose out to semi-dual ones, especially early on in the relationships.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Source?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    All other considerations equal, dual partnerships tend to lose out to semi-dual ones, especially early on in the relationships.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Just like you can pass by your dual as someone uninteresting or a 'shadow', you could easily pass up on your semi-dual and not give it a second thought. That especially applies if you're in a committed relationship with your dual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    .....Source?
    Simply because they seem a little more familiar than do duals. Duals, being on opposite sides of the coin, often come across as too foreign to be tolerated; they do grow on you but bridging that gap usually takes far more time than it does with semi-duals.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    The cause of most ITR still-births or failures is personal baggage originating from environmental conditioning, traumatic events and/or upbringing. Type differences rarely cause failures even though they create divergent goals, approaches, methods and measures of success. All type combinations can peacefully coexist given the right set of circumstances.
    What about the people with conflictor parents?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rivka View Post
    What about the people with conflictor parents?
    They aren't the worst and I've seen them last. I guess mature partners agree to disagree and help each other when they can. If there's war between them, I'd first look for other causes; I can see type exacerbating a problem but not being the root cause.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    I’ve never met a male ILE my age who had his shit together. I’m sure they exist, it’s just that I’ve never met one. I love ILEs and think they’re great and everything, but I generally prefer the rationality of LIIs and think they’re better suited for family life.
    I was half shooting shit with you

    Truth is, the duals I've met get idealistic. I'm no babysitter, especially not for an insular Ni-dom. IEI are cool but drive me to drink a lot. Cause of that, I have fun with SEIs. Was in the middle of a beer. Figured I shouldn't be a hypocrite. Not saying you were, obviously

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    IEI are cool but drive me to drink a lot.
    How is that?
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    How is that?
    IEI are like driving a gnarly '69 Dodge Charger. Runs decent, gorgeous. but smells like marijuana

    My theory is if an IEI had shit guidance growing up, their coping skills will be absolute shit They'll seek advice, fuck up then go to the same type of motherfucker for advice. They fuck up & still don't understand why their life is garbage. So yeah. I keep Jack Daniels in business

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    IEI are like driving a gnarly '69 Dodge Charger. Runs decent, gorgeous. but smells like marijuana

    My theory is if an IEI had shit guidance growing up, their coing skills will be absolute shit They'll seek advice, fuck up then go to the same type of motherfucker for advice. They fuck up & still don't understand why their life is garbage. So yeah. I keep Jack Daniels in business
    Have you interacted with so many? Or were you in a relationship with one?

    But yeah, I understand what you mean. Their compatibility with SLEs actually surprises me sometimes when I think about it, given how most SLEs don't seem to have much patience for people they think are stupid, and IEI are not...really inclined to make the best of decisions in my experience. It seems like IEIs would have issues with SLEs as well. Objectively I guess all dual pairs are quite different, but that one just seems weird for me to think about for some reason.

    What tends to confuse me about IEIs is the lack of T, I think. They appear to have these deep thoughts, sense some underlying meaning to things, and give an impression of intelligence, but when you ask them to explain their thoughts, your impression of all this evaporates into the wind. Weirdly, EIEs tend to give me more of an impression of T-ness and a more..."structured" thought process, I guess, when they talk.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    IEI are like driving a gnarly '69 Dodge Charger. Runs decent, gorgeous. but smells like marijuana
    I like your car analogy.

    I had a '66 Jaguar E-type that was like a beautiful but capricious woman. When it worked, it was sex on wheels, but it was incredibly unreliable. I could take it out easily enough, but I'd never know who'd be taking it home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Have you interacted with so many? Or were you in a relationship with one?

    But yeah, I understand what you mean. Their compatibility with SLEs actually surprises me sometimes when I think about it, given how most SLEs don't seem to have much patience for people they think are stupid, and IEI are not...really inclined to make the best of decisions in my experience. It seems like IEIs would have issues with SLEs as well. Objectively I guess all dual pairs are quite different, but that one just seems weird for me to think about for some reason.

    What tends to confuse me about IEIs is the lack of T, I think. They appear to have these deep thoughts, sense some underlying meaning to things, and give an impression of intelligence, but when you ask them to explain their thoughts, your impression of all this evaporates into the wind. Weirdly, EIEs tend to give me more of an impression of T-ness and a more..."structured" thought process, I guess, when they talk.
    Nah. Through college & diff jobs, I've dated IEIs. Some were.college grads, some were "altruistic" behavioral analysts, others were sheltered neophytes. I mean, the thing about IEI is that they can be very much Jekyll & Hyde. A good archetype for IEI is Harley Quinn. IEI, to me are like Harleen Quinzel with a Harley Quinn alter ego. They like to make an impact in their version of reality but such an impact ain't always a rational one

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Have you interacted with so many? Or were you in a relationship with one?

    But yeah, I understand what you mean. Their compatibility with SLEs actually surprises me sometimes when I think about it, given how most SLEs don't seem to have much patience for people they think are stupid, and IEI are not...really inclined to make the best of decisions in my experience. It seems like IEIs would have issues with SLEs as well. Objectively I guess all dual pairs are quite different, but that one just seems weird for me to think about for some reason.

    What tends to confuse me about IEIs is the lack of T, I think. They appear to have these deep thoughts, sense some underlying meaning to things, and give an impression of intelligence, but when you ask them to explain their thoughts, your impression of all this evaporates into the wind. Weirdly, EIEs tend to give me more of an impression of T-ness and a more..."structured" thought process, I guess, when they talk.
    Surely it depends on the IEI. I’ve only met a few IEIs but two stand out to me as very well-adjusted and well-balanced people. They are both high school teachers and settled down with their partners at a young age (mid twenties). I’m pretty sure they’d be quite confident explaining their opinions at a dinner party or at a social gathering with their friends or colleagues. I think they both keep up with current affairs. They do seem
    a bit EIE-ish in a way.

    And the ones who aren’t so well-adjusted? I’m not. But in the hard times I have found solace in building a sense of identity of being a good person, my values (which yes are hard to explain) kept me going, and they’ll be what keeps me going and coping with the challenges that are ahead.

    I could say the same about ESI. That some of them talk nonsense and can be hysterical in their reasoning processes..but then there are some I could have a really interesting discussion with (maybe a short but very interesting discussion) and even one, a uni friend, who I got on with well, whose thought processes didn’t seem entirely different to my own. (I just led the discussions).

    edit: nonsense is a harsh word and actually it’s probably more that I feel unable to follow their line of thought.

    Also what I do have to offer an SLE or a potential partner? I don’t judge them for their inconsistent values they’re bound to have, because I know people don’t care about the purity of their values as much as I do lol. I feel blessed to be able to be able to form such values, and I don’t expect my partner to do the same. And they will appreciate that. Of course, I get mad at people sometimes for their lack of strong values but deep down I’m always trying to understand these people or appreciate them.
    Last edited by Bethany; 06-13-2021 at 12:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skosh View Post
    I've noticed semi-duals can easily get between a dual pair. They can seem rather oblivious, unaware of what they're getting into, but self-assured enough to cause trouble. One may find themselves completely disoriented in a world where your dual appears to choose someone else over you. There's really no way to prepare for it. You can definitely handle it, but you can't really predict it. I guess my question is should a dual partner on reasonably good terms with the other fear those sneaky semi-duals? Can semi-duals really be better than your dual?
    This basically shouldn't happen, and probably reflects people being typed wrong. Semi-duality is fairly limited beyond surface interactions, falls dead in the water once the Mobilizing's urges come to fore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckrz View Post
    This basically shouldn't happen, and probably reflects people being typed wrong. Semi-duality is fairly limited beyond surface interactions, falls dead in the water once the Mobilizing's urges come to fore.
    This has been my experience, and it’s exacerbated by creative subtypes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    I’ve never met a male ILE my age who had his shit together. I’m sure they exist, it’s just that I’ve never met one. I love ILEs and think they’re great and everything, but I generally prefer the rationality of LIIs and think they’re better suited for family life.
    EPs just want to be free. Families need fun and spontaneity, and not just 'shit-togetherness'. I think most ILE men are perfectly capable of putting their childrens' needs before theirs and becoming more structured when needed, they take more time to mature about sensing stuff, granted. Being father is something you grow into anyway; you figure it out on the way.

    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

    I've encountered several Si doms that snobbed me and my ILE friends as 'immature' because we do what we want and live life leisurely; there isn't an emergency, there's nothing to prove, no need to pretend to be somebody you're not. What's funny though is how it's always the same Si doms that come whining and fretting "I don't know what to do with my life" "It's my third divorce" "I don't know how to deal with change" "I'm worried about what comes next" "I should have thought it through before choosing those studies" "I thought this life would suit me but it's not fulfilling"...

    Last semester I spent a lot of time listening to my SEI thesis supervisor about what he didn't like about his job and I encouraged him to change if that's what he wanted. In the end, he quit and now he owns a woodworking workshop. I got a new supervisor, he's a LIE.... less fun
    Life is soup. I'm a fork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skosh View Post
    If a dual pair is on good terms, but is confronted with a meddling semi-dual, how anxious should the one dual partner be? I just find it difficult to choose a semi-dual over a perfectly suitable dual partner.
    What do you mean by being on good terms? They know each other and they are friends? Do they have romantic relationship? Did they get attracted from each other before semidual joined the picture?

    I have seen over and over again rational types choosing their semi-dual over their dual. Semidual relationships as other relationships cannot be replaced by duality.

    There are lots of factors that affects attraction. Attraction isn't necessarily related to companionship hence people don't choose the person who is perfectly compatible with them. When attraction is too high, it even blinds people's reasoning and gut feeling. I have met with EIEs that are more compatible with me and some who are not. I was highly attracted to those who are not that compatible. Unfortunately some spesific things that I find annoying draw me into them more because those spesific things actually lead to increase attraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by skosh View Post
    Semi-duals are compelling because they meet your basic needs while sharing those commonalities. They can be very hard to resist. What's sneaky is their entering a space of duality they have no business entering. They masquerade as meeting those basic needs to give you the familiarity your dual provides you. This may even become an obsession between semi-duals, which perhaps explains why they often view each other as arrogant and/or condescending.
    I don't think each partner see their semidual as arrogant and/or condescending. For examples, IEEs generally don't see SEIs that way, however, rational types may feel as you described.

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    I personally don't think any one type has their s**t completely together. We all have PoLR and DS functions, we all have problems.

    Externally maybe having money and a stable job and a stable environment may look more together than someone who wants to switch up their life and move around a lot and explore and not care so much about status or money, but the first person might be highly depressed and hate their life and the second person might be having fun and having a more positive outlook.

    Of course someone who abuses drugs or frivolously spends money or decides that they don't want to grow as a person doesn't really have their stuff together.

    Maturity (the stereotypical maturity) is highly overrated by the populace as they want you to act practical and efficient even when you aren't very practical or efficient at working. Maturity in the practical sense should be thrown out the window as everyone has their own path to real maturity, it's a lifelong process of figuring out who you are and what you want and avoiding obviously bad decisions and toxic people and being able to be independent of others.

    ILEs are really just seeking the best logical options out there to maximize the enjoyment they will get out of life. They don't care about practicality or efficiency because as long as they do something they love to do and have enough money to feel comfortable they don't really give two poops what others say. They will maximize the enjoyment their kids can get out of life, they won't force them to do something they hate just for some societal or "practical and efficient" reason.

    Personally @Poptart I don't think activity is a bad relation, but I will say that I believe a environment where both partners love and trust each other, don't do anything terribly, unfathomably stupid, and are able to have fun together and communicate well is better than a stable environment.

    There are ILEs who really want to have kids and who actually care how their kids are raised. For example: "We shouldn't let our kids touch electronics because then they won't study effectively. We should feed our kids only the healthiest foods so they grow big and strong. We shouldn't pressure them into doing something that they don't want to do, we should observe them and then give them the opportunities to do whatever they want to do in life. I'm totally ready once I get a job to have kids, I will make enough money for it. I can help them learn Math and Science and you can help them with English and History."

    Maybe consider searching around a little more for an ILE who wants kids?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    Maturity (the stereotypical maturity) is highly overrated by the populace as they want you to act practical and efficient even when you aren't very practical or efficient at working. Maturity in the practical sense should be thrown out the window as everyone has their own path to real maturity, it's a lifelong process of figuring out who you are and what you want and avoiding obviously bad decisions and toxic people and being able to be independent of others.

    ...

    Personally @Poptart I don't think activity is a bad relation, but I will say that I believe a environment where both partners love and trust each other, don't do anything terribly, unfathomably stupid, and are able to have fun together and communicate well is better than a stable environment.
    I agree completely. Life would be unbearable if you had to take it completely seriously. Maturity doesn’t consist in treating life seriously, but as you said, trying to minimize doing anything completely stupid, and in knowing what one wants (and acting accordingly). I think it’s good for people to come to their own understandings with the world, and also for people to generally respect the understandings of others, since this has more to do with personal inclination than in objective knowledge. If ILEs tend to take a more relaxed attitude toward life, I don’t see this as necessarily a problem or a sign of immaturity.

    Obviously there are some ILEs who are immature, irresponsible, or treat people badly, but @Poptart , if that’s your only impression of the type, I wonder if you’re being a little hasty in your judgement.

    I’ve known other SEIs, and more rarely SLIs, to take a dim view of Ne. I’ve not known any other type to be so negative about their suggestive function, so this has confused me. My best guess, from what I’ve picked up, is that they feel afraid of a one-sided relationship, where they’ll have to take care of the Ne type like an actual child to prevent them from constantly making a mess. If I were to go further in guessing I’d guess that they feel so afraid of this dynamic because exposure to Ne triggers “caretaking” tendencies in them, and because high Ne tends to seem unusual or “weird” (maybe it actually is relatively rare; who knows), the SXI usually doesn’t have an idea of what mature Ne people are like, or how they can be mature when they act so “weird.” So with this image that Ne people are terminally infantile, their own “caretaking” tendencies alarm them, especially if Ne types play up their Ne in response to the SXI’s Si. If any SEIs or SLIs could weigh in on this I’d be interested.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I’ve known other SEIs, and more rarely SLIs, to take a dim view of Ne. I’ve not known any other type to be so negative about their suggestive function, so this has confused me. My best guess, from what I’ve picked up, is that they feel afraid of a one-sided relationship, where they’ll have to take care of the Ne type like an actual child to prevent them from constantly making a mess. If I were to go further in guessing I’d guess that they feel so afraid of this dynamic because exposure to Ne triggers “caretaking” tendencies in them, and because high Ne tends to seem unusual or “weird” (maybe it actually is relatively rare; who knows), the SXI usually doesn’t have an idea of what mature Ne people are like, or how they can be mature when they act so “weird.” So with this image that Ne people are terminally infantile, their own “caretaking” tendencies alarm them, especially if Ne types play up their Ne in response to the SXI’s Si. If any SEIs or SLIs could weigh in on this I’d be interested.
    ehhhhh this may be unpopular but this is my perspective and experience.

    High Ne users can be unpredictable to the point it makes me question a serious relationship with them at times. It doesn't bug me when it's their own stuff in life but, I find it an issue when it involves me. I feel like I can't trust their word at times because I don't know if they are going to change their mind of if they are seriously going to follow through. Is it just air or is it a promise? When I assume either, they get upset. When I have no expectations or it doesn't involve me, it's fine. If it affects me, I need to know I have someone I can count on and not have to worry about the clouds.

    Care-taking doesn't bug me in general and in relaxed atmospheres. Care taking in every aspect of a romantic relationship, yeah, I am not going to deal with that. Does it come out with high Ne users? Yes, more so then others. Still, I don't want a child as a partner where I am always expected to clean up their messes. That's not a partner to me. I don't like being serious. I am not above acting like a little kid and I love to be free to just dance on the street and be carefree. I try to keep my freedom high and my responsibilities low but, I do take my responsibilities seriously. I consider a close relationship as one of them. I just don't want a partner that never gets serious. It is not that high Ne users can't take anything seriously. I just find that I find it hard to get them to takes things seriously and to rely on them consistently without them getting annoyed about it and it not affecting me negatively. I want a partner that I can care about and be childish with sometimes. I will not mommy my partner. They have their freedom. I have my freedom too and with that I may choose to not want a lot of unpredictability and care-taking in a partner.

    This may not be all Ne users mind you. This is purely my perspective and take on it with having been around some high Ne users.
    I have this perspective with high Se users as well, just less so in comparison.
    Last edited by MissDucki; 06-14-2021 at 01:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    ehhhhh this may be unpopular but this is my perspective and experience.

    High Ne users can be unpredictable to the point it makes me question a serious relationship with them at times. It doesn't bug me when it's their own stuff in life but, I find it an issue when it involves me. I feel like I can't trust their word at times because I don't know if they are going to change their mind of if they are seriously going to follow through. Is it just air or is it a promise? When I assume either, they get upset. When I have no expectations or it doesn't involve me, it's fine. If it affects me, I need to know I have someone I can count on and not have to worry about the clouds.

    Care-taking doesn't bug me in general and in relaxed atmospheres. Care taking in every aspect of a romantic relationship, yeah, I am not going to deal with that. Does it come out with high Ne users? Yes, more so then others. Still, I don't want a child as a partner where I am always expected to clean up their messes. That's not a partner to me. I don't like being serious. I am not above acting like a little kid and I love to be free to just dance on the street and be carefree. I try to keep my freedom high and my responsibilities low but, I do take my responsibilities seriously. I consider a close relationship as one of them. I just don't want a partner that never gets serious. It is not that high Ne users can't take anything seriously. I just find that I find it hard to get them to takes things seriously and to rely on them consistently without them getting annoyed about it and it not affecting me negatively. I want a partner that I can care about and be childish with sometimes. I will not mommy my partner. They have their freedom. I have my freedom too and with that I may choose to not want a lot of unpredictability and care-taking in a partner.

    This may not be all Ne users mind you. This is purely my perspective and take on it with having been around some high Ne users.
    I have this perspective with high Se users as well, just less so in comparison.
    Well, you have numerous factoring at stake here.

    You are an enneagram 6, so your need for stability and reassurance of consistency is far more pronounced than typical Si base. You also have to factor in health level. Then the nene type as well. Take an ILE or IEE enneagram type 7, versus an IEE enne4. They are not to conflate.

    Your own childhood and conditioning can be contributing.

    I think duality can be overrated anyhow, but you are not looking at all aspect, just one facet.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


  23. #63
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    There are some IEE-Fi and ILE-Ti who can be far more grounded, and they are contact type, I believe. IEE is going to be more grounded because of the Te, in spite of ILE having a logical creative.

    Account for psychopathology; ADHD, ADD, etc. Level of health and restraint, maturity. It is not uniform. I am not an Ne base (Pe), and I am immature for my age, but it is stemming from trauma and psychopathology.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Karanime View Post
    Well, you have numerous factoring at stake here.

    You are an enneagram 6, so your need for stability and reassurance of consistency is far more pronounced than typical Si base. You also have to factor in health level. Then the nene type as well. Take an ILE or IEE enneagram type 7, versus an IEE enne4. They are not to conflate.

    Your own childhood and conditioning can be contributing.

    I think duality can be overrated anyhow, but you are not looking at all aspect, just one facet.

    Fair, I will give you that. Stability is extremely important to me and I am a Sp dom. I couldn't be with an ILE 7 or an IEE 4 personally. I may be commenting on one aspect of the Ne dom but that aspect is what makes me the most wary. If I was around a healthy ILE SP that can give me stability, I will change my tune. For now, that has been my experience.

    Edit: Just want to say, not that all can't or won't be predictable or reliable, I am sure there is. There are a lot of positive aspects to Ne doms I do like, just that one con does impact me the most.

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    @MissDucki

    Wrt Ne being “unpredictable,” I think Ne people, especially Ne bases, prefer to keep an attitude of “experimentation” and like to keep their options open. I think they can generally be counted on for general ideas, but they don’t like being held to specifics. I think one could say “I’ll take care of the kids tomorrow — we’ll go to the park,” but the next day take them out to eat fried chicken instead. If their partner were to get angry at them for this, the Ne person would probably feel upset in turn, thinking something like “I said I’d take care of the children! That’s the important part; the children are fed and taken care of and happy -- what’s the big deal?”

    Another problem which maybe you’ve experienced is that ILE and to a lesser extent some LIIs’ sense of humor mostly consists in people being taken off guard. To see a partner constantly confused is fun. It sounds bad, and I guess it is, or can be at least, but I don’t think most mean this in a mean-spirited way, if it makes a difference. I also don’t think they’d typically do this kind of thing with anything serious, like saying “I love you,” then “lol jk.” More there’s a tendency to tell unbelievable and stories and seeing how absurd they can make them before someone starts to question them. Or sometimes give serious-sounding absurd answers to questions that might be taken seriously for a few seconds.

    The reason they’re often especially inclined to be this way with partners is I think because they have certain difficulties expressing themselves, and humor is a way to express a desire for closeness without actually saying that. They find humor in that kind of absurdity, and since SEIs (ESEs seem not to mind it) are so reactive and Fe-y, the idea is that they’ll laugh too. Even if the SEI has expressed discomfort with it before. And SEIs I think often mind this so much because they tend to feel insecure about a lot, including their intelligence, and feel that the ILE or LII is just taking advantage of them and treats them like an idiot. I’ve seen this happen a few times, including in my own relationship with an SEI.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 06-14-2021 at 02:40 AM.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    @MissDucki

    Wrt Ne being “unpredictable,” I think Ne people, especially Ne bases, prefer to keep an attitude of “experimentation” and like to keep their options open. I think they can generally be counted on for general ideas, but they don’t like being held to specifics. I think one could say “I’ll take care of the kids tomorrow — we’ll go to the park,” but the next day take them out to eat fried chicken instead. If their partner were to get angry at them for this, the Ne person would probably feel upset in turn, thinking something like “I said I’d take care of the children! That’s the important part; the children are fed and taken care of and happy -- what’s the big deal?”

    Another problem which maybe you’ve experienced is that ILE and to a lesser extent some LIIs’ sense of humor mostly consists in people being taken off guard. To see a partner constantly confused is fun. It sounds bad, and I guess it is, or can be at least, but I don’t think most mean this in a mean-spirited way, if it makes a difference. I also don’t think they’d typically do this kind of thing with anything serious, like saying “I love you,” then “lol jk.” More there’s a tendency to tell unbelievable and stories and seeing how absurd they can make them before someone starts to question them. Or sometimes give serious-sounding absurd answers to questions that might be taken seriously for a few seconds.

    The reason they’re often especially inclined to be this way with partners is I think because they have certain difficulties expressing themselves, and humor is a way to express a desire for closeness without actually saying that. They find humor in that kind of absurdity, and since SEIs (ESEs seem not to mind it) are so reactive and Fe-y, the idea is that they’ll laugh too. Even if the SEI has expressed discomfort with it before. And SEIs I think often mind this so much because they tend to feel insecure about a lot, including their intelligence, and feel that the ILE or LII is just taking advantage of them and treats them like an idiot. I’ve seen this happen a few times, including in my own relationship with an SEI.

    I do understand, but at the same time I find it frustrating like probably may ILE's feel with me at some point. There will always be pro's and con's to each dominate function and it can be hard for each dual seeker.

    ILE are big picture experimenters and don't always care about the details. This is great for a vision but it can suck in real life as they forget the details and the practicality to get to that vision. Missing those details can greatly screw with the vision. Not all the time but, it can. With your example, “I’ll take care of the kids tomorrow — we’ll go to the park,” but the next day take them out to eat fried chicken instead. If their partner were to get angry at them for this, the Ne person would probably feel upset in turn, thinking something like “I said I’d take care of the children! That’s the important part; what’s the big deal?”.
    It bugs me greatly that one 'vision' was promised but was not followed through. I would rather not know the plan and make it on the go when the needs shown up rather then be given this vision, realistically plan, then it being thrown away. It takes time for me to build around it so I don't appreciate it. I would rather be told "I am taking the kids out" then "I am taking the kids out to the park". I don't have to plan or worry about the vision and the responsibility is being taken care of.

    With the being taken off guard, I get it. I like being teased in all good fun. I like to poke fun too in good jest. I am also extremely reactionary too so I have learned to roll with the punches and laugh at it. I like it when it is in good fun, but there is a line when I starts getting too personal and I do start to question it. There are people that hide behind humor like that. If a line gets crossed by accident, it gets crossed. That doesn't bug me. It's afterward when I express it and they push the issue is when I get really upset. Not only are my feelings being trampled on but my intelligence as well which does not feel good. I don't think ILE or LII would appreciate me shaming them for their expressions or their desire for closeness after they expressed they were uncomfortable to begin with because that is how I view the equivalent.

    This may not be every ILE and LII. These are my experiences. In small doses, these don't bug me. More so the continuation of such actions after I communicated that it does upset me. My biggest issue is continuous line crossing which is not fair. In that instance, I do feel taken advantage of and I would take that as my cue to leave. People are not perfect. Duality isn't perfect. I may understand the thought process and that it may be meant to not hurt, but that doesn't mean it still doesn't hurt. I think it's fair to say a person can only take certain things so much and may not want to put up with it, that's all.

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Another problem which maybe you’ve experienced is that ILE and to a lesser extent some LIIs’ sense of humor mostly consists in people being taken off guard. To see a partner constantly confused is fun. It sounds bad, and I guess it is, or can be at least, but I don’t think most mean this in a mean-spirited way, if it makes a difference.
    Lol this is so true. I enjoy this type of humor. Sometimes I say stupid shit just to watch how people respond. Idk I’m probably an asshole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    ehhhhh this may be unpopular but this is my perspective and experience.

    High Ne users can be unpredictable to the point it makes me question a serious relationship with them at times. It doesn't bug me when it's their own stuff in life but, I find it an issue when it involves me. I feel like I can't trust their word at times because I don't know if they are going to change their mind of if they are seriously going to follow through. Is it just air or is it a promise? When I assume either, they get upset. When I have no expectations or it doesn't involve me, it's fine. If it affects me, I need to know I have someone I can count on and not have to worry about the clouds.
    In the initial stages of relationship, I prefer if things can be in an ambiguous state. Sometimes serious types (deltas also) state what they are looking for etc, to me that kills all the magic. What bothers me about my semiduals EIEs that they make sure that it is going on one direction and I understand that correctly, Ni-doms are more adaptable in this regard. So although they don't explicitly state it, they make sure that I know we are not friends, we like each other and this is a date and we are aiming for having a serious relationship. It make sense to make your intentions clear and there is no need to pretend if both people are into each other, these things also can be adorable. However, those kind of expectations creates a pressure, they are unrealistic considering that they want to be decisive about it without getting to know each other. Maybe I won't want to be with them, maybe they won't want to be with me. Hence, although the course of events can be unknown and unpredictable, having an ambiguous state keep things more light, chill and open in my perspective.

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    In the initial stages of relationship, I prefer if things can be in an ambiguous state. Sometimes serious types (deltas also) state what they are looking for etc, to me that kills all the magic. What bothers me about my semiduals EIEs that they make sure that it is going on one direction and I understand that correctly, Ni-doms are more adaptable in this regard. So although they don't explicitly state it, they make sure that I know we are not friends, we like each other and this is a date and we are aiming for having a serious relationship. It make sense to make your intentions clear and there is no need to pretend if both people are into each other, these things also can be adorable. However, those kind of expectations creates a pressure, they are unrealistic considering that they want to be decisive about it without getting to know each other. Maybe I won't want to be with them, maybe they won't want to be with me. Hence, although the course of events can be unknown and unpredictable, having an ambiguous state keep things more light, chill and open in my perspective.
    Hmmmmm Maybe I should start questioning again if I am a Ni-dom

    I understand that. I really don't like guys who pursue me hard and try and direct it into a relationship right away. It scares me too. My closest friendships blossomed the best when there were no expectations.

    I see why you guys prefer it and by no means do I want to stifle that. The last thing I want to do is force a future with someone or force a choice. Ne doms and Ne creatives are much more comfortable navigating the unknown and unpredictable and that is your guys strength. I wish I was better at it and I know how uncomfortable it can be for me at times to navigate it as it is a weakness for me. Due to this, I don't like to expect a future with anyone as you don't know and I find in painful to be 'promised'. I just think that Ne doms and Ne creatives already assume that people already understand that things can change and what they're saying isn't fact. They already know the facts from the clouds when that is not always the case. I don't assume until it is said so. I had a conversation with a Ne Dom as he is somebody who always assumes "yes" where I always assume "no" when it comes to life and ambiguity. If he always assumed yes with me, there would always be issues.

    That's not to say that I don't love Ne doms natural talents. While Ne needs Si and vice versa, they are still polar opposites. Being too careful is not always great and it has limited me. I do need change and I always appreciate Ne doms for that. I think Ne doms appreciate my stability and realistic aspect at times. Just, I think I can also still state how it can negatively impact me at times (an others) from the other side of Ne. The same can be said of Si doms and how it can stifle the natural aspect of Ne and that can negatively impact others. The best is when both can meet in the middle where both natural strengths and weakness are covered. As of yet, I just haven't been able to meet one in the middle.

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    Hearing IEI speak is awesome. Hearing them worry is beastly cuz my Se Spidey sense gets wild & its fun as fuck.

    That said, IEI can be really stupid sometimes. Investing in stupidity ain't with the stress.

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