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Thread: Your mirage meets their dual/activity. Your honest take

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    Default Your mirage meets their dual/activity. Your honest take

    Been kinda seeing this mirage chick. Kinda but not official. She wants more, I prefer to chill honestly. She's had her kid and is done there. But she's Ne-seeking & figure she'd be content with an Ne-ego. Thing is her ex was LII & got tired of, basically, listening to him talk. We're both animal people which is why I dig the chick.

    Be crazy to hook up with a chick only for her to prefer an Ne-ego. Not that I'd be angry, just might not be logical for me to date her

    Folk will probably be like "Screw that, socionics doesn't define relationships". Figured I'd put the question just to hear different takes on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Been kinda seeing this mirage chick. Kinda but not official. She wants more, I prefer to chill honestly. She's had her kid and is done there. But she's Ne-seeking & figure she'd be content with an Ne-ego. Thing is her ex was LII & got tired of, basically, listening to him talk. We're both animal people which is why I dig the chick.

    Be crazy to hook up with a chick only for her to prefer an Ne-ego. Not that I'd be angry, just might not be logical for me to date her

    Folk will probably be like "Screw that, socionics doesn't define relationships". Figured I'd put the question just to hear different takes on this.
    Your Mirage relationship is not one with compatible Erotic Attitudes. That one would be your Semi-Dual.

    But maybe you're fine with a fling with a Caregiver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Been kinda seeing this mirage chick. Kinda but not official. She wants more, I prefer to chill honestly. She's had her kid and is done there. But she's Ne-seeking & figure she'd be content with an Ne-ego. Thing is her ex was LII & got tired of, basically, listening to him talk. We're both animal people which is why I dig the chick.

    Be crazy to hook up with a chick only for her to prefer an Ne-ego. Not that I'd be angry, just might not be logical for me to date her

    Folk will probably be like "Screw that, socionics doesn't define relationships". Figured I'd put the question just to hear different takes on this.
    Hmm. Are you saying there is an Ne-ego your SEI might have a wandering eye for? Or are you asking hypothetically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Your Mirage relationship is not one with compatible Erotic Attitudes. That one would be your Semi-Dual.

    But maybe you're fine with a fling with a Caregiver.
    Good points, man

    Def true. Appreciate your two cents for sure. Not in the mood to date Ni-ego right now. I'm cool with an SEI. They're grounded. The victims I've met are fantasy retards. (I say that respectfully since I used to work with those with special needs)

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    From a socionics perspective it might not be the best idea. Not because your mirage will seek something else but because you might get depleted of your dual seeking function yourself. Unless you're really in touch with it, you might even end up not really knowing what is missing. Unless you get your DS from somewhere else to fill the gap.

    From a personal perspective... who cares. Makes no sense to define your actions with a logical framework which might not even fit with reality. Maybe there's no one else around, and it makes sense for you two to date... if you like this person well enough, and even if it's just a short-lived fling. On the other hand, you possibly might miss out on a dual who could be great for you because you're occupied with someone else, but even that's just a random guess which might not even pan out in reality. It's just a matter of how much this relationship is worth to you right now, I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    Hmm. Are you saying there is an Ne-ego your SEI might have a wandering eye for? Or are you asking hypothetically?

    Nah. When she & I chat, she clearly seeks an Ne-ego. Being SLE my Ne role is ok. Not sure how similar I am to ILE-Ti, her dual.

    Tbh, an LII-Ne has shown interest in her for 4 years but she's uninterested...clearly clings to me when he's around. I can actually provide my own Ni. Perhaps she can provide her own Ne, who knows.

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    @Stray Cat Do you see any problems right now when you are interacting with SEI or do you want to know if there could be problems in the future due to Ne/Ni seeking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    @Stray Cat Do you see any problems right now when you are interacting with SEI or do you want to know if there could be problems in the future due to Ne/Ni seeking?
    My logical framework says, "SEI & SLE won't work cause of the erotic attitude clash".... and I use logic to make most choices. I care for her but don't want to invest then feel butt hurt later cause she's more compatible with some other bloke.

    We have perfectly matching subtypes & dig going on "extreme" adventures together. Her LII ex was a homebody & an stickler for Si (danger avoidance)

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    For what it’s worth, I went over to an SLE buddy’s house to buy a horizontal saw and the woman who was hanging around him seemed like an SEI to me. I thought she admired his physical strength and assertiveness, and he seemed cool with her. Sort of like he was ok with showing her off to the world. He seemed to be saying, “I’m the important one in this relationship, but just LOOK at this special lady.”

    They made me consider the many IEI-ILE couples I’ve seen. Clearly, there is some appeal between these two pairs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Nah. When she & I chat, she clearly seeks an Ne-ego. Being SLE my Ne role is ok. Not sure how similar I am to ILE-Ti, her dual.

    Tbh, an LII-Ne has shown interest in her for 4 years but she's uninterested...clearly clings to me when he's around. I can actually provide my own Ni. Perhaps she can provide her own Ne, who knows.
    The only difference I have seen between SLE-Ti and ILE-Ti is merely that ILE-Ti is goofier. Both have a wild, rebellious streak, but SLE-Ti is a bit more serious somehow. In light of how similar they are, I’d say don’t worry about it. You’ve got some of the best compatibility out there, and if you’re both chilling and seem to be into it, that’s not something you’re going to find everywhere. The way she acts when other dudes are after her indicates she’s already decided you’ve got what she’s looking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Nah. When she & I chat, she clearly seeks an Ne-ego. Being SLE my Ne role is ok. .
    Do you think after a few years it'll start grating on you, possibly causing resentment?

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    cause i've been close with an ILE for 5 years and my only real complaint is not so much the lack of Se but rather the Si-seeking. i'm not bad at my role and don't mind engaging in it, but the thing is that the dual-seeking function is insatiable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Do you think after a few years it'll start grating on you, possibly causing resentment?

    I really, really liked most of my LSI Mirage GFs, but they had Fi only as a role function. One of the bitterest days I remember with the last one was when she was displaying true Fi and I knew it was only going to last ten minutes.

    Really, it made me more certain than ever that I wanted a true Dual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    For what it’s worth, I went over to an SLE buddy’s house to buy a horizontal saw and the woman who was hanging around him seemed like an SEI to me. I thought she admired his physical strength and assertiveness, and he seemed cool with her. Sort of like he was ok with showing her off to the world. He seemed to be saying, “I’m the important one in this relationship, but just LOOK at this special lady.”

    They made me consider the many IEI-ILE couples I’ve seen. Clearly, there is some appeal between these two pairs.
    Yeah, personal encounters welcome

    There's something to be said about a mirage convo and, from what I've read, mirage relations tend to have elite chats. I actually personally oppose the co-habitating thing. She & I both do live by ourselves, which is cool cause co-habitating would suck between an Se & Si ego.

    Besides it ain't the 50s when women literally needed men to make $

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Do you think after a few years it'll start grating on you, possibly causing resentment?
    This is something I was thinking...the most irritating aspect of Mirage relations for me isn’t not getting my dual-seeking needs met, but rather the persistent expectation of my role to be on at all times. Once that tension escalates, Stray Cat may well be happy to hand his SEI off to an alpha NT for a while! But I think there is greater pressure when subtypes don’t match (I.e. SLE-Ti/SEI-Si).

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    This is something I was thinking...the most irritating aspect of Mirage relations for me isn’t not getting my dual-seeking needs met, but rather the persistent expectation of my role to be on at all times. Once that tension escalates, Stray Cat may well be happy to hand his SEI off to an alpha NT for a while! But I think there is greater pressure when subtypes don’t match (I.e. SLE-Ti/SEI-Si).
    Or when subtypes match in that both are base subtypes (ILE-Ne and IEI-Ni for me) I think.
    In Stray Cat's case, there's the least pressure but I think that just means that it'll take longer for the tension to escalate. nonetheless in both cases the end result remains the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    The only difference I have seen between SLE-Ti and ILE-Ti is merely that ILE-Ti is goofier. Both have a wild, rebellious streak, but SLE-Ti is a bit more serious somehow. In light of how similar they are, I’d say don’t worry about it. You’ve got some of the best compatibility out there, and if you’re both chilling and seem to be into it, that’s not something you’re going to find everywhere. The way she acts when other dudes are after her indicates she’s already decided you’ve got what she’s looking for.
    Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Do you think after a few years it'll start grating on you, possibly causing resentment?
    You're reading my mind

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    cause i've been close with an ILE for 5 years and my only real complaint is not so much the lack of Se but rather the Si-seeking. i'm not bad at my role and don't mind engaging in it, but the thing is that the dual-seeking function is insatiable.
    You're reading my fuckin' mind again. Cool

    She Is Ne dual seeking but my gut tells me she can self supply well. It isn't the Ne activities that annoy me, just the impulsive Ne related comments she'll make. I'm cool with Ne convos in general. It's the impulsive remarks that annoy

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    This is something I was thinking...the most irritating aspect of Mirage relations for me isn’t not getting my dual-seeking needs met, but rather the persistent expectation of my role to be on at all times. Once that tension escalates, Stray Cat may well be happy to hand his SEI off to an alpha NT for a while! But I think there is greater pressure when subtypes don’t match (I.e. SLE-Ti/SEI-Si).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Yeah, personal encounters welcome

    There's something to be said about a mirage convo and, from what I've read, mirage relations tend to have elite chats. I actually personally oppose the co-habitating thing. She & I both do live by ourselves, which is cool cause co-habitating would suck between an Se & Si ego.

    Besides it ain't the 50s when women literally needed men to make $
    I didn't co-habitate with either of my Mirage GFs. With the first one, I liked the sex but I didn't think she and I were on the same page a lot of the time. With the second, I felt the same.

    But if you aren't married and have been around the block a few times, you realize that marriage is not a requirement in many cases. You can just hang out and enjoy each other's company, and when things get a bit weird, you or they can go home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Appreciated



    You're reading my mind



    You're reading my fuckin' mind again. Cool

    She Is Ne dual seeking but my gut tells me she can self supply well. It isn't the Ne activities that annoy me, just the impulsive Ne related comments she'll make. I'm cool with Ne convos in general. It's the impulsive remarks that annoy


    So how much annoyance are you willing to tolerate for her sake/the sake of the relationship? if not a lot, then you should touch base with her on the significance of the relationship (so she doesn't get hurt- you stated she wants more while you don't) (well either way you probably should..)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I didn't co-habitate with either of my Mirage GFs. With the first one, I liked the sex but I didn't think she and I were on the same page a lot of the time. With the second, I felt the same.

    But if you aren't married and have been around the block a few times, you realize that marriage is not a requirement in many cases. You can just hang out and enjoy each other's company, and when things get a bit weird, you or they can go home.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post


    So how much annoyance are you willing to tolerate for her sake/the sake of the relationship? if not a lot, then you should touch base with her on the significance of the relationship (so she doesn't get hurt- you stated she wants more while you don't) (well either way you probably should..)
    Funny you'd say that. I do believe this can work, we'd just have to be on the same page. She doesn't know socionics. Interesting conversations to have with her, anyway.

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    It can work, but do you want it to work?
    And it's not just her who might leave you for someone more compatible, you very well could too.
    Are you simply lonely and taking the first option avalaible or do you truly have an interest in her and building something with her?

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    It can work, but do you want it to work?
    And it's not just her who might leave you for someone more compatible, you very well could too.
    Are you simply lonely and taking the first option avalaible or do you truly have an interest in her and building something with her?
    Nah. I could have bunch of different chicks. This gal is into animal rescuing & actively rehabilitates 'em, sometimes takes them into her home. I'm cool being single. She stands out cause I basically majored in zoology & study 'em for a living, particularly stray/wild. So, yeah, even if we never dated I admire her as a person. We're outdoor people & learn from one another.

    Humans aren't static though. Miscommunication happens & that can be sh*t. Cool question. That's one reason I fired up this thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Nah. I could have bunch of different chicks. This gal is into animal rescuing & actively rehabilitates 'em, sometimes takes them into her home. I'm cool being single. She stands out cause I basically majored in zoology & study 'em for a living, particularly stray/wild. So, yeah, even if we never dated I admire her as a person. We're outdoor people & learn from one another.

    Humans aren't static though. Miscommunication happens & that can be sh*t. Cool question. That's one reason I fired up this thread
    That's tough to help you here imo. We don't know her nor the settings.
    Getting close to you could mean learning about socionics, would she be interested or not? Probably because Ti. What would she think of duality? All I have is questions and questions, and all I know is you don't seem sure about her.
    Ever told her about how compatible you two are and how you both could find better? Her reaction could be enlightening... or it will creep her out and you won't have to wonder, lol.
    There's a thing I like to do when I don't know what to pick, I toss a coin. Heads you make a move, tails you bail out.
    The thing is, you don't look at what side you got, you stay open to your own internal reactions to which side you hope to get and go with this. You could have an idea that isn't either options, like talking to her about all this.
    A pendulum offers more options but is trickier to maneuver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    My logical framework says, "SEI & SLE won't work cause of the erotic attitude clash".... and I use logic to make most choices. I care for her but don't want to invest then feel butt hurt later cause she's more compatible with some other bloke.

    We have perfectly matching subtypes & dig going on "extreme" adventures together. Her LII ex was a homebody & an stickler for Si (danger avoidance)
    After learning about socionics, I noticed that I am highly attracted solely by Fe egos, more precisely beta NFs but I haven't met with any avaliable alpha SF male and even if I did, I interacted with them in a such short amount of time, I don't even know their types. Generally, Fe-egos show up and use emotional methods, persuasion, tricks and sometimes manipulation and some succeed to open the gates of my heart or make me realize that I enjoy all this stuff, then I can get attracted by other people.

    Now this could be a result of my Fe seeking or could be a result of my upbringing or individualistic features. However, I generally see F-seeking types literally seeking F, some can be more aware of it and some may not.

    I think other IEs that are not F also have their own language of love. For example, Ni-egos might be in need of decisive response and position to show their devotion and Se egos might seek devoted individuals to be decisive on. I haven't observed a lot of Si/Ne-dom couples, according to my insufficient observations and my own perception, Ne is more about being alligned with where you stand intellectually, like why are you doing or choosing something, what is your motive in it. They value matching with their partner on an intellectual level, that's why it is based on finding mutual interests etc. I am interested to hear about this more if people want to add or change something.

    I think duality is overly idealized and romanticized in socionics communities. People can approach life, relationships differently than each other regardless of their type. They can have opposite individualistic qualities, they can find different things important and headed in different direction of life. Besides, in relationships, passion generally tends to decrease after years. There are other obstacles in life that affects one's general mental and emotional state. Duality can cause a person to behave and communicate in a way without needing to adapt. Duals can give each other subconcious confirmations to devalue some unvalued IEs, which could make them unadaptable in life and resent each other because of it. Saying that non-dual couples also tend to have problems due to different reasons. Long relationships require some effort and commitment from both parties regardless of ITR. Hence I don't think that duality is a magic pill that guarantees anything, so dualized people can find their partner dissatisfying, have a wandering eye, want to try something else etc. According to my observations, some people admire their dual and some people overlook, some people like them but as a friend. I personally don't want to limit my relationship with someone due to socionics if it is working in reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    After learning about socionics, I noticed that I am highly attracted solely by Fe egos, more precisely beta NFs but I haven't met with any avaliable alpha SF male and even if I did, I interacted with them in a such short amount of time, I don't even know their types. Generally, Fe-egos show up and use emotional methods, persuasion, tricks and sometimes manipulation and some succeed to open the gates of my heart or make me realize that I enjoy all this stuff, then I can get attracted by other people.
    Not related to the rest of the post, but my experience with beta NFs is similar, fwiw. I tend to interact more and be more attracted to them than by Alpha SFs.

    Now this could be a result of my Fe seeking or could be a result of my upbringing or individualistic features. However, I generally see F-seeking types literally seeking F, some can be more aware of it and some may not.
    I've also noticed this. Some T types will also seem to seek other T people, but this seems less common than F people seeking F. I'm not sure what to make of it.

    I think other IEs that are not F also have their own language of love. For example, Ni-egos might be in need of decisive response and position to show their devotion and Se egos might seek devoted individuals to be decisive on. I haven't observed a lot of Si/Ne-dom couples, according to my insufficient observations and my own perception, Ne is more about being alligned with where you stand intellectually, like why are you doing or choosing something, what is your motive in it. They value matching with their partner on an intellectual level, that's why it is based on finding mutual interests etc. I am interested to hear about this more if people want to add or change something.
    Personally speaking I don't think I care if someone has similar interests. I just like people who are curious and open. What they're particularly interested in is less important.

    Wanting to understand people's motives I can relate to, maybe. I like to talk to people about why they make the choices they make. I'm not sure that's common to all Ne egos though; I don't think ILEs are so interested in this, for instance.

    I think duality is overly idealized and romanticized in socionics communities. People can approach life, relationships differently than each other regardless of their type. They can have opposite individualistic qualities, they can find different things important and headed in different direction of life. Besides, in relationships, passion generally tends to decrease after years. There are other obstacles in life that affects one's general mental and emotional state. Duality can cause a person to behave and communicate in a way without needing to adapt. Duals can give each other subconcious confirmations to devalue some unvalued IEs, which could make them unadaptable in life and resent each other because of it. Saying that non-dual couples also tend to have problems due to different reasons. Long relationships require some effort and commitment from both parties regardless of ITR. Hence I don't think that duality is a magic pill that guarantees anything, so dualized people can find their partner dissatisfying, have a wandering eye, want to try something else etc. According to my observations, some people admire their dual and some people overlook, some people like them but as a friend. I personally don't want to limit my relationship with someone due to socionics if it is working in reality.
    I agree.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    That's tough to help you here imo. We don't know her nor the settings.
    Getting close to you could mean learning about socionics, would she be interested or not? Probably because Ti. What would she think of duality? All I have is questions and questions, and all I know is you don't seem sure about her.
    Ever told her about how compatible you two are and how you both could find better? Her reaction could be enlightening... or it will creep her out and you won't have to wonder, lol.
    There's a thing I like to do when I don't know what to pick, I toss a coin. Heads you make a move, tails you bail out.
    The thing is, you don't look at what side you got, you stay open to your own internal reactions to which side you hope to get and go with this. You could have an idea that isn't either options, like talking to her about all this.
    A pendulum offers more options but is trickier to maneuver.
    Once heard Ni doms tend to choose one option then continually doubt that option. I'm not Ni dom but as an Se-dom, Ni is somewhat necessary for Se to function optimally.

    Interesting story. Once I got to college, my childhood best friend of 20 years wouldn't think twice about choosing a chick he'd just met over our friendship. Understandable to a point but, I mean, if it had been months since he & I kicked it he'd still choose her even though he saw her everyday

    Point is, at that moment in time, all could think about were his desires. And, fuck yeah, him finding a lady was awesome. But myself being a 23 year old dude, I figured he could have handled shit better.

    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    After learning about socionics, I noticed that I am highly attracted solely by Fe egos, more precisely beta NFs but I haven't met with any avaliable alpha SF male and even if I did, I interacted with them in a such short amount of time, I don't even know their types. Generally, Fe-egos show up and use emotional methods, persuasion, tricks and sometimes manipulation and some succeed to open the gates of my heart or make me realize that I enjoy all this stuff, then I can get attracted by other people.

    Now this could be a result of my Fe seeking or could be a result of my upbringing or individualistic features. However, I generally see F-seeking types literally seeking F, some can be more aware of it and some may not.

    I think other IEs that are not F also have their own language of love. For example, Ni-egos might be in need of decisive response and position to show their devotion and Se egos might seek devoted individuals to be decisive on. I haven't observed a lot of Si/Ne-dom couples, according to my insufficient observations and my own perception, Ne is more about being alligned with where you stand intellectually, like why are you doing or choosing something, what is your motive in it. They value matching with their partner on an intellectual level, that's why it is based on finding mutual interests etc. I am interested to hear about this more if people want to add or change something.

    I think duality is overly idealized and romanticized in socionics communities. People can approach life, relationships differently than each other regardless of their type. They can have opposite individualistic qualities, they can find different things important and headed in different direction of life. Besides, in relationships, passion generally tends to decrease after years. There are other obstacles in life that affects one's general mental and emotional state. Duality can cause a person to behave and communicate in a way without needing to adapt. Duals can give each other subconcious confirmations to devalue some unvalued IEs, which could make them unadaptable in life and resent each other because of it. Saying that non-dual couples also tend to have problems due to different reasons. Long relationships require some effort and commitment from both parties regardless of ITR. Hence I don't think that duality is a magic pill that guarantees anything, so dualized people can find their partner dissatisfying, have a wandering eye, want to try something else etc. According to my observations, some people admire their dual and some people overlook, some people like them but as a friend. I personally don't want to limit my relationship with someone due to socionics if it is working in reality.
    Yeah, being on auto-pilot is a dumb move. Boxing one self in might be a mistake, something that person can humbly correct.

    Sometimes one has to ask themselves, "What the fuck am I doing & why am I doing it?". "What are the motivations for my actions, where could these actions lead & will such actions really benefit myself and those around me?".

    But yeah, if anyone has another perspective to contribute feel free

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    Mirage is the automatic instant chillax state. Can you be there? Maybe because the available external resources are not definitely deserted.
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    I’m beginning to think Mirage is the relation where partners stay together for several years without getting married and the woman wants to get married, but then when they split the man marries his next partner within a couple years.

    The woman considers the man “good enough”, because he is attractive, comfortable, and women have been socially influenced to be more willing to settle; but the man recognizes his partner will never fully fit the bill of what he’s looking for, and just stays until something more interesting (someone who has his dual-seeking function in their ego?) comes along.

    I would expand on this to reference Mirage within the description of “educational” relations here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...and-Energetics
    “This type of family is founded with the explicit or implicit goals of resolving internal psychological problems. A person in such union does not so much look for material or career support as emotional support.”

    To me, it makes sense because women as a whole are more inclined to seek and prioritize emotional fulfillment and reciprocity in romance, while men have an innate drive to attain experience and novelty. A generalization, of course.

    This just randomly occurred to me, but I share it because I’ve seen so many situations exactly like the one I described above play out in real life.

    I’ve also seen plenty of Mirage pairs last a lifetime and never lose their passion.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 06-07-2021 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    I’m beginning to think Mirage is the relation where partners stay together for several years without getting married and the woman wants to get married, but then when they split the man marries his next partner within a couple years.

    The woman considers the man “good enough”, because he is attractive, comfortable, and women have been socially influenced to be more willing to settle; but the man recognizes his partner will never fully fit the bill of what he’s looking for, and just stays until something more interesting (someone who has his dual-seeking function in their ego?) comes along.

    I would expand on this to reference Mirage within the description of “educational” relations here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...and-Energetics
    “This type of family is founded with the explicit or implicit goals of resolving internal psychological problems. A person in such union does not so much look for material or career support as emotional support.”

    To me, it makes sense because women as a whole are more inclined to seek and prioritize emotional fulfillment and reciprocity in romance, while men have an innate drive to attain experience and novelty. A generalization, of course.

    This just randomly occurred to me, but I share it because I’ve seen so many situations exactly like the one I described above play out in real life.

    I’ve also seen plenty of Mirage pairs last a lifetime.
    This works for me.

    My first GF was a Mirage, then she got married and is still married. After trying a few randoms, I got married for many years to an SLI.
    Then I got divorced, had a second Mirage GF for four years, and now I’m looking for a Dual for permanence.
    Since I haven’t heard a word from my last Mirage partner for five months, I’m hoping that she found a Dual for herself.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-07-2021 at 02:45 PM.

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    I don't think mirage it bad by any means. I do think it can work depending on the individual. I tend to be attracted to SLE men as well and we tend to get along very well. I think if the person isn't as interested in their dual seeking function or seem to get it in another way, it can 100% workout. My brother is an SLE, a great coworker was an SLE, and I even dated an SLE for a short period of time.

    I love doing activities with SLE's and they are always doing to do something new and fun! Doing anything Se related with them can be really relaxing in the sense that I don't have to worry about it as much. They got it. When my old SLE coworker left, I left very soon afterward. He was one of the few people I looked forward to working with and made the job so much easier and it quickly got worse for me with him not being there. Living life with SLE's are really fun and I always enjoy it.

    I really need Ne though. I really didn't realize it until I dated an ILE to be honest. I felt mentally stimulated for once and felt more chill in Ne related things then when I usually go on a freakout about. Naturally I felt more comfortable with him then the SLE that I dated. However, I really struggled to do Se related things which was difficult. I wanted to go out and explore and he liked his comfort. We explored a little but I wanted to do so much more. Emotionally and mentally it was more easier with the ILE but when it came to the world around us and material abundance, I always feel at ease with an SLE.

    I grew up with family that is majority sensor's so anything sensing related is very familiar. For me personally, I have always searched out intuitive types naturally and majority of my close my friends tend to be initiatives. My mom and dad are both sensors and don't seem to seek out intuitive information at all. That's just my two cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I've also noticed this. Some T types will also seem to seek other T people, but this seems less common than F people seeking F. I'm not sure what to make of it.
    Just my 2 cents, I think F people seeking F is common because they seek a similar level of sensitivity in emotions and emotional depth/fluency in others, and these things are more outwardly apparent in F types.
    For example, some female F friends of mine describe ideal partners with adjectives such as "emotionally sensitive" "artistic" etc in abundance..

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    For example, some female F friends of mine describe ideal partners with adjectives such as "emotionally sensitive" "artistic" etc in abundance..
    And later they bitch about it..?
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Just my 2 cents, I think F people seeking F is common because they seek a similar level of sensitivity in emotions and emotional depth/fluency in others, and these things are more outwardly apparent in F types.
    For example, some female F friends of mine describe ideal partners with adjectives such as "emotionally sensitive" "artistic" etc in abundance..
    It’s me, I’m one of those. On some level, we think that another ethical type is our ideal for the reasons you listed, but we fail to take into account you can’t go at life solely with ethics. Rational types cool off the fire of ethical types, something ethicals can’t do for themselves or for other ethical types. That’s my problem with ESE - we emotionally stimulate one another and neither one of us wants to be logical, so we get stuck in the ethical “on” position and it’s very uncomfortable.

    From what I’ve seen, rational types are the same way - they say they value level-headedness and practicality above all else in a partner, and then once in a relationship with a fellow logical type they find themselves in an emotional desert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    It’s me, I’m one of those. On some level, we think that another ethical type is our ideal for the reasons you listed, but we fail to take into account you can’t go at life solely with ethics. Rational types cool off the fire of ethical types, something ethicals can’t do for themselves or for other ethical types. That’s my problem with ESE - we emotionally stimulate one another and neither one of us wants to be logical, so we get stuck in the ethical “on” position and it’s very uncomfortable.

    From what I’ve seen, rational types are the same way - they say they value level-headedness and practicality above all else in a partner, and then once in a relationship with a fellow logical type they find themselves in an emotional desert.

    Certain folk oughta read what you just wrote.

    Some people are desperate. Maybe I'm wrong but liking someone who's just "nice" is superficial. People should try dating themselves. Take yourself out somewhere, read an article with yourself, watch a flick with yourself Once a person adequately knows themselves, find a compliment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    It’s me, I’m one of those. On some level, we think that another ethical type is our ideal for the reasons you listed, but we fail to take into account you can’t go at life solely with ethics. Rational types cool off the fire of ethical types, something ethicals can’t do for themselves or for other ethical types. That’s my problem with ESE - we emotionally stimulate one another and neither one of us wants to be logical, so we get stuck in the ethical “on” position and it’s very uncomfortable.

    From what I’ve seen, rational types are the same way - they say they value level-headedness and practicality above all else in a partner, and then once in a relationship with a fellow logical type they find themselves in an emotional desert.
    Have you been with any T type before? I’m curious if you could explain what you valued about them. And how does lack of logic manifest itself as a problem?
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Have you been with any T type before? I’m curious if you could explain what you valued about them. And how does lack of logic manifest itself as a problem?
    Yes - but the specific person was arguably unhealthy, so I won’t use that story for reference.

    Both my parents are T types, and most of my close friends have been T types. At least for me, I find them easier to get along with than ethical types. They argue less over frivolous matters, give great advice, and are often solid and loyal in the face of difficult situations. Ethical types are more inclined to follow the call of their emotions to do something they said they wouldn’t, but logical types are less inclined to inconsistent behavior. I can breathe easy with most T types.

    Usually the absence of logic with a pair of ethical types manifests as an inability to calmly deal with matters. Normally, an F brings their ethical concern to the T, who then offers their thoughts and solutions. The F is relieved of ethical stress, and the T feels needed and loved. But in an F-F relationship, both people are constantly bringing concerns to the other without getting any meaningful (to them) feedback, and start to think the other person is deliberately not “using their brain.” This typically results in very emotionally charged arguments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    Yes - but the specific person was arguably unhealthy, so I won’t use that story for reference.

    Both my parents are T types, and most of my close friends have been T types. At least for me, I find them easier to get along with than ethical types. They argue less over frivolous matters, give great advice, and are often solid and loyal in the face of difficult situations. Ethical types are more inclined to follow the call of their emotions to do something they said they wouldn’t, but logical types are less inclined to inconsistent behavior. I can breathe easy with most T types.

    Usually the absence of logic with a pair of ethical types manifests as an inability to calmly deal with matters. Normally, an F brings their ethical concern to the T, who then offers their thoughts and solutions. The F is relieved of ethical stress, and the T feels needed and loved. But in an F-F relationship, both people are constantly bringing concerns to the other without getting any meaningful (to them) feedback, and start to think the other person is deliberately not “using their brain.” This typically results in very emotionally charged arguments.
    My SEI ex would sometimes sit down with me, explain problems, and ask me for advice, but I tended to feel that she didn't think it was useful. I think she felt frustrated that I rarely offered a single solution, but generally tried to explain various options. I don't know if this is typical for LIIs; intuitively it would seem that base T types would be more inclined to present a single "best" option, and T-creatives would be more inclined to present several, so perhaps it indicates I'm mistyped. In any case though, I would say I tend to be cautious when giving advice, and perhaps expressed too much of this caution for her taste; I think she would have preferred someone tell her "just try this!" and relieve her of the stress of making the "wrong" choice rather than than try to talk through all the options, present the pros and cons of each, and leave the final decision up to her. Maybe there has to be more compatibility than just F + T.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    My SEI ex would sometimes sit down with me, explain problems, and ask me for advice, but I tended to feel that she didn't think it was useful. I think she felt frustrated that I rarely offered a single solution, but generally tried to explain various options. I don't know if this is typical for LIIs; intuitively it would seem that base T types would be more inclined to present a single "best" option, and T-creatives would be more inclined to present several, so perhaps it indicates I'm mistyped. In any case though, I would say I tend to be cautious when giving advice, and perhaps expressed too much of this caution for her taste; I think she would have preferred someone tell her "just try this!" and relieve her of the stress of making the "wrong" choice rather than than try to talk through all the options, present the pros and cons of each, and leave the final decision up to her. Maybe there has to be more compatibility than just F + T.
    That's positivism vs. negativism I believe, positivists(like ILE) will be more inclined to be confident enough in solutions they give out to brashly give it out as "the right answer", while a negativist(like LII) will be more conscious of how it could go wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    That's positivism vs. negativism I believe, positivists(like ILE) will be more inclined to be confident enough in solutions they give out to brashly give it out as "the right answer", while a negativist(like LII) will be more conscious of how it could go wrong.
    Yeah, could be. In my case I also think I'm so hesitant because I'm not familiar with other people's value systems or motivations. When I make choices for myself, I'm typically not very worried about them: I easily make decisions, and commit to living with their consequences. Or, at least, I recognize that a certain option is the least bad of my options, so even if I'm concerned about the consequences I almost never regret the choice I made. But with other people I'm not so sure what they're willing to risk or to do, and so I tend to be much more cautious in any suggestions I make to other people than I would be if I were to make the decision myself.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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